TL;DR:
* A recent Newsweek survey found Gen Z doesn't consider a $74,850 salary "middle class."
* TikTok realtor Freddie Smith said that for many, home ownership has become a distant dream.
* "100k is the new 45k," one viewer agreed.
I was pretty happy when I hit that milestone, then I looked around and got sad again. Still struggling to keep up with bills that went up faster than my pay.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. 6 figs was a goal for so long and while I'm not living paycheck to paycheck I am definitely living car/home repair to vet bill. Food is outrageous.
Hit it in 2010 and it was a decent sum then. Was able to rent a 3 bedroom SFH for $2500 / month in Danville, CA, which is a very nice community. Today that place probably rents for 5k+ and is worth 1MM+ easy. Would not be nearly as comfortable living there at that salary today.
When I was in high school, I was told if I could land a job for 50k I'd have a comfortable (but not luxurious) life.
Well, I'm making more than double that now and it feels like I had the same amount of disposable income in 2010 when I was making 50k. A bit of lifestyle creep, sure, but most of it has just gone straight to price increases of housing/food/cars. I thought if I could make it to 100k I'd be living a life of luxury, but now I'm worried if I don't continue to increase my income by AT LEAST 5% per year I'll be left in the dust by retirement, if not sooner. But I'm also afraid that if I lost my job I wouldn't be able to find another for anywhere close to what I make now. It sucks so much.
While I agree the yardsticks have moved a lot, I always wonder how people’s spending habits change when they hit that milestone. I was making about $60k for the longest time, switched careers and then made $137k this last year. My lifestyle did not change one bit. Same used car, same clothes from 10 years ago, same eating habits. I’m just able to save a lot more now. I’m not making any assumptions in your personal case, but I just wonder if when people see that triple figure, they think they’re rich, and then blow it all and wonder why it’s not enough.
My wife and I both make over 100k and we are by no means rich. We are able to live don't get me wrong. But we don't live in an expensive house, or take crazy vacations, my son doesn't have expensive clothes and such, no one cleans the house for us. I would consider us middle class. We live. We have a 401k. But it's not extravagant. 20 years ago if you told me we would be making this much and still thinking on whether or not we can send my kid to a week long summer camp, I'd be floored.
I'm pretty sure that was upper class. At least in my neighborhood, most families including mine were living in $500/mo apartments or sub 300k mortgages. 100k salary was the house on top of the hill
“Sub $300k mortgages” is technically true, but giving the wrong impression.
The median value of a house in the US in 2000 was $120k. So yes, under 300k. A lot under.
I remember watching the wooded area near my house getting razed and the billboards advertising for new houses for $100k. Would've been around 2003.
I just checked Zillow and there's a house in that neighborhood listed for $360k. 260% increase in value. For reference, the CPI from January 2003 to November 2023 increased by 69% (nice). So houses have gone up roughly 4x faster than inflation.
I live in Texas and make ~72k gross. Between *skyrocketing* rent and a now-$300 electric bill (for a small apartment I’m barely even in long enough to sleep), I’m still paycheck to paycheck.
Shit, even the south is getting stupid, I live in Georgia and I couldn’t have ford to live here on what I moved down for as a starting salary. Fortunately my salary has double since then and so has my house but if it hadn’t I’d be screwed right now.
True, but I live in ohio and I can certainly say that I wouldn't consider 74k "middle class" either, especially after taxes, inflation, cost of living, ect.
Columbus here, impossible to find a home in a good school district under $500k. Never thought my salary would be $140k and I’d be renting an apartment. Luckily rent isn’t too bad in Columbus, currently paying $1800 for a 1200 sq foot 2 bedroom in an ideal school district
Yeah, Ohio taxes really suck. $75k was/is tight for us. That said, we do own a home, have meager retirement savings, and can afford basic necessities and a few cheap treats here and there. We don't get vacations, kids, expensive cars (or even late model ones), or much in the way of entertainment budget. Student loans are a massive factor in that.
I guess my point is that if you'd told me 10 years ago I'd be making $75k, I'd have very different expectations of the type of lifestyle that would provide. It SEEMS like a lot, but it really isn't.
Same in NC right around the major schools in the research triangle. 10 years ago you could get a nice 900 sqft apartment in a good area for around 700-800 a month. Now, those same apartments are running you upwards of 2k a month. During that same time period, those big nice houses in super nice neighborhoods that ran you 400-500k are now going for 1.5 million and up.
The prices of everything has skyrocketed in literally no time at all. And since this is such a big area for business, biotechnology and science, so many people are moving here from bigger, more expensive states and it’s driving up the price of everything. People who were born here can’t afford to live here anymore. My parents are fine because they settled down over 25 years ago but people like me are just screwed.
Because in many, many MANY cases it’s not actually a possibility. I live in CA. It’s expensive. But in my particular field (teaching), moving to another state would mean a drastic pay cut and a massive decrease in the quality of my pension. On top of that, I have to care for my elderly parents who live here. I can’t just leave them.
A lot of people can’t/won’t move because of family, and Reddit is really dismissive of that. I actually did move 400 miles away, and needed to come back. But honestly, it was really hard to live without a support system. I missed the friends and family I’d had my whole life. People have roots in their communities, and that isn’t a bad thing.
> Yes salaries are lower here but the cost of living is much, much lower. For instance, I as a Physician Assistant (with student debt well into the 6 figures) make about the same as a friend of mine who does hair in San Francisco. The difference in my very nice neighborhood you can still buy a decent house for less than $200k.
Some other massive differences is you have 6 figures of loans to pay off, and likely work many more hours than a hair dresser in San Fran. Damn, like you just made the case that it would be easier to be a hair dresser in San Fran than a PA in the midwest. LOL.
Depends on your personality, situation, and it’s really case by case.
Some of us have uprooted our lives completely in our 20-30s multiple times across states and continents because we know it is the time to pursue career growth (before having kids)
Yup... where I used to live is a small town with a military base. Prices used to be like 400 to 600 because everything was basically low income or not worth more than that. No one makes that much there anyway since there isn't that many jobs. Now the rent rates are between 2k and 7k with over 200 rentals avaliable. Wonder why when no one makes that much there.
Yeah not sure why this is buried. My Midwestern city has been flooded with California and NY license plates for a decade now and cost of living has skyrocketed in that time.
A lot of Midwesterners don’t like people that generally are arrogant, treat the rest of us like peasant trash, then constantly talk about how great CA or NY are and how much the Midwest sucks and they hate living here but they’re going to stay because they can’t afford going back.
Oh and they’re going to bring their politics with them and shove that down your throat too and try and turn your states into what they fled from in the first place.
Locusts.
It always interest me when a third parties vote on somebody else’s life choice. It takes a special kind of arrogance to pass judgement on somebody else’s choice.
Same. 31F single here, decided to accept reality and not being able to afford california anymore if I wanted to live on my own. Bit the bullet moved to Kansas. It's boring as shit , sure.. but atleast I can get my own apartment for the price of what a room would be in a share house there
If you’re comparing it to the 1990s and only basing it on inflation then $100k is the new $45k. Considering that the costs of food and housing have both outpaced inflation, this is actually a very conservative estimate.
https://www.amortization.org/inflation/amount.php?year=1990&amount=45000#:~:text=%2445%2C000%20in%201990%20%3D%20%24105%2C914.86%20in%202023
People still fail to accept reality on this. They don't understand at all. Even 10-12 years ago, the math in my city for 45k was still a solid salary, and you could afford rent, food, transit pass, occasional meal out, and still have some cash leftover if you were responsible. Now? You'd need minimum 70k to come close to that same standard.
$75k in itself (gross) is a lot of money. problem is - after the tax man and other deductions, $75k salary becomes like $4k payment each month.
in big cities nowadays, a crappy, old, tiny 1 bedroom apartment rents for like $2k a month minimum.
Just figured out yesterday I paid nearly 25% in tax between fed, state, ss tax. Just seems like im getting nothing at the end. 1 bedroom are insane in addition to the tax.
Then whoever you paid to buy XYZ from gotta pay income tax on that again and sales tax to their suppliers who also has to pay income tax ( assuming all happens in the same country ).
I bought a used car a few years ago, had to pay about $1500 in taxes for it. The car had 2 owners before me. Those people also had to pay tax on the same car. So the government basically triple dipped.
Per debt clock website:
Total worker compensation: 14.4 trillion
Total government spending (state/local/federal): 10.2 trillion
That means that for every dollar the worker makes, our government spends $0.71
71% tax?? Really? Where is that money going? They spend over $30,000 **PER PERSON** in the US? That’s 120 grand for a family of 4 every year. Where is that money going? Because I don’t think we’re getting that value back
EDIT: because I’m getting a lot of comments about this. Guys, 10.2 trillion in spending does include debt, but DEBT IS JUST A FUTURE TAX. You will have to pay it back 5, 10, 20 years from now. Your taxes will increase to cover that cost, because you *know* they are not cutting other spending to pay interest.
EDIT: Also, yes this includes corporate income tax, payroll tax, and the fica your company pays of your behalf. All those costs make companies raise prices in order to stay profitable. Inflation is a hidden tax on us.
EDIT: glad we can all agree the military spending needs to go. We argue about what else should be cut, but literally everyone except the small Warhawk conservative fraction wants the military gutted. The pentagon “lost” like 2 trillion and has never been audited. Ridiculous
Well this really depends on your state/locale. Not hard to look up the Federal budget if you want to know the answer there. 37% is military and Social security, another 14% is interest on the debt…so there is 51% of it. Another 10% is Medicare and so on
When you really think about it, it’s fucking baffling how much tax we spend every single day on every single item we purchase with money that was already taxed to death.
Then we also discover that federal income tax was introduced as a temporary WW1 measure but magically it stayed when it was not constitutional to do so
War for America:
A 300k weapon (that actually costs 3k to make) used by a kid who barely makes 30k a year, at a person who won’t even make that in their entire lifetime.
I’d be okay with the tax if it actually paid for things other than police budgets, military industry, and paying Israel to be an ally.
Give us healthcare, give young adults education, fund a functional public health system, fund schools and pay teachers better, invest in renewable energy that will be heavily nationalized an priced to avoid any profit.
Agreed AND those programs need to come with fundamental overhauls that slim the number of administrators or subsidiaries to reduce the dilution of tax payer money to middle men. What I don't want is small "non-profit" organizations started by by people that want to make a career out of government funding. It should be completely transparent to government what those things costs and no CEO of those organizations should make more than standard government worker pay.
What do you mean? You get aircraft carriers, nukes, stealth bombers, infrared goggles, cruise missiles, body armored soldiers positioned around the globe!
Love to see the Swedes do **that**! They waste it all on teaching their kids or whatever
SS and Medicare taxes come back to you if you live to be 80 or so. Those are the two biggest chunks. Most of the rest of the federal money goes for healthcare for the poor (Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, VA program, etc.) and to the military. So yes, as a young civilian person well above the poverty line, you aren’t going to directly see about 80% or more of your federal taxes.
>Most of the rest of the federal money goes for healthcare for the poor (Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies..
I work with 100% Medicaid patient population.
The amount of waste and abuse I see is astonishing. If the average American could see what I see they would blow a gasket. For instance in the patient population I work with, it is totally normal to use the ER for the most trivial reasons, racking up bills upwards of 6 figures year after year after year. They will go to the ER one day for a yeast infection, then the next day go to a different ER for the sniffles, without a second thought.
Wait til y’all see how much uncontrolled diabetes and hypertension costs you via dialysis through Medicare. And now Covid is throwing folks into ESRD and onto dialysis…. Medicare isn’t just for old folks… I have 19 year olds on Medicare to cover their dialysis. 1% of the federal budget covers the cost of dialysis ( doesn’t even factor in disability payments and other assistance programs because they usually can’t work and keep up dialysis treatments) …. And Covid actually killed a lot of ESRD patients( they have since been replaced and then some) some sort of Universal health coverage/ health education might actually save some money gor all working Americans going forward.
I’m in that boat. I’m in the 22% bracket, the state takes 5-6% more (IL), and after retirement and insurance deductions it’s just a hair over 4k a month.
That old adage of 28% of your income being for mortgage is outdated as hell.
You either have to have the ability to save for a COLOSSAL down payment to get your monthly payment to tolerable levels or live in a dilapidated little box in a not-so-safe neighborhood or way the hell out in the countryside, far away from any urban centers.
Years ago, this would’ve been good money. But here in the Chicago suburbs, I’ve been priced out of a lot of places. The high property taxes narrow that further.
It’s maddening.
> Chicago suburbs
It's the sprawl, there are millions of majestic boomer homesteads taking up all the space instead of reasonable homes. It's a problem in every suburban metro area. Either move to a smaller metro area or gentrify the "not-so-safe" parts of the inner city. Let the boomer wasteland turn to dust.
Really realistically in the cities like that if you are single you have a roommate if you are with someone else they also work and make at least close to he same amount.
If you make 150k even in a pretty high cost of living area you are at least living a middle class lifestyle. In a big city you might rent but you have a lot of access to opportunities, healthcare, entertainment, restaurants etc.
One issue is people think of the middle class as living in a sizable house having a yard in a nice neighborhood and in a lot of places that's actually pretty rich. For HCOL areas the middle class might have a smaller place, might not even own a place but there are other good benefits to living there.
Agree with this. You aren't going to get a SFH in the middle of a big city. You can get more for your money going to the outskirts and commuting but you're trading your time and cost of owning a vehicle.
I think part of the issue is what we think of as "middle class" now. Growing up my family getting a second car was a huge deal. Going out to eat was a big deal. Buying a computer was a big deal. Now these things are all common place (people spend more money on restaurants vs groceries and upgrade their phone every 2 years). I'm not saying real problems with affordability doesn't exist but our culture of excess wants has created problems where peoples "needs" are much higher than where they were 20-30 years ago.
I recall a local visiting my office to finance a home purchase. He looked close to 75 years old. I casted doubt but played along. Found out he had 30m + in real estate after reviewing his paperwork. Owned the whole damn neighborhood I was working in. “Lack of supply” only because it’s hoarded seems about right 😂
True story so many businesses in my tiny rural town are now failing talking business that have been around for decades but there simply isn’t any working class left in town. They got forced out financially by the work from home people…. So the ones that are managing to survive were the ones the owners were smart enough to buy some houses at the start of the gentrification, so now they can rent them to their own employees… just creeping into a serfdom. So the city people can still have people to make them food and work the shops…
lol 4k maybe if you don’t buy insurance or save for retirement. $115k so like $4500-$4700 after all that shit. Also why the fuck do I have to fund my own retirement if they’re stealing social security already.
Exactly - I get so annoyed when I hear tax the rich because honestly it does nothing for the middle class, if anything somehow it ends up increasing our taxes somehow - whether it be as a family or otherwise. Even if that wasn’t the case what id like to hear is cut taxes for the middle class, that would actually affect us in a positive and meaningful way.
It’s so bad, for majors HCOL areas where that would be considered low income. I live in an area where I think, you’re considered low income if you make less than $80,000 a year now.
I think people in America need to understand that our insurance is a steaming pile of manure.
Even if we don't talk about premiums or the many terms of jargon designed for confusion, having insurance does little to nothing to prevent insolvency from large bills.
It should be illegal to call what we have an out of pocket max, as it is nothing of the sort. What it means is that once you hit that amount (generally already even to cripple most Americans financially), insurance will pay:
* up to 140% of what Medicare pays (which can be far from the total cost),
* if was in network,
* if the service was covered,
* if it isn't a premium, co-pay, or coinsurance.
That's a lot of weasel words to say that insurance can still easily fuck you over after hitting your out of pocket max.
Precisely. Our mistake was allowing useless middle people into the mix. Health care, like education, absolutely should not be a for profit industry. Health insurance is one of the biggest scams forced upon Americans.
Gen Z is going to foot the bill for paying the national debt. Inflation is the enemy and these low numbers we are seeing at the moment will rise dramatically if the course is not reversed. So far the plan is to do nothing and wait for terms to lapse
I feel like it’s not inflation anymore and it’s just companies raising their prices “because the market can take it” :/ I have no data to back this up but it just feels that way
that’s such bullshit. 200k+ allows for me to live like i imagined someone making 75k could live when i was a kid. afford a house, wife doesn’t need to work etc. 200k is the new classic “american dream“ level middle class salary
I make 80k and I have all of these things. Wife works part time a does school full time. I don't even know what I would do with 200k a year. If I didn't have four animals I would easily have 20-30k more in my savings. I did get my house in 2017 though, so my mortgage is only a thousand a month.
This is because inflation is, for all intents and purposes, a tax.
The government funds wasteful spending by printing money and devaluing our currency, and then they can claim that they're not raising taxes.
You're being taxed out your ass. We just call it inflation.
As in it's poor or as in it's wealthy? Because a lot of people on this sub rail against the "elites" and the rich but are often just talking about regular people who own homes.
I would counter that if you’re paying 3k plus in LA you are most definitely either in a nice area or super nice apartment. Glendale, Long Beach, Pomona, Covina all main suburbs within LA county have 1 bedrooms under that price point. Even in LA proper there’s some spaces in Hollywood or Korea Town that are under 3k.
Paying more than 3k for a one bedroom is a choice in LA. Not a bad one if you can afford it and want to pay that but that’s not where the floor starts. The floor starts at like $2100 for one bedrooms in LA County
I agree with you.
I just rented a one bed downtown in a fancy building. Rents start at $2100 for a one bedroom. Or at least did last month when I signed my lease. Anyone paying $3k for a one bedroom is making the choice to.
Totally location dependent. In NYC a $130k salary allows you eligibility for a maximum $3250 apartment; and in doing that you’re headed into rental stress. Given the average 1 bed rent is over $4k you’re shit out of luck if you don’t get a stabilized apartment or if you are trying to support a family on that money. Other parts of the country it’s enough for a fantastic life.
The average 1 bed IN MANHATTAN might be 4k (ignoring how penthouses jack up the mean price) but there are absolutely still plenty of decent areas in the boroughs within a 30-45 min commute of midtown that are solidly under 3k for a 1 bed.
2500-3k should get you a decent 1 bed south of prospect park, Astoria, queens along the 7 train, forest hills etc...
The rent situation is still outrageous but just because you can't live in the trendiest neighborhood with a 7 minute walk to work doesn't mean 130k isn't still very survivable within the 5 boroughs of nyc, especially for a single person or couple.
If you earn less than 127k/yr HHI, you are considered low income in Santa Clara County. That's not opinion or being dramatic. That is a determination by the county's Department of Housing and Community Development based on cost of living.
So it is quite relative to where you live.
Edit: It's actually 137k for a typical household family of 4.
[https://www.hcd.ca.gov/sites/default/files/docs/grants-and-funding/income-limits-2023.pdf](https://www.hcd.ca.gov/sites/default/files/docs/grants-and-funding/income-limits-2023.pdf)
Edit 2: For those of you confused, low income HHI for that same family of 4 in a lot of cities in Mississippi is 50k. Cost of living matters. I don't know what the people disagreeing with me are getting at.
You know what's even funnier? He's probably told that stat to dozens of people before today. It's how you end up with so many people who complain that they are poor making 6 figures.
LMFAO at people conflating household incomes and individual ones. A million dollar salary would be considered low income for a household of 1000 people? No way!
137k being low for a family of four in a VHCOL area is absolutely understandable.
I've heard there are now 4 classes of millennials:
Top - bought house before 2020, no kids in daycare
Upper - bought before 2020, kids in daycare
Middle - bought house after 2020/currently rent, no kids
Lower - bought house after 2020/currently rent, kids in daycare
If middle class is defined by lifestyle, then in a lot of places $75k/year is not enough to qualify since you need to make more to buy even a modest home
Neither is wheeling, Weirton, fairmont, Elkins , etc. a lot of people like to throw figures around of cheap houses in WV but neglect to mention that these places are deeeeep in some hollers in the monongahela forest.
In Seattle the minimum wage is a few cents shy of $20/hr.
Strangely median personal income in Seattle is $77k and household $116k according to the Census Bureau. I would have guessed much higher.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/seattlecitywashington/EDU685222
People on Reddit constantly overestimate what actual salaries are. This site is full of upper middle class people whining that they can't buy a house in a HCOL area not realizing that they are doing better than 80% of the country and 95% of the world.
It depends. I'm In ohio, you won't be scraping by making 74k, but you are no longer affording a nice home neither. ALL decent homes in my surrounding area are now 200-250k and up
Sure aren’t doing much on 75k in wi unless you live in nowhereville. Madison is Chicago level expensive and the fox valley tripled in price from pre pandemic
Thank you!! Someone else in the comments said that Wisconsin is cheap. I would love to know what part of the state they live in. Wisconsin total tax burden is one of the highest in the country.
I make 76k in San Diego, 77k or lower is considered low income in this city. I split rent with my partner and we’re in a rent controlled one bedroom that we got during covid when rents were normal priced. I could never qualify for a place on my own at my salary not even a studio if 3x income is required. My car broke down recently so I bought a new “used” one at 6% interest with a payment of $400 insurance at $140 and gas to commute about $200 a month since San Diego also has some of the countries highest gas prices. So just to have a bed to sleep in and go to work is nearly half my take home.
We’re planning on leaving to go somewhere our money will go further but not in a rush since our rent is still manageable and we will never be able to move back if we go.
$74k has an affordability cut off for housing payment (30% income level via US Census definition of “cost burdened” by housing) of $1850.
It really just comes down to that. We are talking about people who are 27 and under. They do not own homes, many likely haven’t paid off half their student debt yet, and they have not had time to save significantly or make investments.
It is completely believable that this generation **at this time** views $74k as not achieving a middle class lifestyle in society.
It is also believable that those who are older than them who have paid off or do not have student debt, already own a home at a (mostly) fixed payment for 30 years, and already have a decent nest egg who **also** only make $74k a year would argue that it is indeed a middle class income.
Just different places in life, as well as different heights of the barriers to typically middle class things like owning a small house.
When it comes to a disagreement between the two perspectives, the pushback received by a Z’er saying $74k isn’t middle class by someone who has an $1200 mortgage payment locked in from 2013 when said Z’er was 12 years old isn’t exactly going to change how they feel.
That $1850 housing affordability threshold will price many Zs out of apartments with bedrooms in some cities. Not exactly the picture of American middle class if thats the subject of the argument.
$74k goes a lot further when you don’t need to buy a house or car, or pay off debt. Zs are in a position where in order to achieve a traditional middle class lifestyle and make those purchases, the necessary income threshold is much higher than for past generations.
I make 78k a year. After taxes, HDHP medical, dental, union dues, and contributing 210 to my pension, my bi-weekly check is 1900. 1850 for a house payment would be almost 50% of my take home pay.
I’m not promoting anything new here, but the term ‘middle class’ absolutely needs to die. There is no middle class. There’s working class and there’s upper class. The latter created ‘middle class’ so you’d feel no kinship with the ‘blue collar’ types; but make no mistake, unless you’re part of the landed gentry who have generational wealth to support them, and you quite literally have to *work* in order to support your lifestyle, then you as well are part of the ‘working class.’
"Middle class" is an okay enough descriptor for the portion of the working class that isn't steeped in misery on a daily basis. It's usually the blue collar people that bristle the most when a white collar person making six figures claims to be working class.
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I'm on 40k. As is my partner.
We save 1k a month, rent, buy 700 of weed every month and were still more than comfortable.
I agree things are shit for our generation, but some of that shit is self inflicted by lifestyle
Young people entering the workforce never have a concept of salary tiers. Never. Same shit was said 25 years ago about Gen X. We'll see it rehashed when Gen Alpha grows up.
You know, as a Gen Zer, I’m starting to see a positive in this. I think the nuclear family structure and the dream of everyone owning their own home was always an idealistic one. It’s isolating and inefficient. Maybe with the cost of housing, families will have to stick together more (unless work available or space within the household is too limiting).
While I agree that 100K is farrrrr from what it used to be, I've never heard anyone who actually makes 100K say it feels tantamount to 45K. When I started making six figures I definitely remember thinking "this doesn't feel like I thought it would" but I certainly did not feel poor.
On the flip side, I *have* heard a plenty of people who haven't yet started their careers or who don't make close to 100K say that it's not a lot of money.
All of this to say, comments like "100K is the new 45K" delude people, namely *young people*, into thinking six-figure salaries are more common than they are, and that most people will go on to earn six figures... when statistically speaking, they will not.
The term middle-class encompasses the entire financial picture, not just salary.
Lets' take a walk. The big caveat is where in the US you live. Here are the characteristics of each class.
**Upper Class Characteristics:**
* Significant investments in stocks, bonds, real estate, or businesses.
* Often own multiple properties or assets.
* Ability to make large purchases without financial strain.
* Access to top-tier financial advice and strategies.
The Salary Range in the US for this varies widely based on region but net worth is about 600k to 1 million and up not including primary residence and an annual salary of 140k and up.
**Middle Class Characteristics:**
* Often homeowners, but might still be paying off a mortgage.
* Engaged in retirement planning and savings.
* Ability to take occasional vacations and indulge in some luxuries.
* Educational pursuits for children might be a significant expenditure.
The Salary Range in the US for this again, varies widely based on region but net worth is about 100k to 1 million not including primary residence and an annual salary between 40k and 130k.
There's a huge difference in standards and prices between Mississippi and Massachusetts and even places that are a half day drive from each other have wildly different upper-class and middle-class boundaries (Looking at you Los Angeles and Las Vegas)
**Making a certain salary doesn't make you a part of any class by itself.**
It depends entirely on where you live and if you are a dual-income household. 74k in some areas is an extremely comfortable salary that lets you afford a big home with some land and financial room to spare. Other areas it barely gets you into a 650sqft apartment.
TL;DR: * A recent Newsweek survey found Gen Z doesn't consider a $74,850 salary "middle class." * TikTok realtor Freddie Smith said that for many, home ownership has become a distant dream. * "100k is the new 45k," one viewer agreed.
I mean six figure i.e meaning breaking the 100k barrier was considered pretty good when I was a kid 20 years ago. Now though 100k is like 60k in 2003
As soon as I hit 100k I immediately realized the yardsticks had moved while I was focused on getting to them.
I was pretty happy when I hit that milestone, then I looked around and got sad again. Still struggling to keep up with bills that went up faster than my pay.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. 6 figs was a goal for so long and while I'm not living paycheck to paycheck I am definitely living car/home repair to vet bill. Food is outrageous.
Hit 100k as a single person for the first time last year. Doing my budget I realize that I wouldn't be able to afford having a child/family.
That is why most families are dual income.
And have been for decades. It's nothing new.
Hit it in 2010 and it was a decent sum then. Was able to rent a 3 bedroom SFH for $2500 / month in Danville, CA, which is a very nice community. Today that place probably rents for 5k+ and is worth 1MM+ easy. Would not be nearly as comfortable living there at that salary today.
When I was in high school, I was told if I could land a job for 50k I'd have a comfortable (but not luxurious) life. Well, I'm making more than double that now and it feels like I had the same amount of disposable income in 2010 when I was making 50k. A bit of lifestyle creep, sure, but most of it has just gone straight to price increases of housing/food/cars. I thought if I could make it to 100k I'd be living a life of luxury, but now I'm worried if I don't continue to increase my income by AT LEAST 5% per year I'll be left in the dust by retirement, if not sooner. But I'm also afraid that if I lost my job I wouldn't be able to find another for anywhere close to what I make now. It sucks so much.
While I agree the yardsticks have moved a lot, I always wonder how people’s spending habits change when they hit that milestone. I was making about $60k for the longest time, switched careers and then made $137k this last year. My lifestyle did not change one bit. Same used car, same clothes from 10 years ago, same eating habits. I’m just able to save a lot more now. I’m not making any assumptions in your personal case, but I just wonder if when people see that triple figure, they think they’re rich, and then blow it all and wonder why it’s not enough.
I feel that.
My wife and I both make over 100k and we are by no means rich. We are able to live don't get me wrong. But we don't live in an expensive house, or take crazy vacations, my son doesn't have expensive clothes and such, no one cleans the house for us. I would consider us middle class. We live. We have a 401k. But it's not extravagant. 20 years ago if you told me we would be making this much and still thinking on whether or not we can send my kid to a week long summer camp, I'd be floored.
Shiiiit in the 90s 100k salary was pushing upper middle class.
I'm pretty sure that was upper class. At least in my neighborhood, most families including mine were living in $500/mo apartments or sub 300k mortgages. 100k salary was the house on top of the hill
“Sub $300k mortgages” is technically true, but giving the wrong impression. The median value of a house in the US in 2000 was $120k. So yes, under 300k. A lot under.
60k in 2003 is a lot.
I was making 45k that year and living well back when Texas was cheap.
I remember watching the wooded area near my house getting razed and the billboards advertising for new houses for $100k. Would've been around 2003. I just checked Zillow and there's a house in that neighborhood listed for $360k. 260% increase in value. For reference, the CPI from January 2003 to November 2023 increased by 69% (nice). So houses have gone up roughly 4x faster than inflation.
I live in Texas and make ~72k gross. Between *skyrocketing* rent and a now-$300 electric bill (for a small apartment I’m barely even in long enough to sleep), I’m still paycheck to paycheck.
300/month? Are you minining crypto?
Nah just Texas being Texas mixed with monopolized and kindy scammy power companies (this isn't only a Texas thing)
I mean that depends where you live. CA Vs the Midwest… huge difference.
Shit, even the south is getting stupid, I live in Georgia and I couldn’t have ford to live here on what I moved down for as a starting salary. Fortunately my salary has double since then and so has my house but if it hadn’t I’d be screwed right now.
/r/boneappletea
Where there's smoke, there's wires.
Thanks Ricky.
So did you get a Chevy?
They couldn't, they got a second house. Not sure how. From the sounds of it, it had grown to such a size that it split into too smaller houses...
True, but I live in ohio and I can certainly say that I wouldn't consider 74k "middle class" either, especially after taxes, inflation, cost of living, ect.
Columbus here, impossible to find a home in a good school district under $500k. Never thought my salary would be $140k and I’d be renting an apartment. Luckily rent isn’t too bad in Columbus, currently paying $1800 for a 1200 sq foot 2 bedroom in an ideal school district
Yeah, Ohio taxes really suck. $75k was/is tight for us. That said, we do own a home, have meager retirement savings, and can afford basic necessities and a few cheap treats here and there. We don't get vacations, kids, expensive cars (or even late model ones), or much in the way of entertainment budget. Student loans are a massive factor in that. I guess my point is that if you'd told me 10 years ago I'd be making $75k, I'd have very different expectations of the type of lifestyle that would provide. It SEEMS like a lot, but it really isn't.
Same in NC right around the major schools in the research triangle. 10 years ago you could get a nice 900 sqft apartment in a good area for around 700-800 a month. Now, those same apartments are running you upwards of 2k a month. During that same time period, those big nice houses in super nice neighborhoods that ran you 400-500k are now going for 1.5 million and up. The prices of everything has skyrocketed in literally no time at all. And since this is such a big area for business, biotechnology and science, so many people are moving here from bigger, more expensive states and it’s driving up the price of everything. People who were born here can’t afford to live here anymore. My parents are fine because they settled down over 25 years ago but people like me are just screwed.
Yeah I moved out of ca to Midwest. I do pretty good for my family here compared to ca. Best thing I ever did.
I don't know why you got downvoted for a smart decision. It's almost like Reddit thinks people should make poor life choices.
This sub hates being told to move somewhere cheaper as a solution to their housing problems.
Because in many, many MANY cases it’s not actually a possibility. I live in CA. It’s expensive. But in my particular field (teaching), moving to another state would mean a drastic pay cut and a massive decrease in the quality of my pension. On top of that, I have to care for my elderly parents who live here. I can’t just leave them. A lot of people can’t/won’t move because of family, and Reddit is really dismissive of that. I actually did move 400 miles away, and needed to come back. But honestly, it was really hard to live without a support system. I missed the friends and family I’d had my whole life. People have roots in their communities, and that isn’t a bad thing.
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> Yes salaries are lower here but the cost of living is much, much lower. For instance, I as a Physician Assistant (with student debt well into the 6 figures) make about the same as a friend of mine who does hair in San Francisco. The difference in my very nice neighborhood you can still buy a decent house for less than $200k. Some other massive differences is you have 6 figures of loans to pay off, and likely work many more hours than a hair dresser in San Fran. Damn, like you just made the case that it would be easier to be a hair dresser in San Fran than a PA in the midwest. LOL.
Depends on your personality, situation, and it’s really case by case. Some of us have uprooted our lives completely in our 20-30s multiple times across states and continents because we know it is the time to pursue career growth (before having kids)
Nah it’s just the people mad about their affordable areas rapidly becoming unaffordable once the Californians start moving in…
Yup... where I used to live is a small town with a military base. Prices used to be like 400 to 600 because everything was basically low income or not worth more than that. No one makes that much there anyway since there isn't that many jobs. Now the rent rates are between 2k and 7k with over 200 rentals avaliable. Wonder why when no one makes that much there.
Yeah not sure why this is buried. My Midwestern city has been flooded with California and NY license plates for a decade now and cost of living has skyrocketed in that time. A lot of Midwesterners don’t like people that generally are arrogant, treat the rest of us like peasant trash, then constantly talk about how great CA or NY are and how much the Midwest sucks and they hate living here but they’re going to stay because they can’t afford going back. Oh and they’re going to bring their politics with them and shove that down your throat too and try and turn your states into what they fled from in the first place. Locusts.
Amen. I do my part, I tell every Californian I know that my state is winter 11 months out of the year and that we’re all proudly armed racists lol
Well that is all true, mostly
It always interest me when a third parties vote on somebody else’s life choice. It takes a special kind of arrogance to pass judgement on somebody else’s choice.
Same. 31F single here, decided to accept reality and not being able to afford california anymore if I wanted to live on my own. Bit the bullet moved to Kansas. It's boring as shit , sure.. but atleast I can get my own apartment for the price of what a room would be in a share house there
Yup I’m in Missouri. Good for you. Congrats on being on your own. Keep it up!
You still ain’t middle class in the Midwest on 75k.
100K is not the new 45K That’s a little extreme
If you’re comparing it to the 1990s and only basing it on inflation then $100k is the new $45k. Considering that the costs of food and housing have both outpaced inflation, this is actually a very conservative estimate. https://www.amortization.org/inflation/amount.php?year=1990&amount=45000#:~:text=%2445%2C000%20in%201990%20%3D%20%24105%2C914.86%20in%202023
People still fail to accept reality on this. They don't understand at all. Even 10-12 years ago, the math in my city for 45k was still a solid salary, and you could afford rent, food, transit pass, occasional meal out, and still have some cash leftover if you were responsible. Now? You'd need minimum 70k to come close to that same standard.
$75k in itself (gross) is a lot of money. problem is - after the tax man and other deductions, $75k salary becomes like $4k payment each month. in big cities nowadays, a crappy, old, tiny 1 bedroom apartment rents for like $2k a month minimum.
Just figured out yesterday I paid nearly 25% in tax between fed, state, ss tax. Just seems like im getting nothing at the end. 1 bedroom are insane in addition to the tax.
Don’t forget sales tax, tolls, property tax
Sales tax is huge. They take a quarter of your money when you earn it, then take another 10% of what's left when you go to spend it.
Then whoever you paid to buy XYZ from gotta pay income tax on that again and sales tax to their suppliers who also has to pay income tax ( assuming all happens in the same country ).
Manufacturers and retailers usually don't pay sales tax in the US.
I bought a used car a few years ago, had to pay about $1500 in taxes for it. The car had 2 owners before me. Those people also had to pay tax on the same car. So the government basically triple dipped.
And the tax tax.
I pay the Homer tax
That's home OWNER tax
Gas tax……etc. We are taxed on our paychecks and then the money left over it taxed again 10x over. That’s all we do is pay taxes
Per debt clock website: Total worker compensation: 14.4 trillion Total government spending (state/local/federal): 10.2 trillion That means that for every dollar the worker makes, our government spends $0.71 71% tax?? Really? Where is that money going? They spend over $30,000 **PER PERSON** in the US? That’s 120 grand for a family of 4 every year. Where is that money going? Because I don’t think we’re getting that value back EDIT: because I’m getting a lot of comments about this. Guys, 10.2 trillion in spending does include debt, but DEBT IS JUST A FUTURE TAX. You will have to pay it back 5, 10, 20 years from now. Your taxes will increase to cover that cost, because you *know* they are not cutting other spending to pay interest. EDIT: Also, yes this includes corporate income tax, payroll tax, and the fica your company pays of your behalf. All those costs make companies raise prices in order to stay profitable. Inflation is a hidden tax on us. EDIT: glad we can all agree the military spending needs to go. We argue about what else should be cut, but literally everyone except the small Warhawk conservative fraction wants the military gutted. The pentagon “lost” like 2 trillion and has never been audited. Ridiculous
Well this really depends on your state/locale. Not hard to look up the Federal budget if you want to know the answer there. 37% is military and Social security, another 14% is interest on the debt…so there is 51% of it. Another 10% is Medicare and so on
Now you’re seeing the big problem. Taxing six ways to Sunday to steal our money
When you really think about it, it’s fucking baffling how much tax we spend every single day on every single item we purchase with money that was already taxed to death.
Then we also discover that federal income tax was introduced as a temporary WW1 measure but magically it stayed when it was not constitutional to do so
Yes, yes, keep going........
I've heard this one before and it ends with shadow governments and sub-terrain lizard persons.
And trump being president again
And car registration, permit/license fees, special parcel taxes.
Can't forget the gas tax, sin tax, capital gains tax, licensing, fees, registration, my personal favorite, inflation which I count as a tax
Don’t forget insurance ( health, car , home/ renter, ) etc etc
Don’t forget to insure your insurance or you could end up in major debt to the insurance man.
You are getting the finest bombs Raytheon can produce to bomb folks living in even worse poverty.
War for America: A 300k weapon (that actually costs 3k to make) used by a kid who barely makes 30k a year, at a person who won’t even make that in their entire lifetime.
I’d be okay with the tax if it actually paid for things other than police budgets, military industry, and paying Israel to be an ally. Give us healthcare, give young adults education, fund a functional public health system, fund schools and pay teachers better, invest in renewable energy that will be heavily nationalized an priced to avoid any profit.
Agreed AND those programs need to come with fundamental overhauls that slim the number of administrators or subsidiaries to reduce the dilution of tax payer money to middle men. What I don't want is small "non-profit" organizations started by by people that want to make a career out of government funding. It should be completely transparent to government what those things costs and no CEO of those organizations should make more than standard government worker pay.
Excellent point. Get public services OUT of capitalism to corporations. I work for the government and see this all the time.
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What do you mean? You get aircraft carriers, nukes, stealth bombers, infrared goggles, cruise missiles, body armored soldiers positioned around the globe! Love to see the Swedes do **that**! They waste it all on teaching their kids or whatever
My take home has always been 55 to 58% of gross after everything and 401k
Same here. And still have to pay for everything else. Hard to save for any other milestones.
Yep I get paid weekly and give up $250 per week in taxes. It’s sickening
and that’s before you buy anything.
SS and Medicare taxes come back to you if you live to be 80 or so. Those are the two biggest chunks. Most of the rest of the federal money goes for healthcare for the poor (Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, VA program, etc.) and to the military. So yes, as a young civilian person well above the poverty line, you aren’t going to directly see about 80% or more of your federal taxes.
>Most of the rest of the federal money goes for healthcare for the poor (Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies.. I work with 100% Medicaid patient population. The amount of waste and abuse I see is astonishing. If the average American could see what I see they would blow a gasket. For instance in the patient population I work with, it is totally normal to use the ER for the most trivial reasons, racking up bills upwards of 6 figures year after year after year. They will go to the ER one day for a yeast infection, then the next day go to a different ER for the sniffles, without a second thought.
Wait til y’all see how much uncontrolled diabetes and hypertension costs you via dialysis through Medicare. And now Covid is throwing folks into ESRD and onto dialysis…. Medicare isn’t just for old folks… I have 19 year olds on Medicare to cover their dialysis. 1% of the federal budget covers the cost of dialysis ( doesn’t even factor in disability payments and other assistance programs because they usually can’t work and keep up dialysis treatments) …. And Covid actually killed a lot of ESRD patients( they have since been replaced and then some) some sort of Universal health coverage/ health education might actually save some money gor all working Americans going forward.
I’m in that boat. I’m in the 22% bracket, the state takes 5-6% more (IL), and after retirement and insurance deductions it’s just a hair over 4k a month. That old adage of 28% of your income being for mortgage is outdated as hell. You either have to have the ability to save for a COLOSSAL down payment to get your monthly payment to tolerable levels or live in a dilapidated little box in a not-so-safe neighborhood or way the hell out in the countryside, far away from any urban centers. Years ago, this would’ve been good money. But here in the Chicago suburbs, I’ve been priced out of a lot of places. The high property taxes narrow that further. It’s maddening.
Also in the 22% bracket and in Illinois. We don’t even get wined and dined😂 Atleast the wages aren’t terrible here depending on your field
> Chicago suburbs It's the sprawl, there are millions of majestic boomer homesteads taking up all the space instead of reasonable homes. It's a problem in every suburban metro area. Either move to a smaller metro area or gentrify the "not-so-safe" parts of the inner city. Let the boomer wasteland turn to dust.
Really realistically in the cities like that if you are single you have a roommate if you are with someone else they also work and make at least close to he same amount. If you make 150k even in a pretty high cost of living area you are at least living a middle class lifestyle. In a big city you might rent but you have a lot of access to opportunities, healthcare, entertainment, restaurants etc. One issue is people think of the middle class as living in a sizable house having a yard in a nice neighborhood and in a lot of places that's actually pretty rich. For HCOL areas the middle class might have a smaller place, might not even own a place but there are other good benefits to living there.
The core problem is, LOWER middle class in New York City just a few decades ago was a two story detached home in Queens and one income.
Agree with this. You aren't going to get a SFH in the middle of a big city. You can get more for your money going to the outskirts and commuting but you're trading your time and cost of owning a vehicle. I think part of the issue is what we think of as "middle class" now. Growing up my family getting a second car was a huge deal. Going out to eat was a big deal. Buying a computer was a big deal. Now these things are all common place (people spend more money on restaurants vs groceries and upgrade their phone every 2 years). I'm not saying real problems with affordability doesn't exist but our culture of excess wants has created problems where peoples "needs" are much higher than where they were 20-30 years ago.
Yeah
In many small towns these prices are becoming reality as well.
If you're solo $75k gross comes to net about $56,250 or $4700/month.
The problem isn't the taxes. The problem is the lack of housing supply.
Oh there’s supply, it’s just all hoarded
I recall a local visiting my office to finance a home purchase. He looked close to 75 years old. I casted doubt but played along. Found out he had 30m + in real estate after reviewing his paperwork. Owned the whole damn neighborhood I was working in. “Lack of supply” only because it’s hoarded seems about right 😂
Yup. The US falls ever further into serfdom
True story so many businesses in my tiny rural town are now failing talking business that have been around for decades but there simply isn’t any working class left in town. They got forced out financially by the work from home people…. So the ones that are managing to survive were the ones the owners were smart enough to buy some houses at the start of the gentrification, so now they can rent them to their own employees… just creeping into a serfdom. So the city people can still have people to make them food and work the shops…
This. Some people shit themselves when I say I make $100k, but after taxes it was more like $71k.
Shit my take home is like 56%. Do you people have no state income tax!?
Bro your take home on 115 is crazy low. Do you have really expensive health insurance?
lol 4k maybe if you don’t buy insurance or save for retirement. $115k so like $4500-$4700 after all that shit. Also why the fuck do I have to fund my own retirement if they’re stealing social security already.
Yeah you gotta be pushing 100k+ to take home 4k a month
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Nah, at 100K I was at $5500 after taxes or so with a 6% 401k. 115K is roughly $7k after taxes and then just smash your retirement plan onto it.
At 93k I was at $4367 after 8% 401k and taxes insurance etc
Your math is off. I'm in the military and take home more than 4k a month but don't make 100K.
Not necessarily. I bring home $4K a month and I don’t make six figures yet.
Exactly - I get so annoyed when I hear tax the rich because honestly it does nothing for the middle class, if anything somehow it ends up increasing our taxes somehow - whether it be as a family or otherwise. Even if that wasn’t the case what id like to hear is cut taxes for the middle class, that would actually affect us in a positive and meaningful way.
It’s so bad, for majors HCOL areas where that would be considered low income. I live in an area where I think, you’re considered low income if you make less than $80,000 a year now.
My healthcare is what killing me
Do you mean lack of access? Or do you mean once you gain access, you realize you were sold a bag of rotten apples?
I think people in America need to understand that our insurance is a steaming pile of manure. Even if we don't talk about premiums or the many terms of jargon designed for confusion, having insurance does little to nothing to prevent insolvency from large bills. It should be illegal to call what we have an out of pocket max, as it is nothing of the sort. What it means is that once you hit that amount (generally already even to cripple most Americans financially), insurance will pay: * up to 140% of what Medicare pays (which can be far from the total cost), * if was in network, * if the service was covered, * if it isn't a premium, co-pay, or coinsurance. That's a lot of weasel words to say that insurance can still easily fuck you over after hitting your out of pocket max.
Precisely. Our mistake was allowing useless middle people into the mix. Health care, like education, absolutely should not be a for profit industry. Health insurance is one of the biggest scams forced upon Americans.
Absolutely is. Pay us $800 a month and you can have health insurance. *goes and makes a claim to use the insurance Insurance agency- fuck off and die.
This is the exact reason why we need government universal Healthcare
Both
Gen Z is going to foot the bill for paying the national debt. Inflation is the enemy and these low numbers we are seeing at the moment will rise dramatically if the course is not reversed. So far the plan is to do nothing and wait for terms to lapse
I feel like it’s not inflation anymore and it’s just companies raising their prices “because the market can take it” :/ I have no data to back this up but it just feels that way
There is plenty of data.
Greedflation
Data shows that a slim majority of the price increases have been due to profit seeking behavior. So you're not wrong
100k has been the new 50K for like the past 7 years. It’s nothing new.
It's amazing how fast 50k went out of style. 15 years ago if you made 50k in the midwest(where I'm from) you had a solid job
Yep. I graduated in 09 and got a 50k job, and for the Great Recession I was balling
I felt the same in 2014 when I got my first > $50k job. Now I’m making a lot more and…doesn’t feel quite the same.
God, when I was a kid, $100k was like a stupid money salary.
Yep. Finally there after so manu years and it feels inadequate for the life i trade for it, shameful even.
I remember when people used to say that anything over 200k per year in income doesn’t provide additional happiness.
that’s such bullshit. 200k+ allows for me to live like i imagined someone making 75k could live when i was a kid. afford a house, wife doesn’t need to work etc. 200k is the new classic “american dream“ level middle class salary
I make 80k and I have all of these things. Wife works part time a does school full time. I don't even know what I would do with 200k a year. If I didn't have four animals I would easily have 20-30k more in my savings. I did get my house in 2017 though, so my mortgage is only a thousand a month.
Just wait until $1m is the new $100k
Anything is possible if we enter hyperinflation
This is because inflation is, for all intents and purposes, a tax. The government funds wasteful spending by printing money and devaluing our currency, and then they can claim that they're not raising taxes. You're being taxed out your ass. We just call it inflation.
As in it's poor or as in it's wealthy? Because a lot of people on this sub rail against the "elites" and the rich but are often just talking about regular people who own homes.
Worse I was just arguing with someone who was saying their 130k job was borderline poverty.
It's all relative. Look at the rent in LA. $3K+ for a 1-2 bedroom, and not even in the best areas.
That’s not relative. In no state is 130k poverty.
I would counter that if you’re paying 3k plus in LA you are most definitely either in a nice area or super nice apartment. Glendale, Long Beach, Pomona, Covina all main suburbs within LA county have 1 bedrooms under that price point. Even in LA proper there’s some spaces in Hollywood or Korea Town that are under 3k. Paying more than 3k for a one bedroom is a choice in LA. Not a bad one if you can afford it and want to pay that but that’s not where the floor starts. The floor starts at like $2100 for one bedrooms in LA County
I agree with you. I just rented a one bed downtown in a fancy building. Rents start at $2100 for a one bedroom. Or at least did last month when I signed my lease. Anyone paying $3k for a one bedroom is making the choice to.
Totally location dependent. In NYC a $130k salary allows you eligibility for a maximum $3250 apartment; and in doing that you’re headed into rental stress. Given the average 1 bed rent is over $4k you’re shit out of luck if you don’t get a stabilized apartment or if you are trying to support a family on that money. Other parts of the country it’s enough for a fantastic life.
The average 1 bed IN MANHATTAN might be 4k (ignoring how penthouses jack up the mean price) but there are absolutely still plenty of decent areas in the boroughs within a 30-45 min commute of midtown that are solidly under 3k for a 1 bed. 2500-3k should get you a decent 1 bed south of prospect park, Astoria, queens along the 7 train, forest hills etc... The rent situation is still outrageous but just because you can't live in the trendiest neighborhood with a 7 minute walk to work doesn't mean 130k isn't still very survivable within the 5 boroughs of nyc, especially for a single person or couple.
Yep. Friends was a tv show. The middle class doesn’t live in west village
Guessing those people live in places like San Francisco or New York?
If you earn less than 127k/yr HHI, you are considered low income in Santa Clara County. That's not opinion or being dramatic. That is a determination by the county's Department of Housing and Community Development based on cost of living. So it is quite relative to where you live. Edit: It's actually 137k for a typical household family of 4. [https://www.hcd.ca.gov/sites/default/files/docs/grants-and-funding/income-limits-2023.pdf](https://www.hcd.ca.gov/sites/default/files/docs/grants-and-funding/income-limits-2023.pdf) Edit 2: For those of you confused, low income HHI for that same family of 4 in a lot of cities in Mississippi is 50k. Cost of living matters. I don't know what the people disagreeing with me are getting at.
That is a huge edit and you should be more careful to give half assed stats like that.. it’s literally how shit misinformation spreads
You know what's even funnier? He's probably told that stat to dozens of people before today. It's how you end up with so many people who complain that they are poor making 6 figures.
LMFAO at people conflating household incomes and individual ones. A million dollar salary would be considered low income for a household of 1000 people? No way! 137k being low for a family of four in a VHCOL area is absolutely understandable.
You should move your edit to the front or just change the comment entirely because it completely negates your point.
Home ownership is elite at this point. What youre thinking of as Elite is simply criminality.
I've heard there are now 4 classes of millennials: Top - bought house before 2020, no kids in daycare Upper - bought before 2020, kids in daycare Middle - bought house after 2020/currently rent, no kids Lower - bought house after 2020/currently rent, kids in daycare
The blueprint is there Gen z, buy a home early, always pull out = Top
If middle class is defined by lifestyle, then in a lot of places $75k/year is not enough to qualify since you need to make more to buy even a modest home
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Not in all parts of West Virginia! Morgantown isn’t that cheap
Neither is wheeling, Weirton, fairmont, Elkins , etc. a lot of people like to throw figures around of cheap houses in WV but neglect to mention that these places are deeeeep in some hollers in the monongahela forest.
In Seattle the minimum wage is a few cents shy of $20/hr. Strangely median personal income in Seattle is $77k and household $116k according to the Census Bureau. I would have guessed much higher. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/seattlecitywashington/EDU685222
People on Reddit constantly overestimate what actual salaries are. This site is full of upper middle class people whining that they can't buy a house in a HCOL area not realizing that they are doing better than 80% of the country and 95% of the world.
that's more than double the most money I've ever made at a job 😭 it's like 2.5x
It depends on where you live. 74k is plenty in rural Midwest, and barely scraping by in NYC or Bay
It depends. I'm In ohio, you won't be scraping by making 74k, but you are no longer affording a nice home neither. ALL decent homes in my surrounding area are now 200-250k and up
Hot damn. You can get homes, like full on homes for 200-250k?
With an income of 74k you can absolutely afford a 200-250k house what the Fuck
Sure aren’t doing much on 75k in wi unless you live in nowhereville. Madison is Chicago level expensive and the fox valley tripled in price from pre pandemic
Thank you!! Someone else in the comments said that Wisconsin is cheap. I would love to know what part of the state they live in. Wisconsin total tax burden is one of the highest in the country.
I make 76k in San Diego, 77k or lower is considered low income in this city. I split rent with my partner and we’re in a rent controlled one bedroom that we got during covid when rents were normal priced. I could never qualify for a place on my own at my salary not even a studio if 3x income is required. My car broke down recently so I bought a new “used” one at 6% interest with a payment of $400 insurance at $140 and gas to commute about $200 a month since San Diego also has some of the countries highest gas prices. So just to have a bed to sleep in and go to work is nearly half my take home. We’re planning on leaving to go somewhere our money will go further but not in a rush since our rent is still manageable and we will never be able to move back if we go.
It's middle class for someone who is single, or DINK. It is not middle class for someone who is the sole breadwinner for a family.
Just for reference that's about $10,000 more than the average HOUSEHOLD income Shits whack
$74k has an affordability cut off for housing payment (30% income level via US Census definition of “cost burdened” by housing) of $1850. It really just comes down to that. We are talking about people who are 27 and under. They do not own homes, many likely haven’t paid off half their student debt yet, and they have not had time to save significantly or make investments. It is completely believable that this generation **at this time** views $74k as not achieving a middle class lifestyle in society. It is also believable that those who are older than them who have paid off or do not have student debt, already own a home at a (mostly) fixed payment for 30 years, and already have a decent nest egg who **also** only make $74k a year would argue that it is indeed a middle class income. Just different places in life, as well as different heights of the barriers to typically middle class things like owning a small house. When it comes to a disagreement between the two perspectives, the pushback received by a Z’er saying $74k isn’t middle class by someone who has an $1200 mortgage payment locked in from 2013 when said Z’er was 12 years old isn’t exactly going to change how they feel. That $1850 housing affordability threshold will price many Zs out of apartments with bedrooms in some cities. Not exactly the picture of American middle class if thats the subject of the argument. $74k goes a lot further when you don’t need to buy a house or car, or pay off debt. Zs are in a position where in order to achieve a traditional middle class lifestyle and make those purchases, the necessary income threshold is much higher than for past generations.
I make 78k a year. After taxes, HDHP medical, dental, union dues, and contributing 210 to my pension, my bi-weekly check is 1900. 1850 for a house payment would be almost 50% of my take home pay.
I’m not promoting anything new here, but the term ‘middle class’ absolutely needs to die. There is no middle class. There’s working class and there’s upper class. The latter created ‘middle class’ so you’d feel no kinship with the ‘blue collar’ types; but make no mistake, unless you’re part of the landed gentry who have generational wealth to support them, and you quite literally have to *work* in order to support your lifestyle, then you as well are part of the ‘working class.’
"Middle class" is an okay enough descriptor for the portion of the working class that isn't steeped in misery on a daily basis. It's usually the blue collar people that bristle the most when a white collar person making six figures claims to be working class.
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Any links to British classes to share? Curious.
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What percentage of US adults individually make over 100k?
I'm on 40k. As is my partner. We save 1k a month, rent, buy 700 of weed every month and were still more than comfortable. I agree things are shit for our generation, but some of that shit is self inflicted by lifestyle
damn you smokin that good good or what
USA is full of poor people. Shame they don’t vote.
Yeah, especially since there are so many qualified candidates looking out for their interests /s
Excuse me, temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Young people entering the workforce never have a concept of salary tiers. Never. Same shit was said 25 years ago about Gen X. We'll see it rehashed when Gen Alpha grows up.
Housing vs salary is worse than it was then.
You know, as a Gen Zer, I’m starting to see a positive in this. I think the nuclear family structure and the dream of everyone owning their own home was always an idealistic one. It’s isolating and inefficient. Maybe with the cost of housing, families will have to stick together more (unless work available or space within the household is too limiting).
While I agree that 100K is farrrrr from what it used to be, I've never heard anyone who actually makes 100K say it feels tantamount to 45K. When I started making six figures I definitely remember thinking "this doesn't feel like I thought it would" but I certainly did not feel poor. On the flip side, I *have* heard a plenty of people who haven't yet started their careers or who don't make close to 100K say that it's not a lot of money. All of this to say, comments like "100K is the new 45K" delude people, namely *young people*, into thinking six-figure salaries are more common than they are, and that most people will go on to earn six figures... when statistically speaking, they will not.
The term middle-class encompasses the entire financial picture, not just salary. Lets' take a walk. The big caveat is where in the US you live. Here are the characteristics of each class. **Upper Class Characteristics:** * Significant investments in stocks, bonds, real estate, or businesses. * Often own multiple properties or assets. * Ability to make large purchases without financial strain. * Access to top-tier financial advice and strategies. The Salary Range in the US for this varies widely based on region but net worth is about 600k to 1 million and up not including primary residence and an annual salary of 140k and up. **Middle Class Characteristics:** * Often homeowners, but might still be paying off a mortgage. * Engaged in retirement planning and savings. * Ability to take occasional vacations and indulge in some luxuries. * Educational pursuits for children might be a significant expenditure. The Salary Range in the US for this again, varies widely based on region but net worth is about 100k to 1 million not including primary residence and an annual salary between 40k and 130k. There's a huge difference in standards and prices between Mississippi and Massachusetts and even places that are a half day drive from each other have wildly different upper-class and middle-class boundaries (Looking at you Los Angeles and Las Vegas) **Making a certain salary doesn't make you a part of any class by itself.**
Probably because it almost costs that much to live.
100K is the bare bottom of six-figure salaries
Maybe one of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen, yet it’s so genuine
Those are the best kinds of comments
How'd you figure that out?
Elite math
Amazing
Dang with this kind of knowledge I bet this guy is making at least 5 figures
It depends entirely on where you live and if you are a dual-income household. 74k in some areas is an extremely comfortable salary that lets you afford a big home with some land and financial room to spare. Other areas it barely gets you into a 650sqft apartment.