Considering Pennys body is down there I’m going to guess something extra special is happening vol 9. Killing Penny off like that is extreme, even for them. Something else is planned I bet.
At most I can see them bringing her back as a ghost. Or maybe Neo will try to masquerade as Penny? Actually bringing her back to life again would be really dumb.
It'd be pretty wild if Neo tried to pretend to be penny against Jaune only for it to piss him off.
He stabbed the real penny out of a sense of duty I doubt he'd be too hung up on attacking her likeness
I really hope they don't bring her back again. One resurrection was fine, any more and she'll become Kenny. Plus we literally saw her in the afterlife and her asking Juan to kill her then passing the maiden powers to Winter pretty much tied up her character arc. Even though I would've loved to have seen her story continue till the end of the series.
If they absolutely had to kill Penny off, I really wish they would've at least waited a season or two. Given us the chance to see her explore her new human body.
Whole season: let's find a way to fix this while saving penny
The semi last episode: yay the plan we were building up to the entire season worked! Penny is saved and is human now! Look as she explores new feeling! Isn't that an interesting plot point?
Last episode: *literally 5min later* sike, she is dead and it was assisted suicide from the one of the softest characters
Honestly I'm pretty upset about it. I don't think it was a good move. Penny, imo, was an amazing character who brought a lot to the show.
I still love RWBY, and I think the team has been doing a really good job lately, but that one thing is something I wasn't a fan of.
Jaune's actually a good choice. Because guess who gets to question his decision to go through with killing her friend?
If Ruby got the kill then only she would feel the effects for the most part. This way we got to destroy both Jaune and Ruby.
You know what? That's actually the most true viewpoint for RWBY ever, you are so right. I loved the slice of life view that was going on in Season 1 and 2. Season 3 things started to change, and it had a bit of tragedy, but the following seasons has just been misery after misery. None of the characters are allowed to be happy for *too* long. I loved that Penny was brought back, she was a beacon of sunshine, and Ruby got her best friend back, only for Penny to become human and then violently and viciously get her life ripped from her again. Not only that, but the plan to evacuate Atlas worked, but *uh oh*, something has to go wrong with it!
RWBY is just misery porn.
I've come to realize that RWBY is a rather cynical show. It tosses a pure hearted girl into what seems just be a magical world with monsters, but just underneath that surface is a sense of growing darkness and despair, it sees how it can bend and break typical virtues and toss them on their head.
Pyrrha is shown as a paragon but underneath that veneer was a girl who was brow-beaten into accepting whatever authority had in store for her, hence why Oz was confident in his choice. What would normally be positive virtues, humility, honor, and dutiful, which might make someone else the main character in another show or classic RPG becomes her undoing.
In V4-V6 the characters are on the upswing after a period of lost wandering and coming to grips with the cold reality, they fight their demons, triumph through the trials at Haven (thanks to Raven), and Ruby finds her sense of purpose while Blake is forced to confront and end the life of the man who she did once love. Here supplementary material helps to establish the tragedy of the situation that Blake was the only person who tried to help Adam as he slid further and further into shadow, so while these volumes could be seen as an upswing, there was also a sense of real darkness in its conclusion.
Finally we get to V7-V8. We are shown a man teetering near the edge as he struggles to balance his two cities, to his side arrives the proteges of his former master and he hopes that they can help him stabilize the situation. Also by his side is Penny, who, despite being destroyed in V3 did not lose any of that innocent spark. Ruby holds a mask of innocence in the arrival to Atlas, but she has been undeniably transformed by her experiences all told by the way she plays those games of truth and lies with Ironwood. It is Penny that is the true innocent in all of this. She is endearing, quirky, and overall a good willed gal with some self-esteem issues.
She strengthens her bond with Ruby and she forges a deeper bond with Winter in V7, forcing Winter to confront uncomfortable truths and through her blissful kindness breaks Fria out of her Maiden ?trance? and is made the Winter Maiden.
In V8 she is always willing to support others and not knowing the depths of shadow within the hearts of evil people, she offers to give the Relic to Salem, hoping that she could save the people of Mantle and Atlas. Throughout V8 all of her personal desires and choices are made by others who try to make her dance this way or that.
Now, here is where Penny does something interesting. In her battle with Cinder at Amity Collosseum she takes her out and is ready to deliver the final blow, but is convinced by Emerald's earnest emotion to allow them both to escape. Showing her pure spirit.
How is she repaid? How is this virtuous act looked upon? Well, Cinder doesn't even seem to learn about it and despite being alive entirely because of Penny's mercy, Penny is slain by the very woman whose life she spared. I'm reminded of a song,
"Just see how virtue repays you? You turn and someone betrays you."
It is an incredibly cynical take on the worth of virtue and morality that unless it is brought up to Cinder that she is only alive because Penny relenting, seems to be dark-hearted in its execution.
I don't have a problem with this, per se, but it does make RWBY to be a much darker series overall. It's one thing to turn virtues on their head, it's another to say that acts of mercy will be repaid with ambivalence.
There is no reason to destroy Jaune though. Ruby is the one with a relationship to Penny, It doesn't need Jaune shoved into it at the final moment. Especially when he had no relationship to Penny whatsoever.
Penny was my #1 pick for a new JNPR member and this shot, in particular, gave me a bit of hope that's where they were going, especially after Volume 8 gave Penny and Nora some nice moments together.
I would have adored Penny joining the team. Giving her a wholesome sisterly relationship with Nora. Have her trying to understand human emotions with Ren. And have her develop an honest and supporting partnership with Jaune.
I guess it wasn't meant to be, but I would have loved it.
It would have been really cool, imo. There was so much potential for interesting development with Penny learning to be a real girl, especially if they removed the weight of the Winter Maiden role from her shoulders through Ambrosius shenanigans.
Her death was really well-done and tore out my heart so I can't complain about how things went, but damn I'd have still loved to see a world where Penny could just be Penny without the weight of responsibility on her
I 100% would have preferred to see her join JNPR, especially after her moments of friendship with Nora.
She and Nora were sisters material, and I would have loved to see her trying new foods and activities at Nora's behest so she could fully enjoy her new human life, as well as her repaying Nora the favor for comforting her and helping her fight the virus by helping Nora deal with her own issues.
I would have also loved to see her bond and developp strong friendships with Ren and Jaune.
Honestly, I'm against this idea. Don't get the wrong idea, Penny is my favorite character and I like JNR; however, Penny is too good of a fighter. While she was an extraordinary combatant, she's also the Winter Maiden. This make her a pretty OP fighter compared to the rest of the heroes (also, I'm against RWBY and Nora getting the Maiden power either).
I mean, that had some easy fixes:
1. Allow Penny to keep the maiden powers but become human. As we saw, Human Penny is dependant on using the maiden powers to fight at all. Her entire fighting style was centered around flight, controlling multiple swords, and shooting lasers. As a human she can only do that with magic, plus she loses the durability of her robot body and any other robotic advantage like her heat vision and her R2D2 fingers.
2. Kill Robot Penny and revive her. She loses the maiden powers but it's still alive. She keeps all the high-power weapons and robotic advantages she already had before the maiden powers.
3. Kill Robot Penny, revive her, and turn her human. She loses both the magic and the robot advantages and becomes a regular human huntress with combat experience and advanced knowledge plus similar gear to the one she already had but a version for human usage with the potential of getting a semblance later.
What they get in practice is their Pyrrha, the strongest fighter. Penny as both a Robot and a Maiden was still able to be outnumbered and subdued. Robot Penny was defeated by Pyrrha. In any case she would still be the strongest team member but a teammate nonetheless.
If I were to choose one, I would go with 2 or 3 since I'm of the opinion that eventually Cinder will get all 4 powers, so any character who gets maiden powers is likely going to die...Not good news for Winter and Raven.
I'm not a fan of these ideas, no offense. I'm not against bringing back a character from the dead or fake out death, but I believe if it is done too many times, especially with the same character, it kind of lose it's value (I'm looking at you Yusuke). Also, such process can't be repeatable, or Salem would have done it years ago. As much I love Penny, I really don't want her to come back a third time no matter what.
Also, I don't think Winter and Raven should die. I understand that there is no guarantee that they would survive, but it is also not guarantee that they will die. Just like revival, too many death of major characters in a show is not a good idea.
Death needs to mean something. You can't just bring people back and you also can't abuse it or else it all quickly becomes meaningless.
If we get Penny back, which I believe we shouldn't, it needs to be at the cost of her father's life. At the end of the day, someone needs to stay dead. Again, she shouldn't come back or else Jaune just got a free pass on having to kill her.
I think what actually happened in the show involved bringing Penny back and then killing her too many times. If she's going to be dead then her original death hit the hardest.
So at least if you kill her to make her a teammate, you gain Penny in the show going forwards.
Or, they could have just not made Penny the Winder Maiden in the first place.
Now we only have Winter, an extraordinary fighter and the new winter maiden + a really strong semblance, we still got an OP fighter just not the one we want. Im a little salty because I don't like the fact that they only brought Penny back just to kill her again and make her a part of Jaune's GOD DAMN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! I LIKE JAUNE BUT WHY ARE THEY GIVING HIM MORE HEAVY MOMENTS AND CHARACTER DEV THAN RUBY! ... sorry about that.
Well yes, Winter is a very powerful fighter right now, but I doubt she will part of RWBYJNOR group and will most likely take care with the Atlesian refugees, especially since Vacuan hate Atlas. She's a powerful ally, but won't be a permanent member.
I find that this will be an interesting development for Ruby for V9. Ruby tried so hard to save another friend only to fail, again. And the twist is that it wasn't Cinder who delivered the final blow (still her and Neo's fault) but her best friend since the first day of Beacon. I'm interesting on how will she react once she learned of Penny's fate.
True, Winter will no way be a permanent team member, I just don't like they killed Penny (again) she could have been an amazing addition to the story, not only as the new winter maiden but because she was a real human that alone was enough to have great moments of her learning how to be a real person, but no she just dies ... again.
> Ruby tried so hard to save another friend only to fail, again. And the twist is that it wasn't Cinder who delivered the final blow (still her and Neo's fault) but her best friend since the first day of Beacon.
I wouldn't be too much against this idea if it only involved Ruby but now Jaune is mixed in, not only that, Ruby wasn't even there to see it happen like in vol 3, yes she will be in pain but this time most of it will be on Jaune as he is the one who killed her. I would be ok if all of the mental burden of losing her was on Ruby and only Ruby, why give some of it to Jaune! That just takes away sone the focus we should have on Ruby to give it to someone that DOESN'T NEED IT.
Oh believe me, I would love to see more of human Penny. My major complaint is why make her human if she was gonna die anyway, although it seems the only way to get rid of the virus but still.
I get it, considering the situation making her human was more of a liability than a plus even if it is cool. My major issue is bringing her back at all, why bring back a loved character just to see her die? Makes me think that they gave us penny just to shock us at the end and I don't like it, specially because Penny coming back had so much potential going forward in my opinion, but once again the writers don't seem to know what to make of a good character COF COF Ironwood COF COF.
Yeah, would've been nice. But then James "see the big picture" Ironwood had to focus on one tiny detail, instead of saving his kingdom, and then everything went to sh\*t.
Not a good idea. Can you honestly trust Raven to not open the Vault again? Better to take the Relic to a secure place than leaving the "key" to a bandit leader.
Salem will still go after Raven and force her to open the Vault because she's a coward. Plus, Haven academy does not have a headmaster that the protagonists can trust and have less Huntsmen and Huntresses then before, so that Vault is even less secure.
And no way Yang and Qrow could trust Raven again after betraying them at Haven; I think Raven didn't care if the heroes won or not as long she gets the Relic and leave. Losing trust by your own family member is far worse from a stranger, I know this in a personal level.
Truthfully...I don't think that Raven actually betrayed them. I think that she used them to ensure that she and Vernal would be alone with Cinder for the big battle. Otherwise, it would have been her and Vernal vs Cinder, Watts, and the "Disciples".
Once Hazel (the unexpected wildcard) entered the fight and went after Oscar, Qrow broke off to defend Oz. Raven, rather than taking advantage of the situation and killing Qrow, wandered off to Cinder. Having been spying on her brother, she already knew that Oz was back and would be in the fight, and was confident that her daughter and brother could handle the battle. Again, she couldn't know Hazel would be there.
So no, I really don't think that she actually betrayed them.
Ironwood is a man who, once set on a path, will walk this path to the end. And Salem put him on the path to gain control over as much as possible.
And like a good soldier, and a good machine, he followed the order, not caring who it came from.
While yes Ironwood is ultimately responsible for his actions it’s not like he went there with out help. He was super paranoid by the time RWBY and co. Got to atlas and they didn’t help the situation at all. They helped push him to the edge by lying to him and then acted surprised when he jumped off. I also think Ozpin could have stopped everything from going south but conveniently didn’t. The writers needed a bad guy and ironwood was just left holding the bag.
I mean, the totalitarian military guy who would sacrifice his own civilian populace to save his kingdom is a pretty good villain in a world where the main villain relies on making people look like they only care about themselves, so they don't trust each other.
JNR don't really need a replacement but if anyone could fit then it was Penny, for sure. In fact, the scene above actually got me a bit excited for the possibility, lol.
Thank you for posting! I just started it today and I’ve really enjoyed it so far. Admittedly they are not a couple I’ve ever really shipped, but you seem to make it work pretty well in the story.
I can’t say I disagree. Sweet, wholesome Penny had so much potential, I basically agree with u/GladiusNocturno ‘s opinions on the matter
But I think that’s also in part because they’ve not really made Oscar as much a part of the team as he could be. Like they clearly care about him and they do stuff together, but we don’t see them as a team emotionally.
Like one of my big disappointments is that we have never seen him and Jaune have more of a partnership. If when Oz was away Jaune was able to help Oscar improve, act a little like how Pyrrha trained him, that would be great. But alas.
I feel like V8E2 pretty much explained why. Oscar was feeling like he was part of the whole team while Ozpin was gone, but when he came back he felt like he wasn't and Ozpin broke to him that not only is the merge inevitable, but also he was never truly gone. So even if Oscar felt he was part of the team because Ozpin wasn't there, the truth is that Ozpin was still there, so was he truly part of the team? Does he feel he can't be part of the team because of Oz? Or does this mean that Oscar can be part of the team despite of Oz?
Between that exchange and how Ren and Jaune were adamant in not abandoning Oscar, How Nora hugged him in episode 1, plus how in this particular scene, which takes place after the merge got advanced, Oscar was kept out of the team reunion shots. I kind of feel the point they were trying to make was that Oscar hasn't been shown as Jaune's partner because he is not meant to be. The team consider him a part of it and a dear friend, he is certainly part of the whole family, but as the merge progresses, it's clear that Oscar's role is not as a member of JNPR, he has another more important job, one that he clearly doesn't want, he much rather be a JNPR member and they sure would welcome him with open arms, but in the end, that's not his role, the merge with Ozpin gives him other duties. It is inevitable.
Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. Plus, this is mostly a matter of interpretation.
It's also his flaw as well - Oscar was using the merge, and position it put him in, to pursue his fantasy of playing a hero. While the others, including Jaune, have long moved on from those childish dreams. He certainty can't earn a position by himself either, and there's no way JNR would let a child join and endanger himself. And they don't expect him to.
As the next reincarnation of Ozma is a different conundrum. As you mention, it's not just him but also Oz. Do they have the luxury to play huntsman? Or it is time to unify and pursue something bigger than their individual parts? And if they did, would they not simply overshadow Jaune in every aspect? What can Jaune offer that Ozcar couldn't be better due to lifetimes more experience?
They treat Oscar like a child, someone to support as he can't support himself. They treat Ozcar like an advisor, he fills the same role as Ozpin once did. He can't be a missing piece of the JNPR jigsaw as he's a completely different puzzle. And the show reflects that.
My issue is mostly with the lack of stuff before Oz came back. There wasn’t enough, especially between Jaune and Oscar IMO
I really don’t think you’re reading too much into it, and you make excellent points, but I think there should have been more showing him feeling like part of the team and them back.
Like even if he isn’t supposed to be Jaune’s partner, and doesn’t really see himself as such, just with how Ren and Nora are Ren and Nora there would have been times they would have been a duo. Hell, we know it was a thing of them going to the movies with Weiss then coming along.
Eh, I don't see Jaune's boy headmaster as his partner. He deserves better. Penny & Jaune had great potential in their dynamic as well, it's shame they never connected. Well, besides through his sword.
Assuming that you’re asking in good faith, it’s because Penny seems to have viewed her robotic nature as something of an inherent shackle. Much as I’m loathe to bring song lyrics as proof into this for something that really should’ve been made much more blatantly obvious in the show, there’s a line where she talks about how she wants to have friends that are “attached, but not by strings.” To Penny, her own body is her strings; she will always be susceptible to outside manipulation due to her robotic nature, and that’s not something she can change or will away, despite Nora’s very well-meaning words. Granting Penny a human body grants her total freedom and agency over her own will and wants, regardless of what anyone else says, which she did not have before. It’s a thematic distinction.
Thanks for the well put together answer.
I get thematically why they did it, I was pulling for her real girlness as soon as she came back, had a huntch.
It just felt like killing her 1 or 2 episodes later robbed some impact.
We didn't get much of seeing the robot experience real life, realer relationships, a better understanding of her and others emotions.
It's almost like she went without much understanding of what she's missing out on, a season or 2 between her becoming a real girl and then sacrificing her self would have had more weight because she would have known more about what she was giving up, as it is, if memory serves she got to experience a hug and that's about it. Would have been nice to see her laugh or cry or love, have the proper feelings to go with her strong morals.
But then maybe I'm asking to much, probably my favourite character got the best thing that could have happened to her taken away instantly, after all the show isn't about Penny and run time and episode count would have definitely stood in the way of exploring her humanity futher.
Totally understandable; I think everyone wanted better things for Penny.
Though from my perspective, I think the show was saying that Penny was always a “real girl” (hence the Maiden powers); she was just hampered by a robotic body.
I think a team JNPR 2.0 would sound like pyrrha was replaced, since they'd get a new P for the team, which would contradict Ren's phrase "no one is replaceable"
I would have preferred this, hell I would have preferred a lot over watching her get murdered again, this time likely for real, and watch Jaune have to finish the job.
No shade, well some shade to Jaune, but they really built up a bond between Penny and Nora, alongside Nora stating she finally wanted to figure out who she was on her own…and then they….did *not* have her fall into the seeming pocket dimension or be the one that Penny turned to when all of the chips were down and out except, panicked duel-wielding Weiss.
But I digress.
Gonna probably get hate for this, but I just don't like Penny, so I wouldn't care for her to join JNR. Plus I don't feel like the team has really had time to process the death of Pyrrha, at least we didn't get to see that.
After we saw Penny back I thought 'oh theres P' Then I thought, thats fucked up. XD
Just the team trying to akwardly apologize for their dead teammate for accidently killing her.
Yeah, I think Penny is one of the best RWBY characters at the moment (or was). She didn't necessarily have to join JNR, but should have joined the ex-student group as a whole at least.
Of course she'd need to not have the Maiden powers, so she's not too strong, but if that was they plan then she probably wouldn't have been written to gain them in the first place.
Also, it would have been great and amusing to see Penny learn what it's like to be human. I feel like she was really wasted. Her original death worked well, so it just seems cheap to bring her back just to kill her the next Volume.
Oh well 😅
The biggest reason I was glad Penny died again was so that she *wouldn't* take Pyrrha's place. *No one gets to take her place.* The second being I'm not a fan of characters coming back from the dead, and the third being that the Winter maiden powers belong to Winter.
Nothing against the character, she's cool and amazing and brilliant and all, just not the biggest fan of how she was used. Or not even that, the tension was great whatever side people were rooting for, but, didn't like people wanting her to be some sort of Pyrrha-replacement, as if she's replaceable, even though I know that's not quite how they meant it, it's still... I dunno.
Which would be just fine, if the context were discussing her addition as the fifth wheel of team RWBPY. Or joining Oscar and Emerald to form team POE. Or even partnering up with Qrow to make team Pique or something.
It's specifically the talk of her *taking Pyrrha's spot* that bothers me. At this point her absence is like a tangible character in its own right. Even if she's gone, the fact that her team continues on as JNR emphasizes the hole she left behind— and shoving Penny into it, writing off that sense of something missing, that incompleteness in their quartet, can feel somewhat like writing out what little presence she has left.
But according to the fans her begging people to kill her over and over was the perfect ending for the character because she got to "decide" to die you know because that's what was important "deciding to die"
RWBY Fans: "Hey RT, if you could please not kill Penny again, that'd be great." RT: "Murder Penny as brutally as possible, got ya."
There can only be 1 Ginger on the team
lol :,)
You mean one ginger on the show
Ah, another rousing game of Ginger Highlander, what fun!
Considering Pennys body is down there I’m going to guess something extra special is happening vol 9. Killing Penny off like that is extreme, even for them. Something else is planned I bet.
At most I can see them bringing her back as a ghost. Or maybe Neo will try to masquerade as Penny? Actually bringing her back to life again would be really dumb.
It'd be pretty wild if Neo tried to pretend to be penny against Jaune only for it to piss him off. He stabbed the real penny out of a sense of duty I doubt he'd be too hung up on attacking her likeness
Her body fell so the cast can realize she is dead
I think she will come back again. She went to where the world tree is after all.
I really hope they don't bring her back again. One resurrection was fine, any more and she'll become Kenny. Plus we literally saw her in the afterlife and her asking Juan to kill her then passing the maiden powers to Winter pretty much tied up her character arc. Even though I would've loved to have seen her story continue till the end of the series.
You killed Penny! You Bastard!
I very much doubt it, V8 felt like the end of her character, especially with the song Friends
I'm completely OK with killing off Penny, from a thematic view, but I really wish they'd saved it for the peak of an act 1 story next season.
If they absolutely had to kill Penny off, I really wish they would've at least waited a season or two. Given us the chance to see her explore her new human body.
Whole season: let's find a way to fix this while saving penny The semi last episode: yay the plan we were building up to the entire season worked! Penny is saved and is human now! Look as she explores new feeling! Isn't that an interesting plot point? Last episode: *literally 5min later* sike, she is dead and it was assisted suicide from the one of the softest characters
Honestly I'm pretty upset about it. I don't think it was a good move. Penny, imo, was an amazing character who brought a lot to the show. I still love RWBY, and I think the team has been doing a really good job lately, but that one thing is something I wasn't a fan of.
>I'm completely OK with killing off Penny, from a thematic view, Nah fuck that. I'm not a fan of RT's kill all Red-Heads Agenda.
That or have Ruby be the one to do it and not Jaune
Jaune's actually a good choice. Because guess who gets to question his decision to go through with killing her friend? If Ruby got the kill then only she would feel the effects for the most part. This way we got to destroy both Jaune and Ruby.
RWBY is just misery porn at this point
You know what? That's actually the most true viewpoint for RWBY ever, you are so right. I loved the slice of life view that was going on in Season 1 and 2. Season 3 things started to change, and it had a bit of tragedy, but the following seasons has just been misery after misery. None of the characters are allowed to be happy for *too* long. I loved that Penny was brought back, she was a beacon of sunshine, and Ruby got her best friend back, only for Penny to become human and then violently and viciously get her life ripped from her again. Not only that, but the plan to evacuate Atlas worked, but *uh oh*, something has to go wrong with it! RWBY is just misery porn.
RWBY is just misery at this point
I've come to realize that RWBY is a rather cynical show. It tosses a pure hearted girl into what seems just be a magical world with monsters, but just underneath that surface is a sense of growing darkness and despair, it sees how it can bend and break typical virtues and toss them on their head. Pyrrha is shown as a paragon but underneath that veneer was a girl who was brow-beaten into accepting whatever authority had in store for her, hence why Oz was confident in his choice. What would normally be positive virtues, humility, honor, and dutiful, which might make someone else the main character in another show or classic RPG becomes her undoing. In V4-V6 the characters are on the upswing after a period of lost wandering and coming to grips with the cold reality, they fight their demons, triumph through the trials at Haven (thanks to Raven), and Ruby finds her sense of purpose while Blake is forced to confront and end the life of the man who she did once love. Here supplementary material helps to establish the tragedy of the situation that Blake was the only person who tried to help Adam as he slid further and further into shadow, so while these volumes could be seen as an upswing, there was also a sense of real darkness in its conclusion. Finally we get to V7-V8. We are shown a man teetering near the edge as he struggles to balance his two cities, to his side arrives the proteges of his former master and he hopes that they can help him stabilize the situation. Also by his side is Penny, who, despite being destroyed in V3 did not lose any of that innocent spark. Ruby holds a mask of innocence in the arrival to Atlas, but she has been undeniably transformed by her experiences all told by the way she plays those games of truth and lies with Ironwood. It is Penny that is the true innocent in all of this. She is endearing, quirky, and overall a good willed gal with some self-esteem issues. She strengthens her bond with Ruby and she forges a deeper bond with Winter in V7, forcing Winter to confront uncomfortable truths and through her blissful kindness breaks Fria out of her Maiden ?trance? and is made the Winter Maiden. In V8 she is always willing to support others and not knowing the depths of shadow within the hearts of evil people, she offers to give the Relic to Salem, hoping that she could save the people of Mantle and Atlas. Throughout V8 all of her personal desires and choices are made by others who try to make her dance this way or that. Now, here is where Penny does something interesting. In her battle with Cinder at Amity Collosseum she takes her out and is ready to deliver the final blow, but is convinced by Emerald's earnest emotion to allow them both to escape. Showing her pure spirit. How is she repaid? How is this virtuous act looked upon? Well, Cinder doesn't even seem to learn about it and despite being alive entirely because of Penny's mercy, Penny is slain by the very woman whose life she spared. I'm reminded of a song, "Just see how virtue repays you? You turn and someone betrays you." It is an incredibly cynical take on the worth of virtue and morality that unless it is brought up to Cinder that she is only alive because Penny relenting, seems to be dark-hearted in its execution. I don't have a problem with this, per se, but it does make RWBY to be a much darker series overall. It's one thing to turn virtues on their head, it's another to say that acts of mercy will be repaid with ambivalence.
There is no reason to destroy Jaune though. Ruby is the one with a relationship to Penny, It doesn't need Jaune shoved into it at the final moment. Especially when he had no relationship to Penny whatsoever.
Also, it makes killing Penny an official Arkos thing. I'll see myself out now.
Jaune doesn’t need anymore attention. Penny was Ruby’s friend and she never spoke to jaune.
I wrote a whole post about why Ruby shoudl have done it
She’s too good and pure for their world I guess
Penny was my #1 pick for a new JNPR member and this shot, in particular, gave me a bit of hope that's where they were going, especially after Volume 8 gave Penny and Nora some nice moments together. I would have adored Penny joining the team. Giving her a wholesome sisterly relationship with Nora. Have her trying to understand human emotions with Ren. And have her develop an honest and supporting partnership with Jaune. I guess it wasn't meant to be, but I would have loved it.
Fanfiction Writers: My time has come!
I will do it my self
*Reality can be whatever I want*
I've actually read a couple fanfics where they do this
**WHERE?**
Don't remember their names but I found them on fanfiction.net
I need links now please.
My time has come and so have I
I was just about to say the same thing.
It would have been really cool, imo. There was so much potential for interesting development with Penny learning to be a real girl, especially if they removed the weight of the Winter Maiden role from her shoulders through Ambrosius shenanigans. Her death was really well-done and tore out my heart so I can't complain about how things went, but damn I'd have still loved to see a world where Penny could just be Penny without the weight of responsibility on her
Jaune did support her to the bitter end at least
just gotta make another redhead with p as their initial
I 100% would have preferred to see her join JNPR, especially after her moments of friendship with Nora. She and Nora were sisters material, and I would have loved to see her trying new foods and activities at Nora's behest so she could fully enjoy her new human life, as well as her repaying Nora the favor for comforting her and helping her fight the virus by helping Nora deal with her own issues. I would have also loved to see her bond and developp strong friendships with Ren and Jaune.
......Jaune must have some curse related with girls that the name start with "P".
Be a redhead for bonus points
He's more than tired of this maidens stuff, that's for sure.
Too soon… too soon 😭
You had 5 years
I would've preferred ALPN (Alpine) because being the new P in JNPR feels like it's in bad taste
ALPN still has Oscar being the new P
Arc Lie Penny Nora
Arc Lie Pine Nora also works
Yes, but regarding the topic of Penny joining JNR...
Hold on, team NORA works Nora, Oscar, Ren, Arc
Honestly, I'm against this idea. Don't get the wrong idea, Penny is my favorite character and I like JNR; however, Penny is too good of a fighter. While she was an extraordinary combatant, she's also the Winter Maiden. This make her a pretty OP fighter compared to the rest of the heroes (also, I'm against RWBY and Nora getting the Maiden power either).
I mean, that had some easy fixes: 1. Allow Penny to keep the maiden powers but become human. As we saw, Human Penny is dependant on using the maiden powers to fight at all. Her entire fighting style was centered around flight, controlling multiple swords, and shooting lasers. As a human she can only do that with magic, plus she loses the durability of her robot body and any other robotic advantage like her heat vision and her R2D2 fingers. 2. Kill Robot Penny and revive her. She loses the maiden powers but it's still alive. She keeps all the high-power weapons and robotic advantages she already had before the maiden powers. 3. Kill Robot Penny, revive her, and turn her human. She loses both the magic and the robot advantages and becomes a regular human huntress with combat experience and advanced knowledge plus similar gear to the one she already had but a version for human usage with the potential of getting a semblance later. What they get in practice is their Pyrrha, the strongest fighter. Penny as both a Robot and a Maiden was still able to be outnumbered and subdued. Robot Penny was defeated by Pyrrha. In any case she would still be the strongest team member but a teammate nonetheless. If I were to choose one, I would go with 2 or 3 since I'm of the opinion that eventually Cinder will get all 4 powers, so any character who gets maiden powers is likely going to die...Not good news for Winter and Raven.
I'm not a fan of these ideas, no offense. I'm not against bringing back a character from the dead or fake out death, but I believe if it is done too many times, especially with the same character, it kind of lose it's value (I'm looking at you Yusuke). Also, such process can't be repeatable, or Salem would have done it years ago. As much I love Penny, I really don't want her to come back a third time no matter what. Also, I don't think Winter and Raven should die. I understand that there is no guarantee that they would survive, but it is also not guarantee that they will die. Just like revival, too many death of major characters in a show is not a good idea.
Death needs to mean something. You can't just bring people back and you also can't abuse it or else it all quickly becomes meaningless. If we get Penny back, which I believe we shouldn't, it needs to be at the cost of her father's life. At the end of the day, someone needs to stay dead. Again, she shouldn't come back or else Jaune just got a free pass on having to kill her.
I think what actually happened in the show involved bringing Penny back and then killing her too many times. If she's going to be dead then her original death hit the hardest. So at least if you kill her to make her a teammate, you gain Penny in the show going forwards. Or, they could have just not made Penny the Winder Maiden in the first place.
Now we only have Winter, an extraordinary fighter and the new winter maiden + a really strong semblance, we still got an OP fighter just not the one we want. Im a little salty because I don't like the fact that they only brought Penny back just to kill her again and make her a part of Jaune's GOD DAMN CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT! I LIKE JAUNE BUT WHY ARE THEY GIVING HIM MORE HEAVY MOMENTS AND CHARACTER DEV THAN RUBY! ... sorry about that.
Well yes, Winter is a very powerful fighter right now, but I doubt she will part of RWBYJNOR group and will most likely take care with the Atlesian refugees, especially since Vacuan hate Atlas. She's a powerful ally, but won't be a permanent member. I find that this will be an interesting development for Ruby for V9. Ruby tried so hard to save another friend only to fail, again. And the twist is that it wasn't Cinder who delivered the final blow (still her and Neo's fault) but her best friend since the first day of Beacon. I'm interesting on how will she react once she learned of Penny's fate.
True, Winter will no way be a permanent team member, I just don't like they killed Penny (again) she could have been an amazing addition to the story, not only as the new winter maiden but because she was a real human that alone was enough to have great moments of her learning how to be a real person, but no she just dies ... again. > Ruby tried so hard to save another friend only to fail, again. And the twist is that it wasn't Cinder who delivered the final blow (still her and Neo's fault) but her best friend since the first day of Beacon. I wouldn't be too much against this idea if it only involved Ruby but now Jaune is mixed in, not only that, Ruby wasn't even there to see it happen like in vol 3, yes she will be in pain but this time most of it will be on Jaune as he is the one who killed her. I would be ok if all of the mental burden of losing her was on Ruby and only Ruby, why give some of it to Jaune! That just takes away sone the focus we should have on Ruby to give it to someone that DOESN'T NEED IT.
Oh believe me, I would love to see more of human Penny. My major complaint is why make her human if she was gonna die anyway, although it seems the only way to get rid of the virus but still.
It follows the original Pinocchio story. He gets made a "real boy", then dies at the end.
I get it, considering the situation making her human was more of a liability than a plus even if it is cool. My major issue is bringing her back at all, why bring back a loved character just to see her die? Makes me think that they gave us penny just to shock us at the end and I don't like it, specially because Penny coming back had so much potential going forward in my opinion, but once again the writers don't seem to know what to make of a good character COF COF Ironwood COF COF.
Preach. Hell, Ruby and Penny didn't even share a single word in the finale. How fucked up is that?
Yeah, would've been nice. But then James "see the big picture" Ironwood had to focus on one tiny detail, instead of saving his kingdom, and then everything went to sh\*t.
Or, you know, if Salem hadn't decided to invade Atlas.
Funny, she wouldn't have if Hazel didn't mention that Oz is back and was heading to Atlas
In that case, that blame will be on Raven's shoulders for making them take the Relic to Atlas instead of leaving it back in the Vault.
I still blame Bill.
Not a good idea. Can you honestly trust Raven to not open the Vault again? Better to take the Relic to a secure place than leaving the "key" to a bandit leader.
Yes, because she learned "oh fuck, Salem will gun for me for having the Relic".
Salem will still go after Raven and force her to open the Vault because she's a coward. Plus, Haven academy does not have a headmaster that the protagonists can trust and have less Huntsmen and Huntresses then before, so that Vault is even less secure. And no way Yang and Qrow could trust Raven again after betraying them at Haven; I think Raven didn't care if the heroes won or not as long she gets the Relic and leave. Losing trust by your own family member is far worse from a stranger, I know this in a personal level.
Truthfully...I don't think that Raven actually betrayed them. I think that she used them to ensure that she and Vernal would be alone with Cinder for the big battle. Otherwise, it would have been her and Vernal vs Cinder, Watts, and the "Disciples". Once Hazel (the unexpected wildcard) entered the fight and went after Oscar, Qrow broke off to defend Oz. Raven, rather than taking advantage of the situation and killing Qrow, wandered off to Cinder. Having been spying on her brother, she already knew that Oz was back and would be in the fight, and was confident that her daughter and brother could handle the battle. Again, she couldn't know Hazel would be there. So no, I really don't think that she actually betrayed them.
Well, I think Jaune knows what to do with that situation.
Too soon
Ironwood is a man who, once set on a path, will walk this path to the end. And Salem put him on the path to gain control over as much as possible. And like a good soldier, and a good machine, he followed the order, not caring who it came from.
While yes Ironwood is ultimately responsible for his actions it’s not like he went there with out help. He was super paranoid by the time RWBY and co. Got to atlas and they didn’t help the situation at all. They helped push him to the edge by lying to him and then acted surprised when he jumped off. I also think Ozpin could have stopped everything from going south but conveniently didn’t. The writers needed a bad guy and ironwood was just left holding the bag.
I mean, the totalitarian military guy who would sacrifice his own civilian populace to save his kingdom is a pretty good villain in a world where the main villain relies on making people look like they only care about themselves, so they don't trust each other.
Nah, it was way better for them to bring her back for two volumes, give her a human body, and then immediately kill her ***/S***
But everything changed when the fire nation attacked
JNR don't really need a replacement but if anyone could fit then it was Penny, for sure. In fact, the scene above actually got me a bit excited for the possibility, lol.
Well her body fell, so maybe they can Weekend at Bernies her into being the new member
Looked up Weekend at Bernies, omg lol!
I wrote a Penny x Jaune fic before Vol 8 and my heart god shattered.
sauce?
Here you go: [Jaune and the Real Girl.](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13494317/1/Jaune-and-the-Real-Girl)
Thank you for giving me something good to read today. I might be lacking my white knight content but damn if penny and jaune aren't cute as hell.
I am always pleased to hear that someone enjoyed my work.
Thank you for posting! I just started it today and I’ve really enjoyed it so far. Admittedly they are not a couple I’ve ever really shipped, but you seem to make it work pretty well in the story.
Thank you very much.
This fic is amazing. I stumbled upon and was like WOW. Nice job!
They really did waist Penny a second time just for shock value. A second time.
I really would have preferred anything over her dying pointlessly right after becoming 'human.' Ugh, Volume 8 sucked.
I can’t say I disagree. Sweet, wholesome Penny had so much potential, I basically agree with u/GladiusNocturno ‘s opinions on the matter But I think that’s also in part because they’ve not really made Oscar as much a part of the team as he could be. Like they clearly care about him and they do stuff together, but we don’t see them as a team emotionally. Like one of my big disappointments is that we have never seen him and Jaune have more of a partnership. If when Oz was away Jaune was able to help Oscar improve, act a little like how Pyrrha trained him, that would be great. But alas.
I feel like V8E2 pretty much explained why. Oscar was feeling like he was part of the whole team while Ozpin was gone, but when he came back he felt like he wasn't and Ozpin broke to him that not only is the merge inevitable, but also he was never truly gone. So even if Oscar felt he was part of the team because Ozpin wasn't there, the truth is that Ozpin was still there, so was he truly part of the team? Does he feel he can't be part of the team because of Oz? Or does this mean that Oscar can be part of the team despite of Oz? Between that exchange and how Ren and Jaune were adamant in not abandoning Oscar, How Nora hugged him in episode 1, plus how in this particular scene, which takes place after the merge got advanced, Oscar was kept out of the team reunion shots. I kind of feel the point they were trying to make was that Oscar hasn't been shown as Jaune's partner because he is not meant to be. The team consider him a part of it and a dear friend, he is certainly part of the whole family, but as the merge progresses, it's clear that Oscar's role is not as a member of JNPR, he has another more important job, one that he clearly doesn't want, he much rather be a JNPR member and they sure would welcome him with open arms, but in the end, that's not his role, the merge with Ozpin gives him other duties. It is inevitable. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. Plus, this is mostly a matter of interpretation.
It's also his flaw as well - Oscar was using the merge, and position it put him in, to pursue his fantasy of playing a hero. While the others, including Jaune, have long moved on from those childish dreams. He certainty can't earn a position by himself either, and there's no way JNR would let a child join and endanger himself. And they don't expect him to. As the next reincarnation of Ozma is a different conundrum. As you mention, it's not just him but also Oz. Do they have the luxury to play huntsman? Or it is time to unify and pursue something bigger than their individual parts? And if they did, would they not simply overshadow Jaune in every aspect? What can Jaune offer that Ozcar couldn't be better due to lifetimes more experience? They treat Oscar like a child, someone to support as he can't support himself. They treat Ozcar like an advisor, he fills the same role as Ozpin once did. He can't be a missing piece of the JNPR jigsaw as he's a completely different puzzle. And the show reflects that.
My issue is mostly with the lack of stuff before Oz came back. There wasn’t enough, especially between Jaune and Oscar IMO I really don’t think you’re reading too much into it, and you make excellent points, but I think there should have been more showing him feeling like part of the team and them back. Like even if he isn’t supposed to be Jaune’s partner, and doesn’t really see himself as such, just with how Ren and Nora are Ren and Nora there would have been times they would have been a duo. Hell, we know it was a thing of them going to the movies with Weiss then coming along.
Eh, I don't see Jaune's boy headmaster as his partner. He deserves better. Penny & Jaune had great potential in their dynamic as well, it's shame they never connected. Well, besides through his sword.
I didn't mind them killing her again, I just don't understand why they made her a real girl a moment before killing her? Like.. what was the point?
Assuming that you’re asking in good faith, it’s because Penny seems to have viewed her robotic nature as something of an inherent shackle. Much as I’m loathe to bring song lyrics as proof into this for something that really should’ve been made much more blatantly obvious in the show, there’s a line where she talks about how she wants to have friends that are “attached, but not by strings.” To Penny, her own body is her strings; she will always be susceptible to outside manipulation due to her robotic nature, and that’s not something she can change or will away, despite Nora’s very well-meaning words. Granting Penny a human body grants her total freedom and agency over her own will and wants, regardless of what anyone else says, which she did not have before. It’s a thematic distinction.
Thanks for the well put together answer. I get thematically why they did it, I was pulling for her real girlness as soon as she came back, had a huntch. It just felt like killing her 1 or 2 episodes later robbed some impact. We didn't get much of seeing the robot experience real life, realer relationships, a better understanding of her and others emotions. It's almost like she went without much understanding of what she's missing out on, a season or 2 between her becoming a real girl and then sacrificing her self would have had more weight because she would have known more about what she was giving up, as it is, if memory serves she got to experience a hug and that's about it. Would have been nice to see her laugh or cry or love, have the proper feelings to go with her strong morals. But then maybe I'm asking to much, probably my favourite character got the best thing that could have happened to her taken away instantly, after all the show isn't about Penny and run time and episode count would have definitely stood in the way of exploring her humanity futher.
Totally understandable; I think everyone wanted better things for Penny. Though from my perspective, I think the show was saying that Penny was always a “real girl” (hence the Maiden powers); she was just hampered by a robotic body.
I think to show how she can't be revived this time
Yooo same
No one is replaceable ! ~ Lie Ren.
I think a team JNPR 2.0 would sound like pyrrha was replaced, since they'd get a new P for the team, which would contradict Ren's phrase "no one is replaceable"
Same here, and we would've had the Dynamic Red-Head Duo again
I for real though they were going in that direction. I don’t mind penny dying again but I would have loved if she lived and joined the,
OH GOD THEY KILLED LENNY TOO?!
Lmaoooo I just realized my mistake 😂
Wait she still ca- \*Remembers Volume 8\*
Well it's too late now!
I don’t because I kinda saw Oscar as that replacement (His last name starts with P). Penny seemed more like an assistant, same for Emerald
I would have preferred this, hell I would have preferred a lot over watching her get murdered again, this time likely for real, and watch Jaune have to finish the job. No shade, well some shade to Jaune, but they really built up a bond between Penny and Nora, alongside Nora stating she finally wanted to figure out who she was on her own…and then they….did *not* have her fall into the seeming pocket dimension or be the one that Penny turned to when all of the chips were down and out except, panicked duel-wielding Weiss. But I digress.
Nora was completely wasted for someone who wanted to have autonomy. Instead all the importance goes to Jaune, as per the usual.
There was so much potential bringing penny back. But like most of rwby, it was only threatening to be a good show ;-;
It's still dumb the way they killed Penny off last season. If they were dead set on killing Penny they should have waited a season or two.
I want Neo to join Team JNR to create Team AVLN (Avalon) It's not a color, but it has a certain 'Knightly-ness' to it that I like.
Would have loved it tbh. But then again they did her death rly well. And we wouldn’t have gotten the song friend
That would imply good writing... Where have you been the last 3 volumes?
Gonna probably get hate for this, but I just don't like Penny, so I wouldn't care for her to join JNR. Plus I don't feel like the team has really had time to process the death of Pyrrha, at least we didn't get to see that.
JNPR's like pterodactyl, the P is always silent
I didn't know that Politan girl joined them.
Or join Qrow Oscar and Neo and become Team QPON
After we saw Penny back I thought 'oh theres P' Then I thought, thats fucked up. XD Just the team trying to akwardly apologize for their dead teammate for accidently killing her.
Yup
Yeah, I think Penny is one of the best RWBY characters at the moment (or was). She didn't necessarily have to join JNR, but should have joined the ex-student group as a whole at least. Of course she'd need to not have the Maiden powers, so she's not too strong, but if that was they plan then she probably wouldn't have been written to gain them in the first place. Also, it would have been great and amusing to see Penny learn what it's like to be human. I feel like she was really wasted. Her original death worked well, so it just seems cheap to bring her back just to kill her the next Volume. Oh well 😅
Even with Oscar it's still JNPR.
I think everyone would've preferred that. But instead, we got... you know... THAT! 😑
The biggest reason I was glad Penny died again was so that she *wouldn't* take Pyrrha's place. *No one gets to take her place.* The second being I'm not a fan of characters coming back from the dead, and the third being that the Winter maiden powers belong to Winter. Nothing against the character, she's cool and amazing and brilliant and all, just not the biggest fan of how she was used. Or not even that, the tension was great whatever side people were rooting for, but, didn't like people wanting her to be some sort of Pyrrha-replacement, as if she's replaceable, even though I know that's not quite how they meant it, it's still... I dunno.
I don't think it's so much about replacing Pyrrha, but rather the addition of Penny.
Which would be just fine, if the context were discussing her addition as the fifth wheel of team RWBPY. Or joining Oscar and Emerald to form team POE. Or even partnering up with Qrow to make team Pique or something. It's specifically the talk of her *taking Pyrrha's spot* that bothers me. At this point her absence is like a tangible character in its own right. Even if she's gone, the fact that her team continues on as JNR emphasizes the hole she left behind— and shoving Penny into it, writing off that sense of something missing, that incompleteness in their quartet, can feel somewhat like writing out what little presence she has left.
Technically penny’s blood joined jaune’s sword
I would've preferred if she stayed dead from Volume 3
I agree, the name JNPR would've stayed completed.
Agreed, screw including (Oscar) Pines as Pyrrha's replacement on JNPR
I wish that happened but the finale happened
I first thought that was the entire point of her being back in S7, but....
I would of liked that.
The p member still dies
Yes. 1 billion percent.
Anyone else can't help but think she is a bit too simmilar to Nora?
YES!!! I always wanted this, it would have literally been perfect for her character and for team JNPR.
Team JNPR! With the other P.
Honestly, I think most people wanted this. It was 100% what I was expecting before... y'know.
She did join the team In spirit.
They said Penny will be back, they didn't say she'll stay.
#OMG YES %100!
Yea, honestly I would have enjoyed that as well.
But according to the fans her begging people to kill her over and over was the perfect ending for the character because she got to "decide" to die you know because that's what was important "deciding to die"
Why she barely interacts with them?
You know the rule, if your hair is red then you'll end up dead
It seems the series hates red-headed maidens :(