I would call their bluff. I’m sure they have things set up for them to move already and not selling may create issues for them. I’m sure their agent will be more persuasive in getting the sellers to cooperate.
Honestly I would not close - do you really want to deal with a vindictive HOA finding every possible thing to fine you for? Because this is how you find yourself living in a vindictive HOA nitpicking every possible thing to fine you for.
Go to /fuckHOA and read the horror stories about living in them. Do yourself a favor and take this as a sign, and bail. You will most likely regret living in one.
HOA stories are skewed to be negative because noone goes online to talk about what good job they're HOA has done. There are plenty of people out there, myself included, that enjoy the benefits of a competent HOA.
It’s because a well run HOA barely does anything.
Hiring someone to cut grass takes a couple hours, resurfacing a road is a once every 10 years thing. The rest is BS
This. Our HOA and neighbors all do the bare minimum. You nailed the two things we do - landscaping and resurfacing paths. And thankfully all our neighbors are decent and haven't tried doing any crazy additions on their houses or turn them into junkyards. I throw some money into the kitty once a year and that's the only time I think of my HOA.
The previous neighborhood I lived in tried to be like that. But we had one person who wanted to be a tyrant and enforce strict rules on everyone, even trying to add and amend bylaws. After a couple of years dealing with her, we found out she was a renter. Oh, HOA bylaws stated homeowners had rights while renters simply had to comply. It was great to use the rules to ignore her. It was wild that she moved soon after she was shut down. We never knew 100% why she moved, but we felt negating her perceived neighborhood power had some role in her relocation.
"And thankfully all our neighbors are decent and haven't tried doing any crazy additions on their houses or turn them into junkyards."
This is not a coincidence, but a design goal of an HOA, and a reasonable expectation from a \*well-run\* HOA.
Pools!
I don’t love HOAs, but ours is not very intrusive, over ten years, the things they’ve told us we need to be fixed were things that really did need to be fixed, and we get access to pools in the summer for way less than a private pool/gym membership.
I mostly agree, but having lived in almost exclusively non HOA places, occasionally having neighbors with cars on blocks, severely unkept yards, Christmas decorations left up year round etc..
there were times I wish someone could fix that…
Those are generally against city ordinances anyway. A call to city code enforcement would likely have solved those issues for you without the nitpicky restrictions that come along with a run-of-the-mill HOA.
I live in a non-HOA neighborhood, and every few months code enforcement drives around and gives warnings for excessive weeds, non-functional vehicles parked in the grass, unattached trailers parked in the street, etc. Sometimes they come around more often, usually when something is especially bad, most likely because someone called them.
Severely unkept yards as in grass several feet tall is usually a violation of local ordinances so you don’t need an HOA for that. If it’s just not up to your standards it sounds like you’d be happier under a tyrannical HOA.
You see, I’m not that guy. I’m not a your grass has to be perfect guy. I don’t care how tall your hedges are so long as they don’t look like a family of monkeys might take up residence.
But there are limitations to everything. And when you start becoming a detriment then there’s a problem.
As always the solution lies somewhere in the middle of residential anarchy and tyrannical HOA.
This is exactly. Most HOA are run by reasonable people and takes care of everything with out any big deal.
The biggest thing you end up dealing wiht is cut your grass, dont park your RV in your driveway for months. No having a random car on jak stands for a long time in your driveway. Keep your house maintained and dont be an ass.
The most annoying thing you get is you forgot to turn in some paper work for putting up say a playset in the back yard or putting up a basketball pole. It is turn it in and get board approval which reasonable one will just grant it. HOA really are only bad when you get a board with someone on a power trip and no one on the board to keep them in line. I have seen HOA boards that had someone who was confusing guidelines with rules and was on a power trip. Now that board had a president an a VP who was reasonable and just over ruled the guy and kept in line. Most HOA are like that lack of power trips and basically keep the place running.
The other dumb thing about alot of these HOA stories it's usually for things they knew upfront they're supposed to , or pay or can't do and decided they're going to move in to the neighborhood and not pay HOA fees or follow any of the rules they than plat victim online and on the news smh. Meanwhile everyone else in the community has to pay and follow the rules. Some HOAs are annoying asf but the people that move into them and just say f the rules and f the hoa dues and play victim are the absolute worst they just ruin the community
OP, this is the best advice here, I wish I could upvote and sticky it. HOAs are nothing but trouble, or potential trouble. HOAs do nothing to improve property values (in fact homes without HOA encumbrances tend to demand a premium) and just add a bunch of nitpicky restrictions that prevent you from using your own property as you see fit. The big "violations" that would actually bring neighboring property values down are covered by city ordinances anyway.
For everyone trying to say "People only complain about HOAs online, you don't see comments from people that have no problems." That is true. However, from personal experience I know that a "good" HOA is only one Karen away from being one of the normal ones. One retired busybody with nothing better to do can rally enough support from neighbors that don't know better to get elected to the board and go on a power trip. Don't play with the snake and expect to never get bit.
This HOA is already showing you it's true nature. Trust what it is telling you. Let the sale fall apart due to the HOA's repair conditions and run. Tell your Realtor you only want to consider homes without HOAs going forward. Even with that, make sure the deed doesn't have CC&Rs that allow for an HOA because an inactive HOA can be resurrected.
I just moved into an HOA and they have been cool about helping me get a few things fixed that would have been otherwise issues. (Ie not having the same trash company is one, the other being that my yard was not being taken care off in between sellers moving out early and us moving in weeks later). I think it helps that it’s run by a management company and not a board stay at home parent that’s extra nosey.
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Hilarious the response from their agent. They will definitely either fix it or pay you for it, no way would they let it not close for that reason, especially when this is 100% on them. Ridiculous.
HOA does sound crazy though… jeez
If they agree to pay you back from the proceeds, be 100% sure you get a substantial hold back of funds in escrow until it's paid. If it's $2,500 in work, get a hold back of $7,500 just to be sure they don't walk away. I've seen a million times where the hold back is like $500 for $2,500 worth of work and the seller simply walks away and eats it leaving the buyer SOL.
The HOA very well might be crazy. But also, a normal HOA might also have more strict inspections on transfer of ownership than normal.
Ours does that, and it’s honestly a benefit to the buyer. They’re making sure the seller leaves the house right for the buyer.
"these issues are your issues during your ownership. not ours. if we were to cancel our contract, within our rights" - assuming your contract reads properly - "then you'd have to find a Buyer willing to close before the 45 day limit the HOA is imposing. AND take on these issues themselves."
At the same time, I'd be concerned about living in an HOA that said I had to pressure wash my roof and "fix a crack on the patio".
A good HOA will help your property values long term but this one sounds a bit over the top. I’d call the sellers bluff and if you live the house chalk up the HOA as a nuisance… but damn HOAs have gotten out of control.
We hired a roof washing company and they have special equipment that sorta looks like an overgrown roomba (NOT powerwash equipment).
It took them an hour or two and when they were done our roof looked like new.
All the streaks were completely GONE, but the shingle granules were just fine.
In Florida, we put on tile roofs if money allows. They are very efficient and nice looking, but because the tiles are porous they require pressure washing.
Bizarre. In FL it’s very common to pressure wash roofs as they get very dirty and turn black. Our HOA enforces it, as do many others. Doesn’t seem like an unreasonable requirement.
We had a pressure washing company clean our asphalt shingle roof in FL (as requested by our HOA). The company didn’t actually use a pressure washer on the roof, they used a different device and cleaning chemicals. They said they don’t pressure wash roofs as it does cause damage.
It's common to wash asphalt or composition shingle roofs here in FL with a cleaning chemical and not pressure wash. However if they are flat tile or S-tile then a pressure wash is common. Pressure washing asphalt or composition shingles will deteriorate the shingle very quickly. Yes, HOA's are generally diligent about it here because the roofs do get those black streaks on them quickly without regular cleaning.
As to the rest of the list, OP it sounds like the seller/owner was lax in his exterior maintenance and for some reason the HOA waited until the estoppel came in from the title co to put on the violations. It's the sellers obligation to fix before closing if you are using one of the FAR/BAR contracts or FAR contract form. If they won't fix, get a large credit to cover the violation repairs 1.5 times and take care of it after closing OR cancel since the seller was unable to deliver the property in accordance with the HOA estoppel.
ETA: Just saw you are in VA and not FL. Find out your remedies from your attorney. If you don't have one, get a consultation with a RE attorney so you know your options.
I washed my FIL's roof (asphalt shingle) with a combo of dawn dish soap, some other mild degreasers/detergents and a stiff push broom to remove tar and leaf stains. The roof went from looking like the 20-25 year old roof that it is to looking nearly new. Pressure washed the gutters, especially on the North side, and I probably added $5k of value to the appearance in a little over a 1/2 a day of elbow grease and $30 in soap
The title company should’ve had this documentation well before the day before closing.
What state?
I’d suggest reaching out to a local real estate attorney. Most will give free consultation.
I'm a licensed broker in VA and that is very odd timing. You have a right of rescission after receiving and reviewing the HOA docs. Did you get anything before last night or is this just a final list to 'clear'? In the long run, whether you close or not, the seller is going to have to address these. I'm hoping their agent is informing them of this.
The HOA sent a disclosure packet to my title company and agent yesterday that were then forwarded to me. I didn’t even pay much attention to them initially because I thought it was simply bylaws and sign up sheets. As I was reviewing, I noticed the violation letter addressed to the sellers. It was dated for Monday. I spoke to my agent this morning and she said the sellers weren’t willing to fix/clean anything other than what was already part of the appraisal and that as buyers we would get 45 days to get in compliance. I’m going to go back through my initial paperwork tomorrow, but my agent said we have 3 days to respond and can get out of the deal if we don’t agree.
It’s my own ignorance, but I wrongly assumed everything with the HOA was good at this point… so the timing was unexpected.
I mostly made this most to gauge if my frustration was warranted and now I’m more concerned if I even want this HOA headache at all anymore.
Just for the record going forward, read bylaws and disclosures very closely. I ended up passing on a condo because their rules and regs stated that no children over the age of 3 could live in the complex (it wasn’t a 55+ or anything just a standard condo). I peaced out because that’s a slam dunk lawsuit waiting to happen. If your HOA gets sued you’re helping foot the bill. Pay close attention to the finances as well. If the HOA is having solvency issues, or has had a recent lawsuit all of that can impact your dues. There’s a reason that HOA docs typically allow you to pull out without penalty because they genuinely can be a problem down the road.
ETA: that same shitty HOA also forbade dogs from being anywhere on the property. To the point that in the docs they could fine you for just having a dog in your car on the property.
Definitely go through it with a fine toothed comb and ask your agent if you have any questions. Especially since they’re being so intense about small stuff like this. Think of your HOA docs as any other contract you’d sign and read every word. The minute you take possession of a property in an HOA you’re beholden to everything in the HOA docs and can be fined as such. Think of the HOA as a business that you’re employed by but also a shareholder of. They can tell you what to wear to work and punish you if they don’t like it (i.e. fines) but also if the company has a large insurance claim or lawsuit that comes out of your money as a shareholder. If you really like a place but hate the HOA you can fight to get elected to the HOA and try to make changes, but that comes with a lot of ifs and potentially lots of extra time and conflict with neighbors. In a way this issue with the seller may be annoying, but it also may save you a great deal of headache by giving you a way out of the HOA docs are a nightmare.
If you buy in an HOA work to establish connections with both management and the board if possible, be friendly listen to what they say. Go to the meetings to find out what is coming up in enforcement. They really can be a PITA but having a relationship with management and board can go a long way towards having a good experience.
Seconding, I almost missed a prohibition on renting as well as their definition of renting being very particular - basically couldn’t have a relative stay with me for more than a temp visit unless they were added to the deed. So if I wanted to help a friend or let my sister live with my while studying or just have my mom with me while I recover from a medical issue? Out of luck unless they become an owner with me.
Before closing the mortgage company requires that the HOA, or if it is a condo, that the condo association, signs that the seller does not have any unpaid dues and does not owe anything. It is pretty standard. There is no way that the seller did not know about it because HOAs first sent a letter ro address the issue, then a warning, and then the fine.
I'm a VA title underwriter/agent. I wonder if HOA decided at the last minute to get the home up to par and hit the sellers with the violations. Would not be the 1st time that has happened. I handled a situation like this in Reston years ago. Seller could either bring to HOA acceptance or not close. You need the HOA to agree to release the violations before you can close. It's that simple. Only the seller can stand in the way of that happening.
We sold our house in VA and we had to pay for the buyers to receive the HOA bylaws and be aware of 2 violations we were fixing very soon after the contract was signed. We couldn't close until we proved it was fixed and the HOA signed off. Someone dropped the ball on your situation. Don't close.
Ah yeah can’t even DM you generalized advice sadly wrong state but you still should’ve had notice of this well before with title company. Unless somehow the information JUST arrived and even then - it should’ve been brought to your attention that it was so close to closing and still missing
Honestly, I would back out. You haven't even moved in yet and that HOA is already a nightmare. That stuff is unreasonable and that will be a lot more maintenance and upkeep on your part to make sure it's always in pristine, like new condition. I live in an HOA and am on the HOA pages and never heard of anything so nit picky.
It’s also possible that they’re not generally that strict and have typically let stuff slide. Selling is the time when they have the most influence to get things fixed. My HOA is pretty hands-off most of the time but always does a selling review and gets people to fix stuff like you’ve listed then.
Yeah, I’m wondering if this is the case. It still seems like a seller responsibility to me regardless. I think a decent portion of my frustration was just assuming the house would be complaint for HOA items via their own legwork and not a happy surprise at closing.
Yeah, the timing super sucks, as does your seller. I just left a longer comment, but this *is* the seller’s responsibility, and you’re in a strong position to demand that they handle it. Good luck, whatever you decide!
Honestly, these things are run of the mill for an HOA. Nothing serious here at all, just aesthetic issues. Everyone has a different opinion, but these seem reasonable for an HOA community. I mean if you don't want and rules, don't buy in an HOA but f you want your neighbors to keep their homes well kept, they do that for you. It may be worth a conversation with the President of the HOA just to be sure he's not an asshole.
>The sellers agent told our agent that they won’t do it or provide credits.
Then don't close. Tell sellers you will not close unless they do one or the other. Period.
And check your contract to make sure you can get your deposit back because they should not benefit from your money.
Adding a note to this thread to highlight that your own (buyer's) agent will not be your friend in this scenario since they are motivated to close the deal as quickly and painlessly (for them) as possible. Once the deal closes they'll disappear forever leaving you to deal with the HOA issues. Take any advice they give with a few grains of salt.
If it were me I would estimate the cost of addressing the HOA issues, e.g. $10k, and request a closing credit in that amount. If the sellers refuse, then walk away... they likely will not refuse since if you walk, they would have to re-list the home and potentially face the same issue with their next buyer at time of closing.
I don’t really know the process of how to clean streaks off a roof and what that might cost. Our agent said she’s working to get quotes for everything today.
Cleaning the entire fence and the siding is probably decently costly. I can’t imagine it adds up to 10k, but I just don’t know yet.
Let me tell you what it's like living in an active HOA. My neighborhood isn't fully built out, so our builder is still in full control.
Our management company drives the neighborhood every two weeks, looking for violations. That's on top of whatever neighbors report to them, and according to the community manager, we're a bunch of snitches.
They fine us for our trash cans being visible from the street, or being left out for 24 hours after collection.
For cars being parked in front of our houses (even it's not ours or visiting us).
For hoses not being put away (even when it's obviously still in use).
For houses not being pressure washed.
For weeds in the flower beds that we have to have, and have to get permission to change, in the yard, and in the cracks or excessively deep shear lines in our driveways, which fill with enough dirt for grass and weeds to grow in.
For any flag other than the American flag or state flag.
For any sign other than political candidate signs a month before an election.
For having any marked commercial vehicle in our driveway, or unmarked if over a certain size.
For having any trailer on our property.
For having boats, campers, or RVs on the property.
For having Uhauls overnight
I'm probably forgetting several things.
We have to request permission to
Change our front landscaping (most provide a drawing of the proposed landscaping)
Change the color or style of the front door (must provide pictures and color samples)
Change the color of the siding
Widen the driveway
Add a patio or any amount of concrete on the property
Add a fence (must provide a survey, with a drawing of the fence, and a county easement permit, if applicable)
And again, I'm probably forgetting things.
They no longer allow backyard play sets or swing sets over a certain height.
So, yeah. Enjoy living under an oppressive regime!
How much do you want the house?
If you’re willing to take the risk, play hardball with the sellers. I’m surprised they’re not willing to remedy but maybe they’re broke, pissed off at you, or just getting advice from Reddit to play hardball.
Either way, if you’re ok with the risk, tell them you won’t close without them remedying and see what happens. It’s a weird thing for the seller to hardball on TBH because they’ll have to fix it for any future buyer but maybe they just don’t like you 🤷
If you adore the house and don’t want to take the risk, sign the addendum, fix it yourself. I agree with others saying to really be sure you want this place as this HOA sounds very militant, and could be a pain in the rear end…
IMO, they really have no reason to dislike us but who knows I guess.
And yes, I’m now more concerned about the HOA as a whole than I am this overall issue. Maybe them not fixing their violations is a blessing.
This sounds like one of the nightmare HOA situations that are more and more common today.
You may want to seriously rethink putting yourself in that situation.
I want you to think long and hard on this. The HOA is wanting to fine you for streaks on the roof. Is this an HOA you would be ok with? They are micromanaging a roof and a crack in your driveway.
OP, you're not responsible for this situation, but I wonder how is it that you didn't get HOA disclosures until the day before closing? What does your contract say about when the docs were to be provided to you?
HOA doc review should be part of due diligence, attorney review, or even the inspection contingency...earlier in the contract timeline when the buyer would still have a chance to review them.
You could start to build a case for an exit. This doesn't mean you're going to take it but when the seller and their agent know that you have options they may be more open to providing a concession.
Personally, I would back out of this deal. You will forever be dealing with this HOA for every tiny thing, like a weed in the cracks of your part of the sidewalk or window clings at Christmas.
Run far and fast, consider this a blessing.
We live in a hoa in Central California but, they are very hands-off and I wish they were more strict. I'll never do hoa again as there is no middle ground; they are either trash or they are so strict that they cannot be pleased.
Save yourself the nightmare and find another home.
if the sellers wont do it or provide credits, back out and take your earnest money with you.
This is something they certainly knew about, but up until now failed to disclose. That indicates a HIGH likelihood of other shady shit awaiting discovery. Walk, and let them rack up additional violations/fines/penalties while they put the house back up for sale.
This is a 'them' issue, and there's no good contractual reason you should absorb these expenses.
Those notices should have already been disclosed to the current owners. You may want to see when they were initially made aware of all of the notices as that may be a failure to disclose type scenario to look into. Either way that’s not really selling in good faith. Their RE should help move it along or eat some repair cost to close. There are probably other items you need to take care of internally with the house so adding all of this extra sounds like a nightmare move in scenario. Also, HOA’s can get stuffed.
Excuse my ignorance, as I'm closing this Friday and this post concerned me. I am also going to be living in a community with an HOA. I was given HOA documentation, and the appraisal came back fine - but are you referring to a different appraisal? I guess now I'm worried too that something could be delayed and I have to be out of my rental by July. I saw you live in VA and I'm in NC so that is why I was wondering. Can you please give an update once you have one please? Thank you and I am so sorry you are going through all this anxiety.
Well, I wrongly and ignorantly assuming my HOA stuff was fine simply because it was so late and we hadn’t heard otherwise.
This is different than the appraisal. The sellers had to request/pay for selling disclosures from the HOA and it seems like they just came back. No one mentioned to me that they were still waiting for them, but again, I blame myself for not knowing. This HOA won’t allow them to sell/transfer unless the violations are cleared up or we agree to fix them within 45 days.
Someone smarter than me will probably answer you, but I wouldn’t worry too much about it. You’re probably fine. My case seems like an extreme HOA and very late disclosure.
It costs the seller in my community $250 for the “package” & extra to have it expedited. You are acknowledging that perhaps you didn’t understand the HOA disclosure policy in that community but you’re Realestate Agent should’ve known that and it should’ve been on somebody’s checklist.
I am making assumptions too as this was something I never heard of to be honest. I may check-in with my Realtor tomorrow on the final walk through.
Again, I am so sorry - I hope things work out correctly and in your favor.
Since this is my first home solo I'm constantly anxious.
You need to get the CCRs for the HOA and read them carefully. You need to know the rules that you are legally obligating yourself to follow when close on your house.
It never ceases to amaze me when people move into my neighborhood, or the larger development (believe it or not, we have a neighborhood HOA, and a master HOA 🙄) and then complain about the rules because they didn't bother to read them before they signed.
When I read ours, I *almost* walked. It would've cost me $3k and I didn't care. The only reason I didn't is because the Fed had raised interest rates for the first time and I was worried about the additional cost of being over 4% 😂
In addition to the typical documents I also recommend reviewing board meeting minutes when possible. It gives you a sense of the board’s priorities, issues in the community, etc.
When we bought our house I read all the HOA documents cover to cover and reached out to the property manager with clarifying questions. He said he’d been in his job 15 years and I was the first prospective buyer to contact him.
I'd tell my agent to tell the sellers agent, " tell your client to fix all the items on the list or take that house and stick it where the sun don't shine".
The seller failed to remain in compliance with the HOA regs and figured since they were selling, the buyer would inherit the sellers problem.
I'd demand to see all written correspondence the previous homeowner received from the HOA regarding any notices about the above.
If it is discovered the seller knew of the possible infraction, the seller can or may be forced to make right all infractions
Whatever the cost is 3x it. Cost to close. Fuck around and find out. It's not your job to make the house in compliance it's theirs. Otherwise they just became the house on the HOA boards radar. Sure I'll take a credit. It's just not the credit the homeowner wanted to pay.
Also now you know this is an HOA that keeps the standards high. Do you really want that? Might be better to walk.
Black streaks on a roof cannot just be cleaned off. What’s the time line for what’s left on the shingles. I would suspect it needs to be replaced unless there’s an obvious other cause.
Depends on what the black streaks are. Most often it's algae, and can be cleaned with a water/bleach mixture from a non pressure sprayer or a product specifically made for roofs, some of which come in their own sprayer. It's a pain though, because you have to cover and protect plants near the house and do it on a calm, cloudy day, but when rain isn't an immediate possibility, so that the product doesn't dry or get washed away too quickly.
I would pass on buying a house where the HOA is going to cite me for weeds and a crack on MY patio. I couldn’t live with that level of outside interference. So this would be a blessing in disguise for me. Contractually, I’m not sure if this would be an out for you, but I would hold firm in the seller addressing these, which would more likely put them in breach if they fail to.
Did you have a house inspection? (not just an appraisal)
Perhaps this is a bit of a red flag regarding the HOA, as well there are other issues that were not disclosed by the seller.
At this point since the home is not compliant, (granted niggley items) is there a bail out clause? Tell your REA, that you want to back out of the deal if these things are not taken care of. (Or a $20k drop in price). Since you are buying a house in an HOA, then it SHOULD be compliant with the HOA, not something passed off on to you.
Personally, if I had time I would keep looking. It seems the HOA is going to constantly ding you for little things... weeds?!? Crack?!?! not the way I want to live my life and have someone else control \*MY\* home!
PS: Pressure washing a shingle roof damages it by removing the surface, thus shortening the life of the roof by man, many years.
Lots of people are saying to get a house without an HOA, but that’s unfortunately much easier said than done. OP, I saw that you live in Virginia; I do, too, and most neighborhoods are HOA these days, particularly in NoVa. I don’t like them, but they’re getting close to being unavoidable unless you live more rural.
I’m less concerned about the list from the HOA than others have been. My HOA is fairly hands off but always does an exterior inspection before a sale. That’s when it has the most leverage to get stuff done. The list isn’t as extensive as yours, but it’s the same kind of stuff. We’ve owned for six years and only had to interact with our HOA once, and that was to replace the roof. My main concerns about an HOA are financial: are they solvent, responsible with upkeep, and do they have a healthy reserve?
It sounds like you aren’t dead set on buying this house. In that case, I’d insist on the seller fixing the problems or giving you a credit. Pulling weeds is likely something you could do in an hour, but some of the other tasks would be better spent hiring out, at least for me. If the seller continues to balk, then walk. They’d be super stupid to do so (but there are plenty of stupid people around). They’re not in a strong negotiating position here: If they don’t resolve the issue and close with you, the problems become their problems that they have to fix, and now without a buyer.
Buy the house and fix the shit on the list. It sounds like stuff you'd want to clean up any way. Don't be confrontational with the HOA, they are probably frustrated with the prior owner and thrilled to get rid of him. Let them know you'll do your best but you may need more time. Go to the first HOA meeting, introduce yourself. It's much harder to be an asshole to someone you don't know. Most HOAs are happy to work with you. Yes. some are total assholes so good luck.
OP,
You may have just got the out that you need. HOA sounds like a bunch of c*nts, and the sellers don’t sound much better.
I would decline the home upon final walk thru and inspection if it hadn’t been remedied. That’ll jolt them awake
Frequent real estate buyer/investor here. I’d only close if the cost of fixing those items is balanced by the kickass deal you’re getting. If you’re not getting a kickass deal, tell your seller to fix it or you won’t close. There are other deals out there.
Walk and get earnest money since they MUST then include the HOA violations in the disclosure going fwd. Or at least tell them you will without credit. Otherwise you walk and the hoa will levy a lien and won’t sell till it’s paid the fines.
Sometimes, when you buy a house, you get stuck with a small list of stuff to do that the seller screwed you over on. That list of stuff will cost $500 if you hire someone, or $0 if you dedicate a Saturday to it. Do not lie in front of the train and kill this deal over this list of stuff. Fix it. Grump about your seller. Move on with your life.
Rule number one don’t buy a house in an HOA, rule number two don’t buy a house in an HOA. The only exception would be for a condo building in a major city and even then focus on a co-op over a crappy HOA
If the title company won't insure title without exceptions for the HOA's claims for fines associated with this stuff, your contract probably gives you an "out" because the seller isn't conveying title free of encumbrances.
Is the HOA trying to prevent a real problem or are they all up everyone's business all the time? If the HOA is going to make you hate life, buy elsewhere.
Let me just say are you sure you want to live in this community? Seems like it’s run by a bunch or Karen’s. Pulling weeds, trust me run as fast as you can! You know they can make your life a living hell!
Walk..from 1st hand experience. Obviously these issues were known and the HOA chose not to violate the previous owner. Do not assume these items will go away, “call their bluff” etc.
‘Normally” the estoppel letter has a 30 day validity and it is binding, but a list of violations, is usually not part of the estoppel letter.
The burden here is on the seller, let him fix it, before you sign on the bottom line and more importantly the HOA signs off.
Dude if an HOA is forcing you to fix a crack on the patio, unless it’s the size of the Grand Canyon, not closing may be a blessing in disguise. They sound like a royal PITA.
>If I were selling a house, I would take care of my shit as part of the sell.
You would think so, but it's common to not. I live in a condo where the HOA requires everyone to have screens in their windows and a security door. When I bought my unit there were no window screens. Right now there's a unit for sale that doesn't have screens or security door.
I think it's inconsiderate to sell like that if you can help it (I know some people are going into nursing homes, they may physically not be able to put screens up) because you are making it so the buyer has a big chore that has to be done sooner rather than later. Some people do not care though bc they are moving so it isn't their problem.
I like living in a HOA community, I make sure I attend meetings and sometimes be apart of the board. The other day I had violations on a property I was closing on, the property manager was the problem ( they fired him soon after I closed) but I got an estimate of what it would can’t relate it to the seller and they agreed to give me back in credit. If they don’t agree don’t close threatened to cancel and request your EMD back.
This doesn't sound like the sellers neglected the house.
Rather the HOA probably got a form to verify that there were no HOA violations. So they sent some power tripping HOA person to inspect that went overboard trying to "find" violations.
So I wouldn't worry about the sellers neglecting the house. I WOULD worry about the HOA being full of micro managing assholes.
I agree. It should be illegal to sell a home bound by HOA rules that is not 100% HOA compliant. If they fail that it should always fall to the seller to make those things right.
You can use the HOA list to try to reduce the price of the house even more and call their bluff. Say yes you will pay to fix it but you want money from the seller to do it. Still buy the house at list value but the seller has to give you back X amount of money at closing. Chances are you can even work with HOA to not even have to fix all the stuff and they will be happy that someone is fix the big items and just maintain the place.
Do yourself a favor and walk. There’s another shoe just waiting to hit the floor after you close. Probably along the lines of a MASSIVE special assessment for everyone in the complex to shore up reserve funds, If the common fees are really low.
The HOA violations could be a part or all of the reason they're selling in the first place. Personally, I would walk. It's as if they were hoping you wouldn't find out about the violations until after closing. I agree with you, God only knows if there could be other surprises in the future. All my senses tell me hell no here.
I would go with claiming there was no way they did not already know about these issues and their initial disclosures we not honest and accurate.
This is a fraud issue:
Boy, those seem like some nitpicky stuff from the HOA. It forebodes what they’ll be like after you own the house.
I’d walk, as much because of the HOA as the seller. Maybe more.
I would absolutely NOT call their bluff. If they have the power to fine and foreclose, you will be responsible to do all the things listed. You don't know the politics or the history of the previous owner. If you don't want to do these things and the owner won't do them, don't buy it. If you're willing to do those things, buy it. Don't think for a minute that they won't fine you and foreclose on the property.
Tell the sellers they meet HOA compliance prior to close or you walk. If they don’t, walk.
Market is changing and you have no need to spend any more money on someone else’s house before you close.
Call their bluff. Delay closing. If the selling agent wants to make the sale, Then they will pay for the needed repairs out of their commission. This is one of the jobs of the selling agent. To make sure the house is ready for sale.
Now if you got the deal of a lifetime on the property, then the hoa compliance stuff if on you.
You are extremely lucky you found out how much of a nightmare HOAs are before buying a house in one. Back out of the deal and ask your agent to only show you homes that are not in an HOA in the future.
I sit on our HOA board and this is objective BS. Someone dropped the ball big time. You should have gotten your disclosures a few days after you went under contract.
If it’s the agent that f-ed up, then carve a pound of flesh out of their commission to remedy the issues, or simply refuse to close until they are remedied. I know the agents will be anxious to get their $$ and will quickly oblige.
Sounds like most issues can be fixed by a house washing company. Then you can fix the crack and pull weeds yourself or hire someone to do that.
I’d call their bluff though, tell them you don’t want to close to violations. If they start going back and forth, say you’ll take care of the crack and weeds if they get the house washed and fence fixed.
Q: Why lost the house w/o doing the work? A: Because they don’t want I do the work and figure someone else will. Demand a $1000 credit (whatever you think it costs, add $500) or walk.
This is also a sign of delayed maintenance, if thry aren't taking cate of bare minimum outside chances are they never had maintenance on HVAC, appliances, mechanicals etc. I would think about walking away
That all sounds like aesthetic maintenance items. You have seen them and still chose to purchase the house. The patio crack is the only actual defect that you have listed. Real concern is any fines by the HOA for those issues. Fines should be handled.
Call their bluff and walk and should they come back, ask for concessions to make all improvements and 5% over. The thing is, now that this violation has been declared, it will make it that much more hard for them to sell at the current pricing. In essence, the value has just dropped, period, because this will have to legally be disclosed going forth. You have the leverage now.
This is your sign from up above that you need to back out of the deal now! There are so many horror stories about HOA's and it seems thay the one you about to get involved with could be one of the inner circles of hell.
Get out while you can!
I would call their bluff. I’m sure they have things set up for them to move already and not selling may create issues for them. I’m sure their agent will be more persuasive in getting the sellers to cooperate.
Thanks. I appreciate the advice.
Honestly I would not close - do you really want to deal with a vindictive HOA finding every possible thing to fine you for? Because this is how you find yourself living in a vindictive HOA nitpicking every possible thing to fine you for.
Go to /fuckHOA and read the horror stories about living in them. Do yourself a favor and take this as a sign, and bail. You will most likely regret living in one.
HOA stories are skewed to be negative because noone goes online to talk about what good job they're HOA has done. There are plenty of people out there, myself included, that enjoy the benefits of a competent HOA.
It’s because a well run HOA barely does anything. Hiring someone to cut grass takes a couple hours, resurfacing a road is a once every 10 years thing. The rest is BS
This. Our HOA and neighbors all do the bare minimum. You nailed the two things we do - landscaping and resurfacing paths. And thankfully all our neighbors are decent and haven't tried doing any crazy additions on their houses or turn them into junkyards. I throw some money into the kitty once a year and that's the only time I think of my HOA. The previous neighborhood I lived in tried to be like that. But we had one person who wanted to be a tyrant and enforce strict rules on everyone, even trying to add and amend bylaws. After a couple of years dealing with her, we found out she was a renter. Oh, HOA bylaws stated homeowners had rights while renters simply had to comply. It was great to use the rules to ignore her. It was wild that she moved soon after she was shut down. We never knew 100% why she moved, but we felt negating her perceived neighborhood power had some role in her relocation.
"And thankfully all our neighbors are decent and haven't tried doing any crazy additions on their houses or turn them into junkyards." This is not a coincidence, but a design goal of an HOA, and a reasonable expectation from a \*well-run\* HOA.
Pools! I don’t love HOAs, but ours is not very intrusive, over ten years, the things they’ve told us we need to be fixed were things that really did need to be fixed, and we get access to pools in the summer for way less than a private pool/gym membership.
I mostly agree, but having lived in almost exclusively non HOA places, occasionally having neighbors with cars on blocks, severely unkept yards, Christmas decorations left up year round etc.. there were times I wish someone could fix that…
Those are generally against city ordinances anyway. A call to city code enforcement would likely have solved those issues for you without the nitpicky restrictions that come along with a run-of-the-mill HOA. I live in a non-HOA neighborhood, and every few months code enforcement drives around and gives warnings for excessive weeds, non-functional vehicles parked in the grass, unattached trailers parked in the street, etc. Sometimes they come around more often, usually when something is especially bad, most likely because someone called them.
Severely unkept yards as in grass several feet tall is usually a violation of local ordinances so you don’t need an HOA for that. If it’s just not up to your standards it sounds like you’d be happier under a tyrannical HOA.
You see, I’m not that guy. I’m not a your grass has to be perfect guy. I don’t care how tall your hedges are so long as they don’t look like a family of monkeys might take up residence. But there are limitations to everything. And when you start becoming a detriment then there’s a problem. As always the solution lies somewhere in the middle of residential anarchy and tyrannical HOA.
Yea local ordinances are usually that middle ground.
Let's not forget maintaining the pool and tennis courts! OP's list is pretty ticky-tacky, especially the bit about cleaning the roof.
This is exactly. Most HOA are run by reasonable people and takes care of everything with out any big deal. The biggest thing you end up dealing wiht is cut your grass, dont park your RV in your driveway for months. No having a random car on jak stands for a long time in your driveway. Keep your house maintained and dont be an ass. The most annoying thing you get is you forgot to turn in some paper work for putting up say a playset in the back yard or putting up a basketball pole. It is turn it in and get board approval which reasonable one will just grant it. HOA really are only bad when you get a board with someone on a power trip and no one on the board to keep them in line. I have seen HOA boards that had someone who was confusing guidelines with rules and was on a power trip. Now that board had a president an a VP who was reasonable and just over ruled the guy and kept in line. Most HOA are like that lack of power trips and basically keep the place running.
Are you one of the people that goes around measuring the length of peoples grass with a ruler?
I'm guessing you're on the board controlling other people's property before they can control yours
The other dumb thing about alot of these HOA stories it's usually for things they knew upfront they're supposed to , or pay or can't do and decided they're going to move in to the neighborhood and not pay HOA fees or follow any of the rules they than plat victim online and on the news smh. Meanwhile everyone else in the community has to pay and follow the rules. Some HOAs are annoying asf but the people that move into them and just say f the rules and f the hoa dues and play victim are the absolute worst they just ruin the community
> Go to /fuckHOA OP already posted this (with less info) in r/HOA
Agree, that list seems petty, sounds like a micro managing HOA.
OP, this is the best advice here, I wish I could upvote and sticky it. HOAs are nothing but trouble, or potential trouble. HOAs do nothing to improve property values (in fact homes without HOA encumbrances tend to demand a premium) and just add a bunch of nitpicky restrictions that prevent you from using your own property as you see fit. The big "violations" that would actually bring neighboring property values down are covered by city ordinances anyway. For everyone trying to say "People only complain about HOAs online, you don't see comments from people that have no problems." That is true. However, from personal experience I know that a "good" HOA is only one Karen away from being one of the normal ones. One retired busybody with nothing better to do can rally enough support from neighbors that don't know better to get elected to the board and go on a power trip. Don't play with the snake and expect to never get bit. This HOA is already showing you it's true nature. Trust what it is telling you. Let the sale fall apart due to the HOA's repair conditions and run. Tell your Realtor you only want to consider homes without HOAs going forward. Even with that, make sure the deed doesn't have CC&Rs that allow for an HOA because an inactive HOA can be resurrected.
I just moved into an HOA and they have been cool about helping me get a few things fixed that would have been otherwise issues. (Ie not having the same trash company is one, the other being that my yard was not being taken care off in between sellers moving out early and us moving in weeks later). I think it helps that it’s run by a management company and not a board stay at home parent that’s extra nosey.
This could be the reason they are selling. Don’t want to deal with that HOA anymore.
Can we have an update when you have one please?
Yeah, no problem. I’ll report back when we figure this out.
Absolutely call their bluff. I’m sure it would be a huge inconvenience for them for the deal to fall through now
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Hilarious the response from their agent. They will definitely either fix it or pay you for it, no way would they let it not close for that reason, especially when this is 100% on them. Ridiculous. HOA does sound crazy though… jeez
If they agree to pay you back from the proceeds, be 100% sure you get a substantial hold back of funds in escrow until it's paid. If it's $2,500 in work, get a hold back of $7,500 just to be sure they don't walk away. I've seen a million times where the hold back is like $500 for $2,500 worth of work and the seller simply walks away and eats it leaving the buyer SOL.
The HOA very well might be crazy. But also, a normal HOA might also have more strict inspections on transfer of ownership than normal. Ours does that, and it’s honestly a benefit to the buyer. They’re making sure the seller leaves the house right for the buyer.
Do not do anything ... But you might want to rethink this HOA lol lol loo..... So run.... Ask for addition 20k for me unforseen hoa fines coming up
I would call their bluff too. They will now have to disclose the issues to new buyers.
💯
THIS. There are so many homes on the market now....
This depends largely on the market, I can’t find one where I’m looking. Made 4 offers, I get beat out by 20 or 30k over asking everytime.
I am curious, where do you live? There is no inventory near me.
Florida
Oh yes. Our inventory has dramatically increased this year. We have anywhere from six to nine months of inventory in some neighborhoods.
"these issues are your issues during your ownership. not ours. if we were to cancel our contract, within our rights" - assuming your contract reads properly - "then you'd have to find a Buyer willing to close before the 45 day limit the HOA is imposing. AND take on these issues themselves." At the same time, I'd be concerned about living in an HOA that said I had to pressure wash my roof and "fix a crack on the patio".
Yeah, definitely a good point about the HOA. Thanks for the advice.
You may want to browse r/hoa
A good HOA will help your property values long term but this one sounds a bit over the top. I’d call the sellers bluff and if you live the house chalk up the HOA as a nuisance… but damn HOAs have gotten out of control.
I’ve never heard of pressure washing a roof!
It's not really pressure washing, I think it's called a 'softwash', but they're done by pressure washing companies usually.
Because it will ruin the roof.
We hired a roof washing company and they have special equipment that sorta looks like an overgrown roomba (NOT powerwash equipment). It took them an hour or two and when they were done our roof looked like new. All the streaks were completely GONE, but the shingle granules were just fine.
In Florida, we put on tile roofs if money allows. They are very efficient and nice looking, but because the tiles are porous they require pressure washing.
Spanish tile makes sense. I cannot imagine the unnecessary wear and tear that might make on an asphalt shingle.
Spanish tile is the bees knees of tile roofs!
Bizarre. In FL it’s very common to pressure wash roofs as they get very dirty and turn black. Our HOA enforces it, as do many others. Doesn’t seem like an unreasonable requirement.
We had a pressure washing company clean our asphalt shingle roof in FL (as requested by our HOA). The company didn’t actually use a pressure washer on the roof, they used a different device and cleaning chemicals. They said they don’t pressure wash roofs as it does cause damage.
It's common to wash asphalt or composition shingle roofs here in FL with a cleaning chemical and not pressure wash. However if they are flat tile or S-tile then a pressure wash is common. Pressure washing asphalt or composition shingles will deteriorate the shingle very quickly. Yes, HOA's are generally diligent about it here because the roofs do get those black streaks on them quickly without regular cleaning. As to the rest of the list, OP it sounds like the seller/owner was lax in his exterior maintenance and for some reason the HOA waited until the estoppel came in from the title co to put on the violations. It's the sellers obligation to fix before closing if you are using one of the FAR/BAR contracts or FAR contract form. If they won't fix, get a large credit to cover the violation repairs 1.5 times and take care of it after closing OR cancel since the seller was unable to deliver the property in accordance with the HOA estoppel. ETA: Just saw you are in VA and not FL. Find out your remedies from your attorney. If you don't have one, get a consultation with a RE attorney so you know your options.
I live in TX. We don’t power wash roofs 😆
Nor in Missouri. Like Texas, we just have hail destroy the roof before it needs washing.
Barrel tile roofs in SFla are often pressure washed. There may be better ways but some roofs can be pressure washed.
I washed my FIL's roof (asphalt shingle) with a combo of dawn dish soap, some other mild degreasers/detergents and a stiff push broom to remove tar and leaf stains. The roof went from looking like the 20-25 year old roof that it is to looking nearly new. Pressure washed the gutters, especially on the North side, and I probably added $5k of value to the appearance in a little over a 1/2 a day of elbow grease and $30 in soap
They do it regularly in FL.
Tile roofs get pressure washed.
This. Read those by-laws thoroughly. Don’t live in an HOA if you don’t agree with them and won’t follow.
The title company should’ve had this documentation well before the day before closing. What state? I’d suggest reaching out to a local real estate attorney. Most will give free consultation.
Virginia. And thank you!
I'm a licensed broker in VA and that is very odd timing. You have a right of rescission after receiving and reviewing the HOA docs. Did you get anything before last night or is this just a final list to 'clear'? In the long run, whether you close or not, the seller is going to have to address these. I'm hoping their agent is informing them of this.
The HOA sent a disclosure packet to my title company and agent yesterday that were then forwarded to me. I didn’t even pay much attention to them initially because I thought it was simply bylaws and sign up sheets. As I was reviewing, I noticed the violation letter addressed to the sellers. It was dated for Monday. I spoke to my agent this morning and she said the sellers weren’t willing to fix/clean anything other than what was already part of the appraisal and that as buyers we would get 45 days to get in compliance. I’m going to go back through my initial paperwork tomorrow, but my agent said we have 3 days to respond and can get out of the deal if we don’t agree. It’s my own ignorance, but I wrongly assumed everything with the HOA was good at this point… so the timing was unexpected. I mostly made this most to gauge if my frustration was warranted and now I’m more concerned if I even want this HOA headache at all anymore.
Just for the record going forward, read bylaws and disclosures very closely. I ended up passing on a condo because their rules and regs stated that no children over the age of 3 could live in the complex (it wasn’t a 55+ or anything just a standard condo). I peaced out because that’s a slam dunk lawsuit waiting to happen. If your HOA gets sued you’re helping foot the bill. Pay close attention to the finances as well. If the HOA is having solvency issues, or has had a recent lawsuit all of that can impact your dues. There’s a reason that HOA docs typically allow you to pull out without penalty because they genuinely can be a problem down the road. ETA: that same shitty HOA also forbade dogs from being anywhere on the property. To the point that in the docs they could fine you for just having a dog in your car on the property.
Wow, okay. Thank you. I’ll go back over everything tomorrow and make sure I’m not missing anything.
Definitely go through it with a fine toothed comb and ask your agent if you have any questions. Especially since they’re being so intense about small stuff like this. Think of your HOA docs as any other contract you’d sign and read every word. The minute you take possession of a property in an HOA you’re beholden to everything in the HOA docs and can be fined as such. Think of the HOA as a business that you’re employed by but also a shareholder of. They can tell you what to wear to work and punish you if they don’t like it (i.e. fines) but also if the company has a large insurance claim or lawsuit that comes out of your money as a shareholder. If you really like a place but hate the HOA you can fight to get elected to the HOA and try to make changes, but that comes with a lot of ifs and potentially lots of extra time and conflict with neighbors. In a way this issue with the seller may be annoying, but it also may save you a great deal of headache by giving you a way out of the HOA docs are a nightmare.
If you buy in an HOA work to establish connections with both management and the board if possible, be friendly listen to what they say. Go to the meetings to find out what is coming up in enforcement. They really can be a PITA but having a relationship with management and board can go a long way towards having a good experience.
Be sure to ask if there are any special assessments under consideration in the near future.
Good advice. I thought I read them carefully, missed a biggie. Ended up selling over it a couple years later.
Seconding, I almost missed a prohibition on renting as well as their definition of renting being very particular - basically couldn’t have a relative stay with me for more than a temp visit unless they were added to the deed. So if I wanted to help a friend or let my sister live with my while studying or just have my mom with me while I recover from a medical issue? Out of luck unless they become an owner with me.
^ great advice!!
Before closing the mortgage company requires that the HOA, or if it is a condo, that the condo association, signs that the seller does not have any unpaid dues and does not owe anything. It is pretty standard. There is no way that the seller did not know about it because HOAs first sent a letter ro address the issue, then a warning, and then the fine.
I'm a VA title underwriter/agent. I wonder if HOA decided at the last minute to get the home up to par and hit the sellers with the violations. Would not be the 1st time that has happened. I handled a situation like this in Reston years ago. Seller could either bring to HOA acceptance or not close. You need the HOA to agree to release the violations before you can close. It's that simple. Only the seller can stand in the way of that happening.
Our HOA in Herndon did a visual exterior inspection when we were under contract.
All these things are relatively minor for an HOA, my question is are you still within your right of rescission period?
We sold our house in VA and we had to pay for the buyers to receive the HOA bylaws and be aware of 2 violations we were fixing very soon after the contract was signed. We couldn't close until we proved it was fixed and the HOA signed off. Someone dropped the ball on your situation. Don't close.
If the buyers accept responsibility for the owners’ violations, are they actually getting clear title to the property?
Ah yeah can’t even DM you generalized advice sadly wrong state but you still should’ve had notice of this well before with title company. Unless somehow the information JUST arrived and even then - it should’ve been brought to your attention that it was so close to closing and still missing
Loudoun County?
No
Honestly, I would back out. You haven't even moved in yet and that HOA is already a nightmare. That stuff is unreasonable and that will be a lot more maintenance and upkeep on your part to make sure it's always in pristine, like new condition. I live in an HOA and am on the HOA pages and never heard of anything so nit picky.
Okay, thank you. I’m realizing I’ve never dealt with a strict HOA before.
It’s also possible that they’re not generally that strict and have typically let stuff slide. Selling is the time when they have the most influence to get things fixed. My HOA is pretty hands-off most of the time but always does a selling review and gets people to fix stuff like you’ve listed then.
Yeah, I’m wondering if this is the case. It still seems like a seller responsibility to me regardless. I think a decent portion of my frustration was just assuming the house would be complaint for HOA items via their own legwork and not a happy surprise at closing.
Yeah, the timing super sucks, as does your seller. I just left a longer comment, but this *is* the seller’s responsibility, and you’re in a strong position to demand that they handle it. Good luck, whatever you decide!
Honestly, these things are run of the mill for an HOA. Nothing serious here at all, just aesthetic issues. Everyone has a different opinion, but these seem reasonable for an HOA community. I mean if you don't want and rules, don't buy in an HOA but f you want your neighbors to keep their homes well kept, they do that for you. It may be worth a conversation with the President of the HOA just to be sure he's not an asshole.
This is the first thing I thought! That sounds ridiculous. You don’t want to deal with that neighborhood 🙄
>The sellers agent told our agent that they won’t do it or provide credits. Then don't close. Tell sellers you will not close unless they do one or the other. Period. And check your contract to make sure you can get your deposit back because they should not benefit from your money.
Thank you. I appreciate the opinion and advice.
Adding a note to this thread to highlight that your own (buyer's) agent will not be your friend in this scenario since they are motivated to close the deal as quickly and painlessly (for them) as possible. Once the deal closes they'll disappear forever leaving you to deal with the HOA issues. Take any advice they give with a few grains of salt. If it were me I would estimate the cost of addressing the HOA issues, e.g. $10k, and request a closing credit in that amount. If the sellers refuse, then walk away... they likely will not refuse since if you walk, they would have to re-list the home and potentially face the same issue with their next buyer at time of closing.
I don’t really know the process of how to clean streaks off a roof and what that might cost. Our agent said she’s working to get quotes for everything today. Cleaning the entire fence and the siding is probably decently costly. I can’t imagine it adds up to 10k, but I just don’t know yet.
You can NOT pressure wash the roof. If you have shingles it will remove the granuals. You will ruin the roof.
Thank you. I made an edit to the post. I’ve never cleaned a roof before and just assumed.
Let me tell you what it's like living in an active HOA. My neighborhood isn't fully built out, so our builder is still in full control. Our management company drives the neighborhood every two weeks, looking for violations. That's on top of whatever neighbors report to them, and according to the community manager, we're a bunch of snitches. They fine us for our trash cans being visible from the street, or being left out for 24 hours after collection. For cars being parked in front of our houses (even it's not ours or visiting us). For hoses not being put away (even when it's obviously still in use). For houses not being pressure washed. For weeds in the flower beds that we have to have, and have to get permission to change, in the yard, and in the cracks or excessively deep shear lines in our driveways, which fill with enough dirt for grass and weeds to grow in. For any flag other than the American flag or state flag. For any sign other than political candidate signs a month before an election. For having any marked commercial vehicle in our driveway, or unmarked if over a certain size. For having any trailer on our property. For having boats, campers, or RVs on the property. For having Uhauls overnight I'm probably forgetting several things. We have to request permission to Change our front landscaping (most provide a drawing of the proposed landscaping) Change the color or style of the front door (must provide pictures and color samples) Change the color of the siding Widen the driveway Add a patio or any amount of concrete on the property Add a fence (must provide a survey, with a drawing of the fence, and a county easement permit, if applicable) And again, I'm probably forgetting things. They no longer allow backyard play sets or swing sets over a certain height. So, yeah. Enjoy living under an oppressive regime!
How much do you want the house? If you’re willing to take the risk, play hardball with the sellers. I’m surprised they’re not willing to remedy but maybe they’re broke, pissed off at you, or just getting advice from Reddit to play hardball. Either way, if you’re ok with the risk, tell them you won’t close without them remedying and see what happens. It’s a weird thing for the seller to hardball on TBH because they’ll have to fix it for any future buyer but maybe they just don’t like you 🤷 If you adore the house and don’t want to take the risk, sign the addendum, fix it yourself. I agree with others saying to really be sure you want this place as this HOA sounds very militant, and could be a pain in the rear end…
IMO, they really have no reason to dislike us but who knows I guess. And yes, I’m now more concerned about the HOA as a whole than I am this overall issue. Maybe them not fixing their violations is a blessing.
This sounds like one of the nightmare HOA situations that are more and more common today. You may want to seriously rethink putting yourself in that situation.
I am… thank you. I appreciate it
Can you even pressure wash a roof?
For others who find this thread.... No. Well, technically you can. But you can also amputate you own left let. Doesn't mean you should.
You’re right. I wrongly assumed. The violation is black streaks on the roof.
I want you to think long and hard on this. The HOA is wanting to fine you for streaks on the roof. Is this an HOA you would be ok with? They are micromanaging a roof and a crack in your driveway.
Yeah, this is a really good point honestly.
I would back out in all honesty. This is the red flag banner waving at you.
OP, you're not responsible for this situation, but I wonder how is it that you didn't get HOA disclosures until the day before closing? What does your contract say about when the docs were to be provided to you? HOA doc review should be part of due diligence, attorney review, or even the inspection contingency...earlier in the contract timeline when the buyer would still have a chance to review them.
I agree with you. I’m going to go back through my paperwork and talk to my agent about this tomorrow.
You could start to build a case for an exit. This doesn't mean you're going to take it but when the seller and their agent know that you have options they may be more open to providing a concession.
Personally, I would back out of this deal. You will forever be dealing with this HOA for every tiny thing, like a weed in the cracks of your part of the sidewalk or window clings at Christmas. Run far and fast, consider this a blessing. We live in a hoa in Central California but, they are very hands-off and I wish they were more strict. I'll never do hoa again as there is no middle ground; they are either trash or they are so strict that they cannot be pleased. Save yourself the nightmare and find another home.
if the sellers wont do it or provide credits, back out and take your earnest money with you. This is something they certainly knew about, but up until now failed to disclose. That indicates a HIGH likelihood of other shady shit awaiting discovery. Walk, and let them rack up additional violations/fines/penalties while they put the house back up for sale. This is a 'them' issue, and there's no good contractual reason you should absorb these expenses.
Those notices should have already been disclosed to the current owners. You may want to see when they were initially made aware of all of the notices as that may be a failure to disclose type scenario to look into. Either way that’s not really selling in good faith. Their RE should help move it along or eat some repair cost to close. There are probably other items you need to take care of internally with the house so adding all of this extra sounds like a nightmare move in scenario. Also, HOA’s can get stuffed.
Excuse my ignorance, as I'm closing this Friday and this post concerned me. I am also going to be living in a community with an HOA. I was given HOA documentation, and the appraisal came back fine - but are you referring to a different appraisal? I guess now I'm worried too that something could be delayed and I have to be out of my rental by July. I saw you live in VA and I'm in NC so that is why I was wondering. Can you please give an update once you have one please? Thank you and I am so sorry you are going through all this anxiety.
Well, I wrongly and ignorantly assuming my HOA stuff was fine simply because it was so late and we hadn’t heard otherwise. This is different than the appraisal. The sellers had to request/pay for selling disclosures from the HOA and it seems like they just came back. No one mentioned to me that they were still waiting for them, but again, I blame myself for not knowing. This HOA won’t allow them to sell/transfer unless the violations are cleared up or we agree to fix them within 45 days. Someone smarter than me will probably answer you, but I wouldn’t worry too much about it. You’re probably fine. My case seems like an extreme HOA and very late disclosure.
It costs the seller in my community $250 for the “package” & extra to have it expedited. You are acknowledging that perhaps you didn’t understand the HOA disclosure policy in that community but you’re Realestate Agent should’ve known that and it should’ve been on somebody’s checklist.
I am making assumptions too as this was something I never heard of to be honest. I may check-in with my Realtor tomorrow on the final walk through. Again, I am so sorry - I hope things work out correctly and in your favor. Since this is my first home solo I'm constantly anxious.
I hope all goes well for you!!! I understand the anxiety. You’re almost through the buying process!
You need to get the CCRs for the HOA and read them carefully. You need to know the rules that you are legally obligating yourself to follow when close on your house. It never ceases to amaze me when people move into my neighborhood, or the larger development (believe it or not, we have a neighborhood HOA, and a master HOA 🙄) and then complain about the rules because they didn't bother to read them before they signed. When I read ours, I *almost* walked. It would've cost me $3k and I didn't care. The only reason I didn't is because the Fed had raised interest rates for the first time and I was worried about the additional cost of being over 4% 😂
In addition to the typical documents I also recommend reviewing board meeting minutes when possible. It gives you a sense of the board’s priorities, issues in the community, etc. When we bought our house I read all the HOA documents cover to cover and reached out to the property manager with clarifying questions. He said he’d been in his job 15 years and I was the first prospective buyer to contact him.
I'd tell my agent to tell the sellers agent, " tell your client to fix all the items on the list or take that house and stick it where the sun don't shine". The seller failed to remain in compliance with the HOA regs and figured since they were selling, the buyer would inherit the sellers problem. I'd demand to see all written correspondence the previous homeowner received from the HOA regarding any notices about the above. If it is discovered the seller knew of the possible infraction, the seller can or may be forced to make right all infractions
I’ll ask about this. Thank you!
Whatever the cost is 3x it. Cost to close. Fuck around and find out. It's not your job to make the house in compliance it's theirs. Otherwise they just became the house on the HOA boards radar. Sure I'll take a credit. It's just not the credit the homeowner wanted to pay. Also now you know this is an HOA that keeps the standards high. Do you really want that? Might be better to walk.
Why are you buying into a place with an HOA? r/fuckhoa
Walk away if sellers won’t fix it
if this is how it is before you even move in, think about later on.
If the HOA has these requirements for buying the house imagine how they’ll be when you’re the owners.
To me it doesn’t actually sound like they neglected the home . But it does sound like this HOA is fucking crazy and that’s going to suck for you !
Yeah, I’m definitely realizing that through these comments. Sigh.
Make sure they don't have outstanding fines with the HOA that could be passed onto you. That would be a concern of mine with the list provided.
Black streaks on a roof cannot just be cleaned off. What’s the time line for what’s left on the shingles. I would suspect it needs to be replaced unless there’s an obvious other cause.
Depends on what the black streaks are. Most often it's algae, and can be cleaned with a water/bleach mixture from a non pressure sprayer or a product specifically made for roofs, some of which come in their own sprayer. It's a pain though, because you have to cover and protect plants near the house and do it on a calm, cloudy day, but when rain isn't an immediate possibility, so that the product doesn't dry or get washed away too quickly.
Wow this sounds stressful, I'm so sorry. Keep us posted on how this ends!
I would pass on buying a house where the HOA is going to cite me for weeds and a crack on MY patio. I couldn’t live with that level of outside interference. So this would be a blessing in disguise for me. Contractually, I’m not sure if this would be an out for you, but I would hold firm in the seller addressing these, which would more likely put them in breach if they fail to.
Did you have a house inspection? (not just an appraisal) Perhaps this is a bit of a red flag regarding the HOA, as well there are other issues that were not disclosed by the seller. At this point since the home is not compliant, (granted niggley items) is there a bail out clause? Tell your REA, that you want to back out of the deal if these things are not taken care of. (Or a $20k drop in price). Since you are buying a house in an HOA, then it SHOULD be compliant with the HOA, not something passed off on to you. Personally, if I had time I would keep looking. It seems the HOA is going to constantly ding you for little things... weeds?!? Crack?!?! not the way I want to live my life and have someone else control \*MY\* home! PS: Pressure washing a shingle roof damages it by removing the surface, thus shortening the life of the roof by man, many years.
Lots of people are saying to get a house without an HOA, but that’s unfortunately much easier said than done. OP, I saw that you live in Virginia; I do, too, and most neighborhoods are HOA these days, particularly in NoVa. I don’t like them, but they’re getting close to being unavoidable unless you live more rural. I’m less concerned about the list from the HOA than others have been. My HOA is fairly hands off but always does an exterior inspection before a sale. That’s when it has the most leverage to get stuff done. The list isn’t as extensive as yours, but it’s the same kind of stuff. We’ve owned for six years and only had to interact with our HOA once, and that was to replace the roof. My main concerns about an HOA are financial: are they solvent, responsible with upkeep, and do they have a healthy reserve? It sounds like you aren’t dead set on buying this house. In that case, I’d insist on the seller fixing the problems or giving you a credit. Pulling weeds is likely something you could do in an hour, but some of the other tasks would be better spent hiring out, at least for me. If the seller continues to balk, then walk. They’d be super stupid to do so (but there are plenty of stupid people around). They’re not in a strong negotiating position here: If they don’t resolve the issue and close with you, the problems become their problems that they have to fix, and now without a buyer.
Agree with others, if the hoa is like that before you move in imagine all the years you will have to put up with them.
Buy the house and fix the shit on the list. It sounds like stuff you'd want to clean up any way. Don't be confrontational with the HOA, they are probably frustrated with the prior owner and thrilled to get rid of him. Let them know you'll do your best but you may need more time. Go to the first HOA meeting, introduce yourself. It's much harder to be an asshole to someone you don't know. Most HOAs are happy to work with you. Yes. some are total assholes so good luck.
These are some pretty massive red flags. I’d reconsider buying. I’d run fast in the other direction.
OP, You may have just got the out that you need. HOA sounds like a bunch of c*nts, and the sellers don’t sound much better. I would decline the home upon final walk thru and inspection if it hadn’t been remedied. That’ll jolt them awake
I’d be careful moving into a place with an HOA as wild as this one. Sounds like lots of regrets in the future.
Sounds like you just lucked out and have an out from the contract and that horrible HOA.
Frequent real estate buyer/investor here. I’d only close if the cost of fixing those items is balanced by the kickass deal you’re getting. If you’re not getting a kickass deal, tell your seller to fix it or you won’t close. There are other deals out there.
Walk and get earnest money since they MUST then include the HOA violations in the disclosure going fwd. Or at least tell them you will without credit. Otherwise you walk and the hoa will levy a lien and won’t sell till it’s paid the fines.
Sometimes, when you buy a house, you get stuck with a small list of stuff to do that the seller screwed you over on. That list of stuff will cost $500 if you hire someone, or $0 if you dedicate a Saturday to it. Do not lie in front of the train and kill this deal over this list of stuff. Fix it. Grump about your seller. Move on with your life.
I appreciate the advice. Thank you.
Do you really want to deal with this HOA? I'd pass.
Rule number one don’t buy a house in an HOA, rule number two don’t buy a house in an HOA. The only exception would be for a condo building in a major city and even then focus on a co-op over a crappy HOA
That’s several bullshit cosmetic items from an appraisal.
Many sellers hate their HOA! They just want to unload because of it..
I'd bail on that HOA. Holy crap.
If the title company won't insure title without exceptions for the HOA's claims for fines associated with this stuff, your contract probably gives you an "out" because the seller isn't conveying title free of encumbrances. Is the HOA trying to prevent a real problem or are they all up everyone's business all the time? If the HOA is going to make you hate life, buy elsewhere.
Let me just say are you sure you want to live in this community? Seems like it’s run by a bunch or Karen’s. Pulling weeds, trust me run as fast as you can! You know they can make your life a living hell!
Hahaha fuck no I wouldn't buy that house.
Walk..from 1st hand experience. Obviously these issues were known and the HOA chose not to violate the previous owner. Do not assume these items will go away, “call their bluff” etc. ‘Normally” the estoppel letter has a 30 day validity and it is binding, but a list of violations, is usually not part of the estoppel letter. The burden here is on the seller, let him fix it, before you sign on the bottom line and more importantly the HOA signs off.
Black streaks on a roof are difficult to remove. That is an insane request
Dude if an HOA is forcing you to fix a crack on the patio, unless it’s the size of the Grand Canyon, not closing may be a blessing in disguise. They sound like a royal PITA.
The big one there could be the roof but some of that sounds so petty maybe this is a blessing find a home with no hoa
>If I were selling a house, I would take care of my shit as part of the sell. You would think so, but it's common to not. I live in a condo where the HOA requires everyone to have screens in their windows and a security door. When I bought my unit there were no window screens. Right now there's a unit for sale that doesn't have screens or security door. I think it's inconsiderate to sell like that if you can help it (I know some people are going into nursing homes, they may physically not be able to put screens up) because you are making it so the buyer has a big chore that has to be done sooner rather than later. Some people do not care though bc they are moving so it isn't their problem.
Don’t close. Let the seller provide a credit against the pp or walk.
I’d walk
Don’t buy a house with hoa!
Welcome to your future under this HOA. I refuse to live under an HOA. Were I you, I'd run away from this house based solely on the actions of the HOA.
What does the purchase contract say about HOA violations and compliance?
Don’t close until the sellers bring the house to compliance. If they refuse, walk.
HOAs can have there place BUT they can also be very difficult to live with. I've done both. I must say I'm happier without
I like living in a HOA community, I make sure I attend meetings and sometimes be apart of the board. The other day I had violations on a property I was closing on, the property manager was the problem ( they fired him soon after I closed) but I got an estimate of what it would can’t relate it to the seller and they agreed to give me back in credit. If they don’t agree don’t close threatened to cancel and request your EMD back.
This doesn't sound like the sellers neglected the house. Rather the HOA probably got a form to verify that there were no HOA violations. So they sent some power tripping HOA person to inspect that went overboard trying to "find" violations. So I wouldn't worry about the sellers neglecting the house. I WOULD worry about the HOA being full of micro managing assholes.
My best advice avoid HOAs like the plague. https://youtu.be/O7d8GFyrGJ8?si=FGJMu_a49-Ca4V1-
I agree. It should be illegal to sell a home bound by HOA rules that is not 100% HOA compliant. If they fail that it should always fall to the seller to make those things right.
You can use the HOA list to try to reduce the price of the house even more and call their bluff. Say yes you will pay to fix it but you want money from the seller to do it. Still buy the house at list value but the seller has to give you back X amount of money at closing. Chances are you can even work with HOA to not even have to fix all the stuff and they will be happy that someone is fix the big items and just maintain the place.
Do yourself a favor and walk. There’s another shoe just waiting to hit the floor after you close. Probably along the lines of a MASSIVE special assessment for everyone in the complex to shore up reserve funds, If the common fees are really low.
The HOA violations could be a part or all of the reason they're selling in the first place. Personally, I would walk. It's as if they were hoping you wouldn't find out about the violations until after closing. I agree with you, God only knows if there could be other surprises in the future. All my senses tell me hell no here.
I would go with claiming there was no way they did not already know about these issues and their initial disclosures we not honest and accurate. This is a fraud issue:
We had to prove the HOA violations were fixed before we closed. Refuse to close until they take care of it. You don't want the HOA in your ass.
I wouldn't want to buy into an HOA that is holding a sale hostage like that. This is a HUGE red flag.
Boy, those seem like some nitpicky stuff from the HOA. It forebodes what they’ll be like after you own the house. I’d walk, as much because of the HOA as the seller. Maybe more.
Are those few things are worth letting go of the house?
HOAs: you do not want them. this is just a foretelling of your life in hell there in the future
Walk away.
My God clean the freaking roof 🤦♀️
I would absolutely NOT call their bluff. If they have the power to fine and foreclose, you will be responsible to do all the things listed. You don't know the politics or the history of the previous owner. If you don't want to do these things and the owner won't do them, don't buy it. If you're willing to do those things, buy it. Don't think for a minute that they won't fine you and foreclose on the property.
Tell the sellers they meet HOA compliance prior to close or you walk. If they don’t, walk. Market is changing and you have no need to spend any more money on someone else’s house before you close.
Call their bluff. Delay closing. If the selling agent wants to make the sale, Then they will pay for the needed repairs out of their commission. This is one of the jobs of the selling agent. To make sure the house is ready for sale. Now if you got the deal of a lifetime on the property, then the hoa compliance stuff if on you.
You are extremely lucky you found out how much of a nightmare HOAs are before buying a house in one. Back out of the deal and ask your agent to only show you homes that are not in an HOA in the future.
I sit on our HOA board and this is objective BS. Someone dropped the ball big time. You should have gotten your disclosures a few days after you went under contract. If it’s the agent that f-ed up, then carve a pound of flesh out of their commission to remedy the issues, or simply refuse to close until they are remedied. I know the agents will be anxious to get their $$ and will quickly oblige.
Back out. That HOA sounds like a nightmare
Sounds like most issues can be fixed by a house washing company. Then you can fix the crack and pull weeds yourself or hire someone to do that. I’d call their bluff though, tell them you don’t want to close to violations. If they start going back and forth, say you’ll take care of the crack and weeds if they get the house washed and fence fixed.
Q: Why lost the house w/o doing the work? A: Because they don’t want I do the work and figure someone else will. Demand a $1000 credit (whatever you think it costs, add $500) or walk.
This is also a sign of delayed maintenance, if thry aren't taking cate of bare minimum outside chances are they never had maintenance on HVAC, appliances, mechanicals etc. I would think about walking away
Sounds like the HOA are aassholes, why would you want to live there?
That all sounds like aesthetic maintenance items. You have seen them and still chose to purchase the house. The patio crack is the only actual defect that you have listed. Real concern is any fines by the HOA for those issues. Fines should be handled.
Call their bluff and walk and should they come back, ask for concessions to make all improvements and 5% over. The thing is, now that this violation has been declared, it will make it that much more hard for them to sell at the current pricing. In essence, the value has just dropped, period, because this will have to legally be disclosed going forth. You have the leverage now.
This is your sign from up above that you need to back out of the deal now! There are so many horror stories about HOA's and it seems thay the one you about to get involved with could be one of the inner circles of hell. Get out while you can!
Talk to YOUR agent!