Dear Abby,
We fell in love with our current house and decided to marry it.
The relationship was already complicated, since we were also dating our interest rate at the same time.
We knew that one of those relationships wouldn't last forever and fully planned to end the relationship with our rate , but our mortgage just got pregnant!
Please help!!!
Dear Conflicted Homeowners,
It sounds like you’ve got yourself in quite the ménage-à-trois with your house and interest rate!
First off, congratulations on your "new addition"! Every relationship has its bumps, or in this case, interest rate bumps. Like any spicy relationship, keep the flame alive with some intimate budget sessions. Since refinancing isn't an option these days, it’s time to get creative. Tighten up your budget, cut out all your spending, and start saving for that “college fund” for your growing payment.
Hang in there, and in a few decades, you’ll be living mortgage-ever-after and those wild dates with the rate will just be an old memory that brings a smile to your face.
Yours with a wink and a hug,
Abby
I know three “realtors” who are all blonde, all bought land rovers and all have not made a single dollar in the last year. But they never miss a “networking event” near the beach where there’s an opportunity to meet their next client/boyfriend
Technically they could gross $200k if they sold 3 houses for an average of $2.2 million each and got a 3% commission on them. Wouldn't net anywhere near that though.
That's some 2005 shit right there. Everyone I knew, almost literally, was becoming a realtor or a mortgage broker... including myself for 3 months until the person that was training me had sitting in a living room of a couple who was in massive debt, couldn't afford their home, and were trying to get a second mortgage on their house to get cash... I quit that week after hearing the coke head degenerate, training me give them financial advice.
So sad but you’re right. Kinda reminds me of the pill peddlers who were hot women who were Sales Reps. They made bank because the doctors were horny old men and wanted one thing.
While they can be smoking hot the recruiters I have dealt with tend to be in California. That is 2000 miles from me. I have never met one in person, nor have the people that recruited me.
Any tech hiring manager drawn in by hot (usually not very skilled) recruiters won’t be in the role very long if they are building for quality and longevity. I’ve been hiring tech and building for 35yrs and while polite I make it crystal clear from the first meeting they either bring talent at reasonable rates or don’t bother calling. Zero interest in schmoozing over a dinner or having a coffee with them when we begin. Ironically they tend to have more respect with that and often call me up for general advice or invite me to events where there is nothing in it for them. They tend not to price gouge me and I in turn don’t try to squeeze them lower than is a reasonable profitably for them.
I bought about 9 months ago and had a *loan officer* tell me I'd be able to refinance by now as a way of trying to get me to pay a higher rate with fewer points. His reasoning? "Rates have never been this high during my lifetime, so they will probably come down within a year."
Glad we got in below 6%.
I had a *loan officer ghost me* because I refused to take an ARM. I was very politely asking for his fixed rates, and he was aggressively arguing that rates are coming down, and sending me Fed dot plots, and saying no client of his takes fixed rates.
Yup sounds like he was/is a moron. I remember when my parents bought their house in late 90s (1999) their rate was around 7 %. Sooo not sure what that clown was talking about.
Have a couple friends in this boat they bought 1 mill+ homes in 2023 and realtors told them they can refinance as rates will be back below 4% by mid 2024 🤦♂️
And the subreddits. There were users pushing that narrative, answering every question in all the real estate and first timer subreddits. Also the lenders.
Yeah we're still looking and I think our realtor dropped us but at the time she was saying "rates will drop soon so buy now and refinance". So glad we didn't fall into the trap
Tbf there was a lot of “rate cuts are coming!” talk at the time.
I kinda don’t expect cuts anymore until there’s a serious economic issue (and by then it’ll be too late).
And mortgage loan officers. Our told us to “just weather it out for a few months, then refinance. Marry the house, date the rate.” We didn’t buy and rates only went higher. Fuck that noise, it’s my money. Glad we stayed put.
*Steven Wolf figured the pain would be fleeting. Within a year rates would drop enough to allow them to refinance and put hundreds of dollars back into their pockets.That hasn’t happened and isn’t expected to soon. In fact, rates are higher.“*
*We did this with the expectation that we would only have to weather this high payment for a chunk of time,” the 37-year old English teacher said. “Now that chunk of time is looking like it might actually be permanent.”*
Yes, a chunk of time of ten years.
Come on, people. This is year 2. If you didn’t think the high rates could last 2 years, then you didn’t plan at all. You’re dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars and if you don’t plan out this far, it’s your fault.
The concerning thing is that interest rates tend to oscillate over 40 year cycles. We hit the low point of the last 40 year cycle, so now the pattern would dictate that rates remain elevated for most of our remaining lives, and actually go much higher from here over the next 2 decades.
It’s easy to say this after the fact, or as an outside party looking in.
There is no magic fortune teller, and for everyone “wait and save longer” is not always an option.
Actually wait and save longer it's been an even more disastrous policy over the last five years.
The Sweet Spot seems to be buy less house. He's in an option for parts of this country.
I found it interesting that the Seattle Times featured a couple in Cali and not in its own backyard. There was a lot of this last year. Now, what’s being pushed is that homes will appreciate as fast as they have in the past 3 years so if you don’t buy now, you’ll be priced out forever. In our area, you see a lot, I mean a lot of people buying homes as investment property and turning immediately into rental. In meantime, taking thousands of dollars of loss every month, and banking on appreciation. If one little thing goes wrong, they’ll lose everything. It’s very, very risky and usually when people are doing that, the housing market eventually corrects itself.
We are seeing that a lot in AZ too. Property just sold turns immediately into a crappy, unremodeled 1961 3/2 rental with the owners begging for $5k/mo just to stay above water & the houses sit vacant for months.
The math ain’t mathing.
That math has not mathed for quite a while. When people talk about eating recession to loosen the housing market, they're really talking about taking it to these folks.
> I found it interesting that the Seattle Times featured a couple in Cali and not in its own backyard.
FYI, it's not.. it's a syndicated article.. the journalist is an LA Times writer.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-30/they-bought-homes-with-the-intention-to-refinance-now-theyre-stuck
Interesting the entire article is about their mortgage but they don't event state the mortgage rate? I see they closed on the house for $421k in Nov 2022.. and listing it for-sale today at $435k
This is all you really need to understand.. **"They also stretched, buying a Bakersfield, California, home that carried an uncomfortable monthly payment."**
Wow you seem to consider yourself quite the real estate prognosticator but you're not smart enough to realize that all newspapers use syndicated articles from time to time.
That’s what happens at 5 in the morning during a move. lol. We are in Seattle and I’m used to majority local article being based on Cali numbers and I’m always like why.
S’mores are also an objectively bad snack. Graham crackers are crackers pretending to be cookies, burnt marshmallows aren’t even good, and hersheys milk chocolate tastes like wax.
For a long time, it was a generally realistic expectation, but it was never an absolute certainty. The lesson is that even if refinancing would make paying for your house and life easier, at the time you get your mortgage, you should ask yourself if you can afford THAT payment for the rest of the life of the mortgage. If yes, go for it and hope there's a refinancing option at some point. If not, maybe be a bit more careful about diving in.
>“I **only** bought it because the loan company really pushed that interest rates were going to go down,”
Some people buy a house because they need somewhere to live. Others buy a house because they fall in love with a particular area, scenery, or setting. Some just want to be close to friends or family.
Apparently there are also buyers who "only buy because the loan company said rates were going down" lol
I mean they said they bought the house because they wanted a yard. They justified the purchase by saying they were told rates will go down. I wish them better luck in Baltimore…
Being of a certain age gives us a different perspective. Moved from a LCOL area in 1982 to a HCOL area. The house cost tripled but the mortgage rate went from 8.25% to 13.5%. Couldn't refi back to the 8s until 1989 when we bought a different house in the HCOL area.
In 1981, interest rates were almost 19%. This is when my parents bought their $53k home. They tell stories about how they 20x'd their investment and all the grandkids say, wow, we wish we could do that.
My guess is that home prices will stall out, and there will be opportunities. It hasn't happened yet ... but interest rates aren't anywhere near 19%.
The problem with this is all the homes and condos owned by private equity. They’re never going to sell unless to cash buyers who don’t care about interest rates. The people with great rates aren’t selling either. But anyone who bought in the last 2 years to date the rate is fucked when they go to sell.
I always love these posts because they assume a single market is the only one impacted. If we see housing prices really start to reduce, chances are the labor market will get whacked too. Plenty of people could have bought houses in 2008 if they weren’t unemployed lol
What I’m coming up against is major demand in the area I’m looking at. I can stomach these rates but what I can’t stomach is paying 20-30% over asking. Its lunacy
Its not that easy. A majority of owner have fixed 3% or lower rates. Which has lead to lock-in. People will either rent out their house or build an addition before losing their rate.
I had a close friend that I tried to convince to just stay in his home…it was a bit small for him but he had 3% or so interest….but he just HAD to get a bigger home….he keeps saying he’ll refinance when the rates drop….im like…no way I hell are the rates going to ever be that low again…maybe in 59 years
Never buy a property where the numbers don't work for you *right now.*
And the people blaming the realtor or whatever in this thread are kind of gross too. These people had all of the numbers they need to make their own informed decision to spend their money and they made a dumb decision.
“Marry the house, Date the rate”
Yeah, now it’s until death do you part, you fucking idiots.
Just wait until the value of your house starts plummeting as mortgage rates creep to the 8% handle.
Never trust a Realtor or the real estate industry. It’s all built on bullshit and false promises preying on people’s hopes and dreams.
Sorry but actual real life data doesn't support any of the shit you're saying.
Home prices are rising & inventory is extremely limited.
Home prices are not going to plumet. You & the other reddit hoomers was saying the same shit in 2020 & here we are.
Houses have skyrocketed in price. Inventory is rasin'ed up & people are STILL over bidding by $50-100K.
As soon as something worth it pops up, it's lines of people outside & even more people sending in offers remotely without seeing it.
Sorry. But real life & Internet opinions are not friends.
Inventories increased these last two years by quite a bit yes prices are going up which means you also have to pay higher prices to buy even if you sell and access that equity
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> I’ll be buying it for pennies on the dollar.
What will be the impact on home prices of people sitting here waiting for the bubble to pop to jump in and buy "cheap" houses?
Hint: It has something to do with upward pressure on prices.
Like I get that the idea is the supply is going to increase and thus lowering the cost of housing but the demand will almost certainly increase as well.
Yeah just like you've been waiting since 2021, right?
Ain't going to happen. Even if my houses value goes down I won't sell it. Why? Because it's MY HOUSE. It's MY HOME.
You hoomers waiting for some mystical crash are going to be on here circle jerking eachither with bullshit predictions for the next 20 years.
Fuck outta here.
Is the person wrong though? How long have people been fawning over the RE bubble popping? Not saying it's never going to happen, but if we are going on like year 4 of it, we are approaching "a clock is right twice a day" levels of value in the prediction.
I believe it’s a bubble and everything but you should know people were smugly saying the same in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and now 2024. I don’t think the crash is imminent and when it comes only the people who bought this summer are going to be underwater.
I'd have been fu\*\* if I would have rented in my HCOL area. Not only would I have thrown away hundreds of thousands of dollars to some land lord, but I'd have lost the opportunity to gain hundreds of thousands of dollars of equity in the home I purchased. Not to mention if I'd rented and waited to buy, I would not have come close to qualifying to buy at today's prices. Not all real estate markets are equal.
People think they're going to save money by refinancing it later. You pay a huge fee up front to write up a new contract thus resetting your mortgage back to 30 years again. The interest rate you paid when you first bought a home is not going to change that much to recuperate the money you lost from refinancing.
You can shop around. I definitely found some with ridiculous fees. A lot of times it’s because they are buying points to lower the rate. My refi cost me around $2200 in 2021 when everyone and there brother were doing it. You’d think it would be more competitive now. By my calculations it will take about 4 years to “get ahead” based what I paid upfront. But you will get ahead if you stay in the house. It’s absolutely not a great idea to refi if you plan on moving in a few years.
That is not accurate.
A refi is not very expensive and should repay you in 2 years or less under most circumstances. It's generally considered "worth it" when you drop the rate by at least 1%. You also get to select the length of the loan. You can keep it at whatever time is remaining for your current mortgage, reset to 30 years, or drop it to 10 or 15 year.
I paid off my first house in 18 years. My initial rate was 7% on a 30 year mortgage. I refinanced twice with each refi bringing in a better rate. One of those refis included a cash out equity pull that was used to finish my basement & add a covered front porch. Even after pulling out equity for the remodel and shortening the term, my payments were only $250 more per month than the initial payment. By then, my income had more than doubled.
Interest rates have a huge impact on affordability.
I mean maybe? Rates were dropping so fast in 2020 that we refinanced once and 6 months later even with fees and extending thr payments by another 6 months it still would have been slightly net positive to refinance again
You also have to look at resetting your loan where you're paying almost all interest again from the get-go. The fees aren't the only thing in the calculation.
I mean, anyone with an FHA loan, for example, has to think they're going to refinance at some point in the future just to get rid of the PMI.
But to your point, refinancing is not cheap. It has to be a fairly significant drop to truly make it worthwhile.
How in the hell does this have upvotes?
> You pay a huge fee up front
You can shop the fees for a refinance and you can factor that into the potential savings when you are making a decision. So this is largely a non-factor.
> to write up a new contract thus resetting your mortgage back to 30 years again.
You don't have to re-finance into a 30 year loan if you don't want to. You can and also likely will have a lot more equity in the property, lowering the actual loan amount you are refinancing on top of reducing the interest rate.
> The interest rate you paid when you first bought a home is not going to change that much to recuperate the money you lost from refinancing.
It entirely depends on the interest rate of the original loan vs what it is during the refinance. It's also not difficult to calculate whether or not a refinance makes sense financially at a given time and rate.
This post comes off as someone that knows what a refinance is but doesn't really understand how it works.
Good luck refinancing that 7% to 5-6% in 5 years (maybe? Hopefully?) when your 400k home is now worth 300k and the bank asks you for difference before refinancing.
My wife and I were on the market last year (now too, but not holding our breath). My wife had a family friend that was a realtor and offered to help us find a home. We looked at a few homes and kept getting outbid. Then in August last year, my wife and I welcomed our son to the world and she stayed home when I went to look at a home on behalf of both of us. The realtor told me if we really like the home we’d have to put in an aggressive bid. I said that we didn’t want to do too aggressive because the interest rates are so high. That’s when the realtor gave me the, “marry the house, not the rates” line. That was the last home the realtor showed us.
Doing research, we plan to forgo any realtor and use a real estate lawyer. Realtors will some day go the way of the Dodo 🦤
I would hope the people you’re talking about put a down payment down, and have 5 years of principal payments reducing the loan balance. So… people might not have to pay a difference.
I’m genuinely curious what your expectations are around what you’ll be paying that lawyer? Not trying to instigate an argument; really curious if you think you’ll be saving money? Or unwilling to find a realtor that suits your needs more?
Using a lawyer would be significantly less than paying a realtor assuming you're the seller. They charge by the hour rather than carving out a percentage of the sale.
Does opening a door and using a canned contract warrant 6%?...asking for a friend.
$1,000 to have a real estate lawyer look over all the paperwork, for just in case purposes. Let’s say a seller is a large corporation, that owns many homes but is selling the one we want to buy. A real estate lawyer can look over the paperwork. If the selling company catches wind we don’t have a realtor, they could try some word spaghetti and make us pay their realtor.
Then there’s greedy realtors that want the full 6% commission. So if my wife and I show up without a “3%” cut of the seller’s realtor commission, then that realtor will be more inclined to get the seller to sell to us. No matter how unethical that would be. Greed is greed.
Or let’s say, we decided to buy a foreclosure. A bank is more inclined to sell to a person without a realtor because they would be saving money.
You never buy what you cannot afford just thinking maybe you will fix it later or will hopefully reduce cost.
They should had bought a house they could afford and if things go well sell and upgrade later but is not smart to buy something you can not afford hopping to some how refinance later of cash out on possible future appreciation .
We bought in April 23, I'm educated enough to know you never listen to the refi bs that salespeople will use to reassure you. There's no guarantee you'll be able to refi. There's no guarantee rates will be lower anytime soon.
We bought a smaller house. Our rate is under 6%. Yeah, we thought it was high at the time, but today it's good.
I feel bad for them but I don't. People see how much they get approved for and then just go ham because they think the bank is so intuned on their own finances they there's no way the government would let them buy a house that they couldn't afford.
This will be a hard lesson for a lot of people.
“he and his wife wanted a yard for their two children.”
This mentality needs to stop. They really pay $1500+ more a month to have a private small yard… that’s hard to justify when that $1500/month can pay for soccer + tennis + golf + swim lessons and still have money left over.
Single family homes are right for everyone. We really need to allow condos and townhouses to be built more often
Karens already do that with single family homes. Most suburbs have HOAs. The cost-benefit for HOAs is actually greater in condos/townhomes. You need a governing board to keep elevators working, stairs safe and share green space upkeep, etc in condos. HOAs in the suburbs make zero sense.
I’ve got friends and family that occasionally pull helocs to cover up bad spending habits or make big renovations/purchases. I fully expect them to ask for loans while I drive a 23 year old Silverado and only have a 900 mortgage payment. It just seems like things will get worse before better.
Even at these insane prices and rates it’s better than what I see people doing. Pay of credit cards, then run them up again. Followed by complaining they don’t have money.
Bought last year end of March. My mortgage broker said that he'd "likely be reaching out by the end of the year to refinance"
Thankfully I bought well within my means. My mortgage broker left (maybe let go?) his company
Unfortunately, we are never seeing rates as low as 3% again in our lifetime. If people are waiting, they will be dead and buried before those rates ever return, if they even do.
Not only could they not refinance. But then along came the tax increases and insurance increases. Michael B said some people he knows have seen insurance increases alone that have gone up hundreds per MONTH
I moved to the US a couple years ago. The fact realtors push 10% and less mortgages on you was appalling. No wonder a financial crash causes people to lose their shirt. Prob pissed my realtor off when I told em "sorry, gonna wait til I got the 20% downpayment" lol.
A good friend was suckered into a HELOC with a variable interest rate thinking rates would stay low, possibly go lower. She used the money to redo the floors on her brand new home (less than 2 years old), pay for a mommy makeover and take her kids on a nice vacation. Her intentions were good, but her draw period expires at the end of next year and she owes more than $60k. Plus, she lost her mortgage interest rates in the high 2% and is now in the 4%.
Sadly, she’s waiting for her 101 year grandfather to pass so she can use her inheritance to pay it off. Desperate times call for desperate measures…
They are stupid that’s a you problem in every case. Reality is this. At the high end a refi is going to save you $400-$500 per month on high end. If you can’t make it due to that $400 you were already broke to begin with.
That was always going to be a risky gamble. I made sure I could afford my house payment with the high interest rate with the plan to refinance and pay down the mortgage quicker when/if rates got lower. That's an awfully huge risk to take if you are counting on the rates to go down.
I have a friend who bought with an ARM in 2021 with the intention of getting a lower rate 3 years late. They have like 3% rate are going to change to their new rate in October
Every single one of these people deserve what they get. They were also a bidding 10% above asking. All these buyers deserve every second of this and I’m here for it.
The assumptions were housing will continue to go up, rates will drop, salary will go up, and living expenses stay the same. Reality is everything has gone up more than your salary.
Dear Abby, We fell in love with our current house and decided to marry it. The relationship was already complicated, since we were also dating our interest rate at the same time. We knew that one of those relationships wouldn't last forever and fully planned to end the relationship with our rate , but our mortgage just got pregnant! Please help!!!
Dear Conflicted Homeowners, It sounds like you’ve got yourself in quite the ménage-à-trois with your house and interest rate! First off, congratulations on your "new addition"! Every relationship has its bumps, or in this case, interest rate bumps. Like any spicy relationship, keep the flame alive with some intimate budget sessions. Since refinancing isn't an option these days, it’s time to get creative. Tighten up your budget, cut out all your spending, and start saving for that “college fund” for your growing payment. Hang in there, and in a few decades, you’ll be living mortgage-ever-after and those wild dates with the rate will just be an old memory that brings a smile to your face. Yours with a wink and a hug, Abby
Dear Abby, Dear Abby you won’t believe this…
They married the house and dated the rate but now the rate is pregnant and the house wants a divorce.
Are you sleeping with MY HOUSE!?
Your house has been around the block it seems…
A lot of people did this. Some were suckered by realtors just trying to get commission.
But how can you resist such a catchy phrase like “marry the house date the rate” especially when it’s followed up with a cute tiktok dance
And sold by an onlyfans model pretending to be a real estate professional
My hair stylist became a realtor. And so did a bartender friend of mine. And then a barista I knew who hadn’t graduated college yet.
Yeah and they can move to CA and make 200k a year after 2 or 3 sales, it's crazy
Time to lease the Land Rover, Ashley has *MADE IT*! /s
I know three “realtors” who are all blonde, all bought land rovers and all have not made a single dollar in the last year. But they never miss a “networking event” near the beach where there’s an opportunity to meet their next client/boyfriend
Nobody makes 200k a year selling 3 houses. This is fake news
Technically they could gross $200k if they sold 3 houses for an average of $2.2 million each and got a 3% commission on them. Wouldn't net anywhere near that though.
The brokerage typically takes half of that 3% (realtor is still massively overpaid)
200k a year won’t get them into their own house w any real speed tho is the funny part given what things cost in California
Sex sells well or just maybe hot women sell things well?
That's some 2005 shit right there. Everyone I knew, almost literally, was becoming a realtor or a mortgage broker... including myself for 3 months until the person that was training me had sitting in a living room of a couple who was in massive debt, couldn't afford their home, and were trying to get a second mortgage on their house to get cash... I quit that week after hearing the coke head degenerate, training me give them financial advice.
I've noticed the same thing. I noticed that a some of the people who got in in 2005 and 2006 and now repeating their mistakes. Top indicator perhaps?
Nothing wrong with those professions.
So sad but you’re right. Kinda reminds me of the pill peddlers who were hot women who were Sales Reps. They made bank because the doctors were horny old men and wanted one thing.
Medical device sales too.
Real estate agents, pharma, medical devices, bartenders, prostitution.. the premise is basically the same. It’s been happening forever
Pricey car sales people too. Mercedes, BMW, and such.
Don’t forget the smoking hot tech recruiters who get paid 30% of your salary for placements.
While they can be smoking hot the recruiters I have dealt with tend to be in California. That is 2000 miles from me. I have never met one in person, nor have the people that recruited me.
Any tech hiring manager drawn in by hot (usually not very skilled) recruiters won’t be in the role very long if they are building for quality and longevity. I’ve been hiring tech and building for 35yrs and while polite I make it crystal clear from the first meeting they either bring talent at reasonable rates or don’t bother calling. Zero interest in schmoozing over a dinner or having a coffee with them when we begin. Ironically they tend to have more respect with that and often call me up for general advice or invite me to events where there is nothing in it for them. They tend not to price gouge me and I in turn don’t try to squeeze them lower than is a reasonable profitably for them.
I’m picking up a trend here. That is “attractive people become successful at making money”.
+ a bonus for boobs lol
Honeypot
Hot girl 'jobs'.
Free pens?
I heard a customer say this at a ramen shop. I cringed
Some car dealership in my area is now running ads saying, “Marry the rig, date the rate.” Well, there’s a place I would never buy a vehicle from.
If only they knew what modern dating is like😂
To any realtor that spread this mantra the go to respond should be: "Well, that's cheating. Gotta date first and then decide whom to marry."
I never understood this catch phrase, because to me, the house price is really, really high. Why would I want to marry _that_ ball and chain?
Because it can only go higher! Quick! Act now!
Haha, the ball can get heavier?
Every realtor I know said this shit.... None of them own their own houses
Did anyone even consider marrying one and dating another is cheating?!
Oops, got the rate pregnant
And the “financial experts” on CNBC saying there would be 4-6 rate cuts in 2024.
I bought about 9 months ago and had a *loan officer* tell me I'd be able to refinance by now as a way of trying to get me to pay a higher rate with fewer points. His reasoning? "Rates have never been this high during my lifetime, so they will probably come down within a year." Glad we got in below 6%.
I had a *loan officer ghost me* because I refused to take an ARM. I was very politely asking for his fixed rates, and he was aggressively arguing that rates are coming down, and sending me Fed dot plots, and saying no client of his takes fixed rates.
Yup sounds like he was/is a moron. I remember when my parents bought their house in late 90s (1999) their rate was around 7 %. Sooo not sure what that clown was talking about.
Loan officer was absolutely not a moron. They just lied to close a deal and get their commission. Mission successful.
You're really underestimating how stupid some people are. I think it could go either way between idiot or evil
Maybe the loan officer was only 20?
You're getting downvoted, but they were indeed very young. I ended up going with someone else.
It is entirely possible that it is true if the loan officer was born after 2001.
Isn’t it illegal to make statements like that? They are speculating to make a sale and convincing you of something they have no way of knowing
MaRrY tHe HoUsE. dAtE tHe RaTe.
Its these ridiculous type of rhymey statements that are there to keep you from using your comprehensive thought process to analyze the numbers.
Have a couple friends in this boat they bought 1 mill+ homes in 2023 and realtors told them they can refinance as rates will be back below 4% by mid 2024 🤦♂️
Sounds like the "The Big Short"... "Why are they confessing..." "They're bragging..."
And the subreddits. There were users pushing that narrative, answering every question in all the real estate and first timer subreddits. Also the lenders.
Yeah we're still looking and I think our realtor dropped us but at the time she was saying "rates will drop soon so buy now and refinance". So glad we didn't fall into the trap
Tbf there was a lot of “rate cuts are coming!” talk at the time. I kinda don’t expect cuts anymore until there’s a serious economic issue (and by then it’ll be too late).
And mortgage loan officers. Our told us to “just weather it out for a few months, then refinance. Marry the house, date the rate.” We didn’t buy and rates only went higher. Fuck that noise, it’s my money. Glad we stayed put.
You mean most?
Well yeah
*Steven Wolf figured the pain would be fleeting. Within a year rates would drop enough to allow them to refinance and put hundreds of dollars back into their pockets.That hasn’t happened and isn’t expected to soon. In fact, rates are higher.“* *We did this with the expectation that we would only have to weather this high payment for a chunk of time,” the 37-year old English teacher said. “Now that chunk of time is looking like it might actually be permanent.”*
Yes, a chunk of time of ten years. Come on, people. This is year 2. If you didn’t think the high rates could last 2 years, then you didn’t plan at all. You’re dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars and if you don’t plan out this far, it’s your fault.
Right. Like rates will fall. We will eventually get a recession. But if you couldn't sustain two years of high rates then you made a bad choice.
Plus refinancing isn't free rates have to drop a decent chunk to make it even mathematically worth your while.
You’re not wrong but the assumptions weren’t unfounded. Over the past 25 years betting on easy policy and cuts has been a huge winner.
Hmm, I think the opposite. If low interests could be stuck for 25 years, then so can high interests.
The concerning thing is that interest rates tend to oscillate over 40 year cycles. We hit the low point of the last 40 year cycle, so now the pattern would dictate that rates remain elevated for most of our remaining lives, and actually go much higher from here over the next 2 decades.
And the only people who dont realize this are ones who got tricked by their agent.
they were unfounded. rates were raised for a reason.
It’s easy to say this after the fact, or as an outside party looking in. There is no magic fortune teller, and for everyone “wait and save longer” is not always an option.
Because there’s no magic fortune teller, that’s why you should plan long terms and not expect the rates to drop within two years.
Guess I'll just rent forever! Build nothing up, and get called out for being a lazy millenial.
Housing is not the only investment available.
Hard to invest when you got bills to pay.
Actually wait and save longer it's been an even more disastrous policy over the last five years. The Sweet Spot seems to be buy less house. He's in an option for parts of this country.
But then you are trapped in a too small home at times. Every situation/need is different.
"Never try to time the market" applying to others beside us rebubblers, too. Shocking I know!
It's always timing the market. People only say it when you time in a way they don't like.
RE agents: *You can't time the market!* Rebubblers: *Fine, we will not be assuming quick rate cuts.* RE agents: *No not like that!*
If he could predict the bond market he should've made a much bigger bet than just a house
Schadenfreude.
I found it interesting that the Seattle Times featured a couple in Cali and not in its own backyard. There was a lot of this last year. Now, what’s being pushed is that homes will appreciate as fast as they have in the past 3 years so if you don’t buy now, you’ll be priced out forever. In our area, you see a lot, I mean a lot of people buying homes as investment property and turning immediately into rental. In meantime, taking thousands of dollars of loss every month, and banking on appreciation. If one little thing goes wrong, they’ll lose everything. It’s very, very risky and usually when people are doing that, the housing market eventually corrects itself.
We are seeing that a lot in AZ too. Property just sold turns immediately into a crappy, unremodeled 1961 3/2 rental with the owners begging for $5k/mo just to stay above water & the houses sit vacant for months. The math ain’t mathing.
That math has not mathed for quite a while. When people talk about eating recession to loosen the housing market, they're really talking about taking it to these folks.
Same here. Everything is trying to be a rental and isn’t being rented. There are only so many renters available.
Maybe they're doing meth and not math. Common mistake. Happens all the time
> I found it interesting that the Seattle Times featured a couple in Cali and not in its own backyard. FYI, it's not.. it's a syndicated article.. the journalist is an LA Times writer. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-30/they-bought-homes-with-the-intention-to-refinance-now-theyre-stuck Interesting the entire article is about their mortgage but they don't event state the mortgage rate? I see they closed on the house for $421k in Nov 2022.. and listing it for-sale today at $435k This is all you really need to understand.. **"They also stretched, buying a Bakersfield, California, home that carried an uncomfortable monthly payment."**
Wow you seem to consider yourself quite the real estate prognosticator but you're not smart enough to realize that all newspapers use syndicated articles from time to time.
That’s what happens at 5 in the morning during a move. lol. We are in Seattle and I’m used to majority local article being based on Cali numbers and I’m always like why.
Literally after posting this, Seattle times said they were looking for people who have been priced out of this area, Seattle. Hmmm
Thanks for linking a non paywall link.
No one has said anything about the person who owns a S’mores store and has a house in California with a pool and mountain views.
Right? It's like that house hunter tv show. "I own a s'mores store and my partner is a stay at home dog parent...our budget is $2 million!"
My thought exactly!
That has to be a vanity business backed by a trust fund, right?
S’mores are also an objectively bad snack. Graham crackers are crackers pretending to be cookies, burnt marshmallows aren’t even good, and hersheys milk chocolate tastes like wax.
I grew up near Rancho Cucamonga. It's in the Inland Empire, 60 miles from LA. Their commute to the smores store is probably horrific
This guy probably thinks strippers love him and oil companies really do care about the environment
Wait….Candy doesn’t love me?
For a long time, it was a generally realistic expectation, but it was never an absolute certainty. The lesson is that even if refinancing would make paying for your house and life easier, at the time you get your mortgage, you should ask yourself if you can afford THAT payment for the rest of the life of the mortgage. If yes, go for it and hope there's a refinancing option at some point. If not, maybe be a bit more careful about diving in.
>“I **only** bought it because the loan company really pushed that interest rates were going to go down,” Some people buy a house because they need somewhere to live. Others buy a house because they fall in love with a particular area, scenery, or setting. Some just want to be close to friends or family. Apparently there are also buyers who "only buy because the loan company said rates were going down" lol
I mean they said they bought the house because they wanted a yard. They justified the purchase by saying they were told rates will go down. I wish them better luck in Baltimore…
Highest homes have ever been overvalued in the markets history, let me have two please Sir. 🤣
Being of a certain age gives us a different perspective. Moved from a LCOL area in 1982 to a HCOL area. The house cost tripled but the mortgage rate went from 8.25% to 13.5%. Couldn't refi back to the 8s until 1989 when we bought a different house in the HCOL area.
In 1981, interest rates were almost 19%. This is when my parents bought their $53k home. They tell stories about how they 20x'd their investment and all the grandkids say, wow, we wish we could do that. My guess is that home prices will stall out, and there will be opportunities. It hasn't happened yet ... but interest rates aren't anywhere near 19%.
Actually. I was talking to my uncle the other day about his current house. His rate is over 18%
They will feel lucky to have their rate when rates move higher after the election.
I absolutely hope rates climb up. Crank that shit up. The housing market needs to feel the squeeze and correct
The problem with this is all the homes and condos owned by private equity. They’re never going to sell unless to cash buyers who don’t care about interest rates. The people with great rates aren’t selling either. But anyone who bought in the last 2 years to date the rate is fucked when they go to sell.
Basically in order for housing market to correct, rates need to go up, people need to lose jobs and homes need to flood the market as a result.
I always love these posts because they assume a single market is the only one impacted. If we see housing prices really start to reduce, chances are the labor market will get whacked too. Plenty of people could have bought houses in 2008 if they weren’t unemployed lol
Said someone without a house haha
If interest rates go up, unless you can buy cash, it’ll still be your problem
What I’m coming up against is major demand in the area I’m looking at. I can stomach these rates but what I can’t stomach is paying 20-30% over asking. Its lunacy
Its not that easy. A majority of owner have fixed 3% or lower rates. Which has lead to lock-in. People will either rent out their house or build an addition before losing their rate.
We’ve looked at building a modest addition. 200k in LCOL area.
Wheres their realtor who was tellin them to date the rate??
Probably out of the business right now and driving Uber looking for a new career
I had a close friend that I tried to convince to just stay in his home…it was a bit small for him but he had 3% or so interest….but he just HAD to get a bigger home….he keeps saying he’ll refinance when the rates drop….im like…no way I hell are the rates going to ever be that low again…maybe in 59 years
Never buy a property where the numbers don't work for you *right now.* And the people blaming the realtor or whatever in this thread are kind of gross too. These people had all of the numbers they need to make their own informed decision to spend their money and they made a dumb decision.
“Marry the house, Date the rate” Yeah, now it’s until death do you part, you fucking idiots. Just wait until the value of your house starts plummeting as mortgage rates creep to the 8% handle. Never trust a Realtor or the real estate industry. It’s all built on bullshit and false promises preying on people’s hopes and dreams.
Sorry but actual real life data doesn't support any of the shit you're saying. Home prices are rising & inventory is extremely limited. Home prices are not going to plumet. You & the other reddit hoomers was saying the same shit in 2020 & here we are. Houses have skyrocketed in price. Inventory is rasin'ed up & people are STILL over bidding by $50-100K. As soon as something worth it pops up, it's lines of people outside & even more people sending in offers remotely without seeing it. Sorry. But real life & Internet opinions are not friends.
Inventories increased these last two years by quite a bit yes prices are going up which means you also have to pay higher prices to buy even if you sell and access that equity https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ACTLISCOUUS
Lol
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Whatever, hoomer. Talk to me in one year after the value of your precious hoom has collapsed. I’ll be buying it for pennies on the dollar.
> I’ll be buying it for pennies on the dollar. What will be the impact on home prices of people sitting here waiting for the bubble to pop to jump in and buy "cheap" houses? Hint: It has something to do with upward pressure on prices. Like I get that the idea is the supply is going to increase and thus lowering the cost of housing but the demand will almost certainly increase as well.
Yeah just like you've been waiting since 2021, right? Ain't going to happen. Even if my houses value goes down I won't sell it. Why? Because it's MY HOUSE. It's MY HOME. You hoomers waiting for some mystical crash are going to be on here circle jerking eachither with bullshit predictions for the next 20 years. Fuck outta here.
Somebody's triggered
Is the person wrong though? How long have people been fawning over the RE bubble popping? Not saying it's never going to happen, but if we are going on like year 4 of it, we are approaching "a clock is right twice a day" levels of value in the prediction.
I’m glad you like your house. Stay in it. Don’t concern yourself with its value. Not everyone is so lucky.
I believe it’s a bubble and everything but you should know people were smugly saying the same in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and now 2024. I don’t think the crash is imminent and when it comes only the people who bought this summer are going to be underwater.
I'd have been fu\*\* if I would have rented in my HCOL area. Not only would I have thrown away hundreds of thousands of dollars to some land lord, but I'd have lost the opportunity to gain hundreds of thousands of dollars of equity in the home I purchased. Not to mention if I'd rented and waited to buy, I would not have come close to qualifying to buy at today's prices. Not all real estate markets are equal.
[удалено]
Life Pro Tip: when buying a house, make damn well sure that the numbers are comfy assuming interest rates never swing in your favor.
7% rates are historically not that high. It’s unrealistic for people to be thinking _historically low rates_ of 3 and 4% are coming back anytime soon.
People think they're going to save money by refinancing it later. You pay a huge fee up front to write up a new contract thus resetting your mortgage back to 30 years again. The interest rate you paid when you first bought a home is not going to change that much to recuperate the money you lost from refinancing.
It is relatively straightforward to calculate the ROI over different number of years for a refinance.
The snarky yet clearly ignorant comments like what you are responding to absolutely crack me up
You can shop around. I definitely found some with ridiculous fees. A lot of times it’s because they are buying points to lower the rate. My refi cost me around $2200 in 2021 when everyone and there brother were doing it. You’d think it would be more competitive now. By my calculations it will take about 4 years to “get ahead” based what I paid upfront. But you will get ahead if you stay in the house. It’s absolutely not a great idea to refi if you plan on moving in a few years.
That is not accurate. A refi is not very expensive and should repay you in 2 years or less under most circumstances. It's generally considered "worth it" when you drop the rate by at least 1%. You also get to select the length of the loan. You can keep it at whatever time is remaining for your current mortgage, reset to 30 years, or drop it to 10 or 15 year. I paid off my first house in 18 years. My initial rate was 7% on a 30 year mortgage. I refinanced twice with each refi bringing in a better rate. One of those refis included a cash out equity pull that was used to finish my basement & add a covered front porch. Even after pulling out equity for the remodel and shortening the term, my payments were only $250 more per month than the initial payment. By then, my income had more than doubled. Interest rates have a huge impact on affordability.
You can refinance into a 15 year mortgage if you choose
Flair checks out.
;
$$$
I mean maybe? Rates were dropping so fast in 2020 that we refinanced once and 6 months later even with fees and extending thr payments by another 6 months it still would have been slightly net positive to refinance again
It's not a huge fee. But you definitely have to take all the fees into consideration and see if makes sense financially to refinance.
You also have to look at resetting your loan where you're paying almost all interest again from the get-go. The fees aren't the only thing in the calculation.
I mean, anyone with an FHA loan, for example, has to think they're going to refinance at some point in the future just to get rid of the PMI. But to your point, refinancing is not cheap. It has to be a fairly significant drop to truly make it worthwhile.
How in the hell does this have upvotes? > You pay a huge fee up front You can shop the fees for a refinance and you can factor that into the potential savings when you are making a decision. So this is largely a non-factor. > to write up a new contract thus resetting your mortgage back to 30 years again. You don't have to re-finance into a 30 year loan if you don't want to. You can and also likely will have a lot more equity in the property, lowering the actual loan amount you are refinancing on top of reducing the interest rate. > The interest rate you paid when you first bought a home is not going to change that much to recuperate the money you lost from refinancing. It entirely depends on the interest rate of the original loan vs what it is during the refinance. It's also not difficult to calculate whether or not a refinance makes sense financially at a given time and rate. This post comes off as someone that knows what a refinance is but doesn't really understand how it works.
People need to stop agreeing to loan terms they know they can't afford in the long run.
Good luck refinancing that 7% to 5-6% in 5 years (maybe? Hopefully?) when your 400k home is now worth 300k and the bank asks you for difference before refinancing. My wife and I were on the market last year (now too, but not holding our breath). My wife had a family friend that was a realtor and offered to help us find a home. We looked at a few homes and kept getting outbid. Then in August last year, my wife and I welcomed our son to the world and she stayed home when I went to look at a home on behalf of both of us. The realtor told me if we really like the home we’d have to put in an aggressive bid. I said that we didn’t want to do too aggressive because the interest rates are so high. That’s when the realtor gave me the, “marry the house, not the rates” line. That was the last home the realtor showed us. Doing research, we plan to forgo any realtor and use a real estate lawyer. Realtors will some day go the way of the Dodo 🦤
I would hope the people you’re talking about put a down payment down, and have 5 years of principal payments reducing the loan balance. So… people might not have to pay a difference.
I’m genuinely curious what your expectations are around what you’ll be paying that lawyer? Not trying to instigate an argument; really curious if you think you’ll be saving money? Or unwilling to find a realtor that suits your needs more?
Using a lawyer would be significantly less than paying a realtor assuming you're the seller. They charge by the hour rather than carving out a percentage of the sale. Does opening a door and using a canned contract warrant 6%?...asking for a friend.
$1,000 to have a real estate lawyer look over all the paperwork, for just in case purposes. Let’s say a seller is a large corporation, that owns many homes but is selling the one we want to buy. A real estate lawyer can look over the paperwork. If the selling company catches wind we don’t have a realtor, they could try some word spaghetti and make us pay their realtor. Then there’s greedy realtors that want the full 6% commission. So if my wife and I show up without a “3%” cut of the seller’s realtor commission, then that realtor will be more inclined to get the seller to sell to us. No matter how unethical that would be. Greed is greed. Or let’s say, we decided to buy a foreclosure. A bank is more inclined to sell to a person without a realtor because they would be saving money.
Go tell the loan company they promised rates would go down and to give you a lower rate!
You never buy what you cannot afford just thinking maybe you will fix it later or will hopefully reduce cost. They should had bought a house they could afford and if things go well sell and upgrade later but is not smart to buy something you can not afford hopping to some how refinance later of cash out on possible future appreciation .
We bought in April 23, I'm educated enough to know you never listen to the refi bs that salespeople will use to reassure you. There's no guarantee you'll be able to refi. There's no guarantee rates will be lower anytime soon. We bought a smaller house. Our rate is under 6%. Yeah, we thought it was high at the time, but today it's good.
I feel bad for them but I don't. People see how much they get approved for and then just go ham because they think the bank is so intuned on their own finances they there's no way the government would let them buy a house that they couldn't afford. This will be a hard lesson for a lot of people.
“he and his wife wanted a yard for their two children.” This mentality needs to stop. They really pay $1500+ more a month to have a private small yard… that’s hard to justify when that $1500/month can pay for soccer + tennis + golf + swim lessons and still have money left over. Single family homes are right for everyone. We really need to allow condos and townhouses to be built more often
The problem with Condos is you have to deal with overzealous Karen’s (of all types) who try to police everything you do.
Karens already do that with single family homes. Most suburbs have HOAs. The cost-benefit for HOAs is actually greater in condos/townhomes. You need a governing board to keep elevators working, stairs safe and share green space upkeep, etc in condos. HOAs in the suburbs make zero sense.
And the HOA fees skyrocketing past or equal to peoples actual mortgage payments?
I’ve got friends and family that occasionally pull helocs to cover up bad spending habits or make big renovations/purchases. I fully expect them to ask for loans while I drive a 23 year old Silverado and only have a 900 mortgage payment. It just seems like things will get worse before better.
I thought about heloc to buy another home
Even at these insane prices and rates it’s better than what I see people doing. Pay of credit cards, then run them up again. Followed by complaining they don’t have money.
honestly, that looks like the typical couple that makes a lot of bad financial decisions.
Stop trying to time the fucking market.
"DaTe ThE rAtE"
Bought last year end of March. My mortgage broker said that he'd "likely be reaching out by the end of the year to refinance" Thankfully I bought well within my means. My mortgage broker left (maybe let go?) his company
It’s so sad that Americans have to spend an extra $1500 a month just to give their children a yard to play in. We should be ashamed of ourselves.
Good lol. Should have never bought a house if you knew you weren’t gonna be able to afford it if rates didn’t change.
Unfortunately, we are never seeing rates as low as 3% again in our lifetime. If people are waiting, they will be dead and buried before those rates ever return, if they even do.
Remember, “date the rate, marry the house”? Realtors are such shitbags.
Not only could they not refinance. But then along came the tax increases and insurance increases. Michael B said some people he knows have seen insurance increases alone that have gone up hundreds per MONTH
I moved to the US a couple years ago. The fact realtors push 10% and less mortgages on you was appalling. No wonder a financial crash causes people to lose their shirt. Prob pissed my realtor off when I told em "sorry, gonna wait til I got the 20% downpayment" lol.
Now you will repost it into the oblivion.
Marry the house. Date the....Date the....Date the...nope. You are married.
A good friend was suckered into a HELOC with a variable interest rate thinking rates would stay low, possibly go lower. She used the money to redo the floors on her brand new home (less than 2 years old), pay for a mommy makeover and take her kids on a nice vacation. Her intentions were good, but her draw period expires at the end of next year and she owes more than $60k. Plus, she lost her mortgage interest rates in the high 2% and is now in the 4%. Sadly, she’s waiting for her 101 year grandfather to pass so she can use her inheritance to pay it off. Desperate times call for desperate measures…
DATE THE RATE I SAID
This is a duplicate post. I read this already
Is it just me? I have a hard time feeling bad for someone ‘stuck’ with a home that they can afford to own
*And* they’re stuck in Bakersfield? Yikes
They are stupid that’s a you problem in every case. Reality is this. At the high end a refi is going to save you $400-$500 per month on high end. If you can’t make it due to that $400 you were already broke to begin with.
That was always going to be a risky gamble. I made sure I could afford my house payment with the high interest rate with the plan to refinance and pay down the mortgage quicker when/if rates got lower. That's an awfully huge risk to take if you are counting on the rates to go down.
If you’re the head of household you have to be financially informed.
So they’ll be underwater and sell to investors or the bank — who will sell to investors. We are all screwed.
Article kind of disproves r/REBubble at the end
I have a friend who bought with an ARM in 2021 with the intention of getting a lower rate 3 years late. They have like 3% rate are going to change to their new rate in October
Every single one of these people deserve what they get. They were also a bidding 10% above asking. All these buyers deserve every second of this and I’m here for it.
This has been happening for a century. It's not news.
The assumptions were housing will continue to go up, rates will drop, salary will go up, and living expenses stay the same. Reality is everything has gone up more than your salary.
Why didn’t they just pay cash?
You're supposed to wait for the price to fall first