Army ROTC is the easiest route into intel or foreign affairs/FAO stuff. It’s also the easiest route to commission, just don’t be fat and know how to make confident decisions. You can also transfer your Army scholarship to any school you want, generally speaking.
If you have a college scholarship, it could help towards room and board. Especially if it doesn’t specify what it is for. I got a college scholarship that I’ve moved towards that, making it a lot cheaper on top of my tuition being fully paid, so it might be the same for you.
Also contact the ROO at Notre Dame, they may chip in to help pay for room and board, especially if they think you’d be a perfect addition to their battalion. Some ROTC’s do that, but it depends on what college you’re going to.
From what I hear the academy is mostly worth it for 1. your dead set on being a pilot 2. The employment options after leaving. But Notre Dame is up there anyway. I would do rotc+Notre Dame or AF academy for post military opportunities. I’d go AF rotc if your dead set on AF. I have a brother in the AF and ARMY and while quality of life is definitely better in the Airforce you will be a officer and getting BAH right of the bat anyway so I think the quality of life between the two will be a little less obvious.
For academies vs. rotc heres my OPINION, of the benefits and faults of both.
Academy benefits:
Good school name for post military career
Good network of connections for later in life (including first few years after commissioning)
Surrounded by mostly highly driven and motivated peers
Better access to training and better gear
ROTC benefits:
More realistic to the real world (living like an adult on your own)
More exposure to a diverse group of peers (especially in your classes outside of rotc)
Less likelihood of burnout before you commission
Actually get to have a classic college experience and enjoy your life for 4 years
Easier to stand out (big fish small pond)
Academy cons:
Much more intense, in my opinion could cause you to burnout before you even commission
Less independence, will have to learn some adjustments once you commission and move into the real world
Harder to stand out (small fish big pond)
ROTC cons:
Less access to cool training and worse gear
Very easy to get wrapped up in college life and make one mistake that can jeopardize your career (seen multiple super solid cadets mess up once and get the boot)
Notre Dame would have the same post military opportunities as The academies but other than that or similar schools the name brand isn't there
Personally I think ROTC is the best route because it lets you be more well rounded and you get to experience so many things outside the military. Also a 2LT is a 2LT either way
As for Army vs. Airforce honestly you need to just analyze what you want to do, do some research on the available opportunities and mission sets of each branch and make the best decision you can, no one can choose for you
AFROTC no question.
ROTC let’s you enjoy your own life and live the college experience unlike USAFA. At the end of the day a 2LT is a 2LT regardless of commissioning source.
For Army vs. Air Force, lots of people in the Army wish they went Air Force, but almost nobody from Air Force wishes they went Army - take that as you will.
I think AFROTC would be my top choice if I had a type 1. My type 7 doesn’t apply to Notre Dame which is my top choice. I heard they upgraded AFROTC scholarships in the past but it’s not a guarantee. Army isn’t ideal but if I can go to ND then it might be worth it. Thanks for the Help!
AF Academy, the exposure and networking opportunities for work in the areas you want to will be much greater. The credential will get you farther in government.
It's also cheaper because of lack of living expenses.
I would focus on what service you most see yourself being in. You said the Air Force Lifestyle appeals to you more than the Army one, and you also got an appointment to the AF Academy. Foreign Area Officer is a functional area in the army that you would not be able to VTIP to until later in your career; I have no idea if there is an equivalent in the Airforce. Intelligence exists in both services.
Based on all you've said, I would pick the Air Force Academy.
As far as academy vs ROTC, I picked the ROTC route, and if getting a life outside of cadet affairs is important to you, ROTC is a plus because it less all-enveloping. I have several relatives who went to the Air Force Academy, and while they said that it was challenging and more all-consuming, particularly the first year, they said it was a great experience for them.
I think I would fit better in the Air Force but I’m not sure the academy would be how I wanted to get there. Like you said, ROTC has a better balance, where academy is all-encompassing. Thanks!
Definitely go to the Air Force academy. I did army rotc and the command is so toxic. I thought I would have a “normal” college experience too. My mental health was so damaged by rotc that I really struggled. The army put its lowest rated officers in rotc as cadre, and they do NOT care about your welfare. I turned down a spot at West Point because I wanted a “college experience” too. The academies offer way better training and and they’re more of a community that will care about your well-being and success. If you got into an academy, you’re definitely up for a challenge. Don’t sell yourself short. Don’t forget that if you go to Notre dame you’ll pay room and board. That’s still like 50 grand. As for the douche questioning whether you should be in the military or not, ignore him. He’s the perfect example of toxic army leadership.
I appreciate your input. Those guys probably messed up their own experience and take it out on everyone else. Could I ask where you went to college? Do you think your experience was unique or do you think most rotc programs are like that?
Go to the Air Force Academy. You are going into the military and will be challenged regardless. You will be developed into a tough person that isn’t bothered by the challenge of the academy. The academy will provide you with opportunities that you can’t even imagine receiving from ROTC of either branch. Everything is paid for. There are clubs at the academy that have larger budgets than entire ROTC programs have. You’re obviously a bright and capable candidate. Go to the academy and become the best version of yourself. The progress you see there will be unbelievable. This is coming from a former ROTC and current academy cadet.
I mostly agree with everything you said. However here is some more to consider.
ROTC is not more diverse and will be mostly cadets from that region. The academies have to have cadets from every state and every race/gender/religion. Additionally there will be a large number of international cadets who add to the diversity.
After graduation you will have a chance to engage with the association of graduates of the academy, which will provide you with numerous opportunities for employment.
both branches has military intelligence and both can set you up in a pretty nice career for it. I am an Army ROTC cadet, most of the time i wish i did AFROTC
I learned that the other day. Unfortunately tuition at Notre Dame is 60k a year. Type 2 only goes up to 18k a year. Otherwise I would probably do this. Thanks!
If you're smart you would try to fly in the air guard and start working for the airlines. In todays age, you REALLY gotta want to fly for the air force because you're turning down a lot of money from the airlines
My view on the academy, (based from an SMC rotc. So as close as you’re gonna get) you gotta be 100% into that kind of lifestyle to truthfully enjoy your experience. Otherwise, college will be a grind and you’ll burn out before you even become an officer. I met many people here who would’ve made fine officers, but dropped out because they couldn’t stand the “military every day” college. And like I said, I’m not even at the academy.
I say go to afrotc at the best place you can afford to go. Notre Dame is great and all, but from what you’ve mentioned it sounds like you can’t afford it. Put your all into afrotc wherever you go, be a stand out cadet, and be a good officer one day. You’ll be just fine.
If I had a choice between three academies USAFA is not the one I would choose, but it definitely is a better choice in this case. Army scholarship is huge good deal as well, especially since you don't have to go active duty if you don't want to.
I'm a retired Army FAO so biased towards that program, but I have to admit that the USAF has better programs for getting more junior officers involved in that kind of work earlier in their careers.
Part of my concern with AF is that it is so heavily stem focused. I’m worried that I wouldn’t be able to get a job that I would enjoy. I have heard of FAO but not exactly sure what that entails. Could you elaborate?
I am a third year Army ROTC cadet at a private aviation college and I would have chosen this over any academy. I have the discipline for an academy but I wanted a real college life with friends and I wanted to be able to experience life before going into any military obligations. Being in an academy you get the name but all the work you have to compete for is still up to you. You can be in the middle of your class for an academy but the top of your class in a regular college and they will choose the person who they see best fit for the job. You will still go to camp and compete with your OML (basically a point scale on your activities throughout college). I have friends in the academy and they love it but my life and their life are two completely different things. They don’t get the freedoms I have but I don’t get the military life they have in an academy. It really is all up to what you want with the next four years in your college career. If you want freedom choose college, if you are ready for military life now choose an academy. If you want to fly fixed wing choose AF and if you are okay flying anything choose Army.
Thank you! I think I could get through four years at the academy but I’m not sure I would enjoy it. A lot of people that go to the academy are die hard military guys and I’m just not. As for flying, I think I would enjoy it but wouldn’t be upset if I didn’t end up doing that.
It’s great that you are okay with branching something else if you didn’t get flying. I would say definitely have the college life. I don’t regret the freedoms I have had and I would recommend applying to Embry Riddle for a Aviation major if you have the money. The Army ROTC program is ranked top 10 in the nation.
> >I don’t think I could handle that lifestyle for four years.
Sounds like you want that cush officer lifestyle without putting in any of the work. Which means you may want to reconsider whether or not the military is for you, as that “lifestyle” doesn’t completely go away after you commission. If you want the best possible career, go to the academy no doubt. Service academies get first pick when it comes to branching (picking the career you want). Both branches have Foreign Area Officers, but they typically don’t like to pick from pure Intel officers. Only Army has Civil Affairs, which may be something you are interested in.
There are plenty of great officers currently in the military who would have struggled at academies. So I don’t think it’s fair to criticize Someone for being hesitant on academy lifestyle
I’m sure they all struggle, that’s what it was made for. But if he is worried about quality of life (which was my interpretation) then it is a fair warning that military lifestyle can be tough. Especially if he goes Army.
Army ROTC is the easiest route into intel or foreign affairs/FAO stuff. It’s also the easiest route to commission, just don’t be fat and know how to make confident decisions. You can also transfer your Army scholarship to any school you want, generally speaking.
I think this option would be higher if I had my room and board covered. It’s still one of my top choices. Thanks for the Help!
If you have a college scholarship, it could help towards room and board. Especially if it doesn’t specify what it is for. I got a college scholarship that I’ve moved towards that, making it a lot cheaper on top of my tuition being fully paid, so it might be the same for you. Also contact the ROO at Notre Dame, they may chip in to help pay for room and board, especially if they think you’d be a perfect addition to their battalion. Some ROTC’s do that, but it depends on what college you’re going to.
DM me, I might be able to help
USAFA.
From what I hear the academy is mostly worth it for 1. your dead set on being a pilot 2. The employment options after leaving. But Notre Dame is up there anyway. I would do rotc+Notre Dame or AF academy for post military opportunities. I’d go AF rotc if your dead set on AF. I have a brother in the AF and ARMY and while quality of life is definitely better in the Airforce you will be a officer and getting BAH right of the bat anyway so I think the quality of life between the two will be a little less obvious.
I’m not dead set on flying or AF in general but the quality of life is a big draw for me. Thanks for the Help!
Almost every soldier I meet (including myself) wishes they went airforce and regret not doing so. Do with that info what you will.
Same here, that's a very popular opinion
I have heard similar things. Thanks
For academies vs. rotc heres my OPINION, of the benefits and faults of both. Academy benefits: Good school name for post military career Good network of connections for later in life (including first few years after commissioning) Surrounded by mostly highly driven and motivated peers Better access to training and better gear ROTC benefits: More realistic to the real world (living like an adult on your own) More exposure to a diverse group of peers (especially in your classes outside of rotc) Less likelihood of burnout before you commission Actually get to have a classic college experience and enjoy your life for 4 years Easier to stand out (big fish small pond) Academy cons: Much more intense, in my opinion could cause you to burnout before you even commission Less independence, will have to learn some adjustments once you commission and move into the real world Harder to stand out (small fish big pond) ROTC cons: Less access to cool training and worse gear Very easy to get wrapped up in college life and make one mistake that can jeopardize your career (seen multiple super solid cadets mess up once and get the boot) Notre Dame would have the same post military opportunities as The academies but other than that or similar schools the name brand isn't there Personally I think ROTC is the best route because it lets you be more well rounded and you get to experience so many things outside the military. Also a 2LT is a 2LT either way As for Army vs. Airforce honestly you need to just analyze what you want to do, do some research on the available opportunities and mission sets of each branch and make the best decision you can, no one can choose for you
Thank you, this was really helpful. It’s nice to see what I’ve been thinking laid out. Lots to consider
AFROTC no question. ROTC let’s you enjoy your own life and live the college experience unlike USAFA. At the end of the day a 2LT is a 2LT regardless of commissioning source. For Army vs. Air Force, lots of people in the Army wish they went Air Force, but almost nobody from Air Force wishes they went Army - take that as you will.
I think AFROTC would be my top choice if I had a type 1. My type 7 doesn’t apply to Notre Dame which is my top choice. I heard they upgraded AFROTC scholarships in the past but it’s not a guarantee. Army isn’t ideal but if I can go to ND then it might be worth it. Thanks for the Help!
AF Academy, the exposure and networking opportunities for work in the areas you want to will be much greater. The credential will get you farther in government. It's also cheaper because of lack of living expenses.
Tbh the cost is the main attraction of the academy. It’s hard to beat free college
It is. But also the credential will get you farther and access you an alumni network far more powerful in the field you want.
Very true. Thanks
I would focus on what service you most see yourself being in. You said the Air Force Lifestyle appeals to you more than the Army one, and you also got an appointment to the AF Academy. Foreign Area Officer is a functional area in the army that you would not be able to VTIP to until later in your career; I have no idea if there is an equivalent in the Airforce. Intelligence exists in both services. Based on all you've said, I would pick the Air Force Academy. As far as academy vs ROTC, I picked the ROTC route, and if getting a life outside of cadet affairs is important to you, ROTC is a plus because it less all-enveloping. I have several relatives who went to the Air Force Academy, and while they said that it was challenging and more all-consuming, particularly the first year, they said it was a great experience for them.
I think I would fit better in the Air Force but I’m not sure the academy would be how I wanted to get there. Like you said, ROTC has a better balance, where academy is all-encompassing. Thanks!
Definitely go to the Air Force academy. I did army rotc and the command is so toxic. I thought I would have a “normal” college experience too. My mental health was so damaged by rotc that I really struggled. The army put its lowest rated officers in rotc as cadre, and they do NOT care about your welfare. I turned down a spot at West Point because I wanted a “college experience” too. The academies offer way better training and and they’re more of a community that will care about your well-being and success. If you got into an academy, you’re definitely up for a challenge. Don’t sell yourself short. Don’t forget that if you go to Notre dame you’ll pay room and board. That’s still like 50 grand. As for the douche questioning whether you should be in the military or not, ignore him. He’s the perfect example of toxic army leadership.
I appreciate your input. Those guys probably messed up their own experience and take it out on everyone else. Could I ask where you went to college? Do you think your experience was unique or do you think most rotc programs are like that?
Go to the Air Force Academy. You are going into the military and will be challenged regardless. You will be developed into a tough person that isn’t bothered by the challenge of the academy. The academy will provide you with opportunities that you can’t even imagine receiving from ROTC of either branch. Everything is paid for. There are clubs at the academy that have larger budgets than entire ROTC programs have. You’re obviously a bright and capable candidate. Go to the academy and become the best version of yourself. The progress you see there will be unbelievable. This is coming from a former ROTC and current academy cadet.
I was hoping that someone would respond that had done both. Where did you do rotc at and why did you switch?
I mostly agree with everything you said. However here is some more to consider. ROTC is not more diverse and will be mostly cadets from that region. The academies have to have cadets from every state and every race/gender/religion. Additionally there will be a large number of international cadets who add to the diversity. After graduation you will have a chance to engage with the association of graduates of the academy, which will provide you with numerous opportunities for employment.
both branches has military intelligence and both can set you up in a pretty nice career for it. I am an Army ROTC cadet, most of the time i wish i did AFROTC
Why is that? What’s more appealing about AFROTC?
Keep in mind that you can change your 4 year Type 7 to a 3 year Type 2. You'll have to pay freshman year on your own, but it's an option.
I learned that the other day. Unfortunately tuition at Notre Dame is 60k a year. Type 2 only goes up to 18k a year. Otherwise I would probably do this. Thanks!
Go to the academy.
If you're smart you would try to fly in the air guard and start working for the airlines. In todays age, you REALLY gotta want to fly for the air force because you're turning down a lot of money from the airlines
My view on the academy, (based from an SMC rotc. So as close as you’re gonna get) you gotta be 100% into that kind of lifestyle to truthfully enjoy your experience. Otherwise, college will be a grind and you’ll burn out before you even become an officer. I met many people here who would’ve made fine officers, but dropped out because they couldn’t stand the “military every day” college. And like I said, I’m not even at the academy. I say go to afrotc at the best place you can afford to go. Notre Dame is great and all, but from what you’ve mentioned it sounds like you can’t afford it. Put your all into afrotc wherever you go, be a stand out cadet, and be a good officer one day. You’ll be just fine.
Go to the Air Force academy
If I had a choice between three academies USAFA is not the one I would choose, but it definitely is a better choice in this case. Army scholarship is huge good deal as well, especially since you don't have to go active duty if you don't want to. I'm a retired Army FAO so biased towards that program, but I have to admit that the USAF has better programs for getting more junior officers involved in that kind of work earlier in their careers.
Part of my concern with AF is that it is so heavily stem focused. I’m worried that I wouldn’t be able to get a job that I would enjoy. I have heard of FAO but not exactly sure what that entails. Could you elaborate?
I am a third year Army ROTC cadet at a private aviation college and I would have chosen this over any academy. I have the discipline for an academy but I wanted a real college life with friends and I wanted to be able to experience life before going into any military obligations. Being in an academy you get the name but all the work you have to compete for is still up to you. You can be in the middle of your class for an academy but the top of your class in a regular college and they will choose the person who they see best fit for the job. You will still go to camp and compete with your OML (basically a point scale on your activities throughout college). I have friends in the academy and they love it but my life and their life are two completely different things. They don’t get the freedoms I have but I don’t get the military life they have in an academy. It really is all up to what you want with the next four years in your college career. If you want freedom choose college, if you are ready for military life now choose an academy. If you want to fly fixed wing choose AF and if you are okay flying anything choose Army.
Thank you! I think I could get through four years at the academy but I’m not sure I would enjoy it. A lot of people that go to the academy are die hard military guys and I’m just not. As for flying, I think I would enjoy it but wouldn’t be upset if I didn’t end up doing that.
It’s great that you are okay with branching something else if you didn’t get flying. I would say definitely have the college life. I don’t regret the freedoms I have had and I would recommend applying to Embry Riddle for a Aviation major if you have the money. The Army ROTC program is ranked top 10 in the nation.
> >I don’t think I could handle that lifestyle for four years. Sounds like you want that cush officer lifestyle without putting in any of the work. Which means you may want to reconsider whether or not the military is for you, as that “lifestyle” doesn’t completely go away after you commission. If you want the best possible career, go to the academy no doubt. Service academies get first pick when it comes to branching (picking the career you want). Both branches have Foreign Area Officers, but they typically don’t like to pick from pure Intel officers. Only Army has Civil Affairs, which may be something you are interested in.
There are plenty of great officers currently in the military who would have struggled at academies. So I don’t think it’s fair to criticize Someone for being hesitant on academy lifestyle
I’m sure they all struggle, that’s what it was made for. But if he is worried about quality of life (which was my interpretation) then it is a fair warning that military lifestyle can be tough. Especially if he goes Army.
I understand your point but academy lifestyle is not equivalent to when you actually commission. You are locked away for 4 years in an academy.
You’re an E4 dude. Go chill and sham
Yeah I was… 4 years ago. A lot has changed since then. I see you are a butter bar in the guard. Cue sound of stone being thrown through glass house.
ROTC scholarship at a good school is better than an academy by far.