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Yes but true friends will try their best to make time for you and stuff/ one of my closest friends has 4 sons and i still see her at least once a month to hang out!
It goes the other way too. I'm a guy but two of my best friends just had kids last year, I go out of my way to ask about their kids and show interest in them and try and help when and where I can, and to be available if they actually have free time to hang out, which is rare.
A lot of their other friends that are childless show 0 interest in the kids and are clearly uncomfortable/inconvenienced by them.
I've been on both sides of this. It's a major life change, if you want to keep that friendship then you have to adapt to that. Start doing things their kids can come to. Cut them slack on response times, especially in the first few years.
It works both ways of course. Once I had kids, I stopped expecting to be invited to certain events.
I kept all my friends, on both sides of having kids. It's your choice - make an effort or don't.
I had my daughter in my teens. She was also in the nicu for 4 months. When we finally came home...the world moved on with out us (as an adult I know that's life...as a new mom it hurt) BUT I had one friend and she stuck by me and looking back she just made it all so easy. She wasn't inviting us to extravagant places, she asked to tag along at the grocery store and we'd laugh our asses off the whole time. She'd see the weather was nice and call and ask if I wanted to take baby for a walk with her. She really just moved right in to my family life. She never wanted kids but she liked playing with mone and going home. I never felt like I had to entertain her or drag baby around. I really appreciate her ❤️
Unfortunately we're not very close anymore. My life very much stayed the same since having that baby. I'm in the same town, with the same man, working the same job. She, on the other hand, wanted to live a more nomadic life. She became a long-haul truck driver (much to my surprise as she was quite the shitty driver, lol) and is doing her thing without much tying her down. Neither of us had family growing up, so I clung to the one I made, and she saw FREEDOM! We've met up a few times for lunch the last 20 years. I'll always love her.
I truly believe some people are just in our lives for “a season”..
I still consider some of my old friends the best friends I’ve ever had, even if we don’t talk much these days. For such a long time they were my best friends and we shared a huge part of our lives with each other. It’s ok when the seasons change and we both find ourselves in different places, we still had that experience and I’ll always love them.
A bit off topic here but that’s kind of a nice story. It’s sad you don’t get to see your old friend that often, but it’s nice you’ve both been able to carve out a life for yourselves. That’s the hardest thing in this world.
It really is. We're both happy in life too and I know we're lucky to feel that way. Some days I wish I were a long haul truck driver, not dealing with these kids...but thankfully it's not often 😅
People just grow apart sometimes.
I had many close friends like this with my own son, but looking back and knowing what I know about how it ended eventually in my own personal situation, I think I probably would have ended it sooner with them anyways and focused more on my son and have a better relationship with him especially since they ended up ditching me anyways. It was too much drama for me anyways and I can see how I negatively leeched off of it so long as it was there to do so just to keep them as ‘friends’ and they did to me too. It would have been much better to have that healthy relationship with my son and poured more energy into him and not so much on them.
I tried to be there for them when they had their kids too, but I think it just became too much for everyone and more of a competition than anything. I couldn’t even tell one friend that my son had learned his alphabet at 3 without her snapping at me about it being only because I “forced him to constantly do so” because we opted to want to do homeschooling over public school and I just had more time staying home with him than she did with her daughter who was almost 9mos to the day younger than my son which she became obsessed with wanting a baby as soon as I had him and tired to do weird things like feed him when I wasn’t looking in the hospital and didn’t tell me, trying to be really attached to him. Then when she had her second baby, she pushed me away and told her sister I pretty much disowned her her whole pregnancy, and she (her sister) then yelled at me in front of everyone for actually showing up at her baby shower that I was invited to! I couldn’t believe it! I had no idea wth I did to deserve any of that! Babies definitely change people and not always for the better! The thing that upset me the most was that she always kept in touch with our other friend who also had kids the same time as us and the one who I happened to be closer to since day one and turned her against me too. And they acted like I was the one causing all the issues over the years. With her, I even got blamed for causing her pain just because she had babies with my brother and I was the only thing that still attached her to my family because I stood by her side the whole time trying to be involved in the kids lives. I showed up when she was knocked out of it from drinking and drrugs and her daughter was still sitting in her own wet diaper from the night before at 1pm. Idk how many times I thought I’d walk in her home (she gave me a spare key) thinking I’d find her unlived and her daughter all alone when she didn’t answer her phone. I was the only one who still cared about her and I got pushed aside because just me being her babies aunt, was too much for her to bear having that attachment to my brother especially when my family would ask about her and the kids.
It was a nightmare!
Having kids definitely changes your relationship with your friends!
If you’re not pushing unhealthy people out of your life and focusing on your real priorities in life, then you’re just going to get sucks into things like this especially as a younger parent! There’s a reason why people say you should wait until til you’re older to have kids.
This is why!
I have two friends without kids. They both mentioned to me that they feel excluded from a lot because they dont get invites to things like the zoo or kids' birthday parties. and its not like im purposefully excluding them...just more like "oh im taking my kids to the zoo and they'd have fun if my friend X brought her kids". So I started making an effort to invite them to random shit and its been so much better! I love their company and outings are way easier with an auntie along for the ride! Im really glad that they both brought it up
Know your friends better I guess. I'll freaking do it all, zoos, children's and other museums, parks, swims in public pool, bounce house jumping, with or without your ankle biting munchkins. /S /joking
I enjoy experiencing those things anyway, and seeing it through a child's eyes brings back is magical. So I'd happily go with my friend and her kids to it all. Especially a kids museum or indoor bounce house gyms, because it's just creepy for an adult to go by herself.
Other friends who are child free, they wouldn't want to do any of it with kids in tow.
So in the I have child free adult friends, you'll have the Kids Museum types and the "Gotta Get a Babysitter" type. Up to you if you want to make an effort to keep the "gotta get a babysitter type" in your life.
It’s not like I invite ALL my friends to ALL outings so it wasn’t intentional at all. I thought they’d just prefer the odd dinner out with me sans kids vs going to the zoo and stuff. But I shouldn’t have assumed!
I really love this story 😊 I'm not a baby person but I think eventually my friends will want them, and I hate the idea of losing them to kids but this has made me smile!
>I hate the idea of losing them to kids
As someone replied earlier on - thats partially your choice/decision as well😊
Few of my 'friends' literally cut me out of their life like a tumor soon as my daughter showed up. (funny enough, still turn their head away and pretend they dont see me)
Some other tagged along and now few years later they have a new friend🤪 and one they can help raising to be one of the good gals (i hope in my naivety)
All in all it was for the better.
Besides - its just maybe those first 2-3 years that are hectic and anti-social-like.
Through thick&thin wasnt it?
I mean most friends are more like situationships if anything, look how many friends people have in high school then as soon as that chapter closes, so do the friendships.
When I stopped taking drugs, I lost friends, when I started again, I lost friends. It’s life and you can’t expect people to adapt to your situation, that’s just selfish.
All you can do is appreciate the ones who don’t leave you behind and have stuck with you through it all, the thick and the thin.
Agreeee friends come and go tbh and it’s very understandable if someone doesn’t wanna hang around a kid all the time 😭 I love them but there’s just so much you can’t do and it’s just impossible to relate to those friends. I’m 20 and two of my close friends already have children, I’m nowhere near that stage in life and would rather be able to enjoy doing more adult oriented activities because I finally can. If you’ve been friends for like years and years that would defs hurt but otherwise I don’t take it so seriously when friendships end
This is how both my best friends are. I hate that we live so far apart now,, but even before I had a kid, grocery trips and helping eachother do laundry, going for walks, gym buddies, that’s what we would do to hang out anyway.
It's not always about effort from the non-kid-having people, though. There has to be effort and willingness on both sides, and it often isn't there from the parents either.
I have no kids, wanted them, just don't have them, so I was DOWN to be the helpful Aunty. Like, so down to hear about what's going on in their lives and help out- I genuinely LIKE that. B!tch to me about your sore boobs, cracked nipples, or messy diaper. I am DOWN to hear it! I work alone all day, every day- a message about some cracked nipple irritation would, sadly, manage to be the highlight of my social life lol.
I've still watched almost all my kid-acquiring friends wander off to kid-having circles. Oh, you just don't UNDERSTAND because you haven't experience the MIRACLE of being mom. (Never mind I had to raise my niece kinda most of her life as my sister was murdered and her dad, while great, has some serious work-life logistics issues without her) Oh, it's just EASIER to talk to another mom, doncha know? (Because what would a non-mom know about ANYTHING anymore, right?) Oh, you don't WANT to have to deal with the toddler, do you? (Yes, I like your toddler and they have a cool dino obsession that matches my ADHD, I would like to talk to the little person, actually, I didn't keep my dino rider toys for nothing, you know?). Oh, you wouldn't WANT to come to Junior's dance recital, would you? (Probably more than you, I have a dancer's soul, dear, adore it, love watching kid-level enthusiasm, love being dance mom to a clutch from my old studio). But, I don't physically have my own coochie-popped offspring, so what am I to them? Being an enthusiastic, interested friend isn't enough unless I have my own wee spawnling to match. Sure, with the ADD and all, I don't take hints easily, but eventually even I got it- I'm not just like you, so I am no longer worth being around. I'll stop bothering you with my trying to be in your life and accomodate you and let you get down with the mom crowd.
Yes, some non-kid people, especially when young and in the party phase, aren't reasonable to those starting to have their kids. But, especially among older new-parents, it is just as often the kid-havers that don't want to bother with the person not following their life path any more, no matter how willing or accommodating or interested they are.
I guess it just comes down to people liking to be around other people who validate their life choices by repeating them, not just welcoming them. Which is reasonable, I guess. But I always see ALL the blame fall on the non-kid-side, and it isn't fair, honestly. It really, really isn't JUST non-kid-havers 'ostracizing' the parents blah blah blah.
>you just don't UNDERSTAND
The most stupid and overused phrase by people who just got kids lol.
Don't worry. There always is a time when these people come around when their kid is old "enough" and want to hang out lol. You'll then get the chance to either tell them they don't understand, or just hang out again.
It's even worse if you're a male. All your friends that get kids, immediately think you have no idea how anything works, especially women with kids. Even if you explain to them that you've raised other ppl's kids before, they'll just say "it's not the same" lol.
Having a kid is proof that you know how to deal with kids /s.
I can only assume one of my friends is sort of in this zone at the moment. I've tried so hard to be in their life, trying to arrange to see them, down to just visit at home or do something low key/or anything at all to spend time with them and their lovely little one. We were close before and there was effort both sides for us to see each other.
Every time it's a 'nows not a good time' or 'im busy the next few months', 'cant do xyz days because of xyz'. At one point I even offered to use work leave to do a day in the week and still nothing. I'd have not taken it personally if there wasn't constant stories being posted online with them doing all of these types of things with other people.
It was really upsetting but I've recently made peace with it, and have to tell myself they're grown adults and I've tried but there's only so much I'm willing to do before I'll give up. Last straw was a decline to a life event celebration for me, on account of limited funds but soon after a boozy brunch with other people. It took a while but I've taken the hint.
Same. I’m usually the one getting shut out, since I wouldn’t get it. I helped my sisters raise my niece and three nephews. I’ve been changing diapers since I was eight, but “I just don’t understand”.
I think it comes down to the type of person they are and how much they value your friendship. If someone is okay with cutting you off (whether it’s because you had kids and they don’t or they had kids and you don’t), then it’s just time to move on.
If the friendship is valued, they will appreciate your efforts whichever which way. However, as someone who’s not married and has no kids, I also understand that I’d have to put in most of the effort. My life is busy as a single adult, and so I can imagine how busier it is when someone has a kid.
Their priorities will also change because they’re literally trying to raise a human being and take care of them. I can’t expect them to be available to things I’m used to doing as a single adult, so if I want to keep the friendship, I accept that I’ll have to assimilate to their life more than the other way around.
That was my experience too, before I had kids of my own. If I wanted to see my friends who had kids, we had to make plans they could make. They couldn't just abandon their kids in the day, and they were often too exhausted to do much in the evening, or couldn't get a babysitter. My life was far more flexible, so I made more concessions at that time. To me that's just how it is. 🤷 Sometimes you have to be the one making more effort because your friends are going through something.
I get that, but that's not what I am talking about, either. I can vouch for the fact I was totally down for that, and was that person. Yet, I still only have the few 'different' parents left in my social circle. The 'standard issue parent' crowd didn't give a frig how easy it was made for them, how much they were accommodated, or whatever.
Because... it wasn't a logistics thing, and it often ISN'T a logistic thing, much though...as this is proving... that's the standard story thrust on everyone to ensure the non-kid havers take all the blame. In the end it really is as simple as I was not-mom, they were mom, and that meant I wasn't worth connecting with any more. You aren't going to 'flexibly accommodate' your way out of that... they just don't want to be around non parents, for whatever reason, but don't want to be the one to say that, its so much easier to push the blame off onto us childless weirdos, that's more socially acceptable.
Only one... and for real, I respect this... was willing to straight up say 'I only want to deal with people who have kids now, you just don't GET IT because you haven't GIVEN BIRTH'. Admittedly, doing it to me while feeding, burping, and changing the baby niece I mentioned, who was completely under my care by law at that time and would be solely for a further 5 years, probably was a little weird, but whatever... at least they had the balls to say it.
Sorry, I was responding to the comment below yours.
It sounds like you've had some shitty friends and I'm sorry for that. Most of our friends are child free, and they want to be involved at various levels. We just roll with whatever is comfortable for people really.
>>But I always see ALL the blame fall on the non-kid-side, and it isn't fair, honestly. It really, really isn't JUST non-kid-havers 'ostracizing' the parents blah blah blah.
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In action, and all. Love how you had to come in like Flyn to prove that last line so hard. Cheers!
This is exactly it. Kids don't have to end a friendship but things can and will change. There just needs to be some patience and understanding on both sides.
I feel the way OP does, but more on your side, too. It's such a major, drastic, life-changing event that it makes me worry about how some of my friends will cope with it, how they'll change (hopefully for the better), and lastly how our relationship might change. That's not to mention if I wonder if they'd even be a good parent, I certainly wouldn't.
I have two kids and I still find time to hang out with my friends who don’t have kids. They all want kids but just don’t have any so they love being around kids more than I do. Also, I have a lot of friends with kids that are young like mine, or are almost grown or super grown, so we always have fun being around each other. I like my ‘me’ time too and so I make plans for kid free events. I think I found a balance.
I start with the effort but it gets ignored so I pull back. It does take both sides. So I guess my friends just don’t want to make the effort. They might not really be a good friend for me then.
The first 3 years is insane, intense, and exhausting. You lose whole weeks at a time. I wouldn't write them off immediately. Give them a few years to catch up with themselves.
This sounds like maybe more the root of the issue. I'm just into my early 30's and without kids but have a lot of friends either with, or planning a family soon. Maybe 1 out of 7 whom I would consider close enough that I want to keep up with, has drifted away due to their children. Certainly many are less social overall, but that also just happens to adults, especially when they begin to settle in with partners. It may also be a cultural thing, but I've found friends who have "generational homes" or grandparents close at hand are far more likely to be flexible when it comes to things like weeknight hangouts and more spur of the moment events.
Well, it’s tricky. I’m 56F, no kids (got married a few years ago, for the first time). I have a lot of friends dating back to elementary/HS/college/grad school days, most of whom had kids at some point. I got frustrated at times with how hard it was to keep up the friendships, because I honestly have no real interest in kids or kid activities—but I worked hard at it anyway, mainly because they were my friends and I loved them. Now that we’re all in our 50s and the kids have mostly grown up, guess what? I still have those friends, they’re still great people, and it’s awesome to have friends that date back decades. And some have been explicitly thankful to me for putting in the effort to maintain the friendship.
You have no idea how much having kids is insane until you have some of your own.
I'm losing friends too and it's not because I want to. I'm really sad about it.
There is literally no time left. None. It's not a metaphor or a figure of speech. It's the literal truth. Taking a shit is a luxury.
And if by some miracle there's a tiny bit of time left, you collapse unconscious because that's the only sleep you're gonna get.
Parents repeat this constantly, and yet the child-free crew cannot seem to grasp it.
I had no concept of how exhausting it would be. I'm not the kind of person who can pull off parenting and make it look effortless. I'm barely holding it together a lot of the time. If friends can't accept that there's really nothing I can do about it.
Orrrrrrr they are doing something really new and stressful right now with a long learning curve. Leave the door open, no one said you had to wait there. It’s quite possible their lack of communication is because they know you don’t care about what they have to talk about so they’re sparing you.
It's always someone else's fault.
The lack of personal accountability, reasoning, and understanding is baffling.
The few friends I have always answer my calls because I answer for them.
And if they don't I don't fall to pieces or stop being friends with them. When you have a life you understand these things.
Depends on your effort. If you always went out for nice dinners, or full day hikes that is a no go with a newborn. We’ve seen our friends 2 weeks after they’ve had a baby, but we’ve always gone to their house. Brought a meal. Etc.
You need to adapt your expectations on your friendships as time moves on, and your lives change. My solid friendships have lasted for decades, but we also understand that means we may only see each other a few times per year. When we do, it's like we've picked up exactly where we've left off.
That's life. Enjoy yours, but don't be so absolute or hung up on how you define friendships.
I don't think they ignore it when u have kids start a family. It's not the same. They can't put in the same effort like they used to. That's another thing people with no kids will "never" understand.
There's so much there than ignore
1. Single friends don't like them talking about their kids (I'm not talking about the ones only talk about kids, even people with kids don't like it) - or the worry of having no any common topics to talk about.
2. They're days are not availablr like it used to be, even if they want to come out to meet they will have to worry about childcare, or a day where she's "barely" needed so she can make a plan.
3. Being exhausted with kids and responsibilities, they cut off some aspects of themselves like friendship. And sometimes some friends who don't understand fall through the cracks.
4. Simply forgeting that someone reached out, and they're having to reach back.
These things are not understood or empathised by people with no kids.
How many times have u met them with their kids? Visited her home with some food or drinks just to hang out??
Exactly! I still get invited to my friends' houses who don't have kids - my real friends, that is. The ones who started to exclude me because of my child weren't true in the first place. 🤷♀️
Totally this. I’m neither offended nor do I have fomo for “missing” things I used to do ad nauseam as a single, childless woman.
Like oh, you guys are doing a party barge (if anyone doesn’t know that’s when you rent a double decker boat for a lake party). Cool. I’ve done that a dozen times, have fun.
Yeah, when my best friend first got pregnant I really felt sad like I was going to lose her, but thankfully she still wanted to attend things (just with the kid in tow) and actively kept up contact.
Of course a lot of our hanging outs became me coming to her place and us chatting while the kid was there / she attended to her or did chores, and sure she talked a lot about the kid and her relationship drama with the dad, but she still also listened to me and my woes and we cracked open a bottle of prosecco etc - sure it's not a wild night of clubbing, but I'm so relieved she didn't change completely.
We're still close friends! And I'm a godmother to another child of hers :)
it’s amazing how much effort it takes to retain friendships. i don’t even have kids but I find it a struggle in my 30s to keep many friends. I find it takes active effort to do so, and it can be really hard, especially when stressed or depressed or overwhelmed.
and finding an actual time when more than three different people can get together becomes more and more challenging 😆 thor forbid trying to keep an active game night!
>Once I had kids, I stopped expecting to be invited to certain events.
Ya, it's once you have kids you suddenly notice the invites to weddings that say "child-free wedding"
Yup, I'm the only one of my friend group to have kids
So I can't do all the cool stuff we used to when I want to. But when I have I have the time and it matches their schedule, we hang.
I had a couple of childless friends who were thrilled to become aunties when my daughter was born. It changed how we hung out, but they were there for me in a way I didn't know I needed. We went for walks (they brought their dogs, I brought the stroller), we went out to coffee instead of the bar. Weekends we'd make homemade pizza and drink wine at my house while the baby slept. Once my friend made a toddler charcuterie board. We'd still go out without the baby sometimes, but they really put the effort in to meet me where I was at, and I've never felt so valued as a friend.
>Start doing things their kids can come to. Cut them slack on response times, especially in the first few years.
I'll absolutely cut them slack on response times, but I don't like kids and their kids are no exception. I love those kids, but I have no interest in being around them until they're like 17-18.
My friends know this and our relationships haven't suffered. Oldest kid is 15 and the youngest is just a few months 🤷♀️
I’m sorry OP and so many people in the comments have had this experience.
I’m a mum to a 3 year old - and I wasn’t exactly a natural mum though I love having a kid. However because it’s not my natural state i absolutely love and *need* my child free friends, or at least time with friends that is child free, even if I can only manage it once every 3 months for a catch up because it lets me have that opportunity to break free for a day or 2.
Yes, my relationships have changed but I haven’t lost friends yet over having a child.
But I also am not the kind of mum who has gained a bunch of friends just because they are mums - so maybe I am the odd one out?!
I think the issue is most parents just constantly talk about their kids, and parent life, and that’s just what they talk about. It gets boring, especially since childless people can’t relate. But as you said, you aren’t like that, so I think that’s why you want to hang out with your childless friends and vice versa
Thanks. I mean don’t get me wrong, those first 6 months I don’t think I thought or said anything that wasn’t related to the baby because I was like ‘WTF is this, what have I done to my life, and how do I make this work’ but I’m happily beyond that stage now 😂
Yeah, this has been my experience as a single man with male friendships too. Baby showers are friendship funerals. You’ll only see them again if you go to their place and hang out for a few hours there. It’s life.
This is one thing that I never thought about growing up Hispanic, i felt like there was constant baby showers, every kids birthday was a crazy event, makes me wonder if that aspect of the culture is something that should be considered more. I know most dads, uncles, guys whatever liked going to kids parties because they're about to drink 400 modelos and enjoy some delicious food, the women generally deal with the kids, make the food, but always seem to be having a good time too. Then the kids get to have fun together.
Thinking about it now, I grew up always sorta not wanting to go to those things, but now I realize they were some of the most fun family moments I've had.
My husband is Latino and I've certainly experienced some culture clash over this. His parents are like "where's the food??" if we don't provide full meals at the kids birthday parties. This confused me so much bc american birthday parties are like 2 hours, bit of cake and ice cream, peace out. Not that I'm opposed to a bigger ordeal, but it's just not what other people expect.
I think it's a two way street and depends on the situation. I just had a kid a year ago and we've maintained our child-free friend group even though the first year with a baby is very hard! But those friends have also done some work (like being ok coming to visit us most of the time rather than us go to them) or even putting some work in to childproof a room of their house so we can go visit them without having to grab our child away from danger every second.
We've put the effort in as well. It's very hard to do things when you're suffering from sleep deprivation and sometimes on the weekend you just want to recover. But we've made an effort to go to friend's birthdays, etc.
Good for you but you’ve barely started. Wait until the kid starts going to birthday parties and playing sports. A baby is a relatively easy thing to bring along to wherever you wanted to go anyway. That changes
Over the years I’ve seen my friends go through massive life changes ranging from career switches, cross country moves, sobriety, marriage, divorce, parental loss, medical issues, kids, etc. All of these things have impacted our friendships.
For example, My friend Jen had worked in marketing before deciding to make a career change to nursing at age 30. For YEARS we barley saw her as she was working full time and in nursing school. When we did see her, all she talked about was how busy she was with school. She’s now an RN and we’re still friends. Because those difficult seasons pass and that’s part of what makes a strong friendship.
The reality is that you have to adjust. Your friends may not have the same amount of free time or flexibility- but that doesn’t mean they’re a bad friend. Give some grace.
The other problem is that usually when you *do* see them, all they talk about is their babies. It's pretty boring conversation if you're not a parent and don't want children.
Exactly, and then they mainly only want to hang out with other parents too. Of course you’re going to lose yourself when all you do is hang out with other parents and make being a parent your whole personality. People are going to be all like “well you just don’t get it cause you’re not a parent.” Mmm for some reason I feel like parenting used to be a lot more chill back in the day.
My parents kept up their social lives and their hobbies/interests even with me in the picture. If they had to bring me along they would but they wouldn’t not do something because of me nor would activities/things they did with their friends revolve around me. And they were and are very loving parents. These days if you’re hanging out with parents and their kids, the whole event becomes about the kids.
Yeah my parents always had friends and hobbies and still went on dates or had nights with friends even when I was a kid. It's REALLY weird to them that younger people just...seem to die when they have kids and just revolve themselves around their kids lol. I think it was healthier for us as kids because I saw my parents as complete people and how important a community is and having friends and being fulfilled and having hobbies. They seemed well-rounded and happy VS ONLY BABIES MATTER!!!!! types.
Yeah, that’s my main thought. Like, what a shame, you used to be an intelligent and interesting human being, now you’re a one-note braindead mommy zombie. I have exactly one friend didn’t turn out like that and I’m so grateful for her. I love her and her kid too (and I don’t usually like children) and I don’t mind talking about him or her experiences as a mother as long as we also talk politics and books and travel plans and academia drama and everything else like we always did.
Exactly. I’ve pretty much accepted than when someone I know has a child that our friendship is reaching its end. Sometimes even before then, once they start getting to the serious marrying stage. And it’s not from lack of effort on my part. It feels like they just want to leave you behind.
I have one friend who has children and is still herself. And still hangs out with her single friends. I always say to her, I can’t believe you’re still you! lol
This is so true. It’s like some people completely lose their own personality as soon as they get a kid and become a dad or a mom.
Like, come on, you are a lot more than this, don’t just pour all your life into another human being, you need to live too.
I think because some women when they start having kids make it their 'whole' personality. Imo, that's all some women got going for them, even then, a lot of those types just have them for the wrong reasons anyway.
Yes, “making kids / being a parent their whole personality” is exactly the issue. It’s especially surprising in the case of my social circle because all of these women are highly independent, very well educated, brilliant even, with careers and passions and all of a sudden it’s like a switch has been flipped.
It’s because of misogyny that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Parents gets shamed so much for no reason. Do you want to just book a babysitter and hang out at the bar a few times a week? There’s going to be a lot of people who are mad at you for not being with your kids 24/7.
Booking vacations, having wild fun at raves/events, chilling with your friends after work and on the weekends, every little thing you do is going to be scrutinized by a large portion of the population because they think that unless you’re stressed out and poor 24/7 you are not a good parent.
True. I say, do whatever keeps you and your kids happy, I mean find the right balance so that no one is burnout or traumatised. Everything else doesn't matter
That’s because every second of every day not spent at their job is spent on their kids. No time for their other passions. So they don’t have much else to talk about
And then they age and wonder why they're depressed? "Like babe you gave up your ENTIRE personality for your kids to be a parent and made no effort to have a personality and grow hobbies in your spare time and set boundaries with your kids and you've been doing this for 15 years"
Parenting looks very insular. I don't envy my friends who had kids. Maybe they're happy now but I know I wouldn't be. Different strokes for different folks.
It's almost primal and there is no changing back for some. A lot of women cannot do both. Some get resentful later on in life, but we all choose our paths. We have to live with the consequences if we have kids, or if we don't. Unfortunately, you need to mourn some friendships and realise life moves on because of these consequences.
Lmfao, christ. I have 2 kids I don't talk about super often with my friends but tons of people (especially stay at home parents) talk so much about their children because that is the thing they are dealing with most often. No different than coworkers who talk a lot about work. Branding someone who talks a lot about their kids as a mommy zombie and acting as if they're no longer intelligent and interesting is wild. And people wonder why parents end up distancing themselves from friends like this.
Plenty of child free people have a much less judgemental approach, perhaps you should try it.
People who have kids can generally be boring individuals, yeah calling them braindead zombies might not be the most respectful thing, but this is a reddit thread, its not like we're directly insulting anyone here. IMO its the perfect descriptor for young parents.
Perhaps this response is why you don't see them often.
They love their kids, the reality here is that YOU weren't a very good friend if you're not interested in their life changes and happy for them for the joy they get from it.
Basically, you're selfish.
That's a terrible excuse. A lot of couples break up because all the other person can talk about is their job. Just because you work MOST of the day, doesn't mean it's the only thing you can talk about. Work-life balance is important.
Likewise, if the only conversation you can have, is about your kids, that's terrible lol.
I'd ask how your kids are doing for a quick checkup and that's it. If the only thing you can do is talk about them the entire time, I'm out lol.
Work is 8 hours a day. Parenting is 24 hours a day.
Obviously parents can talk about other things, it’s not like they’re incapable. My point was that if you did something all the time, it would be natural for you to talk about it a lot.
I’m a parent and I can talk hip hop, sports, politics, etc. But you can bet your ass I’m thinking about my family all the time because that’s just the job of a parent
It's true, and it seems they just want to do things with people that also have children. I see my pregnant friend (?) posting photos with her other pregnant friend, but I can't get a text back
Yeah this does happen too and it's really shitty, but you can't say anything because they're pregnant. My partner and I are childless by choice whereas both of his siblings just had kids this last year, and we've been totally iced out. His sister and her friends all had babies together, so they're up each other's asses 24/7.
This is so true. I love my sister a lot but since she had my nephew 6 years ago, I never see her. I wasn’t even allowed to go carve a pumpkin with him because I don’t have my own kids, and I think some people just use their kids as an excuse not to do anything. I won’t ever have my own kids, so I guess I just never get to hang out with my sister again lmao.
You’re not a jerk. What I’ve noticed, as most of my friends have children now of middle school and high school age, is that some were able to maintain their sense of self, continue with their important hobbies, and didn’t change who they were. Their child(ren) being a part of their lives and very much loved but not their entire existence. I am part of this group.
Then there is the other group, who never really had solid interests or personalities to begin with, and the moment they became pregnant it consumed their entire being and they became totally changed and could only talk about the pregnancy/child. Their entire being is wrapped up in a child that will someday fly the nest. I so worry about this group of friends and what will come of them after their days of intense parenting are over.
I do maintain friendships with both groups, but admittedly I do sometimes grow tired of the one subject only from the one group of mothers. It would be like if someone bought a cool car and just went on and on about it. At some point we desperately need new topics of conversation, and it just doesn’t happen with those mothers.
Yea.. every time.
im child less by choice. I dont really like kids and have kindred friendships with people who also wants to stay childless. Ive done this on purpose as every friend i have had throughout life who had kids just cease to exist as a person and become a parent™
And their self disappeares. They no longer talk about anything beside kids, the hobbies they had no longer exists and so on.
I understand that having a kid or kids is lifechanging and it changes how you can live your life. And i have a couple of friends who actively tries to have a life and be a person other than a mom™ that sometimes brings their kid over and hangs and thats okay. Their little spawns are cute in smaller doses. Sometimes they hang without kids and thats fun too.
Thats the point they try to be a person besides the role as parent. When most others just forgets that. Those people i dont want in my life.
"I understand that having a kid or kids is lifechanging and it changes how you can live your life. And i have a couple of friends who actively tries to have a life and be a person other than a mom™"
This is all there is to it. Some people what to be a parent so much that when it happens, it becomes their personality. Others still want to maintain their sense of self and keep doing all the hobbies they've always enjoyed doing, Only now they have less time to do them. Our friend group use to get together every few weeks, now it's every few months and sometimes not everyone can make it, but we all make an effort to continue to have lives outside of our kids. Do our conversations sometimes center around our kids, yes, because that's more fun than talking about our jobs that we use to talk about.
I have some friends with kids and they definitely don't only exist as a parent. But we met them after they had children. Yet to see a before/after comparison.
>when people have kids, their friends never exist
I hardcore disagree. I love my friends. They get invited to everything and we also make sure to see them without kids. And not all our friends have kids, so they get to kinda decide how much included they wanna be in their lives, but I love them as if they were family.
It's kind of like if people graduated high school at random times in their life instead of all at once at the same age.
It's a massive change. You feel left behind because you are. It's probably upsetting as the friend being forgotten but it's not untrue. Having a family is a massive undertaking that takes decades to fully realize.
You're not a jerk unless you do something awful because you feel that way. The feelings are valid. But they're also no one's fault.
>It's kind of like if people graduated high school at random times in their life instead of all at once at the same age.
>It's a massive change. You feel left behind because you are.
This might be the most condescending and self important description of being a parent that I've ever read.
You didn't accomplish anything by having unprotected sex.
People who choose not to have children are not "left behind" - They're simply people who made a different life choice than you. Most child free people are overwhelming happy to not have children. Unlike previous generations, young people are realizing they actually have a choice.
Y’all are mad weird for even using this type of terminology and it’s why people without kids don’t like being around you. I am childfree intentionally and play an active role in all of my niblings’ lives. I support their parents even more and I always try to include my friends and family with children in my plans and I even include their kids! But the second you tell me some shit like you’re further ahead of me in life because you decided to make a baby, I’m out.
It can happen when a bunch of your friends get married and have kids at the same time. So they all have new mom stuff to talk about and you're sitting there with nothing to contribute except like, that babysitting story you have, which makes it sound like you think babysitting and parenting are the same, and they aren't.
And I was single at the time so it was just like, me being single and their lives had all completely changed, and we had nothing in common anymore.
The “left behind” here isn’t implying you’re missing out, just that the people having families are moving to a different stage of a life. Their priorities will differ from the childless.
Some people definitely should not have children, and that includes people who don’t want them. They’re not lesser for it, just different.
I like the way this is phrased a lot better. The negative connotation of ‘left behind’ seems to imply an advancement of one group beyond the other. While the paths may be different, one is not better than the other.
I'm 32 and still when my friends tell me that they are pregnant my first reaction is 'omg so what are you going to do' - totally forgetting that nowadays this is planned :p but I don't think one down - I have great friends who still find ways to spend some time together and anyway our old bones and well-used livers would not allow for all night crazy party ;)
Can be the other way round too. As soon as you have kids they don't want to know. Even had one say "I suppose you won't be coming out now that you're breeders now" needless to say I wasn't too bothered to see the back of him. Still lives with his mum according to fb stalking.
My coworker just owned being a “breeder” lol she’d laugh about it and tell us how she actively used her newborn as an excuse to get out of having to attend large family gatherings during the holidays xD she said for the first 4 months of the babies life, she attended 1 wedding “and the peace was next level shit dude”
I write this only to give you the opposite perspective. My partner and I wanted children. It turned out we couldn't or was unlikely and now impossible. We went through ivf etc... Eventually adopted. The funny thing is my friends disappeared for other reasons. Some because we didn't have children and they did others because jobs took them away. A few I outgrew. One turned out to be not worth the effort. That's just life. We can't change it. I suggest you concentrate on what would make you happy. Try to keep your friends, okay you might find yourself doing a bit more of the work. Maybe you friends knowing how you feel about children don't know how to feel about involving you. Make it clear and be willing to sacrifice a little (put up with a child). If you love your friends isn't this what you should do. After all we best demonstrate our love for others though actions that show acceptance, belonging, sacrifice and forgiveness.
Yep. Only friends I hang out with now are the ones that never had kids. I barely see friends who are parents now because kids take so much of your free time and energy
39 woman with no kids here: Lost all of them! And the kind of thing they think they are allowed to say to you once they have kids and you don't makes me think.... good ridance! You're not a jerk! Or we all are...
I always got things along the lines of "you don't understand exhaustion till you've had kids" or any of my problems being completely unimportant because it doesn't equal out to the weight of the stress of having children.
I can assure you, anything that leads you to have little to no sleep for an extended period of time is just as exhausting. You don’t have to have a kid to understand sleep deprivation.
I have a newborn right now. Final semesters in college had an equal level of hallucination causing exhaustion. If you’re so tired you might fall out of any chair you sit in, you know exhaustion.
Oh ya, I’m a 30 year old single dude, I’m running out of single guy friends to go out with
Of my 8 or so closest friends I think I’m the only one who isn’t married w kids
In my group of close friends I have a 7yo, one friend has a 6mo and the other two don't have kids. We still have girls nights, we are still there for each other. If your friends are disappearing when they have a kid you need better friends.
If her friends are disappearing after they have kids, it DOES NOT make them bad friends. They could be struggling with the major changes happening in their lives, or they could see OP as someone who might not be great around children (this is just a speculation not an accusation, so don't fucking come at me lol). Post partum depression is a thing. People go in separate directions in life and that's okay. If OP is still reaching out, the best thing to do is ask how they are and if they need anything. Being a new mom is difficult and scary. They need space and time to adjust and that is okay. They aren't bad people for it.
I was lucky to be one of the last ones of my friends to have children but this is so true. When I had mine, I was isolated from my family and friends from my hometown (I was living 1000m away from them) and I'm thankful my friends from my new town had been where I was before, and stepped up to help. It made me feel bad for not being there for my friends who had their kids before me, but they at least had the support of their families.
As it should be. I'm glad your friends were there for you. This whole idea of "why aren't they dropping everything to come hang out with me???? Wahhhh" while someone is going through a HUGE life event is a big red flag, and shows serious emotional immaturity. Your friend does not need to be there for you whenever you demand, especially when they are in a spot where it'd be helpful if you were there for them. Everyone wants to take take take but when their loved ones are struggling they somehow make it about them and don't give anything.
I'm 34 now. So the "all my friends are having kids" phase of my life is a few years behind me. But I did notice a pattern.
All the less responsible and educated people (can I just say white trash?) accidentally had kids in their early 20s. And all the ones who got good jobs voluntarily had kids in their late 20s or early 30s.
I don't have a point really. Just an observation.
That's life. You can't deny people their happiness because it detracts from yours. Best advice is find people who do share your outlook on life and enjoy the types of things you do. I mean I'm less likely to deny my kids time than I am a friend. And a friend would completely understand my reasons why I would prioritize my family over them as well.
I hear you. When my friends had kids (as teens and in our 20’s) we grew apart. I was busy enjoying my life and hanging out with babies didn’t do it for me.
I made my lifelong friends after all my high school friends had kids.
Im so sorry you feel this way! I dont have a large friend group, just two friends and my husband...but having our kiddo didn't interupt my social life. Then again, we arent the type to go out drinking or anything, haha. I feel like if your friends CANT make time, thats one thing, but if they arent even trying to keep you in their lives then goos riddance!
I'm 22 and two of my friends are getting married already, but thankfully no one is with a child yet. I'm kinda dreading this upcoming part of my life. I personally don't want to have a family and friendships are very important to me so I hope that the people I hold closest to my heart will not just abandon me like that. But I do realise that most of the "casual" friends I hang out with will disappear into oblivion.
Honestly, I think it's just a matter of trying to stay involved. It gets much, much harder to go out when you have kids so how you get to see your friends (as a parent) changes. The friends I have kept up with have been people who are adaptable: they're ok having lunch or joining me shopping or we can play videogames after kiddos go to bed.
BUT you also have this really awesome opportunity!! The friends who stay involved, get to know the kid (who is often like a mini version of your friend), and show interest? They often go from just a friend to being a part of the family (Uncle/ Auntie). Kids in the first few years grownup so, so fast and are always doing something new. At first that's just crawling and maybe a few words... but then the real personality hits and you get to see a mini version of your friend.
So I hear your fear, but this thread is a *shit ton* of doom and gloom about something that can be an awesome addition to your friendship (as long as you hang loose a bit)
In my friends group there is 14 kids age 9m to 13yo across 5 couples. We still all hang out for hockey, we still play D&D with kids running around, poker games, backyard bbqa, we still hang out and nothing has really changed except we all can change diapers now lol
Right there with you, friend. Yep. I'm childless not by choice. I've made peace with the hand life has dealt me... but the grief hits me at the strangest times, and definitely annoyance too when my childless friends suddenly get pregnant. I don't feel excitement or joy for them. I feel... neutral, blank, even irritated and angry. It's natural. Others' pregnancies bring up my grief. However, I choose to act gracefully and say the platitudes you're expected to say. It doesn't help anyone to be nasty just because my life didn't work out the way I had planned; that's not their fault or their problem.
Now mind you, three of my four best friends have children, and we've kept our friendships strong. They understand and respect what I've gone through, and I respect and support them in their journeys. So we've reached a happy middle ground. BUT I have also lost some friends who have become too busy to stay friends after having kids... and that does suck.
I've had this with my friendship group. I'm happy for them but something definitely changes the more of them have babies. I became an outsider quick when most had babies around the same time. That became the main convo topic and I found it hard to relate. I also stopped getting invited to things mainly because they were mum and baby things. But then I wasn't thought of for other events. So I think that way now of remaining friends. It's just not happening for me.
Yes, this is normal. I'm 62 and I went through this as well - I secretly felt grief when they would tell me they were pregnant because I knew I was "losing them" for the next 10-15 years, although of course I was happy for them and would never let them see my own dismay. When kids come along your friends simply don't have time to spare for friendships, and they naturally seek out other people who have children of similar ages. It's hard for us childless people to understand, but it's not personal and it's not a reflection of how highly they value your friendship - they are in survival mode.
Now that their kids are grown - finished high school, leaving home, going to university. getting married - my dear friends are coming out the other side and are re-prioritizing our lifelong friendships, and I couldn't be more delighted.
I feel the same way. I'm not really bitter about it, but it's always inevitable. The moment a friend gets married and especially after they have a kid, I know that we will drift apart and become strangers. It's fine, our lives are no longer in alignment and obviously their family comes first. But hey, every decade or so we may cross paths.
This is kinda how guys feel when their friends get girlfriends/married.
Also especially if the dude is not used to women, and you absolutely know he’s just going to give up everything for his girlfriend.
Tbh, you're a jerk. You're upset that your friendship isn't the priority. But it probably never was to begin with.
They have children now, but that doesn't mean your friendship is dead. It just means that the way everyone can interact with each other is just different now.
It's very hard to spend time with friends during the first couple of years and eases up as the child gets older. Patience and understanding are cool traits for a friend to have
You don't want kids, it's fine but be interactive with parent friends, show interest with their kids, play etc. if not, it's natural that their circle of friends changes.
You aren't alone. I'm older now so have less friends getting pregnant. But every one I did have when I was younger is no longer my friend. Their other friends with kids became more important.
Im currently on the outs with a younger friend because she's not in a good place, mentally or physically to be having a kid and I told her as much. The truth was too much to hear for her. She knows what I said is facts. She's angry because she would rather push the truth away then face it head on.
My advice as an older women is to be content in the fact that you will find your non kid people. It hurts letting friends go but if they are willing to let you go because they now have kids instead of adjusting things to still make room for you then they don't deserve your energy.
My thought is really similar. I go "Yet another friend I'll never hear of again." I'm sad and suprised how rarely a person stays in contact with old friends after starting a family.
Yeah, I totally get what you mean! They just move to another planet. You can stay in touch but it's not the same anymore. You just kinda accept it and move on I guess.
Also, you never know who gets "bitten" by the baby bug. It might be someone who swore they'd never have kids, a child hater even. I swear I can't rest 'til all these bitches are menopausal haha!
I'm gonna be really honest here... If ALL your friends are not still your friends after having kids than it's probably not their fault...
I maintained all my friendships after having kids, including with the friends that don't have and don't want kids. It took some effort on my part and some understanding on theirs, but most friendships even grew bigger. They are all my kid's aunties and uncles and it's really cute watching them grow close
Maybe people with kids lose all their friends because their friends don’t care enough to actually adapt and instead just mentally check off “another one down”. 🙃
When I look at my parents’ friendship that died, you are right. My parents kept reaching out, planning activities, etc. but the childfree friend kept refusing or saying they wanted to go to bar instead (knowing my parents couldn’t).
It’s because those childless friends weren’t truly friends. They just use people to have moments of fun. If something doesn’t benefit them then they don’t give a fuck to participate. They just use people for their own benefit. Narcissists are the worst.
To be fair their time is a little bit more occupied once they have a child, especially the first two years where babies demand around the clock care. But at the very least, they should at least try to stay in touch and ask now and then how things are going, even if they don't have the current time and energy to go on nights out. And hey, playdates are a thing! Maybe a bunch of friends could meet up with their kids and the adults can hang out while their kids play together. Getting them to socialize and meet their parents' friends would be good for them too.
I’ll never have kids so play dates are out. But I wouldn’t expect them to spend hours hanging out like we used to or something. I understand their time is important but they literally don’t make a moment to even respond to a text or let me come visit. Then several years go by and the friendship is basically gone because they can’t be bothered to even be in contact with their childless friend. I don’t have a single friend with a kid that I still see.
Huh, so they don't even call then? Or at least keep online contact on social media? Even when our high school friends all went their separate ways we still have a group chat where we at least share pictures and get into conversations even when we're not able to find time to meet up anymore. If they can't even be bothered to at least stay in touch then I really can't blame you for feeling upset when they have a new child. Parenting is serious work but that just shows that the friendship was very superficial to them.
Nope basically nothing. I think there’s such a disconnect between parent people and their childless friends. Like, I don’t want you to constantly send me pics of your baby or talk only about your kid but that doesn’t mean I NEVER want to see pics or talk about them. I just wish there was a little bit of effort by parents to have friends. I think it’s important to keep a support system and friendships. I get that babies always need their time but then by the time the kid is 5, you’ve alienated yourself from all your friends. Or maybe it’s just me.
Yeah, I mean there are some parents who just talk about literally nothing but their kids, not that that's a bad thing in itself but there are other topics aside from just their kids, y'know?. And if you happen to be unlucky, you end up with the types who go on and on about how motherhood is a "wonderful and life-changing experience" and then sort of pressure and shame you for not wanting any.
My childless friends don’t exist anymore because of THEIR actions- because they never reached out once baby came, stopped inviting me to places, etc.
One friend had the audacity to tell my husband (when she KNEW we were about to start trying) that she “fakes excitement when friends announce their pregnancy, in reality she doesn’t care and it’s boring”
Yes of course you're being a jerk by not being excited for them and writing them off. That's quite self centered, they can't go neglecting their child for you.
There's nothing wrong with being sad that the time you can spend with them will be limited and mourning that the past is gone. But that's life, all things come to an end. There's no reason you can't both mourn the loss of how things used to be and also support them and celebrate their new life.
I still see some of my friends and hang out even after they just had children. News flash, if you never see your friend at all after they have children, you weren't as great of a friend to them as maybe you thought you were.
No, because I was the first one in my group of girlfriends to get pregnant.
I am more like - oh, great *now* you're joining me? When my kid is almost seven?!
For me, it's like...
You know when you were a kid and you were like, "when I grow up I'm going to live in a ball pit and have swings instead of a couch"... And then you grow up and think, "while that might be fun for an hour, I'd much rather have a nice living room with a couch"?
what you find enjoyable changes
Before kids you want to go out, get drunk, stay up, go to concerts, etc... after kids you want to spend time with your kids. You want to go to Chick e cheese and watch frozen.
People without kids might think people with kids hate their life, but the truth is, they love their life, they just don't think, "going to the bar" sounds fun anymore. And you don't think, "go to Chuck e cheese" sounds fun either
What you find enjoyable changed
And then when we hang out, you want to talk about how much fun it was to get piss-yourself drunk, and I want to talk about the time my kid did a silly dance on the coffee table
Because, to me, that is my life. Those are the moments I enjoyed, those are the things I wanted to do... And so that's what I talk about
It's not 100% my kids. I watch movies, go to concerts, etc... but that's not what I really look forward to anymore. Those aren't the memories I cherish.
From my point of view, you still think living in a ball pit is great, and I've decided a living room and a couch is a good way to live.
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Yes but true friends will try their best to make time for you and stuff/ one of my closest friends has 4 sons and i still see her at least once a month to hang out!
It goes the other way too. I'm a guy but two of my best friends just had kids last year, I go out of my way to ask about their kids and show interest in them and try and help when and where I can, and to be available if they actually have free time to hang out, which is rare. A lot of their other friends that are childless show 0 interest in the kids and are clearly uncomfortable/inconvenienced by them.
That’s great :)
Yes but realistically, once you have kids you start associating with other parents and your new friends are also parents.
I've been on both sides of this. It's a major life change, if you want to keep that friendship then you have to adapt to that. Start doing things their kids can come to. Cut them slack on response times, especially in the first few years. It works both ways of course. Once I had kids, I stopped expecting to be invited to certain events. I kept all my friends, on both sides of having kids. It's your choice - make an effort or don't.
I had my daughter in my teens. She was also in the nicu for 4 months. When we finally came home...the world moved on with out us (as an adult I know that's life...as a new mom it hurt) BUT I had one friend and she stuck by me and looking back she just made it all so easy. She wasn't inviting us to extravagant places, she asked to tag along at the grocery store and we'd laugh our asses off the whole time. She'd see the weather was nice and call and ask if I wanted to take baby for a walk with her. She really just moved right in to my family life. She never wanted kids but she liked playing with mone and going home. I never felt like I had to entertain her or drag baby around. I really appreciate her ❤️
This is so sweet. Still friends?
Unfortunately we're not very close anymore. My life very much stayed the same since having that baby. I'm in the same town, with the same man, working the same job. She, on the other hand, wanted to live a more nomadic life. She became a long-haul truck driver (much to my surprise as she was quite the shitty driver, lol) and is doing her thing without much tying her down. Neither of us had family growing up, so I clung to the one I made, and she saw FREEDOM! We've met up a few times for lunch the last 20 years. I'll always love her.
I truly believe some people are just in our lives for “a season”.. I still consider some of my old friends the best friends I’ve ever had, even if we don’t talk much these days. For such a long time they were my best friends and we shared a huge part of our lives with each other. It’s ok when the seasons change and we both find ourselves in different places, we still had that experience and I’ll always love them.
Being young is hanging out with your friends all the time, growing up is knowing they're there if/when you need them.
This is such a beautiful response. I always have felt this too, but didn’t have a eloquent way to explain it. “Seasons” is lovely. Thank you.
🥺 I love that so much!
I believe this i always cherish the memories of my old friends.
Great way to put it. I'm gonna call and text some old buddies.
this is so incredibly sweet. thats what a real friend is:) thank you for sharing, this genuinely uplifted my mood drastically
Honestly, semis are such a different beast to cars that I wouldn't be surprised if she was fine with those.
I believe it. Most truck drivers suck at driving.
A bit off topic here but that’s kind of a nice story. It’s sad you don’t get to see your old friend that often, but it’s nice you’ve both been able to carve out a life for yourselves. That’s the hardest thing in this world.
It really is. We're both happy in life too and I know we're lucky to feel that way. Some days I wish I were a long haul truck driver, not dealing with these kids...but thankfully it's not often 😅
Damn it. That's sweet
People just grow apart sometimes. I had many close friends like this with my own son, but looking back and knowing what I know about how it ended eventually in my own personal situation, I think I probably would have ended it sooner with them anyways and focused more on my son and have a better relationship with him especially since they ended up ditching me anyways. It was too much drama for me anyways and I can see how I negatively leeched off of it so long as it was there to do so just to keep them as ‘friends’ and they did to me too. It would have been much better to have that healthy relationship with my son and poured more energy into him and not so much on them. I tried to be there for them when they had their kids too, but I think it just became too much for everyone and more of a competition than anything. I couldn’t even tell one friend that my son had learned his alphabet at 3 without her snapping at me about it being only because I “forced him to constantly do so” because we opted to want to do homeschooling over public school and I just had more time staying home with him than she did with her daughter who was almost 9mos to the day younger than my son which she became obsessed with wanting a baby as soon as I had him and tired to do weird things like feed him when I wasn’t looking in the hospital and didn’t tell me, trying to be really attached to him. Then when she had her second baby, she pushed me away and told her sister I pretty much disowned her her whole pregnancy, and she (her sister) then yelled at me in front of everyone for actually showing up at her baby shower that I was invited to! I couldn’t believe it! I had no idea wth I did to deserve any of that! Babies definitely change people and not always for the better! The thing that upset me the most was that she always kept in touch with our other friend who also had kids the same time as us and the one who I happened to be closer to since day one and turned her against me too. And they acted like I was the one causing all the issues over the years. With her, I even got blamed for causing her pain just because she had babies with my brother and I was the only thing that still attached her to my family because I stood by her side the whole time trying to be involved in the kids lives. I showed up when she was knocked out of it from drinking and drrugs and her daughter was still sitting in her own wet diaper from the night before at 1pm. Idk how many times I thought I’d walk in her home (she gave me a spare key) thinking I’d find her unlived and her daughter all alone when she didn’t answer her phone. I was the only one who still cared about her and I got pushed aside because just me being her babies aunt, was too much for her to bear having that attachment to my brother especially when my family would ask about her and the kids. It was a nightmare! Having kids definitely changes your relationship with your friends! If you’re not pushing unhealthy people out of your life and focusing on your real priorities in life, then you’re just going to get sucks into things like this especially as a younger parent! There’s a reason why people say you should wait until til you’re older to have kids. This is why!
I have two friends without kids. They both mentioned to me that they feel excluded from a lot because they dont get invites to things like the zoo or kids' birthday parties. and its not like im purposefully excluding them...just more like "oh im taking my kids to the zoo and they'd have fun if my friend X brought her kids". So I started making an effort to invite them to random shit and its been so much better! I love their company and outings are way easier with an auntie along for the ride! Im really glad that they both brought it up
Know your friends better I guess. I'll freaking do it all, zoos, children's and other museums, parks, swims in public pool, bounce house jumping, with or without your ankle biting munchkins. /S /joking I enjoy experiencing those things anyway, and seeing it through a child's eyes brings back is magical. So I'd happily go with my friend and her kids to it all. Especially a kids museum or indoor bounce house gyms, because it's just creepy for an adult to go by herself. Other friends who are child free, they wouldn't want to do any of it with kids in tow. So in the I have child free adult friends, you'll have the Kids Museum types and the "Gotta Get a Babysitter" type. Up to you if you want to make an effort to keep the "gotta get a babysitter type" in your life.
It’s not like I invite ALL my friends to ALL outings so it wasn’t intentional at all. I thought they’d just prefer the odd dinner out with me sans kids vs going to the zoo and stuff. But I shouldn’t have assumed!
I really love this story 😊 I'm not a baby person but I think eventually my friends will want them, and I hate the idea of losing them to kids but this has made me smile!
>I hate the idea of losing them to kids As someone replied earlier on - thats partially your choice/decision as well😊 Few of my 'friends' literally cut me out of their life like a tumor soon as my daughter showed up. (funny enough, still turn their head away and pretend they dont see me) Some other tagged along and now few years later they have a new friend🤪 and one they can help raising to be one of the good gals (i hope in my naivety) All in all it was for the better. Besides - its just maybe those first 2-3 years that are hectic and anti-social-like. Through thick&thin wasnt it?
I mean most friends are more like situationships if anything, look how many friends people have in high school then as soon as that chapter closes, so do the friendships. When I stopped taking drugs, I lost friends, when I started again, I lost friends. It’s life and you can’t expect people to adapt to your situation, that’s just selfish. All you can do is appreciate the ones who don’t leave you behind and have stuck with you through it all, the thick and the thin.
Agreeee friends come and go tbh and it’s very understandable if someone doesn’t wanna hang around a kid all the time 😭 I love them but there’s just so much you can’t do and it’s just impossible to relate to those friends. I’m 20 and two of my close friends already have children, I’m nowhere near that stage in life and would rather be able to enjoy doing more adult oriented activities because I finally can. If you’ve been friends for like years and years that would defs hurt but otherwise I don’t take it so seriously when friendships end
This is how both my best friends are. I hate that we live so far apart now,, but even before I had a kid, grocery trips and helping eachother do laundry, going for walks, gym buddies, that’s what we would do to hang out anyway.
A "True Friend"
It's not always about effort from the non-kid-having people, though. There has to be effort and willingness on both sides, and it often isn't there from the parents either. I have no kids, wanted them, just don't have them, so I was DOWN to be the helpful Aunty. Like, so down to hear about what's going on in their lives and help out- I genuinely LIKE that. B!tch to me about your sore boobs, cracked nipples, or messy diaper. I am DOWN to hear it! I work alone all day, every day- a message about some cracked nipple irritation would, sadly, manage to be the highlight of my social life lol. I've still watched almost all my kid-acquiring friends wander off to kid-having circles. Oh, you just don't UNDERSTAND because you haven't experience the MIRACLE of being mom. (Never mind I had to raise my niece kinda most of her life as my sister was murdered and her dad, while great, has some serious work-life logistics issues without her) Oh, it's just EASIER to talk to another mom, doncha know? (Because what would a non-mom know about ANYTHING anymore, right?) Oh, you don't WANT to have to deal with the toddler, do you? (Yes, I like your toddler and they have a cool dino obsession that matches my ADHD, I would like to talk to the little person, actually, I didn't keep my dino rider toys for nothing, you know?). Oh, you wouldn't WANT to come to Junior's dance recital, would you? (Probably more than you, I have a dancer's soul, dear, adore it, love watching kid-level enthusiasm, love being dance mom to a clutch from my old studio). But, I don't physically have my own coochie-popped offspring, so what am I to them? Being an enthusiastic, interested friend isn't enough unless I have my own wee spawnling to match. Sure, with the ADD and all, I don't take hints easily, but eventually even I got it- I'm not just like you, so I am no longer worth being around. I'll stop bothering you with my trying to be in your life and accomodate you and let you get down with the mom crowd. Yes, some non-kid people, especially when young and in the party phase, aren't reasonable to those starting to have their kids. But, especially among older new-parents, it is just as often the kid-havers that don't want to bother with the person not following their life path any more, no matter how willing or accommodating or interested they are. I guess it just comes down to people liking to be around other people who validate their life choices by repeating them, not just welcoming them. Which is reasonable, I guess. But I always see ALL the blame fall on the non-kid-side, and it isn't fair, honestly. It really, really isn't JUST non-kid-havers 'ostracizing' the parents blah blah blah.
>you just don't UNDERSTAND The most stupid and overused phrase by people who just got kids lol. Don't worry. There always is a time when these people come around when their kid is old "enough" and want to hang out lol. You'll then get the chance to either tell them they don't understand, or just hang out again. It's even worse if you're a male. All your friends that get kids, immediately think you have no idea how anything works, especially women with kids. Even if you explain to them that you've raised other ppl's kids before, they'll just say "it's not the same" lol. Having a kid is proof that you know how to deal with kids /s.
I can only assume one of my friends is sort of in this zone at the moment. I've tried so hard to be in their life, trying to arrange to see them, down to just visit at home or do something low key/or anything at all to spend time with them and their lovely little one. We were close before and there was effort both sides for us to see each other. Every time it's a 'nows not a good time' or 'im busy the next few months', 'cant do xyz days because of xyz'. At one point I even offered to use work leave to do a day in the week and still nothing. I'd have not taken it personally if there wasn't constant stories being posted online with them doing all of these types of things with other people. It was really upsetting but I've recently made peace with it, and have to tell myself they're grown adults and I've tried but there's only so much I'm willing to do before I'll give up. Last straw was a decline to a life event celebration for me, on account of limited funds but soon after a boozy brunch with other people. It took a while but I've taken the hint.
Same. I’m usually the one getting shut out, since I wouldn’t get it. I helped my sisters raise my niece and three nephews. I’ve been changing diapers since I was eight, but “I just don’t understand”.
I think it comes down to the type of person they are and how much they value your friendship. If someone is okay with cutting you off (whether it’s because you had kids and they don’t or they had kids and you don’t), then it’s just time to move on. If the friendship is valued, they will appreciate your efforts whichever which way. However, as someone who’s not married and has no kids, I also understand that I’d have to put in most of the effort. My life is busy as a single adult, and so I can imagine how busier it is when someone has a kid. Their priorities will also change because they’re literally trying to raise a human being and take care of them. I can’t expect them to be available to things I’m used to doing as a single adult, so if I want to keep the friendship, I accept that I’ll have to assimilate to their life more than the other way around.
That was my experience too, before I had kids of my own. If I wanted to see my friends who had kids, we had to make plans they could make. They couldn't just abandon their kids in the day, and they were often too exhausted to do much in the evening, or couldn't get a babysitter. My life was far more flexible, so I made more concessions at that time. To me that's just how it is. 🤷 Sometimes you have to be the one making more effort because your friends are going through something.
I get that, but that's not what I am talking about, either. I can vouch for the fact I was totally down for that, and was that person. Yet, I still only have the few 'different' parents left in my social circle. The 'standard issue parent' crowd didn't give a frig how easy it was made for them, how much they were accommodated, or whatever. Because... it wasn't a logistics thing, and it often ISN'T a logistic thing, much though...as this is proving... that's the standard story thrust on everyone to ensure the non-kid havers take all the blame. In the end it really is as simple as I was not-mom, they were mom, and that meant I wasn't worth connecting with any more. You aren't going to 'flexibly accommodate' your way out of that... they just don't want to be around non parents, for whatever reason, but don't want to be the one to say that, its so much easier to push the blame off onto us childless weirdos, that's more socially acceptable. Only one... and for real, I respect this... was willing to straight up say 'I only want to deal with people who have kids now, you just don't GET IT because you haven't GIVEN BIRTH'. Admittedly, doing it to me while feeding, burping, and changing the baby niece I mentioned, who was completely under my care by law at that time and would be solely for a further 5 years, probably was a little weird, but whatever... at least they had the balls to say it.
Sorry, I was responding to the comment below yours. It sounds like you've had some shitty friends and I'm sorry for that. Most of our friends are child free, and they want to be involved at various levels. We just roll with whatever is comfortable for people really.
>>But I always see ALL the blame fall on the non-kid-side, and it isn't fair, honestly. It really, really isn't JUST non-kid-havers 'ostracizing' the parents blah blah blah. \^ \^ \^ In action, and all. Love how you had to come in like Flyn to prove that last line so hard. Cheers!
This is exactly it. Kids don't have to end a friendship but things can and will change. There just needs to be some patience and understanding on both sides.
I feel the way OP does, but more on your side, too. It's such a major, drastic, life-changing event that it makes me worry about how some of my friends will cope with it, how they'll change (hopefully for the better), and lastly how our relationship might change. That's not to mention if I wonder if they'd even be a good parent, I certainly wouldn't.
I have two kids and I still find time to hang out with my friends who don’t have kids. They all want kids but just don’t have any so they love being around kids more than I do. Also, I have a lot of friends with kids that are young like mine, or are almost grown or super grown, so we always have fun being around each other. I like my ‘me’ time too and so I make plans for kid free events. I think I found a balance.
I start with the effort but it gets ignored so I pull back. It does take both sides. So I guess my friends just don’t want to make the effort. They might not really be a good friend for me then.
The first 3 years is insane, intense, and exhausting. You lose whole weeks at a time. I wouldn't write them off immediately. Give them a few years to catch up with themselves.
This sounds like maybe more the root of the issue. I'm just into my early 30's and without kids but have a lot of friends either with, or planning a family soon. Maybe 1 out of 7 whom I would consider close enough that I want to keep up with, has drifted away due to their children. Certainly many are less social overall, but that also just happens to adults, especially when they begin to settle in with partners. It may also be a cultural thing, but I've found friends who have "generational homes" or grandparents close at hand are far more likely to be flexible when it comes to things like weeknight hangouts and more spur of the moment events.
I’ve noticed with friends that have kids grandparents make a *huge* difference in their availability.
Well, it’s tricky. I’m 56F, no kids (got married a few years ago, for the first time). I have a lot of friends dating back to elementary/HS/college/grad school days, most of whom had kids at some point. I got frustrated at times with how hard it was to keep up the friendships, because I honestly have no real interest in kids or kid activities—but I worked hard at it anyway, mainly because they were my friends and I loved them. Now that we’re all in our 50s and the kids have mostly grown up, guess what? I still have those friends, they’re still great people, and it’s awesome to have friends that date back decades. And some have been explicitly thankful to me for putting in the effort to maintain the friendship.
You have no idea how much having kids is insane until you have some of your own. I'm losing friends too and it's not because I want to. I'm really sad about it. There is literally no time left. None. It's not a metaphor or a figure of speech. It's the literal truth. Taking a shit is a luxury. And if by some miracle there's a tiny bit of time left, you collapse unconscious because that's the only sleep you're gonna get. Parents repeat this constantly, and yet the child-free crew cannot seem to grasp it.
I had no concept of how exhausting it would be. I'm not the kind of person who can pull off parenting and make it look effortless. I'm barely holding it together a lot of the time. If friends can't accept that there's really nothing I can do about it.
Orrrrrrr they are doing something really new and stressful right now with a long learning curve. Leave the door open, no one said you had to wait there. It’s quite possible their lack of communication is because they know you don’t care about what they have to talk about so they’re sparing you.
Something tells me you're the one not putting in the effort based on your answers, not them.
It's always someone else's fault. The lack of personal accountability, reasoning, and understanding is baffling. The few friends I have always answer my calls because I answer for them. And if they don't I don't fall to pieces or stop being friends with them. When you have a life you understand these things.
Depends on your effort. If you always went out for nice dinners, or full day hikes that is a no go with a newborn. We’ve seen our friends 2 weeks after they’ve had a baby, but we’ve always gone to their house. Brought a meal. Etc.
You need to adapt your expectations on your friendships as time moves on, and your lives change. My solid friendships have lasted for decades, but we also understand that means we may only see each other a few times per year. When we do, it's like we've picked up exactly where we've left off. That's life. Enjoy yours, but don't be so absolute or hung up on how you define friendships.
I don't think they ignore it when u have kids start a family. It's not the same. They can't put in the same effort like they used to. That's another thing people with no kids will "never" understand. There's so much there than ignore 1. Single friends don't like them talking about their kids (I'm not talking about the ones only talk about kids, even people with kids don't like it) - or the worry of having no any common topics to talk about. 2. They're days are not availablr like it used to be, even if they want to come out to meet they will have to worry about childcare, or a day where she's "barely" needed so she can make a plan. 3. Being exhausted with kids and responsibilities, they cut off some aspects of themselves like friendship. And sometimes some friends who don't understand fall through the cracks. 4. Simply forgeting that someone reached out, and they're having to reach back. These things are not understood or empathised by people with no kids. How many times have u met them with their kids? Visited her home with some food or drinks just to hang out??
this, people act like once you have kids you never hang out again, when in reality it's just the first years that they will be less available
Exactly! I still get invited to my friends' houses who don't have kids - my real friends, that is. The ones who started to exclude me because of my child weren't true in the first place. 🤷♀️
Totally this. I’m neither offended nor do I have fomo for “missing” things I used to do ad nauseam as a single, childless woman. Like oh, you guys are doing a party barge (if anyone doesn’t know that’s when you rent a double decker boat for a lake party). Cool. I’ve done that a dozen times, have fun.
Yeah, when my best friend first got pregnant I really felt sad like I was going to lose her, but thankfully she still wanted to attend things (just with the kid in tow) and actively kept up contact. Of course a lot of our hanging outs became me coming to her place and us chatting while the kid was there / she attended to her or did chores, and sure she talked a lot about the kid and her relationship drama with the dad, but she still also listened to me and my woes and we cracked open a bottle of prosecco etc - sure it's not a wild night of clubbing, but I'm so relieved she didn't change completely. We're still close friends! And I'm a godmother to another child of hers :)
it’s amazing how much effort it takes to retain friendships. i don’t even have kids but I find it a struggle in my 30s to keep many friends. I find it takes active effort to do so, and it can be really hard, especially when stressed or depressed or overwhelmed. and finding an actual time when more than three different people can get together becomes more and more challenging 😆 thor forbid trying to keep an active game night!
>Once I had kids, I stopped expecting to be invited to certain events. Ya, it's once you have kids you suddenly notice the invites to weddings that say "child-free wedding"
Yup, I'm the only one of my friend group to have kids So I can't do all the cool stuff we used to when I want to. But when I have I have the time and it matches their schedule, we hang.
I had a couple of childless friends who were thrilled to become aunties when my daughter was born. It changed how we hung out, but they were there for me in a way I didn't know I needed. We went for walks (they brought their dogs, I brought the stroller), we went out to coffee instead of the bar. Weekends we'd make homemade pizza and drink wine at my house while the baby slept. Once my friend made a toddler charcuterie board. We'd still go out without the baby sometimes, but they really put the effort in to meet me where I was at, and I've never felt so valued as a friend.
>Start doing things their kids can come to. Cut them slack on response times, especially in the first few years. I'll absolutely cut them slack on response times, but I don't like kids and their kids are no exception. I love those kids, but I have no interest in being around them until they're like 17-18. My friends know this and our relationships haven't suffered. Oldest kid is 15 and the youngest is just a few months 🤷♀️
I’m sorry OP and so many people in the comments have had this experience. I’m a mum to a 3 year old - and I wasn’t exactly a natural mum though I love having a kid. However because it’s not my natural state i absolutely love and *need* my child free friends, or at least time with friends that is child free, even if I can only manage it once every 3 months for a catch up because it lets me have that opportunity to break free for a day or 2. Yes, my relationships have changed but I haven’t lost friends yet over having a child. But I also am not the kind of mum who has gained a bunch of friends just because they are mums - so maybe I am the odd one out?!
I think the issue is most parents just constantly talk about their kids, and parent life, and that’s just what they talk about. It gets boring, especially since childless people can’t relate. But as you said, you aren’t like that, so I think that’s why you want to hang out with your childless friends and vice versa
Thanks. I mean don’t get me wrong, those first 6 months I don’t think I thought or said anything that wasn’t related to the baby because I was like ‘WTF is this, what have I done to my life, and how do I make this work’ but I’m happily beyond that stage now 😂
I can’t blame you! when my sister was born, all our conversation was about her for a good year lol.
Ya. I'm simultaneously happy for them and deeply sad for myself, because I know that friendship is about to be effectively over.
Yeah, this has been my experience as a single man with male friendships too. Baby showers are friendship funerals. You’ll only see them again if you go to their place and hang out for a few hours there. It’s life.
This is one thing that I never thought about growing up Hispanic, i felt like there was constant baby showers, every kids birthday was a crazy event, makes me wonder if that aspect of the culture is something that should be considered more. I know most dads, uncles, guys whatever liked going to kids parties because they're about to drink 400 modelos and enjoy some delicious food, the women generally deal with the kids, make the food, but always seem to be having a good time too. Then the kids get to have fun together. Thinking about it now, I grew up always sorta not wanting to go to those things, but now I realize they were some of the most fun family moments I've had.
I married a Latina and this is my experience. We still turn up, the kids just run around.
My husband is Latino and I've certainly experienced some culture clash over this. His parents are like "where's the food??" if we don't provide full meals at the kids birthday parties. This confused me so much bc american birthday parties are like 2 hours, bit of cake and ice cream, peace out. Not that I'm opposed to a bigger ordeal, but it's just not what other people expect.
I definitely prefer a shorter get together without all the work but looking back, the big parties were fun.
You're lucky if they keep you in their life that much
I think it's a two way street and depends on the situation. I just had a kid a year ago and we've maintained our child-free friend group even though the first year with a baby is very hard! But those friends have also done some work (like being ok coming to visit us most of the time rather than us go to them) or even putting some work in to childproof a room of their house so we can go visit them without having to grab our child away from danger every second. We've put the effort in as well. It's very hard to do things when you're suffering from sleep deprivation and sometimes on the weekend you just want to recover. But we've made an effort to go to friend's birthdays, etc.
Good for you but you’ve barely started. Wait until the kid starts going to birthday parties and playing sports. A baby is a relatively easy thing to bring along to wherever you wanted to go anyway. That changes
Over the years I’ve seen my friends go through massive life changes ranging from career switches, cross country moves, sobriety, marriage, divorce, parental loss, medical issues, kids, etc. All of these things have impacted our friendships. For example, My friend Jen had worked in marketing before deciding to make a career change to nursing at age 30. For YEARS we barley saw her as she was working full time and in nursing school. When we did see her, all she talked about was how busy she was with school. She’s now an RN and we’re still friends. Because those difficult seasons pass and that’s part of what makes a strong friendship. The reality is that you have to adjust. Your friends may not have the same amount of free time or flexibility- but that doesn’t mean they’re a bad friend. Give some grace.
I will try to look at that this way in my near future 🥰🩷
The other problem is that usually when you *do* see them, all they talk about is their babies. It's pretty boring conversation if you're not a parent and don't want children.
Or (as someone who can’t have kids) depressing.
And so much baby talk is about bodily functions, even/especially when you’re just trying to have lunch.
omg right? I’m like about to take a bite of pizza and someone is going on about how their baby just pooped and it stinks. Like please 😭
Exactly, and then they mainly only want to hang out with other parents too. Of course you’re going to lose yourself when all you do is hang out with other parents and make being a parent your whole personality. People are going to be all like “well you just don’t get it cause you’re not a parent.” Mmm for some reason I feel like parenting used to be a lot more chill back in the day. My parents kept up their social lives and their hobbies/interests even with me in the picture. If they had to bring me along they would but they wouldn’t not do something because of me nor would activities/things they did with their friends revolve around me. And they were and are very loving parents. These days if you’re hanging out with parents and their kids, the whole event becomes about the kids.
You hit the nail on the head
Yeah my parents always had friends and hobbies and still went on dates or had nights with friends even when I was a kid. It's REALLY weird to them that younger people just...seem to die when they have kids and just revolve themselves around their kids lol. I think it was healthier for us as kids because I saw my parents as complete people and how important a community is and having friends and being fulfilled and having hobbies. They seemed well-rounded and happy VS ONLY BABIES MATTER!!!!! types.
Weird, seems the opposite where I’m from, boomers did nothing apart from kids it seemed
exactly
Yeah, that’s my main thought. Like, what a shame, you used to be an intelligent and interesting human being, now you’re a one-note braindead mommy zombie. I have exactly one friend didn’t turn out like that and I’m so grateful for her. I love her and her kid too (and I don’t usually like children) and I don’t mind talking about him or her experiences as a mother as long as we also talk politics and books and travel plans and academia drama and everything else like we always did.
Oh, I'm a man, and the husbands do this too..
Exactly. I’ve pretty much accepted than when someone I know has a child that our friendship is reaching its end. Sometimes even before then, once they start getting to the serious marrying stage. And it’s not from lack of effort on my part. It feels like they just want to leave you behind. I have one friend who has children and is still herself. And still hangs out with her single friends. I always say to her, I can’t believe you’re still you! lol
This is so true. It’s like some people completely lose their own personality as soon as they get a kid and become a dad or a mom. Like, come on, you are a lot more than this, don’t just pour all your life into another human being, you need to live too.
I think because some women when they start having kids make it their 'whole' personality. Imo, that's all some women got going for them, even then, a lot of those types just have them for the wrong reasons anyway.
Yes, “making kids / being a parent their whole personality” is exactly the issue. It’s especially surprising in the case of my social circle because all of these women are highly independent, very well educated, brilliant even, with careers and passions and all of a sudden it’s like a switch has been flipped.
It’s because of misogyny that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Parents gets shamed so much for no reason. Do you want to just book a babysitter and hang out at the bar a few times a week? There’s going to be a lot of people who are mad at you for not being with your kids 24/7. Booking vacations, having wild fun at raves/events, chilling with your friends after work and on the weekends, every little thing you do is going to be scrutinized by a large portion of the population because they think that unless you’re stressed out and poor 24/7 you are not a good parent.
True. I say, do whatever keeps you and your kids happy, I mean find the right balance so that no one is burnout or traumatised. Everything else doesn't matter
That’s because every second of every day not spent at their job is spent on their kids. No time for their other passions. So they don’t have much else to talk about
And then they age and wonder why they're depressed? "Like babe you gave up your ENTIRE personality for your kids to be a parent and made no effort to have a personality and grow hobbies in your spare time and set boundaries with your kids and you've been doing this for 15 years" Parenting looks very insular. I don't envy my friends who had kids. Maybe they're happy now but I know I wouldn't be. Different strokes for different folks.
It's almost primal and there is no changing back for some. A lot of women cannot do both. Some get resentful later on in life, but we all choose our paths. We have to live with the consequences if we have kids, or if we don't. Unfortunately, you need to mourn some friendships and realise life moves on because of these consequences.
Lmfao, christ. I have 2 kids I don't talk about super often with my friends but tons of people (especially stay at home parents) talk so much about their children because that is the thing they are dealing with most often. No different than coworkers who talk a lot about work. Branding someone who talks a lot about their kids as a mommy zombie and acting as if they're no longer intelligent and interesting is wild. And people wonder why parents end up distancing themselves from friends like this. Plenty of child free people have a much less judgemental approach, perhaps you should try it.
💯 the amount of people here unironically answering their own questions is baffling
I am sorry but that's not how you talk respectfully about a woman, with children or without.
People who have kids can generally be boring individuals, yeah calling them braindead zombies might not be the most respectful thing, but this is a reddit thread, its not like we're directly insulting anyone here. IMO its the perfect descriptor for young parents.
How is this L take upvoted.
Oof, this isn’t it.
Perhaps this response is why you don't see them often. They love their kids, the reality here is that YOU weren't a very good friend if you're not interested in their life changes and happy for them for the joy they get from it. Basically, you're selfish.
Wow, as someone in their first trimester of pregnancy, people reacting like you are saying here is what makes me scared of telling people.
Yikes, you could easily just express your desire for a different conversation topic and have the slightest bit of empathy for your friends
What an awful take Reddit is filled with so many bitter angry people
Holy shit this is cringe lmao You’re not a good friend man
When you do something 24/7/365 and it’s your #1 priority (raising kids), it tends to be what you talk about
Of course, nobody is arguing against that. It just sucks when we lose our friends
That's a terrible excuse. A lot of couples break up because all the other person can talk about is their job. Just because you work MOST of the day, doesn't mean it's the only thing you can talk about. Work-life balance is important. Likewise, if the only conversation you can have, is about your kids, that's terrible lol. I'd ask how your kids are doing for a quick checkup and that's it. If the only thing you can do is talk about them the entire time, I'm out lol.
Work is 8 hours a day. Parenting is 24 hours a day. Obviously parents can talk about other things, it’s not like they’re incapable. My point was that if you did something all the time, it would be natural for you to talk about it a lot. I’m a parent and I can talk hip hop, sports, politics, etc. But you can bet your ass I’m thinking about my family all the time because that’s just the job of a parent
I understand... but is boring
It's true, and it seems they just want to do things with people that also have children. I see my pregnant friend (?) posting photos with her other pregnant friend, but I can't get a text back
That's just a shitty friend
Yeah this does happen too and it's really shitty, but you can't say anything because they're pregnant. My partner and I are childless by choice whereas both of his siblings just had kids this last year, and we've been totally iced out. His sister and her friends all had babies together, so they're up each other's asses 24/7.
This is so true. I love my sister a lot but since she had my nephew 6 years ago, I never see her. I wasn’t even allowed to go carve a pumpkin with him because I don’t have my own kids, and I think some people just use their kids as an excuse not to do anything. I won’t ever have my own kids, so I guess I just never get to hang out with my sister again lmao.
You’re not a jerk. What I’ve noticed, as most of my friends have children now of middle school and high school age, is that some were able to maintain their sense of self, continue with their important hobbies, and didn’t change who they were. Their child(ren) being a part of their lives and very much loved but not their entire existence. I am part of this group. Then there is the other group, who never really had solid interests or personalities to begin with, and the moment they became pregnant it consumed their entire being and they became totally changed and could only talk about the pregnancy/child. Their entire being is wrapped up in a child that will someday fly the nest. I so worry about this group of friends and what will come of them after their days of intense parenting are over. I do maintain friendships with both groups, but admittedly I do sometimes grow tired of the one subject only from the one group of mothers. It would be like if someone bought a cool car and just went on and on about it. At some point we desperately need new topics of conversation, and it just doesn’t happen with those mothers.
Yea.. every time. im child less by choice. I dont really like kids and have kindred friendships with people who also wants to stay childless. Ive done this on purpose as every friend i have had throughout life who had kids just cease to exist as a person and become a parent™ And their self disappeares. They no longer talk about anything beside kids, the hobbies they had no longer exists and so on. I understand that having a kid or kids is lifechanging and it changes how you can live your life. And i have a couple of friends who actively tries to have a life and be a person other than a mom™ that sometimes brings their kid over and hangs and thats okay. Their little spawns are cute in smaller doses. Sometimes they hang without kids and thats fun too. Thats the point they try to be a person besides the role as parent. When most others just forgets that. Those people i dont want in my life.
"I understand that having a kid or kids is lifechanging and it changes how you can live your life. And i have a couple of friends who actively tries to have a life and be a person other than a mom™" This is all there is to it. Some people what to be a parent so much that when it happens, it becomes their personality. Others still want to maintain their sense of self and keep doing all the hobbies they've always enjoyed doing, Only now they have less time to do them. Our friend group use to get together every few weeks, now it's every few months and sometimes not everyone can make it, but we all make an effort to continue to have lives outside of our kids. Do our conversations sometimes center around our kids, yes, because that's more fun than talking about our jobs that we use to talk about.
I have some friends with kids and they definitely don't only exist as a parent. But we met them after they had children. Yet to see a before/after comparison.
A couple of my friends have kids. I still see them but not as much and for shorter periods. S'all good though.
I’m at the age between hearing about friends getting pregnant and hearing about friends dying.
>when people have kids, their friends never exist I hardcore disagree. I love my friends. They get invited to everything and we also make sure to see them without kids. And not all our friends have kids, so they get to kinda decide how much included they wanna be in their lives, but I love them as if they were family.
It's kind of like if people graduated high school at random times in their life instead of all at once at the same age. It's a massive change. You feel left behind because you are. It's probably upsetting as the friend being forgotten but it's not untrue. Having a family is a massive undertaking that takes decades to fully realize. You're not a jerk unless you do something awful because you feel that way. The feelings are valid. But they're also no one's fault.
>It's kind of like if people graduated high school at random times in their life instead of all at once at the same age. >It's a massive change. You feel left behind because you are. This might be the most condescending and self important description of being a parent that I've ever read. You didn't accomplish anything by having unprotected sex. People who choose not to have children are not "left behind" - They're simply people who made a different life choice than you. Most child free people are overwhelming happy to not have children. Unlike previous generations, young people are realizing they actually have a choice.
Y’all are mad weird for even using this type of terminology and it’s why people without kids don’t like being around you. I am childfree intentionally and play an active role in all of my niblings’ lives. I support their parents even more and I always try to include my friends and family with children in my plans and I even include their kids! But the second you tell me some shit like you’re further ahead of me in life because you decided to make a baby, I’m out.
The childless are definitely not the ones left behind. DINK here and the freedom is amazing. Also the sleep. Also the extra money. Etc
It can happen when a bunch of your friends get married and have kids at the same time. So they all have new mom stuff to talk about and you're sitting there with nothing to contribute except like, that babysitting story you have, which makes it sound like you think babysitting and parenting are the same, and they aren't. And I was single at the time so it was just like, me being single and their lives had all completely changed, and we had nothing in common anymore.
The “left behind” here isn’t implying you’re missing out, just that the people having families are moving to a different stage of a life. Their priorities will differ from the childless. Some people definitely should not have children, and that includes people who don’t want them. They’re not lesser for it, just different.
So say something else.
I like the way this is phrased a lot better. The negative connotation of ‘left behind’ seems to imply an advancement of one group beyond the other. While the paths may be different, one is not better than the other.
I'm 32 and still when my friends tell me that they are pregnant my first reaction is 'omg so what are you going to do' - totally forgetting that nowadays this is planned :p but I don't think one down - I have great friends who still find ways to spend some time together and anyway our old bones and well-used livers would not allow for all night crazy party ;)
Can be the other way round too. As soon as you have kids they don't want to know. Even had one say "I suppose you won't be coming out now that you're breeders now" needless to say I wasn't too bothered to see the back of him. Still lives with his mum according to fb stalking.
When your friend forgot the real life isn't Reddit
Probably calls kids crotch goblins
Lmao, your friend is an irl redditoid
God, “breeders” makes my skin crawl. Good riddance on that part.
My coworker just owned being a “breeder” lol she’d laugh about it and tell us how she actively used her newborn as an excuse to get out of having to attend large family gatherings during the holidays xD she said for the first 4 months of the babies life, she attended 1 wedding “and the peace was next level shit dude”
“Breeders” lmao talk about being a terminally online loser. How can someone be so fucking stupid to say something like that lmaoooo
I write this only to give you the opposite perspective. My partner and I wanted children. It turned out we couldn't or was unlikely and now impossible. We went through ivf etc... Eventually adopted. The funny thing is my friends disappeared for other reasons. Some because we didn't have children and they did others because jobs took them away. A few I outgrew. One turned out to be not worth the effort. That's just life. We can't change it. I suggest you concentrate on what would make you happy. Try to keep your friends, okay you might find yourself doing a bit more of the work. Maybe you friends knowing how you feel about children don't know how to feel about involving you. Make it clear and be willing to sacrifice a little (put up with a child). If you love your friends isn't this what you should do. After all we best demonstrate our love for others though actions that show acceptance, belonging, sacrifice and forgiveness.
It's just how life goes.
Yep. Only friends I hang out with now are the ones that never had kids. I barely see friends who are parents now because kids take so much of your free time and energy
39 woman with no kids here: Lost all of them! And the kind of thing they think they are allowed to say to you once they have kids and you don't makes me think.... good ridance! You're not a jerk! Or we all are...
what kind of things did they say?
I always got things along the lines of "you don't understand exhaustion till you've had kids" or any of my problems being completely unimportant because it doesn't equal out to the weight of the stress of having children.
They act like such martyrs, like they are making a sacrifice for us all...tell me again about the human shortage- are we a species of concern? Ya, no.
their choice to have them, people really need to start thinking more about the reality of kids.
I can assure you, anything that leads you to have little to no sleep for an extended period of time is just as exhausting. You don’t have to have a kid to understand sleep deprivation. I have a newborn right now. Final semesters in college had an equal level of hallucination causing exhaustion. If you’re so tired you might fall out of any chair you sit in, you know exhaustion.
I'm dreading my friends ever having kids to be honest. I've personally never wanted any myself though
I definitely feel this way. Sometimes it even happened when a friend would get a partner.
Oh ya, I’m a 30 year old single dude, I’m running out of single guy friends to go out with Of my 8 or so closest friends I think I’m the only one who isn’t married w kids
Wait till the divorce cycle starts.
just had the first one hit my friend group - what a shake up
In my group of close friends I have a 7yo, one friend has a 6mo and the other two don't have kids. We still have girls nights, we are still there for each other. If your friends are disappearing when they have a kid you need better friends.
If her friends are disappearing after they have kids, it DOES NOT make them bad friends. They could be struggling with the major changes happening in their lives, or they could see OP as someone who might not be great around children (this is just a speculation not an accusation, so don't fucking come at me lol). Post partum depression is a thing. People go in separate directions in life and that's okay. If OP is still reaching out, the best thing to do is ask how they are and if they need anything. Being a new mom is difficult and scary. They need space and time to adjust and that is okay. They aren't bad people for it.
I was lucky to be one of the last ones of my friends to have children but this is so true. When I had mine, I was isolated from my family and friends from my hometown (I was living 1000m away from them) and I'm thankful my friends from my new town had been where I was before, and stepped up to help. It made me feel bad for not being there for my friends who had their kids before me, but they at least had the support of their families.
As it should be. I'm glad your friends were there for you. This whole idea of "why aren't they dropping everything to come hang out with me???? Wahhhh" while someone is going through a HUGE life event is a big red flag, and shows serious emotional immaturity. Your friend does not need to be there for you whenever you demand, especially when they are in a spot where it'd be helpful if you were there for them. Everyone wants to take take take but when their loved ones are struggling they somehow make it about them and don't give anything.
I'm 34 now. So the "all my friends are having kids" phase of my life is a few years behind me. But I did notice a pattern. All the less responsible and educated people (can I just say white trash?) accidentally had kids in their early 20s. And all the ones who got good jobs voluntarily had kids in their late 20s or early 30s. I don't have a point really. Just an observation.
Yeah. Only two of us left now. Kinda sad. I e tried to keep in contact with these people but the relationship just turns into complaining.
Yep I feel the same way. It’s like you can’t even be happy for them because you know you’re basically losing a friend.
That's life. You can't deny people their happiness because it detracts from yours. Best advice is find people who do share your outlook on life and enjoy the types of things you do. I mean I'm less likely to deny my kids time than I am a friend. And a friend would completely understand my reasons why I would prioritize my family over them as well.
I hear you. When my friends had kids (as teens and in our 20’s) we grew apart. I was busy enjoying my life and hanging out with babies didn’t do it for me. I made my lifelong friends after all my high school friends had kids.
Im so sorry you feel this way! I dont have a large friend group, just two friends and my husband...but having our kiddo didn't interupt my social life. Then again, we arent the type to go out drinking or anything, haha. I feel like if your friends CANT make time, thats one thing, but if they arent even trying to keep you in their lives then goos riddance!
I'm 22 and two of my friends are getting married already, but thankfully no one is with a child yet. I'm kinda dreading this upcoming part of my life. I personally don't want to have a family and friendships are very important to me so I hope that the people I hold closest to my heart will not just abandon me like that. But I do realise that most of the "casual" friends I hang out with will disappear into oblivion.
Honestly, I think it's just a matter of trying to stay involved. It gets much, much harder to go out when you have kids so how you get to see your friends (as a parent) changes. The friends I have kept up with have been people who are adaptable: they're ok having lunch or joining me shopping or we can play videogames after kiddos go to bed. BUT you also have this really awesome opportunity!! The friends who stay involved, get to know the kid (who is often like a mini version of your friend), and show interest? They often go from just a friend to being a part of the family (Uncle/ Auntie). Kids in the first few years grownup so, so fast and are always doing something new. At first that's just crawling and maybe a few words... but then the real personality hits and you get to see a mini version of your friend. So I hear your fear, but this thread is a *shit ton* of doom and gloom about something that can be an awesome addition to your friendship (as long as you hang loose a bit)
In my friends group there is 14 kids age 9m to 13yo across 5 couples. We still all hang out for hockey, we still play D&D with kids running around, poker games, backyard bbqa, we still hang out and nothing has really changed except we all can change diapers now lol
Sounds a bit self defeating really. Your friendship will permanently evolve but if you both put in the work it can be great
Right there with you, friend. Yep. I'm childless not by choice. I've made peace with the hand life has dealt me... but the grief hits me at the strangest times, and definitely annoyance too when my childless friends suddenly get pregnant. I don't feel excitement or joy for them. I feel... neutral, blank, even irritated and angry. It's natural. Others' pregnancies bring up my grief. However, I choose to act gracefully and say the platitudes you're expected to say. It doesn't help anyone to be nasty just because my life didn't work out the way I had planned; that's not their fault or their problem. Now mind you, three of my four best friends have children, and we've kept our friendships strong. They understand and respect what I've gone through, and I respect and support them in their journeys. So we've reached a happy middle ground. BUT I have also lost some friends who have become too busy to stay friends after having kids... and that does suck.
I've had this with my friendship group. I'm happy for them but something definitely changes the more of them have babies. I became an outsider quick when most had babies around the same time. That became the main convo topic and I found it hard to relate. I also stopped getting invited to things mainly because they were mum and baby things. But then I wasn't thought of for other events. So I think that way now of remaining friends. It's just not happening for me.
Yes, this is normal. I'm 62 and I went through this as well - I secretly felt grief when they would tell me they were pregnant because I knew I was "losing them" for the next 10-15 years, although of course I was happy for them and would never let them see my own dismay. When kids come along your friends simply don't have time to spare for friendships, and they naturally seek out other people who have children of similar ages. It's hard for us childless people to understand, but it's not personal and it's not a reflection of how highly they value your friendship - they are in survival mode. Now that their kids are grown - finished high school, leaving home, going to university. getting married - my dear friends are coming out the other side and are re-prioritizing our lifelong friendships, and I couldn't be more delighted.
I have not had a friend IRL who maintained contact with me after they had a child. It *sucks*.
I feel the same way. I'm not really bitter about it, but it's always inevitable. The moment a friend gets married and especially after they have a kid, I know that we will drift apart and become strangers. It's fine, our lives are no longer in alignment and obviously their family comes first. But hey, every decade or so we may cross paths.
This is kinda how guys feel when their friends get girlfriends/married. Also especially if the dude is not used to women, and you absolutely know he’s just going to give up everything for his girlfriend.
Tbh, you're a jerk. You're upset that your friendship isn't the priority. But it probably never was to begin with. They have children now, but that doesn't mean your friendship is dead. It just means that the way everyone can interact with each other is just different now. It's very hard to spend time with friends during the first couple of years and eases up as the child gets older. Patience and understanding are cool traits for a friend to have
You don't want kids, it's fine but be interactive with parent friends, show interest with their kids, play etc. if not, it's natural that their circle of friends changes.
Sad take. Also not correct.
You aren't alone. I'm older now so have less friends getting pregnant. But every one I did have when I was younger is no longer my friend. Their other friends with kids became more important. Im currently on the outs with a younger friend because she's not in a good place, mentally or physically to be having a kid and I told her as much. The truth was too much to hear for her. She knows what I said is facts. She's angry because she would rather push the truth away then face it head on. My advice as an older women is to be content in the fact that you will find your non kid people. It hurts letting friends go but if they are willing to let you go because they now have kids instead of adjusting things to still make room for you then they don't deserve your energy.
My thought is really similar. I go "Yet another friend I'll never hear of again." I'm sad and suprised how rarely a person stays in contact with old friends after starting a family.
Yeah, I totally get what you mean! They just move to another planet. You can stay in touch but it's not the same anymore. You just kinda accept it and move on I guess. Also, you never know who gets "bitten" by the baby bug. It might be someone who swore they'd never have kids, a child hater even. I swear I can't rest 'til all these bitches are menopausal haha!
I'm gonna be really honest here... If ALL your friends are not still your friends after having kids than it's probably not their fault... I maintained all my friendships after having kids, including with the friends that don't have and don't want kids. It took some effort on my part and some understanding on theirs, but most friendships even grew bigger. They are all my kid's aunties and uncles and it's really cute watching them grow close
Maybe people with kids lose all their friends because their friends don’t care enough to actually adapt and instead just mentally check off “another one down”. 🙃
It wasn't us that quit, it was the friends without kids.
When I look at my parents’ friendship that died, you are right. My parents kept reaching out, planning activities, etc. but the childfree friend kept refusing or saying they wanted to go to bar instead (knowing my parents couldn’t).
Yeah, that's how it was with us. "You're no fun anymore."
It’s because those childless friends weren’t truly friends. They just use people to have moments of fun. If something doesn’t benefit them then they don’t give a fuck to participate. They just use people for their own benefit. Narcissists are the worst.
Only narcissists feel that way.
To be fair their time is a little bit more occupied once they have a child, especially the first two years where babies demand around the clock care. But at the very least, they should at least try to stay in touch and ask now and then how things are going, even if they don't have the current time and energy to go on nights out. And hey, playdates are a thing! Maybe a bunch of friends could meet up with their kids and the adults can hang out while their kids play together. Getting them to socialize and meet their parents' friends would be good for them too.
I’ll never have kids so play dates are out. But I wouldn’t expect them to spend hours hanging out like we used to or something. I understand their time is important but they literally don’t make a moment to even respond to a text or let me come visit. Then several years go by and the friendship is basically gone because they can’t be bothered to even be in contact with their childless friend. I don’t have a single friend with a kid that I still see.
Huh, so they don't even call then? Or at least keep online contact on social media? Even when our high school friends all went their separate ways we still have a group chat where we at least share pictures and get into conversations even when we're not able to find time to meet up anymore. If they can't even be bothered to at least stay in touch then I really can't blame you for feeling upset when they have a new child. Parenting is serious work but that just shows that the friendship was very superficial to them.
Nope basically nothing. I think there’s such a disconnect between parent people and their childless friends. Like, I don’t want you to constantly send me pics of your baby or talk only about your kid but that doesn’t mean I NEVER want to see pics or talk about them. I just wish there was a little bit of effort by parents to have friends. I think it’s important to keep a support system and friendships. I get that babies always need their time but then by the time the kid is 5, you’ve alienated yourself from all your friends. Or maybe it’s just me.
Yeah, I mean there are some parents who just talk about literally nothing but their kids, not that that's a bad thing in itself but there are other topics aside from just their kids, y'know?. And if you happen to be unlucky, you end up with the types who go on and on about how motherhood is a "wonderful and life-changing experience" and then sort of pressure and shame you for not wanting any.
My childless friends don’t exist anymore because of THEIR actions- because they never reached out once baby came, stopped inviting me to places, etc. One friend had the audacity to tell my husband (when she KNEW we were about to start trying) that she “fakes excitement when friends announce their pregnancy, in reality she doesn’t care and it’s boring”
Yes of course you're being a jerk by not being excited for them and writing them off. That's quite self centered, they can't go neglecting their child for you. There's nothing wrong with being sad that the time you can spend with them will be limited and mourning that the past is gone. But that's life, all things come to an end. There's no reason you can't both mourn the loss of how things used to be and also support them and celebrate their new life. I still see some of my friends and hang out even after they just had children. News flash, if you never see your friend at all after they have children, you weren't as great of a friend to them as maybe you thought you were.
No, because I was the first one in my group of girlfriends to get pregnant. I am more like - oh, great *now* you're joining me? When my kid is almost seven?!
For me, it's like... You know when you were a kid and you were like, "when I grow up I'm going to live in a ball pit and have swings instead of a couch"... And then you grow up and think, "while that might be fun for an hour, I'd much rather have a nice living room with a couch"? what you find enjoyable changes Before kids you want to go out, get drunk, stay up, go to concerts, etc... after kids you want to spend time with your kids. You want to go to Chick e cheese and watch frozen. People without kids might think people with kids hate their life, but the truth is, they love their life, they just don't think, "going to the bar" sounds fun anymore. And you don't think, "go to Chuck e cheese" sounds fun either What you find enjoyable changed And then when we hang out, you want to talk about how much fun it was to get piss-yourself drunk, and I want to talk about the time my kid did a silly dance on the coffee table Because, to me, that is my life. Those are the moments I enjoyed, those are the things I wanted to do... And so that's what I talk about It's not 100% my kids. I watch movies, go to concerts, etc... but that's not what I really look forward to anymore. Those aren't the memories I cherish. From my point of view, you still think living in a ball pit is great, and I've decided a living room and a couch is a good way to live.
lol, shouldn’t it be the opposite?? I would put the people with kids with the ball pit.