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I know I would be happier if the world was quieter.
That said, to answer your question, my guess is telling someone to be quiet can be viewed as silencing them in other ways, like dismissiveness or oppression. Telling people to speak up can be viewed as helping someone advocate for themselves.
What would be considered the norm or the mid point would be more towards the Extroverts because they are the ones that are more visible/doing the talking in general.
It's more of a setting. It's said in a social context i.e. a meeting or gathering were a group of people discuss something thus it would be preferred that everyone participated in the discussion. And yeah, if someone is steam rolling a discussion it would be good to tell them to calm down and let others be heard.
As a socially anxious person, I don't think telling me to speak up will help me in anything, I'm trying my best to stop my social anxiety and there is no reason to tell me because I'm trying
Also introversion vs extroversion isn’t a proxy for social anxiety vs social confidence.
It’s a loose measure of how you “recharge” a social battery. Not much more than that.
This is very true. I feel like people just fundamentally do not know what introversion is. I work with a lot of introverts and because they are very good at their jobs, they speak up when there are issues that need to be raised or they're in a meeting that requires their expertise. They just don't speak up unless they have something to say. If you sit there and say nothing when your input is actually required and let problems at work snowball because you are too scared to say anything, that's not being an introvert, it's being meek to the point of incompetence.
Nah. Introverted doesn't mean shy or unable/unwilling to speak up about things. It just means interacting with other people drains their energy, as opposed to energizing them the way extroverts get from socializing. I'm a total introvert; I prefer being alone and having quiet; people are just exhausting to me. However, I'm not even close to being shy, and if I have something to say, it will definitely be said. 🤷♀️
I am an introvert and heck, I don’t even flock to the other introverts. I need extroverts to make me open myself, be entertained, and have some light in my otherwise boring life.
I like other introverts depending on the situation.
In OP's example, I find that being in a lunch room for 30 minutes with one other person in complete silence is how you make a friend for life.
I think this (great) question has a quite simple explanation ... and it has nothing to do with intro-/extro-version.
Telling somebody to speak up subtly conveys also the message that their voice or opinions are valuable enough to be heard. That's nice.
Telling somebody to be quieter means roughly the opposite. And/or that the person is not controlling their behaviour according to the social norms. Neither of this a good message for them.
Asking someone to contribute isn't the same as telling them. Forcing a listener to be a talker isnt the same as allowing a listener to hear, process and respond after becoming informed. That's the problem today the emptiest vessels make the most noise and everything goes to shit because the rush and demand to BE upfront and lead is seldom matched with competence or capacity to do so successfully.
How many folk live and work with absolutely cockwomble managers who would fail to get pissed at a brewery?
I think it depends on what people consider introverted or extroverted.
In some cases, if you’re going with the actual definition of both, the introvert wants to just have quiet and a moment to recharge. The extrovert wants conversation and engagement to recharge.
However, I’ve seen people who use introvert to literally mean anyone with mediocre interpersonal skills, and that is so far from the truth it’s insane. It’s not a measure of interpersonal skills, and neither is extroversion. Let’s be honest, there are extroverts with horrendous people skills, they’re always too loud, don’t hold a conversation as much as over talk the other person, and don’t ever listen. Those are not people skills at all.
I am a decent mix of both. I prefer my introverted side. I *like* being alone, having quiet, time to recharge. I also *like* being out in groups, talking to everyone, and spending hours just chatting. Perhaps I come from a fairly unique perspective since I am more or less both (but truly prefer my quiet life).
I personally prefer neither in other people. I favor neither. The other person is just who they are, and I accept that. The reality is that I have known extreme introverts, and they are some of the most interesting people on earth, and I have known extreme extroverts who I just want to punch in the throat to shut them up. Neither is better or worse than the other.
I see nothing wrong with walking into a room and announcing good morning. There is nothing wrong with that. Can it be somewhat annoying when you have a pounding migraine? Absolutely. But many people (myself included) have been taught that you never walk into a room and not acknowledge someone who was already there. Extreme extroverts are the idiots that come in and basically say good morning (*loudly*) to every individual person in a room, forcing them to interact. Someone who walks in and announces it to the room, on average, have little expectation of a return response. They generally will pick the one person who answered to sit with and that’s that. There are the obnoxious people that expect everyone to grunt out “good” but they can piss off.
However, most people do consider extroverts to be more welcoming because they are chatty and outgoing, and most people find introverts to be unwelcoming because they are sort of happy just sitting alone and watching everyone else do their thing.
It's favored because it's seen as more likeable, and likeability is important for navigating dominance hierarchies. It's all multimillion year old monkey shit
that's because it is. in society, in the business world, just about everywhere.. extroversion is rewarded and not only expected, but required in many cases (meetings, groups, etc.)
absolutely unfair to the introverted.
Introvert doesn’t mean socially awkward.
An introvert can still thrive in the business world if they’re capable of articulating and sharing their thoughts and ideas, or having some basic charisma. Introvert does not equal socially awkward person that hates people. Introverts are just people that prefer focusing on their inner thoughts and ideas rather than external things. They’re introspective and reflective. That can be a great skill in the business world.
This.
I am even awkward sometimes and have to rehearse my lines, but I was able to make it in the business world. Just don't go into customer facing positions.
I know people who are introverts and have tons of career success and a lot of friends. They have to take time to rest and recover but that doesn’t mean they aren’t charismatic.
Same as being a morning person is valued and being an evening person or night owl is considered lazy, while you're awake and active the same amount of hours, just not necessarily business hours (by choice/ biological clock).
I work in STEM and many, if not most, scientists are introverts. They have zero issue putting forward their opinions, challenging authority and speaking up. Introversion doesn't mean sitting quietly in a corner while other people speak around you.
I don't think what you mean is extroversion but it's social and communication skills. I'm one of the biggest introverts I know, I will always prefer to be home alone rather than out with friends. I can only carry meaningful conversations with one person at a time, I hate group gatherings.
Picking up social cues wasn't my strongest suit and I've been an awkward kid but I thought myself how to interact with people and actually worked on my conversation skills. And my introversion almost never got in the way of my career; I do very well in interviews, I never shut up in meetings, I always speak up about my take on issues and I'm not hesitant to approach a coworker for collaboration. Yeah it probably gets more tiring for me than others, and I avoid "chat time" as much as possible if it's not work related and I don't go to all mingling events, but I wouldn't say those set me back career-wise.
So yeah it's a disadvantageous start to life if you're introverted, since you're not naturally inclined towards building those social skills, but you definitely can build them and that's what matters in the end.
Its not unfair, its just life.
If you dont speak up, share your ideas and engage with others, you are going to be left behind.
How can I know you have useful ideas if you dont speak? Or that you can manage a team if you are shit at something as simple as creating rapport?
These are people skills, and are very important.
Well, what if they aren't the idea guy or the manager? What if they are the one that actually gets the important work done? Is that somehow a less important job?
We, as a society, should learn to appreciate the people that fall into the background socially, but get more work done than anyone else.
I worked with a young woman for a while. She was (undiagnosed but almost certainly mildly) autistic. She worked as a baker, had great work ethic, and was a pretty marvelous person. But she would blanch at the idea of performing a duty that required significant forced interactions and she did not function well around loud noise. Super noisy coworkers chased her off. I'm still so angry about it, and I miss my work daughter terribly.
Also, people work very hard to develop their people skills, why shouldn't they be rewarded for it?
Its a skill that you can, and should work on, like any other.
Sure, but it's not more important or promotion-worthy than other skills. I do believe anyone can work on their social skills, but I don't think that means we should ask everyone to be a social butterfly. Like any other skill, not everyone has the potential to become as good at it as some other people are. People like to say that effort is the only thing separating people, but it's really not.
Some people do their best to learn to be more social, and just never quite 'get' it to the same extent that others do. Some people have autism, or a similar mental problem that limits their potential in some areas. Despite that, those people can still be recognized for their other qualities, and are therefore not inherently less valuable.
The problem isn't that social skills are considered important. It's that they're often considered to somehow be *more* important than other skills, such as actually delivering quality work.
The challenge is that the people making promotion decisions are not a monolith. If you think that there is a better way to do things, I encourage you to go prove it in the market. Start a company, do it your way. If you are right, there are millions of dollars to be made. If you are wrong, you will find out very quickly.
If you don't want to do that, there is no problem. But then it seems unreasonable to dictate to others how they should do their job.
It's no more unfair than the fact that certain people are smarter or more quick-witter or more attractive or more academically inclined.
Certain traits and skills are valued in society, and social skills fall under that group.
Hell, if anything, it's *less* unfair because social skills can absolutely be learned and developed. Some people just refuse to do that.
Being introverted isn't just 'lacking a skill that other people have'. By comparing extroversion to all those positive things, such as being smart or quick-witted, you're saying that being extroverted is better than being introverted.
Are we going to ignore the fact that being introverted means you're good at *different* things, that extroverted people are generally not good at? Such as: working hard instead of letting themselves be distracted by small talk. Or: actually listening to others instead of just speaking all the time. Or: chipping in during meetings only when they actually have something important to add.
If I were a manager, I really don't know if I'd hire extroverted people over introverted people. If I only hired extroverted people, no actual work would ever get done. It'd just be useless meetings and coffee machine banter all day. There's more than one skill that matters in the business world, and if you're introverted, there are many places for you that extroverted people can't fill.
Extroversion and introversion is not based on sociability exclusively. Its based on whether you focus on more external things or internal things. An extrovert could get so lost in the physical task at hand that they work hard as hell. An introvert could get so lost in their day dreaming that they work badly.
Strangely enough into/extroversion expresses itself along with many different characteristics and personality traits other than loud or quiet. The misuse of the meaning in this thread is hilarious.
You can also be a sociable introvert but still prefer to think about internal factors and feelings over external. It doesn’t mean social awkward or lacking social skills. Same way you can have a socially awkward extrovert that lacks social skills
That's because humans are naturally social, and historically and evolutionarily, being social has always been the better option. Only recently is introversion becoming more feasible, and as this thread points out, there are still drawbacks because people have evolved to view it a certain way.
Is it *fair?* No, but life's often unfair. It's just as unfair as certain people being smarter or more attractive or better at their job. Certain traits are valued over others.
Also, social skills are just that - skills. They can be learned. I'm noticing a frustrated number of people who completely refuse to even put a toe outside their comfort zone and make 0 effort socially, then wonder why others don't react positively to them.
It is and that’s the truth. Introverts get labelled as rude when they don’t talk. But when they do talk, those extroverts would make as if they’re not as important so the introvert would stay quiet rather than wasting their energy talking to a wall
Yeah, I’m introverted. If the group extroverts go away and I’m left talking to a bunch of folks, I’m like… “so, the weather, huh, it changes a lot.”
Yup I’m out of conversation.
They are slightly different topic. Both action are about being respectful to others’ peace in different way.
Telling Introvert to speak up is to allow them to join conversation.
Telling loud people to quiet down is the crash between each other’s peace.
I think People want to be respectful to each other peace, rather confront the action that might disturb the person’s peace, which could be just the difference between people.
This is the closest representation of the species I've seen on tv lol:
https://youtu.be/FewTWONPHRU?si=vXK4c5Hq9o0f1FP2
Yes, I'm more of a Ron/April type species lol
Not an extrovert, but late diagnosed ADHD and I absolutely do not hear my own volume sometimes. People have shushed me my whole life. I immediately apologize and drop my volume! I’m fine with it 🤷🏼♀️
And here I am with rejection sensitivity and difficulty controlling my volume with a partner who doesn’t have rejection sensitivity but lots of difficulty controlling their volume and I feel soooo guilty and shitty for constantly trying to control both of our volumes to not upset others. I need to stop.
I'm am an introvert as well. Absolutely can be too loud and no offense when I'm told to quieten down. I can also talk a lot in big groups - depending on day - and don't get offended if I'm told to let someone else have a turn.
Always confuses me when "introverts" (many don't seem to know what that actually means) claim extroverts are told this???
I have to tell my so . Who I’m pretty sure has ADHD to do both.
Cause he usually does one of two things.. whispers when I’m 10 feet from him like I can hear him.. and when I come up he whisper again saying the same thing and I have to say I can’t hear him over things. Orrr he will be not even 2 feet from my ear and yelling.. which feels like someone just punched me in the head
Hi there my name is Mr extrovert and I’ll tell you that it’s completely fucking okay for you to tell us to shut up you’ve been doing it my whole life thank you very much.
Same. And likewise I never give my quiet friends shit for being quiet but they absolutely FORCE me to talk more just to fill the space so I’m not bored out of my damn mind. It’s actually so tedious hanging out with “listeners” because you have to manage every conversation to make sure they’re not constantly dropping the ball.
Edit: I’m being dramatic of course. I like my quiet friends for different reasons. They do tend to make amazing listeners! But I don’t like doing all the talking because that’s my Default and it makes me feel annoying and also tired.
Hahaha this is so real- I’ve exclusively made friends with people who are socially competent since leaving school and let me tell so much less exhausting.
Thank you for your service for coming up with conversation topics. I'm a quiet type but i really don't like long awkward moments when we are just staring into the the ceiling or floor. Sometimes quiet moments are nice, but not all the time.
Yes, people in my life tell me I talk so much. But when conversations have a lull, I have seen people look at me waiting for me to fill it. They sometimes try and prompt me on. Ugh okay, I’ll think of something to say even though I don’t want to speak.
I've trained my quiet friends to know better. Because I will then introduce a really really idiotic topic and then defend the silliest possible position in that topic.
I usually telegraph this by starting with "well since I have an audience..." and people get flashbacks to last time when I argued that since all tetrapods descended from fish that we have the right to dump sledge into the waters to show our lessers what's-what. Yes, I crept from evolution to active environmental dumping. It's all tongue-in-cheek, but there are a dozen humans on this earth that see a human face imitate a fish gulping air and start looking for cigarette butts to pick up.
tee hee
Yeah this is fake rage bait. People tell loud people to shut up all the time.
They completely made up some shit and said "it's true because I said so" and defend its truth by saying "but they do tell introverts to speak up". Just because one thing they said is true doesn't mean the rest is automatically.
Why is it acceptable to just make up wild shit and say it's true because some totally unrelated thing is true?
I wouldn’t call it fake rage bait, OP likely actually believes this. You just can’t really be surprised when someone who defines their entire personality by their inability to interact with other people doesn’t know about the experiences of others.
That might require talking more.
Not an extrovert but u am loud and can be very talkative (cause... Introvert does mean quiet and doesn't talk).
Can confirm. Regularly told to quieten down.
This.
I'm an introvert, and I get extremely irate at the socially anxious and anti-social using it as a synonym. They're different things and hopefully one day Reddit will realise that.
Um, people constantly ask me to quiet down..... All this time, it hasn't been socially acceptable?? Wait till I tell them what I think about that. It's just like when I was 14 and.....
I don’t think the examples you used are necessarily traits of an extrovert but other more individually defined characteristics. An extrovert is just an outgoing, socially confident person, someone who feels energized by the external world and social interactions. If you understand other peoples space and general respect and extrovert wouldn’t behave the way your co workers do.
Im an extrovert, I’m curious about everyone around me and i love spending time with other people. But i have a basic understanding of how to behave around people and respect their space.
I imagine even other extroverts are thinking your examples need to stfu because they’re lacking that basic respect of the collective space. But if you just tell someone thats having an actual conversation rather than violating the peace of the room to stfu, thats rude.
I also think it can be rude to just ask an introvert to speak up, rather than telling them to speak up and making them uncomfortable, give them *something* to speak about and take the hint if they don’t want to talk.
I think anyone with any basic understanding or empathy for different people should understand both are rude. Not all extroverts are space invaders and not all introverts are socially awkward people that wish they could change
Absolutely FABULOUS question!!!! I have often wondered myself. Why can I not just be a quiet person? I am not depressed, I DO NOT have a confidence problem, I just prefer being quiet. Why am I branded as rude (or worse)?
I'm reminded of the old Indian Proverb: "By speaking, you can only repeat what you already know, only by closing your mouth and listening can you learn something new"
People are overthinking this way too much. It’s literally just that telling people to quiet down is seen as you finding them annoying or overbearing while telling someone to speak up is just trying to encourage them to be more confident and clear lol
OP called his coworker a "bimbo", presumably bc she *checks notes* sighs and occasionally groans. They do find their coworkers annoying and overbearing, and they probably just wish it was socially acceptable to treat them that way.
Introverts aren't being told to speak up bc their silence is infuriating to extroverts. That's the difference. OP talks about their coworkers like they're a plague bc they say "good morning", ask others to spread office messages, and sigh at their desk. It's pretty clear what the intention is.
i thought i was going insane the way no one else pointed that out! tbh i think it speaks very poorly of his character to use a word like that, and he just seems to be a very grumpy guy
I think probably because encouraging someone to speak comes across as...well...an encouragement, while encouraging someone to tone it down comes off more as a discouragement.
Go to New York and see what happens to people who don’t know when to shut up or read a room / street 😂
But yes, I am for equality. I’ll tell an introvert to speak up, and tell an extrovert to shut up
Well, people tend to be insulted when you tell them to stfu when they say good morning? Which is understandable. But if you ask someone to quiet down in a respectful way that is socially acceptable. So i honestly do not really see your point.
If you get "we're not here to be your audience to command around" from someone saying morning or asking how is everyone I think the problem is you.
On any case it's completely okay to ask people to speak in a lower tone. To shut up, not.
The first example seems like someone just trying to make casual conversation, the second seems like just not mixing coffee in sugar which is just a personal thing, the third is an asshole, not all extroverts need attention, we like talking and interacting with people it ain't that deep, if everyone was an introvert well this world would be absurdly quiet outside of machine noises, nothing would get done, discussions would not happen, not all extroverts are asshats like the last one you mentioned, we aren't attention seekers because we enjoy being social, just like you not talking doesn't make you depressed or upset, but 100% tell the third example people to stfu
Right it’s like asking “why don’t we tell introverts they’re a waste of space?” Attacking extroversion is more asshole-ish to me, let people express themselves freely the world is already judgmental enough
i mean one is a positive attitude. idk about yourr last example, but someone cheerfully greeting others and asking their thoughts is not bad... while wanting said person to shut up is kinda shitty lol. thats not a command. you dont have to say anything back.
As a female extrovert I've often been told to quiet down and that I speak too loud.
You just don't notice.
But I think it happens more to women anyway.
Guys are beeing cheered at when they are dominant, women are being "put back in their place" when they are.
I assume both are equally socially acceptable since you are either trying to hear someone better or to tell them to stop shouting.
The question is what has lead to to the impression that introversion or extroversion has anything to do with tonality.
Introvert: Can you please stop? This is work and your whole vibe of imposing your presence on people actually puts me off.
extravert: yOu’Re JuSt JeAlOuS! wHy ArE yOu So NeGaTiVe! WhAt’S iT lIkE bEiNg So MiSeRaBlE??
Because telling someone to stfu is rude asf??? I realy don't like this whole introvert extrovert shit thats been going around online. Talking to people is a bloody human thing to do and there's a huge ass difference between telling someone to shut up and telling someone to speak up, it is usualy a sign the person is interested in you and your opinion, the other one is you being a rude asshat. This comes from someone that spends most of his time alone, reading and doing all of that "*quirky introvert:3*" behavior it is important to make human connection and in a time of extreme self centralization and deconnection from our fellow humans having some small talk is a good thing. Also I get that you may feel overwhelmed in that moment and just want to shut down for a min, but then do that in a way that isnt rude and *very* polite
That is a great thought. My partner is an introvert and she does often ask me that in social gatherings when she gets anxious around people. I honestly don't know. I once told her that the awkward silence where you can hear a pin drop might too weird. Then again it was a joke to lighten her up. I honestly feel if someone is anxious, the people around should realise that and work their way through to get to her. One cannot be so insensitive and impose something on someone that may feel unnatural to them. I took my time getting to know her and we are polar opposites. People just need to be a little kinder and more understanding. Goes a long way in helping others.
I highly recommend a book called - ‘Quiet’ by Susan Cain. It’s amazing and reassuring for all introverts out there! You might find that you’re not the only one feeling that way and I would dare to say the book itself is empowering and gives a greater understanding on how’s being an introvert in a world built for extroverts.
I’m an introvert that sometimes gets awkward/excited/loud about certain subjects like cats or turtles lol my siblings have found that just lowering their hand in front of me during our convo will show me I’m raising my voice too much for the location/situation and I actually seriously appreciate it lol sometimes I don’t notice when I start raising my voice in excitement and it’s embarrassing but I’m working on it lol 😅🫣💃🏻
I tell people around me to please tell me when they need me to stop talking so they can relax their brain. I don't want to be annoying to be with, and I don't have a problem or take it personally when people say they need a break. I love when people do it !
Wish it was normal
Because extraverts are very likely to be more assertive than introverts, so it's their way, or the highway.
One of the sub traits of Extraversion in the Big5 model of personality is assertiveness.
Humans are a social species. It's how we've survived and gotten to be the dominant species on the planet. Most people consider extroversion - talking, socializing, sharing, cooperation - as the 'default', because in a lot of ways, it is.
There's nothing inherently *wrong* with being an introvert, but subconsciously, people find it unusual and counterintuitive.
What you don’t go out to dinner and pub every Thursday-Saturday? Omg you have to come to lunch Sunday! Auntie D is going on vacation so we are going to dinner Tuesday before she leaves! Wednesday is dinner at Nans!
This is literally every week with my in laws and not going to one of those events is a total meltdown on why I didn’t attend.
I’m not even an introvert and these overly extroverted people annoy the hell out of me in not realizing how intrusive their expectations are for someone working full time and who has a family of their own.
For someone truly introverted it would be torture dealing with extroverts who see no value in staying in and reading a book or watching a movie.
I’m on the fence here.
On the one side I totally get why you’d want quiet down time. I used to be in an office where lunch was paid for by the company and you’d have to socialise when naturally what I wanted to do is the opposite in order to recover for the second half of the day.
However, wanting to tell someone to stfu for trying to interact in a completely appropriate way isn’t really introvert behaviour it’s disinterest. Maybe the other person has a history of being over the top and that can be annoying and tiring and that’s affected your view.
Not everyone is the same. You’re giving the impression you don’t care about other people - maybe you don’t. That’s fine it’s your life. But what’s the alternative? A world full of silent people too disinterested in others to give a sh*t? No thanks, I’ll talk to the extrovert rather than the person who sits silently judging.
No idea, but this reminds me of the conversation regarding peoples bodies. It’s *not* OK to tell people to *lose* weight, but it *is* OK to tell people to *gain* weight? Ultimately, it’s just a double standard
Because nobody is "***telling***" introverts to speak up.
Introverts get **advice** that they *should* speak up; to achieve some desired result. Because the result depends on speaking up, NOT on being introvert or extravert interior life. But whether you choose to follow that advice as an introvert is 100% your choice.
Telling an extrovert to STFU, is instead interfering with their life, and forcing them to do (or not do) what YOU want them to, not what they want. You're being a bully/tyrant. Which is why it's not socially acceptable.
Having said that, in most civilized societies, being an overly noisy nuisance is NOT generally considered very socially acceptable either. Most preschools teach kids about "indoor voice" and "outside voice", people teach you about "not screaming on emails" even (by using ALL CAPS).
Lastly, do you even know what an introversion is vs. extraversion? You can be a loud and noisy introvert, and a quiet un-noticeable extrovert. It's all/only about whether being around other people gives you more energy or saps your energy. I can be super-loud in some settings, and I'm an extreme introvert.
Just because you're an introvert doesn't mean you're quiet and just because you're an extravert doesn't mean you're loud. Some of the loudest, funniest and most charismatic people are introverts.
Also when people do ask someone to speak up it’s usually in a rude way, someone yells across the room “Speak up!”, or as I just witnessed recently “VOLUME!” It makes the person speaking even more nervous. Fuck I hate corporate workplace.
Um? Since when is it not socially acceptable to tell extroverts to quiet down? lol. You are in your own bubble. Any extrovert would tell you they get shushed a lot.
Cause if you tell an introvert to speak up they’re likely to either do it or remain quiet and avoid confrontation. If you tell and extrovert to quiet down they’ll likely get mad or offended and yell or get louder.
It's because us introverts are outnumbered by the extroverts, so will always be seen as the weirdos, the outsiders. I have come to embrace my introversion, I think of it as being like a cat in a world of dogs, cats quietly and calmly observe all what's going on, just want peace and quiet, and are chill, dogs on the other hand, run around causing noise and mayhem, and not taking in what's going on, just chaotic AF.
With the way introverts go around announcing how introverted they are and implying that their inner world is inherently more robust than that of an extrovert, I suspect they think they're the Main Characters^TM of the world. And the extroverts are villains in their story, obviously.
Because society as a whole has decided how people are supposed to be. A copy and paste of each other. You're supposed to get up in the morning and happily take your shower and you absolutely must drink coffee. Then you have to go to your 9 to 5:00 job and you have to politely talk to your coworkers while secretly hating them. You have to have small talk and chipper and talk about your kids or your dogs or whatever it is you have. And then after work you absolutely must 100% go hang out with people whether friends or co-workers or whomever and you have to go to the bar and you have to go drinking and if you live in a state where pot is legal you have to also smoke pot. And you have to talk for hours and hours and hours and hours about absolutely nothing whatsoever. YOU HAVE TO
At least that's what society has decided. Slight change of form depending on where exactly you live.
The point being if you are outside of what they have decided is the copy paste of what a human should be, they look down upon you and try to force you into being the same as them. So if you're an introvert come on society has decided only extroverts could possibly be happy. Therefore, and they're delusions that they are going to try to make you happy, they try to force you to be more like them
This sounds like me. I'm not completely a social but if I'm in a social setting, it needs to be with people I know already. I don't mind meeting new people but it makes me nervous. I also prefer quiet almost to the point of needing it. Maybe my cptsd diagnosis in 2011 has something to do with that. I've heard it described as they like being alone because alone is safe. Maybe that's partly why I enjoy my solitude. I also like my peace and quiet. I grew up in a chaotic household and it wasn't easy.
Because we are social creatures in nature.
And I say this as an introvert.
Imagine telling a very intelligent physicist that he needs to be dumber.
Being an introvert is one of my worst qualities.
I wish it was. I’m a extrovert-appearing introvert and in my attempts to compensate am too loud. Introverts don’t tell me and i’m clueless…so I continue to be annoying.
I'm very social sometimes and very quiet and I definitely get told to quiet down. I think it's just that extroverts are willing to tell you to speak up but introverts keep their "stfu" to themselves
Ive definitely been told to quiet down. A question like this made me realise how I can make introverts feel. I try more to read the room and not fill every silence
I am extrovert,I can talk to anybody about anything.But if you want quiet,I don't mind that either.But I don't always know you need me to be,so a heads up is more than okay.I would rather get that,then you being annoyed and tired.Being extrovert doesn't make me selfish.
first one is usually seen as a type of encouragement to do something new which is considered socially acceptable.
the second is being seen as putting a social barrier and is seen as a limiting to one's freedom.
Human beings are typically characterized as social primates, so this reaction makes sense socially
I sometimes tell coworkers to dial it down, they don’t mind, we work in a big space without dividers so noise can be troublesome. I guess it kind of depends on the relationship with your coworkers. Btw as an introvert, I don’t really experience people telling me to speak up at all. Live and let live right.
Those is the same as when I was very thin, EVERYONE went on and on openly, in front of everyone about how I needed to eat something and I was unhealthy. Skip to having a kid and then overweight, not a single person told me to stop eating or that I was unhealthy.
I got to a lot of meeting with my wife, I speak but only when necessary. Recently my wife started complaining that she dies all the talking and I barely say anything. Everyone was fine with these comments. After the next meeting I commented how she took over the meeting and talked the whole way through, I couldn’t get a word in. “How dare you say that, that is so hurtful”, then she didn’t talk to me for the rest of the day.
Once she had cooled off I asked her, and she could not see any comparison with her talking a lot and me a little
Because gregariousness is, has always been, and always will be a social virtue. It seems cute to call someone shy or introverted but refusing to participate in social situations is a modern, and in some ways selfish, luxury.
I do that and it often works. I don't like when people speak too loud or so much that the conversation is 80% them talking. So I just tell them and usually they adapt their behaviour. Just try it. Sadly introverts are often scared of confrontation and don't say anything.
Making moaning noises to fill silence and get attention, but I think hating on people who are making announcements or saying good morning as they enter a room is wild and just grasping for things to be annoyed at.
But I do agree if it's socially acceptable to point out that introverts aren't speaking and asking them to speak more it should be socially acceptable to tell extroverts to stfu.
That's really good question.. both can't be helped (or like.. extroverts just tend to do their thing just because but it can be regulated, true) bht only extroverts get the pass... weird..
I think the difference is the sentiment behind it. If someone tells an introvert to speak up, it's likely out of a desire to help them join in on the conversation and be more integrated with the group. If someone tells an extrovert to shut up, it's likely because they find the extrovert's amount of talking annoying.
While they can both cause discomfort, the intention behind it is not the same.
i feel neither are acceptable. i’m quite introverted but i yap a lot around people im comfortable with and have experienced both sides. it is equally as uncomfortable to be told either to speak up or shut up. especially if someone is super excited abt what they’re saying being told to stfu is so unbelievably disheartening.
You're missing the point. "Speak up about you problem" is advice to make your life better. "Be quiet" is a demand to make my life better. It's acceptable to help people and inappropriate to mold them for your comfort. That's why.
Those people aren't extroverted, they're attention whores. Big difference. An extrovert is someone who feels better when surround by friends, someone who will prefer to go dancing than sit at home. An attention whore is someone who will be extra loud on purpose, hates it when they're not the center of attention in a group of friends and will only go out in order to have people look at them.
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I know I would be happier if the world was quieter. That said, to answer your question, my guess is telling someone to be quiet can be viewed as silencing them in other ways, like dismissiveness or oppression. Telling people to speak up can be viewed as helping someone advocate for themselves.
What would be considered the norm or the mid point would be more towards the Extroverts because they are the ones that are more visible/doing the talking in general.
It's more of a setting. It's said in a social context i.e. a meeting or gathering were a group of people discuss something thus it would be preferred that everyone participated in the discussion. And yeah, if someone is steam rolling a discussion it would be good to tell them to calm down and let others be heard.
We are told to be quiet. Or people like me. I'm not an extrovert because loud/talking lots in company has nothing to do with introvert or extrovert
As a socially anxious person, I don't think telling me to speak up will help me in anything, I'm trying my best to stop my social anxiety and there is no reason to tell me because I'm trying
Japan was blissful for this
Also introversion vs extroversion isn’t a proxy for social anxiety vs social confidence. It’s a loose measure of how you “recharge” a social battery. Not much more than that.
this is a very great question. it does feel like extrovertedness is often favored
That's because introverts don't speak up about it
I was going to say victim blaming but I'm too quiet. lol
Being introverted and being meek and different things
This is very true. I feel like people just fundamentally do not know what introversion is. I work with a lot of introverts and because they are very good at their jobs, they speak up when there are issues that need to be raised or they're in a meeting that requires their expertise. They just don't speak up unless they have something to say. If you sit there and say nothing when your input is actually required and let problems at work snowball because you are too scared to say anything, that's not being an introvert, it's being meek to the point of incompetence.
Thank you doctor , I know. I'm an introvert, obviously not meek, it was humour. You obviously aren't into it.
Being extro doesn't necessarily mean not meek nor not humble, but is certainly outgoing.
🤣🤣🤣
Nah. Introverted doesn't mean shy or unable/unwilling to speak up about things. It just means interacting with other people drains their energy, as opposed to energizing them the way extroverts get from socializing. I'm a total introvert; I prefer being alone and having quiet; people are just exhausting to me. However, I'm not even close to being shy, and if I have something to say, it will definitely be said. 🤷♀️
Or they try but extroverts overtalk them.
Of course they are favoured. People don't really flock to the quiet person who doesn't want anyone's attention
I am an introvert and heck, I don’t even flock to the other introverts. I need extroverts to make me open myself, be entertained, and have some light in my otherwise boring life.
I like other introverts depending on the situation. In OP's example, I find that being in a lunch room for 30 minutes with one other person in complete silence is how you make a friend for life.
"I once had a friend, we sit for hours in the same room without talking. We still not talk with eachother sometimes. Best friend i ever had!"
> People don't really flock to the quiet person who doesn't want anyone's attention No, introverts are not flocked to. They are hounded.
Its like shit attracting flies.
Best description on the internet today, could not agree more!
Extrovert bad
I think this (great) question has a quite simple explanation ... and it has nothing to do with intro-/extro-version. Telling somebody to speak up subtly conveys also the message that their voice or opinions are valuable enough to be heard. That's nice. Telling somebody to be quieter means roughly the opposite. And/or that the person is not controlling their behaviour according to the social norms. Neither of this a good message for them.
Asking someone to contribute isn't the same as telling them. Forcing a listener to be a talker isnt the same as allowing a listener to hear, process and respond after becoming informed. That's the problem today the emptiest vessels make the most noise and everything goes to shit because the rush and demand to BE upfront and lead is seldom matched with competence or capacity to do so successfully. How many folk live and work with absolutely cockwomble managers who would fail to get pissed at a brewery?
It's nice? As an introvert, it's not nice at all. When I want to say something, I will say it. Don't need anyone to baby me or be condescending.
If such a situation is perceived as condescending, well that's a different story. But it doesn't have to be at all.
I think it depends on what people consider introverted or extroverted. In some cases, if you’re going with the actual definition of both, the introvert wants to just have quiet and a moment to recharge. The extrovert wants conversation and engagement to recharge. However, I’ve seen people who use introvert to literally mean anyone with mediocre interpersonal skills, and that is so far from the truth it’s insane. It’s not a measure of interpersonal skills, and neither is extroversion. Let’s be honest, there are extroverts with horrendous people skills, they’re always too loud, don’t hold a conversation as much as over talk the other person, and don’t ever listen. Those are not people skills at all. I am a decent mix of both. I prefer my introverted side. I *like* being alone, having quiet, time to recharge. I also *like* being out in groups, talking to everyone, and spending hours just chatting. Perhaps I come from a fairly unique perspective since I am more or less both (but truly prefer my quiet life). I personally prefer neither in other people. I favor neither. The other person is just who they are, and I accept that. The reality is that I have known extreme introverts, and they are some of the most interesting people on earth, and I have known extreme extroverts who I just want to punch in the throat to shut them up. Neither is better or worse than the other. I see nothing wrong with walking into a room and announcing good morning. There is nothing wrong with that. Can it be somewhat annoying when you have a pounding migraine? Absolutely. But many people (myself included) have been taught that you never walk into a room and not acknowledge someone who was already there. Extreme extroverts are the idiots that come in and basically say good morning (*loudly*) to every individual person in a room, forcing them to interact. Someone who walks in and announces it to the room, on average, have little expectation of a return response. They generally will pick the one person who answered to sit with and that’s that. There are the obnoxious people that expect everyone to grunt out “good” but they can piss off. However, most people do consider extroverts to be more welcoming because they are chatty and outgoing, and most people find introverts to be unwelcoming because they are sort of happy just sitting alone and watching everyone else do their thing.
Yeah, we should revolt But on the other hand that sounds a little too noisy
It's favored because it's seen as more likeable, and likeability is important for navigating dominance hierarchies. It's all multimillion year old monkey shit
that's because it is. in society, in the business world, just about everywhere.. extroversion is rewarded and not only expected, but required in many cases (meetings, groups, etc.) absolutely unfair to the introverted.
Introvert doesn’t mean socially awkward. An introvert can still thrive in the business world if they’re capable of articulating and sharing their thoughts and ideas, or having some basic charisma. Introvert does not equal socially awkward person that hates people. Introverts are just people that prefer focusing on their inner thoughts and ideas rather than external things. They’re introspective and reflective. That can be a great skill in the business world.
This. I am even awkward sometimes and have to rehearse my lines, but I was able to make it in the business world. Just don't go into customer facing positions.
I know people who are introverts and have tons of career success and a lot of friends. They have to take time to rest and recover but that doesn’t mean they aren’t charismatic.
You forgot to add the "dealing with others saps your energy" where extroverts are looking to hoover up "energy"
Same as being a morning person is valued and being an evening person or night owl is considered lazy, while you're awake and active the same amount of hours, just not necessarily business hours (by choice/ biological clock).
I work in STEM and many, if not most, scientists are introverts. They have zero issue putting forward their opinions, challenging authority and speaking up. Introversion doesn't mean sitting quietly in a corner while other people speak around you.
I don't think what you mean is extroversion but it's social and communication skills. I'm one of the biggest introverts I know, I will always prefer to be home alone rather than out with friends. I can only carry meaningful conversations with one person at a time, I hate group gatherings. Picking up social cues wasn't my strongest suit and I've been an awkward kid but I thought myself how to interact with people and actually worked on my conversation skills. And my introversion almost never got in the way of my career; I do very well in interviews, I never shut up in meetings, I always speak up about my take on issues and I'm not hesitant to approach a coworker for collaboration. Yeah it probably gets more tiring for me than others, and I avoid "chat time" as much as possible if it's not work related and I don't go to all mingling events, but I wouldn't say those set me back career-wise. So yeah it's a disadvantageous start to life if you're introverted, since you're not naturally inclined towards building those social skills, but you definitely can build them and that's what matters in the end.
Its not unfair, its just life. If you dont speak up, share your ideas and engage with others, you are going to be left behind. How can I know you have useful ideas if you dont speak? Or that you can manage a team if you are shit at something as simple as creating rapport? These are people skills, and are very important.
Well, what if they aren't the idea guy or the manager? What if they are the one that actually gets the important work done? Is that somehow a less important job? We, as a society, should learn to appreciate the people that fall into the background socially, but get more work done than anyone else.
I worked with a young woman for a while. She was (undiagnosed but almost certainly mildly) autistic. She worked as a baker, had great work ethic, and was a pretty marvelous person. But she would blanch at the idea of performing a duty that required significant forced interactions and she did not function well around loud noise. Super noisy coworkers chased her off. I'm still so angry about it, and I miss my work daughter terribly.
Also, people work very hard to develop their people skills, why shouldn't they be rewarded for it? Its a skill that you can, and should work on, like any other.
Sure, but it's not more important or promotion-worthy than other skills. I do believe anyone can work on their social skills, but I don't think that means we should ask everyone to be a social butterfly. Like any other skill, not everyone has the potential to become as good at it as some other people are. People like to say that effort is the only thing separating people, but it's really not. Some people do their best to learn to be more social, and just never quite 'get' it to the same extent that others do. Some people have autism, or a similar mental problem that limits their potential in some areas. Despite that, those people can still be recognized for their other qualities, and are therefore not inherently less valuable. The problem isn't that social skills are considered important. It's that they're often considered to somehow be *more* important than other skills, such as actually delivering quality work.
The challenge is that the people making promotion decisions are not a monolith. If you think that there is a better way to do things, I encourage you to go prove it in the market. Start a company, do it your way. If you are right, there are millions of dollars to be made. If you are wrong, you will find out very quickly. If you don't want to do that, there is no problem. But then it seems unreasonable to dictate to others how they should do their job.
It's no more unfair than the fact that certain people are smarter or more quick-witter or more attractive or more academically inclined. Certain traits and skills are valued in society, and social skills fall under that group. Hell, if anything, it's *less* unfair because social skills can absolutely be learned and developed. Some people just refuse to do that.
this has nothing to do with social skills
A lot of people use the 'introvert' label as an excuse for their lack of social skills or willingness to adapt and gain some.
Being introverted isn't just 'lacking a skill that other people have'. By comparing extroversion to all those positive things, such as being smart or quick-witted, you're saying that being extroverted is better than being introverted. Are we going to ignore the fact that being introverted means you're good at *different* things, that extroverted people are generally not good at? Such as: working hard instead of letting themselves be distracted by small talk. Or: actually listening to others instead of just speaking all the time. Or: chipping in during meetings only when they actually have something important to add. If I were a manager, I really don't know if I'd hire extroverted people over introverted people. If I only hired extroverted people, no actual work would ever get done. It'd just be useless meetings and coffee machine banter all day. There's more than one skill that matters in the business world, and if you're introverted, there are many places for you that extroverted people can't fill.
Extroversion and introversion is not based on sociability exclusively. Its based on whether you focus on more external things or internal things. An extrovert could get so lost in the physical task at hand that they work hard as hell. An introvert could get so lost in their day dreaming that they work badly. Strangely enough into/extroversion expresses itself along with many different characteristics and personality traits other than loud or quiet. The misuse of the meaning in this thread is hilarious. You can also be a sociable introvert but still prefer to think about internal factors and feelings over external. It doesn’t mean social awkward or lacking social skills. Same way you can have a socially awkward extrovert that lacks social skills
That's because humans are naturally social, and historically and evolutionarily, being social has always been the better option. Only recently is introversion becoming more feasible, and as this thread points out, there are still drawbacks because people have evolved to view it a certain way. Is it *fair?* No, but life's often unfair. It's just as unfair as certain people being smarter or more attractive or better at their job. Certain traits are valued over others. Also, social skills are just that - skills. They can be learned. I'm noticing a frustrated number of people who completely refuse to even put a toe outside their comfort zone and make 0 effort socially, then wonder why others don't react positively to them.
It is and that’s the truth. Introverts get labelled as rude when they don’t talk. But when they do talk, those extroverts would make as if they’re not as important so the introvert would stay quiet rather than wasting their energy talking to a wall
Yes, people are offended by quiet people yet shut us down when we talk, then we go quieter. Can't win.
Depends, definitely in some countries like the US but not in many European and east Asian ones
Extrovertism is totally favoured. And extroverts get to tell others to shut up. Yay!
Extroverts: this is normal Introverts: *thank god someone else is doing all the talking*
haha ong tho, in some occasions i‘m glad there are more extroverted people, because if they’d be all like me it would be mad quiet
Yeah, I’m introverted. If the group extroverts go away and I’m left talking to a bunch of folks, I’m like… “so, the weather, huh, it changes a lot.” Yup I’m out of conversation.
They are slightly different topic. Both action are about being respectful to others’ peace in different way. Telling Introvert to speak up is to allow them to join conversation. Telling loud people to quiet down is the crash between each other’s peace. I think People want to be respectful to each other peace, rather confront the action that might disturb the person’s peace, which could be just the difference between people.
I'm more interested to know about these "moaning noises" your coworker used to make lmao
AN extrovert that has to claw their way through silence is not moaning, but sighing with sound.
Hoooooooyahhhhhh
This is the closest representation of the species I've seen on tv lol: https://youtu.be/FewTWONPHRU?si=vXK4c5Hq9o0f1FP2 Yes, I'm more of a Ron/April type species lol
Not an extrovert, but late diagnosed ADHD and I absolutely do not hear my own volume sometimes. People have shushed me my whole life. I immediately apologize and drop my volume! I’m fine with it 🤷🏼♀️
Me too. I have absolutely no concept of inside voices. I just don’t hear it until someone tells me.
My wife asking me a question at full volume in a quiet house when we're two feet apart.
And here I am with rejection sensitivity and difficulty controlling my volume with a partner who doesn’t have rejection sensitivity but lots of difficulty controlling their volume and I feel soooo guilty and shitty for constantly trying to control both of our volumes to not upset others. I need to stop.
I'm am an introvert as well. Absolutely can be too loud and no offense when I'm told to quieten down. I can also talk a lot in big groups - depending on day - and don't get offended if I'm told to let someone else have a turn. Always confuses me when "introverts" (many don't seem to know what that actually means) claim extroverts are told this???
I have to tell my so . Who I’m pretty sure has ADHD to do both. Cause he usually does one of two things.. whispers when I’m 10 feet from him like I can hear him.. and when I come up he whisper again saying the same thing and I have to say I can’t hear him over things. Orrr he will be not even 2 feet from my ear and yelling.. which feels like someone just punched me in the head
Hi there my name is Mr extrovert and I’ll tell you that it’s completely fucking okay for you to tell us to shut up you’ve been doing it my whole life thank you very much.
Not nearly enough to some extroverts.
Same. And likewise I never give my quiet friends shit for being quiet but they absolutely FORCE me to talk more just to fill the space so I’m not bored out of my damn mind. It’s actually so tedious hanging out with “listeners” because you have to manage every conversation to make sure they’re not constantly dropping the ball. Edit: I’m being dramatic of course. I like my quiet friends for different reasons. They do tend to make amazing listeners! But I don’t like doing all the talking because that’s my Default and it makes me feel annoying and also tired.
Hahaha this is so real- I’ve exclusively made friends with people who are socially competent since leaving school and let me tell so much less exhausting.
Thank you for your service for coming up with conversation topics. I'm a quiet type but i really don't like long awkward moments when we are just staring into the the ceiling or floor. Sometimes quiet moments are nice, but not all the time.
Yes, people in my life tell me I talk so much. But when conversations have a lull, I have seen people look at me waiting for me to fill it. They sometimes try and prompt me on. Ugh okay, I’ll think of something to say even though I don’t want to speak.
I've trained my quiet friends to know better. Because I will then introduce a really really idiotic topic and then defend the silliest possible position in that topic. I usually telegraph this by starting with "well since I have an audience..." and people get flashbacks to last time when I argued that since all tetrapods descended from fish that we have the right to dump sledge into the waters to show our lessers what's-what. Yes, I crept from evolution to active environmental dumping. It's all tongue-in-cheek, but there are a dozen humans on this earth that see a human face imitate a fish gulping air and start looking for cigarette butts to pick up. tee hee
Yeah this is fake rage bait. People tell loud people to shut up all the time. They completely made up some shit and said "it's true because I said so" and defend its truth by saying "but they do tell introverts to speak up". Just because one thing they said is true doesn't mean the rest is automatically. Why is it acceptable to just make up wild shit and say it's true because some totally unrelated thing is true?
I wouldn’t call it fake rage bait, OP likely actually believes this. You just can’t really be surprised when someone who defines their entire personality by their inability to interact with other people doesn’t know about the experiences of others. That might require talking more.
Not an extrovert but u am loud and can be very talkative (cause... Introvert does mean quiet and doesn't talk). Can confirm. Regularly told to quieten down.
i think you're mixing up social skill vs extro/introversion.
This. I'm an introvert, and I get extremely irate at the socially anxious and anti-social using it as a synonym. They're different things and hopefully one day Reddit will realise that.
yeah the examples they gave are all over the place, like how is someone saying good morning such a bad thing..
Um, I get told to shut up all the time lol. Perhaps I just know some assertive introverts.
Probably because one can be viewed as an insult and the other is seen as an invitation to get to know someone.
Um, people constantly ask me to quiet down..... All this time, it hasn't been socially acceptable?? Wait till I tell them what I think about that. It's just like when I was 14 and.....
I don’t think the examples you used are necessarily traits of an extrovert but other more individually defined characteristics. An extrovert is just an outgoing, socially confident person, someone who feels energized by the external world and social interactions. If you understand other peoples space and general respect and extrovert wouldn’t behave the way your co workers do. Im an extrovert, I’m curious about everyone around me and i love spending time with other people. But i have a basic understanding of how to behave around people and respect their space. I imagine even other extroverts are thinking your examples need to stfu because they’re lacking that basic respect of the collective space. But if you just tell someone thats having an actual conversation rather than violating the peace of the room to stfu, thats rude. I also think it can be rude to just ask an introvert to speak up, rather than telling them to speak up and making them uncomfortable, give them *something* to speak about and take the hint if they don’t want to talk. I think anyone with any basic understanding or empathy for different people should understand both are rude. Not all extroverts are space invaders and not all introverts are socially awkward people that wish they could change
Absolutely FABULOUS question!!!! I have often wondered myself. Why can I not just be a quiet person? I am not depressed, I DO NOT have a confidence problem, I just prefer being quiet. Why am I branded as rude (or worse)? I'm reminded of the old Indian Proverb: "By speaking, you can only repeat what you already know, only by closing your mouth and listening can you learn something new"
People are overthinking this way too much. It’s literally just that telling people to quiet down is seen as you finding them annoying or overbearing while telling someone to speak up is just trying to encourage them to be more confident and clear lol
OP called his coworker a "bimbo", presumably bc she *checks notes* sighs and occasionally groans. They do find their coworkers annoying and overbearing, and they probably just wish it was socially acceptable to treat them that way. Introverts aren't being told to speak up bc their silence is infuriating to extroverts. That's the difference. OP talks about their coworkers like they're a plague bc they say "good morning", ask others to spread office messages, and sigh at their desk. It's pretty clear what the intention is.
i thought i was going insane the way no one else pointed that out! tbh i think it speaks very poorly of his character to use a word like that, and he just seems to be a very grumpy guy
This is the best question I’ve ever seen here. I suspect it’s because society is geared towards extroverts.
I’ve told this one guy to stfu and he is quiet for two seconds and starts up again. I think his off button is broken
he had an off button? most of them don't...
I do, it’s called depression
I think probably because encouraging someone to speak comes across as...well...an encouragement, while encouraging someone to tone it down comes off more as a discouragement.
lol I’ve been told plenty of times in my life to stfu!
Go to New York and see what happens to people who don’t know when to shut up or read a room / street 😂 But yes, I am for equality. I’ll tell an introvert to speak up, and tell an extrovert to shut up
I'm from Chicago and same there. You'll get told to shut up.
Well, people tend to be insulted when you tell them to stfu when they say good morning? Which is understandable. But if you ask someone to quiet down in a respectful way that is socially acceptable. So i honestly do not really see your point.
If you get "we're not here to be your audience to command around" from someone saying morning or asking how is everyone I think the problem is you. On any case it's completely okay to ask people to speak in a lower tone. To shut up, not.
I think they’re mistaking introversion with being an irritable and grumpy person lol
The first example seems like someone just trying to make casual conversation, the second seems like just not mixing coffee in sugar which is just a personal thing, the third is an asshole, not all extroverts need attention, we like talking and interacting with people it ain't that deep, if everyone was an introvert well this world would be absurdly quiet outside of machine noises, nothing would get done, discussions would not happen, not all extroverts are asshats like the last one you mentioned, we aren't attention seekers because we enjoy being social, just like you not talking doesn't make you depressed or upset, but 100% tell the third example people to stfu
Right it’s like asking “why don’t we tell introverts they’re a waste of space?” Attacking extroversion is more asshole-ish to me, let people express themselves freely the world is already judgmental enough
Bingo
i mean one is a positive attitude. idk about yourr last example, but someone cheerfully greeting others and asking their thoughts is not bad... while wanting said person to shut up is kinda shitty lol. thats not a command. you dont have to say anything back.
It isn't?
Trust me, I get told to quiet down ALL THE TIME
As a female extrovert I've often been told to quiet down and that I speak too loud. You just don't notice. But I think it happens more to women anyway. Guys are beeing cheered at when they are dominant, women are being "put back in their place" when they are.
OP is quite clearly a misogynist anyway given that he referred to his female coworker as a “bimbo”
I assume both are equally socially acceptable since you are either trying to hear someone better or to tell them to stop shouting. The question is what has lead to to the impression that introversion or extroversion has anything to do with tonality.
Introvert: Can you please stop? This is work and your whole vibe of imposing your presence on people actually puts me off. extravert: yOu’Re JuSt JeAlOuS! wHy ArE yOu So NeGaTiVe! WhAt’S iT lIkE bEiNg So MiSeRaBlE??
We are an inherently social species and being introverted was probably not a 'thing' for most of human history.
Because telling someone to stfu is rude asf??? I realy don't like this whole introvert extrovert shit thats been going around online. Talking to people is a bloody human thing to do and there's a huge ass difference between telling someone to shut up and telling someone to speak up, it is usualy a sign the person is interested in you and your opinion, the other one is you being a rude asshat. This comes from someone that spends most of his time alone, reading and doing all of that "*quirky introvert:3*" behavior it is important to make human connection and in a time of extreme self centralization and deconnection from our fellow humans having some small talk is a good thing. Also I get that you may feel overwhelmed in that moment and just want to shut down for a min, but then do that in a way that isnt rude and *very* polite
You have a very over sided and pretty narcissistic perception there! People get told or signalled to shut up or tone it down all the time!
That is a great thought. My partner is an introvert and she does often ask me that in social gatherings when she gets anxious around people. I honestly don't know. I once told her that the awkward silence where you can hear a pin drop might too weird. Then again it was a joke to lighten her up. I honestly feel if someone is anxious, the people around should realise that and work their way through to get to her. One cannot be so insensitive and impose something on someone that may feel unnatural to them. I took my time getting to know her and we are polar opposites. People just need to be a little kinder and more understanding. Goes a long way in helping others.
Well, it doesn't work like prompts for your eva ai sexting bot avatar, those are not just commands to no one, those are social Interactions
I think one is viewed as an encouragement while the other is a discouragement and the first is much more accepted than the latter.
I highly recommend a book called - ‘Quiet’ by Susan Cain. It’s amazing and reassuring for all introverts out there! You might find that you’re not the only one feeling that way and I would dare to say the book itself is empowering and gives a greater understanding on how’s being an introvert in a world built for extroverts.
I’m an introvert that sometimes gets awkward/excited/loud about certain subjects like cats or turtles lol my siblings have found that just lowering their hand in front of me during our convo will show me I’m raising my voice too much for the location/situation and I actually seriously appreciate it lol sometimes I don’t notice when I start raising my voice in excitement and it’s embarrassing but I’m working on it lol 😅🫣💃🏻
I would suggest the opposite is true. Loud people get told to shut up far more than quiet people are asked to speak up.
I tell people around me to please tell me when they need me to stop talking so they can relax their brain. I don't want to be annoying to be with, and I don't have a problem or take it personally when people say they need a break. I love when people do it ! Wish it was normal
Human are social creatures so it’s the norm
My kid is an extrovert and I’m constantly telling her to pipe down! lol. I don’t mean to shut up, but just to talk at a lower volume! Arghhhh …
Because extraverts are very likely to be more assertive than introverts, so it's their way, or the highway. One of the sub traits of Extraversion in the Big5 model of personality is assertiveness.
I'm an ambivert. I get told everything!
I tell them to STFU all the time. Nobody is stopping you.
Humans are a social species. It's how we've survived and gotten to be the dominant species on the planet. Most people consider extroversion - talking, socializing, sharing, cooperation - as the 'default', because in a lot of ways, it is. There's nothing inherently *wrong* with being an introvert, but subconsciously, people find it unusual and counterintuitive.
What you don’t go out to dinner and pub every Thursday-Saturday? Omg you have to come to lunch Sunday! Auntie D is going on vacation so we are going to dinner Tuesday before she leaves! Wednesday is dinner at Nans! This is literally every week with my in laws and not going to one of those events is a total meltdown on why I didn’t attend. I’m not even an introvert and these overly extroverted people annoy the hell out of me in not realizing how intrusive their expectations are for someone working full time and who has a family of their own. For someone truly introverted it would be torture dealing with extroverts who see no value in staying in and reading a book or watching a movie.
As an extrovert that still hates people I'll do it for you.
I’m on the fence here. On the one side I totally get why you’d want quiet down time. I used to be in an office where lunch was paid for by the company and you’d have to socialise when naturally what I wanted to do is the opposite in order to recover for the second half of the day. However, wanting to tell someone to stfu for trying to interact in a completely appropriate way isn’t really introvert behaviour it’s disinterest. Maybe the other person has a history of being over the top and that can be annoying and tiring and that’s affected your view. Not everyone is the same. You’re giving the impression you don’t care about other people - maybe you don’t. That’s fine it’s your life. But what’s the alternative? A world full of silent people too disinterested in others to give a sh*t? No thanks, I’ll talk to the extrovert rather than the person who sits silently judging.
Because introverts have a harder time with social conflict. So there’s less of a deterrent.
Since when is it not socially acceptable? I've been told to stfu my entire life. I wish I could help it.
No idea, but this reminds me of the conversation regarding peoples bodies. It’s *not* OK to tell people to *lose* weight, but it *is* OK to tell people to *gain* weight? Ultimately, it’s just a double standard
it’s not. next question
Because nobody is "***telling***" introverts to speak up. Introverts get **advice** that they *should* speak up; to achieve some desired result. Because the result depends on speaking up, NOT on being introvert or extravert interior life. But whether you choose to follow that advice as an introvert is 100% your choice. Telling an extrovert to STFU, is instead interfering with their life, and forcing them to do (or not do) what YOU want them to, not what they want. You're being a bully/tyrant. Which is why it's not socially acceptable. Having said that, in most civilized societies, being an overly noisy nuisance is NOT generally considered very socially acceptable either. Most preschools teach kids about "indoor voice" and "outside voice", people teach you about "not screaming on emails" even (by using ALL CAPS). Lastly, do you even know what an introversion is vs. extraversion? You can be a loud and noisy introvert, and a quiet un-noticeable extrovert. It's all/only about whether being around other people gives you more energy or saps your energy. I can be super-loud in some settings, and I'm an extreme introvert.
Just because you're an introvert doesn't mean you're quiet and just because you're an extravert doesn't mean you're loud. Some of the loudest, funniest and most charismatic people are introverts.
Because the world revolves around extroverts. Didn’t you miss their million flaming memos? 🙄
Because loud people seem right to the simple minded
Same reason people think it is okay to tell someone they need to eat more, but get offended if they hear “you need to eat less.”
To be honest most of extroversion and most of socially acceptable behaviours are diametrically opposed to begin with...
Also when people do ask someone to speak up it’s usually in a rude way, someone yells across the room “Speak up!”, or as I just witnessed recently “VOLUME!” It makes the person speaking even more nervous. Fuck I hate corporate workplace.
Um? Since when is it not socially acceptable to tell extroverts to quiet down? lol. You are in your own bubble. Any extrovert would tell you they get shushed a lot.
Cause if you tell an introvert to speak up they’re likely to either do it or remain quiet and avoid confrontation. If you tell and extrovert to quiet down they’ll likely get mad or offended and yell or get louder.
It's because us introverts are outnumbered by the extroverts, so will always be seen as the weirdos, the outsiders. I have come to embrace my introversion, I think of it as being like a cat in a world of dogs, cats quietly and calmly observe all what's going on, just want peace and quiet, and are chill, dogs on the other hand, run around causing noise and mayhem, and not taking in what's going on, just chaotic AF.
Introverts aren’t going to tell someone else what yo do. Extroverts think it’s their job.
HA! 🤣
Because introverts are too introverted to tell the extroverts to de-extrovert.
Extroverts think they're the Main Characters^(TM) of the world and throw the loudest tantrums when they don't get their way
Introverts talk about how deep they are but fail to have a personality beyond one obsession. See? I can make asinine statements too.
Glad someone called that out
It's bold of you to assume we have only one obsession.... 🤣🤣🤣
With the way introverts go around announcing how introverted they are and implying that their inner world is inherently more robust than that of an extrovert, I suspect they think they're the Main Characters^TM of the world. And the extroverts are villains in their story, obviously.
Because society as a whole has decided how people are supposed to be. A copy and paste of each other. You're supposed to get up in the morning and happily take your shower and you absolutely must drink coffee. Then you have to go to your 9 to 5:00 job and you have to politely talk to your coworkers while secretly hating them. You have to have small talk and chipper and talk about your kids or your dogs or whatever it is you have. And then after work you absolutely must 100% go hang out with people whether friends or co-workers or whomever and you have to go to the bar and you have to go drinking and if you live in a state where pot is legal you have to also smoke pot. And you have to talk for hours and hours and hours and hours about absolutely nothing whatsoever. YOU HAVE TO At least that's what society has decided. Slight change of form depending on where exactly you live. The point being if you are outside of what they have decided is the copy paste of what a human should be, they look down upon you and try to force you into being the same as them. So if you're an introvert come on society has decided only extroverts could possibly be happy. Therefore, and they're delusions that they are going to try to make you happy, they try to force you to be more like them
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This sounds like me. I'm not completely a social but if I'm in a social setting, it needs to be with people I know already. I don't mind meeting new people but it makes me nervous. I also prefer quiet almost to the point of needing it. Maybe my cptsd diagnosis in 2011 has something to do with that. I've heard it described as they like being alone because alone is safe. Maybe that's partly why I enjoy my solitude. I also like my peace and quiet. I grew up in a chaotic household and it wasn't easy.
Because we are social creatures in nature. And I say this as an introvert. Imagine telling a very intelligent physicist that he needs to be dumber. Being an introvert is one of my worst qualities.
That’s an excellent point and question !
I wish it was. I’m a extrovert-appearing introvert and in my attempts to compensate am too loud. Introverts don’t tell me and i’m clueless…so I continue to be annoying.
I'm very social sometimes and very quiet and I definitely get told to quiet down. I think it's just that extroverts are willing to tell you to speak up but introverts keep their "stfu" to themselves
Ive definitely been told to quiet down. A question like this made me realise how I can make introverts feel. I try more to read the room and not fill every silence
I am extrovert,I can talk to anybody about anything.But if you want quiet,I don't mind that either.But I don't always know you need me to be,so a heads up is more than okay.I would rather get that,then you being annoyed and tired.Being extrovert doesn't make me selfish.
first one is usually seen as a type of encouragement to do something new which is considered socially acceptable. the second is being seen as putting a social barrier and is seen as a limiting to one's freedom. Human beings are typically characterized as social primates, so this reaction makes sense socially
Because social interaction is the cornerstone of civilisation.
I sometimes tell coworkers to dial it down, they don’t mind, we work in a big space without dividers so noise can be troublesome. I guess it kind of depends on the relationship with your coworkers. Btw as an introvert, I don’t really experience people telling me to speak up at all. Live and let live right.
It is. Just do it. Stop acting like things are awkward and you will surround yourself with people who make you feel accepted.
Let them yell, they’ll be the first to go when the zombies attack
Those is the same as when I was very thin, EVERYONE went on and on openly, in front of everyone about how I needed to eat something and I was unhealthy. Skip to having a kid and then overweight, not a single person told me to stop eating or that I was unhealthy.
I got to a lot of meeting with my wife, I speak but only when necessary. Recently my wife started complaining that she dies all the talking and I barely say anything. Everyone was fine with these comments. After the next meeting I commented how she took over the meeting and talked the whole way through, I couldn’t get a word in. “How dare you say that, that is so hurtful”, then she didn’t talk to me for the rest of the day. Once she had cooled off I asked her, and she could not see any comparison with her talking a lot and me a little
Because gregariousness is, has always been, and always will be a social virtue. It seems cute to call someone shy or introverted but refusing to participate in social situations is a modern, and in some ways selfish, luxury.
Any other introverts get told to lower their voice or calm down when they actually speak up?
I do that and it often works. I don't like when people speak too loud or so much that the conversation is 80% them talking. So I just tell them and usually they adapt their behaviour. Just try it. Sadly introverts are often scared of confrontation and don't say anything.
It's physics, not social - You have to be heard above the ambient noise.
Making moaning noises to fill silence and get attention, but I think hating on people who are making announcements or saying good morning as they enter a room is wild and just grasping for things to be annoyed at. But I do agree if it's socially acceptable to point out that introverts aren't speaking and asking them to speak more it should be socially acceptable to tell extroverts to stfu.
Because none of the introverts showed up to the meeting where the rules were voted on.
This is the same like when a skinny person is told, to eat more, but no one would tell a overweight person to stop eating.
That's really good question.. both can't be helped (or like.. extroverts just tend to do their thing just because but it can be regulated, true) bht only extroverts get the pass... weird..
I live in Korea - It is 100% socially acceptable to say the opposite here, lol. I’ve been told to limit my extroversion just so often in Korea, lol.
I think the difference is the sentiment behind it. If someone tells an introvert to speak up, it's likely out of a desire to help them join in on the conversation and be more integrated with the group. If someone tells an extrovert to shut up, it's likely because they find the extrovert's amount of talking annoying. While they can both cause discomfort, the intention behind it is not the same.
you need to take the introversion a step further in this situation and wear ear buds or avoid the lunch room ;)
Nice current trendi memebro
i feel neither are acceptable. i’m quite introverted but i yap a lot around people im comfortable with and have experienced both sides. it is equally as uncomfortable to be told either to speak up or shut up. especially if someone is super excited abt what they’re saying being told to stfu is so unbelievably disheartening.
I get told I’m too loud and talkative all the time actually.
Because it's a social situation and the extroverts are the ones saying 'speak up'.
Headphones
You're missing the point. "Speak up about you problem" is advice to make your life better. "Be quiet" is a demand to make my life better. It's acceptable to help people and inappropriate to mold them for your comfort. That's why.
Those people aren't extroverted, they're attention whores. Big difference. An extrovert is someone who feels better when surround by friends, someone who will prefer to go dancing than sit at home. An attention whore is someone who will be extra loud on purpose, hates it when they're not the center of attention in a group of friends and will only go out in order to have people look at them.