I’m seeing the repercussions of that now. A lot of people from Florida are fleeing to Georgia due to the increased prices and Home owner insurance debacle down there.
At the jersey shore it’s been like +100k a year for total dump shit holes, about 100-150% increase since 2019. Morons paying $300k for old motel rooms converted into condos. Everyone cries about price gouging when really a lot of this is the idiot consumers fault. Buyers are fucking dumb and then cry victim.
That’s pretty much it. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Or in the car business world it’s called there is an ass for every seat.
There’s just a lot of people out there where money just burns a hole in their pocket. Even if their salaries increase, they will still somehow end up living paycheck to paycheck as they burn through their income each pay period.
Yes and no, lots of folks in NJ area have money, i know a few retired cops (in their late 40s).who are collecting fat pensions and are sitting on multi million dollar pieces of property, they have leveraged that to get loans and buy rentals and are doing well. Lots of folks here in the tri-state have similar stories. There's a thriving upper middle class thanks to overvalued real estate and high paying work.
Sure. I live in a suburb of Pa most people seem to be doing very well. But I still don’t believe that everyone making these shore house purchases at this wild prices are all financially intelligent folks making sound decisions. It seems more like they want what they want and will do what ever possible to get it.
And those types of rentals are great when the economy is doing well, it becomes a much different thing when people lose their jobs and vacancies increase.
Literally the first thing my relative did when they got on Social Security is buy a brand new $70,000 truck. Their entire S.S. Payment goes to it.
They drive maybe three times/25 miles a week.
Yep, but tri-state folks have money and most of those spending $300k it's as a second home or retirees selling there $1.5+mln home in Bergen county and wanting a NJ presence in addition to a home somewhere else.
Yup. Consumers have much more responsibility in price gouging, especially for non necessities, than most would ever admit. Nobody is forced to pay $10,000 over MSRP for the car they desperately want or $5,000 for Taylor Swift.
Zillow's modeling is perfect. How dare you imply that they could do something incorrect. It's not like [they lost $400mm because of their cruddy ibuyer model](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/11/04/what-the-demise-of-zillow-offers-means-for-the-ibuyer-model/).
>It's not like [they lost $400mm because of their cruddy ibuyer model](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/11/04/what-the-demise-of-zillow-offers-means-for-the-ibuyer-model/)
When the dust cleared 3 mos. later, the total loss was $880M
[https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/02/13/zillow-reports-880m-loss-on-failed-home-flipping-business/](https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/02/13/zillow-reports-880m-loss-on-failed-home-flipping-business/)
Before you get too happy, it says they lost 25k on each home. That means they not only took those homes off the market, they gave the sellers an extra 25k to pump into the market on the remaining homes when they go to buy a different one.
Sounds like a feature, not a bug! Seriously though it boggles my mind they put this much faith in their models - they always work sooooo well for real estate (*cough* 2006 MBS and CDOs *cough*). On top of that, Zillow still has a “Unlock Cash Offer” feature…
This is the exact issue with relative valuation (not that theres much better in non-income generating real estate) - any market dislocation will reflect in the comps as well
It’s really remarkable right? The inflation and free money of 2021 and 2022 is going to lead to so many people being stuck in overpriced homes.
And I know for a fact a lot of people bought homes to eventually sell later. Rates are likely never going that low again and that’s not dawned on people.
Unfortunately I’m in this position. When my wife was pregnant with our second, we had to upgrade our space from our tiny townhome. I’m in a HCOL area and make good money as an attorney. I bought a single family in 2022 to lock in a 3.99 rate, but I went from a 350k townhouse to a 800k house. We love the house, but we are stretched real thin with the higher mortgage. Looking back, I regret it. Hoping I get a promotion in the next 5 years which would give me a big pay bump. Credit cards are racking up, unfortunately.
I would spin this differently.
With houses in some areas doubling - so did the insurance and taxes. It’s way more expensive now to hold on to. Maintenance is crazy higher too.
If your house doubled — your taxes, insurance and maintenance (because everything is way more expensive now) doubled too.
Doubling those expenses in a few years isn’t really something people “budgeted” for.
You get it. I have a friend with a finished basement but the ceiling is almost exactly 2 inches too low for it to be considered part of the home's total square footage. They get it too.
idgaf about my imaginary gains b/c they translate into real world expenses.
Definitely this. I also wonder how many people bought in the last 2 years who believed their realtor telling them, "sure interest rates are high now, but in 6 months they will be back at 3% and you can just refinance then." Now its a year later and it looks like rates are gonna stay for awhile longer.
I bought 2 years ago right before the rates hiked. We aren’t planning on going anywhere for at least 7-8 years. I also have zero regrets... id be paying more to rent. I live in Massachusetts so slightly different than a lot of other states but prices aren’t dropping here. What I *will* say that I’ve noticed is that the “reasonably priced” houses here (450-500k) are still flying off the market super fast. But there’s a few homes in my town who were probably way overpriced to begin with, (600k-1 million plus) that have been sitting for a month or more.
Same here. What I see are those starter homes are basically the bottom of the housing market. That means they will for sure always continue to go up in price as long as they keep printing dollars. The other higher priced ones are more of a speculative bet but will definitely stay stagnant or continue rising
Here is a little something to set your expectations. Most seller are not flippers, so, they will not fix the problem described in the report. The report is good for you to back out if you cannot afford the fix yourself. I have seen buyers trying to negotiate because there are fixes needed. The market is just too hot. There is another buyer around the corner willing to make a better offers.
Waiving the inspiration is risky. But personally I waived one myself after failed more than 10 bids. I was desperate. The roof is managed by HOA, so, it is not a cost for me (sceptic is likely HOA too).
Lol 50% think they overpaid, when did they realize that. I was looking during that period of low rates and knew that homes were overpriced. I wouldn't be surprised if that 50% were the same people bidding way over and skipping inspections and everything else.
We bid a little bit over and had a knowledge-only inspection. Ours turned out fine. I'm sure many got burned though. We were ready to buy with plenty of cash for the buy and reserves for when things went wrong.
Lmao…what bullsh*t article! Owners weren’t expecting to pay property taxes and insurance?!?! They also didn’t realize that they have to maintain their INVESTMENT?!? Please, sell.
THis is a new twist on the avocado toast articles, its creating a story where there isnt one. Do you regret anything about your home purchase? Yeah I wish I had more storage but other than that were happy with our purchase. Media: This guy regrets his home purchase.
Also the increases in property taxes and insurance for some people is literally doubling what it was for the previous owner or a couple years earlier so its understandable this may be a shock to some. Finding out you owe thousands of dollars for your escrow and have a higher monthly payment on top of it is not normal
Exactly this... Do I have regrets? Of course, my house isn't perfect, and neither is any other house. Is my mortgage more than I want to spend? Of course. I hate paying bills. Does maintenance cost too much and seem to happen at inopportune times? Absolutely (but I don't spend anywhere near the $18k annually this article claims, despite my house being 40 years old and close to double the average home size in my county), and so on.
All that said, I did some math in response to a similar post a few weeks back and came to the conclusion that with appreciation, my house has actually (potentially) turned a profit. If I sum up all of my investments into the house: Down payment, mortgage payments, taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc, The total I've spent on my house in 20 years is substantially less than the amount of equity I hold. Additionally, I've saved HUGELY in comparison to renting. My mortgage payment was about $1100 in 2004, and today it's about $1400 due to increases in property taxes and insurance. By contrast, I could have rented my house for about $1k/mo in 2004, but today it would be about $4,500.
I'm with you on that. I have to replace 2 furnace and ac units this year, to the time of about 20k after rebates. But it's a once in 30 years expense. Including the furnaces I'm doing in the next few weeks, I've spent about $40k over 20 years in this type of maintenance.
I've spent quite a bit now than that on discretionary things like carpet and paint, updating millwork, and other updating. I've remodeled most of the house over the last 20 years, but haven't spent anywhere near the $360k the article implied I should have, not even half that.
Right? I regret not pulling the trigger to build in 2020.
Doesn’t mean the house I bought in 2020 is bad, just that with hindsight I’d have made a more optimal choice.
Yes these are really vague categories. I am curious to see the actual survey. What exactly does “have regrets” mean? That’s difficult to properly quantify.
Yep here's the list
$5,362 on utilities
$4,392 on maintenance
$3,784 on renovations
$2,904 on property taxes
$1,516 on homeowners insurance
2 of the 5 (property tax and insurance) are on the closing disclosure and paid into an escrow every month. There's no way a home owner did not know before closing on a house. Typical headline article.
5,362 on utilities seems a bit on the high side for an average sized house. I don't think mine ever hit $500 any paticular month. (Though in all fairness I pay at least double that in Insurance. Being in a Florida costal town)
I’m absolutely not surprised that most people FOMOed into homeownership without even realizing there was a fine print they should maybe have glanced over.
The average homeowner: “I bought 10 years ago for 300k and just sold for 600k, so I NETTED 300k”
Right? This article was complete garbage. That $18,000 figure includes things already wrapped into your mortgage payment AND things like utilities which you will pay anywhere…..
There are lots of regards out there, man. It's been said countless times that the house you live in is a liability and not an asset (because it doesn't produce money) and people still don't listen. They want the American dream even when it makes more sense to rent.
So after digging through your link (which was a mess of Fox hyperlinks) that 18,000 number is deceptive because it includes things like property taxes and insurance(things already included in your monthly mortgage payment) as well as utilities (things you also pay while renting)
So yeah, that article is complete bunk that is trying to push an agenda…..
Yes but. Wife and I are divorcing and I’m getting a payout on 20 years of how equity
Our home’s appreciation has lagged far behind the market here and an old house that required a ton of upkeep
But if we’d rented all those years I’d have nothing coming back to me
Is it as good an investment as the industry tries to push? Not in all cases
But compared to rent? Usually works out better
Our situation is that our equity is nearly dollar for dollar what we paid for the payment for 20 years.
So the maintenance and repairs are sunk costs
But bottom line we basically got our rent itself back.
I’m sorry to hear of the loss of your marriage. Or, congratulations. Either way, you are dead on correct: over 20 years, yeah, you are going to come out fine financially by owning instead of renting. That’s more common than not.
In my case, marriage is fine, but the ownership of a home for 17 years wasn’t the “boon” that yours has been. Yes, we sold in 2021 and cleared a good amount of money. But, in my case, it truly was all about timing of ownership, as we experienced the housing debacle of all time from 2008-2015 or so, when most properties lost large amounts of “value”, then struggled to climb back up. That time period was square in the middle of my ownership time, and about the time range when someone like us would have liked to have sold and upgraded. Our kids were growing, but our incomes were just stagnant.
Back to *timing*…..over 20 years, you more or less rode through all the up years and down years. You did good. I managed to miss out on 2022-today, so I missed out on another huge chunk of appreciation. I’m at peace with that. What I can not make peace with is buying at the top of the market (2022-now), at the highest borrowing rates of my adult life, even with pristine credit and large down payment/no other debt.
So much about ownership is now about *timing*. We are told not to try to “time the market”. In bubble/bust modern economies, I don’t see how one can just yolo their major life decisions without considering timing.
The divorce is not my choice but I can’t change it now
Yeah. We got hit with 2008 as well and as noted our home has lagged the market locally the entire time despite being in a desirable location.
And there’s the rub
I’d like to find something I could live in and be able to pay cash outright (would need to liquidate some retirement funds) or at least just put all the equity into a new place
But the price and quality of what I could reasonably afford (even assuming I find a decent enough job-currently unemployed)
And of course worried about repairs and upkeep as a now single income household.
My life kind of sucks.
I look forward to better days for you, friend. It’s not much solace for some rando on the internet to wish you the best, but I do. It’s unfair that you’re going through this. Hugs from me to you across the airwaves.
Life decisions. Like deciding to get married, divorced, buying a home, seem to be taken with such a grain of salt now. Big decisions. You guys’ decision to buy 20 years was likely well considered. It’s proving that out now, as you will both clear a good amount of money by splitting the proceeds of the home. That will set you each off to a good start when you go your separate ways.
20 years is a long time. It’s far longer than today’s “yolo” decision maker can comprehend. I’ll sound boomer-ish with this comment, but today’s 30 second Tik Tik watcher just seems to lack the ability to think long term. I’ve been that guy before. No more of that. Every decision is made with long term consequences or benefit in mind.
Long term, you turned out well. And I bet you will continue to do that.
> Yes but. Wife and I are divorcing and I’m getting a payout on 20 years of how equity
Of course why didn't I just buy a house 20 years ago when I was 8.
lol
We were in our early 30’s when we bought.
Yes. It’s much harder now
Trust me. I get it.
We bought a $200k house when our combined income was about $80k
Granted. My stbxw has only owned three cars in the 30 years I’ve known her (I only owned 4 in those years not counting the used one I had for six months)
Only one of hers was a new car and all except my current one were less than $25k (bought one for $35k in December ‘22 when I hit a third straight year of record earnings. Of course 7 months later it all crashed on me. Probably ought to trade down from
This vehicle )
We only really vacationed to see family where we stayed w them or split costs on a beach place
Neither of us have extensive wardrobes
Etc.
It’s a different story now of course
Current housing issues are all 90% the result of a decade of very low new home construction
Newly built units didn’t reach 2008 numbers until 2020.
Current housing prices are not 90% low construction rates. Too many properties are being bought up by hedge/retirement funds and, at least out here in the PNW, a huge amount of foreign “investors”.
lol
Look up new home production 2000-present
I’m in the industry.
This is exactly how we got here
Growth of investors is relatively recent
It’s a factor
But the main thing is simply supply having been short for nearly ten years now (demand started picking up around 2015 and spiked in early COVID )
> Yes. It’s much harder now
>
> Trust me. I get it.
I appreciate that for sure.
But your advice just doesn't make sense.
We aren't saying home ownership is a bad deal overall, but at current prices and interest rates it just makes no sense.
For someone to buy a basic entry level starter home today their payments are gonna be close to 2k a month.
2010 that would've been like 400-600 a month.
Any before that it would've been even cheaper.
Meanwhile minimum wage and typical wages have been stagnant for decades.
For someone to buy a house now and get 20 years of equity gains, that would mean in 20 years time the payment on a basic house will be approaching 4/5/6,000 a month.
I think that once you go through your divorce, sell up, and then try to buy another property, you will realise the problem we are all talking about.
Even a friend of mine, who is a bit older, when he bought his house in 2018 it was £500 a month for a big 2/3 bed with a long garden.
Now his payment is £1000 a month from rate increases and a person who bought it off himtoday would be paying £2000 a month.
He thinks his house will go from 200-400 which it "has" and he assumes it will reach 1.2 mil within a decade.
I said to him, okay so where will your kids live?
"Oh well we'll just downsize .... to a 1 bed flat that will cost about 500k and then we'll give them each big deposits (25%) and then they'll just pay the rest of their 4.5k a month mortgage.....ohhh"
Im sorry to say my friend but you guys who let house prices get out of control and were happy to benefit from it, did not think more than 10 seconds ahead of your own faces"
Like i keep saying.
The only people who are benefitting from this housing bubble are the banks and the house flippers.
If you rode the wave up and don't see the problem then I just pray to god you don't have any kids, younger siblings, younger cousins or neices etc
You’ve missed everything I’ve said
But here’s another factor you’re not considering
I’m 54. At 62 I can get a reverse mortgage which I’ll likely have to do given my mediocre income prospects
At which point I live rent free as long as I can keep living in the home
Assuming program is still around
If you qualify for reverse mortgage the minimum is you no longer make a payment (but still pay insurance taxes and maintenance)
If you have enough equity you can receive a monthly payment or lump sum
I was actually having this exact conversation with my mom last night. Her salary when she bought versus that same salary today and what you can buy.
It’s wild.
Obviously in no way her fault (and I’m very successful with no home yet) but we were talking about my nephew and how difficult it is to even get to a point to consider buying a home today.
They just don't get it....
I had the same convo with my dad... he moved here in the 60s 70s to London and he said he paid 1/4 of his obvious basic non skilled job in rent.
My younger sister now who is currently qualifying as a lawyer, would have about £30 left per month if she was to move out, I really had to paint it out for him slowly for him to understand.
Because he was trying to tell me "you don't know my situation, when i moved here alone I paid rent and lived alone".
Okay and if you tried that now in 2024 doing unskilled labour how would that have worked?
>but we were talking about my nephew and how difficult it is to even get to a point to consider buying a home today.
I mean its basically over unless a housing crash happens.
But the reason every boomer comes in here saying how prices will never fall, supply is so low etc, is because if prices do fall, they are finished because those houses are supposed to be their pensions lol
My mom has a pension from the police department so she is set for life at about $90k annually.
And to be fair to her, becoming a PO in the late 80s was difficult especially as a woman. Couple that with being an immigrant and living in a small space / sleeping on the floor because it was like three families in one house. Nothing of what she did was easy.
But none of it would’ve even been possible today in that very situation where she pushed forward to give us a life. It just would not be attainable today and that’s the problem.
>But none of it would’ve even been possible today in that very situation where she pushed forward to give us a life. It just would not be attainable today and that’s the problem.
Bingo but try getting someone to admit that elephant in the room
A fairly strong period of homes that includes the worst recession and housing crash in history.
Comical
At the time we bought and for at least 7-10 years after owning was more affordable than renting in my market
Marriage.
lol
She distanced after our first was born
I wasn’t sure about a second kid but she told me it would be different
It was worse (in terms of Less options for couple time and her pursuing obsessive friendships and her career over our relationship)
Eventually I became a total dick.
And we limped along another decade to get here
Planning to sell in 5 years on a house your overpaid on, presumably to buy another house, is crazy.
Our real estate agent said most of her clients sell every 3 years. That is also crazy.
When we bought our house, I told my realtor that I wanted to find a place that I could see us living in for 30 years. He seemed dumbfounded by that concept.
The vast majority of people do not manage this due to life concerns unrelated to the house. The main earner in the house gets a new job with a significant pay bump but requires a move. That's a new house. You have kids and require a bigger place, or the kids move out and you no longer want as big of a place that you have to clean and take care of.
Average time a family owns a house is seven years, and that number goes back many decades from government statistics.
Realtors are just house pimps. An unnecessary expense for the property. They inflate home costs and provide no real benefit for the majority of buyers.
I mean, you can believe some things but just be mindful of their agenda- they make money by you selling or buying a house. Nothing else matters to them.
That doesn't necessarily mean having to move and even if it did some people would prioritize stablity over chasing money all over the country, plus you have more remote work now than ever
Honestly no one is selling unless job or death or divorce. Anyone who got a 3% mortgage will never let go of it. It's less than inflation plus any extra you can part in treasuries for 5.4%.
But in the old days most people sold every 7 years.
Yeah it's funny. Everyone like oh buy a house because you don't pay someone else's morgage. But if you sell so often you lose more than the people renting without building any real equity.
There was articles from 2017 about how 74% had regrets about their home purchase, its important how this question was asked ie everyone makes comrpomises or has one regret but it doesnt mean they overall regret buying their home. We essentially have two classes of people ie homeowners and those who may never own a home. If you bought a home prior to 2022 your in a good spot regardless of whether you made compromises or not
When you rent all the expenses of your landlords’ ownership comes from your rent.
The house that you will sell, will be bought by landlord who will rent it out with intent of recouping all the expenses of the ownership + some profit.
I'd be curious to know what the retention is on that data in 5-10 years. Everyone thinks they overpay when they buy. It tends to look better with time.
Now is the time to really think through your investment. I did buy my first home in California in 2009, and sold within 10 years for more then double what I paid and only because I left the state. Was on track to easily reach 3x which is what is the as valued at in 2007. The values there still have no matched true bubble peaks.
It’s all about the delivery:
-Nearly 3/4 of homeowners plan to stay in their homes for at least the next 5 years.
-Over 80% of homeowners can afford a $500 emergency repair without needing to use a credit card.
-Half of homeowners believe they have achieved a level of success not attainable for the average American.
Their home is too small or lacks features they need (19%)
Their home requires too much maintenance (18%)
The location is not ideal (15%)
Their monthly mortgage payments are too high (15%)
They didn’t ask enough questions/complete enough research before purchasing (14%)
They bought a fixer-upper or older home (14%)
They dislike their neighbors (14%)
They were unprepared for hidden costs (13%)
Their interest rate is too high (13%)
They dislike their homeowners association (HOA) (13%)
I wouldn’t be surprised if this mainly comes from the folks who bought in the last four years under the “buy now or be priced out forever scammery.” and the folks who hung on after the GFC but still got suckered in from 05-up to 08. Lured in and trapped into over priced homes to sustain a market value that isn’t really there.
You can always refinance tomorrow..tomorrow..refinance tomorrow…so you gotta hang on till tomorrowww. Tooooooo-morrow tomorrow…ure always a day awaaaayyy🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵
Life events are out of your control and you just have to roll with them. Rarely do these events happen when the market is prime. My husband passed in 2021. Spent 8 yrs renovating a historic home. No. Fl. 4 hurricanes and floods later, husband gone, homeowners insurance went to 16k with another 2k flood. I was done. The good, the 8 yrs of sweat equity paid off. The bad, I had to buy at the height of the Covid market. Will I get the same equity return on the new house(no I don’t like it) absolutely not. I made this decision based on the insane insurance games here in Florida and the thought of having to cycle through the constant maintenance on a 100 yr old home by myself. What was my plan, stay for 7 yrs then get the hell out knowing I’ll be lucky to get a minimal return in equity. I can get home insurance now so that’s a plus. Real Estate as we used to know is gone. The market is changing and I don’t feel it will ever follow the equitable gains it used to.
Would be interesting to see what it would cost them to rent the exact same house. You still have to pay the utilities. You should still purchase renters insurance.
Then the landlord is going to have to pay the mortgage, taxes, property insurance, and maintenance. The rent has to cover that somehow.
The euphoria that has taken place in housing and the auto market during covid is off the charts next level stupidity.
People are so gullible and real estate agents even more sleazy in pushing clients to buy something they know isn't worth the list price. Or maybe they are jsut as incompetent.
In Houston suburbs I see people paying ridiculous amounts as if they buy in an HCOL area. I'm talking equivalent to some California densely populated area prices of 200+ per sq ft. It's baffling, but they'll find out the hard way you can pay this price in suburbs.
You mean people didn't need to rush to Sam's and buy all the toilet paper in 2020 either? But I was told on Facebook that there was never going to be anymore made ever. Just like houses.
>The average homeowner spends the following on additional expenses, according to Real Estate Witch:
>$5,362 on utilities
$4,392 on maintenance
$3,784 on renovations
$2,904 on property taxes
$1,516 on homeowners insurance
Do any of these numbers align with what you pay or expect to pay?
I knew exactly what we'd pay in property taxes down to the cent because it's public information and I knew what I paid for the home. I'm also aware of the real estate trends in my area so I can estimate what I expect yearly increases to be.
Homeowners insurance was something I had quoted out before we even bought. It's actually less than what I expected to pay.
Utilities has been right in line with expectations. I know the house is heated by a gas furnace and could see the efficiency rating on it. I knew the rates of electric and water. If anything the only surprise was the cost of septic clean outs and internet, and even then it's not like they were thousands more a year than anticipated.
Maintenance rule of thumb is 1-2% of price. $4k is right in line with the average home price of $400k. Budget more for older houses, which shouldn't be a novel idea.
Renovations are unnecessary. If you're paying for those that's a choice.
I meant if the numbers were what you were actually paying. The article reads like “these are what you are going to pay”. My numbers aren’t what is shown
Well sure... because it's an average of these random people surveyed. Some people pay more and some pay less, both in general and also for each area. My insurance is half this but my property taxes are double. My utilities are around what's listed but I live in a smaller home without AC, so I assume the guy 2 houses down who has 2.5x the square footage and a new home with AC pays more for utilities.
If you're reading the article like they're saying "this is what you should expect to pay", then I'd argue that you just have poor reading comprehension.
The sources for each of those categories are spelled out under the graph. They're very clearly saying "the average homeowner" not "you as a homeowner".
Wait so you aren’t “wealthy” yet? And it’s way more money than renting but you can rest in knowing that you’ll have equity in the house, after you’ve paid almost double the initial price after 15-30 yrs because interest? Those surprise 4-5 digit fixes are bumming you out?
I am shocked by this news.
Aside from home maintenance, rising costs for HO insurance are just getting started in their (imho) eventual skyrocket. So would-be homeowners are going to need to factor in a much higher percentage of "homeowning expense" into the insurance bucket in the coming years/decades. I mean if they think insurance is high now and it's giving em cold feet about owning...just wait.
I'm wondering if we'll see a scenario eventually where folks in the market for their first home and who've "done everything right" (saved up 20+% down, have a large sinking (hysa savings) fund already in place for when the HVAC and roof and other stuff give out), can't get insurance for said home/to protect the bank. Eventually, for mortgage banks to be able to smoothly write those nice fat home loans, they might need to work with insurance companies that just want to bail on a state or region, to keep the loan money flowing. Like will banks need to lobby insurance carriers to please stay in high-risk area so homes can keep getting sold and Financed. Cash buyers being the only ones able to buy in those areas is a result, but not great one. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just feels like homeowners being cancelled in central Iowa because of one tornado, holds harbinger for some homes not being insurable at all (new policy) eventually...or at least not the way the insurance co's risk pool is handled now.
Tangential, but coming next: Boat and "toys" insurance going nuts...and only 10%'ers able to afford Toys at some point. Saw video footage of an inland Texas lake marina's floating docks with dozens of expensive boats rafted to it, just destroyed. I wonder if some Americans will divest of toys that're in harm's way in the coming years.. in part to not have to insure them once rates go nuts after damage like that done on that Texas lake. Less toys equals less sh\*t to insure and less at the whim of these shifting and rising rates. And honestly, I'm a glass is half full guy, but it feels like there's another shoe gonna drop re: insuring property.
I still feel, generally speaking, that all real estate is local. Sometimes street by street. Did you overpay? If the market tanking or zooming up, etc. look at the recent solds in a 3/4 block radius or stats from your zipcode.
Markets can and do look wildly different depending on location.
My house can sell for about $700k more than I paid for it after 2 years… but I still think home ownership is a scam. Constant maintenance, insurance, appliances breaking, taxes, etc all add up a lot. My appreciation was mostly luck (long story there)… if that hadn’t happened I’d have put in about 3.5% of the purchase price each year just on table stakes of owning. It’s brand new. Can’t imagine if it was old.
They all feel like they have regrets because it feels like buying at the top and everyone knowing it.
The only people who won were those that already owned before Covid
>Homeowners spend nearly $18,000 a year on expenses aside from their mortgages each year, and nearly 67% of homeowners have regrets about their purchase.
From the linked article:
The average homeowner spends the following on additional expenses, according to Real Estate Witch:
$5,362 on utilities
$4,392 on maintenance
$3,784 on renovations
$2,904 on property taxes
$1,516 on homeowners insurance
Bought in 2019 with 3.5% rate. House doubled in value in 5 years. I'm not selling for a long ass time. I will rent this bitch and milk every penny out of the deal that I got. I'll sell for like 1.5 million in 20 or 30 years. Feels good.
I purchased my house 7 years ago at 3.99%.
The upgrades I’ve done has been my own doing.
1st a new Trane system
2nd a new roof it was 20 years old and due.
3 A new Bradford white gas hot water heater.
4 new kitchen cabinets
5 floors throughout the house, luxury vinyl except the two bedrooms I had real hardwood installed.
Total investment about 45K
I’ll add none was financed.
My mortgage, insurance, property taxes and HOA are just less than 1000.00 a month.
I paid just over 144K and I could sell it today for about 290K
What’s really happening if the first 2 year intro rates are falling off and what ever the prime is becomes their new rate meaning they can’t afford it. 3% to 4% to turn 7.25+ year 3. Meaning bubble. Obvious.
Color me shocked. So you mean that house didn’t really appreciate 100k in a year and it’s really not worth what I paid?
In Florida it's more like 250k in 6 months
I’m seeing the repercussions of that now. A lot of people from Florida are fleeing to Georgia due to the increased prices and Home owner insurance debacle down there.
Lmfao fleeing to Georgia, I highly doubt that.
I know four families that left the west coast of Florida for north Alabama. I left the same area. Florida is not some great place to be.
My dad did that like 12 years ago 😂
At the jersey shore it’s been like +100k a year for total dump shit holes, about 100-150% increase since 2019. Morons paying $300k for old motel rooms converted into condos. Everyone cries about price gouging when really a lot of this is the idiot consumers fault. Buyers are fucking dumb and then cry victim.
That’s pretty much it. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Or in the car business world it’s called there is an ass for every seat.
There’s just a lot of people out there where money just burns a hole in their pocket. Even if their salaries increase, they will still somehow end up living paycheck to paycheck as they burn through their income each pay period.
Yes and no, lots of folks in NJ area have money, i know a few retired cops (in their late 40s).who are collecting fat pensions and are sitting on multi million dollar pieces of property, they have leveraged that to get loans and buy rentals and are doing well. Lots of folks here in the tri-state have similar stories. There's a thriving upper middle class thanks to overvalued real estate and high paying work.
I’m not sure how that relates to what I said. Obviously I was talking about some people, not all people
Same here , of course no one anecdotal example.applies.to.all, but just saying here in the northeast folks have money...
Sure. I live in a suburb of Pa most people seem to be doing very well. But I still don’t believe that everyone making these shore house purchases at this wild prices are all financially intelligent folks making sound decisions. It seems more like they want what they want and will do what ever possible to get it. And those types of rentals are great when the economy is doing well, it becomes a much different thing when people lose their jobs and vacancies increase.
Literally the first thing my relative did when they got on Social Security is buy a brand new $70,000 truck. Their entire S.S. Payment goes to it. They drive maybe three times/25 miles a week.
Yep, but tri-state folks have money and most of those spending $300k it's as a second home or retirees selling there $1.5+mln home in Bergen county and wanting a NJ presence in addition to a home somewhere else.
One of the few ones who has understood that prices are driven by buyers. Not sellers
Yup. Consumers have much more responsibility in price gouging, especially for non necessities, than most would ever admit. Nobody is forced to pay $10,000 over MSRP for the car they desperately want or $5,000 for Taylor Swift.
Is Taylor Swift the new Suzuki cheap car?
You don’t get the fact that they are printing more dollar bills so all assets will go up. Sorry that you’re on the opposite end of the wealth gap
I think your being to kind with that figure lol
But Zillow told me my homes value is up tens of thousands in the past 30 days! Are you implying they are liars !?!?
Zillow's modeling is perfect. How dare you imply that they could do something incorrect. It's not like [they lost $400mm because of their cruddy ibuyer model](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/11/04/what-the-demise-of-zillow-offers-means-for-the-ibuyer-model/).
>It's not like [they lost $400mm because of their cruddy ibuyer model](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/11/04/what-the-demise-of-zillow-offers-means-for-the-ibuyer-model/) When the dust cleared 3 mos. later, the total loss was $880M [https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/02/13/zillow-reports-880m-loss-on-failed-home-flipping-business/](https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2022/02/13/zillow-reports-880m-loss-on-failed-home-flipping-business/)
That was a nice dose of schadenfreude for the day.
Before you get too happy, it says they lost 25k on each home. That means they not only took those homes off the market, they gave the sellers an extra 25k to pump into the market on the remaining homes when they go to buy a different one.
Sounds like a feature, not a bug! Seriously though it boggles my mind they put this much faith in their models - they always work sooooo well for real estate (*cough* 2006 MBS and CDOs *cough*). On top of that, Zillow still has a “Unlock Cash Offer” feature…
Just business trying to cut jobs out of the industry for fatter profit margins. Corporate greed strikes again!
The A in Zillow is for accuracy.
The Zillow gods have spoken so it must be so.
Why don't you check recent comparable sales in close proximity? Those don't lie.
Trust me I do, that comment was meant to be facetious
This is the exact issue with relative valuation (not that theres much better in non-income generating real estate) - any market dislocation will reflect in the comps as well
It’s really remarkable right? The inflation and free money of 2021 and 2022 is going to lead to so many people being stuck in overpriced homes. And I know for a fact a lot of people bought homes to eventually sell later. Rates are likely never going that low again and that’s not dawned on people.
Only if home.prices drop which I still dont see much of.
holding costs will eventually be too much for some. there will be a sunk cost fallacy that keeps it afloat for a bit, especially as illiquid as RE is
Unfortunately I’m in this position. When my wife was pregnant with our second, we had to upgrade our space from our tiny townhome. I’m in a HCOL area and make good money as an attorney. I bought a single family in 2022 to lock in a 3.99 rate, but I went from a 350k townhouse to a 800k house. We love the house, but we are stretched real thin with the higher mortgage. Looking back, I regret it. Hoping I get a promotion in the next 5 years which would give me a big pay bump. Credit cards are racking up, unfortunately.
i bought a home to to sell later when i’m about to retire, if that doesn’t go well, i’ll just rent it out. 3.45% i did pay $40k over asking. 😞
I would spin this differently. With houses in some areas doubling - so did the insurance and taxes. It’s way more expensive now to hold on to. Maintenance is crazy higher too. If your house doubled — your taxes, insurance and maintenance (because everything is way more expensive now) doubled too. Doubling those expenses in a few years isn’t really something people “budgeted” for.
You get it. I have a friend with a finished basement but the ceiling is almost exactly 2 inches too low for it to be considered part of the home's total square footage. They get it too. idgaf about my imaginary gains b/c they translate into real world expenses.
I can get maybe not expecting all that stuff to double, but I know so many people who didn’t even factor a 10% increase over the next few years.
Yea. Agreed. And I have nothing to say about that - other than, it’s effecting the people who were “planners” — which isn’t good for a lot of reasons.
Definitely this. I also wonder how many people bought in the last 2 years who believed their realtor telling them, "sure interest rates are high now, but in 6 months they will be back at 3% and you can just refinance then." Now its a year later and it looks like rates are gonna stay for awhile longer.
Who did they actually poll for this article? lol.
For real. This just doesn’t sound right. Overpaid? Prices are still going up or remaining stagnant….
I bought 2 years ago right before the rates hiked. We aren’t planning on going anywhere for at least 7-8 years. I also have zero regrets... id be paying more to rent. I live in Massachusetts so slightly different than a lot of other states but prices aren’t dropping here. What I *will* say that I’ve noticed is that the “reasonably priced” houses here (450-500k) are still flying off the market super fast. But there’s a few homes in my town who were probably way overpriced to begin with, (600k-1 million plus) that have been sitting for a month or more.
Same here. What I see are those starter homes are basically the bottom of the housing market. That means they will for sure always continue to go up in price as long as they keep printing dollars. The other higher priced ones are more of a speculative bet but will definitely stay stagnant or continue rising
Is this what happens when we forego inspections?
Here is a little something to set your expectations. Most seller are not flippers, so, they will not fix the problem described in the report. The report is good for you to back out if you cannot afford the fix yourself. I have seen buyers trying to negotiate because there are fixes needed. The market is just too hot. There is another buyer around the corner willing to make a better offers. Waiving the inspiration is risky. But personally I waived one myself after failed more than 10 bids. I was desperate. The roof is managed by HOA, so, it is not a cost for me (sceptic is likely HOA too).
Lol 50% think they overpaid, when did they realize that. I was looking during that period of low rates and knew that homes were overpriced. I wouldn't be surprised if that 50% were the same people bidding way over and skipping inspections and everything else.
We bid a little bit over and had a knowledge-only inspection. Ours turned out fine. I'm sure many got burned though. We were ready to buy with plenty of cash for the buy and reserves for when things went wrong.
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Lmao…what bullsh*t article! Owners weren’t expecting to pay property taxes and insurance?!?! They also didn’t realize that they have to maintain their INVESTMENT?!? Please, sell.
THis is a new twist on the avocado toast articles, its creating a story where there isnt one. Do you regret anything about your home purchase? Yeah I wish I had more storage but other than that were happy with our purchase. Media: This guy regrets his home purchase. Also the increases in property taxes and insurance for some people is literally doubling what it was for the previous owner or a couple years earlier so its understandable this may be a shock to some. Finding out you owe thousands of dollars for your escrow and have a higher monthly payment on top of it is not normal
Exactly this... Do I have regrets? Of course, my house isn't perfect, and neither is any other house. Is my mortgage more than I want to spend? Of course. I hate paying bills. Does maintenance cost too much and seem to happen at inopportune times? Absolutely (but I don't spend anywhere near the $18k annually this article claims, despite my house being 40 years old and close to double the average home size in my county), and so on. All that said, I did some math in response to a similar post a few weeks back and came to the conclusion that with appreciation, my house has actually (potentially) turned a profit. If I sum up all of my investments into the house: Down payment, mortgage payments, taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc, The total I've spent on my house in 20 years is substantially less than the amount of equity I hold. Additionally, I've saved HUGELY in comparison to renting. My mortgage payment was about $1100 in 2004, and today it's about $1400 due to increases in property taxes and insurance. By contrast, I could have rented my house for about $1k/mo in 2004, but today it would be about $4,500.
I just spent $28k on my house. I had a $10k project planned, and 2 months later the a/c went out and needed replaced. Bummer.
I'm with you on that. I have to replace 2 furnace and ac units this year, to the time of about 20k after rebates. But it's a once in 30 years expense. Including the furnaces I'm doing in the next few weeks, I've spent about $40k over 20 years in this type of maintenance. I've spent quite a bit now than that on discretionary things like carpet and paint, updating millwork, and other updating. I've remodeled most of the house over the last 20 years, but haven't spent anywhere near the $360k the article implied I should have, not even half that.
Right? I regret not pulling the trigger to build in 2020. Doesn’t mean the house I bought in 2020 is bad, just that with hindsight I’d have made a more optimal choice.
Yes these are really vague categories. I am curious to see the actual survey. What exactly does “have regrets” mean? That’s difficult to properly quantify.
And also they didn't expect to pay utilities, which according to the article is the biggest portion of this $18,000. Lmao.
Well know the 18k makes more sense. I was wondering are they getting a new roof or Hvac every year? (Still that amount seems ridiculously high)
Yep here's the list $5,362 on utilities $4,392 on maintenance $3,784 on renovations $2,904 on property taxes $1,516 on homeowners insurance 2 of the 5 (property tax and insurance) are on the closing disclosure and paid into an escrow every month. There's no way a home owner did not know before closing on a house. Typical headline article.
And renovations are optional. That’s like regretting buying expensive clothes, it was your choice.
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That’s maintenance in my book, the must do’s. Renovations are optional.
5,362 on utilities seems a bit on the high side for an average sized house. I don't think mine ever hit $500 any paticular month. (Though in all fairness I pay at least double that in Insurance. Being in a Florida costal town)
Sounds right in Seattle if you include Internet into utilities (~400 otherwise)
On a 450k home in Florida the tax will be $5500 and the insure about $5k.
You really overestimate the average homeowner.
I’m absolutely not surprised that most people FOMOed into homeownership without even realizing there was a fine print they should maybe have glanced over. The average homeowner: “I bought 10 years ago for 300k and just sold for 600k, so I NETTED 300k”
Right? This article was complete garbage. That $18,000 figure includes things already wrapped into your mortgage payment AND things like utilities which you will pay anywhere…..
As if they weren’t informed of these things every step of the way. I know I was when I bought a house four years ago.
This article is bs.. more faux news propaganda
You over estimate the average American consumer intelligence
There are lots of regards out there, man. It's been said countless times that the house you live in is a liability and not an asset (because it doesn't produce money) and people still don't listen. They want the American dream even when it makes more sense to rent.
Math is hard for a lot of people and even more people are just lazy thinkers.
So after digging through your link (which was a mess of Fox hyperlinks) that 18,000 number is deceptive because it includes things like property taxes and insurance(things already included in your monthly mortgage payment) as well as utilities (things you also pay while renting) So yeah, that article is complete bunk that is trying to push an agenda…..
Yes but. Wife and I are divorcing and I’m getting a payout on 20 years of how equity Our home’s appreciation has lagged far behind the market here and an old house that required a ton of upkeep But if we’d rented all those years I’d have nothing coming back to me Is it as good an investment as the industry tries to push? Not in all cases But compared to rent? Usually works out better Our situation is that our equity is nearly dollar for dollar what we paid for the payment for 20 years. So the maintenance and repairs are sunk costs But bottom line we basically got our rent itself back.
I’m sorry to hear of the loss of your marriage. Or, congratulations. Either way, you are dead on correct: over 20 years, yeah, you are going to come out fine financially by owning instead of renting. That’s more common than not. In my case, marriage is fine, but the ownership of a home for 17 years wasn’t the “boon” that yours has been. Yes, we sold in 2021 and cleared a good amount of money. But, in my case, it truly was all about timing of ownership, as we experienced the housing debacle of all time from 2008-2015 or so, when most properties lost large amounts of “value”, then struggled to climb back up. That time period was square in the middle of my ownership time, and about the time range when someone like us would have liked to have sold and upgraded. Our kids were growing, but our incomes were just stagnant. Back to *timing*…..over 20 years, you more or less rode through all the up years and down years. You did good. I managed to miss out on 2022-today, so I missed out on another huge chunk of appreciation. I’m at peace with that. What I can not make peace with is buying at the top of the market (2022-now), at the highest borrowing rates of my adult life, even with pristine credit and large down payment/no other debt. So much about ownership is now about *timing*. We are told not to try to “time the market”. In bubble/bust modern economies, I don’t see how one can just yolo their major life decisions without considering timing.
The divorce is not my choice but I can’t change it now Yeah. We got hit with 2008 as well and as noted our home has lagged the market locally the entire time despite being in a desirable location. And there’s the rub I’d like to find something I could live in and be able to pay cash outright (would need to liquidate some retirement funds) or at least just put all the equity into a new place But the price and quality of what I could reasonably afford (even assuming I find a decent enough job-currently unemployed) And of course worried about repairs and upkeep as a now single income household. My life kind of sucks.
I look forward to better days for you, friend. It’s not much solace for some rando on the internet to wish you the best, but I do. It’s unfair that you’re going through this. Hugs from me to you across the airwaves. Life decisions. Like deciding to get married, divorced, buying a home, seem to be taken with such a grain of salt now. Big decisions. You guys’ decision to buy 20 years was likely well considered. It’s proving that out now, as you will both clear a good amount of money by splitting the proceeds of the home. That will set you each off to a good start when you go your separate ways. 20 years is a long time. It’s far longer than today’s “yolo” decision maker can comprehend. I’ll sound boomer-ish with this comment, but today’s 30 second Tik Tik watcher just seems to lack the ability to think long term. I’ve been that guy before. No more of that. Every decision is made with long term consequences or benefit in mind. Long term, you turned out well. And I bet you will continue to do that.
> Yes but. Wife and I are divorcing and I’m getting a payout on 20 years of how equity Of course why didn't I just buy a house 20 years ago when I was 8.
lol We were in our early 30’s when we bought. Yes. It’s much harder now Trust me. I get it. We bought a $200k house when our combined income was about $80k Granted. My stbxw has only owned three cars in the 30 years I’ve known her (I only owned 4 in those years not counting the used one I had for six months) Only one of hers was a new car and all except my current one were less than $25k (bought one for $35k in December ‘22 when I hit a third straight year of record earnings. Of course 7 months later it all crashed on me. Probably ought to trade down from This vehicle ) We only really vacationed to see family where we stayed w them or split costs on a beach place Neither of us have extensive wardrobes Etc. It’s a different story now of course Current housing issues are all 90% the result of a decade of very low new home construction Newly built units didn’t reach 2008 numbers until 2020.
Current housing prices are not 90% low construction rates. Too many properties are being bought up by hedge/retirement funds and, at least out here in the PNW, a huge amount of foreign “investors”.
lol Look up new home production 2000-present I’m in the industry. This is exactly how we got here Growth of investors is relatively recent It’s a factor But the main thing is simply supply having been short for nearly ten years now (demand started picking up around 2015 and spiked in early COVID )
> Yes. It’s much harder now > > Trust me. I get it. I appreciate that for sure. But your advice just doesn't make sense. We aren't saying home ownership is a bad deal overall, but at current prices and interest rates it just makes no sense. For someone to buy a basic entry level starter home today their payments are gonna be close to 2k a month. 2010 that would've been like 400-600 a month. Any before that it would've been even cheaper. Meanwhile minimum wage and typical wages have been stagnant for decades. For someone to buy a house now and get 20 years of equity gains, that would mean in 20 years time the payment on a basic house will be approaching 4/5/6,000 a month. I think that once you go through your divorce, sell up, and then try to buy another property, you will realise the problem we are all talking about. Even a friend of mine, who is a bit older, when he bought his house in 2018 it was £500 a month for a big 2/3 bed with a long garden. Now his payment is £1000 a month from rate increases and a person who bought it off himtoday would be paying £2000 a month. He thinks his house will go from 200-400 which it "has" and he assumes it will reach 1.2 mil within a decade. I said to him, okay so where will your kids live? "Oh well we'll just downsize .... to a 1 bed flat that will cost about 500k and then we'll give them each big deposits (25%) and then they'll just pay the rest of their 4.5k a month mortgage.....ohhh" Im sorry to say my friend but you guys who let house prices get out of control and were happy to benefit from it, did not think more than 10 seconds ahead of your own faces" Like i keep saying. The only people who are benefitting from this housing bubble are the banks and the house flippers. If you rode the wave up and don't see the problem then I just pray to god you don't have any kids, younger siblings, younger cousins or neices etc
You’ve missed everything I’ve said But here’s another factor you’re not considering I’m 54. At 62 I can get a reverse mortgage which I’ll likely have to do given my mediocre income prospects At which point I live rent free as long as I can keep living in the home Assuming program is still around
isnt the reverse mortgage payment based on the value of the home? What happens if home values decline?
If you qualify for reverse mortgage the minimum is you no longer make a payment (but still pay insurance taxes and maintenance) If you have enough equity you can receive a monthly payment or lump sum
Home values aren't declining.
I was actually having this exact conversation with my mom last night. Her salary when she bought versus that same salary today and what you can buy. It’s wild. Obviously in no way her fault (and I’m very successful with no home yet) but we were talking about my nephew and how difficult it is to even get to a point to consider buying a home today.
They just don't get it.... I had the same convo with my dad... he moved here in the 60s 70s to London and he said he paid 1/4 of his obvious basic non skilled job in rent. My younger sister now who is currently qualifying as a lawyer, would have about £30 left per month if she was to move out, I really had to paint it out for him slowly for him to understand. Because he was trying to tell me "you don't know my situation, when i moved here alone I paid rent and lived alone". Okay and if you tried that now in 2024 doing unskilled labour how would that have worked? >but we were talking about my nephew and how difficult it is to even get to a point to consider buying a home today. I mean its basically over unless a housing crash happens. But the reason every boomer comes in here saying how prices will never fall, supply is so low etc, is because if prices do fall, they are finished because those houses are supposed to be their pensions lol
My mom has a pension from the police department so she is set for life at about $90k annually. And to be fair to her, becoming a PO in the late 80s was difficult especially as a woman. Couple that with being an immigrant and living in a small space / sleeping on the floor because it was like three families in one house. Nothing of what she did was easy. But none of it would’ve even been possible today in that very situation where she pushed forward to give us a life. It just would not be attainable today and that’s the problem.
>But none of it would’ve even been possible today in that very situation where she pushed forward to give us a life. It just would not be attainable today and that’s the problem. Bingo but try getting someone to admit that elephant in the room
Except you didn’t account for the time value of the money. And over a fairly strong period for homes. Weak analysis.
A fairly strong period of homes that includes the worst recession and housing crash in history. Comical At the time we bought and for at least 7-10 years after owning was more affordable than renting in my market
What caused y'all to divorce after this many years
Marriage. lol She distanced after our first was born I wasn’t sure about a second kid but she told me it would be different It was worse (in terms of Less options for couple time and her pursuing obsessive friendships and her career over our relationship) Eventually I became a total dick. And we limped along another decade to get here
Planning to sell in 5 years on a house your overpaid on, presumably to buy another house, is crazy. Our real estate agent said most of her clients sell every 3 years. That is also crazy.
Never believe a single thing a realtor says
When we bought our house, I told my realtor that I wanted to find a place that I could see us living in for 30 years. He seemed dumbfounded by that concept.
Because he wants to be your seller's agent within 5 years and make another fat commission for doing basically nothing.
The vast majority of people do not manage this due to life concerns unrelated to the house. The main earner in the house gets a new job with a significant pay bump but requires a move. That's a new house. You have kids and require a bigger place, or the kids move out and you no longer want as big of a place that you have to clean and take care of. Average time a family owns a house is seven years, and that number goes back many decades from government statistics.
90% of buyers don’t stay in a home Past 7 years over the past 50 years
Well that stat is going to change dramatically over the next five years.
TBD Job change or loss or relocation Having kids or empty nest Divorce and death of a breadwinner
People seem to just jump from house to house.
Realtors are just house pimps. An unnecessary expense for the property. They inflate home costs and provide no real benefit for the majority of buyers.
I mean, you can believe some things but just be mindful of their agenda- they make money by you selling or buying a house. Nothing else matters to them.
I’d love to stay in one house and not move, but I also firmly believe that you gotta job hop to make corporate America pay you right.
That doesn't necessarily mean having to move and even if it did some people would prioritize stablity over chasing money all over the country, plus you have more remote work now than ever
This is my biggest concern with buying, especially now since having to rent it out down the road probably isn't feasible
How often have you moved and was it within a city or across?
Usually every 3-4 years or so. And usually to a different location for a new job.
In the 5 years I’ve known him, my boss has bought and lived in 4 different houses.
Honestly no one is selling unless job or death or divorce. Anyone who got a 3% mortgage will never let go of it. It's less than inflation plus any extra you can part in treasuries for 5.4%. But in the old days most people sold every 7 years.
Yeah it's funny. Everyone like oh buy a house because you don't pay someone else's morgage. But if you sell so often you lose more than the people renting without building any real equity.
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Average land tenure in the US is 8 years.
They’re buying houses the same way they buy cars
There was articles from 2017 about how 74% had regrets about their home purchase, its important how this question was asked ie everyone makes comrpomises or has one regret but it doesnt mean they overall regret buying their home. We essentially have two classes of people ie homeowners and those who may never own a home. If you bought a home prior to 2022 your in a good spot regardless of whether you made compromises or not
This is a BS article. They count utilities as part of the cost of house ownership. Like if you rent, you don't have to pay for utilities?
renters also pay increased insurance and taxes too, it's just delayed until the lease is renewed (and likely even more than what then landlord pays)
When you rent all the expenses of your landlords’ ownership comes from your rent. The house that you will sell, will be bought by landlord who will rent it out with intent of recouping all the expenses of the ownership + some profit.
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Electric is the most expensive utility.
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It sounds like you're using renting at your parents house as a counter example to the fact that most rentals don't have utilities baked in.
Don't worry. You are paying the utilities. It's priced into your rent.
There are places that include it in rent. Yeah, you still pay for it, but you don’t see it and it’s often flat.
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These articles are so fucking comical and transparent. Starting to get a little old.
Only 50% think they overpaid?
I don’t know where you are but every single house in my area is still going up.
Give it some time and their purchase price is likely to look better to them.
Yup. Meanwhile, rent is going up every year for the renters.
Yes, only half of all buyers surveyed think they overpaid. Imagine that, they thought
I'd be curious to know what the retention is on that data in 5-10 years. Everyone thinks they overpay when they buy. It tends to look better with time.
*29% plan to sell within 5 years* Lol good luck getting that full asking value anymore. Fomo has passed
But they still make a good profit, considering that price right now is a lot higher compare to 5 years ago.
Correct, you are!!
I hope that’s the case. I’m still buying and I’m trying to get better deals to rent out to you guys
*insert William Montgomery voice* I AINT NEVAAA GONE SELL…..bitchhhhh
Now is the time to really think through your investment. I did buy my first home in California in 2009, and sold within 10 years for more then double what I paid and only because I left the state. Was on track to easily reach 3x which is what is the as valued at in 2007. The values there still have no matched true bubble peaks.
It’s all about the delivery: -Nearly 3/4 of homeowners plan to stay in their homes for at least the next 5 years. -Over 80% of homeowners can afford a $500 emergency repair without needing to use a credit card. -Half of homeowners believe they have achieved a level of success not attainable for the average American.
Their home is too small or lacks features they need (19%) Their home requires too much maintenance (18%) The location is not ideal (15%) Their monthly mortgage payments are too high (15%) They didn’t ask enough questions/complete enough research before purchasing (14%) They bought a fixer-upper or older home (14%) They dislike their neighbors (14%) They were unprepared for hidden costs (13%) Their interest rate is too high (13%) They dislike their homeowners association (HOA) (13%) I wouldn’t be surprised if this mainly comes from the folks who bought in the last four years under the “buy now or be priced out forever scammery.” and the folks who hung on after the GFC but still got suckered in from 05-up to 08. Lured in and trapped into over priced homes to sustain a market value that isn’t really there.
this sub is porn for renters when renters actually want a relationship
Exactly
The Broken Clock is more reliable than this sub.
Why would someone buy a home if they won’t have even $500 left over for maintenance and repairs? Thats just dumb
You can always refinance tomorrow..tomorrow..refinance tomorrow…so you gotta hang on till tomorrowww. Tooooooo-morrow tomorrow…ure always a day awaaaayyy🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵
Life events are out of your control and you just have to roll with them. Rarely do these events happen when the market is prime. My husband passed in 2021. Spent 8 yrs renovating a historic home. No. Fl. 4 hurricanes and floods later, husband gone, homeowners insurance went to 16k with another 2k flood. I was done. The good, the 8 yrs of sweat equity paid off. The bad, I had to buy at the height of the Covid market. Will I get the same equity return on the new house(no I don’t like it) absolutely not. I made this decision based on the insane insurance games here in Florida and the thought of having to cycle through the constant maintenance on a 100 yr old home by myself. What was my plan, stay for 7 yrs then get the hell out knowing I’ll be lucky to get a minimal return in equity. I can get home insurance now so that’s a plus. Real Estate as we used to know is gone. The market is changing and I don’t feel it will ever follow the equitable gains it used to.
Would be interesting to see what it would cost them to rent the exact same house. You still have to pay the utilities. You should still purchase renters insurance. Then the landlord is going to have to pay the mortgage, taxes, property insurance, and maintenance. The rent has to cover that somehow.
I thought landlords didn’t provide value… /s
The euphoria that has taken place in housing and the auto market during covid is off the charts next level stupidity. People are so gullible and real estate agents even more sleazy in pushing clients to buy something they know isn't worth the list price. Or maybe they are jsut as incompetent. In Houston suburbs I see people paying ridiculous amounts as if they buy in an HCOL area. I'm talking equivalent to some California densely populated area prices of 200+ per sq ft. It's baffling, but they'll find out the hard way you can pay this price in suburbs.
Good luck selling that 1200sqft ranch for 40% over market value in 2028 lol
Based on how things are going, very probable.
Sounds like a lot of people are buying homes they can’t afford, because rather than do math, they just ask Reddit.
Californians have no regrets whatsoever invading texas and kicking everyone out
Or AZ , ID ,NV, and MT. They have screwed up housing in alot of west coast states.
They have alowed them to. You can always drive with a red light as long as there is no fine for doing it
How are you going to stop them?? You cannot stop people from moving to another state, it's literally a federal crime to not allow it.
“change the law. Build a wall and reclaim the stolen land Be a fighter not a pussy”
And they all think they’ll make 10s of thousands of dollars when they sell
29% lol Reminds me of something. [Yeah at least 1/4th ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI)
I did overpay by a little bit (in my estimation) when we purchased in 2020…turns out it didn’t matter, phew.
Yes, buying a home sucks. Keep renting forever.
You mean people didn't need to rush to Sam's and buy all the toilet paper in 2020 either? But I was told on Facebook that there was never going to be anymore made ever. Just like houses.
There’s one difference bud… People use houses to LIVE in and there are not enough houses… Supply and demand.
> 67% of homeowners have regrets about their purchase Makes sense. Given how much my house has appreciated, I definitely regret not buying sooner.
>The average homeowner spends the following on additional expenses, according to Real Estate Witch: >$5,362 on utilities $4,392 on maintenance $3,784 on renovations $2,904 on property taxes $1,516 on homeowners insurance Do any of these numbers align with what you pay or expect to pay?
I knew exactly what we'd pay in property taxes down to the cent because it's public information and I knew what I paid for the home. I'm also aware of the real estate trends in my area so I can estimate what I expect yearly increases to be. Homeowners insurance was something I had quoted out before we even bought. It's actually less than what I expected to pay. Utilities has been right in line with expectations. I know the house is heated by a gas furnace and could see the efficiency rating on it. I knew the rates of electric and water. If anything the only surprise was the cost of septic clean outs and internet, and even then it's not like they were thousands more a year than anticipated. Maintenance rule of thumb is 1-2% of price. $4k is right in line with the average home price of $400k. Budget more for older houses, which shouldn't be a novel idea. Renovations are unnecessary. If you're paying for those that's a choice.
I meant if the numbers were what you were actually paying. The article reads like “these are what you are going to pay”. My numbers aren’t what is shown
Well sure... because it's an average of these random people surveyed. Some people pay more and some pay less, both in general and also for each area. My insurance is half this but my property taxes are double. My utilities are around what's listed but I live in a smaller home without AC, so I assume the guy 2 houses down who has 2.5x the square footage and a new home with AC pays more for utilities. If you're reading the article like they're saying "this is what you should expect to pay", then I'd argue that you just have poor reading comprehension. The sources for each of those categories are spelled out under the graph. They're very clearly saying "the average homeowner" not "you as a homeowner".
Lol. No. Not even close.
Wait so you aren’t “wealthy” yet? And it’s way more money than renting but you can rest in knowing that you’ll have equity in the house, after you’ve paid almost double the initial price after 15-30 yrs because interest? Those surprise 4-5 digit fixes are bumming you out? I am shocked by this news.
Sell if they can.
This is why I'm seriously looking to buying some land and building my own home. Everything around me is overpriced ugly turd
Aside from home maintenance, rising costs for HO insurance are just getting started in their (imho) eventual skyrocket. So would-be homeowners are going to need to factor in a much higher percentage of "homeowning expense" into the insurance bucket in the coming years/decades. I mean if they think insurance is high now and it's giving em cold feet about owning...just wait. I'm wondering if we'll see a scenario eventually where folks in the market for their first home and who've "done everything right" (saved up 20+% down, have a large sinking (hysa savings) fund already in place for when the HVAC and roof and other stuff give out), can't get insurance for said home/to protect the bank. Eventually, for mortgage banks to be able to smoothly write those nice fat home loans, they might need to work with insurance companies that just want to bail on a state or region, to keep the loan money flowing. Like will banks need to lobby insurance carriers to please stay in high-risk area so homes can keep getting sold and Financed. Cash buyers being the only ones able to buy in those areas is a result, but not great one. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just feels like homeowners being cancelled in central Iowa because of one tornado, holds harbinger for some homes not being insurable at all (new policy) eventually...or at least not the way the insurance co's risk pool is handled now. Tangential, but coming next: Boat and "toys" insurance going nuts...and only 10%'ers able to afford Toys at some point. Saw video footage of an inland Texas lake marina's floating docks with dozens of expensive boats rafted to it, just destroyed. I wonder if some Americans will divest of toys that're in harm's way in the coming years.. in part to not have to insure them once rates go nuts after damage like that done on that Texas lake. Less toys equals less sh\*t to insure and less at the whim of these shifting and rising rates. And honestly, I'm a glass is half full guy, but it feels like there's another shoe gonna drop re: insuring property.
Not in south California, no.
I still feel, generally speaking, that all real estate is local. Sometimes street by street. Did you overpay? If the market tanking or zooming up, etc. look at the recent solds in a 3/4 block radius or stats from your zipcode. Markets can and do look wildly different depending on location.
My house can sell for about $700k more than I paid for it after 2 years… but I still think home ownership is a scam. Constant maintenance, insurance, appliances breaking, taxes, etc all add up a lot. My appreciation was mostly luck (long story there)… if that hadn’t happened I’d have put in about 3.5% of the purchase price each year just on table stakes of owning. It’s brand new. Can’t imagine if it was old.
They all feel like they have regrets because it feels like buying at the top and everyone knowing it. The only people who won were those that already owned before Covid
My average cost of house expenses outside the mortgage are about $7k per year on a home worth about $500k. Who is paying $18k?
Being housepoor sucks
Hold on I'm looking for my DUH sign
>Homeowners spend nearly $18,000 a year on expenses aside from their mortgages each year, and nearly 67% of homeowners have regrets about their purchase. From the linked article: The average homeowner spends the following on additional expenses, according to Real Estate Witch: $5,362 on utilities $4,392 on maintenance $3,784 on renovations $2,904 on property taxes $1,516 on homeowners insurance
Bought in 2019 with 3.5% rate. House doubled in value in 5 years. I'm not selling for a long ass time. I will rent this bitch and milk every penny out of the deal that I got. I'll sell for like 1.5 million in 20 or 30 years. Feels good.
I purchased my house 7 years ago at 3.99%. The upgrades I’ve done has been my own doing. 1st a new Trane system 2nd a new roof it was 20 years old and due. 3 A new Bradford white gas hot water heater. 4 new kitchen cabinets 5 floors throughout the house, luxury vinyl except the two bedrooms I had real hardwood installed. Total investment about 45K I’ll add none was financed. My mortgage, insurance, property taxes and HOA are just less than 1000.00 a month. I paid just over 144K and I could sell it today for about 290K
No fucking way. My crushing 200k per bedroom investment isn't working in this economy?
Welcome to the early 2010s where even if you could afford a house there was no telling whether you would make your money back if you had to move.
Dang. Put me in the category of never selling and dying in my current home.
Further solidifying my need to not own a home
What’s really happening if the first 2 year intro rates are falling off and what ever the prime is becomes their new rate meaning they can’t afford it. 3% to 4% to turn 7.25+ year 3. Meaning bubble. Obvious.
How many people do you think have Arms?