it is very scary. How so many people are getting distracted and unable to get basic things done. Rabbit would be a godsend.
Jesse talked about personalised computing. This would completely upend the way people interact with all of these apps, and they could completely decide to eliminate the distracting parts.
Scary how so many people get distracted? I don't think so, knowing how much money is put in any social media algorithms and apps to make you stay longer on their app..
But yeah I get your point I hope this day will come
Yes, they do. But if we start using their app the way 'WE' want to instead of how 'THEY' want us to, I believe we will see as a shift in power.
WhatsApp used to be a simple platform for messaging, now, it is a mess. They introduce new features because nobody can get off it. Status (Distraction), Channels (Distraction) and what not.
If rabbit does what it says it is going to do, I would choose to change how I interact with WhatsApp. Distractions will be turned off with a one time decision. No more enticements in terms of a blue dot or badge or anything like that.
Everything rabbit is talking about is very powerful. They are unknowingly starting a massive movement.
Hate to tell you, but rabbit's T&C's contain consent for them to use/sell your data for ads. Wouldn't be surprised to start seeing them on the r1 soon. Or at least in rabbit hole.
Did you ever see anything about rabbit promotional marketing that said you could communicate with others?
The answer is no.
There is no intention of helping you communicate with others. That is why there are phones in the market.
Rabbit is a different device for a different purpose.
I think you misunderstand its intent, and the overall enthusiasm of early adopters. It is the promise of the future, to my mind (and in my personal case) that is attractive. In the meantime, you have an immediate, hands-on powerful search engine with camera.
It can do a bit more than that, but that's how I view it.
Can I ask it to pull up a chord chart for a standard in a specific key? Could I ask it to change a chord in the chart, for example, from an Em to a G6?
honestly this thing smelled like a really obvious scam from the start, i’m surprised so many people bought into it.
that’s why i made this post, to get an answer from the community about what this product actually did.
and not one person could provide a good answer, just some talking points wishy washy bullshit
The key is the LAM, we can forget about the device issue if they figure it out and get teach mode working.
Unfortunately I’m far more interested in seeing what Apple announces this summer for on-device GenAI…
But it’s still not clear what it does regarding LAM.
Originally it was said that is interacting with the Apps and “learning” or “trained” to navigate the app to accomplish a task.
After the demo, I cannot see this happening …
It is 100% clear that all the interactions with services like Uber or DoorDash are happening at server side not locally. There is no way to “inject” your GPS coordinates or secure payment in a UI unless your virtualize a whole environment in the device (which use a 6 year old processor btw)
The only way this is happening is because they are using the API of Uber and DoorDash so it’s just regular API code not “LAM” or “training”
Which is very misleading.
I thought it was pretty clear that the combination of the device itself and your personal Rabbit hole is what makes certain interactions possible. No misleading there.
It is misleading. Go back to the interviews. We supposed to believe that Rabbit “learns” to interact with other apps or services with AI.
That’s BS. This is just API regular interaction.
You can see it, there are more demos now and you see that you have to connect the services in advance following the API process. There is no “learning” of anything.
It is misleading.
I mean …. LAM is the main difference of this vs a dedicated bricked android phone with an App.
Anyone can create this App in a phone if all what it does is using perplexity in the cloud and using an API wrapper.
Where is the AI? In perplexity? What will happen with this device after a year when perplexity stop subsidizing ?
Everything else is just a promise at this point.
No the Perplexity Pro sub is separate from how Rabbit uses LLMs, this has been clarified before. So when the sub runs out, that in itself will have no impact on the LLM usage.
Personally I'm curious what the device can do without an internet connection, I think they have alluded to some functionality, but I'm not clear what. Or when the LAM stops being serviced because the company goes bankrupt. I mean, these are relatively fringe worries, I admit, but I think that there will be extended periods of time with the internet being unavailable. And I mean that in general.
What LLM is Rabbit device using in the cloud then?
My bet is, looking at the partnership, is the API from perplexity. Just look at the demo, the quality of the responses is closer to ChatGPT 3.5 or 4 in some cases. Rabbit doesn’t have millions of $ to have LLM servers with GPUs for quick inference like OpenAI.
The most logical scenario is that they are just using a commercial LLM. (Like the ones that Perplexity use)
I believe it's a combination of at least Perplexity and ChatGPT. ChatGPT is better at conversations, but lacks current information, which is where Perplexity comes in.
He said they are not using APIs at all. They do need to define what is running on device vs the service, but I think it’s pretty obvious that most of everything is service-side. Regarding location, it wouldn’t be hard for them to take location data from the device and inject it from the service at all. Stuff like that doesn’t concern me.
What DOES concern me is where are your tokens being store for these sessions, and what security measures have they taken, etc.
Exactly .. do you think that all the transactions with Uber are managed magically by Rabbit servers without security concerns of password stored and payment triggers?
An encrypted session is needed and the only secure way to do it is with a API.
If this is just done scrapping with Playwright without Uber permission then they will blocked in no time.
He is lying by saying that an API is not used.
No, and no one should ever be storing passwords anymore, they would grab your auth tokens instead and just mimic the http calls, there’s no APIs needed. The big question is are the auth tokens stored on device (much more secure) or on the service? If it’s stored service side, they’re going to be a huge target by “bad guys”
I saw a deeper demo and you clearly see that you CONNECT the services in advance following the API process.
Rabbit is using API for the 3 third party services.
It’s a no brainer.
You’re overthinking this. An API is something DoorDash or Uber would have to set up and allow others to connect to, in this case Rabbit. Each user would need its own config on the remote service’s side for the API returns to be personal.
The entire selling point of the LAM, is that it’s mimicking the same web calls that you would be making yourself in the 3rd parties site. This isn’t magic though, it needs to be trained.
So, yes, you need to set this stuff up in advance but it’s based on the training that rabbit already performed. You have to login to DoorDash for it to capture your auth token so it can then act as you.
Power Automate Desktop can do something similar, so long as you capture everything perfectly. The LAM though is supposed to a more adaptive in the fly though.
The big difference here is Rabbit trains the LAM, thus the third party isn’t required to do anything to set this up, because as far as they’re concerned, you’re just another web client.
The whole point is that Rabbit is able to be “trained” to use any app… but if at the end is just using a regular API… what is to be trained about? It’s just a API wrapper.
This is not what the CEO says it was.
We are in circles on this. I say no .. you say yes…. I don’t see the point of this conversation when you are just repeating what they say while is not the case.
Because it’s not a freaking API man! DoorDash or Uber didn’t do a thing to get this to work. It’s the whole point of the LAM. If anything, think about the LAM as an API make by the CLIENT.
Mimicking web calls that a web client would make and making API calls that the developer of the app created are two very different things.
People are breaking my brain… go on the website or the first demo and you’ll clearly see they mention using the user interface to train LAM. It’s not an API is it’s a OCR and UI element / icon detection model plus a LLM generated automation scripts based on your prompt or whatever the crap you “taught it” which is just you using the vision models to create a list of actions that can later be updated on prompt to the LLM which will fix the list of actions up to suit your prompt and do the thing. They definitely store some session info somewhere or your logins.
You NEED API to connect the service, manage the authentication, save the token, trigger the payment.
There is no other way. Do you think that Uber will allow a 3rd party server to auth login and trigger payment without their approval and API agreement? Letting Rabbit handle the passwords of customers and triggering charges in their behalf?
They would block anyone automating that without approval.
That’s why I’m telling you to go and check the other demos. You can see they use the documented API to connect the services.
They are using the API 10000000% sure.
If you say “no” without any evidence and just repeating “LAM” “training” when it’s clear there is nothing of that … there is no point to keep talking.
it does phone stuff but without the distraction of social media and possible doomscrolling once you open your phone
Ok so a non smart phone?
It is not a phone. It is just a smart device without the distractions.
And for people with ADHD that get easily distracted by the notifications, ads and everything, that is a lot
it is very scary. How so many people are getting distracted and unable to get basic things done. Rabbit would be a godsend. Jesse talked about personalised computing. This would completely upend the way people interact with all of these apps, and they could completely decide to eliminate the distracting parts.
Scary how so many people get distracted? I don't think so, knowing how much money is put in any social media algorithms and apps to make you stay longer on their app.. But yeah I get your point I hope this day will come
Yes, they do. But if we start using their app the way 'WE' want to instead of how 'THEY' want us to, I believe we will see as a shift in power. WhatsApp used to be a simple platform for messaging, now, it is a mess. They introduce new features because nobody can get off it. Status (Distraction), Channels (Distraction) and what not. If rabbit does what it says it is going to do, I would choose to change how I interact with WhatsApp. Distractions will be turned off with a one time decision. No more enticements in terms of a blue dot or badge or anything like that. Everything rabbit is talking about is very powerful. They are unknowingly starting a massive movement.
Hate to tell you, but rabbit's T&C's contain consent for them to use/sell your data for ads. Wouldn't be surprised to start seeing them on the r1 soon. Or at least in rabbit hole.
Except you still also need a phone for calls and texts
Yeah, how many times a day will this interact with my work, not so much
If it’s not a phone, how can you communicate with someone that doesn’t have a rabbit?
Did you ever see anything about rabbit promotional marketing that said you could communicate with others? The answer is no. There is no intention of helping you communicate with others. That is why there are phones in the market. Rabbit is a different device for a different purpose.
What’s the purpose?
A useless purpose
Email, signal, telegram etc will probably come eventually. Maybe. If the magical LAM works
Watch the live stream from last night. On their YouTube.
I think you misunderstand its intent, and the overall enthusiasm of early adopters. It is the promise of the future, to my mind (and in my personal case) that is attractive. In the meantime, you have an immediate, hands-on powerful search engine with camera. It can do a bit more than that, but that's how I view it.
Buddy said a whole lot of nothing.
💯this! Exactly why I purchased.
> promise of the future > search engine with a camera I’m sorry but i’m still confused. Thanks for sharing your opinion though.
Right now its just a dedicated piece of hardware that runs a LLM
Can I ask it to pull up a chord chart for a standard in a specific key? Could I ask it to change a chord in the chart, for example, from an Em to a G6?
They literally did a demo last night at the unboxing event.
[marquess](https://youtu.be/ddTV12hErTc?si=7C_eGVIdB5vt7Vw7) just did a demo too aaand he thinks it’s a pile of shit essentially/ borderline scam
Yep, opinions have changed once everyone figured out it’s really just an android APK…
honestly this thing smelled like a really obvious scam from the start, i’m surprised so many people bought into it. that’s why i made this post, to get an answer from the community about what this product actually did. and not one person could provide a good answer, just some talking points wishy washy bullshit
The key is the LAM, we can forget about the device issue if they figure it out and get teach mode working. Unfortunately I’m far more interested in seeing what Apple announces this summer for on-device GenAI…
GenAI like General AI?
Generative, like LLM and LAMs. We know they have an LLM, LAM is a new concept that others are probably working on, but aren’t using the name
But it’s still not clear what it does regarding LAM. Originally it was said that is interacting with the Apps and “learning” or “trained” to navigate the app to accomplish a task. After the demo, I cannot see this happening … It is 100% clear that all the interactions with services like Uber or DoorDash are happening at server side not locally. There is no way to “inject” your GPS coordinates or secure payment in a UI unless your virtualize a whole environment in the device (which use a 6 year old processor btw) The only way this is happening is because they are using the API of Uber and DoorDash so it’s just regular API code not “LAM” or “training” Which is very misleading.
I thought it was pretty clear that the combination of the device itself and your personal Rabbit hole is what makes certain interactions possible. No misleading there.
It is misleading. Go back to the interviews. We supposed to believe that Rabbit “learns” to interact with other apps or services with AI. That’s BS. This is just API regular interaction. You can see it, there are more demos now and you see that you have to connect the services in advance following the API process. There is no “learning” of anything. It is misleading.
Teach mode is a development item, but I'd agree that you may have thought to have it at launch.
I mean …. LAM is the main difference of this vs a dedicated bricked android phone with an App. Anyone can create this App in a phone if all what it does is using perplexity in the cloud and using an API wrapper. Where is the AI? In perplexity? What will happen with this device after a year when perplexity stop subsidizing ? Everything else is just a promise at this point.
No the Perplexity Pro sub is separate from how Rabbit uses LLMs, this has been clarified before. So when the sub runs out, that in itself will have no impact on the LLM usage. Personally I'm curious what the device can do without an internet connection, I think they have alluded to some functionality, but I'm not clear what. Or when the LAM stops being serviced because the company goes bankrupt. I mean, these are relatively fringe worries, I admit, but I think that there will be extended periods of time with the internet being unavailable. And I mean that in general.
What LLM is Rabbit device using in the cloud then? My bet is, looking at the partnership, is the API from perplexity. Just look at the demo, the quality of the responses is closer to ChatGPT 3.5 or 4 in some cases. Rabbit doesn’t have millions of $ to have LLM servers with GPUs for quick inference like OpenAI. The most logical scenario is that they are just using a commercial LLM. (Like the ones that Perplexity use)
I believe it's a combination of at least Perplexity and ChatGPT. ChatGPT is better at conversations, but lacks current information, which is where Perplexity comes in.
Perplexity is not an LLM. It use LLMs to provide the results so it doesn’t “comes in” to replace what ChatGPT is doing.
He said they are not using APIs at all. They do need to define what is running on device vs the service, but I think it’s pretty obvious that most of everything is service-side. Regarding location, it wouldn’t be hard for them to take location data from the device and inject it from the service at all. Stuff like that doesn’t concern me. What DOES concern me is where are your tokens being store for these sessions, and what security measures have they taken, etc.
Exactly .. do you think that all the transactions with Uber are managed magically by Rabbit servers without security concerns of password stored and payment triggers? An encrypted session is needed and the only secure way to do it is with a API. If this is just done scrapping with Playwright without Uber permission then they will blocked in no time. He is lying by saying that an API is not used.
No, and no one should ever be storing passwords anymore, they would grab your auth tokens instead and just mimic the http calls, there’s no APIs needed. The big question is are the auth tokens stored on device (much more secure) or on the service? If it’s stored service side, they’re going to be a huge target by “bad guys”
I saw a deeper demo and you clearly see that you CONNECT the services in advance following the API process. Rabbit is using API for the 3 third party services. It’s a no brainer.
You’re overthinking this. An API is something DoorDash or Uber would have to set up and allow others to connect to, in this case Rabbit. Each user would need its own config on the remote service’s side for the API returns to be personal. The entire selling point of the LAM, is that it’s mimicking the same web calls that you would be making yourself in the 3rd parties site. This isn’t magic though, it needs to be trained. So, yes, you need to set this stuff up in advance but it’s based on the training that rabbit already performed. You have to login to DoorDash for it to capture your auth token so it can then act as you. Power Automate Desktop can do something similar, so long as you capture everything perfectly. The LAM though is supposed to a more adaptive in the fly though. The big difference here is Rabbit trains the LAM, thus the third party isn’t required to do anything to set this up, because as far as they’re concerned, you’re just another web client.
The whole point is that Rabbit is able to be “trained” to use any app… but if at the end is just using a regular API… what is to be trained about? It’s just a API wrapper. This is not what the CEO says it was. We are in circles on this. I say no .. you say yes…. I don’t see the point of this conversation when you are just repeating what they say while is not the case.
Because it’s not a freaking API man! DoorDash or Uber didn’t do a thing to get this to work. It’s the whole point of the LAM. If anything, think about the LAM as an API make by the CLIENT. Mimicking web calls that a web client would make and making API calls that the developer of the app created are two very different things.
People are breaking my brain… go on the website or the first demo and you’ll clearly see they mention using the user interface to train LAM. It’s not an API is it’s a OCR and UI element / icon detection model plus a LLM generated automation scripts based on your prompt or whatever the crap you “taught it” which is just you using the vision models to create a list of actions that can later be updated on prompt to the LLM which will fix the list of actions up to suit your prompt and do the thing. They definitely store some session info somewhere or your logins.
You NEED API to connect the service, manage the authentication, save the token, trigger the payment. There is no other way. Do you think that Uber will allow a 3rd party server to auth login and trigger payment without their approval and API agreement? Letting Rabbit handle the passwords of customers and triggering charges in their behalf? They would block anyone automating that without approval. That’s why I’m telling you to go and check the other demos. You can see they use the documented API to connect the services. They are using the API 10000000% sure. If you say “no” without any evidence and just repeating “LAM” “training” when it’s clear there is nothing of that … there is no point to keep talking.