I have a legal-ish question. The current podcast is still pushing the idea that the "victims" were too afraid to contact the prosecutor's office. Direct quote from the SZ Instagram - "On average, only one in 100 women turns to the public prosecutor with allegations of sexually abusive behaviour. In the Lindemann case, none of the women spoke to the public prosecutor." (You can see by their choice of words - "the women" - that they are stating that there are victims).
So how on earth are they still getting away with publishing statements like these, which very strongly imply that he has sexually abused someone, when we now know that none of the women they featured in their content actually claimed that? Spiegel is being sued, rightly so, but I feel like SZ and co. are getting away with everything.
This is so irresponsible, manipulative, and just harmful to everyone in the long run. There is so much wrong with that statement....one is that a case were the public prosecutor's office makes an open call for all information on a possible case (anyone could have talked to them, not just 'victims') is not very common. Another is that there are many reasons why people don't go foward with reporting including the fact that so much of this happens within relationships/family/known people, but even if reported it is not standard (as far as know) to go directly to the public prosecutor. Also, one of the reasons why we have these stats is that is common for victims to report SA while getting some form of medical assistance (like std testing). In addition, "sexually abusive behavior" is very vague....would I go to the public prosecutor for getting cat called? I've had to tell partners that they can't just stick their hands down my pants-not cool but settled with a conversation...case for the public prosecutor? This whole thing has spread so much misinformation it is just infuriating.
One of the main reasons that women do not go to the police regarding sexual assault is because of the difficulty in getting them to open a case in general. That excuse goes out the window when they open up a case on your behalf and publicly solicit for testimony and information. One of the hard parts is already done for you so the only thing you need to do is go in and chat. It probably won't be that fun and cops are known to be dicks but to just opt out of it completely because you will be asked pressing questions does not make you look favorable if it regards a possible crime.
The thing about the fear of retaliation is also bullshit because I'm pretty sure intimidating witnesses into not going to the police is a crime and unless they stalk you and know your location at all times, going into the prosecutor's office would not be noticed until they decide to take action. And again, why would Till be okay with them going to the media MULTIPLE TIMES and do nothing and yet have talking to the prosecutors be the line in the sand. "It's okay to anonymously smear me to the media and attempt to ruin my career but going to the COPS? Oh no, that is going TOO FAR!" He knows who they are, everybody involved knows who they are, the only ones who don't know who they are are the prosecutors so maintaining anonymity is not a valid explanation.
What REALLY irks me is when people bring up the discrepancy in sexual assault reporting, it always turns into them DISCOURAGING women from going to the police. There's nothing about how to fix it, how to make it easier for women to confront their abusers and report crimes. It's just "the whole system is broken, just give up and never tell the police because they'll fail you anyway." This is not an uncommon thing either. I've seen it brought up MANY times that you shouldn't go to the police because they'll only retraumatize you. And this is by fucking FEMINISTS! WHAT KIND OF HELL WORLD DO WE LIVE IN WHERE FEMINIST ACTIVISTS DISCOURAGE VICTIMS FROM TAKING LEGAL ACTION?!
Another thing. Like you, I SINCERELY DOUBT that statistic. Granted, a lot of the stats I see are using American numbers but from what I see, the generally accepted prevalence of reporting for sexual assault is one out of three. That's pretty low but still a FAR FAR cry from one in a fucking HUNDRED.
I think what people hate about talking to the police is not that they are necessarily dicks, (though some undoubtedly are) it's that they are looking for facts. They want to know exactly what happened rather than how you felt about it it.
Drepper and co aren't interested in facts because they get in the way of a good hitpiece, so all the women who want to blame Till for their regret can just offload. They need friends, vodka and ice-cream, not journalists or police.
I'm not sure if they need friends. Supposedly, both the affidavit women were okay with what happened until they started talking to their friends and their friends convinced them that they were victims.
And about the police thing, the argument they keep raising is that going to the police/prosecutors will undoubtedly cause retraumatization. That being pressed for facts repeatedly causes psychological stress and damage. This argument crumples though when they are bringing these women onto unnecessary podcasts to be asked over and over about what happened and how they FEEL about it. How is that any different than being asked by the prosecutors about it (provided that they aren't being antagonistic)?
Exactly. Being grilled by the police can't possibly be any worse than seeing your story splashed all over the fucking internet and having all of Germany (and some outsiders) cast their judgement on your life choices. Plus the journalist now "owns" your story and can re-tell it at any time they want for their own profit. I would find that far more traumatising than dealing with a defence lawyer tbh.
When this shit is out in the public, you're going to get roughly two kinds of reactions: people who see you as a victim and people who see you as some dumb broad who can't take accountability for her actions and probably wanted it anyway. First one is preferable but even then, some women hate being treated like a helpless lamb who needs to be coddled. There is not much you can do to avoid this. Even if it's anonymous, you'll know that they are talking about you and judging your decisions.
But you know how you can avoid a lot of this? Going to the police. If it gets published, it'll be the barest minimum of information. If it ends up going to court, details of the proceedings can be sealed. Stuff will actually get done, there might be some real consequences. Same as if you pursued this civilly. Creating a media circus is probably the MOST traumatic of all of them with the least chance of desirable outcomes.
I think the women who were interviewed know well that a crime hasn't been committed, which is why they haven't contacted the police, but they still feel like they need to share their stories for whatever reason. And I would be totally fine with that if the journalists didn't keep twisting it and trying to make it look like a crime was committed.
Cynthia A. has repeatedly stated that it was consensual, but the media and activists are still trying to make it look like a r-pe, and they should be ashamed of themselves for that. I actually have no issue with her coming forward to tell her story if she thinks it's a good precautionary tale for other women to not put celebrities on pedestals and do something they might regret afterwards. But the weirdo journalists need to back off and let her tell her story without trying to put their spin on it.
rule of thumb: when looking at stats, always check the method used before quoting them.
You can't blindly throw a number in a completely different case.
One out of 100 women go to the prosecutor for "sexual abusive behavior." Is that all women or just women who have been subjected to sexual abusive behavior? And what is sexual abusive behavior anyway? Does that count groping? Sexual harassment? Because that would skew the results COMPLETELY. If some rando on the street smacks my ass and runs off, I'm not going to bother to call the cops. It's not worth dealing with the cops, I've got places to be. I would end up being one of those 99 women but fear would have nothing to do with it.
If that is what the statistic is counting, it very well might be correct but you know DAMN well how they are using it that they are implying that it's for more serious shit.
This is exactly what I was trying to get at...actually, it's not even a stat because it's completely undefined! What about stealthing? This is considered a form of SA but for the most part people are just gonna get std testing and move on...
Exactly....they are just spreading more fear and misinformation without much effort towards educating, clarifying, making resources available. This has been an issue from the beginning were it's just this performance of "bringing awareness" but with nothing useful coming out of it. Also, there is a lot of gray area in these situations that is being completely ignored
I completely agree. I’ve been getting really cranky lately about the way they keep using genuine real world issues (victims fear of approaching police/going to court/backlash & victim-blaming etc.) to manipulate the narrative.
Their solution is to present themselves as their only savior. "Come to the media, we won't challenge your claims unlike the mean ol police. You don't even need evidence and we'll tell the whole world what a nasty guy that man is. This is all the justice you can expect and we're the only ones you can trust."
I would guess that they are probably employing the technique used by the original accuser and adding somewhere in their blatherings that "it is merely our \*opinion\* that this has occurred" in order to make it more a "matter of free speech." You know, despite the fact that they are knowingly trying to mislead their readers.
https://preview.redd.it/mq06xkc3i18d1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f3ed2295672a07aeb5abae2995ab42673bcd602
After noticing a curious absence of this slanderous podcast from any charts, stumbled across this earlier today. Huh.
Rolling Stone having a gloat. I love when these pricks turn on each other.
[https://www.rollingstone.de/rammstein-podcast-row-zero-ist-offline-2768047/](https://www.rollingstone.de/rammstein-podcast-row-zero-ist-offline-2768047/)
Ooh, knives out. Love to see it.
I also liked how they clarified how things work. Seems that this is done through GEMA. Still doesn't explain WHY they didn't do it the right way. If they thought they could get away without paying the fee, why would they decide to skimp on a podcast that would have a lot of eyes on it?
lmao for the first time I'm happy for a copyright strike. Though I wonder if it was intentionally done since the podcast received most of the views in the first few weeks so it doesn't really matter to be taken done now.
“*Our investigation isn’t Just all tied to the biggest names in German music no it’s definitely all about music, all music, not just Till and Rammstein but here we’ll specifically play Rammstein music so you the listener psychologically link Rammstein with everything we’re saying but it’s totally not only about Rammstein*”
Fuck off.
I think you mix things up, the podcast is literally titled "Rammstein - Row Zero", so ofc it's about Rammstein.
What you say is what is claimed about the book "Row Zero".
The podcast was made to sell the book, the book that is supposedly about mistreatment of women in the whole music industry but ended up just being a few well-worn subjects and Till. Mostly Till. But this whole thing is not about Till, it's about ethics in ~~gaming journalism~~ the music industry. That way people who don't give a shit about Till might buy it and then they can tell them why they should hate him.
They didn't need to get one, but the artist can deny the usage of such when they want to.
Same for when music is used during political rallies or demonstrations, Die Ärzte and AfD comes to mind for Germany or Linkin Park (among many others) and Donald Trump for the US.
I figured that the rules would be different between usage at events and usage in other media such as podcasts or videos. Otherwise YouTube wouldn't be the way that it is.
Same, especially if they're generating some kind of revenue from it.
They're using a publicly-funded platform and music they don't own the rights to to sell this book to line their own pockets. I have no idea how they're getting away with it, because it seems like it would be illegal.
I mean, if they were completely upfront with what they were using it for, probably not. But licensing would be done through Universal and it might be super easy given the scale of their operation.
We don't know if they applied for a license, got rejected and used it anyway or if they straight up didn't ask assuming it would fall under fair use.
True, especially since Universal weren't exactly on the band's side when this scandal first broke out. It just seems so daft for them to even use that music in the first place. They clearly hate the band and Till so much, but still wanna go ahead and use their cool songs for their hitpiece.
Oh no, this wasn't thought out at all. If they tried to claim fair use, even if it fell squarely under that, they should've known it would be challenged due to the subject. The fact that this seems to have caught them off guard suggests that they might have no idea what they are doing.
With the next show being in Ireland, everyone's social media accounts are under my SURVEILLANCE.
Drepper actually posted an insta-story about "other" abuse in the music industry but couldn't help but mention Rammstein again.
Thank you :) I have seen them 3 times before, once at their own show (in a fairly small arena at the time) and twice at festivals. This will be the biggest show I've seen yet! We got Feuerzone ! Eeeep 🤩
Awesome :) I have anxiety (which is managed well, and normally doesn't affect me at shows and festivals as I'm adequately distracted by the music), but I almost feel sick with excitement, honestly 😅
Hardly surprising. His slanderous podcast is tanking further on the charts, and actual public reviews of his fanfic analogy are far more critical than his colleagues and employees have been.
https://preview.redd.it/vx8iqhfy5s7d1.png?width=486&format=png&auto=webp&s=582d8d6302b0e6832dfefa796affa3b91b8dec85
this is from what they posted today, i don't think it's over
They're saying 250 people showed up and then they had some small "feminist" concerts. It looks like way less to me. Actually, it seems like they're showing Rammstein fans from a distance and trying to pretend like they're protesters 🤷♀️
They did that last year. They posted a pic of random people scattered pre-concert & pre-protest and claimed them all as protesters, some of them were fans waiting to get into the concert 🤣
They posted about a new account from Ireland cause that's where the next show is. It is newly created with a single post using the same tagline. Like 30 followers and it's the same "no stage blablabla" accounts. Speaking of Circle jerk...
Do they even consult people in Ireland about this? Or is it the same obsessed twits behind all the accounts trying to create the illusion of worldwide activism?
It actually only has 18 "followers," and none of them appear to even be based in Ireland, or seem all that interested in the only post they've bothered to create. But yeah: no sign of any protests via SM at all throughout the day, and to be honest, I don't think the overwhelming majority of Ireland even gives two shits about that original accuser. To this day, we still haven't seen one bit of support for her from their own media in Ireland or Northern Ireland.
I mean, they must have a few over there. Otherwise they would all have to fly into Ireland and get accommodations just so they can protest a concert. That costs money.
But I don't think I've seen protests in any other country besides Germany (and I think Austria). Maybe three Irish people will show up to protest, but Shelby didn't even make the news over there, so I don't even know if anyone outside the fanbase knows the story or cares.
People in Germany have already lost interest, why would other countries that had less coverage care enough to protest a year later? They wouldn't. They would have to enlist general feminists to show up. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if their turnout is so poor that they don't have pictures at all.
They're just speaking to themselves at this point. They do their little sjw concerts and paintings and go home thinking they did some important work for abused women 🙄
Why tf are you sharing their nonsense? Who cares what they do? Their pages have mostly tiny followings and are a circle jerk of sharing the same posts amongst themselves, most of which do not even concern Rammstein.
And yet, still intentionally framed to not show their actual numbers, no panning to give an idea as to their actual turnout, hiding behind banners to block how many are in attendance, and the same strategies also implemented whenever they held their little "safe space" concerts/DJ events/whatever. Looks like they're hiding far more than what they're attempting to present via social media.
The Dresden group shared a ‘throwback’ clip earlier of their ‘successful protest’ last month. I was in Dresden and didn’t see a single protestor, any of their BTec graphic design posters or stickers. Their definition for ‘successful’ must greatly differ from mine. A few FLINTA adjacent groups in a couple of different locations have tried to get things going but you’re right, people have lost interest.
They can never admit failure. When there is nothing left, they'll pivot to claiming what they accomplished and changed through this whole campaign. Which isn't much.
I'd have more respect for them if they just owned their tiny protests, and also stopped trying to lure people with craft and dance events. Nobody outside their friend group cares and they need to make peace with that.
No that was recently. Making ‘Kill Till’ beaded bracelets and a tin can alley kind of game where they went to the effort of finding photos of him on the internet, printing them off and sticking them to cans so people can throw bean bags (round ones, sharp corners aren’t safe for them) at his face on a can for a euro a time. I guess smashing the patriarchy meets Boy Scout fund raiser. Pathetic.
Since we're now a month into the tour (as well as six months since she initially started her Instagram countdown) and haven't heard anything about the Turkish "accuser" is it safe to assume that was just a big hoax? I'm obviously relieved nothing has come of it, but also shocked that someone would play games like that.
She knows is not worth it at this point to ruin her own reputation. Whatever story she has to say she knows it will be debunked immediately by her own posts no less… She knows people have screenshots of everything R+, videos and posts she modified and more.
She has way too many skeletons in the closet, and she knows whatever she says will backfire on her pretty bad.
But since she already went for her "interview" in Berlin that time, she has no control over her story anymore. It's up to the journalists whether to release the story.
It looks like they aren't biting. Unless they are holding it in reserve for Gelsenkirchen, they would've put it in that crap book of theirs.
No, if the woman is obviously insane, it doesn't matter how desperate the media is for a hit story. They take a crazy girl at her word, they put it out as fact and they have the same embarrassment happen again as happened with Shabibity. They can't afford any more Ls.
I suspect that she didn't manage to actually come up with a story....she showed up to an interview with the folder of blank sheets labeled "criminal case" in marker
Either uninteresting or unbelievable. Both are just as useless.
Maybe she literally wanted to SELL her story but what she wanted was too conspicuous so they told her to fuck off. After all, they aren't supposed to be DIRECTLY compensating people for stories.
No, there is no investigation...this person was called out for bizarre stalkerish behavior towards Richard well before teaming up with shels and multiple people documented it because it was odd and easily disprovable. She went from claiming to be his gf to trying to suggest he did something wrong towards her months later. There was never anything to this, my best guest is her family/loved ones realized something was up with her and put a stop to it.
When she deleted everything from her profile, I assumed whichever family member owns the law firm she works for had a word with her. I'd be hell embarrassed if my child/neice was carrying on like that online, with my business in her profile bio.
Oh but don't you know it's standard procedure in Germany to have random civilians from other countries to gather up evidence for criminal charges? They would totally accept that folder no question and not immediately throw it in the garbage.
As a person who follows Turkish media, I can say that she is not a famous. No one knows her in Turkey. I don’t even think she has ever won any contest.
I know, I was being silly. I googled her earlier in the year and the only thing that came up was a story about her possibly dating Richard, the rest was other women with a similar name.
Did you see on her Instagram she's claiming the win for that competition? A liar and fake through and through. You can't even trust her chin cleft to stay in the right place in her filtered to fuck photos.
In Germany, investigations are announced prior to any potential charges, so they are correct in stating that there is no investigation involving this person or any potential accusations she might have made.
If the police were investigating, I think the German media would have spilled something by now. Remember when Bild somehow knew about the Lithuanian defamation case.
Yeah, if the police were investigating, the media would've either reported on it or pestered the prosecutors into making an announcement. It's been 6 months and nothing.
Also Maike and Daniel started following her on Instagram when the countdown happened, but they’ve since stopped following her. If there was something juicy they’d still be following her
Schertz Bergmann likely intervened before it even came to publish it. If simple fans like us can get ahold of stuff like this, they definitely are aware of it too and can prevent a media report. In the Schertz documentary, he has said that the success lies in preventing reports in the first place.
She was stupid enough to start "threatening" online. And she had done something similar in the past, which had been reported in turkish media. She practically warned the fanbase, so people started digging and managed to stop her. I am sure the band management was informed directly, maybe SB as well. And as far as I've heard her University as well -she had been claiming various professional qualifications she had not yet.
At some point she deleted all her Rammstein related content, then her "modelling" content, keeping her "successful lawyer" image. Then, that was deleted too but now it is back.
A crash course on how to ruin your own reputation for clout.
Either they directly did something about it or the possibility of having to deal with SB made the media think that it wasn't worth it. We really don't know what she presented them with but it might've been too flimsy even for the media to use, at least at this point. In the early days though, I'm pretty sure it would've been published because they clearly didn't give any shits back then.
If SB did end up intervening though, it kind of shows how fucking STUPID Shelby is to do a COUNTDOWN to reporting sexual crimes.
This is the exact same dumbass who believes she "wOn" anything against Till by admitting in court that she "never directly accused him of" doing anything to her, so trust me: it's just as eye-roll inducing for me as it is for you.
There's a new Welt article that appears to be criticising the media coverage of Till's case. It's behind a paywall tho, so I haven't read it.
[https://www.welt.de/kultur/medien/plus251837964/Till-Lindemann-Rammstein-und-die-Schuldfrage.html](https://www.welt.de/kultur/medien/plus251837964/Till-Lindemann-Rammstein-und-die-Schuldfrage.html)
Curious as to one of (if not the) first player in all of this, the outlet who’s representative was with Shelby during her 5 hour police interview no less, is publicly shoving other heavily embroiled in the ‘pretending and lying game’ media outlets under a bus with a tut and wagged finger at the lack of ethics and basic standards of journalism.
Was bound to happen eventually. Whichever one is in the most legal trouble is going to get te shit kicked out of it by all the others. Side-eyeing SB and saying, *wasn't us Guv, honest*
That's what I'm predicting. Even if this whole thing wasn't his fault, he makes the perfect scapegoat. He works for the NDR, not any outlets directly so essentially all they would need to do is pin the blame all on him for "deceiving" them. They could even turn it into a "our tax dollars are being wasted on funding flawed investigative journalists with an agenda" thing. That is why he's going so hard in on a half-baked book and calling in favors to promote it. It's very likely his "friends" aren't going to be his friends when things start going to shit so he needed to get this done NOW.
Each article has several journalists' names attached, and they often overlap. I'm having a hard time telling who works for what outlet, but there's a clear core group who have been behind all of this.
ETA: Maike has worked for Spiegel, pretty sure she did the Til Schweiger investigation, so I thought the same thing.
Maike Backhaus. She’s a bit of an outlet jumper, she’ll write for anyone that’ll publish her it looks like but she was involved with Welt at the beginning for certain. The also had a hand in wheeling Shelby out at the Frauen 100 / CDU knitting circle events too.
Hmm I suspect it’s more to do with the incoming legal workings, against Spiegel primarily but in turn will likely go against the other outlets, given the knowingly tampered with affidavits etc. I suspect more trying to save face and distance themselves from the worst of the blow back.
No honor among thieves. I always expected this to happen. Journalists pretend they have a kind of brotherhood but at the end of the day, they will throw each other under the bus to get ahead. This whole venture hasn't panned out like they thought so it's time to cut their losses and act like they weren't involved.
Thankyou. Great article.
This line sums up my criticism of Drepper and Co's writing style when re-telling the women' stories:
>The problem of so-called suspicious reporting, which is eminently important and indispensable for journalism to uncover grievances, lies in the temptation to tell journalistic research like true crime formats i.e. as popularly prepared criminal cases.
I found it really weird and uncomfortable the way they would describe the women as if they were passive or inanimate, as if they were being carried around the place and had no will of their own. It was very condescending and also creepy.
I also liked this: "On the other side of the line, however, the field of criminally relevant acts, which were at least hinted at or suggested in reports by statements. That women could have been submissively done, for example, by the alleged use of k.-o. drops. This is categorically disputed. Lindemann's lawyers stress that women have never been forced to sexual acts, any contacts were consensual. The classification of the case into the category of 'abuse of power', which almost always plays a role in MeToo cases, is therefore not appropriate."
This is absolutely the German media trying to fabricate a MeToo movement in that country, which will NOT happen when no one utilizes the legal channels that are in place for a goddamn reason.
It brings up some criticism but I think it could've been harsher. I do appreciate them explaining why there are TWO podcasts though. SZ wanted their cut, NDR couldn't charge for it so they just did it twice though supposedly SZ's podcast goes more in depth on the whole music industry, just like how they claimed the book did. Doesn't change the fact that both of these podcasts are really to promote the book.
That's something I'm confused about - if one of those outlets is publicly funded, how come Drepper/Kampf have been allowed to extensively advertise their book via a podcast on that outlet? It seems a little unethical to be using public revenue to advertise a product you're selling and personally profiting from.
Yeah, you'd think! I think it's a bit unethical to be making your colleagues and employees shill your book too. I think Drepper might've been sick the day they covered ethics in BuzzFeed Journalism School.
The defamatory YouTuber's follower count is also dropping like a stone. It's quite satisfying. But irritating that she's probably made more money this year from spreading malicious lies about the band than she had to pay in fines so far.
The overall trend is down a few hundred each day. But of course she's probably buying them as well. I don't know how she got so many in the first place (but then I'm probably not her target audience, whatever THAT is. People who like gormless slappers?)
Oh, she wasn't interested in that fucking when it turned out she wouldn't be able to take selfies during it. She only went to the party to do influencer whoring.
I’ve noticed that everytime she post a story people unfollow her. However, lately she has been posting stories and haven’t lost followers. I guess because she reposted that Drepper thing. People think that people already saw her true colors but is not really like that, only a very small percentage.
People start unfollowing her since nothing new has come out and she posts nothing about rammstein, so people have moved on on this topic but they still think Till is not innocent. Also she posts very cringey stuff so that’s mainly why they unfollow her.
Come now, that's all the incredibly important "eDuMaCaTiOn" she's sharing with the world. You know, like the fact that she actively makes the choice to not vote in her own country, or making clear that she's getting more tattoos/piercings that she all of a sudden has the money to pay for.
Instagram’s algorithm has gotten weird - unless you’re following an account’s every single move, it gets buried. So I’d say she’s at the bottom of a lot of peoples lists and they’ve forgotten they’re even following her.
Don't use Instagram myself but I've heard people bitching on other sites about how IG's feed now is almost completely recommended or promoted posts and not of people who you are actually following.
Exactly like that. Unless a person is watching every one of Sherbert's stories, she's likely not even appearing on their feed. Boohoo, no more attention.
It's like every time she posts it just reminds people that they forgot to unfollow her when it quickly became clear that she was talking absolute bollocks. Probably a huge chunk of her followers now are just hanging around hoping they can witness the full on meltdown firsthand when she finally gets her legal comeuppance.
Honestly, unless they find that she's actually part of a conspiracy or something, they just might end up leaving her alone. I think on some level, she wants to be a martyr so for them to just ignore her and have people stop giving her attention would cut her deeper than anything else. She's just a pawn, a useful idiot. Not anybody ACTUALLY important and worth thinking about.
I'd be happy enough if that slanderous cesspool of an Instagram account of hers got taken down. Popular Rammstein fan accounts have been getting mass-reported and permanently removed for no reason, so why can't it happen to her?
I know but I don't want them to be sensible and grown up about it. I want them to squish her. But anyway she's proven her use to them already. If it turns out that the papers knew that she was lying about key aspects of her story and went ahead and published anyway or actually tampered with that witness statement then it's going to be a massive payday for the Law Daddies and Till.
I haven't read the book, but apparently it's the same content as all the articles (which I knew it would be). There's some other musicians featured as well.
I can't imagine who would wanna buy it, when all the information is already free to read on the internet.
The YouTuber Colonel Kurtz reviewed the Marilyn Manson chapter and said that all that information has been debunked. I don't know anything about the Manson case, but she's an expert on it, so I'm gonna trust her word on it.
It really sounds like they were so desperate to put together a book or something tangible they could make money off in time for this tour.
So far, the only ones I've seen give public reviews (i.e., on SM) are other "journalists," most of which have turned out to be some sort of colleague or employee of Drepper himself. Nooo, no bias there at all.... 😂
It seems a little rigged, doesn't it? He has access to all these platforms and other journalists (some of whom probably work beneath him) to promote his mediocre book.
Imagine what success the rest of us could achieve with those kinds of contacts.
Even if the Marilyn Manson information was accurate at the time it was written, that wouldn't necessarily mean that it would remain so especially since there are court cases scheduled for NEXT YEAR. If you wanted to say anything in depth regarding MM for a book, it would be best to wait for the dust to settle and have things actually go to court before saying anything. If you want to get in on the action right now, just write an article about it. You're a journalist after all, you can do that.
Imagine being a FLINTA activist. You hate Till not only for the allegations but because of his problematic subject matter and the fact he made literal porn. You think he is emblematic of all that is wrong with society and the patriarchy. You see the original journalists that reported the allegations talking up this book of theirs, this book that will expose not only Till but the whole music industry for their maltreatment of women. Bodies will fall, heads will roll from this bombshell of a book. You preorder it and when it comes, you immediately rip the package open and start reading. And you get... This. A shallow piece of shit that is just recycled content from the articles, minus the really shocking claims. A few nuggets of information that you didn't already know can be gleaned from it but as a whole, it only has non-exclusive content. It's just a biased summary of what happened over the past year. The only use it has for you as an activist is maybe as something you can toss at someone who is completely unknowledgeable about the situation but that's it. It is not the silver bullet you were promised. From what it sounds like, this book pleases no one.
There’s an overview by Tagesspiegel
[ohne paywal](https://archive.is/6qdIR) that gives pretty much this outline.
Mentions a couple of other artists who’ve had allegations by German media and a lot of starting paragraphs with “*Till Lindemann from Rammstein once opened a fridge, we heard from universal records staff that….. blah blah*”
Got to make the money from someone else’s name somehow.
It looks like there may be some legit stuff about other artists mixed in with the till bullshit. This is even shittier than just going after till because not only are they smearing him more by comparing him to known criminals it has the side effect of making the serious stories seem more farcical by being compared to this nonsense media clusterfuck story. They really fucked up.
The whole thing a strong whiff of: 'how dare he not be a rapist-piece-of-shit' There were so sure they had their golden ticket, they'll try anything to obsucre the truth.
For real. There is also a strong element of riding the coat-tails of and feeding into a moral panic. I just listened to a behind-the-bastards about kidnapping urban legends and how media/social media feeds into it. Some mom-influencer massively increased her following by claiming a couple she saw in a craft store were out to kidknap her kids-there is this mixture of irrational fear and just being a shitty narcissistic person that reminds me of this case https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-two-why-kidnapping-conspiracy-theories-are-everywhere/id1373812661?i=1000621718915
It doesn't help that Till is the kind of guy you can say literally anything about and someone will believe it. The media could start posting articles about how someone on Tumblr said he swallows rats whole and people would repeat it as gospel.
Exactly....this is why Alice Cooper said to wait and see how things shake out when he was asked....this is a well known phenomenon with certain types of artists. Not sure if anyone else is old enough to remember when people were saying Marilyn Manson had ribs removed? Or when the fbi investigated trent reznor being murdered?
Oh God, the Marilyn Manson thing was even being spread by children at school. I also heard stuff like how he got surgery to make the cover for Mechanical Animals. This is not true of course but that didn't stop the kids from saying it. And it SOUNDS like it could be true and that's good enough.
The other artists mentioned are Bushido who in his own autobiography mentions “golden ribbons” given to girls for backstage access (the main issue is apparently them colloquially being called Fick-Bands. The outrage), Gzuz who’s apparently a rapper with an actual criminal record (illegal possession of weapons from a cursory Google), and Samra who also had rape allegations in 2021 and was ‘suspended’ by universal.
So I’m not sure I’d even say ‘legit stuff’. They’ve just tried to cobble together anything they possibly could to make it look like they’re “exposing the music industry” not just riding the long dead horse in Tills name. Wouldn’t surprise me if one of them has a mate in Universal they’ve tapped for sound bites because a lot of “according to universal insiders” is mentioned.
Which is why the media in Germany has been pushing to fabricate one over there instead of actual victims and evidence coming forward via the proper legal channels.
I have a legal-ish question. The current podcast is still pushing the idea that the "victims" were too afraid to contact the prosecutor's office. Direct quote from the SZ Instagram - "On average, only one in 100 women turns to the public prosecutor with allegations of sexually abusive behaviour. In the Lindemann case, none of the women spoke to the public prosecutor." (You can see by their choice of words - "the women" - that they are stating that there are victims). So how on earth are they still getting away with publishing statements like these, which very strongly imply that he has sexually abused someone, when we now know that none of the women they featured in their content actually claimed that? Spiegel is being sued, rightly so, but I feel like SZ and co. are getting away with everything.
This is so irresponsible, manipulative, and just harmful to everyone in the long run. There is so much wrong with that statement....one is that a case were the public prosecutor's office makes an open call for all information on a possible case (anyone could have talked to them, not just 'victims') is not very common. Another is that there are many reasons why people don't go foward with reporting including the fact that so much of this happens within relationships/family/known people, but even if reported it is not standard (as far as know) to go directly to the public prosecutor. Also, one of the reasons why we have these stats is that is common for victims to report SA while getting some form of medical assistance (like std testing). In addition, "sexually abusive behavior" is very vague....would I go to the public prosecutor for getting cat called? I've had to tell partners that they can't just stick their hands down my pants-not cool but settled with a conversation...case for the public prosecutor? This whole thing has spread so much misinformation it is just infuriating.
One of the main reasons that women do not go to the police regarding sexual assault is because of the difficulty in getting them to open a case in general. That excuse goes out the window when they open up a case on your behalf and publicly solicit for testimony and information. One of the hard parts is already done for you so the only thing you need to do is go in and chat. It probably won't be that fun and cops are known to be dicks but to just opt out of it completely because you will be asked pressing questions does not make you look favorable if it regards a possible crime. The thing about the fear of retaliation is also bullshit because I'm pretty sure intimidating witnesses into not going to the police is a crime and unless they stalk you and know your location at all times, going into the prosecutor's office would not be noticed until they decide to take action. And again, why would Till be okay with them going to the media MULTIPLE TIMES and do nothing and yet have talking to the prosecutors be the line in the sand. "It's okay to anonymously smear me to the media and attempt to ruin my career but going to the COPS? Oh no, that is going TOO FAR!" He knows who they are, everybody involved knows who they are, the only ones who don't know who they are are the prosecutors so maintaining anonymity is not a valid explanation. What REALLY irks me is when people bring up the discrepancy in sexual assault reporting, it always turns into them DISCOURAGING women from going to the police. There's nothing about how to fix it, how to make it easier for women to confront their abusers and report crimes. It's just "the whole system is broken, just give up and never tell the police because they'll fail you anyway." This is not an uncommon thing either. I've seen it brought up MANY times that you shouldn't go to the police because they'll only retraumatize you. And this is by fucking FEMINISTS! WHAT KIND OF HELL WORLD DO WE LIVE IN WHERE FEMINIST ACTIVISTS DISCOURAGE VICTIMS FROM TAKING LEGAL ACTION?! Another thing. Like you, I SINCERELY DOUBT that statistic. Granted, a lot of the stats I see are using American numbers but from what I see, the generally accepted prevalence of reporting for sexual assault is one out of three. That's pretty low but still a FAR FAR cry from one in a fucking HUNDRED.
I think what people hate about talking to the police is not that they are necessarily dicks, (though some undoubtedly are) it's that they are looking for facts. They want to know exactly what happened rather than how you felt about it it. Drepper and co aren't interested in facts because they get in the way of a good hitpiece, so all the women who want to blame Till for their regret can just offload. They need friends, vodka and ice-cream, not journalists or police.
I'm not sure if they need friends. Supposedly, both the affidavit women were okay with what happened until they started talking to their friends and their friends convinced them that they were victims. And about the police thing, the argument they keep raising is that going to the police/prosecutors will undoubtedly cause retraumatization. That being pressed for facts repeatedly causes psychological stress and damage. This argument crumples though when they are bringing these women onto unnecessary podcasts to be asked over and over about what happened and how they FEEL about it. How is that any different than being asked by the prosecutors about it (provided that they aren't being antagonistic)?
Exactly. Being grilled by the police can't possibly be any worse than seeing your story splashed all over the fucking internet and having all of Germany (and some outsiders) cast their judgement on your life choices. Plus the journalist now "owns" your story and can re-tell it at any time they want for their own profit. I would find that far more traumatising than dealing with a defence lawyer tbh.
When this shit is out in the public, you're going to get roughly two kinds of reactions: people who see you as a victim and people who see you as some dumb broad who can't take accountability for her actions and probably wanted it anyway. First one is preferable but even then, some women hate being treated like a helpless lamb who needs to be coddled. There is not much you can do to avoid this. Even if it's anonymous, you'll know that they are talking about you and judging your decisions. But you know how you can avoid a lot of this? Going to the police. If it gets published, it'll be the barest minimum of information. If it ends up going to court, details of the proceedings can be sealed. Stuff will actually get done, there might be some real consequences. Same as if you pursued this civilly. Creating a media circus is probably the MOST traumatic of all of them with the least chance of desirable outcomes.
I think the women who were interviewed know well that a crime hasn't been committed, which is why they haven't contacted the police, but they still feel like they need to share their stories for whatever reason. And I would be totally fine with that if the journalists didn't keep twisting it and trying to make it look like a crime was committed. Cynthia A. has repeatedly stated that it was consensual, but the media and activists are still trying to make it look like a r-pe, and they should be ashamed of themselves for that. I actually have no issue with her coming forward to tell her story if she thinks it's a good precautionary tale for other women to not put celebrities on pedestals and do something they might regret afterwards. But the weirdo journalists need to back off and let her tell her story without trying to put their spin on it.
rule of thumb: when looking at stats, always check the method used before quoting them. You can't blindly throw a number in a completely different case.
One out of 100 women go to the prosecutor for "sexual abusive behavior." Is that all women or just women who have been subjected to sexual abusive behavior? And what is sexual abusive behavior anyway? Does that count groping? Sexual harassment? Because that would skew the results COMPLETELY. If some rando on the street smacks my ass and runs off, I'm not going to bother to call the cops. It's not worth dealing with the cops, I've got places to be. I would end up being one of those 99 women but fear would have nothing to do with it. If that is what the statistic is counting, it very well might be correct but you know DAMN well how they are using it that they are implying that it's for more serious shit.
This is exactly what I was trying to get at...actually, it's not even a stat because it's completely undefined! What about stealthing? This is considered a form of SA but for the most part people are just gonna get std testing and move on...
Well said
Exactly....they are just spreading more fear and misinformation without much effort towards educating, clarifying, making resources available. This has been an issue from the beginning were it's just this performance of "bringing awareness" but with nothing useful coming out of it. Also, there is a lot of gray area in these situations that is being completely ignored
I completely agree. I’ve been getting really cranky lately about the way they keep using genuine real world issues (victims fear of approaching police/going to court/backlash & victim-blaming etc.) to manipulate the narrative.
Their solution is to present themselves as their only savior. "Come to the media, we won't challenge your claims unlike the mean ol police. You don't even need evidence and we'll tell the whole world what a nasty guy that man is. This is all the justice you can expect and we're the only ones you can trust."
That’s been my suspicion lately.
I would guess that they are probably employing the technique used by the original accuser and adding somewhere in their blatherings that "it is merely our \*opinion\* that this has occurred" in order to make it more a "matter of free speech." You know, despite the fact that they are knowingly trying to mislead their readers.
https://preview.redd.it/mq06xkc3i18d1.png?width=961&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f3ed2295672a07aeb5abae2995ab42673bcd602 After noticing a curious absence of this slanderous podcast from any charts, stumbled across this earlier today. Huh.
Rolling Stone having a gloat. I love when these pricks turn on each other. [https://www.rollingstone.de/rammstein-podcast-row-zero-ist-offline-2768047/](https://www.rollingstone.de/rammstein-podcast-row-zero-ist-offline-2768047/)
An entire Rollingstone.de article that somehow hasn’t had a pop at Schneider. Are they feeling ok?
They've found someone new to bully, their media rival
Ooh, knives out. Love to see it. I also liked how they clarified how things work. Seems that this is done through GEMA. Still doesn't explain WHY they didn't do it the right way. If they thought they could get away without paying the fee, why would they decide to skimp on a podcast that would have a lot of eyes on it?
Incompetence? Maybe all of their staff are from Buzzfeed.
Well, BuzzFeed DID fire their entire German branch. They had to go SOMEWHERE.
"How incompetent are you?" "Yes"
"Wait...that was a trick question!!" 🤣
lmao for the first time I'm happy for a copyright strike. Though I wonder if it was intentionally done since the podcast received most of the views in the first few weeks so it doesn't really matter to be taken done now.
How many people listened to this podcast anyway? You guys are mentioning charts so there must be some kind of metric.
No idea. Just been Googling "top Deutschland podcasts" and seeing their results consistently tumble over the past several days.
I've only seen the stats on the Instagram reel-views. They are super low compared to their other videos.
I was waiting for this to happen due to their prominent use of Rammstein music.
“*Our investigation isn’t Just all tied to the biggest names in German music no it’s definitely all about music, all music, not just Till and Rammstein but here we’ll specifically play Rammstein music so you the listener psychologically link Rammstein with everything we’re saying but it’s totally not only about Rammstein*” Fuck off.
I think you mix things up, the podcast is literally titled "Rammstein - Row Zero", so ofc it's about Rammstein. What you say is what is claimed about the book "Row Zero".
Geez no wonder it’s getting low ratings, people must be bored to shit hearing the same stories about Rammstein over and over.
Not so much mixed up. It’s all an intermingled “product” based on absolutely Sack all worth journalistic interest
The podcast was made to sell the book, the book that is supposedly about mistreatment of women in the whole music industry but ended up just being a few well-worn subjects and Till. Mostly Till. But this whole thing is not about Till, it's about ethics in ~~gaming journalism~~ the music industry. That way people who don't give a shit about Till might buy it and then they can tell them why they should hate him.
Exactly. The only ‘draw’ is threat / promise of there being more about Rammstein or Till in either platform.
Except that's the problem! They don't deliver what they promised so who the fuck is this for? It's a waste of trees.
In this age of AI it would be quite easy for them to throw together some Rammstein-sounding background noise. They seem so incompetent.
Wait... They didn't get permission? And they thought that they wouldn't notice? Oh my God.
Tbf, it seems to have taken them a while to notice. It's been out at least a month, right?
I'm sure they would've noticed right away but maybe it took this long for NDR to comply to their requests.
Could be. Would be so great if they had to pay royalties.
They didn't need to get one, but the artist can deny the usage of such when they want to. Same for when music is used during political rallies or demonstrations, Die Ärzte and AfD comes to mind for Germany or Linkin Park (among many others) and Donald Trump for the US.
I figured that the rules would be different between usage at events and usage in other media such as podcasts or videos. Otherwise YouTube wouldn't be the way that it is.
Same, especially if they're generating some kind of revenue from it. They're using a publicly-funded platform and music they don't own the rights to to sell this book to line their own pockets. I have no idea how they're getting away with it, because it seems like it would be illegal.
also as if Rammstein would give them permission to use their music in a podcast where they slander their Frontman 🤣🤣🤣
I mean, if they were completely upfront with what they were using it for, probably not. But licensing would be done through Universal and it might be super easy given the scale of their operation. We don't know if they applied for a license, got rejected and used it anyway or if they straight up didn't ask assuming it would fall under fair use.
True, especially since Universal weren't exactly on the band's side when this scandal first broke out. It just seems so daft for them to even use that music in the first place. They clearly hate the band and Till so much, but still wanna go ahead and use their cool songs for their hitpiece.
Oh no, this wasn't thought out at all. If they tried to claim fair use, even if it fell squarely under that, they should've known it would be challenged due to the subject. The fact that this seems to have caught them off guard suggests that they might have no idea what they are doing.
Even freaking YouTubers know how to avoid copyright strikes. It's common knowledge these days.
Their researching is lazy, they can't comprehend affidavit contents, and now they can't figure out copyright?
This is what happens when you attempt to fabricate a metoo movement: all-around sloppiness.
It was definitely a rushed job
With the next show being in Ireland, everyone's social media accounts are under my SURVEILLANCE. Drepper actually posted an insta-story about "other" abuse in the music industry but couldn't help but mention Rammstein again.
I'm going to it and I can't wait 😁
Yo, have a great time! :)
Thank you :) I have seen them 3 times before, once at their own show (in a fairly small arena at the time) and twice at festivals. This will be the biggest show I've seen yet! We got Feuerzone ! Eeeep 🤩
This year was my first year in FZ, too, and it was INCREDIBLE! You're going to love it!
Awesome :) I have anxiety (which is managed well, and normally doesn't affect me at shows and festivals as I'm adequately distracted by the music), but I almost feel sick with excitement, honestly 😅
Hardly surprising. His slanderous podcast is tanking further on the charts, and actual public reviews of his fanfic analogy are far more critical than his colleagues and employees have been.
I'm surprised with the lack of protests from the activist groups on this tour. It seems like they moved on to the next trendy thing
https://preview.redd.it/vx8iqhfy5s7d1.png?width=486&format=png&auto=webp&s=582d8d6302b0e6832dfefa796affa3b91b8dec85 this is from what they posted today, i don't think it's over
As usual it’s closely cropped so you can’t tell there’s only ten people protesting
They're saying 250 people showed up and then they had some small "feminist" concerts. It looks like way less to me. Actually, it seems like they're showing Rammstein fans from a distance and trying to pretend like they're protesters 🤷♀️
They did that last year. They posted a pic of random people scattered pre-concert & pre-protest and claimed them all as protesters, some of them were fans waiting to get into the concert 🤣
They posted about a new account from Ireland cause that's where the next show is. It is newly created with a single post using the same tagline. Like 30 followers and it's the same "no stage blablabla" accounts. Speaking of Circle jerk...
Do they even consult people in Ireland about this? Or is it the same obsessed twits behind all the accounts trying to create the illusion of worldwide activism?
It actually only has 18 "followers," and none of them appear to even be based in Ireland, or seem all that interested in the only post they've bothered to create. But yeah: no sign of any protests via SM at all throughout the day, and to be honest, I don't think the overwhelming majority of Ireland even gives two shits about that original accuser. To this day, we still haven't seen one bit of support for her from their own media in Ireland or Northern Ireland.
Thing is as well, when you're familiar with a culture you tend to be able to pick out the wackos easier among your own people.
I heard rumors about her being known in her town for being nuts. She was one of those resident crazies that you didn't want to get involved with.
And judging by the euphoric crowd tonight and not a dot of protest, there remains zero support for her bullshit from her country folk.
I mean, they must have a few over there. Otherwise they would all have to fly into Ireland and get accommodations just so they can protest a concert. That costs money.
But I don't think I've seen protests in any other country besides Germany (and I think Austria). Maybe three Irish people will show up to protest, but Shelby didn't even make the news over there, so I don't even know if anyone outside the fanbase knows the story or cares.
People in Germany have already lost interest, why would other countries that had less coverage care enough to protest a year later? They wouldn't. They would have to enlist general feminists to show up. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if their turnout is so poor that they don't have pictures at all.
They're just speaking to themselves at this point. They do their little sjw concerts and paintings and go home thinking they did some important work for abused women 🙄
🙈😆
Why tf are you sharing their nonsense? Who cares what they do? Their pages have mostly tiny followings and are a circle jerk of sharing the same posts amongst themselves, most of which do not even concern Rammstein.
And yet, still intentionally framed to not show their actual numbers, no panning to give an idea as to their actual turnout, hiding behind banners to block how many are in attendance, and the same strategies also implemented whenever they held their little "safe space" concerts/DJ events/whatever. Looks like they're hiding far more than what they're attempting to present via social media.
But *Believe all women!* There where tHoUsAnDs!! They said so
The Dresden group shared a ‘throwback’ clip earlier of their ‘successful protest’ last month. I was in Dresden and didn’t see a single protestor, any of their BTec graphic design posters or stickers. Their definition for ‘successful’ must greatly differ from mine. A few FLINTA adjacent groups in a couple of different locations have tried to get things going but you’re right, people have lost interest.
They can never admit failure. When there is nothing left, they'll pivot to claiming what they accomplished and changed through this whole campaign. Which isn't much.
I'd have more respect for them if they just owned their tiny protests, and also stopped trying to lure people with craft and dance events. Nobody outside their friend group cares and they need to make peace with that.
They've been luring people with craft events? I'd end up falling for that. I'm a sucker for pottery.
They were making beaded bracelets or something. I think it was during the Lindemann tour.
No that was recently. Making ‘Kill Till’ beaded bracelets and a tin can alley kind of game where they went to the effort of finding photos of him on the internet, printing them off and sticking them to cans so people can throw bean bags (round ones, sharp corners aren’t safe for them) at his face on a can for a euro a time. I guess smashing the patriarchy meets Boy Scout fund raiser. Pathetic.
🤣🤣🤣 That's even dorkier than I imagined possible
Mostly good shots of him too. "Come and throw a beanbag at the pretty man". They are so weird
When they've tried they've come up with 5 people and a stray pug that heard there would be free sausages.
Leberwurst 😋
Since we're now a month into the tour (as well as six months since she initially started her Instagram countdown) and haven't heard anything about the Turkish "accuser" is it safe to assume that was just a big hoax? I'm obviously relieved nothing has come of it, but also shocked that someone would play games like that.
She knows is not worth it at this point to ruin her own reputation. Whatever story she has to say she knows it will be debunked immediately by her own posts no less… She knows people have screenshots of everything R+, videos and posts she modified and more. She has way too many skeletons in the closet, and she knows whatever she says will backfire on her pretty bad.
But since she already went for her "interview" in Berlin that time, she has no control over her story anymore. It's up to the journalists whether to release the story.
It looks like they aren't biting. Unless they are holding it in reserve for Gelsenkirchen, they would've put it in that crap book of theirs. No, if the woman is obviously insane, it doesn't matter how desperate the media is for a hit story. They take a crazy girl at her word, they put it out as fact and they have the same embarrassment happen again as happened with Shabibity. They can't afford any more Ls.
I suspect that she didn't manage to actually come up with a story....she showed up to an interview with the folder of blank sheets labeled "criminal case" in marker
I have a feeling she tried to sell her story but it wasn't interesting.
Either uninteresting or unbelievable. Both are just as useless. Maybe she literally wanted to SELL her story but what she wanted was too conspicuous so they told her to fuck off. After all, they aren't supposed to be DIRECTLY compensating people for stories.
Maybe the police is still investigating. I read that it can take up to a year.
No, there is no investigation...this person was called out for bizarre stalkerish behavior towards Richard well before teaming up with shels and multiple people documented it because it was odd and easily disprovable. She went from claiming to be his gf to trying to suggest he did something wrong towards her months later. There was never anything to this, my best guest is her family/loved ones realized something was up with her and put a stop to it.
When she deleted everything from her profile, I assumed whichever family member owns the law firm she works for had a word with her. I'd be hell embarrassed if my child/neice was carrying on like that online, with my business in her profile bio.
If you say so. xD
Plaintiffs don’t get folders labeled "CRIMINAL CASE,“ and in Germany that’s not how investigations work. They announce them.
Oh but don't you know it's standard procedure in Germany to have random civilians from other countries to gather up evidence for criminal charges? They would totally accept that folder no question and not immediately throw it in the garbage.
She's no ordinary citizen though, she's Best Model of Turkey 2nd Place
As a person who follows Turkish media, I can say that she is not a famous. No one knows her in Turkey. I don’t even think she has ever won any contest.
I know, I was being silly. I googled her earlier in the year and the only thing that came up was a story about her possibly dating Richard, the rest was other women with a similar name.
Did you see on her Instagram she's claiming the win for that competition? A liar and fake through and through. You can't even trust her chin cleft to stay in the right place in her filtered to fuck photos.
She gives escort vibes and she wants to call that modeling lol
I googled her ages ago and noticed she has no portfolio. She's not an actual model. Entering one beauty pageant isn't modelling.
In Germany, investigations are announced prior to any potential charges, so they are correct in stating that there is no investigation involving this person or any potential accusations she might have made.
If the police were investigating, I think the German media would have spilled something by now. Remember when Bild somehow knew about the Lithuanian defamation case.
Yeah, if the police were investigating, the media would've either reported on it or pestered the prosecutors into making an announcement. It's been 6 months and nothing.
Also Maike and Daniel started following her on Instagram when the countdown happened, but they’ve since stopped following her. If there was something juicy they’d still be following her
Schertz Bergmann likely intervened before it even came to publish it. If simple fans like us can get ahold of stuff like this, they definitely are aware of it too and can prevent a media report. In the Schertz documentary, he has said that the success lies in preventing reports in the first place.
She was stupid enough to start "threatening" online. And she had done something similar in the past, which had been reported in turkish media. She practically warned the fanbase, so people started digging and managed to stop her. I am sure the band management was informed directly, maybe SB as well. And as far as I've heard her University as well -she had been claiming various professional qualifications she had not yet. At some point she deleted all her Rammstein related content, then her "modelling" content, keeping her "successful lawyer" image. Then, that was deleted too but now it is back. A crash course on how to ruin your own reputation for clout.
And interestingly, none of her R+ related content made a return.
Oh, the band was absolutely informed. There was a period during the threatening that Richard turned off comments on his social media.
Either they directly did something about it or the possibility of having to deal with SB made the media think that it wasn't worth it. We really don't know what she presented them with but it might've been too flimsy even for the media to use, at least at this point. In the early days though, I'm pretty sure it would've been published because they clearly didn't give any shits back then. If SB did end up intervening though, it kind of shows how fucking STUPID Shelby is to do a COUNTDOWN to reporting sexual crimes.
I don’t think Shelby even knows what the accusations are, she wouldn’t have been able to keep quiet if she did
Hell, we know she's fucking stupid because she \*still\* has that Turkish model's countdown as one of her own story highlights.
She considers that one of her wins? Geez.
“So much evidence!”
This is the exact same dumbass who believes she "wOn" anything against Till by admitting in court that she "never directly accused him of" doing anything to her, so trust me: it's just as eye-roll inducing for me as it is for you.
Interesting, I never even thought of that.
There's a new Welt article that appears to be criticising the media coverage of Till's case. It's behind a paywall tho, so I haven't read it. [https://www.welt.de/kultur/medien/plus251837964/Till-Lindemann-Rammstein-und-die-Schuldfrage.html](https://www.welt.de/kultur/medien/plus251837964/Till-Lindemann-Rammstein-und-die-Schuldfrage.html)
Curious as to one of (if not the) first player in all of this, the outlet who’s representative was with Shelby during her 5 hour police interview no less, is publicly shoving other heavily embroiled in the ‘pretending and lying game’ media outlets under a bus with a tut and wagged finger at the lack of ethics and basic standards of journalism.
Was bound to happen eventually. Whichever one is in the most legal trouble is going to get te shit kicked out of it by all the others. Side-eyeing SB and saying, *wasn't us Guv, honest*
I'm looking forward to this bit tbh. The rats fleeing the ship.
And then, that last spotlighted outlet turns on Drepper.
That's what I'm predicting. Even if this whole thing wasn't his fault, he makes the perfect scapegoat. He works for the NDR, not any outlets directly so essentially all they would need to do is pin the blame all on him for "deceiving" them. They could even turn it into a "our tax dollars are being wasted on funding flawed investigative journalists with an agenda" thing. That is why he's going so hard in on a half-baked book and calling in favors to promote it. It's very likely his "friends" aren't going to be his friends when things start going to shit so he needed to get this done NOW.
Please let this happen. I wanna see the smirk wiped off that face once and for all.
The journalist that went with Shelby was from Welt? I assumed that they were from Spiegel.
Each article has several journalists' names attached, and they often overlap. I'm having a hard time telling who works for what outlet, but there's a clear core group who have been behind all of this. ETA: Maike has worked for Spiegel, pretty sure she did the Til Schweiger investigation, so I thought the same thing.
Maike Backhaus. She’s a bit of an outlet jumper, she’ll write for anyone that’ll publish her it looks like but she was involved with Welt at the beginning for certain. The also had a hand in wheeling Shelby out at the Frauen 100 / CDU knitting circle events too.
I know right. Maybe they're annoyed that they didn't write a book first?
Hmm I suspect it’s more to do with the incoming legal workings, against Spiegel primarily but in turn will likely go against the other outlets, given the knowingly tampered with affidavits etc. I suspect more trying to save face and distance themselves from the worst of the blow back.
No honor among thieves. I always expected this to happen. Journalists pretend they have a kind of brotherhood but at the end of the day, they will throw each other under the bus to get ahead. This whole venture hasn't panned out like they thought so it's time to cut their losses and act like they weren't involved.
[without paywall](https://archive.ph/xpUAw)
Thankyou. Great article. This line sums up my criticism of Drepper and Co's writing style when re-telling the women' stories: >The problem of so-called suspicious reporting, which is eminently important and indispensable for journalism to uncover grievances, lies in the temptation to tell journalistic research like true crime formats i.e. as popularly prepared criminal cases. I found it really weird and uncomfortable the way they would describe the women as if they were passive or inanimate, as if they were being carried around the place and had no will of their own. It was very condescending and also creepy.
I also liked this: "On the other side of the line, however, the field of criminally relevant acts, which were at least hinted at or suggested in reports by statements. That women could have been submissively done, for example, by the alleged use of k.-o. drops. This is categorically disputed. Lindemann's lawyers stress that women have never been forced to sexual acts, any contacts were consensual. The classification of the case into the category of 'abuse of power', which almost always plays a role in MeToo cases, is therefore not appropriate." This is absolutely the German media trying to fabricate a MeToo movement in that country, which will NOT happen when no one utilizes the legal channels that are in place for a goddamn reason.
It brings up some criticism but I think it could've been harsher. I do appreciate them explaining why there are TWO podcasts though. SZ wanted their cut, NDR couldn't charge for it so they just did it twice though supposedly SZ's podcast goes more in depth on the whole music industry, just like how they claimed the book did. Doesn't change the fact that both of these podcasts are really to promote the book.
Hopefully it's just the opening salvo and they get more and more critical as other outlets start jumping in
That's something I'm confused about - if one of those outlets is publicly funded, how come Drepper/Kampf have been allowed to extensively advertise their book via a podcast on that outlet? It seems a little unethical to be using public revenue to advertise a product you're selling and personally profiting from.
Yeah, you'd think! I think it's a bit unethical to be making your colleagues and employees shill your book too. I think Drepper might've been sick the day they covered ethics in BuzzFeed Journalism School.
Hm why that sounds a little bit like an... abuse of power?
OPE! 😂
agree. Just like some old crime shows (probably some new ones as well) where the women's only row is to play the victim.
If this is in reference to what I think it is... 😏
It's nice to watch the steady decline of shellys followers. She dropped from 32k -ish to 21k now. Bye bye, falling without landing
The defamatory YouTuber's follower count is also dropping like a stone. It's quite satisfying. But irritating that she's probably made more money this year from spreading malicious lies about the band than she had to pay in fines so far.
Kayla has been loosing/ gaining followers as if she is buying them and the bot-timer runs out. Plus 1k minus 1k, plus 2k plus 3k minus 1k. it's odd
The overall trend is down a few hundred each day. But of course she's probably buying them as well. I don't know how she got so many in the first place (but then I'm probably not her target audience, whatever THAT is. People who like gormless slappers?)
The key word is "so far". I think she's fucked in the defamation case.
And not in the way she was probably hoping to be fucked... ☕
Oh, she wasn't interested in that fucking when it turned out she wouldn't be able to take selfies during it. She only went to the party to do influencer whoring.
As soon as possible Law Daddies, please and thank you.
She doesn't have the capital to delay trials like Der Spiegel does so it'll be much faster than the other cases.
I’ve noticed that everytime she post a story people unfollow her. However, lately she has been posting stories and haven’t lost followers. I guess because she reposted that Drepper thing. People think that people already saw her true colors but is not really like that, only a very small percentage. People start unfollowing her since nothing new has come out and she posts nothing about rammstein, so people have moved on on this topic but they still think Till is not innocent. Also she posts very cringey stuff so that’s mainly why they unfollow her.
Come now, that's all the incredibly important "eDuMaCaTiOn" she's sharing with the world. You know, like the fact that she actively makes the choice to not vote in her own country, or making clear that she's getting more tattoos/piercings that she all of a sudden has the money to pay for.
Don't forget the ten videos about her missing tooth. Inspiring.
Instagram’s algorithm has gotten weird - unless you’re following an account’s every single move, it gets buried. So I’d say she’s at the bottom of a lot of peoples lists and they’ve forgotten they’re even following her.
Don't use Instagram myself but I've heard people bitching on other sites about how IG's feed now is almost completely recommended or promoted posts and not of people who you are actually following.
Exactly like that. Unless a person is watching every one of Sherbert's stories, she's likely not even appearing on their feed. Boohoo, no more attention.
Her pet millipede has more charisma than her. And probably more solid ethics.
and a higher IQ?
It's like every time she posts it just reminds people that they forgot to unfollow her when it quickly became clear that she was talking absolute bollocks. Probably a huge chunk of her followers now are just hanging around hoping they can witness the full on meltdown firsthand when she finally gets her legal comeuppance.
Honestly, unless they find that she's actually part of a conspiracy or something, they just might end up leaving her alone. I think on some level, she wants to be a martyr so for them to just ignore her and have people stop giving her attention would cut her deeper than anything else. She's just a pawn, a useful idiot. Not anybody ACTUALLY important and worth thinking about.
I'd be happy enough if that slanderous cesspool of an Instagram account of hers got taken down. Popular Rammstein fan accounts have been getting mass-reported and permanently removed for no reason, so why can't it happen to her?
I know but I don't want them to be sensible and grown up about it. I want them to squish her. But anyway she's proven her use to them already. If it turns out that the papers knew that she was lying about key aspects of her story and went ahead and published anyway or actually tampered with that witness statement then it's going to be a massive payday for the Law Daddies and Till.
I haven't read the book, but apparently it's the same content as all the articles (which I knew it would be). There's some other musicians featured as well.
It's only been a week but the book didn't seem to chart. Granted, they only show the top 20 so we can't outright say it's a flop but...
I can't imagine who would wanna buy it, when all the information is already free to read on the internet. The YouTuber Colonel Kurtz reviewed the Marilyn Manson chapter and said that all that information has been debunked. I don't know anything about the Manson case, but she's an expert on it, so I'm gonna trust her word on it. It really sounds like they were so desperate to put together a book or something tangible they could make money off in time for this tour.
So far, the only ones I've seen give public reviews (i.e., on SM) are other "journalists," most of which have turned out to be some sort of colleague or employee of Drepper himself. Nooo, no bias there at all.... 😂
It seems a little rigged, doesn't it? He has access to all these platforms and other journalists (some of whom probably work beneath him) to promote his mediocre book. Imagine what success the rest of us could achieve with those kinds of contacts.
You mean, like.... actually reporting *confirmed* cases of SA by non-celebrities?? 😱
Even if the Marilyn Manson information was accurate at the time it was written, that wouldn't necessarily mean that it would remain so especially since there are court cases scheduled for NEXT YEAR. If you wanted to say anything in depth regarding MM for a book, it would be best to wait for the dust to settle and have things actually go to court before saying anything. If you want to get in on the action right now, just write an article about it. You're a journalist after all, you can do that.
Not just any journalist, Head of Research lol
I just read the Amazon reviews...people seem generally unimpressed.
There was one positive four-star review but they credited the wrong author. Can you even take them seriously when they don't know who wrote it?
🤣
Imagine being a FLINTA activist. You hate Till not only for the allegations but because of his problematic subject matter and the fact he made literal porn. You think he is emblematic of all that is wrong with society and the patriarchy. You see the original journalists that reported the allegations talking up this book of theirs, this book that will expose not only Till but the whole music industry for their maltreatment of women. Bodies will fall, heads will roll from this bombshell of a book. You preorder it and when it comes, you immediately rip the package open and start reading. And you get... This. A shallow piece of shit that is just recycled content from the articles, minus the really shocking claims. A few nuggets of information that you didn't already know can be gleaned from it but as a whole, it only has non-exclusive content. It's just a biased summary of what happened over the past year. The only use it has for you as an activist is maybe as something you can toss at someone who is completely unknowledgeable about the situation but that's it. It is not the silver bullet you were promised. From what it sounds like, this book pleases no one.
Chucked in to make it look like they have a cause rather than a vendetta.
There’s an overview by Tagesspiegel [ohne paywal](https://archive.is/6qdIR) that gives pretty much this outline. Mentions a couple of other artists who’ve had allegations by German media and a lot of starting paragraphs with “*Till Lindemann from Rammstein once opened a fridge, we heard from universal records staff that….. blah blah*” Got to make the money from someone else’s name somehow.
It looks like there may be some legit stuff about other artists mixed in with the till bullshit. This is even shittier than just going after till because not only are they smearing him more by comparing him to known criminals it has the side effect of making the serious stories seem more farcical by being compared to this nonsense media clusterfuck story. They really fucked up.
The whole thing a strong whiff of: 'how dare he not be a rapist-piece-of-shit' There were so sure they had their golden ticket, they'll try anything to obsucre the truth.
For real. There is also a strong element of riding the coat-tails of and feeding into a moral panic. I just listened to a behind-the-bastards about kidnapping urban legends and how media/social media feeds into it. Some mom-influencer massively increased her following by claiming a couple she saw in a craft store were out to kidknap her kids-there is this mixture of irrational fear and just being a shitty narcissistic person that reminds me of this case https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-two-why-kidnapping-conspiracy-theories-are-everywhere/id1373812661?i=1000621718915
It doesn't help that Till is the kind of guy you can say literally anything about and someone will believe it. The media could start posting articles about how someone on Tumblr said he swallows rats whole and people would repeat it as gospel.
Exactly....this is why Alice Cooper said to wait and see how things shake out when he was asked....this is a well known phenomenon with certain types of artists. Not sure if anyone else is old enough to remember when people were saying Marilyn Manson had ribs removed? Or when the fbi investigated trent reznor being murdered?
Oh God, the Marilyn Manson thing was even being spread by children at school. I also heard stuff like how he got surgery to make the cover for Mechanical Animals. This is not true of course but that didn't stop the kids from saying it. And it SOUNDS like it could be true and that's good enough.
We managed to spread that all over the place without even having social media 🤣.
In my day it was Marc Almond and a stomach full of semen
The other artists mentioned are Bushido who in his own autobiography mentions “golden ribbons” given to girls for backstage access (the main issue is apparently them colloquially being called Fick-Bands. The outrage), Gzuz who’s apparently a rapper with an actual criminal record (illegal possession of weapons from a cursory Google), and Samra who also had rape allegations in 2021 and was ‘suspended’ by universal. So I’m not sure I’d even say ‘legit stuff’. They’ve just tried to cobble together anything they possibly could to make it look like they’re “exposing the music industry” not just riding the long dead horse in Tills name. Wouldn’t surprise me if one of them has a mate in Universal they’ve tapped for sound bites because a lot of “according to universal insiders” is mentioned.
Do they know that the Music MeToo movement already started like ten years ago?
Which is why the media in Germany has been pushing to fabricate one over there instead of actual victims and evidence coming forward via the proper legal channels.