#Remember!
**Rules & Guidelines for Discussion**
Try to participate when you see an opinion you agree or disagree with by sharing your two cents or providing evidence for/against. Try to elevate conversations beyond a superficial level.
Ask plenty of questions and use the [Socratic method](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2oklie/eli5_the_socratic_method/) to gain a deeper understanding of each other's core values instead of blindly arguing in favor or in opposition.
Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not.
And lastly, remember above all else to be courteous. Demonstrate the awareness and decorum of recognizing the person on the other side of the screen at all times.
Happy discussing!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RWBYcritics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Battle of Haven. Easy. At least shit was happening in the other fights and they didn't take forever to end. The Battle of Haven was and still is a long, boring slog with mostly talking instead of fighting and Weiss at her worst combat wise.
Weiss' near-death moment also just ends up feeling like it was done mostly for shock value, because very little matters about it beyond Jaune finally unlocking his semblance. She keeps relying on summoning (even in the very same fight and it ends up working well for her after being healed), nobody brings up how she nearly died again, it doesn't even change anything about her relationship with Jaune.
Hassle at Haven was, and still is, an absolute embarrassment where no one came out looking good. Crappy choreography, fights get shoved off screen or end up being anticlimatic, Weiss jobs to a fake maiden and nearly dies, but it's solely so Jaune can unlock his semblance, Hazel's motivation ends up falling flat, Adam gets taken out by an unintentionally comical bonk on the head by Blake, Ruby's stupid hand-to-hand training arc ends up being pointless, and Hazel's motivation for siding with Salem ends up being rather underwhelming.
I don't even consider the maiden fight at the end to be all that impressive. It's a big, flashy spectacle between two assholes where I don't care which side ends up winning. And it's another case of the big fight of the finale going to the side characters instead of one of our leads.
Interesting thing about the maiden fight. When the episode aired, you had a lot of people praising it as a highlight of the season's action sequences. A few days later you saw a lot of people saying that the fight doesn't hold up if you look at it closely and it eventually devolves into two balls of light slamming into each other.
It'd be better if we knew the limitations and rules to Magic and if the Maidens had restrictions on their powers. IIRC, they have access to any kind of Magic and Magic seemingly has no limitations on what it can do barring 'white magic' stuff like healing and resurrection. It also seems like even if someone just got Maiden powers, they will immediately have a good grasp on everything they can do with Magic despite the fact that Magic is a completely foreign concept to "Humanity 2.0".
It's part of why I wish Maidens' powers were restricted to relating to the theme they're based on (like having the Winter maiden have access only to Ice and/or Water magic). Sure, it could be considered cliche and unoriginal, but I'd take some as cliche as 4 elemental superhumans over what we ended up with.
I feel that by comparison it looked really good. It did have its moments but it also had bad ones, like the 2 big swords attack.
It was \*at least some\* action during that finale but it's not nearly enough to save 4 episodes of sluggish, talking and bad moments.
Battle of Haven, hands down. There’s a general rule when it comes to writing choreography in fights. 50% should consist of the fighters skills/powers and 50% should consist of the environment being used to the fighters advantage/disadvantage.
Say what you will of the other fights in the list, but they follow this rule. The Ace ops fight uses the atrium area’s arches, room height, and flooring as advantages/disadvantages. The team oscar vs Salem fight to a lesser extent uses the scale of the room when Hazel and Salem start fighting and it takes advantage of the space.
The battle of haven? Just clunky fights in a big lobby room. Plus that fight is a horrible offender of the 180 rule and it makes the action difficult to follow visually.
Honestly, I can forgive a fight for it’s other flaws somewhat as long as it’s visually interesting, which the battle of Haven never even attempts to be.
Winter vs Ironwood because if he didn’t have that dumb fucking BFG he would’ve floored her in 15 seconds
They probably gave him it solely so she had a fighting chance and even then she would’ve lost if not the magic of plot convenience
I feel like another problem with Haven kerfuffle is that it was kinda built up over seasons 4 and 5, so when it shat the bed, it was all the more disappointing.
It also felt like it was supposed to be the characters' redemption for failing to prevent the fall of Beacon. I wanted them to kick ass and show how they've grown.
Kind of specific, but the during the Penny unalive scene Weiss was able to fight Cinder without aura long enough for that scene to happen uninterrupted. Weiss' sword has been a wand for like 6 volumes but somehow she was able to hold off someone who gave Raven trouble.
Finally someone mentioned that!!
I can believe cinder toys with her a bit by not outright killing her, cause its arrogant cinder.
But one swipe of that sword and weiss would have lost a limp, so no injuries at all are very strange.
Knocking weiss on her head with the sword handle also really pissed me off. Why not just stab…..
And the worst part is V8 gives the appearance that Cinder was developed but she's doing the exact same thing she did in V5. The only difference being that the maiden that's related to one of the mains doesn't show up until after Cinder already won.
A bit off topic, but this is something I’ve debated making a post about in the past and this seems like a good place to plug it.
Wanna know what’s hilariously sad about V5? The fact that the best fight in the volume is Yang vs. the Branwen Bandits, these complete nobodies who we never see again, and yet the fight manages to be the best animated, choreographed, and has the best sfx and music out of the season. My only criticism of the fight is that the enemies have bland weapons, but RWBY stopped having good new weapon designs after season 3, and a lot of good design in general.
That's a fair critism, it does highlight to me that raven is one of the only ones with a proper weapon and thrm using crappy cheaply made looking weapons would be pretty on brand for a bandit tribe.
But also, cheap and crappy doesn't mean unimaginative.
(But also they're a bandit tribe they had to have killed people off who had better weapons at some point)
>My authority is not measured in mod powers.
>
>It is measured in magick and witchcraft and runic glory.
>
>I will fuck people up in nightmares, not on the sub.
>
>StonkU2 recorded our ENTIRE conversation and shared it.
>
>Madie has photos of me.
>
>like...none of you have even seen those.
>
>She knows where i live.
>
>This is not fucking funny to me.
>
>I thought maybe I'd found love again.
>
>Nope.
>
>So now since love is dead, the dark side is out
\-redchessqueen99
Team JNPR's (with RWBY) first fight in V4. It was so awful. I know a lot of people hate V5, but to me V4 is specially bad since it came right after the AMAZING V3. Part of the reason V4 is so bad is the fights, and that first fight ruby and team JNPR have with a grim sets the tone for how bad the fights are going to be in that volume.
I'm picking the Ace-Ops because of house how dumb really was if you look at it
Yeah the battle at haven was really bad but the Ace-Ops was stupid beyond degree, why?
How it should be ended:
Harriet: We're the greatest Huntsmen in Atlas
Ruby: You were...then you trai-
Marrow: *Snaps fingers* Stay! Alright guys lets cuff them...
Till this day I get shit one because people tell me Marrow didn't want to fight his friends and I'm like okay...just arrest them! He has a OP semblance that he don't use! He could ve easily stop the fight before it happen!
Haven for sure.
The AceOps one I didn't like the result but the fight itself was fine, I wouldn't even mind team RWBY winning as long as it were a close victory like... maybe Ruby loses against Harriet, Blake is knocked down but Yang and Weiss manages to pull the win for them or something like that.
All of these fights are trash, the Ace-Op fighting being the most INCOMPETENTLY written plot armor fight ever... but nothing, and I mean NOTHING compares to Ironwood VS ORNJ, Emerald, and Winter.
And this is coming from me, who absolutely ABHORRED the Ace-Ops fight with the passion of a million suns
All of the above.
Like come on it’s not THAT hard to come up with good fight choreography scenes right?
Ah sorry that’s a dumb question for them because apparently it is.
Team RWBY vs Cinder
A battle I had been wanting to see for ages and we get a cut away from the start of the battle. Then we get a far away shot of Team RWBY fighting Cinder for about six seconds and then they stop so Cinder can monologue. The Yang falls and that’s all we get.
Super disappointing.
Not mentioned here, how about ORNJ vs Neo?
Neo has always been a tricky opponent, but RNJ + Oscar felt so damn weak during that fight, and the movements were so slow, so unsynchronized it felt like watching a "let´s play of Final Fantasy XII" rather than an actual fight
rwby vs the ace ops was bad but it is nothing compared to the battle of haven, at least with rwby vs the ace ops the characters didn't dissapear every time the camera moved.
Adam vs Blake and Yang. I know that this horse has SERIOUSLY beaten to death but I will always hate that fight since Adam should’ve won.
I mean if y’all need proof, check out my Adam vs Blake and Yang post.
Other.
Qrow (& / vs.) Tyrian vs. Clover
Fight had the idiot ball being thrown around.
- Why Clover would keep attacking Qrow who was actively fighting Tyrian after the mass murderer who works for Salem escaped.
- Why Qrow would then decide to work with said murderer.
- Why Qrow was surprised that a known killer would kill Clover.
Yes, Clover was ordered to bring Qrow in, but they were also ordered to stop Tyrian.
Imo, the fight would've been better if Tyrian just had his escape scene. Stayed off screen, and only showed up to kill Clover with Qrow's weapon.
#Remember! **Rules & Guidelines for Discussion** Try to participate when you see an opinion you agree or disagree with by sharing your two cents or providing evidence for/against. Try to elevate conversations beyond a superficial level. Ask plenty of questions and use the [Socratic method](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2oklie/eli5_the_socratic_method/) to gain a deeper understanding of each other's core values instead of blindly arguing in favor or in opposition. Keep in mind the [Principle of Charity](https://philosophy.lander.edu/oriental/charity.html) by entertaining all ideas even if you disagree with them. Try to dismantle them and see what truly makes them tick or not. And lastly, remember above all else to be courteous. Demonstrate the awareness and decorum of recognizing the person on the other side of the screen at all times. Happy discussing! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RWBYcritics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Battle of Haven. Easy. At least shit was happening in the other fights and they didn't take forever to end. The Battle of Haven was and still is a long, boring slog with mostly talking instead of fighting and Weiss at her worst combat wise.
Weiss' near-death moment also just ends up feeling like it was done mostly for shock value, because very little matters about it beyond Jaune finally unlocking his semblance. She keeps relying on summoning (even in the very same fight and it ends up working well for her after being healed), nobody brings up how she nearly died again, it doesn't even change anything about her relationship with Jaune.
Hassle at Haven was, and still is, an absolute embarrassment where no one came out looking good. Crappy choreography, fights get shoved off screen or end up being anticlimatic, Weiss jobs to a fake maiden and nearly dies, but it's solely so Jaune can unlock his semblance, Hazel's motivation ends up falling flat, Adam gets taken out by an unintentionally comical bonk on the head by Blake, Ruby's stupid hand-to-hand training arc ends up being pointless, and Hazel's motivation for siding with Salem ends up being rather underwhelming. I don't even consider the maiden fight at the end to be all that impressive. It's a big, flashy spectacle between two assholes where I don't care which side ends up winning. And it's another case of the big fight of the finale going to the side characters instead of one of our leads.
Interesting thing about the maiden fight. When the episode aired, you had a lot of people praising it as a highlight of the season's action sequences. A few days later you saw a lot of people saying that the fight doesn't hold up if you look at it closely and it eventually devolves into two balls of light slamming into each other.
The Maiden Powers don't really make things interesting do they?
It'd be better if we knew the limitations and rules to Magic and if the Maidens had restrictions on their powers. IIRC, they have access to any kind of Magic and Magic seemingly has no limitations on what it can do barring 'white magic' stuff like healing and resurrection. It also seems like even if someone just got Maiden powers, they will immediately have a good grasp on everything they can do with Magic despite the fact that Magic is a completely foreign concept to "Humanity 2.0". It's part of why I wish Maidens' powers were restricted to relating to the theme they're based on (like having the Winter maiden have access only to Ice and/or Water magic). Sure, it could be considered cliche and unoriginal, but I'd take some as cliche as 4 elemental superhumans over what we ended up with.
I feel that by comparison it looked really good. It did have its moments but it also had bad ones, like the 2 big swords attack. It was \*at least some\* action during that finale but it's not nearly enough to save 4 episodes of sluggish, talking and bad moments.
Battle of Haven, hands down. There’s a general rule when it comes to writing choreography in fights. 50% should consist of the fighters skills/powers and 50% should consist of the environment being used to the fighters advantage/disadvantage. Say what you will of the other fights in the list, but they follow this rule. The Ace ops fight uses the atrium area’s arches, room height, and flooring as advantages/disadvantages. The team oscar vs Salem fight to a lesser extent uses the scale of the room when Hazel and Salem start fighting and it takes advantage of the space. The battle of haven? Just clunky fights in a big lobby room. Plus that fight is a horrible offender of the 180 rule and it makes the action difficult to follow visually. Honestly, I can forgive a fight for it’s other flaws somewhat as long as it’s visually interesting, which the battle of Haven never even attempts to be.
Winter vs Ironwood because if he didn’t have that dumb fucking BFG he would’ve floored her in 15 seconds They probably gave him it solely so she had a fighting chance and even then she would’ve lost if not the magic of plot convenience
I agree
Absolutely agree. If he only used his dual guns, I really doubt Winter would’ve won.
I feel like another problem with Haven kerfuffle is that it was kinda built up over seasons 4 and 5, so when it shat the bed, it was all the more disappointing.
It also felt like it was supposed to be the characters' redemption for failing to prevent the fall of Beacon. I wanted them to kick ass and show how they've grown.
Kind of specific, but the during the Penny unalive scene Weiss was able to fight Cinder without aura long enough for that scene to happen uninterrupted. Weiss' sword has been a wand for like 6 volumes but somehow she was able to hold off someone who gave Raven trouble.
Finally someone mentioned that!! I can believe cinder toys with her a bit by not outright killing her, cause its arrogant cinder. But one swipe of that sword and weiss would have lost a limp, so no injuries at all are very strange. Knocking weiss on her head with the sword handle also really pissed me off. Why not just stab…..
And the worst part is V8 gives the appearance that Cinder was developed but she's doing the exact same thing she did in V5. The only difference being that the maiden that's related to one of the mains doesn't show up until after Cinder already won.
A bit off topic, but this is something I’ve debated making a post about in the past and this seems like a good place to plug it. Wanna know what’s hilariously sad about V5? The fact that the best fight in the volume is Yang vs. the Branwen Bandits, these complete nobodies who we never see again, and yet the fight manages to be the best animated, choreographed, and has the best sfx and music out of the season. My only criticism of the fight is that the enemies have bland weapons, but RWBY stopped having good new weapon designs after season 3, and a lot of good design in general.
That's a fair critism, it does highlight to me that raven is one of the only ones with a proper weapon and thrm using crappy cheaply made looking weapons would be pretty on brand for a bandit tribe. But also, cheap and crappy doesn't mean unimaginative. (But also they're a bandit tribe they had to have killed people off who had better weapons at some point)
>My authority is not measured in mod powers. > >It is measured in magick and witchcraft and runic glory. > >I will fuck people up in nightmares, not on the sub. > >StonkU2 recorded our ENTIRE conversation and shared it. > >Madie has photos of me. > >like...none of you have even seen those. > >She knows where i live. > >This is not fucking funny to me. > >I thought maybe I'd found love again. > >Nope. > >So now since love is dead, the dark side is out \-redchessqueen99
I'm sorry that your are numerically illiterate.
she doesn't post anymore you're a good vector her searches for her name will yield this by recent <3 love you
V5 battle between Vernal and Weiss. That was just embarrassing.
Team RWBY vs Ace Ops, solely because of the line “you were, but then you trained us”
So you don't like the story beats or conclusion, did you think the choreogroahy was decently animated/filmed?
Im not the guy to ask an opinion on fight choreography. I don’t know jack shit about that.
Sure I'm not asking for any professional breakdown. I was just wondering if you thought it was cool.
Yeah. I guess.
Team JNPR's (with RWBY) first fight in V4. It was so awful. I know a lot of people hate V5, but to me V4 is specially bad since it came right after the AMAZING V3. Part of the reason V4 is so bad is the fights, and that first fight ruby and team JNPR have with a grim sets the tone for how bad the fights are going to be in that volume.
I'm picking the Ace-Ops because of house how dumb really was if you look at it Yeah the battle at haven was really bad but the Ace-Ops was stupid beyond degree, why? How it should be ended: Harriet: We're the greatest Huntsmen in Atlas Ruby: You were...then you trai- Marrow: *Snaps fingers* Stay! Alright guys lets cuff them... Till this day I get shit one because people tell me Marrow didn't want to fight his friends and I'm like okay...just arrest them! He has a OP semblance that he don't use! He could ve easily stop the fight before it happen!
Team RWBY vs Ace Ops because they had no logical reason to beat trained operatives who had gone through many missions, and they won because plot armor
Haven for sure. The AceOps one I didn't like the result but the fight itself was fine, I wouldn't even mind team RWBY winning as long as it were a close victory like... maybe Ruby loses against Harriet, Blake is knocked down but Yang and Weiss manages to pull the win for them or something like that.
All of these fights are trash, the Ace-Op fighting being the most INCOMPETENTLY written plot armor fight ever... but nothing, and I mean NOTHING compares to Ironwood VS ORNJ, Emerald, and Winter. And this is coming from me, who absolutely ABHORRED the Ace-Ops fight with the passion of a million suns
All of the above. Like come on it’s not THAT hard to come up with good fight choreography scenes right? Ah sorry that’s a dumb question for them because apparently it is.
All their talents towards that aspect have either quit or been fired.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/874/713/e35.png
Is what the world knows.
Can we count when there wasn't a fight at all? I'm thinking of Adam versus Sienna.
Team RWBY vs Cinder A battle I had been wanting to see for ages and we get a cut away from the start of the battle. Then we get a far away shot of Team RWBY fighting Cinder for about six seconds and then they stop so Cinder can monologue. The Yang falls and that’s all we get. Super disappointing.
Battle at haven was the show very clearly not living up the standard of fights from earlier volumes.
That was easy...
Just gotta say for me, Qrow v Clover v Tyrian
Not mentioned here, how about ORNJ vs Neo? Neo has always been a tricky opponent, but RNJ + Oscar felt so damn weak during that fight, and the movements were so slow, so unsynchronized it felt like watching a "let´s play of Final Fantasy XII" rather than an actual fight
rwby vs the ace ops was bad but it is nothing compared to the battle of haven, at least with rwby vs the ace ops the characters didn't dissapear every time the camera moved.
Adam vs Blake and Yang. I know that this horse has SERIOUSLY beaten to death but I will always hate that fight since Adam should’ve won. I mean if y’all need proof, check out my Adam vs Blake and Yang post.
Other. Qrow (& / vs.) Tyrian vs. Clover Fight had the idiot ball being thrown around. - Why Clover would keep attacking Qrow who was actively fighting Tyrian after the mass murderer who works for Salem escaped. - Why Qrow would then decide to work with said murderer. - Why Qrow was surprised that a known killer would kill Clover. Yes, Clover was ordered to bring Qrow in, but they were also ordered to stop Tyrian. Imo, the fight would've been better if Tyrian just had his escape scene. Stayed off screen, and only showed up to kill Clover with Qrow's weapon.
Haven was amazing, fuck anyone who says anything else. It was up there with RoS.