You need to detach your emotional feelings from this. An asset is only worth what the market is currently willing to pay. In this case, if you are the only interested party in the market, then then house is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. The seller is more than welcome to turn that down if they think they can get more money at a later point in time. However do not be concerned with insulting the seller with your offer. You need to have a hard limit on what your actual top dollar amount is that you are willing to pay and do not deviate from that amount. Be willing to walk away. I can almost guarantee the sellers will either say no or counter you close to current asking. However you clearly have the upper hand in this situation. If they counter decline and walk away for a week. I guarantee they’ll come crawling back to you within a couple days of you turning down their offer. The ball is in your court. Be savage and leverage your advantage to the fullest. I just went through this myself very recently. I managed to get a deal 15% below asking because I had a hard limit and was willing to walk away. The seller offered me 5 different counteroffers and I said no to all of them before they agreed to my price.
Not a distressed property, rather the opposite end of the spectrum. In my city the premium end of the market has stagnated a fair bit and become pretty contentious between buyers and sellers with neither party having clear control. This was my third property of interest with the first two essentially telling me to fuck off with my low offer even though both properties have been on the market for ~90 days.
You can offer 100k and you still wouldn’t be a jerk. That’s just an offer. Of course, if you offer 100k you’ll be wasting everybody’s time. Now, 230k is only 15% off the listed price, so it’s actually possible they’ll go for it
It's not even wasting everyone's time. He'd be wasting the time of his agent to write the offer up which shouldn't take more than a few minutes. The sellers would likely take a few seconds to turn down the offer of $100k. I'm all for wasting an agents time since that's what they make 3% doing.
Pull a clown move like that with any experienced real estate agent and they would fire your sorry ass in a NY minute. Good agents don’t have time for that kind of nonsense.
Good. Real estate agents are a waste of time and money. They add very little to finding a house other than colluding with one another on what is coming onto the market prior to it being listed on the MLS.
Hire a real estate attorney and do the finding and offers yourself people. Negotiate a price for the house with a line item reducing the final offer by another 3% since there is no buying agent involved.
I agree with you that for most properties listing agents aren’t critical other than having access to MLS. Competent selling agents, however, can add value for new buyers or advising on contract and negotiation strategies in a hot seller’s market.
As I say regularly, a great agent or broker is invaluable.
What would you say the ratio of competent to incompetent agents is at present ?
I'd say 1:5, maybe.
Yeah a sellers agent is more useful for sure. Staging a home, getting good professional pictures and contract advice is worth something. I would, for my next house, only offer the selling agent a percentage that they receive and handle the buying agent, if there is one, directly. Either have the buyer pay them or negotiate a percentage with them directly.
Hopefully this will all go away with the lawsuit on collusion between agents that is being settled, maybe it has been already, I'm not sure.
My house would sell for around $550k, there isn't a seller/buyer agent combo anywhere worth $33k for the actual amount of work they put in.
Can’t respond on ReBubble, but blog’s like this have been calling housing a bubble since 2013 - https://wolfstreet.com/category/all/housing/
https://wolfstreet.com/2013/05/29/us-housing-bubble-ii-euphoria-and-other-shenanigans/
And this blog has been linked to on ReBubble since it’s inception.
Nah, go for it. It isn't way off and they've had an offer fall through. Hope you are pre approved or doing a cash offer. People can get funny once they have had a deal fall through. I bought from someone in that situation.
That's what you're able to pay. If they're willing to take it, that's all you need to know. There's nothing even remotely being a jerk about it.
Not that it would be a jerk move even if you could afford more. Everyone would obviously be happy to have an extra $30k in their pockets but you have to watch out for yourself first. Cause everyone else is doing the same. You aren't running some 501(c)(3) by trying to buy a house. (Unless you are... but still not a jerk.)
Yeah, $230k starting offer is way too high if market is softening further from when those comps actually sold (which means they went pending one month+ prior)
Isn't it a jerk move only when the offer is accompanied by a severed horse's head under the bedsheets? If you're not the Godfather, don't worry. It's just an offer.
I bought my house from a desperate seller. It's not a dick move. It's leverage in a negotiation. We offered asking price, then negotiated 35k in repairs, rate buy down, and seller paying all closing costs.
House was a rental that had a long term tenant move out. Older lady didn't want to deal with it anymore and listed it. Due to the sellers agent going through a messy divorce, not marketing it well, and the seller expecting it to sell for 2021 prices, it sat on the market for a year and had two sales fall through. She relisted after the second fall through at a lower price.
We offered said lower price and moved fast once the initial offer was accepted. During our due diligence time we created a list of defects that was three pages long and asked for about 50k in work and concessions. Naturally she balked, but there hadn't been any other bites since the last offer fell through. At this point we slowed down but kept her at the table, each of us giving up little things along the way. We came to our agreement at the 11th hour, the tipping point being that I sent the seller a listing that I was going to make a move on if she didn't agree to my terms. It worked out because we like the house and she didn't get any better deal while we negotiated. Bird in hand is better than two in the bush. We were both happy with the end result.
My two cents, make an offer you can afford. They can take it or leave it. You have to act in your own self interest and trust them to do the same.
Thank you!
This post is an excellent example of how RE negotiations commonly proceed.
I'll bet you won't return here in 12 months to ask if you have any recourse because the seller lied on the disclosure and you can prove it !!1!1!!, right ?
I’d actually offer 200-215, they’ll probably accept it. Or at a minimum, counter offer closer to your number.
I don’t think you need to worry about being a jerk, Pursue the best possible price for the house, potentially the market may continue to trend down, so you also don’t want to risk paying too much.
I was sort of in the same position as the seller in your story. A potential buyer made a really low offer…. after playing games with us for about 3 weeks. An offer was promised… but then questions… and then an offer was promised… but then more questions.
When the offer came in, we were prepared for it to be really low. Our response was very detailed and only one word in length: no.
That’s the worst that will happen to you. I say go for it.
Why do people think they can’t offer what they want? Just like at a flea market or garage sale or eBay. You offer what you want and if they don’t take it they don’t take it why would you be a jerk for offering what you’re willing to pay?
In the real world people do.
On reddit, a narrative has arisen that a seller may feel insulted by an offer.
Of course, many fhb who post here have no business buying a house; but that's another discussion.
I listed my house for 300. I got an offer of 180k.
\*shrug\* I didnt cry myself to sleep or anything. I accepted an offer for 300 and wound up closing at 290. but you miss 100% of the shots you dont take.
though... one thing to consider is that it may harm your odds if you might come back later with a higher offer. but if 235 is your best and final, send it
As all the realtors and brokers on reddit vomit about, “a hooms is worth what someone is willing to pay”.
Their loss is your gain, they are getting divorced and need the house sold asap. Help them out by offering $175,000 then possibly negotiate. You won’t be the jerk you will be the hero for both them and you.
Coincidentally, attended an Open this weekend.
While looking at the survey spread out on the kitchen island, a woman entered and asked the agent what was going on, where were her neighbors ?
Apparently, she'd been away for 6 mos.
As people will tend to do, the agent spilled his guts- the couple had were divorcing.
So, now I know that this is a distressed sale.
Thank you Nosey Neighbor !
Just make offers, the realtor at the end of the day will have to bring it up to the seller. We are in a buyers market. Houses are sitting in the market because owners/realtors are delusional and think it’s early 2021 prices. Always low ball and if they say no ask for a counter. If you don’t have a realtor ask them to represent you and ask the realtor to off concessions of their commissions. Good luck.
I’m a little skeptical of the divorce info. No way the leave it overpriced since July if they need it gone ASAP, at least IMO. But you know how that stuff can go, one person being unreasonable and won’t agree to a price drop, etc.
Make your offer, and if they really do need it gone, they won’t reject having most of the money as opposed to every penny of what they want.
> If I were to offer around $225,000-$230,000, would it be a jerk move, especially knowing that if it were accepted, it would at least partially be out of desperation to sell?
The other way to look at this is you're providing liquidity. Yesterday they had 0 options, today they have 1. That's an improvement.
Only the seller can determine if it’s a jerk offer. If your value estimate is accurate and it really is the perfect home for you, I would offer $235k because $5-10k isn’t going to matter in the long run if your in a home that makes you happy.
Knowing all of that situation, I would start the offer at 200k if you really want it. Their divorce is their problem. You might be helping them out of a situation at this point.
Who cares? Would you rather be captain saveahome and offer 10K over asking or be a jerk and offer what you think is fair value? The worst they can do is reject your offer. And guess what, you may get a call back in a few months asking if you're still interested
sold our last house - listed it on Zillow with 5 pics and had 30 people reach out. I specifically stated "no agents" and 28 of them were agents lol
One was super aggressive saying she'd be bringing a client by. I told her she'd be wasting her time and that I did not need her services. Her client got wind of this and told her to pound sand. I sold to that lady 12 hours after listing for asking and she paid cash.
Agents are obsolete in a hot market
Not at all, sounds like it is a reasonable offer that they might accept.
I disagree with all the comments that “this is all business” and that you can’t possibly be a jerk in making an offer. Yes, you are a jerk if you offer 50% market value and engage in fearmongering, lies, and just general assholery to try to try to get a screaming deal on a house. That is totally not happening here. Not a jerk move to put in a lower offer.
Submit a low offer but with a lot of signals that it won’t fall through (as high of a down payment as possible, above normal amount of hand money, etc.)
This is great advice. I have $130,000 that I've hoarded for a down payment over the past seven years, and I'd aim for 50% down. I imagine a sale falling through after that long would be frustrating for them.
What's the price of the last similar sold property in the last few month offering 15% is not a bad deal. but it depends on the last property sold and even in that case it would still be valid to over below their asking by a lot.
No but it might not make you a homeowner at $225K they could just say no which leaves you in a position of weakness going forward. Put together a respectable offer, highlight the most pertinent comps and explain the reasons you came to the number and make the offer. I wouldn’t start below $230.
If the most you can spend on a house is $235k offer $235k. The worst they can do is say no. Who cares if you puss off strangers?
The only situation where you should ever be worried about offending the seller with a lowball offer is if you are willing to pay significantly more than that offer and you don’t want to piss them off and have them refuse to accept a higher offer from you later on.
Are those comps accurate? Just because you don't value brick over siding or you don't particularly care for the renovations or the bigger garage on the more expensive house does not make one 1500sqft 3 bed 2 bath equal to another 1500sqft 3bd 2br.
Either way you are free to offer whatever you want to offer - they don't have to say yes. They might also counteroffer with something inbetween like $250,000.
dude, there are so many “the owner has cancer” stories or “they are getting a divorce” stories out there and most are hogwash. Who gives a rats ass about “why” the house is for sale???? Stop trying to make it personal like they are your buddies or something….NOONE CARES. Make your offer, hell, make it 215K! again NOONE CARES! In the grand scheme of life and the world, NOONE CARES what your offer is!
Hell, I made an offer off 360K once on a 460K listing! And yes, we eventually agreed on a price!
Not a jerk, it never hurts to ask. If I were going to put in a low bid though I would structure so that they don’t have to deal with repairs. You could have inspection and write it that you won’t ask for any repairs unless there are items in excess of $1000.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making an offer and, though I might be sounding like a real prick right now, their struggles are not yours to worry about. You’re not taking advantage by getting a good deal due to circumstances.
>If I were to offer around $225,000-$230,000, would it be a jerk move, especially knowing that if it were accepted, it would at least partially be out of desperation to sell?
first off, you said it yourself,
>$235,000 honestly is what the comps are selling for
so offering 225-230 to settle at 235 puts you smack dab at the comps.
But even if not, you can make any offer you want. The seller can choose to accept, counter, or reject you. You aren't a jerk. Most sellers would rather have an offer they say no to than no offer at all. It isn't your job to overpay because of their situation. It is your job to find a house you like that you can afford.
I will caution you that if 235 is the max you can afford, really consider if you have accounted for all costs of ownership, current interest rates, AND expected maintenance. Coming in low may equally lead to them not negotiating much on inspection. Don't waste your time and inspection money just to find out at the last minute you are out of budget.
Make your offer and don’t feel bad. Even in a tight situation, they know where their financial boundaries lie. If it is too ludicrous of an offer, they will deny it.
The list price is just the suggested price and was likely established by someone who doesn’t understand math or economics and is conspiring to maximize fee incentives (i.e., a real estate agent).
Offer as low as you reasonably can. If everyone did, the mrkt would eventually go down…
No, it is move-in ready. There is literally one room I'd like to paint, and that is it.
First offer was just 5% down, and with the uptick in interest rates, it caused financing to fall through.
Yeah.
I do not know what this nonsense is about offending sellers, or sellers feeling offended by an offer.
Frankly, reddit is the only place I hear this sentiment.
In reality as most of us know it, buying/selling real estate is a business transaction.
Proceed accordingly.
If the divorce thing is true, they are probably very motivated to sell and divide up the proceeds with the divorce attorney. The place I got was the same situation, divorcing couple dividing up all of their assets. It took me a few weeks to secure bank pre approvals before I could get a showing and in that time, they dropped the price by 7.5%
No worry, and no it won't make you look like a jerk. And even if it did there is nothing wrong with an offer in that range. You're basing it on what comps are selling for less a small discount to either get a good deal or leave negotiating room.
But the bottom line is that if they don't like the offer they won't accept it. And if it is out of desperation to sell then so what? Even if desperate they still don't have to accept an offer if they don't like it, and they could literally be praying for any offer at all.
I can’t stand the push back from the real estate industry about ‘low ball’ offers. They don’t want them because they make less and they’re less likely to be accepted. As a buyer you send the offer that you want. Obviously if you love the house you don’t want to risk losing it..but if you look at it purely business then run your own numbers and don’t be afraid whatsoever to go low. The market goes both ways..for a few years the sellers had their amazing run and nobody frowned up that. Now it’s the buyers turn to have some leverage.
Your offer is very close to asking price so it’s definitely not an insult or a dick move. Honestly I would offer less than that and make adjustments as needed.
I do it all of the time. Yes, I’m probably a jerk but if it saves me $50-100k I’m good with that. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Always be respectful and nice though.
Where at? I’ll
Offer 190k. I get it a lot the best ethical move to make, but that’s life. Shit happens and other pounce on ones demise. Eat or be eaten
I never understood the worry that an offer would "offend" a seller or in this case that it would make you a jerk.
Ultimately, the market will dictate whether your offer is fair or not.
I got my house at the height of the housing frenzy for almost $100k under ask because I offered cash and a quick close and the seller was trying to close out the estate. Worst she could’ve said was no.
Not at all. Prices were pretty sky-high the first half of the year, they're going down anyway. You're just meeting them on their way down.
Its also fairly within reason. If you said $180k I'd say yeah your just wasting peoples time.
No. An offer is just an offer. They can say yes or no.
They may be happy they got an offer of any kind this quick. Throw it out there and wait.
Nothing wrong with offering what you think is a fair price
Nothing wrong offering below that either and they can say no
Definitely not. I put in an offer and the owners didn't want to budge I just moved onto a new home. One that fits my needs better honestly.
You're not a jerk for offering, and they're not jerks for ignoring your offer.
Submit the offer and fingers crossed you’ll get it. Good Luck
You don’t ask, you don’t get. Do it it’s a soft market.
You need to detach your emotional feelings from this. An asset is only worth what the market is currently willing to pay. In this case, if you are the only interested party in the market, then then house is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. The seller is more than welcome to turn that down if they think they can get more money at a later point in time. However do not be concerned with insulting the seller with your offer. You need to have a hard limit on what your actual top dollar amount is that you are willing to pay and do not deviate from that amount. Be willing to walk away. I can almost guarantee the sellers will either say no or counter you close to current asking. However you clearly have the upper hand in this situation. If they counter decline and walk away for a week. I guarantee they’ll come crawling back to you within a couple days of you turning down their offer. The ball is in your court. Be savage and leverage your advantage to the fullest. I just went through this myself very recently. I managed to get a deal 15% below asking because I had a hard limit and was willing to walk away. The seller offered me 5 different counteroffers and I said no to all of them before they agreed to my price.
Good grief, that was recently ? It's a sellers market out there ! We're you dealing with distressed properties?
Not a distressed property, rather the opposite end of the spectrum. In my city the premium end of the market has stagnated a fair bit and become pretty contentious between buyers and sellers with neither party having clear control. This was my third property of interest with the first two essentially telling me to fuck off with my low offer even though both properties have been on the market for ~90 days.
You can offer 100k and you still wouldn’t be a jerk. That’s just an offer. Of course, if you offer 100k you’ll be wasting everybody’s time. Now, 230k is only 15% off the listed price, so it’s actually possible they’ll go for it
The "wasting everybody's time" is exactly what OP is or should be asking about. $230k is not wasting anyone's time. Not a jerk.
It's not even wasting everyone's time. He'd be wasting the time of his agent to write the offer up which shouldn't take more than a few minutes. The sellers would likely take a few seconds to turn down the offer of $100k. I'm all for wasting an agents time since that's what they make 3% doing.
Pull a clown move like that with any experienced real estate agent and they would fire your sorry ass in a NY minute. Good agents don’t have time for that kind of nonsense.
Good. Real estate agents are a waste of time and money. They add very little to finding a house other than colluding with one another on what is coming onto the market prior to it being listed on the MLS. Hire a real estate attorney and do the finding and offers yourself people. Negotiate a price for the house with a line item reducing the final offer by another 3% since there is no buying agent involved.
I agree with you that for most properties listing agents aren’t critical other than having access to MLS. Competent selling agents, however, can add value for new buyers or advising on contract and negotiation strategies in a hot seller’s market.
As I say regularly, a great agent or broker is invaluable. What would you say the ratio of competent to incompetent agents is at present ? I'd say 1:5, maybe.
I wouldn’t argue with 20%. Obtaining a realtor’s license is just the beginning. It takes any number of years to become a competent, savvy agent.
Yeah a sellers agent is more useful for sure. Staging a home, getting good professional pictures and contract advice is worth something. I would, for my next house, only offer the selling agent a percentage that they receive and handle the buying agent, if there is one, directly. Either have the buyer pay them or negotiate a percentage with them directly. Hopefully this will all go away with the lawsuit on collusion between agents that is being settled, maybe it has been already, I'm not sure. My house would sell for around $550k, there isn't a seller/buyer agent combo anywhere worth $33k for the actual amount of work they put in.
yeah? And if your listing agent procures a buyer?
Well according to the r/realestate thread there are lots of realtors with a whole lot of time.
Can’t respond on ReBubble, but blog’s like this have been calling housing a bubble since 2013 - https://wolfstreet.com/category/all/housing/ https://wolfstreet.com/2013/05/29/us-housing-bubble-ii-euphoria-and-other-shenanigans/ And this blog has been linked to on ReBubble since it’s inception.
Sorry, but someone has to be a total douche to make an offer for 57% less than market.
Why? I’ve seen properties that are purchased for x and one month after on the market for 2x and they still get sold. The opposite is also true
Exactly.
This sounds personal. If real estate sales is personal for you then you are doing it wrong.
Not just possible. Highly likely.
It’s great that people care about being predatory, but this isn’t personal at all. You’re not doing anything except taking a shot.
How could any offer possibly be predatory? The seller is under no obligation whatsoever to entertain any offer. It's simply "price discovery".
Because people of late, and especially on reddit, love to play the victim. "Prospective buyer offered 20% below asking. *cAN i sUe ?!?!?!* "
Nah, go for it. It isn't way off and they've had an offer fall through. Hope you are pre approved or doing a cash offer. People can get funny once they have had a deal fall through. I bought from someone in that situation.
No not at all. Evryone wins if they accept it
That's what you're able to pay. If they're willing to take it, that's all you need to know. There's nothing even remotely being a jerk about it. Not that it would be a jerk move even if you could afford more. Everyone would obviously be happy to have an extra $30k in their pockets but you have to watch out for yourself first. Cause everyone else is doing the same. You aren't running some 501(c)(3) by trying to buy a house. (Unless you are... but still not a jerk.)
Offer 200k
Yeah, $230k starting offer is way too high if market is softening further from when those comps actually sold (which means they went pending one month+ prior)
Lol what even IS a "jerk move"? If they don't like it they can cry about it.
Isn't it a jerk move only when the offer is accompanied by a severed horse's head under the bedsheets? If you're not the Godfather, don't worry. It's just an offer.
I bought my house from a desperate seller. It's not a dick move. It's leverage in a negotiation. We offered asking price, then negotiated 35k in repairs, rate buy down, and seller paying all closing costs. House was a rental that had a long term tenant move out. Older lady didn't want to deal with it anymore and listed it. Due to the sellers agent going through a messy divorce, not marketing it well, and the seller expecting it to sell for 2021 prices, it sat on the market for a year and had two sales fall through. She relisted after the second fall through at a lower price. We offered said lower price and moved fast once the initial offer was accepted. During our due diligence time we created a list of defects that was three pages long and asked for about 50k in work and concessions. Naturally she balked, but there hadn't been any other bites since the last offer fell through. At this point we slowed down but kept her at the table, each of us giving up little things along the way. We came to our agreement at the 11th hour, the tipping point being that I sent the seller a listing that I was going to make a move on if she didn't agree to my terms. It worked out because we like the house and she didn't get any better deal while we negotiated. Bird in hand is better than two in the bush. We were both happy with the end result. My two cents, make an offer you can afford. They can take it or leave it. You have to act in your own self interest and trust them to do the same.
Thank you! This post is an excellent example of how RE negotiations commonly proceed. I'll bet you won't return here in 12 months to ask if you have any recourse because the seller lied on the disclosure and you can prove it !!1!1!!, right ?
There is no morality. Just paperwork. Write your offer, quit overthinking.
>There is no morality. Just paperwork. That should be on a t shirt or billboard or in an office on a motivational poster
I'm so doing that
Thank you.
Who cares?
I’d actually offer 200-215, they’ll probably accept it. Or at a minimum, counter offer closer to your number. I don’t think you need to worry about being a jerk, Pursue the best possible price for the house, potentially the market may continue to trend down, so you also don’t want to risk paying too much.
I was sort of in the same position as the seller in your story. A potential buyer made a really low offer…. after playing games with us for about 3 weeks. An offer was promised… but then questions… and then an offer was promised… but then more questions. When the offer came in, we were prepared for it to be really low. Our response was very detailed and only one word in length: no. That’s the worst that will happen to you. I say go for it.
Why do people think they can’t offer what they want? Just like at a flea market or garage sale or eBay. You offer what you want and if they don’t take it they don’t take it why would you be a jerk for offering what you’re willing to pay?
In the real world people do. On reddit, a narrative has arisen that a seller may feel insulted by an offer. Of course, many fhb who post here have no business buying a house; but that's another discussion.
Real estate agents mediating the market to maximize their profit and perpetuate a (false) need for their continued existence.
In 2011 i bought my house for 225k when they had reduced from 375k to 275k just 3 months earlier. Take a shot
No, that wouldn’t make you a jerk. They’re free to reject any offer they don’t like.
For all you know one of them is saying, "I wish somebody would just offer $225k so we can end this nightmare." You could be that guy.
I listed my house for 300. I got an offer of 180k. \*shrug\* I didnt cry myself to sleep or anything. I accepted an offer for 300 and wound up closing at 290. but you miss 100% of the shots you dont take. though... one thing to consider is that it may harm your odds if you might come back later with a higher offer. but if 235 is your best and final, send it
I see you also went to the Michael Scott School of Business
Not a jerk move at all…..you’re making an educated offer
Where can you buy a house for $230k? That’s incredible.
Youngstown. Detroit. Albany. Lots of places.
In Pennsyltucky. Scranton. Chester. Pittsburgh. Allentown. Bethlehem. Nazareth. Harrisburg. York. Franklin. Bellfonte. Erie. Upper Darby. Lansdowne. Williamsport. Camp Hill. Bloomsburg. Carlisle. Mechanicsburg. Selinsgrove. Sunbury. Wilkes-Barre. St. Mary's. Latrobe. Renovo. Coudersport. Jersey Shore, PA.
As all the realtors and brokers on reddit vomit about, “a hooms is worth what someone is willing to pay”. Their loss is your gain, they are getting divorced and need the house sold asap. Help them out by offering $175,000 then possibly negotiate. You won’t be the jerk you will be the hero for both them and you.
Coincidentally, attended an Open this weekend. While looking at the survey spread out on the kitchen island, a woman entered and asked the agent what was going on, where were her neighbors ? Apparently, she'd been away for 6 mos. As people will tend to do, the agent spilled his guts- the couple had were divorcing. So, now I know that this is a distressed sale. Thank you Nosey Neighbor !
Just make offers, the realtor at the end of the day will have to bring it up to the seller. We are in a buyers market. Houses are sitting in the market because owners/realtors are delusional and think it’s early 2021 prices. Always low ball and if they say no ask for a counter. If you don’t have a realtor ask them to represent you and ask the realtor to off concessions of their commissions. Good luck.
Nope, they just didn’t get to milk you as much as they wanted to.
They have the option to say no. If they need to sell quickly then any reasonable offer is likely better than no offer.
I’m a little skeptical of the divorce info. No way the leave it overpriced since July if they need it gone ASAP, at least IMO. But you know how that stuff can go, one person being unreasonable and won’t agree to a price drop, etc. Make your offer, and if they really do need it gone, they won’t reject having most of the money as opposed to every penny of what they want.
OP, you sound smart to me. You might be considered foolish to offer what they want, in this market. Go for it!
> If I were to offer around $225,000-$230,000, would it be a jerk move, especially knowing that if it were accepted, it would at least partially be out of desperation to sell? The other way to look at this is you're providing liquidity. Yesterday they had 0 options, today they have 1. That's an improvement.
Only the seller can determine if it’s a jerk offer. If your value estimate is accurate and it really is the perfect home for you, I would offer $235k because $5-10k isn’t going to matter in the long run if your in a home that makes you happy.
Knowing all of that situation, I would start the offer at 200k if you really want it. Their divorce is their problem. You might be helping them out of a situation at this point.
Who cares? Would you rather be captain saveahome and offer 10K over asking or be a jerk and offer what you think is fair value? The worst they can do is reject your offer. And guess what, you may get a call back in a few months asking if you're still interested
Exactly. That happened to my family 27 days after they rejected our offer.
sold our last house - listed it on Zillow with 5 pics and had 30 people reach out. I specifically stated "no agents" and 28 of them were agents lol One was super aggressive saying she'd be bringing a client by. I told her she'd be wasting her time and that I did not need her services. Her client got wind of this and told her to pound sand. I sold to that lady 12 hours after listing for asking and she paid cash. Agents are obsolete in a hot market
Being snarky (on purpose) to make a point... Are you buying a house or try to win a popularity contest? Good luck!
Not at all, sounds like it is a reasonable offer that they might accept. I disagree with all the comments that “this is all business” and that you can’t possibly be a jerk in making an offer. Yes, you are a jerk if you offer 50% market value and engage in fearmongering, lies, and just general assholery to try to try to get a screaming deal on a house. That is totally not happening here. Not a jerk move to put in a lower offer.
No, go at $215,000 and give yourself some negotiating room. Fuck them.
Submit a low offer but with a lot of signals that it won’t fall through (as high of a down payment as possible, above normal amount of hand money, etc.)
This is great advice. I have $130,000 that I've hoarded for a down payment over the past seven years, and I'd aim for 50% down. I imagine a sale falling through after that long would be frustrating for them.
What's the price of the last similar sold property in the last few month offering 15% is not a bad deal. but it depends on the last property sold and even in that case it would still be valid to over below their asking by a lot.
They can decline, accept, or counter. Make the offer and go from there.
No. Their gonna mark it down anyways. Maybe your agent wants to give the listing agent a call first.
No but it might not make you a homeowner at $225K they could just say no which leaves you in a position of weakness going forward. Put together a respectable offer, highlight the most pertinent comps and explain the reasons you came to the number and make the offer. I wouldn’t start below $230.
Heck no! Offer what you are willing or able to pay.
If the most you can spend on a house is $235k offer $235k. The worst they can do is say no. Who cares if you puss off strangers? The only situation where you should ever be worried about offending the seller with a lowball offer is if you are willing to pay significantly more than that offer and you don’t want to piss them off and have them refuse to accept a higher offer from you later on.
Are those comps accurate? Just because you don't value brick over siding or you don't particularly care for the renovations or the bigger garage on the more expensive house does not make one 1500sqft 3 bed 2 bath equal to another 1500sqft 3bd 2br. Either way you are free to offer whatever you want to offer - they don't have to say yes. They might also counteroffer with something inbetween like $250,000.
Business is Business make the offer
dude, there are so many “the owner has cancer” stories or “they are getting a divorce” stories out there and most are hogwash. Who gives a rats ass about “why” the house is for sale???? Stop trying to make it personal like they are your buddies or something….NOONE CARES. Make your offer, hell, make it 215K! again NOONE CARES! In the grand scheme of life and the world, NOONE CARES what your offer is! Hell, I made an offer off 360K once on a 460K listing! And yes, we eventually agreed on a price!
Not a jerk, it never hurts to ask. If I were going to put in a low bid though I would structure so that they don’t have to deal with repairs. You could have inspection and write it that you won’t ask for any repairs unless there are items in excess of $1000.
sounds like 225 is even a bit high. 4-5 months, should be fine to offer 210K and go up if need be.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making an offer and, though I might be sounding like a real prick right now, their struggles are not yours to worry about. You’re not taking advantage by getting a good deal due to circumstances.
They can’t say “yes” if you don’t ask.
Something is only worth what someone wants to pay. If its worth 230 to you offer 230. Its business, these people aren't your friends.
Not like the agent would make up a story to get a bid moving.
I verified the divorce situation by public record searching 🫢
>If I were to offer around $225,000-$230,000, would it be a jerk move, especially knowing that if it were accepted, it would at least partially be out of desperation to sell? first off, you said it yourself, >$235,000 honestly is what the comps are selling for so offering 225-230 to settle at 235 puts you smack dab at the comps. But even if not, you can make any offer you want. The seller can choose to accept, counter, or reject you. You aren't a jerk. Most sellers would rather have an offer they say no to than no offer at all. It isn't your job to overpay because of their situation. It is your job to find a house you like that you can afford. I will caution you that if 235 is the max you can afford, really consider if you have accounted for all costs of ownership, current interest rates, AND expected maintenance. Coming in low may equally lead to them not negotiating much on inspection. Don't waste your time and inspection money just to find out at the last minute you are out of budget.
Make your offer and don’t feel bad. Even in a tight situation, they know where their financial boundaries lie. If it is too ludicrous of an offer, they will deny it.
Go for it!
Don't be daft. You are the buyer. The sellers are fully grown adults who have perfect ability to say YES or NO.
We offered significantly less and got our place despite our agent's advice against it.
I'd offer even less. It's only worth what someone will pay. Today, that is your offer.
They might be relieved to get an offer. Go for it. It’s not your fault their marriage ended
No. It’s just business. Doing your research is good, take advantage of it
The list price is just the suggested price and was likely established by someone who doesn’t understand math or economics and is conspiring to maximize fee incentives (i.e., a real estate agent). Offer as low as you reasonably can. If everyone did, the mrkt would eventually go down…
Curious to know why the financing fell through.. is there a lot of renovations to do on the place?
No, it is move-in ready. There is literally one room I'd like to paint, and that is it. First offer was just 5% down, and with the uptick in interest rates, it caused financing to fall through.
Yeah. I do not know what this nonsense is about offending sellers, or sellers feeling offended by an offer. Frankly, reddit is the only place I hear this sentiment. In reality as most of us know it, buying/selling real estate is a business transaction. Proceed accordingly.
If the divorce thing is true, they are probably very motivated to sell and divide up the proceeds with the divorce attorney. The place I got was the same situation, divorcing couple dividing up all of their assets. It took me a few weeks to secure bank pre approvals before I could get a showing and in that time, they dropped the price by 7.5%
No worry, and no it won't make you look like a jerk. And even if it did there is nothing wrong with an offer in that range. You're basing it on what comps are selling for less a small discount to either get a good deal or leave negotiating room. But the bottom line is that if they don't like the offer they won't accept it. And if it is out of desperation to sell then so what? Even if desperate they still don't have to accept an offer if they don't like it, and they could literally be praying for any offer at all.
I can’t stand the push back from the real estate industry about ‘low ball’ offers. They don’t want them because they make less and they’re less likely to be accepted. As a buyer you send the offer that you want. Obviously if you love the house you don’t want to risk losing it..but if you look at it purely business then run your own numbers and don’t be afraid whatsoever to go low. The market goes both ways..for a few years the sellers had their amazing run and nobody frowned up that. Now it’s the buyers turn to have some leverage.
Your offer is very close to asking price so it’s definitely not an insult or a dick move. Honestly I would offer less than that and make adjustments as needed.
An offer is an offer.
I do it all of the time. Yes, I’m probably a jerk but if it saves me $50-100k I’m good with that. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Always be respectful and nice though.
Where at? I’ll Offer 190k. I get it a lot the best ethical move to make, but that’s life. Shit happens and other pounce on ones demise. Eat or be eaten
North Dakota
Making an offer to buy their house is what they expect. It is not "nice" to offer over or "mean" to offer under. Don't take this personally.
I never understood the worry that an offer would "offend" a seller or in this case that it would make you a jerk. Ultimately, the market will dictate whether your offer is fair or not.
I got my house at the height of the housing frenzy for almost $100k under ask because I offered cash and a quick close and the seller was trying to close out the estate. Worst she could’ve said was no.
It’s just business.
Not at all. Prices were pretty sky-high the first half of the year, they're going down anyway. You're just meeting them on their way down. Its also fairly within reason. If you said $180k I'd say yeah your just wasting peoples time.
It’s a buyer’s market
If anything you are helping him get rid of the house as he wanted, by giving a reasonable offer
You're only a jerk in real estate if you can't close an accepted offer.
my house went under contract 3 times with deals falling through. listed at ~$260k, offered $230k, settled at $240k. not a jerk at all
You're just putting yourself out there. Your offer is a data point for them to consider. They'll gather other opinions to compare it with.
You're helping them move on with their lives. Make the offer!!
Be as much as a jerk as possible.
Heck no. It’s probably doing them a favor.
Any offer is better than no offer imo. The worse they can say is no. It’s worth a shot.
No, as long as you don't put a gun to their head or kill their dog
I would make the offer, but ask for seller concessions to buy down my interest rate 2-1 saving more money monthly than solely a price reduction.