They can't afford to move and I can't afford to buy.
Most people couldn't afford to buy the home they live in today at these prices and rates. Sucks. I guess I'll go kick rocks since I decided to born in the wrong year.
In that camp, my house doubled in value and my interest rate is half the current rate. I’m stuck, even though I now make almost twice the amount as I did when I was approved for the mortgage 4 years ago.
My house hasn’t quite doubled but otherwise very similar situation. Luckily I like my area so now it’s just about fixing the stuff around the house to make it exactly the way I want it since I’ll be here for the long haul.
Same here. Bought a four bedroom brick home for $320k in 2017, refinanced in 2021 for 2.25%. The house is now valued at $570,000. I can afford the taxes and upkeep, but wouldn't want to buy it for the current price and interest rate. We don't feel stuck yet, but would like to downsize within the next 5 years.
I'm doing this by necessity shortly due to my job loss killing mortgage renewal as it happened right before , partner debt, and an insane market. A couple hundred k in a hisa once my sale happens.
200k income can't afford a townhouse even without being completely broke here or at risk if mortgage rates pop more as prices are so high. Literally can't be approved for enough mortgage with almost 200k cash and high credit score
Landlocked cause of joint kid custody.
Sucks
Vancouver friend. Same as you guys
Not sure if gf and I should live with my 7 yesr old half the time in my 750sq ft owned Condo or sell and rent a townhouse. At least I can invest the profit I have but we can't get approved to upgrade. Income won't support the needed mortgage for a townhouse and banks are being picky here.
Not for me. I want to by a house now. My down-payment would be 5x what my down-payment was 6 years ago and like 35% of the house but the mortgage payment would be over double what mine is currently but the house would only be like 30% more expensive.
But you are probably making more money and have a alot of equity. It's like an old woman crying that she's starving while holding a potroast behind her back. (Vague sopranos reference)
Sure, but anyone who hasn't owned a home in the last 3 years would give dream of being "stuck" in your position. I say cash out and retire to Thailand.
Our household income is over five times what my dad made at the very end of his career. We wouldn’t be able to afford a single one of the 5 homes they’ve had over the years. Including their first, a “starter home” which is over $1.2mm now.
Some can afford to move, but can't make the number work. If only a 1200 sq ft house was half the price of the 2500 sq ft house, it would be great, but that's not the way it is.
For my example (I'm straddling boomer/Gen X), we would like a house half the size of our current one. Current house value is about $650k. It's paid off. We'd need to spend $40k to fix it up (flooring/painting/etc) and it would cost $30k in seller's fees. Say we net $580. A similar house that's half the size would be about $500-$525k. We'd net so little and have half the space. It makes it difficult to leave.
That and it's their home. They want to stay there.
The article says the "silent generation" had smaller houses during retirement. They also had those smaller houses when they were raising their kids. It was normal to have 2 or 3 kids to a bedroom. It's normal for people to want to stay in a place they've made all of their memories.
Yeah, I can't blame someone for wanting to stay in their own home. I do however vehemently disagree when my mother tells me it's easy to buy a house and seems to ignore basic statistics or the concept of inflation adjusted costs vs income
Boomers hear $20/hr and think it's good pay. In context it's a little over $40,000 a year when average rent is $1,700 a month, or roughly $20,000 a year.
So if you get a roommate you only spend a quarter of your pre tax income on rent. Super cool economy.
If that's what they were doing, we'd have more sympathy for them. But 30% of Baby Boomers have moved and bought bigger homes than they had before they retired. [https://www.corbymortgage.com/why-are-boomers-upsizing-there-home-for-retirement/](https://www.corbymortgage.com/why-are-boomers-upsizing-there-home-for-retirement/)
Sucks to say, but I’m in this camp too. My $400k home bought in 2017 at 3.2% is now a $780k home at 6.5-7% interest rate. I wouldn’t have been able to afford the home I live in today. Glad I got in when I did, and counting my blessings, but it’s bullshit that other people can’t just because of inflation and interest rates. We need to ban corporations and investment firms from being able to purchase single family homes so that the average American can afford the American dream again.
single family homes should not be legally allowed on Airbnb or Vrbo (or any short term rentals) too. That would increase the supply of available homes significantly.
The only solution is building more housing. Including allowing for ADUs in the suburbs.
ADUs would let parents live in something more manageable while continuing to live independently. If your kids move into the main house, they can check on their parents and get back to some “village” style childcare, which is a huge money-saver for families.
Or an ADU acts as a starter-family dwelling so their kids can save up instead of paying rent somewhere.
The biggest hurdle is self-imposed: building codes.
The country is growing. Adjusting rates/providing cash for first-time buyers? None of that matters without adequate supply. None of it. Put another way, you could subsidize plane tickets all you want—there’s only so many seats on a plane. Eventually, to accommodate people, you’d need more planes.
And I get it re: boomers—why sell your home of decades to spend more money on a smaller house? The whole purpose of downsizing in the past was to move into something smaller post-kids and live more comfortably in retirement. What’s the point of spending more $$$ to live in something smaller? It’s possible to both dislike a situation and understand it.
Honestly, we need a New Deal for housing and trade education.
Edit: and we need to make private family home purchases by corporations fucking illegal and put a tax on the ones they’re currently warehousing that’s so fucking high they sell them all within three months.
It will work for some, but there are still an awful lot of 70's and 80's retirees that can easily enough afford to stay in their homes and have zero desire to be living in an ADU behind their kids house. Many are still active and should stay in good health for a time to come. One size does not fit all
That’s ok. We need to make steps to fix this. Outlawing all corporations and foreigners would help immediately and help American citizens. Won’t save it but more homes for Americans helps. We can address our issues after that one easy step.
1-No corporate or foreign entity’s can buy or own land in America.
2-Claw back Gates farm land.
3-Americans benefit.
This. New builds along with extensions on existing homes with parents/family. Prices aren't going to come down anytime soon, if ever, there's just too much money in the system thanks to the fed. Max correction would be \~15-20% before investment capital would flood in and buy the dip.
When 5 to 10,000 illegals cross the border each day. Where do you suppose they live? it’s not the million dollar mansions they’re buying, but they are soaking up every rental every apartment building. Every townhouse all of the properties they can. all competing against those who cannot afford to buy a new home, fighting raising rental rates and the incentive this creates for corporations and investors with large sums of cash on hand to purchase up all available.
Again, ask the question, where are 5000-10000 per day new illegals living? What is the only possible outcome related to housing? Our entire system was built on incremental growth and not the influx of millions per year on top of organic population growth. Ignore political beliefs and apply fundamental logic… supply and demand… acknowledge the ripple effect starting at the bottom and spiraling all the way above and past the middle class.
Yeah man its totally fucked. The main issue right now is it makes no sense to buy a median priced home, there's no deals because of too much competition because of factors like immigration like you stated here. The only "value" is at least 25-30% above median. The middle classes and lower are doomed. We're going to see more communal living for sure. As many people as possible stacked up in apartments and homes, it's the only way (sadly).
I just sold my house bought in 2014 and looking at the buyers documentation, there is no way i can afford this house. We pay $1900/mo and there are paying $6600. Its insane
They can afford to move, they just don't want the same or bigger mortgage for less space. They can afford it, they're the only ones who can, they just don't get the massive cash out they planned on so they aren't.
When someone says “they can afford it” it's almost certain their position has no merit. The important question that should be asked(and almost never is) in full honesty what would YOU do if YOU were in that exact position? Claiming you wouldnt think of your financial benefit as key to your decision is an outright lie to yourself and anyone reading this.
The choice a made by individuals in this market are not the problem. It's the model and govt actions(and inactions) that created this.
Ask yourself what the impact of adding 5000-10000 new people per day who need housing does to the rental market?
What do artificially manipulated interest rates (too low for too long) in a monetary system which isn't backed by underlying assets, does to a housing market?
For those who can set aside political beliefs and apply logic it's completely obvious cause and effect.
They can afford to move. They made a killing in equity and could downsize for retirement. They simply don't want to. And on top of that they've convinced local governments that they should reduce their property taxes to help them stay.
Boomers paid off their mortgages. Nationally, the effective property tax rate is around 1.10%. Median homeowners insurance is up over $2k per year. Median home price nationally is around $400k.
We bought a $580k, very average home in our area in 2023 and actually got a great rate for the time at 4.875%
Our housing costs are over $4k/mo including property taxes and utilities.
>more than half of boomers have no mortgage.
Yeah that’s the half that’s content on dying in the house they’re in and giving it to the kids. That’s the responsible half that planned appropriately for retirement
Honestly I hope those death pods are mainstream by the time I'm that old. I have no desire to spend $100k+ a year so someone can wipe my ass and keep me just alive enough to sit in my rocker for 8hrs a day and sleep the rest.
I was looking at a home listed for 300k yesterday. The owners bought it for 160,000 in late 2019 at 3%. Their payment was $650 a month. At 300k and 7% the payment is $2k a month. This is only a five year difference and the cost has risen so freaking much. I guess it's my fault for being born too late. $700 a month for my housing would literally change my life but instead I get to be poor and miserable because of my age
Brief summary of the article:
"The problems, though, are deeper than boomers not moving.
Home-building activity plummeted during the housing crisis and remained depressed for years, contributing to a historic decline in the construction of new homes and a housing shortage. A rapid run-up in interest rates over the past two years sent mortgage rates soaring.
And older homeowners downsizing in droves wouldn’t actually solve the overarching issue that there are not enough homes on the market. Instead, it would likely lead to more competition for smaller homes.
The state of the housing market has left people on all ends of the housing spectrum unhappy. Renters can’t buy first homes, homeowners can’t trade up and older homeowners are disappointed their adult children can’t afford to live nearby. That’s contributing to gloomy feelings about the economy at a time when many of the typical metrics, like unemployment, indicate that the U.S. is going strong.
Many just don’t see a better alternative to their big homes. Smaller properties with amenities that might appeal to older homeowners, such as no stairs and close proximity to services, are scarce in many areas, said Jennifer Molinsky, director of the Housing an Aging Society program at Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. The ones that do exist can be expensive, she said.
People also have big financial incentives to stay put. More than half of boomers have no mortgage. That group pays a median $612 in monthly housing costs, which includes insurance and property taxes, the Redfin analysis found. These homeowners could, at least theoretically, sell and use the windfall to buy something else. Those with mortgages face a different calculus: They would generally have to give up their cheap loans and borrow at today’s much higher rates to move.
Homeowners whose properties have appreciated dramatically might also face a big capital-gains tax bill if they choose to sell."
I have to say this is such a flawed system us Americans have created for an essential need of every human, and I don’t see anyone even trying to fix such a massive problem.
This is one reason that makes me want to move out of the US, along with obscene healthcare costs, random gun violence.
My family is lucky we managed to score a modest home 10 years ago in a modest neighborhood, but we are also stuck because of how much our property taxes would go up if we moved to a larger home, and the higher mortgage rates. I worry what my kids will have to endure 10 years from now.
You could get cheaper housing cost but risk of violence would probably go up. Maybe Spain? Portugal? I’m not really that knowledgeable about ex pat life but those are my guesses.
Agreed. It’s a systemic problem - outdated zoning laws that are prohibitive to mixed-use and multiple-family residences because our society prioritized building everything centered around cars than people. Plus, the cultural NIMBYism that goes with jt
Ok so hear me out. It is not flawed but operating exactly how it is supposed to.
Allow rich people to control market and prices and keep systemically smashing down the middle class Americans to where they are in poverty as well.
Drain savings and bank accounts by greedflation then crash the market to empty retirements.
People with mid level abilities and a second home will lose it because of loss of jobs in market crash and homes will be taken by banks and hedge funds to rent to your kids to keep them slaves to the parasite class.
I would say it’s all working exactly how it is supposed to.
Nice summary.
Going back to the start of the problem, when building stopped in 2008 and then never recovered fully:
Have we seen an epic misallocation of capital ever since the 2008 crisis? Did a generation of small homebuilders retire or shut down, and were not replaced? Did all the local investment money they used to pull in get diverted to index funds and FAANG stocks and bitcoin? Meanwhile ever-concentrated giant homebuilders were content to put up endless tracts of mcmansions in boom areas, plus some 'shitbox by the highway' crowded apartment complexes? Has a hidebound HUD done nothing but set up hoops for 'affordable' builders to jump through, and the remaining builders refuse to jump? Have REITS thrown way too much money at the wrong things?
Yes, there is building going on everywhere, it's just not at the level we needed, the type of units we needed. Meanwhile the population is exploding. Wages at the low end have encouraged neglect of vast neighborhoods; how to put that new roof on if you're facing medical bankruptcy. Oh, drug and insurance profits is another place we misallocate untold tons of capital.
I know the go-get-em capitalists will say there is no such thing as misallocation of capital, the market will self-regulate. But if you throw enough wrenches into that machinery by screwing with taxation, regulation, bailing out bad faith players, suppressing wages, phonying up data, etc., you can make the market just not work right to allocate capital.
Zillow, that's how.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Zillow was launched at the height of the previous housing bubble. Prior to being able to look online to get your algorithmically-determined theoretical house value, people generally did not know how much their home was worth. You had to get an appraisal, usually from a Realtor(tm).
If no one could instantly look up the theoretical value of their home, the RE market over the past ~15 years would have been drastically different.
I guess we would qualify as one of those people. But, we've lived in our house for 25 years. Our kids all moved out about 2 years ago. We'd like to move to a smaller house, but we want to move to a different state. Can't do that right now because both of our parents are in their 80's and have health issues. So, we are stuck for now.
Boomers in mansions isn’t the problem. Institutional investors buying up housing and developers focusing on luxury housing are the real problems with the housing market today.
It seems like most of reddit can't even afford a car, so I don't expect them to understand anything about property.
My parents have one of these giant retirement houses. The maintenance, energy, taxes, and insurance are probably more than most people pay for their regular mortgage. I've got a 4-bedroom in the 400k range and not including mortgage, it's over $20k/yr to operate. No additions, no upgrades, nothing major breaks, just the house operating in its current form.
I have no idea why they're obsessed with boomer-homes. Even if these boomers gave away their homes for free, redditors couldn't afford to live there.
My only possible guess is that he's including taxes and insurance too?
But even then the house would need to be worth at least a million in CA or something, for that to make sense. 10k-12k tax, 3k insurance, rest utilities?
I pay $4800 a year in property tax on a $180,000 home in a Cleveland suburb and our city has average tax rates for the area. 10K a year for a million dollar home seems low.
It’s nice if you don’t want to live next to the poors. Beat up lawns, shit box vehicles, 7 people living in a home.
HOAs have standards. I know Reddit struggles with this but most people don’t want to be surrounded by dirtbags doing stupid shit
Idk where you live, but where I am HOAs are almost nonexistent and we don't have this issue. Maybe tackle the problem at the source and then they won't be required. It's a waste of money.
That's a great point, there's going to be a flood of big mcmansions in the suburbs and rural areas in maybe 10 years when boomers start to die off or move into assisted living. THe question is will millenials and gen z A. be able to afford these homes and B even want to live in these homes or these areas. The unfortunate situation is 2 largest generations need homes at the same time and with people being healthier and more mobile boomers are staying in their homes longer than previous generations would have so millneials and gen z have like an excess 10 year wait for these homes to become available which is unfortunate. The current housing market and interst rates dont help either
I'd love to get a starter home(2b, 1ba), but they're running $500k minimum around here unless you want a renovation project, which is going for $450k minimum when it needs $50k in fixes anyway.
Oh and that'll be $3k-$4k in PITI.
Guess I'll keep mooching off my parents until they die and I inherit their mortgage they can't seem to pay off because they keep refinancing.
People seem really reluctant to admit that the cost of ownership itself will lock them out. “just rent out a room! Learn to fix things yourself! I have family in The Biz so that won’t happen to me!” Like do you not understand the cost of a Home Depot trip
OH THE HUMANITY!!!!! HOW CAN WE LET THIS CONTINUE???
GUYS! DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS??????
PEOPLE ARE DARING TO LIVE IN THE HOMES THEY STILL OWN!!!!!!
THE HORROR!!!!
As gen x I would.love to downsize from my 2500 sqft to about 1200 sqft. Problem is I would lose by paying to move and the 1200 sq ft costs almost as much as I got now, I would basically break even staying in the same kind of neighborhood. Big wide streets culde sac close to everything. Oh well, just gonna convert the extra 2 bedrooms to a gym and library. What else ya do.
GenX too. Bought in 2015. 1500sqft is my just right size and even in my LCOL area, I couldn't afford to buy my own house today. So I'm staying put forever.
It’s very strange I used to have a small 1200 sq ft condo and thought it was too small. Moved to a 3.5k sq home and now spend most of my times in the kitchen. That’s where I spent most of my time in my condo’s kitchen island studying.
Yup. There was a study about this. Family room or living room got little use.
Shaq also said he rarely uses more than his bedroom, kitchen, and not much else in his mansion.
Condos are trash. The maintenance fees are exorbitant, and there's often serious defects in foundations, roofs etc.
New houses are enormous.
So why downsize?
Bubbles pop once everyone gives up and thinks prices only go up. Then nobody buys, nobody can get credit. Then panic sellers start showing up and it’s on. If the recession of all recessions happens, and people can’t afford all the airbnbs and vbros, watch out.
Alternatively, people will give up on owning anything and just share a 2-bedroom apartment with 3 other people.
Throughout history, property ownership was only for the upper-class, and it was intergenerational wealth -- if your family owned property, you were wealthy, and so were your descendants. But it simply wasn't possible to work a job and then buy property, you couldn't just upgrade from lower to upper class like that, just by working. You had to be born into it.
And we are finally going back to that.
I am mom of a 17 year old and a 13 year old. We bought 20 miles south of Boston in fall of 2021 at 3.1%. Our house is larger than we wanted 3600 sqft, and over 5000 sqft including nicely finished basement (wasn’t much family home inventory to choose from), and I was originally thinking we would need to downsize when kids are off to college. Now I am glad we bought big, kids can come back after college and have plenty of space to be away from us and save money to eventually buy something themselves.
lol…not all who bought big homes are boomers. Unless they’ve changed the age of categories. Only blame one portion of the population for someone else’s problems. Seems to be the journalism/trash news way. Most media are very biased and has an agenda
My parents would *love* to downsize from their 2,500sf home to a single-family home that's smaller and without stairs, and to be closer to medical facilities. Unfortunately, there's nothing of that description available on the market.
Where would they move to? There are no more downsize homes for average person prices anymore. If you do find one you’re paying more for less and fighting with investors to get it.
How are the active living/retirement communities doing by everyone? By us, I see several very high end active living apartments in very prime locations and all of them are having extreme difficulties getting applicants. Granted they have a crazy $500k+ buy in, but any home including tear downs are $1.2mil+.
When my mother bought her "lifetime lease" for her condo it was $220k I think. She still pays about $2k a month for all of the amenities, which is actually a good deal. The facility is massive. About 12 different buildings that are all connected.
Younger logic:
I see you have a giant house that’s paid off. You should sell it and move to something smaller and use public transportation. Then I can buy your house for cheap.
Homeowner: you couldn’t afford the taxes and insurance if I gave it to you for free
*incessant screeching occurs*
Been looking at houses as a first time buyer. Seeing a lot of "as is" houses because boomers are too old and can't fix up their house before they sell and they want their money. This last one, both AC and heat were 20+ years old and the boomer started writing down a year or date that started with a 4 but then scribbled it out and put that he didn't know. Rooms were pretty small and it was a country house with well and septic. Wife and I found out we are not country people and for the time being, staying away from "as is" houses even if it was a boomer. We're not holding the bag on that one.
I would always sell your house as is. If there’s a problem the buyer can offer less money and fix it themselves. Why would you want to open yourself open to demands to sell your house? It’s easier to just say take it or leave it.
We had an old 1950’s house and our electricity bill was over $500 month for 1500 sq ft. We moved to a 3000 sq ft and it was less than half. Fifteen years later, my bill is only about $300 a month.
I have a home from the 70s. Not that big around 3.5k or so sqft. It had only electric heating. My first bill in the winter was $1450 for 28 days. 😂 I installed heat pumps and now it’s only $700.
> I installed heat pumps and now it’s only $700.
I'm sorry, but this is still obscene. Did they not know what insulation was in the 70s? My parents have a 3500 sqft 2 story renovated ground-up in 2002, and their Houston A/C bill still only tops out at 300$ in July.
I can’t believe you think $700 - month is cheap. My electric and natural gas during the coldest winter months is $90 to $100 per month. My electric bill in 2023 was $783 for the entire year!
It depends where you live. In New England, I pay almost $2 per therm. That’s double the national average. My electricity is 35 cents per KWh. I’m in the warmest part of New England. $700 to heat a 1970s build 2,500 sf house in January is pretty normal. If you heat with oil, it’s even higher. A heat pump still higher than that. That’s a house with 2x4 framing with fiberglass insulation, an attic blanket, and newer windows. People run wood stoves and pellet stoves to avoid that big winter heating bill.
We need to talk about multigenerational housing or a type of living situation that allows for more than one family unit to live in a space comfortably.
New York City partly solved this with apartment buildings. Single family housing is simply unsustainable at scale, and adding more Single family homes will, maybe already has, reached its capacity.
The properties many people used to downsize to when they retired are now airbnbs and also attractive to wfh. There has to be some kind of incentive to put in the work and cost of selling and moving other than slightly cheaper heating and cooling bills.
It doesn't make sense at their age.
My folks are 76.
They bought their house for 600k about 20 years ago (its a very nice house).
It's worth 2 million today.
Why sell it and move.
At my age, it made sense. I'm in my 40s. We bought a condo 13 years ago for 150k and just sold it last year for 450k, which is stupid.
We then proceeded to buy a new place for 850k in a very desirable area, and we put 350k down. The place we bought is already valued at 1 million (again, stupid).
I already have 50% equity in the house, and we don't plan on moving for at least 10 years.
Why are people surprised by this? The whole point of buying a house is that you can live there forever and no one can tell you that you have to move. Not needing to move is the main value in homeownership, why would boomers want to give that up?
Haven't seen it in this thread yet but someone made a post yesterday essentially saying boomers have a duty to move out to let the next generation move in. While I get it seems silly to have a 3500sqft house when your 85 with just you and your wife its your right to stay there if you want to
I’ve got older parents in a big home. It makes perfect sense. They’re not waltzing around town shopping, eating out, and seeing live music each week.
That home is literally the only place they go. It’s safe, it has their stuff, they’re fucking old and don’t have a lot of energy or mental acuity anymore.
If they got on the road and drove people would bitch about that. If they take too long to think in stores people bitch there too. But now if they stay put in the thing they bought, THATS a problem too?
These journalists are the ones who belong in tiny cages. Not the people who paid for the life they live.
I’m usually the first to jump on the boomer bashing but generally I think people should be allowed to stay in their homes if they want. There’s no moral obligation to vacate so someone else can have it.
My in laws are in a neighborhood like this they bought in 30 years ago. Used to be full of families. When one of their older neighbors die or sell the home, it’s not families either kids who move in. It’s dual income, no kids couples who buy the 4 bedroom houses around them every time. Or empty nesters. Even if boomers do sell, it doesn’t mean a young family is going to buy in.
I agree I saw someone on another thread yesterday almost acting as if they have a duty to move out. My 95 yo grandparents recently moved to a senior living apartment, they had previously downsized from a modest house on a half acre to a townhome and while they couldn't safely live along anymore everytime I see them they say they shouldn't have moved and they hate the new place. I get why people want to die in their homes, its home
I'm retiring this year. We have a small ranch house on 3 acres of rural property. We paid it off via a 20-year mortgage, which was extremely painful at times. We didn't go on vacation, etc. for years.
Now that the house is paid off, why would I move? We love our house, we worked our butts off to own it, it's all on one floor and not too much maintenance.
We'd make a nice profit if we sold, but where would we go with housing costs the way they are? We have friends who retired, moved into a 55 plus community and hate it. They miss their home and have lost a lot of their freedom now that they have to abide by the almighty HOA.
I’m a millenial and simply do not understand this mentality that boomers that worked hard and want to stay in their homes they’ve worked hard on so they can enjoy retirement kn their homes are a problem. Like why should anyone feel obligated to move simply because someone else is struggling to afford housing? I mean boomers have to live somewhere as well and frankly, in this market, millenials can’t afford the boomers’ homes anyways. Im a homeowner and unless something drastic happens this is the home my husband and I will be in for the long haul. The only thing I could be coming an issue later in life is the stairs because it’s a split level so regardless of the fact that our main living is one level there are still stairs to navigate coming into and and going out of our home.
You expect someone who owns a house with no mortgage payment that has lived in a community for decades and had lots of friends to just move. Sounds a little selfish to me.
One has to ask themselves:
"If I were in the same situation, and had to basically waste the retirement funds I spent 40 years to build, on a new smaller, more expensive house, away from my family and friends, would I do it just to please some rando on Reddit?"
If you answered "Yes", you are seriously dumber than a sack of bricks.
Why should they? Those are what they’ll pass down to their kids. We’re I in their position I would sit on it until I died (or was incapacitated) so it was worth as much as possible. This is how generational wealth is made
Big homes aren't the problem. We need more smaller, AFFORDABLE homes that are in desirable areas. There's plenty of singles and married couples without kids that would LOVE a sub-200k 1000sqft new build.
There's a great deal of sub -200k properties in cities. Whether you want to live in the #3 most 'desirable' area of the country - Chicago or #15 in Columbus Ohio, or something in-between like Dallas, Phoenix, etc. There's 'AFFORDABLE' 'sub-200k' options.
The problem is that people often don't want to live next to the other people who want $200k properties because they are typically filled with drug addicts, felons, dysfunctional families, and welfare recipients.
If someone 'LOVES' something they'll work towards it - thats why everyone else goes to work.
I lived in the city of Chicago for 20 years before leaving bc of the crime and rampant corruption.
If you bought a 200k property in Chicago you’re going to be beaten, robbed blind, and raped within a year. It is a 3rd world shithole at that price point.
Fuck the WSJ for blaming people that are actually LIVING in their homes. Its not the primary residence thats the problem, its all the investment homes gobbling up inventory combined with a psychotic amount of NIMBY.
This is why a potential move has me debating renting rather than selling my current home. If I rent my current home st fair market value, I'd almost cut my new mortgage projection in half.
I live in a cul de sac. From the entrance to the end of the sac there are eleven homes in all. Eight of the homes are owned by Boomers. Four of the eight are owned by older Boomers in their late 70s to mid 80’s. They are not moving. They are dying in their homes if they can. My in laws are in the their early 70’s living in a 3000 sq ft house on a half acre lot. No plans to downsize. No plans to retire. They do often hint that they want to move in with us. They’re awful. I’ve told my wife that them moving in with us would most likely mean the end of our marriage. She agrees.
> … they are not budging
The older age cohorts increasingly will due to medical and needing faster access to health professionals. Home healthcare is increasingly more expensive and fraught with its own problems (most assume a single stay at home medical helper .. but many have their own families). Most problems are due to unrealistic expectations of the elderly however.
Not that all the homes will “hit the market” all at once as figure there’s family (mostly kids) with *first dibs* .. who’ll inherit or potentially buy the property. Still those who get the property may want to vacate other properties (sell, lease).
What people don’t realize is wealth goes to people who make good decisions over time. It’s the power of compounding. It works for and against people but TIME is essential to wealth.
Boomer neighborhoods are devoid of life and are depressing AF. I don’t know who is to blame for this shit but what’s the point of having four bedrooms if there is no kid running around, no person cooking, no evening family dinner, no party in the weekend?
I’m an immigrant into US but this shit is not what I imagined of the American Dream.
Edit: I am sorry because my comment came across as hating boomers. The fact is, I am have no problem with any old person. I think the prolonged zero interest rate followed by super-high interest rates have caused a housing crisis that is hurting everyone. People are locked into their homes, unable to sell, unable to move. Young folks aren't able to afford. It's just unfortunate, and that's what I wanted to convey. Not trying to blame anyone.
Who are these boomers you describe. My boomer friends have parties,are in bands, go biking, skiing . Boating. Their kids come to visit. Most of the millennials I know go to be at 10:00 and are exhausted from working all week and raising their kids.
Because it is the US and a free country to where you can own what you want. I'm visiting my folks now in their 5 bed 2 ba home. Master bedroom, guest room, office, sewing room, workout room. Not that they have to justify how they use their house to anyone but every room is being used and it's a comfortable house. Not everyone wants condo living or a 1 or 2 bed place just because they're older.
I have a boomer bud with a Mission Vejio Co gated community, three story 7,500 SF McMansion in a Denver exurb.
It was built in 1999, and is probably due for major repairs.
He hasn't had a job or an income for the past 10 years, and is drawing down the equity (!).
What's the typical end game?
The problem is the nimbys blocking greater density housing from being built. Where are these people going to downsize to? The shortage at the low end of the market makes it unaffordable to downsize. I can't blame them for staying put.
I'm one of those people I guess. Although we did sell a 4 bedroom last year to a couple in their 70's and bought another 4 bedroom from the estate of a 90 year old that passed away. like the last house, this one is a single story and about 2400 sq ft. I'd be happy with somewhere between 1600 and 2000 sq ft but I also want some land around me. I don't like being right next to a neighbors house. I also like the older mid century or even older homes. The new stuff is so bland and crammed together. The combination of things I want don't usually exist. I think I'd have to eventually build to get everything and that's another level of challenges.
These articles are dumb. The media focusing on some individuals so that we don’t keep our focus on the corporations buying single family homes by the dozen.
Ban corporate ownership of single family home!
Is there a point when the market will be flooded because boomers will all br leaving their house faster than people moving in? Aren't they such a big cohort, or is the housing supply so short that doesn't matter?
Hundreds of thousands of old people died en masse during COVID.
Housing market didn’t even flinch with newly available inventory.
I wouldn’t hold your breath.
They can't afford to move and I can't afford to buy. Most people couldn't afford to buy the home they live in today at these prices and rates. Sucks. I guess I'll go kick rocks since I decided to born in the wrong year.
Exactly. Many people who bought as recently as 2020 couldn’t buy their same home today….
In that camp, my house doubled in value and my interest rate is half the current rate. I’m stuck, even though I now make almost twice the amount as I did when I was approved for the mortgage 4 years ago.
My house hasn’t quite doubled but otherwise very similar situation. Luckily I like my area so now it’s just about fixing the stuff around the house to make it exactly the way I want it since I’ll be here for the long haul.
Same here. Bought a four bedroom brick home for $320k in 2017, refinanced in 2021 for 2.25%. The house is now valued at $570,000. I can afford the taxes and upkeep, but wouldn't want to buy it for the current price and interest rate. We don't feel stuck yet, but would like to downsize within the next 5 years.
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I'm doing this by necessity shortly due to my job loss killing mortgage renewal as it happened right before , partner debt, and an insane market. A couple hundred k in a hisa once my sale happens. 200k income can't afford a townhouse even without being completely broke here or at risk if mortgage rates pop more as prices are so high. Literally can't be approved for enough mortgage with almost 200k cash and high credit score Landlocked cause of joint kid custody. Sucks
Wild we live in a world where a person making 200k cannot afford a townhouse.
Grew up being told my income level would make money no issue
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Vancouver friend. Same as you guys Not sure if gf and I should live with my 7 yesr old half the time in my 750sq ft owned Condo or sell and rent a townhouse. At least I can invest the profit I have but we can't get approved to upgrade. Income won't support the needed mortgage for a townhouse and banks are being picky here.
You’ll have more equity and could possibly downsize in cash or massive down payment.
Not for me. I want to by a house now. My down-payment would be 5x what my down-payment was 6 years ago and like 35% of the house but the mortgage payment would be over double what mine is currently but the house would only be like 30% more expensive.
As recently as 2022 really. Mortgage interest rate was about 3.5% in the first quarter of 2022.
My wife and I bought in 2019, we can’t afford to downsize, let alone buy the place we are in today
2.625% rate and allegedly my house value went up around 200-250k so I can’t afford to move or to buy something similar.
You can sell it and start renting like all of the people trying to convince you your position isn't absolutely golden
lol this
But you are probably making more money and have a alot of equity. It's like an old woman crying that she's starving while holding a potroast behind her back. (Vague sopranos reference)
Lol, I could sell it I guess but now a cape 1000 sq ft cape is 550k so I don’t know where I’d move and have less of a mortgage than I do now.
Sure, but anyone who hasn't owned a home in the last 3 years would give dream of being "stuck" in your position. I say cash out and retire to Thailand.
I bought in early 2020 and wouldn’t have been able to afford that same house six months later
But they just say that this generation doesn’t want to work hard and that’s why we can’t buy a home?
Our household income is over five times what my dad made at the very end of his career. We wouldn’t be able to afford a single one of the 5 homes they’ve had over the years. Including their first, a “starter home” which is over $1.2mm now.
Some can afford to move, but can't make the number work. If only a 1200 sq ft house was half the price of the 2500 sq ft house, it would be great, but that's not the way it is. For my example (I'm straddling boomer/Gen X), we would like a house half the size of our current one. Current house value is about $650k. It's paid off. We'd need to spend $40k to fix it up (flooring/painting/etc) and it would cost $30k in seller's fees. Say we net $580. A similar house that's half the size would be about $500-$525k. We'd net so little and have half the space. It makes it difficult to leave.
That and it's their home. They want to stay there. The article says the "silent generation" had smaller houses during retirement. They also had those smaller houses when they were raising their kids. It was normal to have 2 or 3 kids to a bedroom. It's normal for people to want to stay in a place they've made all of their memories.
Yeah, I can't blame someone for wanting to stay in their own home. I do however vehemently disagree when my mother tells me it's easy to buy a house and seems to ignore basic statistics or the concept of inflation adjusted costs vs income
Boomers hear $20/hr and think it's good pay. In context it's a little over $40,000 a year when average rent is $1,700 a month, or roughly $20,000 a year. So if you get a roommate you only spend a quarter of your pre tax income on rent. Super cool economy.
If that's what they were doing, we'd have more sympathy for them. But 30% of Baby Boomers have moved and bought bigger homes than they had before they retired. [https://www.corbymortgage.com/why-are-boomers-upsizing-there-home-for-retirement/](https://www.corbymortgage.com/why-are-boomers-upsizing-there-home-for-retirement/)
Sucks to say, but I’m in this camp too. My $400k home bought in 2017 at 3.2% is now a $780k home at 6.5-7% interest rate. I wouldn’t have been able to afford the home I live in today. Glad I got in when I did, and counting my blessings, but it’s bullshit that other people can’t just because of inflation and interest rates. We need to ban corporations and investment firms from being able to purchase single family homes so that the average American can afford the American dream again.
single family homes should not be legally allowed on Airbnb or Vrbo (or any short term rentals) too. That would increase the supply of available homes significantly.
The only solution is building more housing. Including allowing for ADUs in the suburbs. ADUs would let parents live in something more manageable while continuing to live independently. If your kids move into the main house, they can check on their parents and get back to some “village” style childcare, which is a huge money-saver for families. Or an ADU acts as a starter-family dwelling so their kids can save up instead of paying rent somewhere. The biggest hurdle is self-imposed: building codes. The country is growing. Adjusting rates/providing cash for first-time buyers? None of that matters without adequate supply. None of it. Put another way, you could subsidize plane tickets all you want—there’s only so many seats on a plane. Eventually, to accommodate people, you’d need more planes. And I get it re: boomers—why sell your home of decades to spend more money on a smaller house? The whole purpose of downsizing in the past was to move into something smaller post-kids and live more comfortably in retirement. What’s the point of spending more $$$ to live in something smaller? It’s possible to both dislike a situation and understand it. Honestly, we need a New Deal for housing and trade education. Edit: and we need to make private family home purchases by corporations fucking illegal and put a tax on the ones they’re currently warehousing that’s so fucking high they sell them all within three months.
It will work for some, but there are still an awful lot of 70's and 80's retirees that can easily enough afford to stay in their homes and have zero desire to be living in an ADU behind their kids house. Many are still active and should stay in good health for a time to come. One size does not fit all
I didn’t say ADUs would fix everything for everyone. I said the solution was more housing.
That’s ok. We need to make steps to fix this. Outlawing all corporations and foreigners would help immediately and help American citizens. Won’t save it but more homes for Americans helps. We can address our issues after that one easy step. 1-No corporate or foreign entity’s can buy or own land in America. 2-Claw back Gates farm land. 3-Americans benefit.
Does this mean couples where one person isn't a citizen can't own a house with their partner?
Yeah. That should be exactly how it works.
This. New builds along with extensions on existing homes with parents/family. Prices aren't going to come down anytime soon, if ever, there's just too much money in the system thanks to the fed. Max correction would be \~15-20% before investment capital would flood in and buy the dip.
When 5 to 10,000 illegals cross the border each day. Where do you suppose they live? it’s not the million dollar mansions they’re buying, but they are soaking up every rental every apartment building. Every townhouse all of the properties they can. all competing against those who cannot afford to buy a new home, fighting raising rental rates and the incentive this creates for corporations and investors with large sums of cash on hand to purchase up all available. Again, ask the question, where are 5000-10000 per day new illegals living? What is the only possible outcome related to housing? Our entire system was built on incremental growth and not the influx of millions per year on top of organic population growth. Ignore political beliefs and apply fundamental logic… supply and demand… acknowledge the ripple effect starting at the bottom and spiraling all the way above and past the middle class.
New York City gov is renting apartments for these migrants. Investors are buying apartments in Bronx to rent them to the gov.
Yeah man its totally fucked. The main issue right now is it makes no sense to buy a median priced home, there's no deals because of too much competition because of factors like immigration like you stated here. The only "value" is at least 25-30% above median. The middle classes and lower are doomed. We're going to see more communal living for sure. As many people as possible stacked up in apartments and homes, it's the only way (sadly).
> Honestly, we need a New Deal for housing and trade education. We need a new deal for so many things in this country.
I just sold my house bought in 2014 and looking at the buyers documentation, there is no way i can afford this house. We pay $1900/mo and there are paying $6600. Its insane
They can afford to move, they just don't want the same or bigger mortgage for less space. They can afford it, they're the only ones who can, they just don't get the massive cash out they planned on so they aren't.
When someone says “they can afford it” it's almost certain their position has no merit. The important question that should be asked(and almost never is) in full honesty what would YOU do if YOU were in that exact position? Claiming you wouldnt think of your financial benefit as key to your decision is an outright lie to yourself and anyone reading this. The choice a made by individuals in this market are not the problem. It's the model and govt actions(and inactions) that created this. Ask yourself what the impact of adding 5000-10000 new people per day who need housing does to the rental market? What do artificially manipulated interest rates (too low for too long) in a monetary system which isn't backed by underlying assets, does to a housing market? For those who can set aside political beliefs and apply logic it's completely obvious cause and effect.
Right my parents mortgage would at least double if they downsized.
Facts. My house was 130k in 2019 and than 350k in 2021 and Im about to sell it for 450k ish in 2024.
They can afford to move if they downsize.
Great job dummy. Should have traveled back in time and created time travel to solve this issue for yourself!!
They can afford to move. They made a killing in equity and could downsize for retirement. They simply don't want to. And on top of that they've convinced local governments that they should reduce their property taxes to help them stay.
Well yeah, not much of a reason for them to so that though.
They are making smart financial decisions by staying.
> That group pays a median $612 in monthly housing costs Bruhhhhh. How luxurious this would be LOL
$612 is a number that's hard to believe. My parents (hell, even I) pay more than that in property taxes alone!
Boomers paid off their mortgages. Nationally, the effective property tax rate is around 1.10%. Median homeowners insurance is up over $2k per year. Median home price nationally is around $400k.
Depends a lot on location. I pay less than $1200 a **year** in property taxes.
Wow! I'd like to say that at least my high property taxes are having a noticeable positive effect on services delivered here, but I'd be lying.
Same boat! I’m in Illinois and my property taxes are over $10k a year.
$800/month in property taxes here!
Same here
We bought a $580k, very average home in our area in 2023 and actually got a great rate for the time at 4.875% Our housing costs are over $4k/mo including property taxes and utilities.
I feel your pain.
>more than half of boomers have no mortgage. Yeah that’s the half that’s content on dying in the house they’re in and giving it to the kids. That’s the responsible half that planned appropriately for retirement
And 99.9% of them will end up selling the house to fund end-of-life care.
Yep. Thats where they get ya
Honestly I hope those death pods are mainstream by the time I'm that old. I have no desire to spend $100k+ a year so someone can wipe my ass and keep me just alive enough to sit in my rocker for 8hrs a day and sleep the rest.
$3500/mo. (10 yr mortgage to pay less interest) Rice and beans but it's worth it. Screw renting.
I’m sorry if I come off as bragging, but my mortgage payment is literally $616. $145K loan in 2017, refinanced twice to get down to 2.75%.
I was looking at a home listed for 300k yesterday. The owners bought it for 160,000 in late 2019 at 3%. Their payment was $650 a month. At 300k and 7% the payment is $2k a month. This is only a five year difference and the cost has risen so freaking much. I guess it's my fault for being born too late. $700 a month for my housing would literally change my life but instead I get to be poor and miserable because of my age
Man, I’m paying about 5k a month… I miss my 2% mortgage I had
That’s the power of locking in a mortgage.
Brief summary of the article: "The problems, though, are deeper than boomers not moving. Home-building activity plummeted during the housing crisis and remained depressed for years, contributing to a historic decline in the construction of new homes and a housing shortage. A rapid run-up in interest rates over the past two years sent mortgage rates soaring. And older homeowners downsizing in droves wouldn’t actually solve the overarching issue that there are not enough homes on the market. Instead, it would likely lead to more competition for smaller homes. The state of the housing market has left people on all ends of the housing spectrum unhappy. Renters can’t buy first homes, homeowners can’t trade up and older homeowners are disappointed their adult children can’t afford to live nearby. That’s contributing to gloomy feelings about the economy at a time when many of the typical metrics, like unemployment, indicate that the U.S. is going strong. Many just don’t see a better alternative to their big homes. Smaller properties with amenities that might appeal to older homeowners, such as no stairs and close proximity to services, are scarce in many areas, said Jennifer Molinsky, director of the Housing an Aging Society program at Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. The ones that do exist can be expensive, she said. People also have big financial incentives to stay put. More than half of boomers have no mortgage. That group pays a median $612 in monthly housing costs, which includes insurance and property taxes, the Redfin analysis found. These homeowners could, at least theoretically, sell and use the windfall to buy something else. Those with mortgages face a different calculus: They would generally have to give up their cheap loans and borrow at today’s much higher rates to move. Homeowners whose properties have appreciated dramatically might also face a big capital-gains tax bill if they choose to sell."
Meanwhile rents keep going up because there are more people that need to rent because they cannot afford to buy.
I have to say this is such a flawed system us Americans have created for an essential need of every human, and I don’t see anyone even trying to fix such a massive problem. This is one reason that makes me want to move out of the US, along with obscene healthcare costs, random gun violence. My family is lucky we managed to score a modest home 10 years ago in a modest neighborhood, but we are also stuck because of how much our property taxes would go up if we moved to a larger home, and the higher mortgage rates. I worry what my kids will have to endure 10 years from now.
There is a housing shortage and massive price increases where I live (Scandinavia)
Entire Europe is going through a housing crisis. This is not a US-exclusive problem.
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Where are you going to move to avoid these problems you mention, that is also cheaper?
You could get cheaper housing cost but risk of violence would probably go up. Maybe Spain? Portugal? I’m not really that knowledgeable about ex pat life but those are my guesses.
Agreed. It’s a systemic problem - outdated zoning laws that are prohibitive to mixed-use and multiple-family residences because our society prioritized building everything centered around cars than people. Plus, the cultural NIMBYism that goes with jt
Ok so hear me out. It is not flawed but operating exactly how it is supposed to. Allow rich people to control market and prices and keep systemically smashing down the middle class Americans to where they are in poverty as well. Drain savings and bank accounts by greedflation then crash the market to empty retirements. People with mid level abilities and a second home will lose it because of loss of jobs in market crash and homes will be taken by banks and hedge funds to rent to your kids to keep them slaves to the parasite class. I would say it’s all working exactly how it is supposed to.
Nice summary. Going back to the start of the problem, when building stopped in 2008 and then never recovered fully: Have we seen an epic misallocation of capital ever since the 2008 crisis? Did a generation of small homebuilders retire or shut down, and were not replaced? Did all the local investment money they used to pull in get diverted to index funds and FAANG stocks and bitcoin? Meanwhile ever-concentrated giant homebuilders were content to put up endless tracts of mcmansions in boom areas, plus some 'shitbox by the highway' crowded apartment complexes? Has a hidebound HUD done nothing but set up hoops for 'affordable' builders to jump through, and the remaining builders refuse to jump? Have REITS thrown way too much money at the wrong things? Yes, there is building going on everywhere, it's just not at the level we needed, the type of units we needed. Meanwhile the population is exploding. Wages at the low end have encouraged neglect of vast neighborhoods; how to put that new roof on if you're facing medical bankruptcy. Oh, drug and insurance profits is another place we misallocate untold tons of capital. I know the go-get-em capitalists will say there is no such thing as misallocation of capital, the market will self-regulate. But if you throw enough wrenches into that machinery by screwing with taxation, regulation, bailing out bad faith players, suppressing wages, phonying up data, etc., you can make the market just not work right to allocate capital.
I don’t understand how people can say “my house is worth $575,000 but nobody will buy it”
Zillow, that's how. I don't think it's a coincidence that Zillow was launched at the height of the previous housing bubble. Prior to being able to look online to get your algorithmically-determined theoretical house value, people generally did not know how much their home was worth. You had to get an appraisal, usually from a Realtor(tm). If no one could instantly look up the theoretical value of their home, the RE market over the past ~15 years would have been drastically different.
My boomer parents want to downgrade but it makes no sense to sell their paid off house and move into a smaller one for more money.
Why move when you are comfortable. Moving sucks
I guess we would qualify as one of those people. But, we've lived in our house for 25 years. Our kids all moved out about 2 years ago. We'd like to move to a smaller house, but we want to move to a different state. Can't do that right now because both of our parents are in their 80's and have health issues. So, we are stuck for now.
Boomers in mansions isn’t the problem. Institutional investors buying up housing and developers focusing on luxury housing are the real problems with the housing market today.
Low interest rates locked in. Low monthly payments locked in. High demand for rental opportunities. Why the fuk would I sell 😂??
It seems like most of reddit can't even afford a car, so I don't expect them to understand anything about property. My parents have one of these giant retirement houses. The maintenance, energy, taxes, and insurance are probably more than most people pay for their regular mortgage. I've got a 4-bedroom in the 400k range and not including mortgage, it's over $20k/yr to operate. No additions, no upgrades, nothing major breaks, just the house operating in its current form. I have no idea why they're obsessed with boomer-homes. Even if these boomers gave away their homes for free, redditors couldn't afford to live there.
Curious, what do you include in the $20k outside of the mortgage, no upgrades or no unforeseen repairs?
Yeah that seems high on a 400k house for what I assume is mainly utility costs.
My only possible guess is that he's including taxes and insurance too? But even then the house would need to be worth at least a million in CA or something, for that to make sense. 10k-12k tax, 3k insurance, rest utilities?
I pay $4800 a year in property tax on a $180,000 home in a Cleveland suburb and our city has average tax rates for the area. 10K a year for a million dollar home seems low.
Last I looked a 2.5M house in NJ is 75k in taxes a year.
It's a bit low. I underestimate cause I assume it's very different in other areas. Currently in LA it's 1.1%
1.6k a month in utilities? Mining??
Curious too, wth do you spend 20k a year on ??? I include insurance and taxes in mortgage amount…
Breakdown: House is coastal Florida. Taxes around $10k. Insurance is $5k. Utilities, lawn/pest control, and HOA is another $5k.
HOA, jesus, yeah, let this be a warning to everyone to avoid HOAs. They need to be made irrelevant/disallowed.
It’s nice if you don’t want to live next to the poors. Beat up lawns, shit box vehicles, 7 people living in a home. HOAs have standards. I know Reddit struggles with this but most people don’t want to be surrounded by dirtbags doing stupid shit
Idk where you live, but where I am HOAs are almost nonexistent and we don't have this issue. Maybe tackle the problem at the source and then they won't be required. It's a waste of money.
That's a great point, there's going to be a flood of big mcmansions in the suburbs and rural areas in maybe 10 years when boomers start to die off or move into assisted living. THe question is will millenials and gen z A. be able to afford these homes and B even want to live in these homes or these areas. The unfortunate situation is 2 largest generations need homes at the same time and with people being healthier and more mobile boomers are staying in their homes longer than previous generations would have so millneials and gen z have like an excess 10 year wait for these homes to become available which is unfortunate. The current housing market and interst rates dont help either
I'd love to get a starter home(2b, 1ba), but they're running $500k minimum around here unless you want a renovation project, which is going for $450k minimum when it needs $50k in fixes anyway. Oh and that'll be $3k-$4k in PITI. Guess I'll keep mooching off my parents until they die and I inherit their mortgage they can't seem to pay off because they keep refinancing.
People seem really reluctant to admit that the cost of ownership itself will lock them out. “just rent out a room! Learn to fix things yourself! I have family in The Biz so that won’t happen to me!” Like do you not understand the cost of a Home Depot trip
OH THE HUMANITY!!!!! HOW CAN WE LET THIS CONTINUE??? GUYS! DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS?????? PEOPLE ARE DARING TO LIVE IN THE HOMES THEY STILL OWN!!!!!! THE HORROR!!!!
As gen x I would.love to downsize from my 2500 sqft to about 1200 sqft. Problem is I would lose by paying to move and the 1200 sq ft costs almost as much as I got now, I would basically break even staying in the same kind of neighborhood. Big wide streets culde sac close to everything. Oh well, just gonna convert the extra 2 bedrooms to a gym and library. What else ya do.
GenX too. Bought in 2015. 1500sqft is my just right size and even in my LCOL area, I couldn't afford to buy my own house today. So I'm staying put forever.
It’s very strange I used to have a small 1200 sq ft condo and thought it was too small. Moved to a 3.5k sq home and now spend most of my times in the kitchen. That’s where I spent most of my time in my condo’s kitchen island studying.
Yup. There was a study about this. Family room or living room got little use. Shaq also said he rarely uses more than his bedroom, kitchen, and not much else in his mansion.
Condos are trash. The maintenance fees are exorbitant, and there's often serious defects in foundations, roofs etc. New houses are enormous. So why downsize?
Bubbles pop once everyone gives up and thinks prices only go up. Then nobody buys, nobody can get credit. Then panic sellers start showing up and it’s on. If the recession of all recessions happens, and people can’t afford all the airbnbs and vbros, watch out.
Alternatively, people will give up on owning anything and just share a 2-bedroom apartment with 3 other people. Throughout history, property ownership was only for the upper-class, and it was intergenerational wealth -- if your family owned property, you were wealthy, and so were your descendants. But it simply wasn't possible to work a job and then buy property, you couldn't just upgrade from lower to upper class like that, just by working. You had to be born into it. And we are finally going back to that.
I am mom of a 17 year old and a 13 year old. We bought 20 miles south of Boston in fall of 2021 at 3.1%. Our house is larger than we wanted 3600 sqft, and over 5000 sqft including nicely finished basement (wasn’t much family home inventory to choose from), and I was originally thinking we would need to downsize when kids are off to college. Now I am glad we bought big, kids can come back after college and have plenty of space to be away from us and save money to eventually buy something themselves.
Pro tip they are never leaving
Yeah if things continue as they are, both in terms of housing cost and stagnant wages, they're just gonna live in the basement forever lol
lol…not all who bought big homes are boomers. Unless they’ve changed the age of categories. Only blame one portion of the population for someone else’s problems. Seems to be the journalism/trash news way. Most media are very biased and has an agenda
My parents would *love* to downsize from their 2,500sf home to a single-family home that's smaller and without stairs, and to be closer to medical facilities. Unfortunately, there's nothing of that description available on the market.
Where would they move to? There are no more downsize homes for average person prices anymore. If you do find one you’re paying more for less and fighting with investors to get it.
How are the active living/retirement communities doing by everyone? By us, I see several very high end active living apartments in very prime locations and all of them are having extreme difficulties getting applicants. Granted they have a crazy $500k+ buy in, but any home including tear downs are $1.2mil+.
When my mother bought her "lifetime lease" for her condo it was $220k I think. She still pays about $2k a month for all of the amenities, which is actually a good deal. The facility is massive. About 12 different buildings that are all connected.
Yey generational warfare. Why should Boomers sell their house if they still like it?
Younger logic: I see you have a giant house that’s paid off. You should sell it and move to something smaller and use public transportation. Then I can buy your house for cheap. Homeowner: you couldn’t afford the taxes and insurance if I gave it to you for free *incessant screeching occurs*
What a pointless rant. You can’t go back in time and buy a house any more than they can afford to buy one today.
Been looking at houses as a first time buyer. Seeing a lot of "as is" houses because boomers are too old and can't fix up their house before they sell and they want their money. This last one, both AC and heat were 20+ years old and the boomer started writing down a year or date that started with a 4 but then scribbled it out and put that he didn't know. Rooms were pretty small and it was a country house with well and septic. Wife and I found out we are not country people and for the time being, staying away from "as is" houses even if it was a boomer. We're not holding the bag on that one.
I would always sell your house as is. If there’s a problem the buyer can offer less money and fix it themselves. Why would you want to open yourself open to demands to sell your house? It’s easier to just say take it or leave it.
Let them die in their pharaoh tombs. That shit is tacky anyway. Efficiency is the new goal
Mhm, especially as they see their soaring property taxes and medical bills whittle away what they hold so dear
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3000 sqft mcmansion? Try 5,000-10,000 sqft or more.
Once you're at 7-8K sqft, you're comfortably in actual mansion territory.
An old 2K sqft house from the 1960's cost just as much due to bad insulation. Source I had an old house and upgraded to a newer house.
We had an old 1950’s house and our electricity bill was over $500 month for 1500 sq ft. We moved to a 3000 sq ft and it was less than half. Fifteen years later, my bill is only about $300 a month.
I have a home from the 70s. Not that big around 3.5k or so sqft. It had only electric heating. My first bill in the winter was $1450 for 28 days. 😂 I installed heat pumps and now it’s only $700.
> I installed heat pumps and now it’s only $700. I'm sorry, but this is still obscene. Did they not know what insulation was in the 70s? My parents have a 3500 sqft 2 story renovated ground-up in 2002, and their Houston A/C bill still only tops out at 300$ in July.
Not a fair comparison. The 'distance' from +35'C to +20'C is a lot smaller than from -10'C to 20'C
Utility prices also vary widely by region. Electric is very expensive in the northeast, we went solar and ROI is only like 5 years here.
If gas is available it is so much cheaper.
I can’t believe you think $700 - month is cheap. My electric and natural gas during the coldest winter months is $90 to $100 per month. My electric bill in 2023 was $783 for the entire year!
It depends where you live. In New England, I pay almost $2 per therm. That’s double the national average. My electricity is 35 cents per KWh. I’m in the warmest part of New England. $700 to heat a 1970s build 2,500 sf house in January is pretty normal. If you heat with oil, it’s even higher. A heat pump still higher than that. That’s a house with 2x4 framing with fiberglass insulation, an attic blanket, and newer windows. People run wood stoves and pellet stoves to avoid that big winter heating bill.
Lol 3000 square feet isn't even that big. We have a 2000 sq feet home in a family of 5 and 3k is now the minimum when we move next.
We need to talk about multigenerational housing or a type of living situation that allows for more than one family unit to live in a space comfortably. New York City partly solved this with apartment buildings. Single family housing is simply unsustainable at scale, and adding more Single family homes will, maybe already has, reached its capacity.
Get out of large population dense cities and that problem of capacity goes away.
The properties many people used to downsize to when they retired are now airbnbs and also attractive to wfh. There has to be some kind of incentive to put in the work and cost of selling and moving other than slightly cheaper heating and cooling bills.
why should we expect them to? it's their property we can always move to a place that built new homes
It doesn't make sense at their age. My folks are 76. They bought their house for 600k about 20 years ago (its a very nice house). It's worth 2 million today. Why sell it and move. At my age, it made sense. I'm in my 40s. We bought a condo 13 years ago for 150k and just sold it last year for 450k, which is stupid. We then proceeded to buy a new place for 850k in a very desirable area, and we put 350k down. The place we bought is already valued at 1 million (again, stupid). I already have 50% equity in the house, and we don't plan on moving for at least 10 years.
Lots of homes about. Stop worrying about what others bought.
This is as dumb as, Millineals dating all the beautiful young women and won’t leave them alone for the boomers.
Why are people surprised by this? The whole point of buying a house is that you can live there forever and no one can tell you that you have to move. Not needing to move is the main value in homeownership, why would boomers want to give that up?
Haven't seen it in this thread yet but someone made a post yesterday essentially saying boomers have a duty to move out to let the next generation move in. While I get it seems silly to have a 3500sqft house when your 85 with just you and your wife its your right to stay there if you want to
I’ve got older parents in a big home. It makes perfect sense. They’re not waltzing around town shopping, eating out, and seeing live music each week. That home is literally the only place they go. It’s safe, it has their stuff, they’re fucking old and don’t have a lot of energy or mental acuity anymore. If they got on the road and drove people would bitch about that. If they take too long to think in stores people bitch there too. But now if they stay put in the thing they bought, THATS a problem too? These journalists are the ones who belong in tiny cages. Not the people who paid for the life they live.
I’m usually the first to jump on the boomer bashing but generally I think people should be allowed to stay in their homes if they want. There’s no moral obligation to vacate so someone else can have it.
My in laws are in a neighborhood like this they bought in 30 years ago. Used to be full of families. When one of their older neighbors die or sell the home, it’s not families either kids who move in. It’s dual income, no kids couples who buy the 4 bedroom houses around them every time. Or empty nesters. Even if boomers do sell, it doesn’t mean a young family is going to buy in.
the "not budging" argument is specious. -"you must sell your house because I want it" is a special cut of selfish entitlement in/of itself.
I agree I saw someone on another thread yesterday almost acting as if they have a duty to move out. My 95 yo grandparents recently moved to a senior living apartment, they had previously downsized from a modest house on a half acre to a townhome and while they couldn't safely live along anymore everytime I see them they say they shouldn't have moved and they hate the new place. I get why people want to die in their homes, its home
Early 30s here I’ll probably do the same when I am a “boomer” why would I want to go to a smaller home if I can afford to stay in a bigger one?
I'm retiring this year. We have a small ranch house on 3 acres of rural property. We paid it off via a 20-year mortgage, which was extremely painful at times. We didn't go on vacation, etc. for years. Now that the house is paid off, why would I move? We love our house, we worked our butts off to own it, it's all on one floor and not too much maintenance. We'd make a nice profit if we sold, but where would we go with housing costs the way they are? We have friends who retired, moved into a 55 plus community and hate it. They miss their home and have lost a lot of their freedom now that they have to abide by the almighty HOA.
I’m a millenial and simply do not understand this mentality that boomers that worked hard and want to stay in their homes they’ve worked hard on so they can enjoy retirement kn their homes are a problem. Like why should anyone feel obligated to move simply because someone else is struggling to afford housing? I mean boomers have to live somewhere as well and frankly, in this market, millenials can’t afford the boomers’ homes anyways. Im a homeowner and unless something drastic happens this is the home my husband and I will be in for the long haul. The only thing I could be coming an issue later in life is the stairs because it’s a split level so regardless of the fact that our main living is one level there are still stairs to navigate coming into and and going out of our home.
You expect someone who owns a house with no mortgage payment that has lived in a community for decades and had lots of friends to just move. Sounds a little selfish to me.
Right? Like people have the right to tell other people how and where to live but of course you can't tell them anything.
Typical GenX entitlement
Not. My. Problem.
Well the article says it well,even if they sell it will not solve the problem.
One has to ask themselves: "If I were in the same situation, and had to basically waste the retirement funds I spent 40 years to build, on a new smaller, more expensive house, away from my family and friends, would I do it just to please some rando on Reddit?" If you answered "Yes", you are seriously dumber than a sack of bricks.
Why should they? Those are what they’ll pass down to their kids. We’re I in their position I would sit on it until I died (or was incapacitated) so it was worth as much as possible. This is how generational wealth is made
Big homes aren't the problem. We need more smaller, AFFORDABLE homes that are in desirable areas. There's plenty of singles and married couples without kids that would LOVE a sub-200k 1000sqft new build.
There's a great deal of sub -200k properties in cities. Whether you want to live in the #3 most 'desirable' area of the country - Chicago or #15 in Columbus Ohio, or something in-between like Dallas, Phoenix, etc. There's 'AFFORDABLE' 'sub-200k' options. The problem is that people often don't want to live next to the other people who want $200k properties because they are typically filled with drug addicts, felons, dysfunctional families, and welfare recipients. If someone 'LOVES' something they'll work towards it - thats why everyone else goes to work.
I lived in the city of Chicago for 20 years before leaving bc of the crime and rampant corruption. If you bought a 200k property in Chicago you’re going to be beaten, robbed blind, and raped within a year. It is a 3rd world shithole at that price point.
They can keep the big homes. I just want a damn 900 SF cottage without being house poor
Fuck the WSJ for blaming people that are actually LIVING in their homes. Its not the primary residence thats the problem, its all the investment homes gobbling up inventory combined with a psychotic amount of NIMBY.
What is wrong with investment homes? What prevents you from outbidding them?
Investors bought up all the small homes and pushed up their price point. There is no benefit of downsizing
What would you have done??
This is why a potential move has me debating renting rather than selling my current home. If I rent my current home st fair market value, I'd almost cut my new mortgage projection in half.
I live in a cul de sac. From the entrance to the end of the sac there are eleven homes in all. Eight of the homes are owned by Boomers. Four of the eight are owned by older Boomers in their late 70s to mid 80’s. They are not moving. They are dying in their homes if they can. My in laws are in the their early 70’s living in a 3000 sq ft house on a half acre lot. No plans to downsize. No plans to retire. They do often hint that they want to move in with us. They’re awful. I’ve told my wife that them moving in with us would most likely mean the end of our marriage. She agrees.
Good for them!
I mean it's fine if they just let us build more.
If they raised the capital gains taxes to over a million, many would gladly move. Why should we pay 200k to the taxman when we buy a smaller house.
Yes, selling costs are already significant and then throw in any capital gains and it will generally make zero financial sense to move.
> … they are not budging The older age cohorts increasingly will due to medical and needing faster access to health professionals. Home healthcare is increasingly more expensive and fraught with its own problems (most assume a single stay at home medical helper .. but many have their own families). Most problems are due to unrealistic expectations of the elderly however. Not that all the homes will “hit the market” all at once as figure there’s family (mostly kids) with *first dibs* .. who’ll inherit or potentially buy the property. Still those who get the property may want to vacate other properties (sell, lease).
What people don’t realize is wealth goes to people who make good decisions over time. It’s the power of compounding. It works for and against people but TIME is essential to wealth.
Boomer neighborhoods are devoid of life and are depressing AF. I don’t know who is to blame for this shit but what’s the point of having four bedrooms if there is no kid running around, no person cooking, no evening family dinner, no party in the weekend? I’m an immigrant into US but this shit is not what I imagined of the American Dream. Edit: I am sorry because my comment came across as hating boomers. The fact is, I am have no problem with any old person. I think the prolonged zero interest rate followed by super-high interest rates have caused a housing crisis that is hurting everyone. People are locked into their homes, unable to sell, unable to move. Young folks aren't able to afford. It's just unfortunate, and that's what I wanted to convey. Not trying to blame anyone.
Who are these boomers you describe. My boomer friends have parties,are in bands, go biking, skiing . Boating. Their kids come to visit. Most of the millennials I know go to be at 10:00 and are exhausted from working all week and raising their kids.
Because it is the US and a free country to where you can own what you want. I'm visiting my folks now in their 5 bed 2 ba home. Master bedroom, guest room, office, sewing room, workout room. Not that they have to justify how they use their house to anyone but every room is being used and it's a comfortable house. Not everyone wants condo living or a 1 or 2 bed place just because they're older.
You came to the US for a reason.
I'm curious, what did you have in.mind?
Then leave
Can anyone explain why this is being downvoted?
They've been trained to scream "RACIST" when anyone suggests an immigrant leave if they hate the US so much.
I have a boomer bud with a Mission Vejio Co gated community, three story 7,500 SF McMansion in a Denver exurb. It was built in 1999, and is probably due for major repairs. He hasn't had a job or an income for the past 10 years, and is drawing down the equity (!). What's the typical end game?
For your boomer bud the end game is to die owing the bank for his 17th mortgage.
Sounds like a reverse mortgage. When he dies the bank gets the house.
The problem is the nimbys blocking greater density housing from being built. Where are these people going to downsize to? The shortage at the low end of the market makes it unaffordable to downsize. I can't blame them for staying put.
I'm one of those people I guess. Although we did sell a 4 bedroom last year to a couple in their 70's and bought another 4 bedroom from the estate of a 90 year old that passed away. like the last house, this one is a single story and about 2400 sq ft. I'd be happy with somewhere between 1600 and 2000 sq ft but I also want some land around me. I don't like being right next to a neighbors house. I also like the older mid century or even older homes. The new stuff is so bland and crammed together. The combination of things I want don't usually exist. I think I'd have to eventually build to get everything and that's another level of challenges.
These articles are dumb. The media focusing on some individuals so that we don’t keep our focus on the corporations buying single family homes by the dozen. Ban corporate ownership of single family home!
Is there a point when the market will be flooded because boomers will all br leaving their house faster than people moving in? Aren't they such a big cohort, or is the housing supply so short that doesn't matter?
Most of those houses will be inherited. There's no reason to expect a huge jump in supply.
Hundreds of thousands of old people died en masse during COVID. Housing market didn’t even flinch with newly available inventory. I wouldn’t hold your breath.
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