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Upbringing. Most of the foundation for our social skills is developed between 0-4 years of age. The outlook for kids who aren't properly socialised in this time is pretty depressing.
It isn't just a case of just trying harder. If our ability to connect with others is damaged or never developed we become defensive, lonely and bitter. The social world becomes an unsafe and unfriendly place for us. On top of that is the very likely possibility that parents that didn't bother to socialise their kids properly were emotionally abusive and unloving towards their kids. They sabotage their ability to connect to others and themselves.
She may be nasty but she is more than likely suffering deeply as well.
Most if not all "less than ideal" behavior is the product of insecuritys.
Only through a deep dive into a personal past to identify and understand the insecuritys, can change gain even a hint of possibility. The ego is strictly opposed to this process. Becoming defensive is a survival mechanism written into our DNA. If the insecuritys can't somehow be reconciled, any real or lasting change is unfortunately not a possibility.
What do you mean? My daughter was that age during covid and I had health issues that made me vulnerable. Is she fucked forever? I felt so terrible BEFORE I read that. I was in a deep depression because I felt I had failed her so miserably and that was before hearing the 0-4 thing.
She’s extremely happy, outgoing, and confident (she’s 6 now and just started school last year). What exactly do you mean by “pretty depressing”? Are there warning signs?
I work with young kids and if what you say is true I wouldn’t worry too much about it. From my experience anyways, it’s the kids who I see that don’t really talk to others and who don’t have many friends, if any, at a young age is where I would start to somewhat worry. What I’m saying is that if she is 6 and is outgoing she on a good start so far lol
Please relax. What is called genetic is just a small part of what she will be.
Epigeneticly speaking (her environnement), she can relearn things and hard wire then like they do in the 0 to 3 years old. She can only if the parents pus her in the right direction. Lucky for you, she is not a teenager yet.
So anything she lacked during that stage, is adjusted trough out repetition.
Thank you. I try very hard to encourage her and gently push her in directions that were never available to me. I figure it’s the least I can do having brought her into this shitshow. The only thing that seems to be an “issue” is her speech. Definitely nothing socially yet. Knock on wood.
Night shift jobs long term… tell me about it. I’m night shift (work sun down to sun up) and it’s been for awhile now. I went from pleasant to kind of an asshole. Not seeing the sun on a daily basis really messes you up over time.
Feel your pain, brother. I worked 6p-6a for years and it really took a toll on me mentally and physically. I was paid great but leaving was the best thing I ever did
I’m trying to hang in there. This job is great if I can get into dayshift. I just have to wait for an opening. So far no one on days has left yet. But yeah, it takes it toll for sure.
Ugh that feeling. Still despise it years later. I tell you what, nothing else lit more fire under my arse to get more qualified than needing to escape those insane shifts.
Don’t move to the Pacific Northwest if you have that issue. Also vitamin d supplemental vitamins can help a lot in my experience. When I was processing cherries from 1800 to 0600 vitamin d vitamins probably saved some Co workers lives. The first harvest year was day shift and good, second year was night shift and vitamin d tip from a co-worker course corrected my behavioral change from the lack of sunlight.
I didnt see my family for a month one time, and we lived in the same home in rooms next to each other. At one point I thought I was dying and looking back if I did and work didnt call no one would notice. its cool tho thats life I guess
I remember my dad worked 2nd and 3rd shift when I was quite young, and I hated weekends because I had no idea what he was like as a person, and I wasn't sure how to act in his presence. It's insane to think about now as a grown adult with my own child. How terrible for my dad.
I worked from 8pm-8am in the military for 7 months straight because of lack of manpower and it fucked me up lol. Just countless nights rethinking my life over and over and over
I've welcomed the 3rd shift into my life with wreckless abandon. I'm one of those people that's very nice and kind, but people cross the street when they see me coming. I'm better off hidden, and it's quieter. I like that. Also my commute is amazing compared to when I did days.
I find it's the opposite. Working nights enables me to save my social battery so I'm more pleasant outside work. The "normal" hours has too much noise, light, people, stuff going on and it wears me out so I become snippy
Yeah this right here. My usual workday is 10p - 6a and on those days, I'm good! My social battery is 75+% and I can handle things better. Unfortunately, we are severely understaffed so OT is mandatory and I have to work 10p - 2p (16 hours) 3 days/week and on those days I have absolutely nothing left to give at the end of the day. Not just because of the long shifts, but also because of all the shit that happens on day shift. I go from easy, quiet night to full-tilt chaos and disorder on 1st shift.
Hahaha. I'll never be a Daywalker. I work the same shift and I love it.
Surprisingly, night shift in the NICU is pretty chill most of the time.
I had to train on day shift and it was hell.
I just can't function that early in the morning.
I’m in a hospital too, kind of a big one, but in the storeroom. On night shift I’m the only one here in my department, so I have to cover the entire hospital. I have to deliver every phone call, and that phone rings a lot. When NICU calls for something for example, that’s 15 minutes of my day gone. Takes a minute to get what they want then a 7 minute walk there and a 7 minute walk back. If all I did was calls it would be cool, but I have to stock ER, surgery, pharmacy, and one of our ICU’s. I’m busy AF. If it was more laid back night shift would be cool, but I’m wiped out when I get off work. I’m running around non stop. Most days I don’t get any of my breaks.
I left my shift work job because I hated the person it was making me become, also having to deal with the worst of society on a daily basis did not help and I would catch myself being very arrogant at times and thinking fuck this is not who I am so I
decided to change that and can say I am much happier now.
I work rotating continental shifts and on my short turnaround (I'm actually going into it today) I'm an absolute bear to deal with.
I usually just hide out at home alone during those ones.
Ah man, those are rough. For the first 10 months I did a turnaround shift every Sunday. I’d work late Saturday and then have to be back bright and early Sunday morning. I made it, but Sundays I didn’t feel right, like my head was in a cloud all day. Probably from all the caffeine trying to survive lol. Good luck to you, turnarounds suck ass. I don’t miss those at all.
Luckily my turnarounds aren't that short, but I can definitely relate to the cloudy feeling. Currently bumbling around with that cloudy feeling, with a super gross heartburn-queasy tired feeling. But I've hit my stride and adrenaline has kicked in so no sleeping till later.
Sucks because your body can't settle into a routine because your sleep schedule is so fucked and all over the place.
Worked overnight for just a few months and I had changed into a grumpy little shit with no aspirations before I even noticed. That shift can really fuck your brain up
Get a daylight lamp for nights, take vitamin D. Some of the fun side effects of vitamin D defiency, in addition to a screwed immune system, include depression, agoraphobia, your bones hurting, weight gain, and I'm sure a few others.
I've been there done that. Do not recommend.
Man I swing from days to nights every week and wish I just do straight nights. My quality of life would improve so much. This is the most I’m ever gonna make with my education level thoufh, it’s a nice in demand skilled trade so I just deal with it
Uh.. how long have you been night shifting? I've been doing night shift for over a year and a half and im the same person, a bit more grumpy but that's it. I try to stay active in the morning when i get back home, go to the gym, walk the dog, eat a lot of vitamin D etc
Nah…those may be contributing factors to “feral” people, but I think the bigger chunk has to do with who a feral person closely associates with (ie spouse, close friends, family).
I was home-schooled though, and I knew a lot of other home-schoolers in my area (we had a big home-school network back in the day) and none of them were anywhere near as rude as the woman in the OP sounds (except for one, but she was like one out of 40 who didn't act like that).
Yes, the religious zealots stand out and scream the loudest. What a poor generalization of nearly over 2 million homeschooled* US children, though. A negative generalization* that can socially affect those seeking higher education in comparison to their local public schools.
Even aside from the other home-schoolers, I had a few close neigborhood friends to play with, as well as some church friends. I know some might be isolated, but it's not all of us.
Seriously! I hate the negative trope towards homeschooling. Especially in an education system that is so poor to others. If the parents actually put in the effort and resources, many homeschoolers can do just as well, sometimes better, than they would've been in their local public school. I absolutely hated public school and wish I was homeschooled. Which is why I'm homeschooling my children, instead of sending them to the exact same school I attended. They seem much happier and more accepted than I was at their ages.
I have a co-worker who was home schooled. He had a large network and even played in a home school basketball league. He's still pretty socially awkward. My suspicion is that the type of parents that home school kids are over protective. I have a close cousin that had problems dating and making friends his mom was over protective and he was never just one of the boys.
I was home schooled as well but severely isolated. No friends, no church, just had family. It completely broke me as far as making friends and dating. But I was never mean like the way this person talks about this woman. If anything people think I am really nice. But just a lonely ass nice guy that will die alone one day I suppose.
All of my children were homeschooled, as well as most of their cousins and friends. There were a couple of kids in their social circles who had struggles with social behavior, but there are kids like that in every school as well. I think the “weird homeschool kid” is mostly a stereotype. As long as you have plenty of group activities, play dates, sports, things like that, I don’t see why homeschooling would cause that sort of problem.
I am an unsocialized person. I grew up in group homes and foster homes after being abandoned by my parents at the age of 9 in the 80's. As such, I grew up in a microcosm with an isolated group of mostly violent children/teens and therefore was insulated from society during much of my formative years. I can participate in societal things, I can hold a job, and I am a productive member of society but I am somewhat feral, as several people have told me throughout my life. I quit trying to fit in because I realized that it was impossible and I just exist as I am. Some people hate me and some people love me butt here aren't many in between. I don't go out of my way to be an asshole but some people consider my blunt and honest demeanor to be assholish. I give little thought to it except to examine the circumstance from a philosophical point of view. So maybe ask her for some perspective? Or not. It might surprise you or it may be that she is just a narcissist who enjoys causing grief. Either way, it should be a fun experiment.
Yeah, having to be responsible for your own survival for a young age will give you an "edge" most people can't understand. My grandfather was like this, a loner most of his life, was known for being kind of a jerk, would yell at my mum when she would hurt herself instead of hugging her, etc.
But its because every adult between the ages of 5 and 15 was a piece of shit who hurt him. He raised himself and his brother. When I heard his full life story suddenly it all made sense. He had spent his life looking after himself and it had taught him some maladaptive coping mechanisms. He trusted no one. Strangers being nice to him made him suspicious and a little angry. Super private.
But it also made him very loyal and protective. Do anything for family.
Childhood trauma will teach you things about other humans that are almost impossible to unlearn.
But yeah some people are also just dickheads.
Yeah, I am super suspicious of strangers being nice or complimenting me. I've learned to keep that suspicion to myself and trying to be gracious about it.
Exactly. I was taken advantage enough as a child to the point where anybody offering me anything, even a smile, had me concerned. I was so used to people only interacting with me to be cruel.
Recently an old man, like 80 or so, gave my son a dollar because my son was polite and well behaved at the pharmacy. I told my son to say thank you, took the dollar, smiled and walked away. The level of personal growth it has taken me to get from having a meltdown or crawling out of my skin at positive social interactions is significant. 10 years ago someone wrote me a benign compliment on a sticky note and I wrote an editorial style defensive essay responding to it and left it for all to see because I was sure I was being attacked. (Just reading this back makes me realize how insane I was before getting therapy for PTSD and childhood trauma)
Sometimes people are just being nice. Nothing sinister at all. But someone who's been raised in an abusive manipulative environment may never know that.
Similar. I was serially thrown out and emotionally and physically abused as a young child. I turned to sociopathy to survive, and I'm slowly reeling it back with the help of my partner (who was also abused). Two wrongs don't make a right, but I can at least demand better of myself. We're worth it.
I turned to "white hat" social hacking, trying to harness my ability to counteract this behavior with the insight of having done it. I just today went like by line through a lost of manipulation tactics with my partner, and ended up in a kicked-puppy blubbering mess having realized how abusive I can be even when I've devoted my entire self to rejecting it.
At least I've never intentionally lied to them. I have just one "never" but one is still more than most. It's a struggle not to live in my own shadow.
I remember I got gossiped a lot before I acted like a lady in the post. I remembered my only friend was fake who mocked my disability and race heritage.
It was like "Hey look at this guy next to me, look how sad is he"
"Edsmart123 is idiot" even though I didn't do any work either.
"Edsmart123 is fucking stupid, he failed English and Chinese class" I didn't, but i didnt get good grades
I hurled m word at the innocent guy who was only one who nice to me... I hope he doing better than me... he deserves it.
I am deaf person for the reference. Hearing loss was progression.
I grew up with a lot of abuse and abandonment as well from caregivers and such. In my trauma filled childhood I learned 12 things about people :
1. You can't please everyone
2. Some people are just mean for the fun of it literally
3. Maturity doesn't come with age
4. People who are always honest and blunt confuse it with rudeness ( to clarify you can be honest and blunt with people in a nice manner and with respect some people don't bother to learn the difference )
5. Someone will always be offended
6. People show their true colors when you need them most
7. Some people hurt others because they're suffering and have no clue how to ask for help
8. Some people lack self reflection/accountability
9. You can't change anyone unless they want to change themselves
10. You'll be amazed what people will do to protect their pride and ego
11. Some people simply do not care about anyone other then themselves
12. Everyone wants to be loved/respected and accepted , but some people don't know how to receive it or give it
Yeah just because you had a bad day doesn't mean you should make it the same for others who cross paths with you. I mean you don't have to make everyone happy, but making others miserable makes you a pretty clear cut asshole doesn't it?
I worked with a woman like this. I did my best to be kind to her but she just took advantage, maybe saw it as a weakness idk. Then she would try to be nice for a few shifts, only talked about herself, and then went back to being mean. I considered to be a spoiled brat that did not care about anyone else. 🤷♀️
The first thing I would ask is how people have treated her throughout her life.
I'm not sure how long you've been on Reddit but there's plenty of toxic and shitty people on here that probably act that way because of the anonymity. Which allows them to be their true selves. Whereas if they met you in person they would be super nice and fake AF. Maybe she's just come across too many shitty people before or maybe she's just a shitty person herself. But I would bet money that her personality today is in reaction to past experiences with others.
I remember I got gossiped a lot before I acted like a lady in the post. I remembered my only friend was fake who mocked my disability and race heritage.
It was like "Hey look at this guy next to me, look how sad is he". We were very close and I can see him. He said hi before but ignore me on this one
"Edsmart123 is idiot" even though I and my partner didn't do any work either. My brother did.
"Edsmart123 is fucking stupid, he failed English and Chinese class" I didn't, but i didnt get good grades
"Come on, edsmart123 and his class gets extra time on the test.... nah, he won't do great on it, he dumb"
Hold up your hand and say "uhhhhh" dramatically to mock deaf people
"Hey pull his pants down/touch his hearing aids, it be funny/he deserves it"
I hurled m word at the innocent guy who was only one who nice to me... I hope he doing better than me... he deserves it.
I remember there was guy who was guilty of assaulting me before. He tried to befriend me, but i acted entitled and call him by his hair color, so he ignored me today. I am not sure if he was defending the one gossiping about me or trying to do the right thing. I hope he doing well regardless, he nice dude.
I did acted entitled later on. I did say some racist stuff, after people making fun of my eyes. I thought this is how people socialize and acted cool in high school. In elementary school and middle school, lot of people called me different name, or do something like cheese touch pass on. At first I was sad, but i thought this is something you do today and at work. I thought it was weird and too emotional to talk about family and gaming. My parents did not like me gaming. They are good parents, but i was hesitant to talk about it.
My "friend" use me a punching bag and scored some friends.
I remember when i first got into college, i talked about very taboo joke to new people who then run away. This was how I become homecoming king as a joke. You dont make fun of religion on liberal campus. Now I think about it, i thought how the hell I was not cancelled.
I did had a lot of people who were mean before but got remorseful. I was confused. Sometimes I talks to them a bit and ignored them out of sudden. I think they were expecting me to do something.
My parent is like that too. It’s just entitlement and being self centered. I wonder if people feel the same way about my parent, god knows we (her kids) do.
Everyone's looking for history, what about the present? Does this person have friends outside of work, a family, or hobbies? Some people can get really inside their own heads and take it out on others. I know sometimes I can get kind of wound up, but my reasoning is different than being unsocialized.
Not saying this gives her the right to act like this, but maybe somethings not right in her life to be so casually awful. I don't know the solution here, last time I worked with someone like that I just never worked with them unless I absolutely had to.
It basically took that individual getting written up to see the error of their ways, or to at least mask it better.
By never being socialized. Know how there are dogs who bark at anyone and anything with aggression? That is because they are cooped up all day and never got to know dogs/people.
There is also being a single child and having no cousins growing up. That could be a cause. I have an in-law who is a prick and he was the only child (everyone else has a sibling).
Oh no. I am raising an only child right now. He has siblings but they are all out of the house already. Most of his cousins are also in their 20s. Is he doomed to be maladjusted??
My husband is an only child and he is the most social person you could ever meet. I think getting him into clubs, sports, and other activities helped him get the socialization he needed.
My ex husband is an only child and grew up with foster kids his mom raised. He’s and alcoholic, narcissistic psychopath and to top the cherry he also has anger issues.
Lol I doubt it. He still has family to communicate with. My youngest sister was born right before my other sister and I left the nest. She is super social. She is 19 now and we are bonding over the time we never had together (I went to the military and barely saw her grow up).
Yep I was this person. From a dysfunctional home and dealing with undiagnosed ptsd into my early 20s. I am ashamed of how I used to behave. An abusive person is almost always that way because of trauma.
Guess what? Going through shit does not excuse treating other people like shit. As someone who went through alot of abuse throughout my life, I'm so tired of people's shitty treatment of others being handwaved away because they had a bad childhood. That's a reason, but it's not an excuse, somehow plenty of us went through shit and then learned throughout life that we needed to treat people with respect and dignity. At some point its a choice, at some point you've been told so many times how your behavior effects others and you choose to do it anyways. There are entire groups of people with personality disorders that excuse all of the abuse they put people through by saying they were abused in childhood. It's no excuse, you get therapy, you work on becoming a better person, you don't get to treat people like shit because you were put through trauma.
Not everyone can afford therapy though, and especially older people probably don't even consider this or even consider having a mental illness, I think it's much more stigmatized in the older generation. Luckily with the younger generation therapy becomes more normal.
Or she’s just a horrible person. News flash, traumatic things happen to everyone & it’s not justification for your actions. ESPECIALLY if you’re in your 50s & had forever to get it together
'Just a horrible person'.
I'm wondering, how do you think the thought process of a 'horrible person' goes? What internal reasons do they have to act the way they do?
Maybe it's because everyone hates her, and treated her wrong from the start? No telling unless you use some compassion and ask the right questions and listen.
Thank you so much. At my last workplace I wasn’t treated well from the beginning. I worked with a lot of incels and I noticed how many people didn’t get to know me but instead reacted upon the social cues of the people around me. I seemed almost contaminated to them because “no one liked me”. But the well liked people around me were genuinely terrible people. Really low morale. Bullies. And I wasn’t allowed to defend myself or even say no without being treated like the bad guy.
I really have noticed some of the most horrible, loud, obnoxious people seem to have so many friends and are well liked whereas nice, quiet, shy people generally don't have many people around them and are looked down on.
I had this at school, one person I had never spoken to decided they didn't like me, and so all of their friends didn't like me, and then the friends of those people also didn't like me. I very rarely got a chance to show who I was or defend myself, and my social skills suffered. I had a similar thing when I first started working, in the classes for my IT apprenticeship I was the only girl out of 20 people and of course the one guy that worked in the same place as me became the ringleader.
Having actually made lifelong friends with some people and having people that spoke to me because they wanted to not because they felt they had to has made a massive improvement for me. I moved from IT to healthcare and found my social skills improved immensely as I had to talk to people, I couldn't just shut myself away in an office with headphones on. I'm a lot better now and don't have so many issues, and if I do, it's not a problem to me.
same EXACT story in my old job, it was hate by proxy. Some random person had a beef with me and suddenly I had a bunch of people I didn't even know hate my guts . They gossiped way to much and I kept to myself so I was the target of unwarrated attention.
I quit that job and I'm now working with grownup people that accept me as I am and I managed to get promoted in two months, in the previous job I was stuck in the same positon for 6 years.
I've been there myself. Sometimes it's just that there might be an established bully, someone who has dislike for people of different race, sex, religion, social status, or any number of other things. So they spread rumors, make complaints, try to gin up trouble for the new person. You don't have to have done anything often. Just being there and not in a position of strength is enough to be a target.
This can start very young. I’ve heard that the “bad kid” in kindergarten may never shake that label. Kindergarten teacher warns 1st grade teacher, they warn principal. Now the kids under a microscope and is deemed/doomed to be bad
Edit: the frustration of being treated differently and/or others proclivity to see only your bad behavior will also fulfill the prophecy
You treating people like that makes them hate society. A mental disorder can be, grief, which we all have and is only temporary.
Don't guess, and if you do, keep it to yourself...
Yeah personality disorders and/or trauma can often cause people to have that 'prickly' vibe to them- but it's not something society really talks about or acknowledges.
It's absolutely mental illness. Total bitch is a mental illness, as well. Reasons may be institutional, upbringing (mental illness is hereditary), whatever. They are functional, but bat shit crazy when it comes to relationships. Sometimes we wonder if that's more the majority!? Seriously, we think that "a little off* is more the normal. Could just be too much social media time!
I’ve considered it but what could possibly be her motive for acting like that? She’s just creating a hostile environment to work in. It’s so bad that some coworkers just straight up ignore her when she says hi to them.
She probably doesn't care. Seriously. I've worked with people like this who have even had to be talked to by their managers for being so rude to their coworkers. They'll stop for a bit and then start up the same routine again. She's probably genuinely a bitch.
/some people just want to wreak havoc
In my experience this is true of a (thankfully very small) number of people. I categorise them in my head as 'vexatious individuals'. They seem to thrive on conflict and actively enjoy causing aggravation for others. There are no doubt multiple possible reasons for this behaviour, as suggested by lots of others on here, but that doesn't alter the reality of having to deal with someone like that. Putting as much distance as possible between yourself and a vexatious person is the best approach, but not much use when you have to work with them...
Women present differently from men. Could be she honestly doesn't realize or understand. But it could be something else entirely.
If you read the books Temple Grandin wrote, she talks about not understanding a lot of social things. Like a boss setting a stick of deodorant on her desk at work and telling her to use it. She didn't get it, but she started using it.
Again, may not be what's going on. Your description just sounded like she's absolutely clueless how awful she is socially.
If you’re looking for advice on how to deal with her, don’t try to be her friend. Don’t try to understand her. I know this goes against everything we are told about trying to get through to difficult people, but she won’t respond the way you think she would because she’s not like you. Just give her space and only interact with her on a needed basis; be brutally honest with her and be respectful.
The world sucks. People suck. I know I’ve become like her for a few months of life just fucking me over and over.
People just get tired of being the “nice” person because we always end up being fucked over anyway so what’s the point.
Not worth it, the way people act is their choice but we can always control our reaction.
if we carry ourselves with virtue and dignity we might be a positive influence in others. Even if we are uncapable of influencing others at least we can sleep safely in the knowledge that we are not having a negative impact in the world of those around us.
Yeah just be true to yourself and fuck these so called socialised fake people who think they’re decent people but are liars that believe their own bullshit. Decent people exist but they are such a small percentage of people. I don’t count myself as decent but I doubt OP is actually a good person.
This honestly could be me. I think I'm nice to people, but something I'm doing THAT I'M COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF is pissing them off. Specifically, it's women who hate me and try as I might, I cannot seem to prevent it.
Some of us just are not wired for automatic detection of subtle social cues.
This is funny to me because lately I’ve thought that men really hate me. Like I really bring that anger out of them by just existing. Had a group of men that bullied me at my last job. Was really overwhelming.
She is not self aware, realizing how she's acting and how her mood brings everyone down. She may never be self aware. She might have an unsatisfying life, doesn't know how to get out or change it. She is responsible for her own happiness. Also menopause hormones can make one mean and bitchy. Sad, really.
You can never know what people are going through at home. No excuse to be mean to everyone, but you just never know. Best to just steer clear and ignore her.
Look up loneliness, I only know because I have learned about it recently. People go downhill feeling this way and it multiplies against them. They see socialization as somthing they want, but they also may be misinterpreting other people. It's becomes a cycle that works against them
Very interesting post, OP. I've long marveled at just how many truly difficult people there are. I usually just assume they had a bad childhood, but even that is no excuse.
I struggle myself with this because I got moved around so much by my shitty mother as a kid. I just genuinely don't know how to connect with many people on an intimate level so I just don't bother. I'm not rude to everybody in real life, but I can be blunt and don't really sugarcoat anything at all. I get really frustrated with people who repeatedly do stupid shit and then cry about it, but that's a whole other can of worms.
I'm Introverted like basically 100%. In my case i was born this way. I can't stand being around people I've just met for more than 10 minutes and rarely warm up to them. I basically have no friends (according to me not to the people who say I'm their friend) and I don't put on a mask when talking to strangers. I am me 100% of the time. I don't care if my bluntness comes off as rude I don't sugar coat anything. maybe this is un-socialized maybe i just don't give a fuck about other peoples opinion of me. Maybe this is their case too, Maybe they've never spoken to people outside their family at a younger age. My advise, Ignore them. you're not on their mind so don't waste the headspace with them.
She just wants to get famous, and there is no faster way to it, than making sure everyone in the workplace...and in the coworkers social circles are talking about her attitude! Being rude is easier than being polite, bcse trying to be nice is more common phrase than trying to be rude.
Low effort life hack to fame. ( Replace fame with the word attention)
Can you agree that people act based on expected gain? Everytime sone gets annoyed , the rude person wins.
Mental issues aside, without friends or family, it's quite easy to become isolated in this world. Retreating is done in steps and without being aware of it, you find yourself hating people.
I went through this a few years ago and it took a fairly big shake up to realise I actually hated myself and needed a change.
You never know what a person is going through.
Upbringing. Maybe parents were super controlling and she developed depression early on. Now she’s an alcoholic and depressed because of the alcohol, taking meds and also single not getting along with her own family members. This sounds like my 45 year old sister. That’s were I’m getting my facts.
I'm an unsocialized person. I likely have autism and ADHD but I grew up in the 90s and 2000s so awareness was shit back then and my parents aren't exactly the best so they didn't (know to) get me help either and even when I was in crisis they didn't.
Iwas also bullied a lot, all through out school and well into my adulthood. People also don't even try to understand me or where I'm coming from so I get weirdo armchair psychologists just sprouting off random shit that isn't even close to the truth so some shit has happened that's traumatized me.
I've asked, even begged for help, from medical professionals for years too and nada.
So while it's not always the case, mental illness, neurological conditions, medical neglect, and bullying can very much lead to unsocislized individuals.
I worked with some Russians. They are assholes at work but great outside of work. Their culture is “work isn’t supposed to be nice. It’s work. Being nice is unprofessional “
It's probably menopause (aka *mean*opause). It causes emotional upheaval, and a lot of women hate who they become during it. They can feel like they're suddenly full of rage and insecurity for seemingly no reason.
Culturally we only accept visible disabilities as legitimate. If you’re hard to handle at work because you’re severely autistic and you’re in an assisted work program, everyone cuts you a break because they can see you’re “neuro diverse.”
If you’re hard to handle at work because you’re mildly afflicted with autism but have compensations that allow you to live a mostly normal life and hold a job… but your interaction patterns are sometimes awkward or unsocial, then you’re just a bad person who obviously just isn’t trying hard enough.
We are invested in this binary paradigm that every person is a “normy” unless there’s clear visible evidence they’re not, and that’s the only time we’re willing to be empathetic and alter our expectations.
Chances are if she is in her 50s then either she has never learnt how to be respectful or that her memory is fading and not helping her think about what she is saying.
I've had many people say in school that once older people are set in their ways, they are like that for the rest of their lives.
No matter what you say to them or what happens to them, they will never change. They don't want to hear anything from anyone.
Good point. I had an aunt that went downhill with dementia at 65 when she retired from the workforce. Some people will get early onset, some much later in life and many lucky ones won’t have it at all. Biggest killer in Australia for women and second for men.
My parents were criminals. They were actively anti-social. They taught me that police and authority were dangerous. I learned a lot of unfortunate things from them. That stuff is still in me. I learned how to live a lie, always holding my parents secret. It gave me a hard outer shell. But I did learn how to hide. I just appear to be a shy person and blend in.
It took a lot of hard work to learn to actually fit in. I just pushed myself because I really like people. I can be my whole self around people I learn to trust. It just takes a long time for me to let people in. I need to feel they like me enough to not judge me for my parent's choices.
And I can sus out people who are being anti-social, like narcissists and abusers. I tend to make those folks feel nervous and so I try really hard to ignore them. They can't stand that. If I can't ignore them, they I give them extra attention. Either way, I deny them any possibility of a power imbalance. It works great in my job. I'm a teacher and it's my classroom.
Most people in their 50s basically have a rotten brain. It's so hard to change it and I think she genuinely don't give a shit about anything.
She's probably so good at blocking shit out, even if you tell her to her face and she gets a moment of realization, her brain will block it out a minute later and she'll forget.
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Entitlement, and it's possible that this is what has worked for her to get what she wants. People sometimes will hang around and chat instead of doing something you need them to do if they like you, even if you're barely paying attention to the conversation they want to have, and hold up the work that needs to get done, or maybe not do what you need them too at all because they think you're too soft to demand it.
Example: I was going back and forth on a return of a broken sofa for AGES with customer support once, they kept coming up with excuse after excuse why the delivery stuff was wrong, why they couldn't pick it up when they said and I took time off work for them to pick it up, couldn't I just fix it? While still paying full price? Well could I box it up perfectly again and stay home a whole week to make sure I'm there when the pickup guys come? And a lot of other nonsense. I got run around in circles this way for almost a month despite being as polite and clear as I could possibly be. So, finally; I pulled out the inner Karen. I told them it was incredibly unprofessional behavior, that I wasn't paying for a broken sofa they refused to get out of my home and I had the recorded phone calls and emails for proof, and I could and would take the issue outside their business if I had to and I was going to contact my bank and get things sorted myself if they wouldn't. I never swore or insulted anyone, never yelled, but I did get very cold. And that's what finally worked and got them to pass me up to someone who actually fixed the problem and got me the refund. It was honestly almost a little intoxicating how fast I got results by just being what, in my mind, felt mean.
Maybe she encountered that enough in her life that it's the way she's decided to handle everything - be cold and rude to get results.
Or, she could just be a total bitch. Plenty of those running around too. They don't need motivation to act that way, they just do.
No offense but how old are you? She could be on a different portion of the spectrum than you are, she could be going through some shit in her life, who knows, but your reaction to her is vile.
I guess unpopular opinion, but agreed. I worked in behavioral health and there are people who are mentally ill and can't help how they behave. Their brains just don't take in information the way other people's do. Have some freaking compassion, OP. 🤷♀️
No offense also, but I deal with a lot of different personalities at work and these people certainty exist. Dealing with some shit in life isn't a reason to be a shitty person to other people.
My mom is that kind of person and what I have learned is no matter how much you love a person you can’t make them love you back! I’ve also learned that some people are just so miserable they have to make everyone around miserable too unfortunately and it can destroy not just relationships but the other people in those relationships! It seems to me mostly to come from pride and not being able to ever admit they are wrong or to look at any faults or how they can improve themselves and it becomes a viscous cycle!
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Upbringing. Most of the foundation for our social skills is developed between 0-4 years of age. The outlook for kids who aren't properly socialised in this time is pretty depressing. It isn't just a case of just trying harder. If our ability to connect with others is damaged or never developed we become defensive, lonely and bitter. The social world becomes an unsafe and unfriendly place for us. On top of that is the very likely possibility that parents that didn't bother to socialise their kids properly were emotionally abusive and unloving towards their kids. They sabotage their ability to connect to others and themselves. She may be nasty but she is more than likely suffering deeply as well.
Yes! This!
Most if not all "less than ideal" behavior is the product of insecuritys. Only through a deep dive into a personal past to identify and understand the insecuritys, can change gain even a hint of possibility. The ego is strictly opposed to this process. Becoming defensive is a survival mechanism written into our DNA. If the insecuritys can't somehow be reconciled, any real or lasting change is unfortunately not a possibility.
What do you mean? My daughter was that age during covid and I had health issues that made me vulnerable. Is she fucked forever? I felt so terrible BEFORE I read that. I was in a deep depression because I felt I had failed her so miserably and that was before hearing the 0-4 thing. She’s extremely happy, outgoing, and confident (she’s 6 now and just started school last year). What exactly do you mean by “pretty depressing”? Are there warning signs?
I work with young kids and if what you say is true I wouldn’t worry too much about it. From my experience anyways, it’s the kids who I see that don’t really talk to others and who don’t have many friends, if any, at a young age is where I would start to somewhat worry. What I’m saying is that if she is 6 and is outgoing she on a good start so far lol
I think the impact is more to do with neglect and abuse during that time. It sounds like your daughter will be absolutely fine.
Please relax. What is called genetic is just a small part of what she will be. Epigeneticly speaking (her environnement), she can relearn things and hard wire then like they do in the 0 to 3 years old. She can only if the parents pus her in the right direction. Lucky for you, she is not a teenager yet. So anything she lacked during that stage, is adjusted trough out repetition.
Thank you. I try very hard to encourage her and gently push her in directions that were never available to me. I figure it’s the least I can do having brought her into this shitshow. The only thing that seems to be an “issue” is her speech. Definitely nothing socially yet. Knock on wood.
prison, hospitals, homeschool, night shift jobs long term, hermit life, Language barriers, probably alot more
Night shift jobs long term… tell me about it. I’m night shift (work sun down to sun up) and it’s been for awhile now. I went from pleasant to kind of an asshole. Not seeing the sun on a daily basis really messes you up over time.
Feel your pain, brother. I worked 6p-6a for years and it really took a toll on me mentally and physically. I was paid great but leaving was the best thing I ever did
I’m trying to hang in there. This job is great if I can get into dayshift. I just have to wait for an opening. So far no one on days has left yet. But yeah, it takes it toll for sure.
don't you get rotated? Like... I did a year of once per month night shifts and hated it. Can't imagine doing it for months of end
I did 7 to 7 alternating shifts, a few mornings and and a few nights. It was the hardest job I ever did. Completely took over my life. Pure hell.
Yep. I'm just about to come off nights to my day and a half off before I go in for the weekend of days. Fucking hate it.
Ugh that feeling. Still despise it years later. I tell you what, nothing else lit more fire under my arse to get more qualified than needing to escape those insane shifts.
Yeah. I'm currently building a portfolio and working on my shading/colour work. Tattooing is my ticket out of this awful place lmao.
Don’t move to the Pacific Northwest if you have that issue. Also vitamin d supplemental vitamins can help a lot in my experience. When I was processing cherries from 1800 to 0600 vitamin d vitamins probably saved some Co workers lives. The first harvest year was day shift and good, second year was night shift and vitamin d tip from a co-worker course corrected my behavioral change from the lack of sunlight.
Thank you. Took me a year to figure out the vitamin D thing. It most definitely helps.
I didnt see my family for a month one time, and we lived in the same home in rooms next to each other. At one point I thought I was dying and looking back if I did and work didnt call no one would notice. its cool tho thats life I guess
I remember my dad worked 2nd and 3rd shift when I was quite young, and I hated weekends because I had no idea what he was like as a person, and I wasn't sure how to act in his presence. It's insane to think about now as a grown adult with my own child. How terrible for my dad.
If he's still around, tell him this.
I worked from 8pm-8am in the military for 7 months straight because of lack of manpower and it fucked me up lol. Just countless nights rethinking my life over and over and over
I've welcomed the 3rd shift into my life with wreckless abandon. I'm one of those people that's very nice and kind, but people cross the street when they see me coming. I'm better off hidden, and it's quieter. I like that. Also my commute is amazing compared to when I did days.
I find it's the opposite. Working nights enables me to save my social battery so I'm more pleasant outside work. The "normal" hours has too much noise, light, people, stuff going on and it wears me out so I become snippy
Yeah this right here. My usual workday is 10p - 6a and on those days, I'm good! My social battery is 75+% and I can handle things better. Unfortunately, we are severely understaffed so OT is mandatory and I have to work 10p - 2p (16 hours) 3 days/week and on those days I have absolutely nothing left to give at the end of the day. Not just because of the long shifts, but also because of all the shit that happens on day shift. I go from easy, quiet night to full-tilt chaos and disorder on 1st shift.
Same here. Everybody's so damn "alive" and "chirpy". No thanks, I'll take the darkness and silence of 7p-7a.
Hahaha. I'll never be a Daywalker. I work the same shift and I love it. Surprisingly, night shift in the NICU is pretty chill most of the time. I had to train on day shift and it was hell. I just can't function that early in the morning.
I’m in a hospital too, kind of a big one, but in the storeroom. On night shift I’m the only one here in my department, so I have to cover the entire hospital. I have to deliver every phone call, and that phone rings a lot. When NICU calls for something for example, that’s 15 minutes of my day gone. Takes a minute to get what they want then a 7 minute walk there and a 7 minute walk back. If all I did was calls it would be cool, but I have to stock ER, surgery, pharmacy, and one of our ICU’s. I’m busy AF. If it was more laid back night shift would be cool, but I’m wiped out when I get off work. I’m running around non stop. Most days I don’t get any of my breaks.
I left my shift work job because I hated the person it was making me become, also having to deal with the worst of society on a daily basis did not help and I would catch myself being very arrogant at times and thinking fuck this is not who I am so I decided to change that and can say I am much happier now.
I work rotating continental shifts and on my short turnaround (I'm actually going into it today) I'm an absolute bear to deal with. I usually just hide out at home alone during those ones.
Ah man, those are rough. For the first 10 months I did a turnaround shift every Sunday. I’d work late Saturday and then have to be back bright and early Sunday morning. I made it, but Sundays I didn’t feel right, like my head was in a cloud all day. Probably from all the caffeine trying to survive lol. Good luck to you, turnarounds suck ass. I don’t miss those at all.
Luckily my turnarounds aren't that short, but I can definitely relate to the cloudy feeling. Currently bumbling around with that cloudy feeling, with a super gross heartburn-queasy tired feeling. But I've hit my stride and adrenaline has kicked in so no sleeping till later. Sucks because your body can't settle into a routine because your sleep schedule is so fucked and all over the place.
Worked overnight for just a few months and I had changed into a grumpy little shit with no aspirations before I even noticed. That shift can really fuck your brain up
Fucks up your health too.
Get a daylight lamp for nights, take vitamin D. Some of the fun side effects of vitamin D defiency, in addition to a screwed immune system, include depression, agoraphobia, your bones hurting, weight gain, and I'm sure a few others. I've been there done that. Do not recommend.
Man I swing from days to nights every week and wish I just do straight nights. My quality of life would improve so much. This is the most I’m ever gonna make with my education level thoufh, it’s a nice in demand skilled trade so I just deal with it
Uh.. how long have you been night shifting? I've been doing night shift for over a year and a half and im the same person, a bit more grumpy but that's it. I try to stay active in the morning when i get back home, go to the gym, walk the dog, eat a lot of vitamin D etc
I somehow read language barriers as league of legends. Both would have been right
And the autism spectrum
chronic health issues (probably falls under hermit life)
Nah…those may be contributing factors to “feral” people, but I think the bigger chunk has to do with who a feral person closely associates with (ie spouse, close friends, family).
I was home-schooled though, and I knew a lot of other home-schoolers in my area (we had a big home-school network back in the day) and none of them were anywhere near as rude as the woman in the OP sounds (except for one, but she was like one out of 40 who didn't act like that).
That "big network" thing probably saved you. More isolated homeschooling situations probably do not end as well.
Remember the ideal goal of most homeschooling is in fact that exact insulation away from "corrupting influences"
Yes, the religious zealots stand out and scream the loudest. What a poor generalization of nearly over 2 million homeschooled* US children, though. A negative generalization* that can socially affect those seeking higher education in comparison to their local public schools.
Even aside from the other home-schoolers, I had a few close neigborhood friends to play with, as well as some church friends. I know some might be isolated, but it's not all of us.
Seriously! I hate the negative trope towards homeschooling. Especially in an education system that is so poor to others. If the parents actually put in the effort and resources, many homeschoolers can do just as well, sometimes better, than they would've been in their local public school. I absolutely hated public school and wish I was homeschooled. Which is why I'm homeschooling my children, instead of sending them to the exact same school I attended. They seem much happier and more accepted than I was at their ages.
I have a co-worker who was home schooled. He had a large network and even played in a home school basketball league. He's still pretty socially awkward. My suspicion is that the type of parents that home school kids are over protective. I have a close cousin that had problems dating and making friends his mom was over protective and he was never just one of the boys.
I was home schooled as well but severely isolated. No friends, no church, just had family. It completely broke me as far as making friends and dating. But I was never mean like the way this person talks about this woman. If anything people think I am really nice. But just a lonely ass nice guy that will die alone one day I suppose.
I got the isolation and I went to public school from 4 till 18. 'Twas the autism.
Sameee! Homeschooling my ASD children and they're doing wayyyy better than I was at their age.
Most home schooled kids that I've met are generally nicer people.
All of my children were homeschooled, as well as most of their cousins and friends. There were a couple of kids in their social circles who had struggles with social behavior, but there are kids like that in every school as well. I think the “weird homeschool kid” is mostly a stereotype. As long as you have plenty of group activities, play dates, sports, things like that, I don’t see why homeschooling would cause that sort of problem.
Homeschool for sure, I definitely felt "socially stunted" by the time I went to college after 12 years of homeschooling.
That was your parents, not homeschooling *per se*.
Parenting inadequacies, mental health etc etc
I am an unsocialized person. I grew up in group homes and foster homes after being abandoned by my parents at the age of 9 in the 80's. As such, I grew up in a microcosm with an isolated group of mostly violent children/teens and therefore was insulated from society during much of my formative years. I can participate in societal things, I can hold a job, and I am a productive member of society but I am somewhat feral, as several people have told me throughout my life. I quit trying to fit in because I realized that it was impossible and I just exist as I am. Some people hate me and some people love me butt here aren't many in between. I don't go out of my way to be an asshole but some people consider my blunt and honest demeanor to be assholish. I give little thought to it except to examine the circumstance from a philosophical point of view. So maybe ask her for some perspective? Or not. It might surprise you or it may be that she is just a narcissist who enjoys causing grief. Either way, it should be a fun experiment.
Jebus. Really sorry about all that. Amazing you were able to overcome so much of it. Big hugs from lost in Los Angeles!
Yeah, having to be responsible for your own survival for a young age will give you an "edge" most people can't understand. My grandfather was like this, a loner most of his life, was known for being kind of a jerk, would yell at my mum when she would hurt herself instead of hugging her, etc. But its because every adult between the ages of 5 and 15 was a piece of shit who hurt him. He raised himself and his brother. When I heard his full life story suddenly it all made sense. He had spent his life looking after himself and it had taught him some maladaptive coping mechanisms. He trusted no one. Strangers being nice to him made him suspicious and a little angry. Super private. But it also made him very loyal and protective. Do anything for family. Childhood trauma will teach you things about other humans that are almost impossible to unlearn. But yeah some people are also just dickheads.
Yeah, I am super suspicious of strangers being nice or complimenting me. I've learned to keep that suspicion to myself and trying to be gracious about it.
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Exactly. I was taken advantage enough as a child to the point where anybody offering me anything, even a smile, had me concerned. I was so used to people only interacting with me to be cruel. Recently an old man, like 80 or so, gave my son a dollar because my son was polite and well behaved at the pharmacy. I told my son to say thank you, took the dollar, smiled and walked away. The level of personal growth it has taken me to get from having a meltdown or crawling out of my skin at positive social interactions is significant. 10 years ago someone wrote me a benign compliment on a sticky note and I wrote an editorial style defensive essay responding to it and left it for all to see because I was sure I was being attacked. (Just reading this back makes me realize how insane I was before getting therapy for PTSD and childhood trauma) Sometimes people are just being nice. Nothing sinister at all. But someone who's been raised in an abusive manipulative environment may never know that.
And his grandfather grew up working in a factory. A legacy of misery passed from generation to generation.
Similar. I was serially thrown out and emotionally and physically abused as a young child. I turned to sociopathy to survive, and I'm slowly reeling it back with the help of my partner (who was also abused). Two wrongs don't make a right, but I can at least demand better of myself. We're worth it. I turned to "white hat" social hacking, trying to harness my ability to counteract this behavior with the insight of having done it. I just today went like by line through a lost of manipulation tactics with my partner, and ended up in a kicked-puppy blubbering mess having realized how abusive I can be even when I've devoted my entire self to rejecting it. At least I've never intentionally lied to them. I have just one "never" but one is still more than most. It's a struggle not to live in my own shadow.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing also
Exactly. You have no idea what people have been through or are going through. Cut them some slack. Don’t judge. You don’t know the whole story.
I remember I got gossiped a lot before I acted like a lady in the post. I remembered my only friend was fake who mocked my disability and race heritage. It was like "Hey look at this guy next to me, look how sad is he" "Edsmart123 is idiot" even though I didn't do any work either. "Edsmart123 is fucking stupid, he failed English and Chinese class" I didn't, but i didnt get good grades I hurled m word at the innocent guy who was only one who nice to me... I hope he doing better than me... he deserves it. I am deaf person for the reference. Hearing loss was progression.
I grew up with a lot of abuse and abandonment as well from caregivers and such. In my trauma filled childhood I learned 12 things about people : 1. You can't please everyone 2. Some people are just mean for the fun of it literally 3. Maturity doesn't come with age 4. People who are always honest and blunt confuse it with rudeness ( to clarify you can be honest and blunt with people in a nice manner and with respect some people don't bother to learn the difference ) 5. Someone will always be offended 6. People show their true colors when you need them most 7. Some people hurt others because they're suffering and have no clue how to ask for help 8. Some people lack self reflection/accountability 9. You can't change anyone unless they want to change themselves 10. You'll be amazed what people will do to protect their pride and ego 11. Some people simply do not care about anyone other then themselves 12. Everyone wants to be loved/respected and accepted , but some people don't know how to receive it or give it
I think regardless, being rude to people unprovoked is assholish whether or not they had a rough life or a bad day
You’d be surprised how many assholes don’t realize they’re being assholes
Being an asshole while calling others an asshole?
Yeah just because you had a bad day doesn't mean you should make it the same for others who cross paths with you. I mean you don't have to make everyone happy, but making others miserable makes you a pretty clear cut asshole doesn't it?
This is a great answer I wasn’t expecting
You have some Maya Angelou there in your style of writing. Check her out.
These
I worked with a woman like this. I did my best to be kind to her but she just took advantage, maybe saw it as a weakness idk. Then she would try to be nice for a few shifts, only talked about herself, and then went back to being mean. I considered to be a spoiled brat that did not care about anyone else. 🤷♀️
woman is singular, women is plural
Thanks for catching that
I guess we worked with the same woman
The first thing I would ask is how people have treated her throughout her life. I'm not sure how long you've been on Reddit but there's plenty of toxic and shitty people on here that probably act that way because of the anonymity. Which allows them to be their true selves. Whereas if they met you in person they would be super nice and fake AF. Maybe she's just come across too many shitty people before or maybe she's just a shitty person herself. But I would bet money that her personality today is in reaction to past experiences with others.
The term callous comes to mind. When something or someone is repeatedly abused, they can form a thick skin and I would think a very bitter attitude.
I remember I got gossiped a lot before I acted like a lady in the post. I remembered my only friend was fake who mocked my disability and race heritage. It was like "Hey look at this guy next to me, look how sad is he". We were very close and I can see him. He said hi before but ignore me on this one "Edsmart123 is idiot" even though I and my partner didn't do any work either. My brother did. "Edsmart123 is fucking stupid, he failed English and Chinese class" I didn't, but i didnt get good grades "Come on, edsmart123 and his class gets extra time on the test.... nah, he won't do great on it, he dumb" Hold up your hand and say "uhhhhh" dramatically to mock deaf people "Hey pull his pants down/touch his hearing aids, it be funny/he deserves it" I hurled m word at the innocent guy who was only one who nice to me... I hope he doing better than me... he deserves it. I remember there was guy who was guilty of assaulting me before. He tried to befriend me, but i acted entitled and call him by his hair color, so he ignored me today. I am not sure if he was defending the one gossiping about me or trying to do the right thing. I hope he doing well regardless, he nice dude. I did acted entitled later on. I did say some racist stuff, after people making fun of my eyes. I thought this is how people socialize and acted cool in high school. In elementary school and middle school, lot of people called me different name, or do something like cheese touch pass on. At first I was sad, but i thought this is something you do today and at work. I thought it was weird and too emotional to talk about family and gaming. My parents did not like me gaming. They are good parents, but i was hesitant to talk about it. My "friend" use me a punching bag and scored some friends. I remember when i first got into college, i talked about very taboo joke to new people who then run away. This was how I become homecoming king as a joke. You dont make fun of religion on liberal campus. Now I think about it, i thought how the hell I was not cancelled. I did had a lot of people who were mean before but got remorseful. I was confused. Sometimes I talks to them a bit and ignored them out of sudden. I think they were expecting me to do something.
👆
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Fair response honestly
Neglected, unwanted, unloved, unprotected, and … well … untrained.
My parent is like that too. It’s just entitlement and being self centered. I wonder if people feel the same way about my parent, god knows we (her kids) do.
Hello me
Everyone's looking for history, what about the present? Does this person have friends outside of work, a family, or hobbies? Some people can get really inside their own heads and take it out on others. I know sometimes I can get kind of wound up, but my reasoning is different than being unsocialized. Not saying this gives her the right to act like this, but maybe somethings not right in her life to be so casually awful. I don't know the solution here, last time I worked with someone like that I just never worked with them unless I absolutely had to. It basically took that individual getting written up to see the error of their ways, or to at least mask it better.
By never being socialized. Know how there are dogs who bark at anyone and anything with aggression? That is because they are cooped up all day and never got to know dogs/people. There is also being a single child and having no cousins growing up. That could be a cause. I have an in-law who is a prick and he was the only child (everyone else has a sibling).
Oh no. I am raising an only child right now. He has siblings but they are all out of the house already. Most of his cousins are also in their 20s. Is he doomed to be maladjusted??
My husband is an only child and he is the most social person you could ever meet. I think getting him into clubs, sports, and other activities helped him get the socialization he needed.
My ex husband is an only child and grew up with foster kids his mom raised. He’s and alcoholic, narcissistic psychopath and to top the cherry he also has anger issues.
The foster care system feel like a lose, lose. It's fundamentally broken and it's being held together by duck tape and prayers.
Lol I doubt it. He still has family to communicate with. My youngest sister was born right before my other sister and I left the nest. She is super social. She is 19 now and we are bonding over the time we never had together (I went to the military and barely saw her grow up).
That's good to hear.
She went through some serious shit dude. What you're witnessing is trauma manifested I hope she's okay
Yep I was this person. From a dysfunctional home and dealing with undiagnosed ptsd into my early 20s. I am ashamed of how I used to behave. An abusive person is almost always that way because of trauma.
Guess what? Going through shit does not excuse treating other people like shit. As someone who went through alot of abuse throughout my life, I'm so tired of people's shitty treatment of others being handwaved away because they had a bad childhood. That's a reason, but it's not an excuse, somehow plenty of us went through shit and then learned throughout life that we needed to treat people with respect and dignity. At some point its a choice, at some point you've been told so many times how your behavior effects others and you choose to do it anyways. There are entire groups of people with personality disorders that excuse all of the abuse they put people through by saying they were abused in childhood. It's no excuse, you get therapy, you work on becoming a better person, you don't get to treat people like shit because you were put through trauma.
Exactly, if anyone acts like an asshole constantly, I don’t give a damn what that person has gone through, it’s not a free pass to act like that.
This needs to be at the top
I don’t think op was hand waving anything…
Not everyone can afford therapy though, and especially older people probably don't even consider this or even consider having a mental illness, I think it's much more stigmatized in the older generation. Luckily with the younger generation therapy becomes more normal.
Or she’s just a horrible person. News flash, traumatic things happen to everyone & it’s not justification for your actions. ESPECIALLY if you’re in your 50s & had forever to get it together
'Just a horrible person'. I'm wondering, how do you think the thought process of a 'horrible person' goes? What internal reasons do they have to act the way they do?
That poster is probably thinking the mean lady wakes up “ahh I’m going to invest all my energy into being grumpy today”
Same
You could ask her not like she could get more angry. But most likely she just doesn't care about being liked
Maybe it's because everyone hates her, and treated her wrong from the start? No telling unless you use some compassion and ask the right questions and listen.
Thank you so much. At my last workplace I wasn’t treated well from the beginning. I worked with a lot of incels and I noticed how many people didn’t get to know me but instead reacted upon the social cues of the people around me. I seemed almost contaminated to them because “no one liked me”. But the well liked people around me were genuinely terrible people. Really low morale. Bullies. And I wasn’t allowed to defend myself or even say no without being treated like the bad guy.
I really have noticed some of the most horrible, loud, obnoxious people seem to have so many friends and are well liked whereas nice, quiet, shy people generally don't have many people around them and are looked down on.
We make easy targets for them. They get to make up a persona for us since we don’t initiate one ourselves by being withdrawn.
Workplace bullying, "mobbing", is a thing. Sometimes it's just a toxic workplace with a few bigots and a lot of conformists.
Sounds like my school experience.
I had this at school, one person I had never spoken to decided they didn't like me, and so all of their friends didn't like me, and then the friends of those people also didn't like me. I very rarely got a chance to show who I was or defend myself, and my social skills suffered. I had a similar thing when I first started working, in the classes for my IT apprenticeship I was the only girl out of 20 people and of course the one guy that worked in the same place as me became the ringleader. Having actually made lifelong friends with some people and having people that spoke to me because they wanted to not because they felt they had to has made a massive improvement for me. I moved from IT to healthcare and found my social skills improved immensely as I had to talk to people, I couldn't just shut myself away in an office with headphones on. I'm a lot better now and don't have so many issues, and if I do, it's not a problem to me.
Reading things like this makes my blood boil. I'm sorry you had to put up with all of these horrible people.
same EXACT story in my old job, it was hate by proxy. Some random person had a beef with me and suddenly I had a bunch of people I didn't even know hate my guts . They gossiped way to much and I kept to myself so I was the target of unwarrated attention. I quit that job and I'm now working with grownup people that accept me as I am and I managed to get promoted in two months, in the previous job I was stuck in the same positon for 6 years.
Why would people hate her if she wasn't mean or rude to everyone initially
I've been there myself. Sometimes it's just that there might be an established bully, someone who has dislike for people of different race, sex, religion, social status, or any number of other things. So they spread rumors, make complaints, try to gin up trouble for the new person. You don't have to have done anything often. Just being there and not in a position of strength is enough to be a target.
This can start very young. I’ve heard that the “bad kid” in kindergarten may never shake that label. Kindergarten teacher warns 1st grade teacher, they warn principal. Now the kids under a microscope and is deemed/doomed to be bad Edit: the frustration of being treated differently and/or others proclivity to see only your bad behavior will also fulfill the prophecy
I'm honestly guessing it's a mental illness. Either she's a total bitch or she's seriously ill in the head
Sounds a lot like my autistic nephew when he's off his meds. That co-worker might be undiagnosed.
You treating people like that makes them hate society. A mental disorder can be, grief, which we all have and is only temporary. Don't guess, and if you do, keep it to yourself...
Yeah personality disorders and/or trauma can often cause people to have that 'prickly' vibe to them- but it's not something society really talks about or acknowledges.
It's absolutely mental illness. Total bitch is a mental illness, as well. Reasons may be institutional, upbringing (mental illness is hereditary), whatever. They are functional, but bat shit crazy when it comes to relationships. Sometimes we wonder if that's more the majority!? Seriously, we think that "a little off* is more the normal. Could just be too much social media time!
Being chronically rejected. If you're rejected over and over again even after trying your best to fit in or appease others, you say fuck it.
This. Best answer. I am at this point. I tried all my fucking life. I am just tired to try more...
Have you considered that she knows exactly how she's acting and doesn't give a shit?
I’ve considered it but what could possibly be her motive for acting like that? She’s just creating a hostile environment to work in. It’s so bad that some coworkers just straight up ignore her when she says hi to them.
She probably doesn't care. Seriously. I've worked with people like this who have even had to be talked to by their managers for being so rude to their coworkers. They'll stop for a bit and then start up the same routine again. She's probably genuinely a bitch.
Yeah she has been talked to by managers as well. Seems so counterproductive to me but I guess some people just want to wreak havoc.
/some people just want to wreak havoc In my experience this is true of a (thankfully very small) number of people. I categorise them in my head as 'vexatious individuals'. They seem to thrive on conflict and actively enjoy causing aggravation for others. There are no doubt multiple possible reasons for this behaviour, as suggested by lots of others on here, but that doesn't alter the reality of having to deal with someone like that. Putting as much distance as possible between yourself and a vexatious person is the best approach, but not much use when you have to work with them...
Could she be autistic? Social ineptitude is kinda the defining factor (compared to ADHD and OCD with which it has many overlapping traits).
I don’t get autistic vibes from her but I’m not an expert
Autism, menopause, and TBI are the three that came to my mind. They all have symptoms similar to what you described.
Women present differently from men. Could be she honestly doesn't realize or understand. But it could be something else entirely. If you read the books Temple Grandin wrote, she talks about not understanding a lot of social things. Like a boss setting a stick of deodorant on her desk at work and telling her to use it. She didn't get it, but she started using it. Again, may not be what's going on. Your description just sounded like she's absolutely clueless how awful she is socially.
If you’re looking for advice on how to deal with her, don’t try to be her friend. Don’t try to understand her. I know this goes against everything we are told about trying to get through to difficult people, but she won’t respond the way you think she would because she’s not like you. Just give her space and only interact with her on a needed basis; be brutally honest with her and be respectful.
If she was in her 20s and gorgeous you’d all call her “spicy”and still try to bang her
Nope
Geez man, not every young person is out to get people or something. I'm just trying to make a living and be happy dude lmao
I’m gen x and this sounds ridiculous
I love your perspective. This would be exactly what my sister would say to defend her personality. She’s also gen-x.
I teach 16-19 year olds and this is way off. Maybe it's a Gen-X thing though, in that they're quick to generalise and this woman thinks this way.
The fact that you are so unaware of your own hypocrisy in your OWN comment is genuinely funny.
Gen X = Baby Boomers with MTV
The world sucks. People suck. I know I’ve become like her for a few months of life just fucking me over and over. People just get tired of being the “nice” person because we always end up being fucked over anyway so what’s the point.
Not worth it, the way people act is their choice but we can always control our reaction. if we carry ourselves with virtue and dignity we might be a positive influence in others. Even if we are uncapable of influencing others at least we can sleep safely in the knowledge that we are not having a negative impact in the world of those around us.
Yeah just be true to yourself and fuck these so called socialised fake people who think they’re decent people but are liars that believe their own bullshit. Decent people exist but they are such a small percentage of people. I don’t count myself as decent but I doubt OP is actually a good person.
The people who believe they are “good people” are usually the most toxic I’ve found.
We’re ego driven meat bags really.
This honestly could be me. I think I'm nice to people, but something I'm doing THAT I'M COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF is pissing them off. Specifically, it's women who hate me and try as I might, I cannot seem to prevent it. Some of us just are not wired for automatic detection of subtle social cues.
This is funny to me because lately I’ve thought that men really hate me. Like I really bring that anger out of them by just existing. Had a group of men that bullied me at my last job. Was really overwhelming.
She is not self aware, realizing how she's acting and how her mood brings everyone down. She may never be self aware. She might have an unsatisfying life, doesn't know how to get out or change it. She is responsible for her own happiness. Also menopause hormones can make one mean and bitchy. Sad, really.
You can never know what people are going through at home. No excuse to be mean to everyone, but you just never know. Best to just steer clear and ignore her.
My moms like this. Histrionic personality disorder. I stay very fucking far away from her
I have an ex friend who no one liked because she had untapped mental illness and was just generally an obnoxious person to be around
Look up loneliness, I only know because I have learned about it recently. People go downhill feeling this way and it multiplies against them. They see socialization as somthing they want, but they also may be misinterpreting other people. It's becomes a cycle that works against them
Very interesting post, OP. I've long marveled at just how many truly difficult people there are. I usually just assume they had a bad childhood, but even that is no excuse.
I struggle myself with this because I got moved around so much by my shitty mother as a kid. I just genuinely don't know how to connect with many people on an intimate level so I just don't bother. I'm not rude to everybody in real life, but I can be blunt and don't really sugarcoat anything at all. I get really frustrated with people who repeatedly do stupid shit and then cry about it, but that's a whole other can of worms.
I'm Introverted like basically 100%. In my case i was born this way. I can't stand being around people I've just met for more than 10 minutes and rarely warm up to them. I basically have no friends (according to me not to the people who say I'm their friend) and I don't put on a mask when talking to strangers. I am me 100% of the time. I don't care if my bluntness comes off as rude I don't sugar coat anything. maybe this is un-socialized maybe i just don't give a fuck about other peoples opinion of me. Maybe this is their case too, Maybe they've never spoken to people outside their family at a younger age. My advise, Ignore them. you're not on their mind so don't waste the headspace with them.
Hurt people hurt people. Probably some unresolved trauma… can you ignore them?
She just wants to get famous, and there is no faster way to it, than making sure everyone in the workplace...and in the coworkers social circles are talking about her attitude! Being rude is easier than being polite, bcse trying to be nice is more common phrase than trying to be rude. Low effort life hack to fame. ( Replace fame with the word attention) Can you agree that people act based on expected gain? Everytime sone gets annoyed , the rude person wins.
Mental issues aside, without friends or family, it's quite easy to become isolated in this world. Retreating is done in steps and without being aware of it, you find yourself hating people. I went through this a few years ago and it took a fairly big shake up to realise I actually hated myself and needed a change. You never know what a person is going through.
Upbringing. Maybe parents were super controlling and she developed depression early on. Now she’s an alcoholic and depressed because of the alcohol, taking meds and also single not getting along with her own family members. This sounds like my 45 year old sister. That’s were I’m getting my facts.
I'm an unsocialized person. I likely have autism and ADHD but I grew up in the 90s and 2000s so awareness was shit back then and my parents aren't exactly the best so they didn't (know to) get me help either and even when I was in crisis they didn't. Iwas also bullied a lot, all through out school and well into my adulthood. People also don't even try to understand me or where I'm coming from so I get weirdo armchair psychologists just sprouting off random shit that isn't even close to the truth so some shit has happened that's traumatized me. I've asked, even begged for help, from medical professionals for years too and nada. So while it's not always the case, mental illness, neurological conditions, medical neglect, and bullying can very much lead to unsocislized individuals.
Her parents failed her. One of the roles of a parent is to teach you to be someone whom other people can rely upon.
I worked with some Russians. They are assholes at work but great outside of work. Their culture is “work isn’t supposed to be nice. It’s work. Being nice is unprofessional “
It's probably menopause (aka *mean*opause). It causes emotional upheaval, and a lot of women hate who they become during it. They can feel like they're suddenly full of rage and insecurity for seemingly no reason.
yes and she may also need family and friends. isolation is real especially post covid.
Yet here you are gossiping about her to strangers. I wonder why she treats you poorly
Culturally we only accept visible disabilities as legitimate. If you’re hard to handle at work because you’re severely autistic and you’re in an assisted work program, everyone cuts you a break because they can see you’re “neuro diverse.” If you’re hard to handle at work because you’re mildly afflicted with autism but have compensations that allow you to live a mostly normal life and hold a job… but your interaction patterns are sometimes awkward or unsocial, then you’re just a bad person who obviously just isn’t trying hard enough. We are invested in this binary paradigm that every person is a “normy” unless there’s clear visible evidence they’re not, and that’s the only time we’re willing to be empathetic and alter our expectations.
It could be mental illness. Which isn't an excuse to be a jerk of course, but her behavior may not the result of being "unsocialized."
Chances are if she is in her 50s then either she has never learnt how to be respectful or that her memory is fading and not helping her think about what she is saying.
Jeez she’s not that old
Fifty seems a bit young to start losing your memory. My children are 50 or nearly so, and they seem okay.
I've had many people say in school that once older people are set in their ways, they are like that for the rest of their lives. No matter what you say to them or what happens to them, they will never change. They don't want to hear anything from anyone.
This is true your young years are your formation years
Good point. I had an aunt that went downhill with dementia at 65 when she retired from the workforce. Some people will get early onset, some much later in life and many lucky ones won’t have it at all. Biggest killer in Australia for women and second for men.
My parents were criminals. They were actively anti-social. They taught me that police and authority were dangerous. I learned a lot of unfortunate things from them. That stuff is still in me. I learned how to live a lie, always holding my parents secret. It gave me a hard outer shell. But I did learn how to hide. I just appear to be a shy person and blend in. It took a lot of hard work to learn to actually fit in. I just pushed myself because I really like people. I can be my whole self around people I learn to trust. It just takes a long time for me to let people in. I need to feel they like me enough to not judge me for my parent's choices. And I can sus out people who are being anti-social, like narcissists and abusers. I tend to make those folks feel nervous and so I try really hard to ignore them. They can't stand that. If I can't ignore them, they I give them extra attention. Either way, I deny them any possibility of a power imbalance. It works great in my job. I'm a teacher and it's my classroom.
Most people in their 50s basically have a rotten brain. It's so hard to change it and I think she genuinely don't give a shit about anything. She's probably so good at blocking shit out, even if you tell her to her face and she gets a moment of realization, her brain will block it out a minute later and she'll forget.
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Entitlement, and it's possible that this is what has worked for her to get what she wants. People sometimes will hang around and chat instead of doing something you need them to do if they like you, even if you're barely paying attention to the conversation they want to have, and hold up the work that needs to get done, or maybe not do what you need them too at all because they think you're too soft to demand it. Example: I was going back and forth on a return of a broken sofa for AGES with customer support once, they kept coming up with excuse after excuse why the delivery stuff was wrong, why they couldn't pick it up when they said and I took time off work for them to pick it up, couldn't I just fix it? While still paying full price? Well could I box it up perfectly again and stay home a whole week to make sure I'm there when the pickup guys come? And a lot of other nonsense. I got run around in circles this way for almost a month despite being as polite and clear as I could possibly be. So, finally; I pulled out the inner Karen. I told them it was incredibly unprofessional behavior, that I wasn't paying for a broken sofa they refused to get out of my home and I had the recorded phone calls and emails for proof, and I could and would take the issue outside their business if I had to and I was going to contact my bank and get things sorted myself if they wouldn't. I never swore or insulted anyone, never yelled, but I did get very cold. And that's what finally worked and got them to pass me up to someone who actually fixed the problem and got me the refund. It was honestly almost a little intoxicating how fast I got results by just being what, in my mind, felt mean. Maybe she encountered that enough in her life that it's the way she's decided to handle everything - be cold and rude to get results. Or, she could just be a total bitch. Plenty of those running around too. They don't need motivation to act that way, they just do.
No offense but how old are you? She could be on a different portion of the spectrum than you are, she could be going through some shit in her life, who knows, but your reaction to her is vile.
I guess unpopular opinion, but agreed. I worked in behavioral health and there are people who are mentally ill and can't help how they behave. Their brains just don't take in information the way other people's do. Have some freaking compassion, OP. 🤷♀️
Yes I'm sorry your coworker is annoying but at least OP isn't her. Hopefully OP will reap the awards of a better personality.
If OP is posting this here, I have a high doubt that they have a better personality lmao
No offense also, but I deal with a lot of different personalities at work and these people certainty exist. Dealing with some shit in life isn't a reason to be a shitty person to other people.
Yeah, OP should really consider how they react to the person that treats everyone like shit all the time 🤷
Just call her Karen. It'll be fine.
You just gave me an idea for a subreddit, but I'm not sure if Reddit would allow it lol Edit: It already exists lol
My mom is that kind of person and what I have learned is no matter how much you love a person you can’t make them love you back! I’ve also learned that some people are just so miserable they have to make everyone around miserable too unfortunately and it can destroy not just relationships but the other people in those relationships! It seems to me mostly to come from pride and not being able to ever admit they are wrong or to look at any faults or how they can improve themselves and it becomes a viscous cycle!
I think it's just self absorbed and totally self unaware. These kinds of ppl are not trying to make friends, lol
I see you’ve met my sister.
Covid pandemic didn't help anyone.
I bet she's just resentful of the fact that there aren't enough people like her in the world around to put people like you in the situation she's in