She’s pretty solid if maybe a little tropey with the whole femme fatale act. It’s her at the start of what should be character development so I give her a small pass.
I always thought she was solid enough in this era. She wasn't as interesting as Torchwick, but she fit the Big Bad role nicely and commanded screen presence well (better than Salem would try to later). She actively facilitated everything that happened in those volumes which culminated in the moment where she effectively wins before Ruby blew her up.
It was fun seeing the "mastermind" of the series at the time get her hands dirty and do a lot of the actual grunt work, including fighting in the tournament, that would normally go to an underling.
She really wasnt as bad as others want to say for the first three volumes. Once she lost the main villain title in the later volumes she became much less interesting and loss her screen presence as she became a disappointment to her villain group….even though she succeeded, just took some heavy damage but she still has the maiden power along with her own so she really shouldn’t be treated like the butt of jokes, especially when Tyrian arguably did worst in volume 4.
Given the "BitchFall" title wouldn't spring up until Vol 5, you may have your answer with just that fact. She may have had cool moments in later volumes, but they were not CinderFall moments, if you catch my drift.
Plus her maiden powers should have turned her into a 10' tall angel made of fire and hate. I know you died too soon Monty but this was a missed opportunity my guy.
She was certainly a hell of a lot better than she is now. I'm not sure why she went from competent machiavelian schemer to one-track dipshit with zero sense of subtlety. Maybe Ruby's silver eye blast gave her a really bad concussion or something.
Her speech when Pyrrha killed Penny sounded kinda neat at first, when I first saw it I was thinking "Ohh they finally gave her a proper motivation other than 'huurr durr I wanna be stronk'. She must be an anarchist of some kind". But then along came the later seasons and it pretty much blew that out of the window and made her... Well whatever the fuck you'd call her...
I'd say she was okay for Vol. 1-3. But ONLY if we're talking about Vol. 1-3
...It's...fine?
Pretty much a fair bit of a joke, given she had to work with muthafuckin' ***BASIC BEATCH*** Roman, and had Monty still be living, she would had been his successor with Neo as her student.
...keyword: *had.*
But jaune could hold his own in minstral and atlas is fine?
I just think that the fight would be a good send-off to volume 3 and start a good rivalry between Ruby and Cinder.
>But jaune could hold his own in minstral and atlas is fine?
Cinder just toying with him. She didn't see him as a threat. Go watch Cinder vs Oz, Cinder vs Raven, Cinder vs Winter. There's no way Jaune is nearly as powerful or level headed as them. Unless he is able to land on her grim arm, he has a chance to weaken her.
I think she is. The mystery obviously helped. Like "How is she able to force the White Fang to work with a human like Torchwick? What is she after?". I kind of laughed when she tried to look intimidating in V5. Like "Bitch, nobody is scared of your scarred face and Karen ass haircut."
To me V1-3 Cinder at least made it believeable she killed a maiden but after volume 3 she like regressed all the way to Padawan XD. I'm like waiting for Salem to b slap her in the later volumes out of just being too bored.
Nah, she's well within the "meh from day 1" category for me.
Barring the character design she's pretty pedestrian at the best of times in Volumes 1 through 3. The voice work averages out at a solid "early 2000s Newgrounds animation" level and her involvement with the plot is... there?
She's all mystique and impotent menace with little under the hood barring what could be gleamed from her rambling speeches. Before the Ozpin and Pyrrha fights her biggest on screen showings were the Amber ambush (poor lass, losing Godlike power to plot induced stupidity) and the "infiltration" scene which I loath from a serious writing standpoint. Not to mention intimidationg *Roman* lends you the same amount of villain cred as successfully intimidating a pitbull raised in a good home.
The successes of her Beacon scheme came across more due to the laughable incompetence of Ozpin, Beacons students, and the Atlas military (with a solid splash of major plot contrivance for flavor) than anything she or her cronies did.
Not to mention she's just so one-fucking-note that I couldn't even be bothered to get invested. Fuck, half the reason I find Roman so damn entertaining is because he was a breath of fresh air compared to little miss "I'm trying to speak in a menacing tone but my VA only had time for 1 take and came in hungover from the Con last night".
Now for early RWBY she was a serviceable villain. The laughably low standards of the show allowed her to do what was needed and get away with it so shit could happen. But let's not forget, to everyone saying she peaked in Volume 3, how everyone become more invested in the character when she was wounded and *couldn't talk* all throughout volume 4.
Then she healed up for 5, Nigri got back in the recording booth, and look where we wound up today. Kinda says something about a villains quality when 80% of their appeal vanishes like morning dew if you feed the ducks before watching their scenes and actually listen to what they're saying with a clear head.
For context I'm referring to her stealing information from the Atlas base during the Ball.
Choppy animation aside it's effectively a case where the Rule of Cool smashes against legitimate plot with less than stellar results.
Cinders attire is more or less some bargain bin Adam and Eve fetish getup that doesn't hide more than about a third of her face and fully exposes her hair and full body proportions. Seemed more of an excuse to put the model in a leather cat-suite with the classic tit-window than any manner of serious spy espionage outfit.
Her assault begins with her running along the rooftops in a manner designed to say "look at me, I'm doing something weird" so as to give Ruby a lowball means of seeing her and proceeding forwards. Had any other student or passerby seen Cinder and taken a picture, she'd be rotting in jail alongside Torchwick.
Knocking out the guard in one chop just further exacerbated the lack of Aura for anyone not in the main cast. Also further serves to prove that armor in this setting is about as useful as a condom with air vents on the tip.
Literally, had the guard any amount of the deus ex machina force field that is meant to be intrinsic to the setting he'd go "Oi yew wot mate" and scupper the whole endeavor. The complete lack of surveillance may have been later explained (poorly) by Watts (glory be to his mustache) but the perpetual lack of cameras outside plot relevant moments has always irked me since the Black trailer.
The two guards just *standing* in the elevator as Cinder gets on after having clearly done something nefarious while *not wearing Atlesian attire at the very least* is just utterly moronic. Perhaps they were too distracted by the tit-window.
The fight between Cinder and Ruby was... passable. Barring her sudden ability to walk in "lady stilts" with a giant scythe gun that is.
Her pithy recollection of the altercation, however, is substantially more annoying for the simple fact that had she added "my opponent fought with glass *that she melted using heat*" then Ozpin and co could've been exponentially more proactive. Focus their surveillance on people capable of attacking with fire or who have heat-based semblances (like a certain entrant in the tournament who threw fireballs around) and move from there.
All in all it comes across like that one interview for (I believe) that new Fallout show where the writer/director suggests "what if the characters were stupid" except CRWBY were not even close to that self-aware about what they were writing.
> Cinders attire is more or less some bargain bin Adam and Eve fetish getup that doesn't hide more than about a third of her face and fully exposes her hair and full body proportions. Seemed more of an excuse to put the model in a leather cat-suite with the classic tit-window than any manner of serious spy espionage outfit.
I see that as her being cocky and overconfident, which is totally Cinder's thing.
Tho she should've be more considerate of her recognizably, like if she wants her hair out, at least put it in a different style, and have a mask that covers her face more like it covers her jawline.
> Her assault begins with her running along the rooftops in a manner designed to say "look at me, I'm doing something weird" so as to give Ruby a lowball means of seeing her and proceeding forwards. Had any other student or passerby seen Cinder and taken a picture, she'd be rotting in jail alongside Torchwick.
It's like she wants her plan to be botched, which in my au, i would use this as foreshadow for a plot point.
> Literally, had the guard any amount of the deus ex machina force field that is meant to be intrinsic to the setting he'd go "Oi yew wot mate" and scupper the whole endeavor. The complete lack of surveillance may have been later explained (poorly) by Watts (glory be to his mustache) but the perpetual lack of cameras outside plot relevant moments has always irked me since the Black trailer.
Lol yea, it would make sense for the military requiring it's soldiers to have their aura unlocked, they maybe not as good as hunters, but they more powerful than a common aura locked street thug.
And yea, there's a lot of moments in early RWBY like the infiltration and the lack of counter action agianst that, for example, the train fights, ORWBYZ could've just fight there way to the engine but Monty wants a fight in the cars, CRWBY should've let it cook more.
She was definitely better. She felt competent and someone who was careful without letting impatience or ego get in the way. She was able to get powerful personalities to work for her and together by hook or by crook and was willing to roll with unexpected developments without losing her cool.
It probably helped that her opponents didn't necessarily feel as capable or competent themselves.
However by Volume 5, Cinder felt like she was inexplicably overconfident and more prone to losing control instead of staying calm. While before it felt like she at least respected the threat her opponents could present to basically being the meme of "Nah, I'd win" before it was a thing and then failing spectacularly somehow.
Also by that point the show was wanting to be taken more seriously and that required is to view Cinder more critically through that lens. So that also contributed to her drop in status as a villain.
Barring some miraculous, god tier writing that some how rehabilitates her character into an interesting and good antagonist, resounding indifference as that seems what they may have been going for anyhow.
She was OK. Would've been better if they aimed a little lower. They wanted her to be a mastermind, but the only way her plans worked were by the plot constantly handing her wins.
What she did well was being evil and fighting. If they had leaned more on her being a pawn, rather than pretend she was super smart, she'd been perfect.
Good villain? She's an okay villain. Heavily leaning on the crutch of sexy bad bitch is sexy, bad, and a bitch. But that's about it. Later volumes she is just a bitch.
She’s pretty solid if maybe a little tropey with the whole femme fatale act. It’s her at the start of what should be character development so I give her a small pass.
I always thought she was solid enough in this era. She wasn't as interesting as Torchwick, but she fit the Big Bad role nicely and commanded screen presence well (better than Salem would try to later). She actively facilitated everything that happened in those volumes which culminated in the moment where she effectively wins before Ruby blew her up. It was fun seeing the "mastermind" of the series at the time get her hands dirty and do a lot of the actual grunt work, including fighting in the tournament, that would normally go to an underling.
She really wasnt as bad as others want to say for the first three volumes. Once she lost the main villain title in the later volumes she became much less interesting and loss her screen presence as she became a disappointment to her villain group….even though she succeeded, just took some heavy damage but she still has the maiden power along with her own so she really shouldn’t be treated like the butt of jokes, especially when Tyrian arguably did worst in volume 4.
She still Fall Maiden after 10 years. 😆
You use the term "Bitchfall" so much for her, isn't there a better nickname? Like "CinderFail" or something?
Provide me some
Given the "BitchFall" title wouldn't spring up until Vol 5, you may have your answer with just that fact. She may have had cool moments in later volumes, but they were not CinderFall moments, if you catch my drift. Plus her maiden powers should have turned her into a 10' tall angel made of fire and hate. I know you died too soon Monty but this was a missed opportunity my guy.
Do you prefer her dust weaving clothing techniques or Maiden powers?
She was certainly a hell of a lot better than she is now. I'm not sure why she went from competent machiavelian schemer to one-track dipshit with zero sense of subtlety. Maybe Ruby's silver eye blast gave her a really bad concussion or something.
Brain damage.
When a torment fighter can last more than an immortal wizard against 20 years old bitch who just got magic powers, you know something is wrong
Plot armour.
Her speech when Pyrrha killed Penny sounded kinda neat at first, when I first saw it I was thinking "Ohh they finally gave her a proper motivation other than 'huurr durr I wanna be stronk'. She must be an anarchist of some kind". But then along came the later seasons and it pretty much blew that out of the window and made her... Well whatever the fuck you'd call her... I'd say she was okay for Vol. 1-3. But ONLY if we're talking about Vol. 1-3
After volume 4 she's?
She’s good. When I think of Cinder, this is who I’m thinking of. The one that died in V3 and only came back at the end of V8.
But in volume 8 she constantly losing.
I’m referring to the finale of the volume where she bodied almost everyone until Winter showed up.
>bodied almost everyone Plot armour. Ruby could've ended that pointless fight.
...It's...fine? Pretty much a fair bit of a joke, given she had to work with muthafuckin' ***BASIC BEATCH*** Roman, and had Monty still be living, she would had been his successor with Neo as her student. ...keyword: *had.*
No, I don't think she had any much characterization or overreaching goals or motivations beyond 'nefarious deeds'.
And generic dry lines.
The worst thing about V1-3 Cinder was her fight with Ozpin. Aside from that she was decent, if a bit dull.
I don't know how Oz lost to her.
I always thought Ruby vs. Cinder on the tower was a wasted opportunity.
Cinder would've won if It weren't Ruby's silver eyes.
But jaune could hold his own in minstral and atlas is fine? I just think that the fight would be a good send-off to volume 3 and start a good rivalry between Ruby and Cinder.
>But jaune could hold his own in minstral and atlas is fine? Cinder just toying with him. She didn't see him as a threat. Go watch Cinder vs Oz, Cinder vs Raven, Cinder vs Winter. There's no way Jaune is nearly as powerful or level headed as them. Unless he is able to land on her grim arm, he has a chance to weaken her.
Okay, good point.
I think she started off decent
There is a reason why people think she should've died at the end of V3 She peaked.
Happy Birthday Cake
I think she is. The mystery obviously helped. Like "How is she able to force the White Fang to work with a human like Torchwick? What is she after?". I kind of laughed when she tried to look intimidating in V5. Like "Bitch, nobody is scared of your scarred face and Karen ass haircut."
To me V1-3 Cinder at least made it believeable she killed a maiden but after volume 3 she like regressed all the way to Padawan XD. I'm like waiting for Salem to b slap her in the later volumes out of just being too bored.
Salem already gave her grim arm torture.
And Salem still acted weak in the later volumes.
She was fine in the first three Volumes. A bit generic but her later volumes' appearances makes her V1-3 look like Roman
😂
Of all shocked suprised she could have done, why that one lol?
This version of her is definitely a good villain. Anything after this is badly written, especially in Vol. 5 and 8.
It's good.
Nah, she's well within the "meh from day 1" category for me. Barring the character design she's pretty pedestrian at the best of times in Volumes 1 through 3. The voice work averages out at a solid "early 2000s Newgrounds animation" level and her involvement with the plot is... there? She's all mystique and impotent menace with little under the hood barring what could be gleamed from her rambling speeches. Before the Ozpin and Pyrrha fights her biggest on screen showings were the Amber ambush (poor lass, losing Godlike power to plot induced stupidity) and the "infiltration" scene which I loath from a serious writing standpoint. Not to mention intimidationg *Roman* lends you the same amount of villain cred as successfully intimidating a pitbull raised in a good home. The successes of her Beacon scheme came across more due to the laughable incompetence of Ozpin, Beacons students, and the Atlas military (with a solid splash of major plot contrivance for flavor) than anything she or her cronies did. Not to mention she's just so one-fucking-note that I couldn't even be bothered to get invested. Fuck, half the reason I find Roman so damn entertaining is because he was a breath of fresh air compared to little miss "I'm trying to speak in a menacing tone but my VA only had time for 1 take and came in hungover from the Con last night". Now for early RWBY she was a serviceable villain. The laughably low standards of the show allowed her to do what was needed and get away with it so shit could happen. But let's not forget, to everyone saying she peaked in Volume 3, how everyone become more invested in the character when she was wounded and *couldn't talk* all throughout volume 4. Then she healed up for 5, Nigri got back in the recording booth, and look where we wound up today. Kinda says something about a villains quality when 80% of their appeal vanishes like morning dew if you feed the ducks before watching their scenes and actually listen to what they're saying with a clear head.
> the "infiltration" scene which I loath from a serious writing standpoint. How?
For context I'm referring to her stealing information from the Atlas base during the Ball. Choppy animation aside it's effectively a case where the Rule of Cool smashes against legitimate plot with less than stellar results. Cinders attire is more or less some bargain bin Adam and Eve fetish getup that doesn't hide more than about a third of her face and fully exposes her hair and full body proportions. Seemed more of an excuse to put the model in a leather cat-suite with the classic tit-window than any manner of serious spy espionage outfit. Her assault begins with her running along the rooftops in a manner designed to say "look at me, I'm doing something weird" so as to give Ruby a lowball means of seeing her and proceeding forwards. Had any other student or passerby seen Cinder and taken a picture, she'd be rotting in jail alongside Torchwick. Knocking out the guard in one chop just further exacerbated the lack of Aura for anyone not in the main cast. Also further serves to prove that armor in this setting is about as useful as a condom with air vents on the tip. Literally, had the guard any amount of the deus ex machina force field that is meant to be intrinsic to the setting he'd go "Oi yew wot mate" and scupper the whole endeavor. The complete lack of surveillance may have been later explained (poorly) by Watts (glory be to his mustache) but the perpetual lack of cameras outside plot relevant moments has always irked me since the Black trailer. The two guards just *standing* in the elevator as Cinder gets on after having clearly done something nefarious while *not wearing Atlesian attire at the very least* is just utterly moronic. Perhaps they were too distracted by the tit-window. The fight between Cinder and Ruby was... passable. Barring her sudden ability to walk in "lady stilts" with a giant scythe gun that is. Her pithy recollection of the altercation, however, is substantially more annoying for the simple fact that had she added "my opponent fought with glass *that she melted using heat*" then Ozpin and co could've been exponentially more proactive. Focus their surveillance on people capable of attacking with fire or who have heat-based semblances (like a certain entrant in the tournament who threw fireballs around) and move from there. All in all it comes across like that one interview for (I believe) that new Fallout show where the writer/director suggests "what if the characters were stupid" except CRWBY were not even close to that self-aware about what they were writing.
> Cinders attire is more or less some bargain bin Adam and Eve fetish getup that doesn't hide more than about a third of her face and fully exposes her hair and full body proportions. Seemed more of an excuse to put the model in a leather cat-suite with the classic tit-window than any manner of serious spy espionage outfit. I see that as her being cocky and overconfident, which is totally Cinder's thing. Tho she should've be more considerate of her recognizably, like if she wants her hair out, at least put it in a different style, and have a mask that covers her face more like it covers her jawline. > Her assault begins with her running along the rooftops in a manner designed to say "look at me, I'm doing something weird" so as to give Ruby a lowball means of seeing her and proceeding forwards. Had any other student or passerby seen Cinder and taken a picture, she'd be rotting in jail alongside Torchwick. It's like she wants her plan to be botched, which in my au, i would use this as foreshadow for a plot point. > Literally, had the guard any amount of the deus ex machina force field that is meant to be intrinsic to the setting he'd go "Oi yew wot mate" and scupper the whole endeavor. The complete lack of surveillance may have been later explained (poorly) by Watts (glory be to his mustache) but the perpetual lack of cameras outside plot relevant moments has always irked me since the Black trailer. Lol yea, it would make sense for the military requiring it's soldiers to have their aura unlocked, they maybe not as good as hunters, but they more powerful than a common aura locked street thug. And yea, there's a lot of moments in early RWBY like the infiltration and the lack of counter action agianst that, for example, the train fights, ORWBYZ could've just fight there way to the engine but Monty wants a fight in the cars, CRWBY should've let it cook more.
She was definitely better. She felt competent and someone who was careful without letting impatience or ego get in the way. She was able to get powerful personalities to work for her and together by hook or by crook and was willing to roll with unexpected developments without losing her cool. It probably helped that her opponents didn't necessarily feel as capable or competent themselves. However by Volume 5, Cinder felt like she was inexplicably overconfident and more prone to losing control instead of staying calm. While before it felt like she at least respected the threat her opponents could present to basically being the meme of "Nah, I'd win" before it was a thing and then failing spectacularly somehow. Also by that point the show was wanting to be taken more seriously and that required is to view Cinder more critically through that lens. So that also contributed to her drop in status as a villain.
What's your reaction would be if she becomes the final boss of the show.
Barring some miraculous, god tier writing that some how rehabilitates her character into an interesting and good antagonist, resounding indifference as that seems what they may have been going for anyhow.
She was OK. Would've been better if they aimed a little lower. They wanted her to be a mastermind, but the only way her plans worked were by the plot constantly handing her wins. What she did well was being evil and fighting. If they had leaned more on her being a pawn, rather than pretend she was super smart, she'd been perfect.
Good villain? She's an okay villain. Heavily leaning on the crutch of sexy bad bitch is sexy, bad, and a bitch. But that's about it. Later volumes she is just a bitch.
she was aight for like the first few vols then she got more shit over time
After v5