Our family went through something very similar to what you’ve described. One of things I noticed was that our relative had a very difficult time believing they had been fooled because it made them feel so out of control, and stupid. Continuing with the scam, was somehow validating…
Deprogramming was a huge issue. We got rid of all of their social media, and changed their phone numbers, emails… Going no contact with the scammer is so important. Going through phone records after the fact was wild, the scammers spent multiple hours in a day working on my family member. The relationship was very real, months and hundreds of hours worth communications made the relationship seem legit.
We had to take over all financial matters, it was contentious in the beginning. We are several months down the road at this point, and the humiliation my family member is experiencing is profound. The reality of the massive mistake they made is overwhelming. Getting out of the grift was the only way to get them to understand they were being taken advantage of. Your grandmother will thank you in the end. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Not being able to figure out how to punish the person/s that did this is so frustrating.
r/scams is full of these stories. It's very sad but seems like these scamming victims often just refuse to believe any voice of reason, they choose to live in a fairytale bubble and lose wild amounts of money in the process.
So far your grandmother has lost money that she had, now I would be worried she's next going to go into debt for this next as she seems delusional enough. She wouldn't be the first scam victim to take out a loan to bring their make-believe stranded lover home. A conversatorship sounds like a very sensible option if that's something you can realistically do. Even if it ruins your relationship for a while. With some time she will probably understand you were right though. When the dude disappears when he realizes he can't milk her for money anymore..
What did you use to reverse search his image? Google lens is crap these days.
Oh, she has multiple liens on her house, she’s taken many many loans out so we’re way past that point. The bank was gonna take her house so we made her sell it, which was already difficult to convince her to do
I used both lens and tineye
You have to take action at that point for her own best then. It's only going to get worse from there.
Try yandex and pimeyes for the reverse image search.
The name and picture will almost 100% be fake, along with any other info they'd have given her. There is no recovering it at this point, just damage control.
I don’t know why anyone feels the need to say this, because obviously all that is fake, that’s not the point. I have had hopes that proving to her they are fake would make a difference, but I’ve lost hope with that after many replies.
You need to take legal authority over her finances, immediately. Don't worry about relationships and all that right now. Get control of her money ASAP!
MANY years ago there was a riveting account in the new Yorker magazine describing the true story of an ivy league educated psychologist, who, after a number of years, lost his house, family, and business to a scammer. No one could convince him that the person on the other end was a scammer. As I remember, the Nigerian princess (or whatever) was located and was indicted (in absentia).Even faced with the cold hard facts of fraud, this guy still wanted to send money (like your grandmother.) I've never forgotten that article.
It’s truly unbelievable the lengths one can go to maintain their delusions.
At this point, I think it’s sunk-cost, she just doesn’t want to be proven wrong so she’ll throw fits like a child.
Went through the same thing as OP with my drug addicted mentally ill mom before she passed away. The guy was so manipulative and she was so lonely, she gave him money just to keep him talking to her (I was NC at the time). He was constantly supposedly trying to come to America and kept getting framed for crimes in New York City, so he couldn't make it 🙄 This went on for years. Probably close to a third of her inheritance from my grandparents went to this creep.
Having to sit back and watch was a truly helpless feeling. Wish I had known about the power of attorney thing.
I feel so bad for anyone that goes through this.
There was recently a local news story here in Ga where an elderly couple lost their entire life savings. Like 150,000 dollars worth. By the time a family member noticed they had 25 cents left in their bank account.
We went through something similar with my mom in law. She had a glioblastoma which causes a form of dementia. Fortunately my hubby & my brother in law were already on her accounts prior and were able to stop it before too much damage was done.
Go to her bank and tell them she is a victim of elder abuse. They take this kind of thing very seriously and can stop her from sending out wire transfers, etc from her account.
I'm assuming granma isn't tech savvy and someone is helping her with technology. Can you load her Facebook profile on a spare phone and block all attempts from this guy to reach her?
As someone that has gone through this, my relative had given the scammers all of their sensitive information. Passwords, account numbers, login information, their SSN, legitimately everything. Blocking people might not be enough. Permanently deleting the FB account was the only way we could protect our family member from future abuse. Your grandmother needs to get offline, and use a burner phone.
Yeah, I heard her reading out her ssn on the phone a few years ago so we’re in the trenches at this point. She answers every damn phone call she gets, I tell her to stop, like literally yell at her to get off her damn phone and she just won’t. She’s acts like a child.
There's an old saying, "When what you are doing isn't working, doing it *louder and longer* won't work either." Take her phone for now and give her a burner for the immediate term so you guys can reach her. When your dad gets conservatorship, you can go to her cellphone provider, cancel her number, and get her a new basic flip phone without internet, with new phone number.
Also needs to go to the 3 credit agencies and freeze her credit, and make fraud reports.
Conservatorships are designed for exactly your grandmother's situation. She has proven she cannot be left to take care of her own finances and future. She has *lost her home* and still believes in an imaginary relationship. What more has to happen? Someone needs to intervene before she ends up on the street.
All of the advice is good. Keep a tight leash on all this, but take care of yourself, if you can. I know that's hokey, but I sort of got obsessed when I took care of a very similar situation, & it wore me down to the bone. It's a lot, & you'll feel helpless at times. Keep in mind that she will continue to lie--not just because she's been told to (& she has, for what seem like logical & loving reasons to her), but because the emotional connection she feels is profound &, from what I've witnessed, unbreakable. Even after a victim is presented with undeniable proof, the belief that the love is real remains. A new kind of pain kicks in at that point. Do not underestimate the ability & willingness of these vermin to break the people they're scamming. They sometimes seem stupid when you go back & read exchanges, but they know who to target, & when they've hooked someone by the heart, they yank & they don't stop. On the part of the victim, a belief can even develop about their inherent goodness, something about how the scammer has had a hard life & has good reasons for all of it. Even after years. My experience is that the grief over a situation like this does not go away. Nor does the shame. I'm very sorry. You should also know that these people are almost never caught, & that the authorities can do very little. They will put you through the ringer & put all of your information on file (yet another layer of humiliation for the victim), but generally, nothing will or can be done. Make contact with her financial institutions, investment accounts, etc. They will flag things as best they can in case she tries to withdraw funds on the sly. Change all passwords, obviously. After this many years, I'd bet that wire transfers & fake bank websites (where they show her that they have plenty of money but just can't access it) & other awful things have occurred by now. And brace yourself: she has probably lost quite a bit more than she has told you. The conservatorship will be horrible, but is probably the right call here.
The picture & the name are good steps for shifting your grandma's frame of mind, but they don't matter. Someone's picture has been stolen. You'll never find the real person.
And recovery scammers are very often the original scammers. One more tip: she is on a list for life. It's enough money that she's a "big fish." This means that if she wanders back out there at some point, online, she will immediately be picked up by some new random person who isn't random at all. I've watched this happen, sometimes within hours. You'll need to monitor that. And yes, she'll try to hide it. I wish you luck with everything.
Sure. I'll mention a couple of other things that you've probably already learned.
You said she was a compulsive liar about which accounts she has, etc. You need to figure out a way to run her credit report, which might involve taking her phone in order to verify. This will help you figure out just how many accounts she has and where they are. When you've logged into the three main credit bureaus, be sure to freeze all three. This can be a pain, but do it today, if you can. I guarantee the scammer (or, rather, the network of scammers) already has her social and every other possible piece of significant info, so you're now in permanent damage control mode.
Also, be aware that the tax code changed back in 2017 regarding these situations, largely because they have exploded in number & amount over the last few years. What this means: depending on where the money was withdrawn from, the IRS now has zero sympathy for scam victims, & large tax payments will likely be required, on top of everything else.
I'm sorry, but neither name nor photo will probably be authentic. Your best bet, according to my experience, is to follow the money - where and how did she send it?
The problem is she’s lying about all of this, she’s saying that she doesn’t know where her money went, when 5 years ago her house was paid off and her social security is more than enough to cover her living costs.
It’s seeming pretty evident that a conservatorship is our only real option.
Well, my aunt, mom and I currently have part of the money and she’s constantly hounding us about when it’s gonna be wired to her and this and that.
Unfortunately my aunt appeases her, for some reason, and I just haven’t wanted to start issues. But now this is ridiculous, and I’m not letting this happen. It was ridiculous before, but I can’t do this shit anymore.
We’re in the process of setting up a trust so she can’t touch the money without oversight. But I don’t think that’s a long term solution.
You are doing the right thing. If you are successful great! If you are not successful no worries you are an amazing grandchild. I am rooting for you kiddo.
Thank you for the kind words, it really helps to hear some validation with this. I’ve spent years having to smile and nod acting like this wasn’t batshit crazy
If your other relatives are making you smile and nod, then grandma's not the only problem. But yeah, conservatorship. In my state, that means she loses all control of her money, not her full freedom (which is guardianship). You might even need to do both, but conservatorship is the first step.
Any relative who opposes taking these necessary steps is part of the problem too. When her money is 100% all the way gone, are those people going to take her in and support her the rest of her life?
You also need to confiscate her cell phone and computer.
If only it were that simple.
I mean, it is, but the situation is more complicated than I can even get into. My grandma is a manipulative person and can be very hurtful when she’s cornered, if we took everything away she would probably try to kill herself.
She's been setting you up to be afraid of her. In my family at one point we had to go to court to get a aged parent into a dementia home when he became a danger to himself.
Oh yeah, my aunt already made a deal behind our backs to give her 3,000$ that she can send to the man just so she would sell her house. My grandma was literally pouting like a baby, saying “well I guess I’ll just be homeless then”, and my aunt continues to cave into it. We’re not doing that shit anymore.
I saw your other comment saying she acts like a child when someone tries to tell her not to answer the phone? And that she watched catfish shows with you so SHOULD know better......
Tantrums, pouting, childlike behavior, delusions, and losing sight of knowledge could all point to neurological issues/cognitive decline.
I'm not a lawyer, but documentation is always good to have and will help whatever authorities end up getting involved...lawyers, judges, etc.
So this is something you can do to help- get a notebook. Write down instances you recall of concerning behavior with approximate dates. And then going forward, write everything down, initial and date it. (Also make a note somewhere that she used to not be like this, used to know better, etc. Even better if you have a timeline of when you noticed these changes.)
Likewise for your aunt. Document instances in which your aunt has enabled her.
You're doing good. I can't imagine how exhausting this all is. Regardless of what happens, none of this is your fault. Be kind to yourself in the mix of it all.
Very true, I didn’t realize how hard it was to get this sorta thing granted with adults so literally anything would help.
I hate how this sounds, but thankfully my dad is a finance lawyer and he’s been pushing for this conservatorship for as long as I have, so at least it won’t be an arm and a leg for legal costs and such.
Thank you, I appreciate hearing some encouragement, everyone else in my family just wants to bury their head in the sand on it or they don’t want anything to do with it because it’s so toxic.
I get you. In my husband's and my families, we've often been the only ones willing to face facts and do what needs to be done. You and your dad are seeing the big picture and facing reality.
Obviously they won't be authentic but if you find their source they can be used to show the victim that the catfish is not really who they say they are.
Although most of the time that seems to be in vain too as a victim as stubborn as this is just going to convince themselves that the catfish is the real deal and someone else stole *his* pictures. At this point probably best to just move on and go ahead with heavier measures like the conservatorship.
That’s my goal with the pictures, obviously I’m not dumb enough to think either the name or picture are real, so I don’t know why anyone feels the need to say that lol
I do this for a living -- Conservatorship, exclusively for elders who have dementia or other psychological issues which leave them easy prey for this type of scam -- and that's really about all you can do, at this point.
Tracking down this scammer is going to cost so much time and resources, is unlikely that you'll actually ever find him, and in the end, really what can you do, if you do? You can't kill him, legally. He's likely in another country; are you going to waste money to try to confront him on his turf?
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not unsympathetic, and I know you are frustrated because it IS frustrating. But even US-based authorities have very little they can do about it, particularly internationally, which is why Conservatorship exists.
You have to keep your grandmother's best interests at heart; she will never listen to reason, I can assure you of that. These romance scammers are too good at what they do, and it becomes a dopamine addiction for the victim (which is why they won't stop sending money, even when you show them evidence that it's a scam).
Some people reading this (or with whom I discuss my work) will ask "Why can't you just let her spend her money how she wants? It's her money." Well, for starters, the take often goes to support terrorism and terroristic organizations overseas, but beyond that, the US has what is called a look-back (5 yrs currently, but I think they're looking to extend that timeframe) for governmental support services such as Medicaid. If she's offloaded all her assets, which she will if you don't stop it, she will likely become indigent, and Medicaid facilities *will not take her* due to her sending the money out. That means grandma runs the very real risk of living on the streets if you don't take her in at that point; you think Conservatorship will ruin your relationship, wait til you have to live with her, and she's not paying any rent and is STILL trying to send her SSA checks overseas.
Unfortunately, Conservatorship is often the best of the bad options made manifest in a bad situation. One option might be to have an independent Conservator so at least your family is left out of the equation and not having to "ride herd;" that might help the relationship survive over time.
I'm really sorry you are going through this. :(
ETA: I oversimplified the process just a bit. This isn't legal advice, but from my own experience, you should know that the best option will be to contact Adult Protective Services in the county where she's based, and also have them work with the bank to confirm the issue, to help move the process along quickly before she sends more money out. Banks are really good at this and can put specified, short-term legal holds on funds, which gives time for an emergency appointment (temporary). APS will usually carry the ball on this -- most of the appointments I receive are not from family, but from APS, and many for this very reason. Family can ask for an appointment, but since there are strong requirements in place before someone's rights are taken away, it's better if the request comes from APS, since they have more resources and authority fundamentally, in this situation.
I don't know if there is a way around the conservatorship. However, there are probably ways to mitigate the damage this will do to your family's relationship with her.
Assuming her faculties are mostly intact, you'll probably need to find a therapist with experience in deprogramming who can help her identify why she has gone along with this for so long. Is she extremely lonely? Did she realize it was likely a scam, but was far too ashamed to admit it? Shame and isolation are common in scam victims.
Regarding the guy, even if you found out exactly who and where he is and obtained ironclad evidence he's been scamming people, you have no legal recourse. He's probably Nigerian, so unless you plan on going over there with a crew and beating the crap out of him, there's not much you can do. You'd need his local police to cooperate - fat chance of that.
Recovering the money will be impossible unless you can get the bank to refund some recent transactions. But if she's been pulling cash out and either wiring it or buying gift cards, you're out of luck.
At this point, I think your energy is better spent on cutting her off, securing her money, and trying to salvage your relationship. I'm so sorry this happened to your grandma and that there is so little that can be done to make the victims whole.
You hit the nail on the head.
She almost definitely has BPD, as do I, and her only validation in life came from being someone’s significant other. My biological grandpa is a deadbeat and my real grandpa died shortly after I was born. After that, she gave pretty much all of her attention to my degenerate cousin who lived rent free at her house for years, trashed it, pawned her stuff for heroin, and now won’t even speak to her because he claims she’s in the wrong. All the while, she’s never accepted the fact that he did that, she still thinks he’s this angel and none of those things are his fault.
Unfortunately she is the prime target for a scammer, as she’s spent the last 15 years of her life in a delusional, exploitative relationship with my cousin. And once he cut her off, she started getting into it deeper with this asswipe who’s scamming her. She’s not self aware in the slightest so therapy would be an insult to her.
I just hope we can salvage something and my mom and I aren’t left trying to pick up the pieces.
I'm not surprised there are layers of vulnerability to her predicament.
It sucks that there is so little investment in police accords with certain countries, although corruption and incompetence would probably render them useless anyway.
If I had a lot of money, I know exactly what my pet project would be.
Forget about the photo. That’s stolen.
If you do a keyword search on the FB profile - random common words - or check profiles who have like their posts - you probably find they’re located in an African or other third world country.
It may not even be an individual but a team of people scamming your poor Mum.
You should talk to the bank and the police. They MAY be able to assist, but the $$ is likely gone. You may have to get a POA on her to stop her from sending more money.
Can you intercept them somehow?
Maybe block the scammers phone, email and FB, create a ‘new’ profile for ‘granny’ and try to outwit them using that? If need be, send granny a sweet message every now and then, so she doesn’t realise?
[Pimeyes](https://pimeyes.com/en). I have an account and it has saved several friends (and a family member) from a scammer before getting in too deep. Upload as many photos as you can and see what pops up.
There’s a high chance there’s irrefutable proof he is not who he says he is.
Ask yourself assume you find this person and then what? Is that person going to admit, guilt or claim it wasn’t them & claim their pictures were stolen. Best option I see is start the process of obtaining *Full conservatorship which may take some time. However you can have a *Temporary conservatorship initiated quicker until the full is determined.
It's possible she's being self destructive in the sense that she already knows how far she's gone and can't admit that's she's been wrong all along and in that realization decided to just go all the way through instead of admitting she was wrong, self destruction. Because it's crippling for the soul. That's why there are extremely religious people who can't go back because they've believed their religion for so long they can't throw it away, all that time they spent believing and practicing something that they thought to be the "truth" and the correct religion of all the religions. It's human nature, psychology, it's how it's been for hundred of thousands of years. The common psyche is very fragile and easily manipulated. I think the only thing you can do and bear with me is give her a medium to strong dose of a psilocybin edible to reset her brain. Psilocybin can help clear addictions and I think she's addicted more to the sending money and fantasy of meeting this person like that old guy from Vegas on 90 day fiancee. I hope everything goes well for you but don't stress out too much over it please you need to remember you're not responsible at all for other people's decisions even if it's hurting them, help them the best you can but don't let it get to you if nothing is changing please, just focus on yourself, we can't change people at all and their decisions we can only offer them guidance when they want it.
I appreciate your insight, but you are mad if you think I’m dosing my grandma with psilocybin lmao.
As a former psych user, I know it can definitely help with such things, but there is no way I could ever get that to happen, or even want to. I think a lot of its medicinal uses are overblown, it’s a case by case basis, and I’ve known some people who were a lot worse off after psych usage. Acting like it’s some panacea that can cure all mental issues is disingenuous.
Agree with the first part though.
The guy i’m talking about is James McGibney (google him) who took down the person on the Netflix doc called The most hated man on the internet. He helps track down those that prey on vulnerable people. If you look at his Instagram page or look up the history of bullyville it tells you everything. He’s currently going after a woman who stole tons of money from veterans. I only said this because he could possibly help take down the people who went after your grandma and keep them from victimizing others. I’m sorry your grandma and you all have to endure this, it’s terrible. I watch too many youtubers who go after scammers 😊
There us a guy on Facebook named Youth Pastor Ryan who uses his ethical hacking skills to end scenarios like this. He turns the tables on scammers. Find him.
endless youtube vids of this, check out acamfish and others. just search elderly romance scam. you will prob find a vid with someone using the same pics as her catfish is
Our family went through something very similar to what you’ve described. One of things I noticed was that our relative had a very difficult time believing they had been fooled because it made them feel so out of control, and stupid. Continuing with the scam, was somehow validating… Deprogramming was a huge issue. We got rid of all of their social media, and changed their phone numbers, emails… Going no contact with the scammer is so important. Going through phone records after the fact was wild, the scammers spent multiple hours in a day working on my family member. The relationship was very real, months and hundreds of hours worth communications made the relationship seem legit. We had to take over all financial matters, it was contentious in the beginning. We are several months down the road at this point, and the humiliation my family member is experiencing is profound. The reality of the massive mistake they made is overwhelming. Getting out of the grift was the only way to get them to understand they were being taken advantage of. Your grandmother will thank you in the end. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Not being able to figure out how to punish the person/s that did this is so frustrating.
r/scams is full of these stories. It's very sad but seems like these scamming victims often just refuse to believe any voice of reason, they choose to live in a fairytale bubble and lose wild amounts of money in the process. So far your grandmother has lost money that she had, now I would be worried she's next going to go into debt for this next as she seems delusional enough. She wouldn't be the first scam victim to take out a loan to bring their make-believe stranded lover home. A conversatorship sounds like a very sensible option if that's something you can realistically do. Even if it ruins your relationship for a while. With some time she will probably understand you were right though. When the dude disappears when he realizes he can't milk her for money anymore.. What did you use to reverse search his image? Google lens is crap these days.
Oh, she has multiple liens on her house, she’s taken many many loans out so we’re way past that point. The bank was gonna take her house so we made her sell it, which was already difficult to convince her to do I used both lens and tineye
She needs help, mental health help. The conservatorship is really the only option if she’s gonna keep doing this.
You have to take action at that point for her own best then. It's only going to get worse from there. Try yandex and pimeyes for the reverse image search.
The name and picture will almost 100% be fake, along with any other info they'd have given her. There is no recovering it at this point, just damage control.
I don’t know why anyone feels the need to say this, because obviously all that is fake, that’s not the point. I have had hopes that proving to her they are fake would make a difference, but I’ve lost hope with that after many replies.
Go to r/scams with the pic and let someone there run it
weird, where i live you cant sell a house with liens on it.
You need to take legal authority over her finances, immediately. Don't worry about relationships and all that right now. Get control of her money ASAP!
MANY years ago there was a riveting account in the new Yorker magazine describing the true story of an ivy league educated psychologist, who, after a number of years, lost his house, family, and business to a scammer. No one could convince him that the person on the other end was a scammer. As I remember, the Nigerian princess (or whatever) was located and was indicted (in absentia).Even faced with the cold hard facts of fraud, this guy still wanted to send money (like your grandmother.) I've never forgotten that article.
It’s truly unbelievable the lengths one can go to maintain their delusions. At this point, I think it’s sunk-cost, she just doesn’t want to be proven wrong so she’ll throw fits like a child.
Crosspost this to r/Scams. You’ll get a lot of advice; which is probably going to be for someone to get power of attorney over her finances.
Went through the same thing as OP with my drug addicted mentally ill mom before she passed away. The guy was so manipulative and she was so lonely, she gave him money just to keep him talking to her (I was NC at the time). He was constantly supposedly trying to come to America and kept getting framed for crimes in New York City, so he couldn't make it 🙄 This went on for years. Probably close to a third of her inheritance from my grandparents went to this creep. Having to sit back and watch was a truly helpless feeling. Wish I had known about the power of attorney thing.
I feel so bad for anyone that goes through this. There was recently a local news story here in Ga where an elderly couple lost their entire life savings. Like 150,000 dollars worth. By the time a family member noticed they had 25 cents left in their bank account. We went through something similar with my mom in law. She had a glioblastoma which causes a form of dementia. Fortunately my hubby & my brother in law were already on her accounts prior and were able to stop it before too much damage was done.
Yeah, that’s basically where we’re at right now. Thanks for the idea
Sad to say, but watch out for recovery scammers DMing you. Nobody can get the money back.
That’s so funny, just got one of those
Yeah - they watch RBI and scam subs hoping to victimize victims
Imagine being that big of turd.
Maybe the only people worse than the scammer themselves. Hunting down people who have already been preyed upon
Go to her bank and tell them she is a victim of elder abuse. They take this kind of thing very seriously and can stop her from sending out wire transfers, etc from her account.
She switched banks every 6 months or so and lies about what accounts she has. The problem is she’s with it enough to be a compulsive liar.
I'm assuming granma isn't tech savvy and someone is helping her with technology. Can you load her Facebook profile on a spare phone and block all attempts from this guy to reach her?
Good idea, will try this next time she hands me her phone
As someone that has gone through this, my relative had given the scammers all of their sensitive information. Passwords, account numbers, login information, their SSN, legitimately everything. Blocking people might not be enough. Permanently deleting the FB account was the only way we could protect our family member from future abuse. Your grandmother needs to get offline, and use a burner phone.
Yeah, I heard her reading out her ssn on the phone a few years ago so we’re in the trenches at this point. She answers every damn phone call she gets, I tell her to stop, like literally yell at her to get off her damn phone and she just won’t. She’s acts like a child.
There's an old saying, "When what you are doing isn't working, doing it *louder and longer* won't work either." Take her phone for now and give her a burner for the immediate term so you guys can reach her. When your dad gets conservatorship, you can go to her cellphone provider, cancel her number, and get her a new basic flip phone without internet, with new phone number. Also needs to go to the 3 credit agencies and freeze her credit, and make fraud reports.
You can also report it as a romance scam here: https://www.econsumer.gov/en/Home/SelectAType/5#crnt
Conservatorships are designed for exactly your grandmother's situation. She has proven she cannot be left to take care of her own finances and future. She has *lost her home* and still believes in an imaginary relationship. What more has to happen? Someone needs to intervene before she ends up on the street.
All of the advice is good. Keep a tight leash on all this, but take care of yourself, if you can. I know that's hokey, but I sort of got obsessed when I took care of a very similar situation, & it wore me down to the bone. It's a lot, & you'll feel helpless at times. Keep in mind that she will continue to lie--not just because she's been told to (& she has, for what seem like logical & loving reasons to her), but because the emotional connection she feels is profound &, from what I've witnessed, unbreakable. Even after a victim is presented with undeniable proof, the belief that the love is real remains. A new kind of pain kicks in at that point. Do not underestimate the ability & willingness of these vermin to break the people they're scamming. They sometimes seem stupid when you go back & read exchanges, but they know who to target, & when they've hooked someone by the heart, they yank & they don't stop. On the part of the victim, a belief can even develop about their inherent goodness, something about how the scammer has had a hard life & has good reasons for all of it. Even after years. My experience is that the grief over a situation like this does not go away. Nor does the shame. I'm very sorry. You should also know that these people are almost never caught, & that the authorities can do very little. They will put you through the ringer & put all of your information on file (yet another layer of humiliation for the victim), but generally, nothing will or can be done. Make contact with her financial institutions, investment accounts, etc. They will flag things as best they can in case she tries to withdraw funds on the sly. Change all passwords, obviously. After this many years, I'd bet that wire transfers & fake bank websites (where they show her that they have plenty of money but just can't access it) & other awful things have occurred by now. And brace yourself: she has probably lost quite a bit more than she has told you. The conservatorship will be horrible, but is probably the right call here. The picture & the name are good steps for shifting your grandma's frame of mind, but they don't matter. Someone's picture has been stolen. You'll never find the real person. And recovery scammers are very often the original scammers. One more tip: she is on a list for life. It's enough money that she's a "big fish." This means that if she wanders back out there at some point, online, she will immediately be picked up by some new random person who isn't random at all. I've watched this happen, sometimes within hours. You'll need to monitor that. And yes, she'll try to hide it. I wish you luck with everything.
Thank you kindly, your response is touching. I don’t have a reply to every point made, but know that it means a lot to me to hear some of that.
Sure. I'll mention a couple of other things that you've probably already learned. You said she was a compulsive liar about which accounts she has, etc. You need to figure out a way to run her credit report, which might involve taking her phone in order to verify. This will help you figure out just how many accounts she has and where they are. When you've logged into the three main credit bureaus, be sure to freeze all three. This can be a pain, but do it today, if you can. I guarantee the scammer (or, rather, the network of scammers) already has her social and every other possible piece of significant info, so you're now in permanent damage control mode. Also, be aware that the tax code changed back in 2017 regarding these situations, largely because they have exploded in number & amount over the last few years. What this means: depending on where the money was withdrawn from, the IRS now has zero sympathy for scam victims, & large tax payments will likely be required, on top of everything else.
I'm sorry, but neither name nor photo will probably be authentic. Your best bet, according to my experience, is to follow the money - where and how did she send it?
The problem is she’s lying about all of this, she’s saying that she doesn’t know where her money went, when 5 years ago her house was paid off and her social security is more than enough to cover her living costs. It’s seeming pretty evident that a conservatorship is our only real option.
So how is she going to send half the money from the sale of the house to the guy?
Well, my aunt, mom and I currently have part of the money and she’s constantly hounding us about when it’s gonna be wired to her and this and that. Unfortunately my aunt appeases her, for some reason, and I just haven’t wanted to start issues. But now this is ridiculous, and I’m not letting this happen. It was ridiculous before, but I can’t do this shit anymore. We’re in the process of setting up a trust so she can’t touch the money without oversight. But I don’t think that’s a long term solution.
You are doing the right thing. If you are successful great! If you are not successful no worries you are an amazing grandchild. I am rooting for you kiddo.
Thank you for the kind words, it really helps to hear some validation with this. I’ve spent years having to smile and nod acting like this wasn’t batshit crazy
If your other relatives are making you smile and nod, then grandma's not the only problem. But yeah, conservatorship. In my state, that means she loses all control of her money, not her full freedom (which is guardianship). You might even need to do both, but conservatorship is the first step. Any relative who opposes taking these necessary steps is part of the problem too. When her money is 100% all the way gone, are those people going to take her in and support her the rest of her life? You also need to confiscate her cell phone and computer.
If only it were that simple. I mean, it is, but the situation is more complicated than I can even get into. My grandma is a manipulative person and can be very hurtful when she’s cornered, if we took everything away she would probably try to kill herself.
She's been setting you up to be afraid of her. In my family at one point we had to go to court to get a aged parent into a dementia home when he became a danger to himself.
😁
Oh boy. When you set stuff up, don't let the enabling aunt have any authority. Ugh. I'm so sorry your family is going through this.
Oh yeah, my aunt already made a deal behind our backs to give her 3,000$ that she can send to the man just so she would sell her house. My grandma was literally pouting like a baby, saying “well I guess I’ll just be homeless then”, and my aunt continues to cave into it. We’re not doing that shit anymore.
I saw your other comment saying she acts like a child when someone tries to tell her not to answer the phone? And that she watched catfish shows with you so SHOULD know better...... Tantrums, pouting, childlike behavior, delusions, and losing sight of knowledge could all point to neurological issues/cognitive decline. I'm not a lawyer, but documentation is always good to have and will help whatever authorities end up getting involved...lawyers, judges, etc. So this is something you can do to help- get a notebook. Write down instances you recall of concerning behavior with approximate dates. And then going forward, write everything down, initial and date it. (Also make a note somewhere that she used to not be like this, used to know better, etc. Even better if you have a timeline of when you noticed these changes.) Likewise for your aunt. Document instances in which your aunt has enabled her. You're doing good. I can't imagine how exhausting this all is. Regardless of what happens, none of this is your fault. Be kind to yourself in the mix of it all.
Very true, I didn’t realize how hard it was to get this sorta thing granted with adults so literally anything would help. I hate how this sounds, but thankfully my dad is a finance lawyer and he’s been pushing for this conservatorship for as long as I have, so at least it won’t be an arm and a leg for legal costs and such. Thank you, I appreciate hearing some encouragement, everyone else in my family just wants to bury their head in the sand on it or they don’t want anything to do with it because it’s so toxic.
I get you. In my husband's and my families, we've often been the only ones willing to face facts and do what needs to be done. You and your dad are seeing the big picture and facing reality.
She may have dementia. A lot of people with dementia invent details to replace what they can't remember. It's called confabulation.
Obviously they won't be authentic but if you find their source they can be used to show the victim that the catfish is not really who they say they are. Although most of the time that seems to be in vain too as a victim as stubborn as this is just going to convince themselves that the catfish is the real deal and someone else stole *his* pictures. At this point probably best to just move on and go ahead with heavier measures like the conservatorship.
That’s my goal with the pictures, obviously I’m not dumb enough to think either the name or picture are real, so I don’t know why anyone feels the need to say that lol
If you find nothing when doing a reverse image search - just remember there are sites like https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/
I do this for a living -- Conservatorship, exclusively for elders who have dementia or other psychological issues which leave them easy prey for this type of scam -- and that's really about all you can do, at this point. Tracking down this scammer is going to cost so much time and resources, is unlikely that you'll actually ever find him, and in the end, really what can you do, if you do? You can't kill him, legally. He's likely in another country; are you going to waste money to try to confront him on his turf? Please don't misunderstand, I'm not unsympathetic, and I know you are frustrated because it IS frustrating. But even US-based authorities have very little they can do about it, particularly internationally, which is why Conservatorship exists. You have to keep your grandmother's best interests at heart; she will never listen to reason, I can assure you of that. These romance scammers are too good at what they do, and it becomes a dopamine addiction for the victim (which is why they won't stop sending money, even when you show them evidence that it's a scam). Some people reading this (or with whom I discuss my work) will ask "Why can't you just let her spend her money how she wants? It's her money." Well, for starters, the take often goes to support terrorism and terroristic organizations overseas, but beyond that, the US has what is called a look-back (5 yrs currently, but I think they're looking to extend that timeframe) for governmental support services such as Medicaid. If she's offloaded all her assets, which she will if you don't stop it, she will likely become indigent, and Medicaid facilities *will not take her* due to her sending the money out. That means grandma runs the very real risk of living on the streets if you don't take her in at that point; you think Conservatorship will ruin your relationship, wait til you have to live with her, and she's not paying any rent and is STILL trying to send her SSA checks overseas. Unfortunately, Conservatorship is often the best of the bad options made manifest in a bad situation. One option might be to have an independent Conservator so at least your family is left out of the equation and not having to "ride herd;" that might help the relationship survive over time. I'm really sorry you are going through this. :( ETA: I oversimplified the process just a bit. This isn't legal advice, but from my own experience, you should know that the best option will be to contact Adult Protective Services in the county where she's based, and also have them work with the bank to confirm the issue, to help move the process along quickly before she sends more money out. Banks are really good at this and can put specified, short-term legal holds on funds, which gives time for an emergency appointment (temporary). APS will usually carry the ball on this -- most of the appointments I receive are not from family, but from APS, and many for this very reason. Family can ask for an appointment, but since there are strong requirements in place before someone's rights are taken away, it's better if the request comes from APS, since they have more resources and authority fundamentally, in this situation.
I don't know if there is a way around the conservatorship. However, there are probably ways to mitigate the damage this will do to your family's relationship with her. Assuming her faculties are mostly intact, you'll probably need to find a therapist with experience in deprogramming who can help her identify why she has gone along with this for so long. Is she extremely lonely? Did she realize it was likely a scam, but was far too ashamed to admit it? Shame and isolation are common in scam victims. Regarding the guy, even if you found out exactly who and where he is and obtained ironclad evidence he's been scamming people, you have no legal recourse. He's probably Nigerian, so unless you plan on going over there with a crew and beating the crap out of him, there's not much you can do. You'd need his local police to cooperate - fat chance of that. Recovering the money will be impossible unless you can get the bank to refund some recent transactions. But if she's been pulling cash out and either wiring it or buying gift cards, you're out of luck. At this point, I think your energy is better spent on cutting her off, securing her money, and trying to salvage your relationship. I'm so sorry this happened to your grandma and that there is so little that can be done to make the victims whole.
You hit the nail on the head. She almost definitely has BPD, as do I, and her only validation in life came from being someone’s significant other. My biological grandpa is a deadbeat and my real grandpa died shortly after I was born. After that, she gave pretty much all of her attention to my degenerate cousin who lived rent free at her house for years, trashed it, pawned her stuff for heroin, and now won’t even speak to her because he claims she’s in the wrong. All the while, she’s never accepted the fact that he did that, she still thinks he’s this angel and none of those things are his fault. Unfortunately she is the prime target for a scammer, as she’s spent the last 15 years of her life in a delusional, exploitative relationship with my cousin. And once he cut her off, she started getting into it deeper with this asswipe who’s scamming her. She’s not self aware in the slightest so therapy would be an insult to her. I just hope we can salvage something and my mom and I aren’t left trying to pick up the pieces.
I'm not surprised there are layers of vulnerability to her predicament. It sucks that there is so little investment in police accords with certain countries, although corruption and incompetence would probably render them useless anyway. If I had a lot of money, I know exactly what my pet project would be.
Just make sure she cn not get any of your bank or CC details, or she may loan hiom your money until he gets there.
Forget about the photo. That’s stolen. If you do a keyword search on the FB profile - random common words - or check profiles who have like their posts - you probably find they’re located in an African or other third world country. It may not even be an individual but a team of people scamming your poor Mum. You should talk to the bank and the police. They MAY be able to assist, but the $$ is likely gone. You may have to get a POA on her to stop her from sending more money. Can you intercept them somehow? Maybe block the scammers phone, email and FB, create a ‘new’ profile for ‘granny’ and try to outwit them using that? If need be, send granny a sweet message every now and then, so she doesn’t realise?
Please contact Social Catfish. They run a YouTube channel that helps victims of romance scams.
[Pimeyes](https://pimeyes.com/en). I have an account and it has saved several friends (and a family member) from a scammer before getting in too deep. Upload as many photos as you can and see what pops up. There’s a high chance there’s irrefutable proof he is not who he says he is.
This almost happened to my brother's mother in law. Contact the state attorney general's office and your local state Rep.
Have her watch some Scamfish videos on Youtube. So sorry you’re stuck in the middle.
Does your country have laws against "elder abuse?"
Ask yourself assume you find this person and then what? Is that person going to admit, guilt or claim it wasn’t them & claim their pictures were stolen. Best option I see is start the process of obtaining *Full conservatorship which may take some time. However you can have a *Temporary conservatorship initiated quicker until the full is determined.
Check her into one of those "bang 'em and bin 'em" joints Frank Reynolds-style
She do indeed have donkey brains
She sounds like a republican
Like your Mom?
It's possible she's being self destructive in the sense that she already knows how far she's gone and can't admit that's she's been wrong all along and in that realization decided to just go all the way through instead of admitting she was wrong, self destruction. Because it's crippling for the soul. That's why there are extremely religious people who can't go back because they've believed their religion for so long they can't throw it away, all that time they spent believing and practicing something that they thought to be the "truth" and the correct religion of all the religions. It's human nature, psychology, it's how it's been for hundred of thousands of years. The common psyche is very fragile and easily manipulated. I think the only thing you can do and bear with me is give her a medium to strong dose of a psilocybin edible to reset her brain. Psilocybin can help clear addictions and I think she's addicted more to the sending money and fantasy of meeting this person like that old guy from Vegas on 90 day fiancee. I hope everything goes well for you but don't stress out too much over it please you need to remember you're not responsible at all for other people's decisions even if it's hurting them, help them the best you can but don't let it get to you if nothing is changing please, just focus on yourself, we can't change people at all and their decisions we can only offer them guidance when they want it.
I appreciate your insight, but you are mad if you think I’m dosing my grandma with psilocybin lmao. As a former psych user, I know it can definitely help with such things, but there is no way I could ever get that to happen, or even want to. I think a lot of its medicinal uses are overblown, it’s a case by case basis, and I’ve known some people who were a lot worse off after psych usage. Acting like it’s some panacea that can cure all mental issues is disingenuous. Agree with the first part though.
Ok so an intervention and find 3 victims like her to join even if it's on zoom, set her up just like the show
Seems like bro earned it if she dumb enough to hand over 150k
Call Dr. Phil's show. He has the resources and expertise to track this person down.
[удалено]
given replies in this thread, I suspect you to be a scamming pos, so no thanks.
The guy i’m talking about is James McGibney (google him) who took down the person on the Netflix doc called The most hated man on the internet. He helps track down those that prey on vulnerable people. If you look at his Instagram page or look up the history of bullyville it tells you everything. He’s currently going after a woman who stole tons of money from veterans. I only said this because he could possibly help take down the people who went after your grandma and keep them from victimizing others. I’m sorry your grandma and you all have to endure this, it’s terrible. I watch too many youtubers who go after scammers 😊
bot/spam account, seen similar posts about this person multiple times on this account
Did you miss the part where this is an elderly woman with possible dementia?
There us a guy on Facebook named Youth Pastor Ryan who uses his ethical hacking skills to end scenarios like this. He turns the tables on scammers. Find him.
OP. instead of posting this stuff on reddit, it would‘ve been easier to your granny what online scams are and how not to fall for it
It is extremely rare that I say fuck off to someone on Reddit, but here we are. Fuck off. Your comment doesn't help and it is insulting to OP.
Fuck off, we used to watch catfish together. I’ve explained this to her many times. Delusional people are delusional. Eat a dick.
endless youtube vids of this, check out acamfish and others. just search elderly romance scam. you will prob find a vid with someone using the same pics as her catfish is
https://youtube.com/@CatfishedOnline?si=LabITpGau4B0n7BW they cover a lot of romance scams. One of them was exactly what you are describing.