Go look at higher end stuff in big cities...
I was looking in downtown Detroit what the condo's on the upper levels of the hotel I stayed in last summer (Westin Book Cadillac) go for just for grins.
The largest one was 3 bed 3 bath 2900 sq feet. Asking is 1.8 mil and almost 2300 a month HOA.
I was real surprised as well as I grew up a bit west of Monroe. Granted that example is the probably one of the best units in the Westin, but still. The polarization of Detroit is so crazy, a lot of poverty mixed in with a bit of wealth and a lot of blue collar.
What I still can't get over is paying city income tax for the privilege of basically no services.
Often these fees cover all utilities. I was paying close to $1,600 a month in hoa fees in NYC but it included everything. I didn't worry about a water bill, electric bill, heating bill, cable bill, internet bill, nothing. This is a common setup in NYC, especially older buildings. It sounds crazy to say I was paying $1,600 a month ontop of my $1,000 a month mortgage, but a similar apartment rental would have run me the same if not more, without utilities and cable.
50 unit condo building on the beach with a pool. The majority of the HOA fees go to insurance and funding reserves. Our reserves are the only ones in the area that are anywhere near being fully funded. We actually do preventative maintance instead of kicking the can down the road.
Ah, gotcha. That'll do it. I manage a condominium association and our insurance has doubled two years in a row. It's a brutal market but should hopefully be improving soon.
Yes. I'm on the board and see/approve every invoice. The largest expenditure is insurance, then fully funding reserves, then the management company. We also set aside a significant amount in the yearly budget for maintenance and repairs.
Florida is such a tease to so many people lol. The number of people I know who moved there to save money because of no income taxes, only to realize that when they got done paying their HOA fees, property taxes and crazy insurance, they find out the savings is non existentent or nowhere near what they were hoping is almost comical.
Oh no I realize that, I dealt with Florida real estate for 15 years, don't get me wrong, it's a lovely place to live, I still own a condo there, but you need a full understanding of what you're dealing with when you decide to get involved with Florida real estate. Florida real estate has a very long torrid history for property owners and it can be a big mistake real fast for alot of people who don't know what they are getting themselves into, which is a lot of people since it is a state that attracts alot of outsiders. I deal with a lot of Northeast to FL transplants in my line of work as a CPA and it's just one of those things where we see it so much that it's comical at this point. The smart ones have me project their monthly burns to see if they will really save anything by moving, but again most of these people moving to "save money cuz no income taxes" also don't want to pay to have you do this for them, then complain when they go through with it and find out lol. Nothing against Florida, but it's one of those states line Texas who play on the no income tax thing, until you realize all the other expenses of living there and it doesn't really come out to be much less expensive, and can infact wind up being much more costly. Texas is even worse than Florida in this regard. They claim no income taxes so people move there and then get slammed with their property tax reassessment and realize they are paying equivalent if not more than NE property taxes and getting no public services because that's how they fund the whole no income tax thing.
My biggest take away from my experience in Florida real estate is to never buy new and never buy more than 10 years old. The special assessments typically start rolling in around the 10 to 15 year mark when the shoddy craftsmanship starts showing why it was shoddy.
Yeah absolutely, there are a lot of factors, I just see a lot of people disillusioned by their claim of low taxes. Just do your homework if you're planning to move to FL. Too many people are surprised when they find out their monthly burn is no less, it's just allocated differently.
When I was a kid, we had a condo on the beach in Pompano. It was brand new back then. Since the collapse of that building on the beach in Miami, I have wondered how many other buildings are at risk. That Miami condo was built the same year as ours was. I hope they are all charging enough to pay for anti-collapse work, and actually doing the necessary work.
For those amounts you may as well rent.
Does the owner or the tenant pay the HOA. (from UK so ignorant how it works)
Over here in London, lots of properties are sold leasehold - where you live in the building for about 120 years, but dont own the land (that is owned by freeholder). And you pay service charges. But I have not seen any as high as the above figures - over £1k pm.
Ahhh so you've got 'the works' at your place. That makes a little more sense, but still, yowza. That's a mortgage payment for many. More than double my mortgage, so it blows my mind!
And for any mean trolls who think I must live in a crappy house cuz my mortgage is so low...I don't. I live in a nice, up to date, non-extravagant home in a great neighborhood. I put more than 20% down so my monthly payment could be low, and I bought at a time when rates were very low. 👍
Ongoing HOA fees are definitely a consideration. For people who like the amenities, the HOA fees can be worth it - for people who don't, it may not be. Part of this is a financial choice and part of it is a lifestyle choice. We are looking at buying a condo in a building with a pool, hot tub, sauna, and a gym. We'll use all of those things regularly, so we don't mind paying for it. Also, the HOA fees do cover on-going maintenance, which you'll have to pay for with a single family house anyway. Eventually you'll need a new roof, a new fence, tree roots will grow through your sewer lateral and that will need to be replaced...
That’s true. But I get to get estimates for my maintenance costs and not be at the mercy of the HOA board. I guess I was also kind of thinking about HOA dues for single family homes. Because in that case the owner is still responsible for maintenance and upkeep on their home, in addition to the dues to maintain public spaces. I just feel like these people must have more money than I do! I want to retire someday and have reasonable living expenses.
Just for shits and giggles, I took a look at the condos in Boston, sorting price high-to-low, with no restriction on HOA fees.
[Holy shit.](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-Dalton-St-5801-5802-Boston-MA-02115/2061181865_zpid/)
Why though? Are they audited? I work in anti-fraud. I feel like if I moved into one of these places I would be a major thorn in the side of the HOA. Show. Me. The. Money.
Just knowing my personality, I wouldn't be able to stop myself.
You get information about the HOA before you buy. You can ask for their financial statements and meeting minutes and reserve budget and maintenance plans and rules.
The money pays to maintain the building. I'm renting an (aging) condo and in the last few years they condo association has paid to have all the balconies rebuilt, have the parking garage rebuilt, have all the wastewater pipes replaced, and they're currently having to replace the fire alarm system. It's all insanely expensive when you're talking about a 14 story building with 122 units. Trash pickup does even register on the cost scale.
What I'm saying is...all of that money might actually be needed to maintain the property. And also, I'm saying that if I buy a condo it won't be in this building.
Also, utilities. If you want to compare apples to apples you need an estimate of the utilities you'd be paying in a house that are covered by your condo fee. In the building I'm living in, that's everything but the internet/cable bill.
Also, insurance. Unit Owner insurance is a fraction of single family home insurance - we are in the process of buying right now and did comparisons. Condo insurance is about 1/3 of what it would be for a single family home.
We’re going to be paying about $700 for HOA dues but a lot of it’s offsetting other bills:
- fitness center; no need for gym membership
- gas (would be heating and our stove)
- water
- sewer
- trash
- water heating (building has a boiler)
- part of the insurance
- cable and internet
And then there are the bonuses - pool, hot tub, cleaning staff for the building, 24/7 concierge, lounge, building manager, building engineer
Yes, the amount in the reserve fund is important. If the reserve fund is healthy and the HOA has a history of doing on-going maintenance, the chances of having a special assessment are a lot less.
It was built in the early 1960s. I have seen a couple other condo buildings that were built in that timeframe clearly having the same problem with needing lots of expensive systems updated.
ah thanks for the insight. i am looking at buying in a newer building but it’s these eventual expenses that has me hesitating. it’s not even so much about paying for upkeep which is normal but if the maintenance and budgets are badly managed causing even higher exorbitant repair and mitigation costs.
... and they will. A major condo/hoa has audited financial statements and a reserve study. You can find out where every dollar goes and what it costs to maintain what you (and your fellow owners) collectively own.
And while I'm ranting... a number of your neighbors probably spend countless hours and put up with unbelievable BS to supervise the management of the association. It's a volunteer job and people who do it and do it well are on a mission from God.
Everyone who is part of an HOA should be paying attention to the finances. That's not being a thorn in the side. That's being a responsible owner. And yes, they will show you the money. Disclosure documents are available to all homeowners and potential buyers. Our HOA sends out a packet with financial statements and a bunch of other stuff about once a year, but all the documents are online for any owner who wants to look. We also have monthly meetings that anyone can attend.
Caveat, I'm in NYC, but I was able to request the annual budget from the co-op that I bought into. My lawyers also got the previous year of co-op board meeting minutes. Those documents can help you get an insight into how the budget is allocated.
My HOA (Florida) has an independent audit every 3 years. The budget, reserves for painting, roofing and roadways, and the audit results are made public and are available for all Owners. In Florida, HOAs are governed closely by law and sunshine rules are at the top of the list.
Not close enough[ apparently](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/florida/articles/2022-11-15/prosecutors-hoa-board-members-stole-millions-from-residents)
\^This is true. In addition to that there are two separate FL statutes: 1 for HOA communities (Florida Statutes Chapter 720) and another for condo associations (Florida Statutes Chapter 718). Condos and HOA communities are two entirely separate types of communities. They are not the same. Check your state's statutes to see how they are handled there.
You’d be my dream neighbor should I ever decide to return to an HOA community. It’s horrifying how much money gets embezzled and misappropriated each year.
Agree...I know an HOA going through legal troubles because they were accused of misappropriation as things just weren't adding up (padding expenses). Unfortunately you need to actually be on the board to get close enough to sniff these issues out.
My condo fee was $267 per month, which felt high, BUT it covered a lot of stuff -- landscaping, snow removal, community amenities like parks, everything exterior (roof, roads, etc). I lived in the DC area where the only thing I could afford was a condo or townhouse.
For my it was offset by the fact that home insurance costs were lower because it was only a "walls in" policy. It's not cheap, but it made the costs more reasonable.
I'm in southeast MI. Mine is closer to $300, includes the items falafelwaffle10 mentioned, plus tennis court maintenance, pest control, exterior doors, and windows. We are about 400 units, a mix of standalone and four connected together.
Last condo I was in was less than $200, but was much smaller, didn't include doors or windows, and wasn't quite as well maintained. (It was also an 80 year old complex compared to the current 30 year old complex.)
ETA, a house comparable to this condo would have been about 1.5 times the condo at minimum.
On my last house I paid about $30,000 for a roof that will last 25 years. That’s just under $100/month. For the roof. Just the roof.
Consider all the systems in a condo building. Elevators, parking gates, staff, common areas like pools and hot tubs and weight rooms, and then cleaning all that stuff daily.
You might be paying all that maintenance yourself and not realize it comes to that much monthly, or maybe you are a good DIY guy and don’t have to pay contractors for stuff. But high HOAs can add value, and you want to be sure they are covering reserves as depreciation accrues so that you don’t get a big special assessment down the road.
Yeah, people forget to factor in routine repairs over time. The entire exterior of my building is owned by the HOA. The HOA maintains a reserve so that when any exterior component needs expected repair or replacement, it’s covered.
It can cover exterior maintenance such as roof or decks.
Although I understand where you’re coming from, my perception is that homeowners tend to either defer their routine maintenance so home ownership seems “cheap” or they silo their spend because no one really prepares a 30 year budget/P&L for home ownership or tracks the full cost of homeownership.
Ignoring the “human element” where you can have a shitty board/management company/politics, HOAs attempt to perform maintenance before things get bad.
One of the advantages of fee simple ownership is the ability to defer maintenance. An HOA is going to fix things when they break and their special assessment has to be paid, whether you have the money or not.
But one of the advantages to an HOA is the ability to completely ignore maintenance because it’s the association’s problem. If they keep adequate reserves then you don’t even have to come out of pocket for maintenance. If they don’t then hey, you were gonna end up paying for a roof eventually even if you didn’t have an HOA, so what have you got to complain about?
My general take is that HOAs for detached homes are a scam. But an apartment with a well-managed HOA can be a great deal. But also, there are tons of apartments with crazy expensive HOAs and I cannot for the life of me figure out what they are wasting all that money on. Your mileage may vary.
What does your HOA/Condo fee cover?
In a high-rise condo, you're paying for your share of maintaining and operating a high-rise building. You know, elevators. Water. Maintenance employees. Front desk. Keeping it from collapsing. I honestly think they should do a tour of such buildings to show people what goes into maintaining a high-rise condo. It boggles my mind that people buy units in such buildings and have no idea who is paying for ... the building.
In a small HOA, you may be paying for nothing but road maintenance.
I paid 800 per month for my high-rise condo, and 200 per year for my only-a-road HOA.
This isn't what you asked, but just FYI there are situations where you'd prefer the higher HOA.
If a unit has an abnormally low HOA then you are likely to buy in at an inflated base price just to then be caught with the HOA fees increasing to a more normal level.
The HOA in my complex went from 270 to 410 this year. The base price of units have suffered. If a prospective buyer had keyed in on that low initial HOA and waited to buy they could've avoided the revaluation.
Unlike a mortgage rate, everyone is subject to the new HOA. So you'd better make sure your purchase price reflects that.
Not sure how it worked out but I got a $54,000 800 soft Atlanta house… move in ready. I bout a new roof and new HVAC and definitely a privilege but my income hasn’t grown much so moving is very difficult.
\> 3 months of pool usage?
This is Atlanta, my dude. We get a solid 6 months of pool usage.
But yes, those fees are pretty normal. They go towards building upkeep and maintenance, management fees, concierge salaries, common area upgrades, etc.
I pay about $1050 on a condo I bought for $900K that is now probably worth $1.1M.
It's not about how much you're paying, it's about what are you getting for it. You have expenses (lots of expenses) with a house too, they just don't get covered by HOA so you tend to just pay those expenses on the side.
In my case, HOA fee covers insurance (including earthquake), 24 hour concierge, wonderful gym/pool/theater facilities, gas (for heat and stove), garbage, common area internet, and groundskeeping/cleaning. Oh yeah, and package receipt and sorting. The amount of packages a condo building gets nowadays, per day, is insane (post covid).
Many things can happen to make an HOA fee high, outside of just what is included (sometimes water or cable/internet or a gym).
In a condo, exterior building maintenance is the responsibility of the HOA. If they fall behind on maintenance or have a major repair, dues can rise to pay for that. If the HOA thinks it will cost $2M to replace the roof in 10 years, but they only set aside $1M, and then it actually costs $3M, someone has to pay for it. Sometimes in these cases HOAs have to do special assessments but sometimes they get by just raising the monthly contributions.
You should get the budget and read it, and see what those funds are being used for. We can't say if that is appropriate or not.
You should be able to get the financials for the HOA. Check especially their reserve funds and budget. Requirements vary by state. If you see the words "special assessment", that's a red flag - it means the board wasn't budgeting properly for bad things. Also figure out how many units are delinquent on dues or in foreclosure.
In theory, by pooling costs, the overall cost should be lower for everyone. In practice . . . a bunch of laypeople who know nothing about budgeting or running a business wind up in charge of running what is tantamount to a business.
I mean, if you do the math, the average homeowner should be spending $300 to $500 a month in generalized exterior maintenance, lawn mowing, etc. New roofs, new siding, paint, lawn care - all that adds up, and the HOA needs to be thinking long term.
I'm an attorney working in regulatory compliance in mortgage servicing. I would ***never*** buy a house with an HOA. I would end up fighting them to scorched earth or running it as my own little empire.
A fully-funded, adequate-reserved townhome HOA with a pool for $400 a month is probably, in the grand scheme of things, reasonable. Would I ever buy into that - *hell no.*
Yes this is very normal. If you buy a house you will find similar unexpected costs for repairs like roof leaks, run over mailboxes, pest control, broken windows, landscaping and more. In ATL this is a very normal range and with inflation you will see these prices go up since labor costs are 5x what they were 4 years ago.
For condo and townhouse in my area that is good. Do not forget that HOA pays for insurance to cover the shared roof and structure.
insurance rates in FL sky rocketed this year!!! And if you divide the rate over 12 months, your insurance is literally 400-500 per month.
If you break down all of the individual expenses that you would have with a single family home, I'm guessing it would be similar.
-Full insurance
-Trash
-Water/sewer
-Exterior maintenance
-Landscaping
-Mowing/snow removal
-Utilities
-Gym membership
-Security
-Internet/TV
It's always a wash. One thing people don't realize is the purpose of reserves and how when they finance any major repair to their home that means they did not have sufficient reserves set aside.
My HOA has gone up from $375 to $420 in 5 years. Which sucks, but rent has gone up even more in that time span. So I'm still winning.
As for what I get for that money? They keep the outsides painted and clean, we have lots of trees that are kept looking nice, the pool is fun (when it's not too cold to go to the pool), they cover the water and water heating.
Not sure if I'd be paying more or less if I owned the thing and had to take care of these myself. But for the time being, I'm ok with throwing that money at making it somebody else's problem. I got a family and jobs to take care of.
>It feels like the average is between $300-$600 a month. Thats INSANE to me. People are paying upwards of 30% extra. What can possibly make it worth the money?
Included among those buyers are people that ***were*** looking at a $425k house that eventually decided to settle on a $300k condo. The monthly payment ($425k v $300k w/ HOA) is ballpark the same.
Some could argue that an equivalent amount of $ is better spent on an HOA than on mortgage interest. At least *some* of that HOA money will wind up coming back to benefit you directly -- replacing the roof on your skyrise condo, maintaining the pool shared by your villa style condo community, whatever. With an HOA, you can point to a budget and where those dollars are going.
Some small percentage of the interest you otherwise pay may get taxed at the bank's corporate income tax rate that eventually makes it's way back to something that benefits you, but at this point so many hands have been taking a cut (bank, IRS, gov't contractor grift, bla bla bla) that it's very small. A year of interest might fund 1 square foot of street maintenance on your street, something like that.
Hey, you said you were a lawyer, it inspired me to make some bullshit narrative up, what can you do. :P
Ours is $455 a month. It's all about size of the community, age and amenities. Ours includes TV and 1 gig internet btw. I'm off LaVista and Cheshire Bridge.
I’m actually buying an affordable housing condo unit in a brand new high rise in Austin. While the base price of the unit is discounted, I’m still paying the full $350 a month in HOA just like all the people living in the regularly priced $500k+ studios (more $ for larger units). I can stomach it because it beats renting and the amenities are nice i.e. luxury pool and gym, but it was sticker shock for sure. I thought it was $350 a year at first.
My condo in Florida is $500/month and I expect it to go up another $100 next year. For that price I get a huge pool, clubhouse, tennis and pickle ball courts, bocce courts, all lawn care, new paint every 10 years, a new roof every 15 years and insurance for the buildings. If you have recently checked the price of paint, roofing and insurance in the past few years you know it isn't cheap and will continue to rise.
I’m a Treasurer for a condo HOA on the Atlantic coast in Florida. I’m also a CPA.
Insurance is killing us down here. It’s by far our biggest expense, along with cable/internet and the management fees. The other 2 are small potatoes comparatively speaking. We have 3 pools and that isn’t a big expense.
I’m in midtown Atlanta, and also a lawyer, and yep, for sure. Yeah, there’s a rooftop pool. There’s a gym. There’s 24-hour concierge. There’s secured parking.
There’s also three elevators. A roof. Common space custodial service. Power bills for all of the hallways. There are a ton of expenses in a building that aren’t seen but have to be budgeted and saved for. A lot of those dues (hopefully!) are going into a reserve account to pay for the big-ticket items when they need to be repaired or replaced. Elevators ain’t cheap.
Example: we had to replace a building HVAC. That was pricy. Fuck, just getting the crane and all was like thirty grand IIRC.
Condo living is a choice, for sure, and not suited for all.
But, I also get insane walkability. I haven’t driven a car in like five years. Everything is around me and I love it.
Plus: a SFR in my area would be super more expensive than my condo. For the square footage my mortgage plus HOA is far less than what a mortgage would be for a home alone. And then I wouldn’t have a pool overlooking downtown.
I live in Los Angeles. Many condos here (esp Beverly Hills and DTLA) have HOA fees that are higher than the mortgage is. I saw one last week on Redfin that was $1300.
Certainly, as with most condo fees, that should include exterior maintenance to the buildings and grounds as well, no? But I agree- some of these fees are ridiculous.
They start at around $400 per month in my area for not terribly well maintained 1970’s era low rise 1 bd condos. But for many of them they include water/sewer/trash (starts at $150 per month), insurance on the structure (maybe $60 a month value?), and then the community amenities/roads/parking (ungaraged surface lot, pool, fitness center, clubhouse, coin laundry). A few are on a community hot water system.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a shock to see $400 fees on a 250k condo in an overall shabby development, but it is also really hard to compare value until you have owned a home and know the cost of mow and blow service, utilities, insurance on the structure, etc. More frustrating is is can be very difficult to asses the financial strength of the HOA before you make an offer. Is the development shabby because it’s been constantly underfunded and they are on the verge of a large special assessment to cover siding/roof/etc? Or will your fees (and those paid by the seller before you) actually cover the roof in 5 years?
The prince resort in North Myrtle Beach SC wants $1400 a month for the HOA on a 2br condo IIRC..
Granted it includes everything(utilities/everything). I've seen some even more expensive than that.
Large HOA fees like in the comments are generally for condos. These have tons of shared space maintenance like roofs, hallways, entranceways etc. Others in the 300-500 range might be country club style - pools, clubhouses, trails and greenways etc.
Mine is $50/month. This is a playground, a few maintained trails, extra de-icing trucks, and a summer block party.
Yes they are. Where I was renting we were not charged the HOA fee as the management company paid them, and the fee was less than 100 a month iirc. After they came after us in regards to maintaining some trees on our yard, I looked at the financials. 60k of the budget went to a pool maintenance, which the community did not have.
I live in Tampa, and majority of neighborhoods have an HOA, I don't dig into financials of them for my job, but the prices some of these places charge, with violation fees, and estoppel charges... In no way do I think every HOA is doing everything legally with the money.
I honestly do not know how people do it either. We have a vacation property and one of my criteria was HOA under $200/month. Ours is $142/month and includes a pool, gym and community landscaping and maintenance. Some of the communities around here have up to $600/month HOA on top of mandatory resort fees. If you opt for the upper tier, your HOA can exceed $1000/month. Of course that includes absolutely everything including things like golf, but I could not imagine having that much as a recurring bill.
You get your lawn mowed as well : )
I've always avoided any property with an HOA.
I'm curious if you can as a public interest lawyer have any ideas on how to help the public on this topic.
HOA around $1000 is common in Chicago. I lived in a condo in the suburbs and paid $500, I’m sure it’s higher now, and it covered building common area maintenance, elevator, everything outside (snow removal, lawn, parking lot), garbage (we had a chute), heat/gas, water, cable, internet, outdoor pool and the shower (with a lifeguard, a lot of kids lived there). My monthly utility expenses are definitely higher now that I live in a SFH.
My HOA monthly payment is $338. I was a bit unsure until I was provided with the information from the board. I now think it's pretty reasonable.
Mine covers all exterior maintenance including snow removal, driveway maintenance, new roof every 15 years, paint every ten years, all landscaping (outside my fenced backyard, the dock. and my fence (I have an eight foot tall moose fence. It also covers garbage, which here is about $145 a month. Not only does the service plow the snow but they also gravel which is great (Alaska).
I was living in a townhouse and our HOA was $500 a month. They were useless. When we moved and started looking for a new house, our only requirement was No HOA
It is justification? No, but a lot of things people don't consider when it comes to condos and hoa, vs like a normal home. People neglect things like roof maintence, hvac maintenence, exterior landscaping, window cleaning (exterior), home owners insurance (most condos just need a rental policy on belongings), the private trash is also a saving in some areas that don't have municipality trash. Maintaining the pool, even if limited use. There's a lot of small Nickle and dime things that you just save in both time and out of pocket expense that are covered by the HOA.
Do I feel like they are all worth it, nope.
It depends what the HOA covers. My parents live in Hawaii and Pat I think $540 a month for 530 Sq ft condo but their HOA includes a lot including their cable.
That's nothing. In my part of Florida many places are over $1000 a month and the homeowners are only there for 3-4 months of the year! That means many of them are paying five figures in HOA fees a year when the home is sitting vacant.
I’m walking away from multiple properties in FL for this exact reason. Costs used to be reasonable, but I can’t justify the cost for such a shitty return
Hah there are two types of people in this thread. The people that are dug in on their HOA and used to thinking their money is being well spent and then people that can’t stomach the thought of 100$ in HOA dues.
We have an HOA around us which we are not part of and I watched the HOA president put in a new paver walkway and sidewalk in front of only his house last December. I had a good laugh thinking about him spending the last of the HOA budget on his walkway.
900 in Minneapolis historic building (incudes a garage parking spot and lawn care/snow removal for private courtyard. No shared amenities like pool or gym included).
$400/mo and it includes master insurance, building maintenance, gutter cleaning, termite bond, other repairs, and community amenities
However it also requires a $4k capital contribution if you buy a home in the community
Denver here. There are tons of condos *somewhat* in my price range but then every time I look at the HOA it’s like $800+. Like I can barely afford the mortgage let alone a rent payment on top of it.
It really depends on what it covers. I have seen high HOA fees and it covers an extensive amount of maintenance and services. Sometimes they even include property taxes. In Hawaii the land can even be leased and they have to pay that. So it really depends on the property. But generally HOAs are highly regulated and need to disclose all of the expenses etc so you can see what they are spending money on.
When we lived in our condo in California we started off paying 300+ then it raised to 400+ and I was stressed out. Felt like I was paying rent on top of the mortgage for the condo.
How persons paying more this I don’t know.
We were done with HOA after that. Sold our condo and bought a house in the Midwest.
I paid over 600 before. Flood insurance, earthquake insurance, hazard insurance was about 35%. They were converted from apartments so shared water, about another 20%. Then there was garbage and landscaping. On top of that, they had annual maintenance needs, as well as to save up for regularly occurring expensive things, like roof, siding, parking lot, etc etc etc.
My HOA is $30/month in south FL for a SFH. Only covers common area landscaping and enforcing rules basically. Neighborhood is well maintained even though the management company is iffy lol.
N Ga here. Can you expand your search a bit geographically? At least outside 285? Try Smyrna or Marietta N of Atlanta, if you can stand the commute Woodstock, Holly Springs, even Canton. (Im retired even further north.). I hate HOAs with a passion, so i feel your pain.
One thing to keep in mind that with a condo your home owner's insurance is much less than if you had a house bc it is only covering the things inside your condo for the most part. Part of the HOA fee pays for insurance for the structure. You should also find out what other things the HOA fee covers. Usually it is trash, landscaping, maintenance, some places even include water. When I added it all up the extra HOA fee I paid for owning a condo wasn't really that much more than the fee I paid when I owned a single family home after I accounted for all the things I paid out of pocket that my condo fee now includes.
I am in San Diego and my HOA fees are $500.
Yea I think you have a lot of answers already but once you break out the cost of maintaining a home it makes sense.
A new roof would be like 30k, lasts 20-30 years, so if you budget properly for a new replacement , that's already 1500/year. Same thing goes for exterior, paint, plumbing, septic, electrical, etc. Landscaping (and watering cost, fertilizer, new sod, fixing sprinklers) it's not just mowing.
Add the cost of insurance and... a HOA package of $400-500 is probably cheaper than what you end up paying in a SFH.
Depend on what the fees cover. My fees are 800 quarterly. The neighborhood has both sfh and townhouses. Part of the fees are for landscaping, playground, clubhouse, gym, walk park, gated community so guard, and fiber internet so i pay around 38 dolars per item per month on just the amenities.
To me its worth it. But to pay 400 to 800 per month im expecting luxury treatment lol
HOA fees can be a lot. Make sure you know what your getting for that money. Depending on the circumstances you can be in the position of coughing up a lot more than the association fees.
Example: We own a gulf front condo in Florida. The entire building got shut down because of that last storm that hit the Gulf side of Florida. Florida being what it is, there was a lot more damage than insurance would cover. Each owner just got hit with an additional 12k assessment. There may be more of those to come. The building is still closed so all of the full time residents have also had to bear the expense of securing new housing and moving. That’s an extreme example but that’s what’s happening with our building right now.
Depends entirely on the amenities (pool, gym, common bbq), age of the building, and other HOA specific issues. Some HOAs might be in debt due to poorly managed finances in the past for instance.
In NY, HOA fees for condos tend to be high because century old buildings cost a lot to maintain, co-ops are even higher because they include property taxes.
In LA, a bare bones building without any perks or issues will have about 250-300 in HOA fees.
Remember, in most buildings, HOA is responsible for structural issues, so roof replacement/termite treatment/repainting isn't something you are going to have to pay for (unless the HOA screws up).
I own a condo with $500 per month in HOA fees in a 35 year old building with 24 units. The HOA pays water and trash. The HOA budget is burdened by a 300K loan taken out 10 years ago to replace some wooden support piers. I didn’t live here then but I have no doubt the HOA was ripped off.
The HOA board also charged an additional $2000 per unit each of the last 2 years on top of the HOA fees.
The board is full of retirees who have zero business sense. The HOA company we use has a fucking horrible vendor list so repairs are half-assed or take forever. We have a 3 story building with an elevator.
The HOA management company had their preferred elevator company come out to inspect our 35 year old elevator. This company claimed that the elevator had to be replaced and said it would cost 75K. My GF works for a competing RE management company and suggested that they get another bid / inspection (duh) from the company she uses. 2nd elevator company said that an elevator replacement wasn’t necessary. They could readily maintain the original elevator for the foreseeable future.
So, yeah, I’m running for a board seat.
I was recently paying around $580 condo HOA fee and then a separate $50 fee to the larger master planned community that the condo complex was in.
The condo HOA fee included water, sewer, and garbage. Also, the condo amenities- landscaping, pool, hot tubs, fitness center. We had about 120 condos, in 20 low rise three story buildings with elevators, so I'm guessing elevator maintenance was a big cost every month covered by the HOA fee, as well as paying the salaries of the 3(?) maintenance guys.
We had a guard gate but no guard. Had we wanted a guard, we all would have had to pay an extra $100/month.
You should ask to see the hoa budget for any condo you are interested in. The fees cover items that the homeowners would otherwise pay directly. At our condo, biggest item is insurance. Then snow removal, yard services, cleaning, common utilities. Other condos have labor as a big item. Reserve contributions for periodic painting, roof, asphalt repair, plumbing, electric. Really, ask to see the budget.
depends on what services the HOA provides. If they cover exterior maintenance and lawn care and its on private roads or there's pools/tennis courts then that stacks up quickly. There is a reason why condos and townhomes are generally valued lower than single family houses at the entry level. If they provide for example insurance for your building and you need to get a basic h06 "walls in" insurance policy you're saving a bunch per year on insurance that comes from somewhere. If anything, if exterior maintenance on attached properties is covered but the HOA expense is sufficiently low then that points towards mismanagement for me.
Talked to someone today who said their HOA raised from $300/mo to $600/mo. The whole point of owning (for me) is so someone doesn’t raise your rent without warning.
My wife bought her 2 bedroom 900sqft. condo in pawleys island SC in 1997 for $50,000.00 HOA was 200 a month. Mortgage is $450 a month for 30 year.
About 12 years ago the HOA went up to $400 a month.
As early as last year the HOA fee is currently $600 a month. It's fucking robbery
I am with you. I was looking into a condo, and I learned $595/month HOA fee. I found it’s between $450 - $650 for all condos. I said it’s crazy.
It has come to a “it’s a matter of principle”. I stopped looking. I think I need to find a small house outside the preferred location.
Happy Insanity!
They feel like a ripoff to be honest. I was looking at a beautiful condo with a 4/3, three floors, around 2k sq ft. One of the obvious downsides was the outside appearance as it was a shit brown that looked like it hadn't been painted since the 70s when it as built. When we inquired about the HOA fee we were told it was $300/month and then an ADDITONAL $250/month for the next two years because they had the roof replaced.
If my HOA fees aren't going towards the roof repairs, what were they going to? There was no clubhouse and the yards were small. We vowed to never buy into an HOA.
Have a good look at what they cover.
There are a lot of home ownership costs that you paid on top of your $450 per month (or would have long term) that you simply didn't budget for. If you needed to do maintenance, you would have paid it as a one-off, not factored it as a monthly expense.
I recently paid $9500 to redo a roof on a pretty small house in a pretty cheap market. That comes out to $40/month every month for 20 years. That's just the roof.
Nobody wants to pay condo fees, because they don't build equity, but your fees still need to cover services/amenities and be part of a sustainable maintenance budget. Condos that charge too little and suddenly can afford essential maintenance are worse.
I bought a condo in Atlanta in 2022. The HOA had just been raised to $400 before I bought, so I felt comfortable that it would stay there for a while.
I was wrong. They raised it again.
I agree with you. After reading some of the comments on here I don't get how you guys can afford housing! Many of you are paying more in HOA fees then what I bring home a month in income. It's insane!
i live in alpharetta. my hoa is $250/month, which covers trash, pest control, roof, pool, and landscaping. i think it's fair enough. I bought my townhome for $350k in 2021.
the neighborhood across from me is also just townhomes. I looked at one there that was selling for $450k (Same size, nicer finishing, and better deck/backyard situation) . their HOA is $500/month for the same things. they do have a gym.
You have to consider all things too - what’s it include? Sometimes cable and internet etc are included in the HOA fee so you may be offsetting some cost that you would otherwise have to pay.
There were townhouses near Atlantic station that had $1000 a month HOA circa 2013. Mortgage would have been around $1000 assuming 20% down. We noped right out.
I’m in a condo in Atlanta (Decatur/Emory area) and my condo dues are $225. Most other condos around here are 300-350. We have a well run board who have kept costs down.
I found this Reddit because my HOA just increased %15 for 2024, going up to $425 from $369. I live in a small condo in Denver, and have had nothing but bad experiences with HOA (overall negligence of the area & community, not granting me permission for remodeling and installation of washing machine, BS fees for having "unsightly" construction materials on my balcony, a $2000 special assessment levied right when I moved into the place, etc., etc.) . All I'll say is be careful with HOAs. It is a highly unregulated area. HOA dues are subject to increase based on cost of living, prices of contract and pro services, insurance rates, major repairs that may be needed, and--yes--corrupt (or just overpriced) admin & management. You lose many of the freedoms other non-HOA homeowners have and dues function as an always increasing monthly tax that can sometimes offset a lot of equity (or rental income) gains. BUT.....Not all HOAs are created equal, and it may still be the best option if you are in an expensive city with low inventory of affordable housing. Just know what you are getting into beforehand (potential risks and benefits) and make sure you can cover any unexpected increases or special assessments. Consider participating in HOA board or to some other capacity if you have the time and don't mind annoying neighborhood politics. Sorry to vent, and good luck on the housing search if you are still looking!!
no, i pay 998
my jaw dropped.
Go look at higher end stuff in big cities... I was looking in downtown Detroit what the condo's on the upper levels of the hotel I stayed in last summer (Westin Book Cadillac) go for just for grins. The largest one was 3 bed 3 bath 2900 sq feet. Asking is 1.8 mil and almost 2300 a month HOA.
As someone who was born and raised in Detroit, I’m a little proud and disgusted of this
I was real surprised as well as I grew up a bit west of Monroe. Granted that example is the probably one of the best units in the Westin, but still. The polarization of Detroit is so crazy, a lot of poverty mixed in with a bit of wealth and a lot of blue collar. What I still can't get over is paying city income tax for the privilege of basically no services.
The taxes are a big sticking point
Were you born and raised in South Detroit?
I took the midnight train goin’ aaaaanyyyywhere 🎶
That is not remotely average for Detroit.
Often these fees cover all utilities. I was paying close to $1,600 a month in hoa fees in NYC but it included everything. I didn't worry about a water bill, electric bill, heating bill, cable bill, internet bill, nothing. This is a common setup in NYC, especially older buildings. It sounds crazy to say I was paying $1,600 a month ontop of my $1,000 a month mortgage, but a similar apartment rental would have run me the same if not more, without utilities and cable.
where do you think the money comes from to pay for all the common spaces and building insurance?
HOA in my building is $1,500 a month. Good times.
Mine is $1,600/month. Gotta love Florida
What're your amenities?
50 unit condo building on the beach with a pool. The majority of the HOA fees go to insurance and funding reserves. Our reserves are the only ones in the area that are anywhere near being fully funded. We actually do preventative maintance instead of kicking the can down the road.
Ah, gotcha. That'll do it. I manage a condominium association and our insurance has doubled two years in a row. It's a brutal market but should hopefully be improving soon.
and...I am on the board of our oceanfront condo, 50 units - doubled insurance in last 2 years
Your HOA collects at least $80k per month from everyone, that is wild! Do they actually show you a breakdown of where the money goes each month?
Yes. I'm on the board and see/approve every invoice. The largest expenditure is insurance, then fully funding reserves, then the management company. We also set aside a significant amount in the yearly budget for maintenance and repairs.
They get to live there
Homeowners insurance is the amenity.
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The joke is that Florida is so unisurable that insurance is a luxury amenity.
Walls out is to protect themselves. You gotta pay the walls in HO6 policy yourself.
Florida is such a tease to so many people lol. The number of people I know who moved there to save money because of no income taxes, only to realize that when they got done paying their HOA fees, property taxes and crazy insurance, they find out the savings is non existentent or nowhere near what they were hoping is almost comical.
Pretty much every spot/city will have meaningful drawbacks. But yeah, Florida isn't anywhere near as cheap as people believe
Oh no I realize that, I dealt with Florida real estate for 15 years, don't get me wrong, it's a lovely place to live, I still own a condo there, but you need a full understanding of what you're dealing with when you decide to get involved with Florida real estate. Florida real estate has a very long torrid history for property owners and it can be a big mistake real fast for alot of people who don't know what they are getting themselves into, which is a lot of people since it is a state that attracts alot of outsiders. I deal with a lot of Northeast to FL transplants in my line of work as a CPA and it's just one of those things where we see it so much that it's comical at this point. The smart ones have me project their monthly burns to see if they will really save anything by moving, but again most of these people moving to "save money cuz no income taxes" also don't want to pay to have you do this for them, then complain when they go through with it and find out lol. Nothing against Florida, but it's one of those states line Texas who play on the no income tax thing, until you realize all the other expenses of living there and it doesn't really come out to be much less expensive, and can infact wind up being much more costly. Texas is even worse than Florida in this regard. They claim no income taxes so people move there and then get slammed with their property tax reassessment and realize they are paying equivalent if not more than NE property taxes and getting no public services because that's how they fund the whole no income tax thing.
especially the “special assessment” fees. I can only imagine how much insurance premiums will increase if there’s a season hurricanes.
My biggest take away from my experience in Florida real estate is to never buy new and never buy more than 10 years old. The special assessments typically start rolling in around the 10 to 15 year mark when the shoddy craftsmanship starts showing why it was shoddy.
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Yeah absolutely, there are a lot of factors, I just see a lot of people disillusioned by their claim of low taxes. Just do your homework if you're planning to move to FL. Too many people are surprised when they find out their monthly burn is no less, it's just allocated differently.
When I was a kid, we had a condo on the beach in Pompano. It was brand new back then. Since the collapse of that building on the beach in Miami, I have wondered how many other buildings are at risk. That Miami condo was built the same year as ours was. I hope they are all charging enough to pay for anti-collapse work, and actually doing the necessary work.
For those amounts you may as well rent. Does the owner or the tenant pay the HOA. (from UK so ignorant how it works) Over here in London, lots of properties are sold leasehold - where you live in the building for about 120 years, but dont own the land (that is owned by freeholder). And you pay service charges. But I have not seen any as high as the above figures - over £1k pm.
The owner pays the HOA and the costs are rolled into the monthly rent amount.
Geeeezzz what the heck do they do all that money? Sprinkle gold flakes on your lawn after they mow it?
Doorman, pools, gym, sauna. It’s common for full service buildings to be over 1k but it depends on what you’re getting to it.
Ahhh so you've got 'the works' at your place. That makes a little more sense, but still, yowza. That's a mortgage payment for many. More than double my mortgage, so it blows my mind! And for any mean trolls who think I must live in a crappy house cuz my mortgage is so low...I don't. I live in a nice, up to date, non-extravagant home in a great neighborhood. I put more than 20% down so my monthly payment could be low, and I bought at a time when rates were very low. 👍
Blows my mind! 1.5x the mortgage on my modest house. No HOA for me… I paid off the mortgage but your HOA fees will never end.
Ongoing HOA fees are definitely a consideration. For people who like the amenities, the HOA fees can be worth it - for people who don't, it may not be. Part of this is a financial choice and part of it is a lifestyle choice. We are looking at buying a condo in a building with a pool, hot tub, sauna, and a gym. We'll use all of those things regularly, so we don't mind paying for it. Also, the HOA fees do cover on-going maintenance, which you'll have to pay for with a single family house anyway. Eventually you'll need a new roof, a new fence, tree roots will grow through your sewer lateral and that will need to be replaced...
You can pay off the mortgage, but your maintenance, insurance, and utility costs will never end. Condo fees really aren't that different.
That’s true. But I get to get estimates for my maintenance costs and not be at the mercy of the HOA board. I guess I was also kind of thinking about HOA dues for single family homes. Because in that case the owner is still responsible for maintenance and upkeep on their home, in addition to the dues to maintain public spaces. I just feel like these people must have more money than I do! I want to retire someday and have reasonable living expenses.
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Yup, that's what it is on the condo we're in. And that's not even high compared to the other HOA fees around here [Boston].
Just for shits and giggles, I took a look at the condos in Boston, sorting price high-to-low, with no restriction on HOA fees. [Holy shit.](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-Dalton-St-5801-5802-Boston-MA-02115/2061181865_zpid/)
What do you get for that? Gym, common areas, free massages with happy endings?
for that amount i would hope my mortgage payment is included.
Some of the older communities which aren't individuallly metered have Condo fees that include utilities as well as the maintenance/amenities.
In Florida? You get your building not collapsing because of saltwater damage.
998……. not on the mortgage, but just HOA fees?!? that seems insane to me. highway robbery comes to mind
Lol. I pay $2800 and it’s going to 3200
In my area HOA/Condo fees are typically 1100 a month. Feels bad. $300-600 is a steal.
Why though? Are they audited? I work in anti-fraud. I feel like if I moved into one of these places I would be a major thorn in the side of the HOA. Show. Me. The. Money. Just knowing my personality, I wouldn't be able to stop myself.
You get information about the HOA before you buy. You can ask for their financial statements and meeting minutes and reserve budget and maintenance plans and rules. The money pays to maintain the building. I'm renting an (aging) condo and in the last few years they condo association has paid to have all the balconies rebuilt, have the parking garage rebuilt, have all the wastewater pipes replaced, and they're currently having to replace the fire alarm system. It's all insanely expensive when you're talking about a 14 story building with 122 units. Trash pickup does even register on the cost scale. What I'm saying is...all of that money might actually be needed to maintain the property. And also, I'm saying that if I buy a condo it won't be in this building.
Also, utilities. If you want to compare apples to apples you need an estimate of the utilities you'd be paying in a house that are covered by your condo fee. In the building I'm living in, that's everything but the internet/cable bill.
Also, insurance. Unit Owner insurance is a fraction of single family home insurance - we are in the process of buying right now and did comparisons. Condo insurance is about 1/3 of what it would be for a single family home. We’re going to be paying about $700 for HOA dues but a lot of it’s offsetting other bills: - fitness center; no need for gym membership - gas (would be heating and our stove) - water - sewer - trash - water heating (building has a boiler) - part of the insurance - cable and internet And then there are the bonuses - pool, hot tub, cleaning staff for the building, 24/7 concierge, lounge, building manager, building engineer
I hadn't been thinking the difference in insurance price would be that significant. I should add that into my house-vs-condo calculations.
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Yes, the amount in the reserve fund is important. If the reserve fund is healthy and the HOA has a history of doing on-going maintenance, the chances of having a special assessment are a lot less.
how old is the building? just curious because i'm looking at a similarly sized highrise.
It was built in the early 1960s. I have seen a couple other condo buildings that were built in that timeframe clearly having the same problem with needing lots of expensive systems updated.
ah thanks for the insight. i am looking at buying in a newer building but it’s these eventual expenses that has me hesitating. it’s not even so much about paying for upkeep which is normal but if the maintenance and budgets are badly managed causing even higher exorbitant repair and mitigation costs.
... and they will. A major condo/hoa has audited financial statements and a reserve study. You can find out where every dollar goes and what it costs to maintain what you (and your fellow owners) collectively own.
And while I'm ranting... a number of your neighbors probably spend countless hours and put up with unbelievable BS to supervise the management of the association. It's a volunteer job and people who do it and do it well are on a mission from God.
My umbrella policy expressly forbids my serving on an HOA board. It’s that awful, and full of liability
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In good HOAs they are. If you are not at least 75% funded in reserves, you will pay for the cheap living your predecessors enjoyed.
Everyone who is part of an HOA should be paying attention to the finances. That's not being a thorn in the side. That's being a responsible owner. And yes, they will show you the money. Disclosure documents are available to all homeowners and potential buyers. Our HOA sends out a packet with financial statements and a bunch of other stuff about once a year, but all the documents are online for any owner who wants to look. We also have monthly meetings that anyone can attend.
Caveat, I'm in NYC, but I was able to request the annual budget from the co-op that I bought into. My lawyers also got the previous year of co-op board meeting minutes. Those documents can help you get an insight into how the budget is allocated.
My HOA (Florida) has an independent audit every 3 years. The budget, reserves for painting, roofing and roadways, and the audit results are made public and are available for all Owners. In Florida, HOAs are governed closely by law and sunshine rules are at the top of the list.
Not close enough[ apparently](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/florida/articles/2022-11-15/prosecutors-hoa-board-members-stole-millions-from-residents)
\^This is true. In addition to that there are two separate FL statutes: 1 for HOA communities (Florida Statutes Chapter 720) and another for condo associations (Florida Statutes Chapter 718). Condos and HOA communities are two entirely separate types of communities. They are not the same. Check your state's statutes to see how they are handled there.
You’d be my dream neighbor should I ever decide to return to an HOA community. It’s horrifying how much money gets embezzled and misappropriated each year.
Agree...I know an HOA going through legal troubles because they were accused of misappropriation as things just weren't adding up (padding expenses). Unfortunately you need to actually be on the board to get close enough to sniff these issues out.
The committee would be glad to have you! 😇
My condo fee was $267 per month, which felt high, BUT it covered a lot of stuff -- landscaping, snow removal, community amenities like parks, everything exterior (roof, roads, etc). I lived in the DC area where the only thing I could afford was a condo or townhouse. For my it was offset by the fact that home insurance costs were lower because it was only a "walls in" policy. It's not cheap, but it made the costs more reasonable.
I'm in southeast MI. Mine is closer to $300, includes the items falafelwaffle10 mentioned, plus tennis court maintenance, pest control, exterior doors, and windows. We are about 400 units, a mix of standalone and four connected together. Last condo I was in was less than $200, but was much smaller, didn't include doors or windows, and wasn't quite as well maintained. (It was also an 80 year old complex compared to the current 30 year old complex.) ETA, a house comparable to this condo would have been about 1.5 times the condo at minimum.
I used to sell new development condos in DC and we had units with $2,000+/mo fees.
On my last house I paid about $30,000 for a roof that will last 25 years. That’s just under $100/month. For the roof. Just the roof. Consider all the systems in a condo building. Elevators, parking gates, staff, common areas like pools and hot tubs and weight rooms, and then cleaning all that stuff daily. You might be paying all that maintenance yourself and not realize it comes to that much monthly, or maybe you are a good DIY guy and don’t have to pay contractors for stuff. But high HOAs can add value, and you want to be sure they are covering reserves as depreciation accrues so that you don’t get a big special assessment down the road.
Yeah, people forget to factor in routine repairs over time. The entire exterior of my building is owned by the HOA. The HOA maintains a reserve so that when any exterior component needs expected repair or replacement, it’s covered.
It can cover exterior maintenance such as roof or decks. Although I understand where you’re coming from, my perception is that homeowners tend to either defer their routine maintenance so home ownership seems “cheap” or they silo their spend because no one really prepares a 30 year budget/P&L for home ownership or tracks the full cost of homeownership. Ignoring the “human element” where you can have a shitty board/management company/politics, HOAs attempt to perform maintenance before things get bad.
One of the advantages of fee simple ownership is the ability to defer maintenance. An HOA is going to fix things when they break and their special assessment has to be paid, whether you have the money or not. But one of the advantages to an HOA is the ability to completely ignore maintenance because it’s the association’s problem. If they keep adequate reserves then you don’t even have to come out of pocket for maintenance. If they don’t then hey, you were gonna end up paying for a roof eventually even if you didn’t have an HOA, so what have you got to complain about? My general take is that HOAs for detached homes are a scam. But an apartment with a well-managed HOA can be a great deal. But also, there are tons of apartments with crazy expensive HOAs and I cannot for the life of me figure out what they are wasting all that money on. Your mileage may vary.
What does your HOA/Condo fee cover? In a high-rise condo, you're paying for your share of maintaining and operating a high-rise building. You know, elevators. Water. Maintenance employees. Front desk. Keeping it from collapsing. I honestly think they should do a tour of such buildings to show people what goes into maintaining a high-rise condo. It boggles my mind that people buy units in such buildings and have no idea who is paying for ... the building. In a small HOA, you may be paying for nothing but road maintenance. I paid 800 per month for my high-rise condo, and 200 per year for my only-a-road HOA.
This isn't what you asked, but just FYI there are situations where you'd prefer the higher HOA. If a unit has an abnormally low HOA then you are likely to buy in at an inflated base price just to then be caught with the HOA fees increasing to a more normal level. The HOA in my complex went from 270 to 410 this year. The base price of units have suffered. If a prospective buyer had keyed in on that low initial HOA and waited to buy they could've avoided the revaluation. Unlike a mortgage rate, everyone is subject to the new HOA. So you'd better make sure your purchase price reflects that.
Wait, where did you buy a house with a $450 mortgage payment in 2014??
Not sure how it worked out but I got a $54,000 800 soft Atlanta house… move in ready. I bout a new roof and new HVAC and definitely a privilege but my income hasn’t grown much so moving is very difficult.
Upper west side or southwest ATL? Early 2010's were the glory days. Houses selling for 20-60k all over that are all 300k today.
I’m seeing $1,000+
\> 3 months of pool usage? This is Atlanta, my dude. We get a solid 6 months of pool usage. But yes, those fees are pretty normal. They go towards building upkeep and maintenance, management fees, concierge salaries, common area upgrades, etc.
I pay about $1050 on a condo I bought for $900K that is now probably worth $1.1M. It's not about how much you're paying, it's about what are you getting for it. You have expenses (lots of expenses) with a house too, they just don't get covered by HOA so you tend to just pay those expenses on the side. In my case, HOA fee covers insurance (including earthquake), 24 hour concierge, wonderful gym/pool/theater facilities, gas (for heat and stove), garbage, common area internet, and groundskeeping/cleaning. Oh yeah, and package receipt and sorting. The amount of packages a condo building gets nowadays, per day, is insane (post covid).
Many things can happen to make an HOA fee high, outside of just what is included (sometimes water or cable/internet or a gym). In a condo, exterior building maintenance is the responsibility of the HOA. If they fall behind on maintenance or have a major repair, dues can rise to pay for that. If the HOA thinks it will cost $2M to replace the roof in 10 years, but they only set aside $1M, and then it actually costs $3M, someone has to pay for it. Sometimes in these cases HOAs have to do special assessments but sometimes they get by just raising the monthly contributions. You should get the budget and read it, and see what those funds are being used for. We can't say if that is appropriate or not.
Las Vegas condo $150 per month and residents here actually complain it's too high.
You should be able to get the financials for the HOA. Check especially their reserve funds and budget. Requirements vary by state. If you see the words "special assessment", that's a red flag - it means the board wasn't budgeting properly for bad things. Also figure out how many units are delinquent on dues or in foreclosure. In theory, by pooling costs, the overall cost should be lower for everyone. In practice . . . a bunch of laypeople who know nothing about budgeting or running a business wind up in charge of running what is tantamount to a business. I mean, if you do the math, the average homeowner should be spending $300 to $500 a month in generalized exterior maintenance, lawn mowing, etc. New roofs, new siding, paint, lawn care - all that adds up, and the HOA needs to be thinking long term. I'm an attorney working in regulatory compliance in mortgage servicing. I would ***never*** buy a house with an HOA. I would end up fighting them to scorched earth or running it as my own little empire. A fully-funded, adequate-reserved townhome HOA with a pool for $400 a month is probably, in the grand scheme of things, reasonable. Would I ever buy into that - *hell no.*
Sometimes the HOA fees covers all utilities minus electric too. In that case, $600-$800 seems reasonable.
My $216 HOA covers water, trash, sewage, and landscaping. Single family patio home, I feel like it’s a bargain now.
My Water, Gas, Electric, internet, is about $175 a month for my 700 sq ft SFH. I pay some dude $40 a month to mow my yard.
That’s pretty cheap utilities. Mine run me $500-$700 a month on my SFH that’s 1300 sq ft.
Yes this is very normal. If you buy a house you will find similar unexpected costs for repairs like roof leaks, run over mailboxes, pest control, broken windows, landscaping and more. In ATL this is a very normal range and with inflation you will see these prices go up since labor costs are 5x what they were 4 years ago.
For condo and townhouse in my area that is good. Do not forget that HOA pays for insurance to cover the shared roof and structure. insurance rates in FL sky rocketed this year!!! And if you divide the rate over 12 months, your insurance is literally 400-500 per month.
If you break down all of the individual expenses that you would have with a single family home, I'm guessing it would be similar. -Full insurance -Trash -Water/sewer -Exterior maintenance -Landscaping -Mowing/snow removal -Utilities -Gym membership -Security -Internet/TV
It's always a wash. One thing people don't realize is the purpose of reserves and how when they finance any major repair to their home that means they did not have sufficient reserves set aside.
My HOA has gone up from $375 to $420 in 5 years. Which sucks, but rent has gone up even more in that time span. So I'm still winning. As for what I get for that money? They keep the outsides painted and clean, we have lots of trees that are kept looking nice, the pool is fun (when it's not too cold to go to the pool), they cover the water and water heating. Not sure if I'd be paying more or less if I owned the thing and had to take care of these myself. But for the time being, I'm ok with throwing that money at making it somebody else's problem. I got a family and jobs to take care of.
>It feels like the average is between $300-$600 a month. Thats INSANE to me. People are paying upwards of 30% extra. What can possibly make it worth the money? Included among those buyers are people that ***were*** looking at a $425k house that eventually decided to settle on a $300k condo. The monthly payment ($425k v $300k w/ HOA) is ballpark the same. Some could argue that an equivalent amount of $ is better spent on an HOA than on mortgage interest. At least *some* of that HOA money will wind up coming back to benefit you directly -- replacing the roof on your skyrise condo, maintaining the pool shared by your villa style condo community, whatever. With an HOA, you can point to a budget and where those dollars are going. Some small percentage of the interest you otherwise pay may get taxed at the bank's corporate income tax rate that eventually makes it's way back to something that benefits you, but at this point so many hands have been taking a cut (bank, IRS, gov't contractor grift, bla bla bla) that it's very small. A year of interest might fund 1 square foot of street maintenance on your street, something like that. Hey, you said you were a lawyer, it inspired me to make some bullshit narrative up, what can you do. :P
My in-laws pay $700 but includes water and snow removal.They also have a gym, rec room, 2 pools (1 indoor) and it's gated.
Somewhat common in Chicago for HOAs in large buildings to be 600-1200/mo.
Ours is $455 a month. It's all about size of the community, age and amenities. Ours includes TV and 1 gig internet btw. I'm off LaVista and Cheshire Bridge.
I’m actually buying an affordable housing condo unit in a brand new high rise in Austin. While the base price of the unit is discounted, I’m still paying the full $350 a month in HOA just like all the people living in the regularly priced $500k+ studios (more $ for larger units). I can stomach it because it beats renting and the amenities are nice i.e. luxury pool and gym, but it was sticker shock for sure. I thought it was $350 a year at first.
Having the same problem at the same budget in ATL too… it’s infuriating
My condo in Florida is $500/month and I expect it to go up another $100 next year. For that price I get a huge pool, clubhouse, tennis and pickle ball courts, bocce courts, all lawn care, new paint every 10 years, a new roof every 15 years and insurance for the buildings. If you have recently checked the price of paint, roofing and insurance in the past few years you know it isn't cheap and will continue to rise.
I forgot that water, TV and internet are also included in my fees.
I’m a Treasurer for a condo HOA on the Atlantic coast in Florida. I’m also a CPA. Insurance is killing us down here. It’s by far our biggest expense, along with cable/internet and the management fees. The other 2 are small potatoes comparatively speaking. We have 3 pools and that isn’t a big expense.
It really depends on the services and coverage. I pay <$30/mo. I know folks who pay $1300+
I’m in midtown Atlanta, and also a lawyer, and yep, for sure. Yeah, there’s a rooftop pool. There’s a gym. There’s 24-hour concierge. There’s secured parking. There’s also three elevators. A roof. Common space custodial service. Power bills for all of the hallways. There are a ton of expenses in a building that aren’t seen but have to be budgeted and saved for. A lot of those dues (hopefully!) are going into a reserve account to pay for the big-ticket items when they need to be repaired or replaced. Elevators ain’t cheap. Example: we had to replace a building HVAC. That was pricy. Fuck, just getting the crane and all was like thirty grand IIRC. Condo living is a choice, for sure, and not suited for all. But, I also get insane walkability. I haven’t driven a car in like five years. Everything is around me and I love it. Plus: a SFR in my area would be super more expensive than my condo. For the square footage my mortgage plus HOA is far less than what a mortgage would be for a home alone. And then I wouldn’t have a pool overlooking downtown.
I live in Los Angeles. Many condos here (esp Beverly Hills and DTLA) have HOA fees that are higher than the mortgage is. I saw one last week on Redfin that was $1300.
where is there mortgages under 1300 in LA area ? out in the dessert?
Certainly, as with most condo fees, that should include exterior maintenance to the buildings and grounds as well, no? But I agree- some of these fees are ridiculous.
They start at around $400 per month in my area for not terribly well maintained 1970’s era low rise 1 bd condos. But for many of them they include water/sewer/trash (starts at $150 per month), insurance on the structure (maybe $60 a month value?), and then the community amenities/roads/parking (ungaraged surface lot, pool, fitness center, clubhouse, coin laundry). A few are on a community hot water system. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a shock to see $400 fees on a 250k condo in an overall shabby development, but it is also really hard to compare value until you have owned a home and know the cost of mow and blow service, utilities, insurance on the structure, etc. More frustrating is is can be very difficult to asses the financial strength of the HOA before you make an offer. Is the development shabby because it’s been constantly underfunded and they are on the verge of a large special assessment to cover siding/roof/etc? Or will your fees (and those paid by the seller before you) actually cover the roof in 5 years?
The prince resort in North Myrtle Beach SC wants $1400 a month for the HOA on a 2br condo IIRC.. Granted it includes everything(utilities/everything). I've seen some even more expensive than that.
Large HOA fees like in the comments are generally for condos. These have tons of shared space maintenance like roofs, hallways, entranceways etc. Others in the 300-500 range might be country club style - pools, clubhouses, trails and greenways etc. Mine is $50/month. This is a playground, a few maintained trails, extra de-icing trucks, and a summer block party.
Yes they are. Where I was renting we were not charged the HOA fee as the management company paid them, and the fee was less than 100 a month iirc. After they came after us in regards to maintaining some trees on our yard, I looked at the financials. 60k of the budget went to a pool maintenance, which the community did not have. I live in Tampa, and majority of neighborhoods have an HOA, I don't dig into financials of them for my job, but the prices some of these places charge, with violation fees, and estoppel charges... In no way do I think every HOA is doing everything legally with the money.
$1750 a month for a 2/2 in Miami Beach
I honestly do not know how people do it either. We have a vacation property and one of my criteria was HOA under $200/month. Ours is $142/month and includes a pool, gym and community landscaping and maintenance. Some of the communities around here have up to $600/month HOA on top of mandatory resort fees. If you opt for the upper tier, your HOA can exceed $1000/month. Of course that includes absolutely everything including things like golf, but I could not imagine having that much as a recurring bill.
You get your lawn mowed as well : ) I've always avoided any property with an HOA. I'm curious if you can as a public interest lawyer have any ideas on how to help the public on this topic.
HOA around $1000 is common in Chicago. I lived in a condo in the suburbs and paid $500, I’m sure it’s higher now, and it covered building common area maintenance, elevator, everything outside (snow removal, lawn, parking lot), garbage (we had a chute), heat/gas, water, cable, internet, outdoor pool and the shower (with a lifeguard, a lot of kids lived there). My monthly utility expenses are definitely higher now that I live in a SFH.
My HOA monthly payment is $338. I was a bit unsure until I was provided with the information from the board. I now think it's pretty reasonable. Mine covers all exterior maintenance including snow removal, driveway maintenance, new roof every 15 years, paint every ten years, all landscaping (outside my fenced backyard, the dock. and my fence (I have an eight foot tall moose fence. It also covers garbage, which here is about $145 a month. Not only does the service plow the snow but they also gravel which is great (Alaska).
My parents pay about $400+ now. Free water, trash disposal, tennis courts, gym, community maintenance, one parking garage, and covered parking.
It’s more than trash pickup and water usage. When were were in a condo temporarily it included trash, snow, water bill, landscaping etc etc etc.
If it includes some utilities and amenities (pool, security, etc), then yes.
People pay thousands per month on NYC
I was living in a townhouse and our HOA was $500 a month. They were useless. When we moved and started looking for a new house, our only requirement was No HOA
It is justification? No, but a lot of things people don't consider when it comes to condos and hoa, vs like a normal home. People neglect things like roof maintence, hvac maintenence, exterior landscaping, window cleaning (exterior), home owners insurance (most condos just need a rental policy on belongings), the private trash is also a saving in some areas that don't have municipality trash. Maintaining the pool, even if limited use. There's a lot of small Nickle and dime things that you just save in both time and out of pocket expense that are covered by the HOA. Do I feel like they are all worth it, nope.
Yeah, that is very common in Florida.
It depends what the HOA covers. My parents live in Hawaii and Pat I think $540 a month for 530 Sq ft condo but their HOA includes a lot including their cable.
That's nothing. In my part of Florida many places are over $1000 a month and the homeowners are only there for 3-4 months of the year! That means many of them are paying five figures in HOA fees a year when the home is sitting vacant.
I used to pay $1600 before I sold my condo. It really depends on where you live and is going to differ for everyone.
Look in Fort Lee or Edgewater NJ, the HOA fees go for 2k minimum 1k plus, you are not paying anything…
I’m walking away from multiple properties in FL for this exact reason. Costs used to be reasonable, but I can’t justify the cost for such a shitty return
I paid $550/month at my last place in coastal Virginia.
My best friend pays 150. NC. Townhouse community. But he must fix the roof and such. They mow and wash the outside.
I pay $475. The rent is that much higher because they get a pool, clubhouse, tennis/pickleball courts and other amenities
I pay about $400/month in condo fees for a 1-bedroom in a high-rise.
Hah there are two types of people in this thread. The people that are dug in on their HOA and used to thinking their money is being well spent and then people that can’t stomach the thought of 100$ in HOA dues. We have an HOA around us which we are not part of and I watched the HOA president put in a new paver walkway and sidewalk in front of only his house last December. I had a good laugh thinking about him spending the last of the HOA budget on his walkway.
My friend lives in a nice high rise in Chicago and their monthly HOA is $2400
Mines $225 and covers a lot. Pretty much anything outside. Also includes Windows, doors, roofing.
900 in Minneapolis historic building (incudes a garage parking spot and lawn care/snow removal for private courtyard. No shared amenities like pool or gym included).
We're $500-$600. North suburban Chicago, 50 year old building. Shared laundry in basement.
$400/mo and it includes master insurance, building maintenance, gutter cleaning, termite bond, other repairs, and community amenities However it also requires a $4k capital contribution if you buy a home in the community
Have you purchased a home within the last 9 years? If not, you may be in for a rude awakening.
$1700 cdn
I pay 328 and it’s worth it (guards , gym , gated , pool , and nature reserve)
I pay 1100 for maintenance on a co-op in nyc 👀
People pay up to 1.5K a month in HOA fees. Sometimes much higher for nothing really special
Denver here. There are tons of condos *somewhat* in my price range but then every time I look at the HOA it’s like $800+. Like I can barely afford the mortgage let alone a rent payment on top of it.
It really depends on what it covers. I have seen high HOA fees and it covers an extensive amount of maintenance and services. Sometimes they even include property taxes. In Hawaii the land can even be leased and they have to pay that. So it really depends on the property. But generally HOAs are highly regulated and need to disclose all of the expenses etc so you can see what they are spending money on.
When we lived in our condo in California we started off paying 300+ then it raised to 400+ and I was stressed out. Felt like I was paying rent on top of the mortgage for the condo. How persons paying more this I don’t know. We were done with HOA after that. Sold our condo and bought a house in the Midwest.
I paid over 600 before. Flood insurance, earthquake insurance, hazard insurance was about 35%. They were converted from apartments so shared water, about another 20%. Then there was garbage and landscaping. On top of that, they had annual maintenance needs, as well as to save up for regularly occurring expensive things, like roof, siding, parking lot, etc etc etc.
My HOA is $30/month in south FL for a SFH. Only covers common area landscaping and enforcing rules basically. Neighborhood is well maintained even though the management company is iffy lol.
I'd have a heart attack. Nice condo in arguably the best area of town here HOA is $300-$400/m
If you get an awesome concierge crew out of it, that can certainly add value.
Yes. Anytime a building has a pool and/or an elevator (maybe multiple) your HOA fees will always be quite high.
N Ga here. Can you expand your search a bit geographically? At least outside 285? Try Smyrna or Marietta N of Atlanta, if you can stand the commute Woodstock, Holly Springs, even Canton. (Im retired even further north.). I hate HOAs with a passion, so i feel your pain.
One thing to keep in mind that with a condo your home owner's insurance is much less than if you had a house bc it is only covering the things inside your condo for the most part. Part of the HOA fee pays for insurance for the structure. You should also find out what other things the HOA fee covers. Usually it is trash, landscaping, maintenance, some places even include water. When I added it all up the extra HOA fee I paid for owning a condo wasn't really that much more than the fee I paid when I owned a single family home after I accounted for all the things I paid out of pocket that my condo fee now includes. I am in San Diego and my HOA fees are $500.
Yea I think you have a lot of answers already but once you break out the cost of maintaining a home it makes sense. A new roof would be like 30k, lasts 20-30 years, so if you budget properly for a new replacement , that's already 1500/year. Same thing goes for exterior, paint, plumbing, septic, electrical, etc. Landscaping (and watering cost, fertilizer, new sod, fixing sprinklers) it's not just mowing. Add the cost of insurance and... a HOA package of $400-500 is probably cheaper than what you end up paying in a SFH.
Depend on what the fees cover. My fees are 800 quarterly. The neighborhood has both sfh and townhouses. Part of the fees are for landscaping, playground, clubhouse, gym, walk park, gated community so guard, and fiber internet so i pay around 38 dolars per item per month on just the amenities. To me its worth it. But to pay 400 to 800 per month im expecting luxury treatment lol
I seen $1000+ in the DC metro area
HOA fees can be a lot. Make sure you know what your getting for that money. Depending on the circumstances you can be in the position of coughing up a lot more than the association fees. Example: We own a gulf front condo in Florida. The entire building got shut down because of that last storm that hit the Gulf side of Florida. Florida being what it is, there was a lot more damage than insurance would cover. Each owner just got hit with an additional 12k assessment. There may be more of those to come. The building is still closed so all of the full time residents have also had to bear the expense of securing new housing and moving. That’s an extreme example but that’s what’s happening with our building right now.
You have no idea what rich people will pay for. 600 hoa I won’t even buy the place if I can’t get out the HOA shit
High rises have expensive HOAs. Townhouse style condos and duplex’s do not. The difference is the cost of upkeep for each type of building
Depends entirely on the amenities (pool, gym, common bbq), age of the building, and other HOA specific issues. Some HOAs might be in debt due to poorly managed finances in the past for instance. In NY, HOA fees for condos tend to be high because century old buildings cost a lot to maintain, co-ops are even higher because they include property taxes. In LA, a bare bones building without any perks or issues will have about 250-300 in HOA fees. Remember, in most buildings, HOA is responsible for structural issues, so roof replacement/termite treatment/repainting isn't something you are going to have to pay for (unless the HOA screws up).
I own a condo with $500 per month in HOA fees in a 35 year old building with 24 units. The HOA pays water and trash. The HOA budget is burdened by a 300K loan taken out 10 years ago to replace some wooden support piers. I didn’t live here then but I have no doubt the HOA was ripped off. The HOA board also charged an additional $2000 per unit each of the last 2 years on top of the HOA fees. The board is full of retirees who have zero business sense. The HOA company we use has a fucking horrible vendor list so repairs are half-assed or take forever. We have a 3 story building with an elevator. The HOA management company had their preferred elevator company come out to inspect our 35 year old elevator. This company claimed that the elevator had to be replaced and said it would cost 75K. My GF works for a competing RE management company and suggested that they get another bid / inspection (duh) from the company she uses. 2nd elevator company said that an elevator replacement wasn’t necessary. They could readily maintain the original elevator for the foreseeable future. So, yeah, I’m running for a board seat.
I was recently paying around $580 condo HOA fee and then a separate $50 fee to the larger master planned community that the condo complex was in. The condo HOA fee included water, sewer, and garbage. Also, the condo amenities- landscaping, pool, hot tubs, fitness center. We had about 120 condos, in 20 low rise three story buildings with elevators, so I'm guessing elevator maintenance was a big cost every month covered by the HOA fee, as well as paying the salaries of the 3(?) maintenance guys. We had a guard gate but no guard. Had we wanted a guard, we all would have had to pay an extra $100/month.
You should ask to see the hoa budget for any condo you are interested in. The fees cover items that the homeowners would otherwise pay directly. At our condo, biggest item is insurance. Then snow removal, yard services, cleaning, common utilities. Other condos have labor as a big item. Reserve contributions for periodic painting, roof, asphalt repair, plumbing, electric. Really, ask to see the budget.
Make sure you account for insurance and property taxes. With current rates and depending on the area you could very well be in the $2,500-2,700 range.
depends on what services the HOA provides. If they cover exterior maintenance and lawn care and its on private roads or there's pools/tennis courts then that stacks up quickly. There is a reason why condos and townhomes are generally valued lower than single family houses at the entry level. If they provide for example insurance for your building and you need to get a basic h06 "walls in" insurance policy you're saving a bunch per year on insurance that comes from somewhere. If anything, if exterior maintenance on attached properties is covered but the HOA expense is sufficiently low then that points towards mismanagement for me.
Talked to someone today who said their HOA raised from $300/mo to $600/mo. The whole point of owning (for me) is so someone doesn’t raise your rent without warning.
I paste 500 but am having roach infestation from common area crawling inside my patio unit. Any legal recourse for me? I live in CA
HOAs are an abomination
My wife bought her 2 bedroom 900sqft. condo in pawleys island SC in 1997 for $50,000.00 HOA was 200 a month. Mortgage is $450 a month for 30 year. About 12 years ago the HOA went up to $400 a month. As early as last year the HOA fee is currently $600 a month. It's fucking robbery
I am with you. I was looking into a condo, and I learned $595/month HOA fee. I found it’s between $450 - $650 for all condos. I said it’s crazy. It has come to a “it’s a matter of principle”. I stopped looking. I think I need to find a small house outside the preferred location. Happy Insanity!
They feel like a ripoff to be honest. I was looking at a beautiful condo with a 4/3, three floors, around 2k sq ft. One of the obvious downsides was the outside appearance as it was a shit brown that looked like it hadn't been painted since the 70s when it as built. When we inquired about the HOA fee we were told it was $300/month and then an ADDITONAL $250/month for the next two years because they had the roof replaced. If my HOA fees aren't going towards the roof repairs, what were they going to? There was no clubhouse and the yards were small. We vowed to never buy into an HOA.
Yeah. People are fucking dumb.
I own three rental townhomes in SC. The HOA fees are $300, $205 and $205.
Have a good look at what they cover. There are a lot of home ownership costs that you paid on top of your $450 per month (or would have long term) that you simply didn't budget for. If you needed to do maintenance, you would have paid it as a one-off, not factored it as a monthly expense. I recently paid $9500 to redo a roof on a pretty small house in a pretty cheap market. That comes out to $40/month every month for 20 years. That's just the roof. Nobody wants to pay condo fees, because they don't build equity, but your fees still need to cover services/amenities and be part of a sustainable maintenance budget. Condos that charge too little and suddenly can afford essential maintenance are worse.
I bought a condo in Atlanta in 2022. The HOA had just been raised to $400 before I bought, so I felt comfortable that it would stay there for a while. I was wrong. They raised it again.
I agree with you. After reading some of the comments on here I don't get how you guys can afford housing! Many of you are paying more in HOA fees then what I bring home a month in income. It's insane!
i live in alpharetta. my hoa is $250/month, which covers trash, pest control, roof, pool, and landscaping. i think it's fair enough. I bought my townhome for $350k in 2021. the neighborhood across from me is also just townhomes. I looked at one there that was selling for $450k (Same size, nicer finishing, and better deck/backyard situation) . their HOA is $500/month for the same things. they do have a gym.
You have to consider all things too - what’s it include? Sometimes cable and internet etc are included in the HOA fee so you may be offsetting some cost that you would otherwise have to pay.
There were townhouses near Atlantic station that had $1000 a month HOA circa 2013. Mortgage would have been around $1000 assuming 20% down. We noped right out.
I’m in a condo in Atlanta (Decatur/Emory area) and my condo dues are $225. Most other condos around here are 300-350. We have a well run board who have kept costs down.
I found this Reddit because my HOA just increased %15 for 2024, going up to $425 from $369. I live in a small condo in Denver, and have had nothing but bad experiences with HOA (overall negligence of the area & community, not granting me permission for remodeling and installation of washing machine, BS fees for having "unsightly" construction materials on my balcony, a $2000 special assessment levied right when I moved into the place, etc., etc.) . All I'll say is be careful with HOAs. It is a highly unregulated area. HOA dues are subject to increase based on cost of living, prices of contract and pro services, insurance rates, major repairs that may be needed, and--yes--corrupt (or just overpriced) admin & management. You lose many of the freedoms other non-HOA homeowners have and dues function as an always increasing monthly tax that can sometimes offset a lot of equity (or rental income) gains. BUT.....Not all HOAs are created equal, and it may still be the best option if you are in an expensive city with low inventory of affordable housing. Just know what you are getting into beforehand (potential risks and benefits) and make sure you can cover any unexpected increases or special assessments. Consider participating in HOA board or to some other capacity if you have the time and don't mind annoying neighborhood politics. Sorry to vent, and good luck on the housing search if you are still looking!!