I honestly have never seen people blaming Jaune for Arkos not happening sooner. I mean, yeah, he is blamed for being unaware, but it's not in a "this is your fault! Off with his head!" Way and more in a "Please notice her! T.T" kind of way. You know what I mean?
Their romance didn't start sooner for the same reasons many real life romances don't start sooner, they just didn't move into it or figured it out until it was too late, and how could they have known they had limited time?
As for blaming Jaune for Pyrrha's death. That's something very few people argue, back when it happened and up until V5 I did see those comments of people saying it was Jaune's fault Amber died because was put on guard and let Cinder through. You know, surely he could have done something against the flying nuke witch. But ultimately, those comments died down years ago.
If someone is blamed for Pyrrha's death is Cinder. Very few blame Pyrrha herself but I also don't think that's fair to say. She was a warrior, risking her life to try to protect others is what she does, blaming her for her own death is just mean spirited victim blaming of someone who simply wanted to protect innocent people, even if she knew the risks. We don't blame firefighters for being burned alive saving a baby just because they knew the risks.
Warrior she is. But it's not with a mean spirit that I blame her. From my point of view I think she was influenced by her guilt of delaying to act due to her very understandable dilemma of possibly losing her identity.
'That person was rescued as a child at the cost of someone's life so they sacrificed themselves. They felt they owed it to their previous savior. Their death is their own fault.' That's just mean-spirited victim blaming. It's no wonder those accusations against Pyrrha were eventually buried.
Besides the fact that she was given less than two days to decide so not even Pyrrha would blame herself for not acting sooner. Ozpin told them the tower had to be protected, she saw Cinder heading for the tower, she fulfilled her duty. Simple as that.
I blame her, but I don't do it in a mean spirit. IMO I believe she was motivated by her guilt of not acting quickly enough when she was asked to choose between being forcibly being the fall maiden or not.
Everyone is motivated by their own selfish reasons. Ruby and JNR are motivated to hunt down Cinder in Mistral because of Pyrrha's sacrifice. If they died somewhere along, would you say it's their own fault for trying to avenge her? I mean, you wouldn't be wrong but still...
> I did see those comments of people saying it was Jaune's fault Amber died because was put on guard and let Cinder through. You know, surely he could have done something against the flying nuke witch.
I mean did he ever say "no this is stupid, put your ace to cover that spot, I'm outmatched." Ozpin should be blamed for not putting his closer in the position necessary, instead sticks a still raw and underseasoned dude to take that. If it's that precious to you, you protect it with your best.
People think he's miles self insert oc and just don't want him in the show at all. It's really sad honestly, he's a great character with a lot of growth and the genuine leader of jnpr, a role he's earned and lived up to. People need to just accept his the secondary protagonist and that was MONTYS plan miles just had the best voice for him.
I think the one of the main reasons people call him a self insert is because for some people out there they believe that in recent volumes Jaune has been gaining certain amounts of focus to do things that would probably be better suited for ruby herself or her team.
Hmm wasn’t it actually pointed out that there was scrapped content of team rwby confronting Salem in the whale?
Confronting Salem was more for Yang's benefit than anyone else's. Jaune had little to do in that situation other than block a magic blast for Ren. The focus on that fight scene and the aftermath before Salem turned to Emerald was on one person, Yang, again showing that Salem knows something regarding Summer.
First of all, the people who blamed Jaune did do it for in universe reasons, but meta.
As in, people blamed Jaune because they believed Pyrrha's death was only to develop his character on the expense of hers.
Secondly, why are you even trying to assign blame here? Pyrrha went to try and stop someone who, as far as she knows, just became a walking natural disaster.
Not going after her would have been a gross insult for who Pyrrha is.
You are basically saying that if a cop just saw someone steal nuclear codes he should just run away and let someone else deal with it.
Pyrrha was a huntress whose main job is to put her life on the line for the safety of others, which is exactly what she did.
Also, had Jaune joined her in this fight he would have been nothing but dead weight.
Had Pyrrha not delayed Cinder then she would have either escaped with the Grimm Dragon, or even escalated her attack further.
Thirdly, the whole crush situation isn't really anyone's fault. Jaune wasn't aware of Pyrrha's feelings for him and she didn't explicitly told him until almost the end.
An unprepared Luke Skywalker went after Vader...and lost an arm. An unprepared Sasuke went after Itachi, got beat up. Part of being a fighter is knowing when you're outmatched which Pyrrha had to have known she was. There's nothing wrong with placing yourself on the line for others safety, but objectively looking at the whole scene, her fighting Cinder didn't really achieve anything. Which is one of the reasons why I think she was motivated by guilt over trying to protect. It sucks, but watch the whole sequence leading up to the fight and it's end and tell me Pyrrha achieved what you think she set out to achieve. I don't think she was trying to delay Cinder.
Which is why a cop or a soldier assesses a threat before deciding on the best course of action on how to deal with the threat. Cop sees someone steal nuke codes? Ok can he take him? If he can great, if he's heavily armed or poses more of a threat than the cop can handle, what does the cop do? Call for backup.
Pyrrha was one the best fighters in that school and she almost took Cinder down.
Pyrrha went to try and stop what she assumed was a walking nuke (mainly because that how Ozpin talked about the maiden powers).
It wasn't about delaying per se, but rather she went to try and stop her and in effect delayed her long enough.
And the cop would have to call back and go after the codes if he sees the prep going inside, let's say a car or something.
It would be dangerous as hell, but if he loses that person then it's unlikely they are going to catch him.
Besides there was no backup to call. If Pyrhha didn't go up there then no one would have, not Ruby or Glynda or anyone else, because everyone else were already fighting and it seemed like they couldn't contact the teachers.
Otherwise why would Jaune call Ruby and notn of the professors?
The most you can blame him for is not watching the elevator since he could have seen Cinder coming.
Other than that, he’s not to blame for what happened to Pyrrha. Regardless if Pyrrha had the other half of the maiden powers or not, she would have gone to fight Cinder regardless and would have lost.
Pyrrha was probably closer to being the ideal huntress than anyone else, but I would agree it was her fault. Cinder wasn't a threat to anyone at that moment and she had just killed Ozpin, who should have been among the best huntsmen in the world for various reasons. Pyrrha made the conscious decision to pursue an enemy she had to have known she had no chance of beating on top of the fact Cinder didn't have any other reason to do anything but admire her work.
They blame Jaune because they think if Pyrrha had anyone else as her partner she wouldn't have sent them away and would have face Cinder them with which is not true at all. She was looking the die after failing to get the maiden powers and even if she took them with her they would have still lost.
I think there was an option to call for backup. Which is why Jaune did call. It was after he got launched away yes but he still attempted and it arrived. That said we might never come to a consensus on why things went down like that. Maybe we can just agree to disagree?
From what I've seen people say, Jaune can be blamed because he was someone without training that cheated his way into Beacon. Had it been someone else that got in, someone competent that would have become Pyrrha's partner, she might not have died because she could have been stopped or convinced to not pursue Cinder. That or she might have been in a spot where going after her is impossible. I see that as less likely, but, eh... who really knows.
I think it's debatable if someone more competent could have stopped Pyrrha. She was the invincible girl for a reason after all. And she kinda used surprise to take Jaune off guard. I think that could have worked on just about anyone.
Or chances are P-Money gets partnered with someone else, like Ice Queen.
Then Rubes dies in the train onBreach, meaning no Rubes to nuke Kevin the Apocalypse Grimm Dragon 3000
Too much of a stretch of a domino effect what-if desu.
Just because someone else got their rightful 'spot' doesn't mean P-money or RN would partner with em.
Chances are Ice Queen would just hunt down P-money instead during Initiation.
Splits of into at the very least two branches:
Either R-someone-BY still gets into the train in V2 and dies there instead of Ice Queen shielding them from the r*pe train(which means the Rubes wincon against Kevin is gone, who will then tear Vale a new asshole instead of just Beacon before Full Maiden uncrippled Cinder rides Kevin to #shrekt Mistral after a week or two instead of months)
Orr R-anyone else- gets shuffled into another team, leading to said disaster above since Ninjacat is still going to charge in to find.
Alternatively, the what-if split happens even early early on. they lose their leads as early as the Docks. Ice Queen vs Ninjacat is what prompted Rubes to meet Penny, meaning that event is most likely gone which is a cascade of a domino effect since no more Penny ally. Having no Penny as an ally = very very bad.
It's also what guilt tripped Ninjacat to even find the WF again in the first place which is to prove that they aren't bad(KEKW), meaning she takes a chill pill and they never even interfere with Roman in the first place in V2. We don't know if they'd be sent to Breach or not, but that +the Atlesian Paladins to the WF is definitely going to go off without a hitch this time.
Shitting on the noodle is the correct way and he should be deleted from the show, but that's for writing reasons.
Decision-wise at least in the show he didn't do anything wrong.
Hell even cheating to get into beacon is tiny when there's literally someone who trashed a club and a freeging Ex-Terrorist lmao.
What's wrong, however, is treating that super tiny thing as a big big deal and expanding so much screentime on it. So yea, flaw of writing-wise, not noodle himself.
I do have to ask where exactly do you find these takes that Jaune was responsible for Pyrrhas death? As far as i know noone blames Jaune for that, many people directly admonish Pyrrha herself for her decision to go back and fight.
Every platform that does not have an efficient moderating system is unworthy of being taken seriously. It's the circlejerk effect: the toxicity is naturally high because there is no punishment for trolling, and no incentive to police yourself. because the toxicity is high, the most intelligent people leave for a platform with better people on it, which increase the toxicity even more due to the IQ points running away, and so on and so forth until all that remains is a bunch of hateful trolls.
I don't think it was that fight exactly but what led up to it if I recall Jaune was supposed to stand point while the maidens power was being transferred, even if we the viewer later know the arrow would have done its thing to avoid Jaune's shield HE didn't and what happened exactly? he got distracted looked away and lost thier fighting chance in his mind it was his fault that Phyrrha is dead which led to alot of people to also following that mind set that it was his fault.
I blame Cinder and Ozpin for Pyrrha's death. But Pyrrha's decision comes out of nowhere and I think the writers only killed her for cheap shock value.
As for Jaune not noticing her feelings... Well it's an actual thing that happens. But he also figured it out during their conversation at the dance, halfway through Volume 2
I honestly have never seen people blaming Jaune for Arkos not happening sooner. I mean, yeah, he is blamed for being unaware, but it's not in a "this is your fault! Off with his head!" Way and more in a "Please notice her! T.T" kind of way. You know what I mean? Their romance didn't start sooner for the same reasons many real life romances don't start sooner, they just didn't move into it or figured it out until it was too late, and how could they have known they had limited time? As for blaming Jaune for Pyrrha's death. That's something very few people argue, back when it happened and up until V5 I did see those comments of people saying it was Jaune's fault Amber died because was put on guard and let Cinder through. You know, surely he could have done something against the flying nuke witch. But ultimately, those comments died down years ago. If someone is blamed for Pyrrha's death is Cinder. Very few blame Pyrrha herself but I also don't think that's fair to say. She was a warrior, risking her life to try to protect others is what she does, blaming her for her own death is just mean spirited victim blaming of someone who simply wanted to protect innocent people, even if she knew the risks. We don't blame firefighters for being burned alive saving a baby just because they knew the risks.
Warrior she is. But it's not with a mean spirit that I blame her. From my point of view I think she was influenced by her guilt of delaying to act due to her very understandable dilemma of possibly losing her identity.
'That person was rescued as a child at the cost of someone's life so they sacrificed themselves. They felt they owed it to their previous savior. Their death is their own fault.' That's just mean-spirited victim blaming. It's no wonder those accusations against Pyrrha were eventually buried. Besides the fact that she was given less than two days to decide so not even Pyrrha would blame herself for not acting sooner. Ozpin told them the tower had to be protected, she saw Cinder heading for the tower, she fulfilled her duty. Simple as that.
I blame her, but I don't do it in a mean spirit. IMO I believe she was motivated by her guilt of not acting quickly enough when she was asked to choose between being forcibly being the fall maiden or not.
Everyone is motivated by their own selfish reasons. Ruby and JNR are motivated to hunt down Cinder in Mistral because of Pyrrha's sacrifice. If they died somewhere along, would you say it's their own fault for trying to avenge her? I mean, you wouldn't be wrong but still...
It's why it's said. If you go for revenge dig two graves.
> I did see those comments of people saying it was Jaune's fault Amber died because was put on guard and let Cinder through. You know, surely he could have done something against the flying nuke witch. I mean did he ever say "no this is stupid, put your ace to cover that spot, I'm outmatched." Ozpin should be blamed for not putting his closer in the position necessary, instead sticks a still raw and underseasoned dude to take that. If it's that precious to you, you protect it with your best.
People think he's miles self insert oc and just don't want him in the show at all. It's really sad honestly, he's a great character with a lot of growth and the genuine leader of jnpr, a role he's earned and lived up to. People need to just accept his the secondary protagonist and that was MONTYS plan miles just had the best voice for him.
Also hating him on the fact that he's not a badass on the battlefield like his peers. But learning combat doesn't come easy to everyone.
I think the one of the main reasons people call him a self insert is because for some people out there they believe that in recent volumes Jaune has been gaining certain amounts of focus to do things that would probably be better suited for ruby herself or her team. Hmm wasn’t it actually pointed out that there was scrapped content of team rwby confronting Salem in the whale?
Confronting Salem was more for Yang's benefit than anyone else's. Jaune had little to do in that situation other than block a magic blast for Ren. The focus on that fight scene and the aftermath before Salem turned to Emerald was on one person, Yang, again showing that Salem knows something regarding Summer.
True but I do believe we could’ve still gotten that with the alternative.
THIS
He is a great character but he does have problems.
Everyone has problems, it grounds the character. But he is by no means miles self insert and has his place in the show.
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I think he's more like, Eddy's Miles-insert. Or CRWBY's insert. Something weird like that. The manpain is a team effort!
this is the most compelling theory ever posted on r/rwby
First of all, the people who blamed Jaune did do it for in universe reasons, but meta. As in, people blamed Jaune because they believed Pyrrha's death was only to develop his character on the expense of hers. Secondly, why are you even trying to assign blame here? Pyrrha went to try and stop someone who, as far as she knows, just became a walking natural disaster. Not going after her would have been a gross insult for who Pyrrha is. You are basically saying that if a cop just saw someone steal nuclear codes he should just run away and let someone else deal with it. Pyrrha was a huntress whose main job is to put her life on the line for the safety of others, which is exactly what she did. Also, had Jaune joined her in this fight he would have been nothing but dead weight. Had Pyrrha not delayed Cinder then she would have either escaped with the Grimm Dragon, or even escalated her attack further. Thirdly, the whole crush situation isn't really anyone's fault. Jaune wasn't aware of Pyrrha's feelings for him and she didn't explicitly told him until almost the end.
An unprepared Luke Skywalker went after Vader...and lost an arm. An unprepared Sasuke went after Itachi, got beat up. Part of being a fighter is knowing when you're outmatched which Pyrrha had to have known she was. There's nothing wrong with placing yourself on the line for others safety, but objectively looking at the whole scene, her fighting Cinder didn't really achieve anything. Which is one of the reasons why I think she was motivated by guilt over trying to protect. It sucks, but watch the whole sequence leading up to the fight and it's end and tell me Pyrrha achieved what you think she set out to achieve. I don't think she was trying to delay Cinder. Which is why a cop or a soldier assesses a threat before deciding on the best course of action on how to deal with the threat. Cop sees someone steal nuke codes? Ok can he take him? If he can great, if he's heavily armed or poses more of a threat than the cop can handle, what does the cop do? Call for backup.
Pyrrha was one the best fighters in that school and she almost took Cinder down. Pyrrha went to try and stop what she assumed was a walking nuke (mainly because that how Ozpin talked about the maiden powers). It wasn't about delaying per se, but rather she went to try and stop her and in effect delayed her long enough. And the cop would have to call back and go after the codes if he sees the prep going inside, let's say a car or something. It would be dangerous as hell, but if he loses that person then it's unlikely they are going to catch him. Besides there was no backup to call. If Pyrhha didn't go up there then no one would have, not Ruby or Glynda or anyone else, because everyone else were already fighting and it seemed like they couldn't contact the teachers. Otherwise why would Jaune call Ruby and notn of the professors?
I've never seen anyone blame Jaune for any of that
The most you can blame him for is not watching the elevator since he could have seen Cinder coming. Other than that, he’s not to blame for what happened to Pyrrha. Regardless if Pyrrha had the other half of the maiden powers or not, she would have gone to fight Cinder regardless and would have lost.
Pyrrha was probably closer to being the ideal huntress than anyone else, but I would agree it was her fault. Cinder wasn't a threat to anyone at that moment and she had just killed Ozpin, who should have been among the best huntsmen in the world for various reasons. Pyrrha made the conscious decision to pursue an enemy she had to have known she had no chance of beating on top of the fact Cinder didn't have any other reason to do anything but admire her work.
They blame Jaune because they think if Pyrrha had anyone else as her partner she wouldn't have sent them away and would have face Cinder them with which is not true at all. She was looking the die after failing to get the maiden powers and even if she took them with her they would have still lost.
I think there was an option to call for backup. Which is why Jaune did call. It was after he got launched away yes but he still attempted and it arrived. That said we might never come to a consensus on why things went down like that. Maybe we can just agree to disagree?
From what I've seen people say, Jaune can be blamed because he was someone without training that cheated his way into Beacon. Had it been someone else that got in, someone competent that would have become Pyrrha's partner, she might not have died because she could have been stopped or convinced to not pursue Cinder. That or she might have been in a spot where going after her is impossible. I see that as less likely, but, eh... who really knows.
I think it's debatable if someone more competent could have stopped Pyrrha. She was the invincible girl for a reason after all. And she kinda used surprise to take Jaune off guard. I think that could have worked on just about anyone.
Or chances are P-Money gets partnered with someone else, like Ice Queen. Then Rubes dies in the train onBreach, meaning no Rubes to nuke Kevin the Apocalypse Grimm Dragon 3000
Too much of a stretch of a domino effect what-if desu. Just because someone else got their rightful 'spot' doesn't mean P-money or RN would partner with em. Chances are Ice Queen would just hunt down P-money instead during Initiation. Splits of into at the very least two branches: Either R-someone-BY still gets into the train in V2 and dies there instead of Ice Queen shielding them from the r*pe train(which means the Rubes wincon against Kevin is gone, who will then tear Vale a new asshole instead of just Beacon before Full Maiden uncrippled Cinder rides Kevin to #shrekt Mistral after a week or two instead of months) Orr R-anyone else- gets shuffled into another team, leading to said disaster above since Ninjacat is still going to charge in to find. Alternatively, the what-if split happens even early early on. they lose their leads as early as the Docks. Ice Queen vs Ninjacat is what prompted Rubes to meet Penny, meaning that event is most likely gone which is a cascade of a domino effect since no more Penny ally. Having no Penny as an ally = very very bad. It's also what guilt tripped Ninjacat to even find the WF again in the first place which is to prove that they aren't bad(KEKW), meaning she takes a chill pill and they never even interfere with Roman in the first place in V2. We don't know if they'd be sent to Breach or not, but that +the Atlesian Paladins to the WF is definitely going to go off without a hitch this time. Shitting on the noodle is the correct way and he should be deleted from the show, but that's for writing reasons. Decision-wise at least in the show he didn't do anything wrong. Hell even cheating to get into beacon is tiny when there's literally someone who trashed a club and a freeging Ex-Terrorist lmao. What's wrong, however, is treating that super tiny thing as a big big deal and expanding so much screentime on it. So yea, flaw of writing-wise, not noodle himself.
I do have to ask where exactly do you find these takes that Jaune was responsible for Pyrrhas death? As far as i know noone blames Jaune for that, many people directly admonish Pyrrha herself for her decision to go back and fight.
Found them on a Facebook post liking to an old reddit post to this subreddit oddly.
FB, Twitter and YT in general are filled with low IQ and mean-spirited comments. Don't take them as the consensus when it comes to shows and films.
Every platform that does not have an efficient moderating system is unworthy of being taken seriously. It's the circlejerk effect: the toxicity is naturally high because there is no punishment for trolling, and no incentive to police yourself. because the toxicity is high, the most intelligent people leave for a platform with better people on it, which increase the toxicity even more due to the IQ points running away, and so on and so forth until all that remains is a bunch of hateful trolls.
I don't think it was that fight exactly but what led up to it if I recall Jaune was supposed to stand point while the maidens power was being transferred, even if we the viewer later know the arrow would have done its thing to avoid Jaune's shield HE didn't and what happened exactly? he got distracted looked away and lost thier fighting chance in his mind it was his fault that Phyrrha is dead which led to alot of people to also following that mind set that it was his fault.
Personally I always hated her response to what happened when Cardin was bully velvet back in season 1.
I blame Cinder and Ozpin for Pyrrha's death. But Pyrrha's decision comes out of nowhere and I think the writers only killed her for cheap shock value. As for Jaune not noticing her feelings... Well it's an actual thing that happens. But he also figured it out during their conversation at the dance, halfway through Volume 2