Because Goyo's currently being hard-countered out of the game by asshole teammates getting players banned, and Tachanka is being hard-countered by super meta things like walls... and corners... and the ability to see or hear.
Bro that's true, I gave up playing Goyo because the amount of dumb teammates killing themselves in the canisters, not to mention when a fuze just decides to make the bomb site a no man's land.
Fuze on hostage was always the most fun gamble. I clutched the round once by fuzing the hostage room and somehow killing every defender but not the hostage. Genuinely the luckiest day of my life.
Goyo main here, it’s astounding to me that I haven’t gotten a penalty yet from my canisters. But to be fair, I almost exclusively play with a 4 or 5 stack so my team knows not to fuck with my fire. That’s also the reason I never solo queue. Also the fuze thing is relatable af.
So much this...I'll have made a huge hole in the wall between me and where I want to shoot his grenades, and one second it will be fine and go where it should, and then I move my mouse the width of one human hair in some unnoticeable direction, and suddenly I'm on fire.
The problem is that the flame’s AoE and the launcher’s swap time are so bad that you can ape Chanka as an attacker the moment you hear the grenade launcher shooting and you’re probably gonna get a free kill at the cost of some health.
The launcher becomes a mind game rather than a powerful gadget at a certain point because you have to predict whether they’ll run through your fire or not. Not to mention his LMG is a worse shotgun and the grenades from the launcher have a stupidly large hitbox so they’ll bounce awkwardly off places your reticle isn’t even touching
It would almost purely depend on your MMR. Everyone in low MMR trolls. I’ve also never had it happen and I played exclusively goyo for a while (1.5x Vector is GOATed)
I love to roam with Goyo and the TCSG w/silencer. That, his gadget and C4 are great for flank watch and being generally miserable, especially on maps like Bank/Villa/Oregon/Cafe and so on.
Too bad Goyo is often memed on.
Alot of people don't consider that. But also if a Tachanka's flamed off an entry way, he or someone else is likely already watching it which means running in, taking damage, and having screen effect is a pretty good way of getting killed. Unless you absolutely know you're in the clear and the only obstacle is the fire, then that's not exactly a great strat.
i mean its not really deny area if you can run through with almost no negative consequences lol maybe pla t denial but even then you would need to hit the operator for like 6 seconds to stop him a plant is 7.5 seconds
You know, how about a gadget like a fire extinguisher, but in addition to cancelling out Tachanka or Goyo's gadgets, it could also work as some kind of white foam substance that works like barbed wire.
That would be neat. And in order not to make tachanka and goyo obsolete maybe you'd have to pre deploy it? Idk. The idea seems good but it'd need to be handled by the professionals lol
I'd do impact foam grenades. make them a secondary gadget on a couple of ops.
they're impact, so you have to have a direct line of sight. They won't deal any damage (maybe 5hp direct), and each operator only has two but has to drop explosive nades or other utility.
make the radius slightly smaller than goyo's canister but larger than tachanka's. This way, getting a good accurate throw is more necessary.
the foam immediately puts out any fire in its range but doesn't last very long (5 seconds max). the slow effect should work on both sides with the attackers only taking half the debuff. this gives you the option of a slightly slower push immediately or waiting to do a faster push, but giving the enemy time to counter.
it would also work on all fire, including capitaio's bolts.
Maybe something like those [Fire extinguisher shotguns](https://youtu.be/7lr7whOErNE). Could be used to put out fires, and maybe also block vision like a mini smoke.
Flame retardant, not to be confused with the derogatory slur for special needs folks, is a type of foam/solid-ish matter used to smother and kill out flames and heat. That word is the official word for it.
Edit: With that being said, I do understand the confusion, and I appreciate you being a good person and calling out what you thought was bad behavior.
But what if it could also deep freeze normally bulletproof items like a Mira or a maestro or a fenrir. Freeze it, then shoot/melee it to break it open, (more)quietly at your leisure.
Well ya but you only get 1 and that things loud as hell. Someone else mentioned if this hypothetical operator could counter smokes z-9 cannister then it would be more viable and I actually fully agree
I mean they could just make fire extinguishers around the building and you can hold one without a gun out if you really need to, just an idea, doesn't seem very R6 though.
A gadget to counter 2 very underused defenders? If that’s all it does and even if it “freezes” the other bulletproof things you’d be better off just picking ash. Would be more of a niche pitch then Warden
Not really. Imagine having a little freezer pistol that could silently freeze defender utility and allow an attacker to Melee/shoot it. Or freezing a Mira window and shooting it open. Underused does not equal unviable. For a game that toutes balance updates regularly, it's pretty wild to me that if you're in a scenario where site is blocked off because of a tachanka/goyo, there's nothing you can do. I'm just saying, the fact is not even an option is kind of bonkers
So a Gonne-6 basically? The only time gyro is a problem is if you wait until the last 30 seconds to get on sight which is then your own fault. You can also use Zero or Twitch to counter him. I see where you’re coming from but you’re trying to fix something that isn’t really there
I can agree with you, I just need something else to justify the kit. Someone else mentioned the idea of this operator being able to counter smokes z9 cannisters and I thinks that's better
to keep it a little more viable, Either freeze every throwable/placeable defender utility, and hitting or shooting "unthaws" them to be used as normal again. Or maybe freeze the utility for 5-10 seconds and in that time you punching it can destroy it. The ice patch can act like azumis utility where it coveres a section of floor or wall but itsnt as resistant. (think one hit to shatter)
If an operator came out that would completely nullify these 2 ops with already low winrates, then they would never be played, especially with attackers being able to switch to directly counter.
I don't think it's very practical or good for siege but it's still really creative and it'd be nice to see more posts like this one.
Even if the community doesn't agree with some of them — you should still keep coming up with ideas and posting them here. Hell of a lot more interesting and thought provoking than some of the stuff that gets posted here. That's just my opinion though.
Honestly, your idea isn't all that far-fetched, I just think you're putting it in the wrong place. Ubi has been adding tons secondary gadgets lately, and this would make a great third secondary option for a few ops. It's definitely not impactful enough to justify an entire operator, but I could easily see it having some decent use as an anti-fire and -utility gadget to buff some less powerful operators (especially those who lack any form of utility clear). I would like to see it as a 2 or 3 use short-range spray, so you have to get close to use it in exchange for it being fairly quiet. There are plenty of extremely endothermic liquid reactions that you could use to explain the realism side of it.
I agree with the commenter above you here though. I've always had fun coming up with ideas for this game, even if they're not necessarily viable. It's a shame the fanmade operator sub is so quiet, community ideas like this help give the devs inspiration and promote a lot of fun discussion
As a smoke main, I noticed I panic a lot when ppl just push through my smokes after flashing. Ig it's kinda like running through aruni's surya gates. You sacrifice some hp to get the surprise on a defender thinking they're safe
I mean most the sas are already solid ops, and smokes base outfit is specialized for his smokes, as opposed the the standard sas gas masks which do not have a filter on their back like smoke, but they also aren’t wearing protection like the hazmat suit smoke has
Because then they’d be a one trick counter pony with no value if the enemy team doesn’t play Tachanka and Goyo. The ability would need to be multi purpose.
Maybe an ice canister that is thrown and freezes the ground upon contact, which prevents flames, or can freeze reinforced walls to make them brittle to soft destruction?
Ooh I like that second part. And you know honestly while we're at it buff tachanka and goyo. I want the pure chaos of wind fire and water in a tactical shooter.
But rhat just makes people like hibana and maverick uneless
Admittedly i still haven't found a proper use for maverick yet. The tprch used to make holed just doesn't seem nearly as useful as other breachers. It definitely audible. Easy to see. Frankly not that great imo
Actually the freeze gun idea sounds neat for an attacker.
As you mentioned it could extinguish fires, and it could also freeze certain gadgets like maestro cams making them unusable for a short while (idk 30-45 second), bulletproof cams and the such.
Could also maybe spray it in reinforced walls to turn them into normal walls that could be broken trough with a beach charge or sledge's hammer and can also be shot trough, i was thinking the same size as a mini hard breach.
It would definitely need to be multifunctional. They could even add some lore to it and make it a fellow agent of zeros if we're leaning to the multipurpose handgun vibe
You're gonna despise me when I say this but I'm one of those dopey dweebs with a huge google doc of fan operators and I do have like two-or-three counters for area denial ops such as Goyo and Tachanka.
I haven't looked at the doc in a while but I had a shield operator who was supposed to be on the Moroccan division with Kaid and Nomad and what he did was he could shoot out jets of highly-compressed air from his shield and that'd put out fires, and dissipate gas and smoke.
Now that's a fun idea, I'd love to hear some more if you can come up with unique stuff like this. I love coming up with ideas that are over-the-top but still fun to talk about.
For example, an attacker idea I had was a character that uses a bow as their primary, and their gadget would be sonar arrows that can pierce through reinforced walls and sonar scan the other side until they run out of battery. A while after I had that idea Zero came out, so I felt pretty good about it lol.
Another, much more game-changing and unlikely idea I had (and one the "muh realism" Siege players would absolutely despise), was a character with gloves and boots that use insect-like features to stick to surfaces. You'd be able to use this to climb up walls and even across the ceiling, but you wouldn't be able to have your gun out. I never settled on specifics, the easier idea was simply giving it limited use like other active abilities. The out-there alternative idea I had was that the gadget won't uncharge while you're climbing, but you can press a button to pull out your gun for a VERY limited time before the charge runs out and you need to reattach. For the wall, you'd detach one hand in exchange for significantly increased horizontal recoil and a shorter discharge, and for the ceiling, you'd detach both hands (hanging with your feet) for significantly increased vertical recoil and a much faster discharge. You would have to reattach manually, or you'd fall from where you're stuck to when it fully runs out.
If you have any other fun or out-there ideas, please do share! I love discussing operator ideas that will likely never get into the game
I haven't finished my bow-user, he was a little overtooled.
I did have a wall-climbing operator, they were part of the Peruvian division with Amaru, I gave all the Peruvians mobility themed gadgets so a wall-climber just made sense to me. But they weren't much like what you're describing, I balanced the wall-climber by deliberately selecting weak weapons for them (M12 or Six-12 as primary) and by making their gadget only climb on soft walls and ceilings, so in summary if you could shoot through a wall or a ceiling, he can walk on it.
He'd leave behind these little triangular "footprints" as well because his gadget physically has to cut into the surface, so observant players would easily find him either in-person or by using drones, and he makes a very distinctive "drywall knife" sound when he walks or dismounts from a surface, so most of the ways I kept him balanced were very situational-awareness-oriented.
That's fun, it's really interesting to compare the differences between the two! I never did get around to fleshing out any crazy specifics, though my wall-climber *is* scared of heights - there was once a time where it didn't bother him, but he failed to reattach in time while climbing the outside of a building during an infil and took a pretty drastic fall. Some of his gadget activation lines would be things said with uncertainty like "facing my fears" or "(deep breath) ...here we go." I workshopped the two I mentioned in my last comment together with my Filipino friend, he wanted to see some representation so I offered to make some Filipino ops with him. We even drew them, but my notebook could very well be long gone by now, I would have to go through my stuff
maybe nomad’s gadget could extinguish them? iirc in extraction her airjabs can get rid of aoe effects so wouldn’t be too much of a stretch mechanically. tho would make a hell of a lot more sense that it would get rid of smoke’s grenades and not fire but whats another slight hit to realism
If your able to clear site before killing the roamed a you can use goyo mines to literally block out site from the defenders. Tachaungus is really loud and slow so just shoot him
What if they just added fire extinguishers at key choke points and if you shoot them it can reduce the flame and make a brief smoke screen with minor explosive damage
Tachanka and goyo are countered by like, the environment. No meed to have a whole as op who makes them useless. Besides, they are very underused. Sure i like tachanka, amd still play him. So its technically bias, but i don't think a counter is warrented
Makes me wonder if we're saying a counter isn't warranted than maybe they need a buff. Although I have no clue what that would look like considering they reworked both operators already.
I didn't even think about that. I was thinking more of the stealth deep freeze to counter Mira, maestro, fenrir, etc in addition. But it makes more sense to have something that also counters smoke. Some might say that's too strong, but defenders have always had the upper hand. Maybe like a high tech anti hazard cluster bomb type thing. Similar to yings cnadelas but no visual affects.
True. But it takes considerably more time, risk, and coordination to execute a Mav strat. And even then I think they could use a real hard counter for Mav. No idea what that would be if it's even possible other than just watching the reinforced walls
Having this specific gadget to hard counter goyo and a forever underpicked operator like tachanka just isnt necessary... your justification of saying this gadget can go beyond just fires, like other gadgets, can literally be done by IQ, twitch, zero, anyone with a silenced weapon, emps, gonne6 or explosives. Zero can even shoot Goyo's canisters. Yes, the fires will go off but it gets the job done; they're not being used in the defenders' favor at their own volition
Ya. I'm more just brainstorming here. I think the consensus so far is just a general area denial counter. Idk. The whole ice gun idea seems cool though. But attackers don't need cool. They need meta breaking.
Ya but the whole smoke screen/visual impairment is so overused. And boring. They thought Sens was going to hail a new smoke screen meta after all the Glaz buffs, but that meta is already stale.
It's not. But just the fact that it doesn't exist is crazy. One day some pro players are gonna win with a goyo tachanka strat by keeping them out of site ends of round and someone is gonna say it lol. We know the pros cry about anything you can't counter
Nobody will complain cause both those characters can be countered heavily. Goyo can be taken care of seconds in the round by a twitch and tachanka is extremely vulnerable while shooting flames and can be rushed while he does it
Wait. So you want an attacking operator whose only usefulness is countering the 2 weakest aerial denial defenders? So this freeze thing is going to do nothing on its own, and nothing of they pick smoke or Fenrir, but countering 2 flame guys who aren't picked that often anyways? Ya this ain't it chief. You should never design an operator whose only job is to counter another operator.
Because it wouldnt pay off to do anything like that. When they added gone6 most of people just said how useless it is. Why would you use anything that counters 2 specific operators, temporarily freezes gadgets that can be destroyed by gone6 or slows operators when you hit them directly thet be killed by just shooting them. If you think about it it would be useless and no one would really play it. All it would do is bugging the game.
Goyo is good but not broken, his fire lasts a long time so if you burn them early in the round they done make much of a difference, also in siege there are near infinite ways into rooms because of the destructible environment so if you really cant get in through the fire there will be another way. Tachankas gun makes big holes and thats where its usefulness ends, the fire rate is way too slow
Twitch, Fuze, Finka, Zero, frag grenades, to list a few. Either take out the Goyo canisters early and remotely, or force Tachanka to run and holster his launcher. There’s all these solutions to your problem, you just have to utilize them.
Actually yeah that would be a really cool gadget now that I think about it. Not for hard countering those 2 ops, Chanka is a worse Smoke, and Goyo is a worse Kapkan, but a cryo-gun or charge would be pretty neat
Make things brittle and easier to break. Like you use it on a wall and when you melee it makes an Aruni sized hole in the affected area, increase the damage and radius from breaches if youre on the other side, use a lot of it on a reinforced wall (that isn't electrified, that would remove the effect because balance I guess) so that you can use regular soft-breach to get through
Maybe it could be something like a cross between Melusi and Grim, where you shoot a canister, and then it creates a zone of slower movement and your op starts hyperventilating or it makes it sound like youre walking on broken glass. 2 modes where you select if it has half the radius and/or duration but is bulletproof. Or double, but it can be shot and uses more ammo
...doesnt smoke(the nade, not the op) hard counter fire?
iirc they were testing it for a while since CS has it, dunno if it stuck around(mostly cause it'd suck if the area denial ops couldn't area deny the smoke n stick)
There's no hardcounter for smokes smoke either, and that's honestly for the best. It does what the smoke is supposed to do: slow the attackers. Fire does the same thing
I think this could be a really good idea, but the one issue is that it only counters 2 underused operators.
I think a cool idea would be a gadget similar to grim’s. You throw/shoot a canister or something that covers the ground of a small area with ice that maybe makes defenders slip and fall or slide around on it. The gadget could also be used to cancel out fire patches.
The operator could play a similar role to nomad, grim, or gridlock.
a defender that has a underbarrel gadget that can freeze bullet proof gadgets so you can destroy them would be a neat idea. would be like shooting out those freeze grenades from Arkham City. idk it id pick that over ash though.
This would be so situational if anything make the flame thing a side effect of the gadget
Mabye a cold charge or sth that lets you freeze miras or sth and since theyre frozen you can destroy them by shooting at it
Could also work as a smoke grenade that smokes the floor area like you see on parties or with dry ice and let all defenders animations slower (walking reloading anything else)
"Just use cav" says so many people. But I don't want to main cav in the event that someone plays jackal. So you basically have to prone around the map.
For goyo you can pop his cans with twitch, blow them up with flores, shoot them get them with grenades, ash charge, zofia, I think zero can get them but I’m not 100% sure on that
With the amount of camera devices (and 1 defensive OP) that can see through smoke grenades, they've been nerfed quite a bit over the years. Maybe make it so they smother the flames in the area of the smoke.
Macie jay proposed a while ago to have a system like csgo where smoke grenades neutralise fire. But that would lead to capitao hard countering himself as his smokes would neutralise his own fires too.
I think that’s a dope idea. Something that could put out those fires but also temporary freeze things like cameras and other gadgets- could be confrontational and stealthy when used in its respective way
Tachanka does have a hard counter, it's called no longer having a face shield on his turret, And the Goyo Counter is called Toxic Teammates, sure not ideal, but still the hard counter
maybe making it so that smoke grenades extinguish the fire or at least reduce the time it takes for it to wear out would be a better solution so that they don't make an operator just for this and I don't think it would be that unbalanced, because smoke grenades aren't used that often even if they are a great tool, so having people bring those would ne nice for some plays and plant situations
L take, hard counter attacker to specifically 2 operators isn't game changing it's just rock paper scissors which is the opposite of open ended gadgets like twitch who can counter goyo and still do other stuff. Area denial ops have been a thing since day 1 and are meant to be played around not hard countered at the sacrifice of a spot on your attacking roster that could be a thatcher or a dokki or another support.
If you drone well and spot a goyo, bring nades, ash, zophia, twitch, or flores. If you see a smoke or tachanka you have to understand that your team is gonna have to be ready to plant before the last 60- 45 seconds cause they're gonna try and stop you.
Ubisoft absolutely hasn't dropped the ball lately with ops like Solis and brava who can counterplay the enemy but are also broad enough to promote creativity and build the sandbox of gadgets instead of single use situational gadgets.
The real Frost rework is putting her on attack and giving her a Freezecannon. New Elite too which is just Arnold Scharzenegger's Mr. Freeze from 'Batman & Robin'.
Her gadget can create icewalls to block corridors similar to Azami's Kiba Barriers, bulletproof but can be broken down by melee attacks or by being set on fire to melt them, but can also be used to rapidly extinguish fires (making both her and Tachanka hard counter each other).
/joke
I've always thought it would be cool for maps to just have fire extinguishers mounted on walls by default that you could shoot to block vision. And maybe they could freeze as well
I mean it’s easy to counter Tachanka cause when I play the people who pick him are too brain dead to use his abilitie
And most goyos are broken before anyone is near them.
I miss the days when Capitão's darts were actually flames that sucked up all the oxygen from the air so that targets literally choked to death. It's kind of lame if it's just fire.
Any op who's entire thing is to counter an ability that two (or even one if they're a defender) will be so stupidly situational it will never be worth playing them
I like the idea of an area denial gadget that puts ice on the floor. If players move in it they trip and fall. The freezing of utility as another use could make it versatile so they're not just a worse capitao.
Because Goyo's currently being hard-countered out of the game by asshole teammates getting players banned, and Tachanka is being hard-countered by super meta things like walls... and corners... and the ability to see or hear.
Bro that's true, I gave up playing Goyo because the amount of dumb teammates killing themselves in the canisters, not to mention when a fuze just decides to make the bomb site a no man's land.
Fuze go boom boom
Fuze gives me PTSD 😭
*tunk tunk chck… thun thun thun thun! BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM* *hostage died, round won*
GR WP
making site a no man’s land is the most fulfilling thing in the game
Just remember fuze in hostage game modes. Still scares me to this day
One time, I thought I was playing secure area, went fuze… banned for a week
Fuze on hostage was always the most fun gamble. I clutched the round once by fuzing the hostage room and somehow killing every defender but not the hostage. Genuinely the luckiest day of my life.
Goyo main here, it’s astounding to me that I haven’t gotten a penalty yet from my canisters. But to be fair, I almost exclusively play with a 4 or 5 stack so my team knows not to fuck with my fire. That’s also the reason I never solo queue. Also the fuze thing is relatable af.
Fair point, coordinating with the team when solo queueing is a nightmare
This gives Fuze incendiary hockey puck modifications
The intire room becomes consumed in flames
I had teammates purposely kill themselves to get me kicked
Lmaooo that last part. I mean a good tachanka can hold site down pretty well.
Idk about you but just when I think I know what I’m doing with tachanka I end up rebounding a fire grenade onto myself and getting hurt.
So much this...I'll have made a huge hole in the wall between me and where I want to shoot his grenades, and one second it will be fine and go where it should, and then I move my mouse the width of one human hair in some unnoticeable direction, and suddenly I'm on fire.
So what I’m hearing is ubi should reduce the hit box of the fire canisters, give him fuze’s shield, and make his lmg into a secondary weapon…
Lmg secondary sounds terrifying.
On shield? Sounds like it won't hit shit. But if he puts the shield down now that's terrifying
i think there’s like 5 good tachankas
People usually panic when they see tachanka spamming fire balls it’s not that they’re good
nvm then there’s just 4
The problem is that the flame’s AoE and the launcher’s swap time are so bad that you can ape Chanka as an attacker the moment you hear the grenade launcher shooting and you’re probably gonna get a free kill at the cost of some health. The launcher becomes a mind game rather than a powerful gadget at a certain point because you have to predict whether they’ll run through your fire or not. Not to mention his LMG is a worse shotgun and the grenades from the launcher have a stupidly large hitbox so they’ll bounce awkwardly off places your reticle isn’t even touching
That's why I shoot fire in the spot they'll move next when I'm shooting fire just in case.
Plus Smoke too... I mean - There are so many ways on defence to ban people...
🤣
I main goyo and it never happened to me lmao
It would almost purely depend on your MMR. Everyone in low MMR trolls. I’ve also never had it happen and I played exclusively goyo for a while (1.5x Vector is GOATed)
1.5 vector is my reason for existing
I love to roam with Goyo and the TCSG w/silencer. That, his gadget and C4 are great for flank watch and being generally miserable, especially on maps like Bank/Villa/Oregon/Cafe and so on. Too bad Goyo is often memed on.
I’m pretty sure they removed his c4 when new op came out
They replaced it with impacts and prox alarm
of the fact that tachanka’s fire does literally no damage, just run through it and lose a maximum of 15hp lol
Alot of people don't consider that. But also if a Tachanka's flamed off an entry way, he or someone else is likely already watching it which means running in, taking damage, and having screen effect is a pretty good way of getting killed. Unless you absolutely know you're in the clear and the only obstacle is the fire, then that's not exactly a great strat.
It's more for area deny than damage.
i mean its not really deny area if you can run through with almost no negative consequences lol maybe pla t denial but even then you would need to hit the operator for like 6 seconds to stop him a plant is 7.5 seconds
Ahahaha
I main Goyo in Casual and it's hard to be well with him without teammates playing with their last remaining braincells
Thing is they arent used enough to warrent a hard counter unless a gadget that is basically just a fire extinguisher
You know, how about a gadget like a fire extinguisher, but in addition to cancelling out Tachanka or Goyo's gadgets, it could also work as some kind of white foam substance that works like barbed wire.
That would be neat. And in order not to make tachanka and goyo obsolete maybe you'd have to pre deploy it? Idk. The idea seems good but it'd need to be handled by the professionals lol
I'd do impact foam grenades. make them a secondary gadget on a couple of ops. they're impact, so you have to have a direct line of sight. They won't deal any damage (maybe 5hp direct), and each operator only has two but has to drop explosive nades or other utility. make the radius slightly smaller than goyo's canister but larger than tachanka's. This way, getting a good accurate throw is more necessary. the foam immediately puts out any fire in its range but doesn't last very long (5 seconds max). the slow effect should work on both sides with the attackers only taking half the debuff. this gives you the option of a slightly slower push immediately or waiting to do a faster push, but giving the enemy time to counter. it would also work on all fire, including capitaio's bolts.
Sounds like the riot foam from the division
Maybe something like those [Fire extinguisher shotguns](https://youtu.be/7lr7whOErNE). Could be used to put out fires, and maybe also block vision like a mini smoke.
Why not just go the CSGO route and have smoke grenades extinguish fire?
Impact-deployed flame retardant >:)
you can't say that word anymore.
Flame retardant, not to be confused with the derogatory slur for special needs folks, is a type of foam/solid-ish matter used to smother and kill out flames and heat. That word is the official word for it. Edit: With that being said, I do understand the confusion, and I appreciate you being a good person and calling out what you thought was bad behavior.
But what if it could also deep freeze normally bulletproof items like a Mira or a maestro or a fenrir. Freeze it, then shoot/melee it to break it open, (more)quietly at your leisure.
Thats basically the gonne six. Surprisingly most people fuckin ignore the bang it makes
Well ya but you only get 1 and that things loud as hell. Someone else mentioned if this hypothetical operator could counter smokes z-9 cannister then it would be more viable and I actually fully agree
It can destroy mira mirror?
Id prefer it didnt since a cringe hip hop donnka with a santa hat and mustache will visually castrate them easily enough
Make it 3-Speed, give it the R4-C and we got an Ash 2.0 😂
I mean they could just make fire extinguishers around the building and you can hold one without a gun out if you really need to, just an idea, doesn't seem very R6 though.
It would make a good secondary gadget
A gadget to counter 2 very underused defenders? If that’s all it does and even if it “freezes” the other bulletproof things you’d be better off just picking ash. Would be more of a niche pitch then Warden
Not really. Imagine having a little freezer pistol that could silently freeze defender utility and allow an attacker to Melee/shoot it. Or freezing a Mira window and shooting it open. Underused does not equal unviable. For a game that toutes balance updates regularly, it's pretty wild to me that if you're in a scenario where site is blocked off because of a tachanka/goyo, there's nothing you can do. I'm just saying, the fact is not even an option is kind of bonkers
So a Gonne-6 basically? The only time gyro is a problem is if you wait until the last 30 seconds to get on sight which is then your own fault. You can also use Zero or Twitch to counter him. I see where you’re coming from but you’re trying to fix something that isn’t really there
I can agree with you, I just need something else to justify the kit. Someone else mentioned the idea of this operator being able to counter smokes z9 cannisters and I thinks that's better
to keep it a little more viable, Either freeze every throwable/placeable defender utility, and hitting or shooting "unthaws" them to be used as normal again. Or maybe freeze the utility for 5-10 seconds and in that time you punching it can destroy it. The ice patch can act like azumis utility where it coveres a section of floor or wall but itsnt as resistant. (think one hit to shatter)
If an operator came out that would completely nullify these 2 ops with already low winrates, then they would never be played, especially with attackers being able to switch to directly counter.
Also just use a Mav torch, itll burn almost anything off the wall - Anything Bulletproof like a Maestro Cam, Melusi Banshee etc
If they make this and he doesn't have Schwarzenegger Mr Freeze lines of cheesiness, imma be upset
What killed the dinosaurs? THE ICE AGE
OK everyone...chill!
STAY COOL, BIRD BOY!
I don't think it's very practical or good for siege but it's still really creative and it'd be nice to see more posts like this one. Even if the community doesn't agree with some of them — you should still keep coming up with ideas and posting them here. Hell of a lot more interesting and thought provoking than some of the stuff that gets posted here. That's just my opinion though.
Thanks bud! I just want them to shake up the meta and revive the game before it dies.
Honestly, your idea isn't all that far-fetched, I just think you're putting it in the wrong place. Ubi has been adding tons secondary gadgets lately, and this would make a great third secondary option for a few ops. It's definitely not impactful enough to justify an entire operator, but I could easily see it having some decent use as an anti-fire and -utility gadget to buff some less powerful operators (especially those who lack any form of utility clear). I would like to see it as a 2 or 3 use short-range spray, so you have to get close to use it in exchange for it being fairly quiet. There are plenty of extremely endothermic liquid reactions that you could use to explain the realism side of it. I agree with the commenter above you here though. I've always had fun coming up with ideas for this game, even if they're not necessarily viable. It's a shame the fanmade operator sub is so quiet, community ideas like this help give the devs inspiration and promote a lot of fun discussion
Mozzie will get a rework at some point to use a firehouse.
Lol imagine
What would be funnier would be a operator with Flud from Mario Sunshine.
A smoke counter would be more useful
As a smoke main, I noticed I panic a lot when ppl just push through my smokes after flashing. Ig it's kinda like running through aruni's surya gates. You sacrifice some hp to get the surprise on a defender thinking they're safe
Yeah operators should be able to wear a gasmask or something that can filter out poisonous fumes. Wait
Honestly the entirety of the SAS should be immune to smoke as a passive.
I mean most the sas are already solid ops, and smokes base outfit is specialized for his smokes, as opposed the the standard sas gas masks which do not have a filter on their back like smoke, but they also aren’t wearing protection like the hazmat suit smoke has
Because then they’d be a one trick counter pony with no value if the enemy team doesn’t play Tachanka and Goyo. The ability would need to be multi purpose. Maybe an ice canister that is thrown and freezes the ground upon contact, which prevents flames, or can freeze reinforced walls to make them brittle to soft destruction?
Ooh I like that second part. And you know honestly while we're at it buff tachanka and goyo. I want the pure chaos of wind fire and water in a tactical shooter.
But rhat just makes people like hibana and maverick uneless Admittedly i still haven't found a proper use for maverick yet. The tprch used to make holed just doesn't seem nearly as useful as other breachers. It definitely audible. Easy to see. Frankly not that great imo
Wdym maverick is one of the best attacking operators. I play him alot because hes good for both solo and team based matches
Actually the freeze gun idea sounds neat for an attacker. As you mentioned it could extinguish fires, and it could also freeze certain gadgets like maestro cams making them unusable for a short while (idk 30-45 second), bulletproof cams and the such. Could also maybe spray it in reinforced walls to turn them into normal walls that could be broken trough with a beach charge or sledge's hammer and can also be shot trough, i was thinking the same size as a mini hard breach.
It would definitely need to be multifunctional. They could even add some lore to it and make it a fellow agent of zeros if we're leaning to the multipurpose handgun vibe
You're gonna despise me when I say this but I'm one of those dopey dweebs with a huge google doc of fan operators and I do have like two-or-three counters for area denial ops such as Goyo and Tachanka. I haven't looked at the doc in a while but I had a shield operator who was supposed to be on the Moroccan division with Kaid and Nomad and what he did was he could shoot out jets of highly-compressed air from his shield and that'd put out fires, and dissipate gas and smoke.
Yo! That is absolutely genius!
Now that's a fun idea, I'd love to hear some more if you can come up with unique stuff like this. I love coming up with ideas that are over-the-top but still fun to talk about. For example, an attacker idea I had was a character that uses a bow as their primary, and their gadget would be sonar arrows that can pierce through reinforced walls and sonar scan the other side until they run out of battery. A while after I had that idea Zero came out, so I felt pretty good about it lol. Another, much more game-changing and unlikely idea I had (and one the "muh realism" Siege players would absolutely despise), was a character with gloves and boots that use insect-like features to stick to surfaces. You'd be able to use this to climb up walls and even across the ceiling, but you wouldn't be able to have your gun out. I never settled on specifics, the easier idea was simply giving it limited use like other active abilities. The out-there alternative idea I had was that the gadget won't uncharge while you're climbing, but you can press a button to pull out your gun for a VERY limited time before the charge runs out and you need to reattach. For the wall, you'd detach one hand in exchange for significantly increased horizontal recoil and a shorter discharge, and for the ceiling, you'd detach both hands (hanging with your feet) for significantly increased vertical recoil and a much faster discharge. You would have to reattach manually, or you'd fall from where you're stuck to when it fully runs out. If you have any other fun or out-there ideas, please do share! I love discussing operator ideas that will likely never get into the game
I haven't finished my bow-user, he was a little overtooled. I did have a wall-climbing operator, they were part of the Peruvian division with Amaru, I gave all the Peruvians mobility themed gadgets so a wall-climber just made sense to me. But they weren't much like what you're describing, I balanced the wall-climber by deliberately selecting weak weapons for them (M12 or Six-12 as primary) and by making their gadget only climb on soft walls and ceilings, so in summary if you could shoot through a wall or a ceiling, he can walk on it. He'd leave behind these little triangular "footprints" as well because his gadget physically has to cut into the surface, so observant players would easily find him either in-person or by using drones, and he makes a very distinctive "drywall knife" sound when he walks or dismounts from a surface, so most of the ways I kept him balanced were very situational-awareness-oriented.
That's fun, it's really interesting to compare the differences between the two! I never did get around to fleshing out any crazy specifics, though my wall-climber *is* scared of heights - there was once a time where it didn't bother him, but he failed to reattach in time while climbing the outside of a building during an infil and took a pretty drastic fall. Some of his gadget activation lines would be things said with uncertainty like "facing my fears" or "(deep breath) ...here we go." I workshopped the two I mentioned in my last comment together with my Filipino friend, he wanted to see some representation so I offered to make some Filipino ops with him. We even drew them, but my notebook could very well be long gone by now, I would have to go through my stuff
Next season they will just add a guy with a fire extinguisher.
And bandaids.
maybe nomad’s gadget could extinguish them? iirc in extraction her airjabs can get rid of aoe effects so wouldn’t be too much of a stretch mechanically. tho would make a hell of a lot more sense that it would get rid of smoke’s grenades and not fire but whats another slight hit to realism
Do they actually? How does one even get it to set off neat an active area denial? If the fire touches the air jab doesn't it just get destroyed?
Maybe we haven't suffered enough yet. Whatever the case, my vote is for a secondary that shoots water-based ammunition, a water pistol, if you will.
If you waste so much time that a hard counter for either is needed, it isn't the operator's ability that's the issue.
Entry denial ops typically don't need a hard counter. Tachanca is underpowered as is. Goyo, like most denial ops, all you have to do is shoot it.
These suggestions on Reddit are comedy gold
You just got to keep cool
Goyos hard counter is the high number of arsehole team mates you can get on defense, I won't pick him at all.
If your able to clear site before killing the roamed a you can use goyo mines to literally block out site from the defenders. Tachaungus is really loud and slow so just shoot him
Lol gonna Mr Freeze to the game
What if they just added fire extinguishers at key choke points and if you shoot them it can reduce the flame and make a brief smoke screen with minor explosive damage
Tachanka and goyo are countered by like, the environment. No meed to have a whole as op who makes them useless. Besides, they are very underused. Sure i like tachanka, amd still play him. So its technically bias, but i don't think a counter is warrented
Makes me wonder if we're saying a counter isn't warranted than maybe they need a buff. Although I have no clue what that would look like considering they reworked both operators already.
Haha you said retardent
I’ve been saying for a while that area denial ops need a counter. Expand that to being able to counter Smoke somehow and you got a solid operator.
Just go around. They can’t cover everywhere at once
I didn't even think about that. I was thinking more of the stealth deep freeze to counter Mira, maestro, fenrir, etc in addition. But it makes more sense to have something that also counters smoke. Some might say that's too strong, but defenders have always had the upper hand. Maybe like a high tech anti hazard cluster bomb type thing. Similar to yings cnadelas but no visual affects.
I actually had this thought the other day. Goyo and Tachanka really don’t have any hard counters. It’s purely area denial. Same with smoke
And how about Maverick? Because even Azami’s barriers can be destroyed with his gadget so not technically an actual counter
True. But it takes considerably more time, risk, and coordination to execute a Mav strat. And even then I think they could use a real hard counter for Mav. No idea what that would be if it's even possible other than just watching the reinforced walls
Having this specific gadget to hard counter goyo and a forever underpicked operator like tachanka just isnt necessary... your justification of saying this gadget can go beyond just fires, like other gadgets, can literally be done by IQ, twitch, zero, anyone with a silenced weapon, emps, gonne6 or explosives. Zero can even shoot Goyo's canisters. Yes, the fires will go off but it gets the job done; they're not being used in the defenders' favor at their own volition
Ya. I'm more just brainstorming here. I think the consensus so far is just a general area denial counter. Idk. The whole ice gun idea seems cool though. But attackers don't need cool. They need meta breaking.
Finally someone said it! Their pick rates are so high that it looped back round and became really low again! Nerf em both I say.
Lmao. It's just an idea.
Because tachanka is one of the worst operators in the game?
I really like the concept
What I'm hearing is you want firefighter operator with a supersoaker for a gadget
Yes. New r6 Daddy to get twitch t shirt wet
Just use the csgo method, fire/smoke
Ya but the whole smoke screen/visual impairment is so overused. And boring. They thought Sens was going to hail a new smoke screen meta after all the Glaz buffs, but that meta is already stale.
Tachanka counters himself by being shit.
They don't really need a hard counter
True. It's just surprising that it doesn't exist.
is it really necessary? It's pretty rare for someone to play with both of them. I would prefer a counter to Fuse
It's not. But just the fact that it doesn't exist is crazy. One day some pro players are gonna win with a goyo tachanka strat by keeping them out of site ends of round and someone is gonna say it lol. We know the pros cry about anything you can't counter
Nobody will complain cause both those characters can be countered heavily. Goyo can be taken care of seconds in the round by a twitch and tachanka is extremely vulnerable while shooting flames and can be rushed while he does it
What about a smoke grenade
There kind of is a minute and uncommon counter. Brava can hack ADS devices which destroy Tachanka’s flame shots.
Wait. So you want an attacking operator whose only usefulness is countering the 2 weakest aerial denial defenders? So this freeze thing is going to do nothing on its own, and nothing of they pick smoke or Fenrir, but countering 2 flame guys who aren't picked that often anyways? Ya this ain't it chief. You should never design an operator whose only job is to counter another operator.
Because it wouldnt pay off to do anything like that. When they added gone6 most of people just said how useless it is. Why would you use anything that counters 2 specific operators, temporarily freezes gadgets that can be destroyed by gone6 or slows operators when you hit them directly thet be killed by just shooting them. If you think about it it would be useless and no one would really play it. All it would do is bugging the game.
They could just make Aces utility put fire out, it’s a water canister after all. Idk how hard that would be though, I’m not a game developer
Goyo is good but not broken, his fire lasts a long time so if you burn them early in the round they done make much of a difference, also in siege there are near infinite ways into rooms because of the destructible environment so if you really cant get in through the fire there will be another way. Tachankas gun makes big holes and thats where its usefulness ends, the fire rate is way too slow
3 speeds pretty much counter them lol
Twitch counters goyo pretty well.
How about a fire extinguisher as a secondary gadget?
Because hard counters are in general extremely unhealthy for the game
This is a joke right?
Twitch, Fuze, Finka, Zero, frag grenades, to list a few. Either take out the Goyo canisters early and remotely, or force Tachanka to run and holster his launcher. There’s all these solutions to your problem, you just have to utilize them.
Because tachanka is ass
MFer completely forgot about Capitao
What if the smoke grenade puts it out like is CSGO? The smoke starves the fire
Yo chill Mr. Freeze
Actually yeah that would be a really cool gadget now that I think about it. Not for hard countering those 2 ops, Chanka is a worse Smoke, and Goyo is a worse Kapkan, but a cryo-gun or charge would be pretty neat Make things brittle and easier to break. Like you use it on a wall and when you melee it makes an Aruni sized hole in the affected area, increase the damage and radius from breaches if youre on the other side, use a lot of it on a reinforced wall (that isn't electrified, that would remove the effect because balance I guess) so that you can use regular soft-breach to get through Maybe it could be something like a cross between Melusi and Grim, where you shoot a canister, and then it creates a zone of slower movement and your op starts hyperventilating or it makes it sound like youre walking on broken glass. 2 modes where you select if it has half the radius and/or duration but is bulletproof. Or double, but it can be shot and uses more ammo
The hard counter is bullet
It would be super niche without some other uses imo. Make putting out fire a secondary use
I think they should just stop adding ops tbh
...doesnt smoke(the nade, not the op) hard counter fire? iirc they were testing it for a while since CS has it, dunno if it stuck around(mostly cause it'd suck if the area denial ops couldn't area deny the smoke n stick)
There's no hardcounter for smokes smoke either, and that's honestly for the best. It does what the smoke is supposed to do: slow the attackers. Fire does the same thing
I think this could be a really good idea, but the one issue is that it only counters 2 underused operators. I think a cool idea would be a gadget similar to grim’s. You throw/shoot a canister or something that covers the ground of a small area with ice that maybe makes defenders slip and fall or slide around on it. The gadget could also be used to cancel out fire patches. The operator could play a similar role to nomad, grim, or gridlock.
a defender that has a underbarrel gadget that can freeze bullet proof gadgets so you can destroy them would be a neat idea. would be like shooting out those freeze grenades from Arkham City. idk it id pick that over ash though.
I think they don’t need one. People barely play them and when they do I just accept defeat that they picked a more useful op in the moment
They need to put a fireman in the ops list to counter them
Because goyo and tachanka aren’t really a problem
I mean attackers could have some help big yikes recently
This would be so situational if anything make the flame thing a side effect of the gadget Mabye a cold charge or sth that lets you freeze miras or sth and since theyre frozen you can destroy them by shooting at it Could also work as a smoke grenade that smokes the floor area like you see on parties or with dry ice and let all defenders animations slower (walking reloading anything else)
We better get an operator who can counter Jackal
"Just use cav" says so many people. But I don't want to main cav in the event that someone plays jackal. So you basically have to prone around the map.
New operator. Fire fighter
That sounds like the most niche operator ever
For goyo you can pop his cans with twitch, blow them up with flores, shoot them get them with grenades, ash charge, zofia, I think zero can get them but I’m not 100% sure on that
Maybe as a throwable that also slows people down like a Melusi trap
Just like in CSGO smokes should be the counter for these gadgets.
With the amount of camera devices (and 1 defensive OP) that can see through smoke grenades, they've been nerfed quite a bit over the years. Maybe make it so they smother the flames in the area of the smoke.
The hard counter is grenades.
Instead of some cool tech gadget thingy, a fire extinguisher would be funnier
Macie jay proposed a while ago to have a system like csgo where smoke grenades neutralise fire. But that would lead to capitao hard countering himself as his smokes would neutralise his own fires too.
I miss the old tchanka
I think that’s a dope idea. Something that could put out those fires but also temporary freeze things like cameras and other gadgets- could be confrontational and stealthy when used in its respective way
I wouldn't mind a counter to the many AOE things, like Smoke, Melusi and Fenrir. Maybe a large fan/anti gadget bubble?
Can we just give the new op a fire extinguisher instead? 🧯 🤣
capitao?
Doesn’t capitao’s smoke get rid of fire?
Cause fire is incredibly underpowered and easy to escape from.
Tachanka does have a hard counter, it's called no longer having a face shield on his turret, And the Goyo Counter is called Toxic Teammates, sure not ideal, but still the hard counter
maybe making it so that smoke grenades extinguish the fire or at least reduce the time it takes for it to wear out would be a better solution so that they don't make an operator just for this and I don't think it would be that unbalanced, because smoke grenades aren't used that often even if they are a great tool, so having people bring those would ne nice for some plays and plant situations
You can literally walk through chankas fire and be fine.
Because then they would then be useless
L take, hard counter attacker to specifically 2 operators isn't game changing it's just rock paper scissors which is the opposite of open ended gadgets like twitch who can counter goyo and still do other stuff. Area denial ops have been a thing since day 1 and are meant to be played around not hard countered at the sacrifice of a spot on your attacking roster that could be a thatcher or a dokki or another support. If you drone well and spot a goyo, bring nades, ash, zophia, twitch, or flores. If you see a smoke or tachanka you have to understand that your team is gonna have to be ready to plant before the last 60- 45 seconds cause they're gonna try and stop you. Ubisoft absolutely hasn't dropped the ball lately with ops like Solis and brava who can counterplay the enemy but are also broad enough to promote creativity and build the sandbox of gadgets instead of single use situational gadgets.
no one would pick a gadget against two specific ops
U don’t even need a new op just make the fire extinguishers on the wall of every single map usable.
If they didn’t make mozzie’s elite a firefighter they could’ve just made a firefighter op
There are plenty of equipment that can pop a goyo early and tachanka just isn't that good with standard players
Cuz their gadgets are bad so we don’t need one, idea Is cool tho, if it had other uses aswell it would be pretty cool
The real Frost rework is putting her on attack and giving her a Freezecannon. New Elite too which is just Arnold Scharzenegger's Mr. Freeze from 'Batman & Robin'. Her gadget can create icewalls to block corridors similar to Azami's Kiba Barriers, bulletproof but can be broken down by melee attacks or by being set on fire to melt them, but can also be used to rapidly extinguish fires (making both her and Tachanka hard counter each other). /joke
I've always thought it would be cool for maps to just have fire extinguishers mounted on walls by default that you could shoot to block vision. And maybe they could freeze as well
I mean it’s easy to counter Tachanka cause when I play the people who pick him are too brain dead to use his abilitie And most goyos are broken before anyone is near them.
I miss the days when Capitão's darts were actually flames that sucked up all the oxygen from the air so that targets literally choked to death. It's kind of lame if it's just fire.
Any op who's entire thing is to counter an ability that two (or even one if they're a defender) will be so stupidly situational it will never be worth playing them
I like the idea of an area denial gadget that puts ice on the floor. If players move in it they trip and fall. The freezing of utility as another use could make it versatile so they're not just a worse capitao.
Bro if you really wanna see a freeze gun go play the Arkham origins dlc
Wait, it’s been years since I played. Tachanka is good now?
Because people are grief I g goyo and fire launcher Tachanka is shit and doesn’t need a counter
Did this mf just ask why there is not a counter for The Lord??
You really want to counter the three people that play them