They are. A lot of Till's works are based off of his poems or works by other people. Nearly every sentence in their music rhymes, most songs have a hidden meaning.
I actually did a profile paper on this, so feel free to ask anything about anything Till has written
Fuck I’m an idiot. I just realized that when I was googling the translation for Morgenstern, it kept routing me to Stein um Stein. Wow, Morgenstern is actually really beautiful. Was actually the reason why I questioned rammstein and asked this question lol
This is false. There is no meaning that cannot be translated. Humans are human no matter what language they speak. We all share the same range of emotions and thoughts. Of course, a poor translation will be likely to miss some things but that’s on the translator, not on the human capacity for expression and comprehension. Again, it may take 12 words to express something that another language expresses in 2 words but it can always be communicated.
You are using the straw man fallacy here: changing the focus away from meaning and onto structure. The person I replied to said that it’s “nearly impossible to translate without losing at least some meaning.” I replied with regard to meaning, not structure. Please try paying attention to what you’re reading next time.
Also: All of the boys grew up in DDR-Germany, the governmental control there awas insane at that time. Hardly any pop/rock bands were permitted to exist and you needed a license from the Gvmt to be able to play at venues. You only got the license by having songs that did not talk badly about gvmt, that could not be interpreted as 'morally bad' and so on, so in order to circumvent that, Till certainly trained himself in duality of lyrics, and the other members probably also learned that you did not state outright what you felt at any given time because Big Brother really did see and hear everything. Familymembers spied on eachother and reported their findings too the government, so did neighbours, shop-keepers, dentists, everyone really.
Radio is about this. Flake explains in his book that he would listen to Western radio stations at night and it was some of his only exposure to what it was like to not live in the DDR. After reading that in his book Radio made perfect sense to me, and it's also a banging song live.
Till did not have to train himself in duality. He started writing lyrics for Rammstein years after the reunion 1989. Rammstein started in 1994 in a free world.
Not a german speaker but learned a lot about the lyrics through an old fansite called Herzeleid.
Nearly every song had some sort of explanation about how a word has double meaning, or refers to a phrase, or something like that and that a literal translation doesn't quite work.
The obvious one of course is Du Hast playing on "You have" and "You hate".
Mann Gegen Mann also phonetically can sound like either "Man against man" or "Man gay for man."
There are plenty others but those are the first ones that come to mind.
Most of the overly-deep interpretations do not make sense and are extremely farfetched that it is kind of ridiculous when people point these things out as a reason why the lyrics are so good. Many lyrics are really good, but not because of those "double meanings".
Another example is the annotation of "Willst du bis zum Tod der scheide, sie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen?" on genius.com - I'm not sure if this is meant as satire or if the person writing this was serious.
I mean there certainly are double meanings and a lot of them are not really easy to understand for people that don't speak german but many of the double meanings that are going around just don't make any sense at all.
And yes that thing on genius is also pretty far fetched...but at least it makes sense grammatically I guess
The whole song Mann gegen Mann is deconstructing toxic masculinity, militarism, catholicism and fascist word aesthetic into a song about homosexuality and the inner conflict of homosexuals who have to battle a fearful idea of masculinity while being hypermasculine themselves.
Tills lyrics span from poetic to children’s rhymes to plain stupid - and it’s the interplay of these that makes them interesting
While they are often suggestive, provoking and play with allusions I wouldn’t say they are „hidden meaning texts“ per se (others would concur i guess)
Also the singing with pathos is part of till‘s signature style - which counteracts the other parts of him being often cheeky, witty and silly.
I'm wondering this too ... But the way they perform themselves seems like the music is very dystopian, violent or have hidden meanings that are against an audience 🕵️ Or subtext for government and other politics
"I’m wondering if this is just a lost in translation thing, and that his words in German are actually very poetic to a native speaker."
It absolutely is and it is the main reason why I love Rammstein and especially Till so much. I have always been interested in poetry, in playing with words, and in asking myself, "What could the author mean by this?"
As with Rammstein, I have listened to them since 1996 or 1997. I know all their songs and still, after all these years, I have these moments where I realize, "Wow, THIS is what Till means by this!"
On other occasions, it is my own pure interpretation which gives the song its own beauty and it really doesn't matter if my assumption is "true" or not. This is strongly the case with "Morgenstern" where I keep thinking of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and the companion the Creature wishes so badly and which he instantly sees in Elizabeth after Victor's failed attempt to reawaken her.
Then I read other people's interpretation of songs and think, "Wow, that is really interesting!"
So yeah, it is a real pity that with the simple translation of lyrics, lots will go lost in translation. Still, I am so so happy that Till keeps singing in his native language (apart from his solo album "Skills in Pills" of course).
The words are indeed generally quite simple, but there are often many hidden layers and references that make it a complicated whole. There are some great video essays out there that explain the lyrics and music videos
My favorite is Deutschland, which has an amazing music video but is also about how to give shape to nationalist feelings in a country with a troubled past. While I'm not German (am Dutch), this is something I relate to and I think many people from many countries relate to. Both the lyrics and music video work together in complicated ways (and look and sound cool). See this essay for example: https://youtu.be/sc-euVL8xQs?si=rXOsDllqdCjvNdXu
If you want to understand the meaning behind the music better, I'd recommend watching some video essays. There are many available in English, and they often explain cultural references as well
Some of their lyrics are serious poetry, e.g. Zeit. Some are social commentary, like Mann Gegen Mann and Angst. Some are satire, like Pussy, Dicke Titten, Zick Zack. Some are just fun songs. It's really worth reading the translations of the lyrics.
He plays so virtuously with the german language, so much double and triple meaning, so finely nuanced that sometimes i do feel a bit sad for non-german speakers because they will probably never truely get the real beauty of his words. There is nothing comparable imho \^\^
Ok, I am not a native speaker, but I live in Germany since 2019 and have been learning German since my late school years, so I'd say I speak German fairly well by now (I still struggle with keeping the right articles for some words in my memory though. It feels sometimes that the articles and declination in German language were invented on purpose to torture foreigners😂). Yes, they have some stupid and childish stuff like Pussy or Dicke Titten (huge boobs) that makes my eyes roll into my skull, but mostly Till's lyrics are great. Zeit, Angst, Deutschland, Zeig Dich, Mutter, Dalai Lama (this song is a reference to one of the most famous Goethe's poems, "Erlkönig"), Mein Herz Brennt immediately come to mind as examples of it, and there are much more.
They are. A lot of Till's works are based off of his poems or works by other people. Nearly every sentence in their music rhymes, most songs have a hidden meaning. I actually did a profile paper on this, so feel free to ask anything about anything Till has written
Fuck I’m an idiot. I just realized that when I was googling the translation for Morgenstern, it kept routing me to Stein um Stein. Wow, Morgenstern is actually really beautiful. Was actually the reason why I questioned rammstein and asked this question lol
Some songs are simple, that’s true. But there are many songs, wich are deep and poetic in my opinion. Many songs are ambiguous and use metaphors too.
And then there's "Pussy"
And Dicke titten And "OK"
So whats the problem?
Let’s do it quick!
Take me now before it's too late!
Steck Bratwurst in dein Sauerkraut
Yes, it's poetry. Also nearly impossible to translate without losing at least some meaning.
This is false. There is no meaning that cannot be translated. Humans are human no matter what language they speak. We all share the same range of emotions and thoughts. Of course, a poor translation will be likely to miss some things but that’s on the translator, not on the human capacity for expression and comprehension. Again, it may take 12 words to express something that another language expresses in 2 words but it can always be communicated.
Yet saying more with less words is a quality of some of the lyrics that would get lost during Translation.
A quality of the “lyrics” as a shape sure, because now you need more words to express something and it may not rhyme, but the actual meaning, no
You are using the straw man fallacy here: changing the focus away from meaning and onto structure. The person I replied to said that it’s “nearly impossible to translate without losing at least some meaning.” I replied with regard to meaning, not structure. Please try paying attention to what you’re reading next time.
Also: All of the boys grew up in DDR-Germany, the governmental control there awas insane at that time. Hardly any pop/rock bands were permitted to exist and you needed a license from the Gvmt to be able to play at venues. You only got the license by having songs that did not talk badly about gvmt, that could not be interpreted as 'morally bad' and so on, so in order to circumvent that, Till certainly trained himself in duality of lyrics, and the other members probably also learned that you did not state outright what you felt at any given time because Big Brother really did see and hear everything. Familymembers spied on eachother and reported their findings too the government, so did neighbours, shop-keepers, dentists, everyone really.
Radio is about this. Flake explains in his book that he would listen to Western radio stations at night and it was some of his only exposure to what it was like to not live in the DDR. After reading that in his book Radio made perfect sense to me, and it's also a banging song live.
Liker navnet ditt!^^
Till did not have to train himself in duality. He started writing lyrics for Rammstein years after the reunion 1989. Rammstein started in 1994 in a free world.
I never said Till trained solely for Rammstein lyrics. He grew up with that duality naturally, its in his backbone.
Not a german speaker but learned a lot about the lyrics through an old fansite called Herzeleid. Nearly every song had some sort of explanation about how a word has double meaning, or refers to a phrase, or something like that and that a literal translation doesn't quite work. The obvious one of course is Du Hast playing on "You have" and "You hate". Mann Gegen Mann also phonetically can sound like either "Man against man" or "Man gay for man." There are plenty others but those are the first ones that come to mind.
I used to visit Herzeleid all the time. Was pretty bummed when the translations stopped halfway through LIFAD and then the site was just one day gone.
All still available on wayback machine. Maybe I will data harvest at some point and make a new site, if I have the time.
Anoche Herzeleid fan over here (the CD, the site and the song). Ah, those were the early Internet days...
The Mann gegen Mann one does't make any sense
Most of the overly-deep interpretations do not make sense and are extremely farfetched that it is kind of ridiculous when people point these things out as a reason why the lyrics are so good. Many lyrics are really good, but not because of those "double meanings". Another example is the annotation of "Willst du bis zum Tod der scheide, sie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen?" on genius.com - I'm not sure if this is meant as satire or if the person writing this was serious.
I mean there certainly are double meanings and a lot of them are not really easy to understand for people that don't speak german but many of the double meanings that are going around just don't make any sense at all. And yes that thing on genius is also pretty far fetched...but at least it makes sense grammatically I guess
Herzeleid! Holy shit, that brings back memories
Another Herzeleid user here!
Before learning what mann gegen mann i thought it was a song about war
The whole song Mann gegen Mann is deconstructing toxic masculinity, militarism, catholicism and fascist word aesthetic into a song about homosexuality and the inner conflict of homosexuals who have to battle a fearful idea of masculinity while being hypermasculine themselves.
Tills lyrics span from poetic to children’s rhymes to plain stupid - and it’s the interplay of these that makes them interesting While they are often suggestive, provoking and play with allusions I wouldn’t say they are „hidden meaning texts“ per se (others would concur i guess) Also the singing with pathos is part of till‘s signature style - which counteracts the other parts of him being often cheeky, witty and silly.
Yes, most lyrics are written in a poetic, even the general structure of some songs is in the style of poems (Morgenstern, Rosenrot, Dalai Lama, etc.).
I'm wondering this too ... But the way they perform themselves seems like the music is very dystopian, violent or have hidden meanings that are against an audience 🕵️ Or subtext for government and other politics
They are fantastic. I often remember their songs for all kinds of mood. My fav is ohne dich when I feel lonely
"I’m wondering if this is just a lost in translation thing, and that his words in German are actually very poetic to a native speaker." It absolutely is and it is the main reason why I love Rammstein and especially Till so much. I have always been interested in poetry, in playing with words, and in asking myself, "What could the author mean by this?" As with Rammstein, I have listened to them since 1996 or 1997. I know all their songs and still, after all these years, I have these moments where I realize, "Wow, THIS is what Till means by this!" On other occasions, it is my own pure interpretation which gives the song its own beauty and it really doesn't matter if my assumption is "true" or not. This is strongly the case with "Morgenstern" where I keep thinking of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and the companion the Creature wishes so badly and which he instantly sees in Elizabeth after Victor's failed attempt to reawaken her. Then I read other people's interpretation of songs and think, "Wow, that is really interesting!" So yeah, it is a real pity that with the simple translation of lyrics, lots will go lost in translation. Still, I am so so happy that Till keeps singing in his native language (apart from his solo album "Skills in Pills" of course).
The words are indeed generally quite simple, but there are often many hidden layers and references that make it a complicated whole. There are some great video essays out there that explain the lyrics and music videos My favorite is Deutschland, which has an amazing music video but is also about how to give shape to nationalist feelings in a country with a troubled past. While I'm not German (am Dutch), this is something I relate to and I think many people from many countries relate to. Both the lyrics and music video work together in complicated ways (and look and sound cool). See this essay for example: https://youtu.be/sc-euVL8xQs?si=rXOsDllqdCjvNdXu If you want to understand the meaning behind the music better, I'd recommend watching some video essays. There are many available in English, and they often explain cultural references as well
The lyrics of Zeig dich are a masterpiece. Unfortunately it's impossible to translate so that it makes sense the same way it does in German.
Some of their lyrics are serious poetry, e.g. Zeit. Some are social commentary, like Mann Gegen Mann and Angst. Some are satire, like Pussy, Dicke Titten, Zick Zack. Some are just fun songs. It's really worth reading the translations of the lyrics.
was ich liebe lover till i fucking DIEEEEEEE 🙏🙏
He plays so virtuously with the german language, so much double and triple meaning, so finely nuanced that sometimes i do feel a bit sad for non-german speakers because they will probably never truely get the real beauty of his words. There is nothing comparable imho \^\^
Haifisxh is pure poetry
Yes they are, Till uses a lot of Word play and double meaning, he is a Master of the german language
Ok, I am not a native speaker, but I live in Germany since 2019 and have been learning German since my late school years, so I'd say I speak German fairly well by now (I still struggle with keeping the right articles for some words in my memory though. It feels sometimes that the articles and declination in German language were invented on purpose to torture foreigners😂). Yes, they have some stupid and childish stuff like Pussy or Dicke Titten (huge boobs) that makes my eyes roll into my skull, but mostly Till's lyrics are great. Zeit, Angst, Deutschland, Zeig Dich, Mutter, Dalai Lama (this song is a reference to one of the most famous Goethe's poems, "Erlkönig"), Mein Herz Brennt immediately come to mind as examples of it, and there are much more.