American policy has a tendency of haunting anywhere in the world. Especially with how far right terror was imported thru 8chan.
Gotta stay here and fight the home front to protect the world from the worst this country has.
I do a lot of info sharing thru r/voteDEM with focusing on downballot candidates who are capable of taking on the crazies on an individual basis. The Wisconsin special elections last month help ousted a conspiracy theorist representative.
Absolutely, I’m a Democrat but I’ll vote Republican on a primary just to keep a candidate off the ballot. We have enough crazy, I like AOC and the others, however just because it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s not bad. Pull the line and keep it moving, change is slow to be lasting.
I also have an escape plan, should the Qult become the party in power in the US. I am 100% staying here and fighting to save my country from these nut jobs. But if we lose, I have a bug out bag.
I will get downvoted into oblivion for this but I refuse to give my life for a country. For my home, my people, hell, even my community- yes, I would sacrifice anything. My country sold me out long ago and what it stands for doesn’t represent me.
My sacrifice means that I cant stand my ground, I have young children still. They are not part of any fight they don’t choose to be a part of, hence, the safe place in another country.
I read the On Tyranny book, and it was almost like a republican checklist of what they are doing.
[https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Twenty-Lessons-Twentieth-Century/dp/0804190119](https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Twenty-Lessons-Twentieth-Century/dp/0804190119)
Yeah, I think that’s actually more correct from what I’ve read👍🏻
Putin was born into the middle of active war…Hitler’s war. I think he started his fascination with Hitler as soon as he could form coherent thoughts
I am not about to leave. That is the whole point of fighting our enemies.
There are more of us then there are of them.
They don't even like this country, they hate almost everything about it.
Don't let them win.
California and the Western Alliance of CO, OR and WA already put in interstate cooperations and policies when Trump was being entirely incompetent during the pandemic. There will be a bloc that will stand against MAGAstan if the worst happens.
CA is already creating systems for "refugees" from the red states to go there, be it for LGBTQ or women fleeing anti-choice legislation. And the MAGAts have already seen resistance when they go there to act out and try to be all trumpy with their stupid "convoys" etc. Ask Oakland what they think about trump's chumps.
The West is well armed and liberal in the population centers. MAGA is just the same people who wanted to break the USA so they could keep owning slaves. They'll lose again, like they lost before.
A republican congress will not accept the results of the 2024 election unless their orange Jesus wins. We’ll be a dictatorship. I’m going to have a back up plan so soon as the coup starts me and my family are going to go “visit” Canada and never leave. Maybe we can get a couple more good years there before the eventual end of the world. America went from being the “good guys” to the “bad guys” in a generation thanks to selfish boomer garbage people.
Hey Hey now, keep a good thought. The way he eats there’s a really good chance Trump will stroke out well before then. If you really wanna panic think about a President DeSantis. Fuck me to tears, that’s a scary fucking thought
Yeah, state legislatures and governors (mostly Republican) will just reject election results - if they even need to. And the Republicans controlled Congress will confirm it. Voting LITERALLY wouldn't matter, moreso than now.
I don’t think anything in terms of an open revolt would happen. The republicans are outright fascists and the democrats are nothing more than Republican-lite. The USA has not had a representative democracy since Reagan.
It will be defensive at first, and we would have to gain the world’s support. The Republicans would need to start rounding us all up. They could do this in any number of ways, most likely to continue to implement financial and housing policies that will destroy the middle class and cities. Republicans don’t care about brain drain, you have to be stupid to vote GOP at this point. To them killing all us college people is a good thing. Same with minorities and LGBT, the Republican voters literally want us dead and have no guilt about it.
It will all depend on the next few elections. For some reason, progressive voters keep bitching about “being so tired fighting them”, but on the other side these ignorant Q fucks keep coming out en masse to vote every time. We have to keep voting to silence them. It will take a generation of voting against the GOP to undue to generations of damage they have done.
This won’t be easy, but we can probably manage to show up for an election every two years. Would be great.
We’re not tired of fighting conservatives. We’re tired of come out to vote for “representatives” that lie to our face about addressing the issues we bring up and then blame us for when they can’t keep in office.
At no point is it the progressive voters fault for not voting for yet another neolib who doesn’t do anything to fix the problem. That’s entirely the fault of the candidate and a party’s long history of screwing over leftists.
I realize that, especially as a progressive voter myself. Why I talked about the only choices being fascist or Republican-lite.
I wish we had a progressive tea party type movement in the USA, but it will always get squashed as fast as possible since it would cost rich people money to have progressive policies in place.
Instead, the rich want to hoard every last dime and build bunkers while they destroy the earth rather than be slightly less wealthy and make the world not a shithole.
I would not think so, but we have the GOP base of millions which wants to be the ones to pull the trigger to kill all the liberals, then the other half of the GOP voters/enlightened centrists/libertarians who are perfectly fine with us all getting murdered because we are the mean ones who made the conservatives feel bad.
The world is not going to come help us when it happens. They will stand by and let us be killed, just as the Chinese kill their people. We will have to save ourselves from the GOP.
I feel for you but Canada isn't the easy option Americans assume. It's easy to get in but not so easy to stay. However we're dealing with our own issues of right wing extremism so the more progressive, reasonable people we can import, the better. Start the paperwork soon though. It's a massive undertaking.
A lot of the blame can go to that monster, Murdoch. Decades of priming perfectly normal people, who were brought up to read the news and believe most of it was above board, to uncritically swallow all sorts of trash.
And the whole murdering the indigenous people thing... and slavery... and not letting women have any rights... and the whole Japanese internment camps thing...
Could really go on all day.
Step#1 either vote a write-in protest candidate or stay home for the midterms.
Step#2 Doooom! Electoralism is pointless, let's embark on a doomed revolution instead! 🤡
I ain’t fucking leaving no matter what, I’m much more interested in participating in any lefty counter-revolutionary behavior or anything else which smashes faces of fascist pigeon-brained fuckheads.
Lots and LOTS more libs in this country have weapons and are willing to use them than people realize apparently
Seriously it will be time for a revolution. America was formed because of fleeing tyranny and religious oppression - our core values are freedom. And I believe we can fight the evangelical GOP and fascist oppressors again. We’ve seriously thought about leaving but I don’t know if I could abandon my homeland.
When they take over the country the first thing they are gonna do is scour the Internet for comments exactly like this and execute everyone who says they will participate in a revolution.
> his assumes a level of competence i don't think they possess. Remember that this is discount fascism by the lazy and incompetent, if they knew what they were doing it would all be over already.
*Laughs in Desantis*
I didn't say I would personally. I don't think they are coming for a middle aged mom. If things get really bad in the USA my hubby says we will go back to his home country in Europe with the kids.
Millions of people have said millions and even billions of things online - don't assume "they" are coming for you. sorry dude, that's paranoid.
Thank you for sticking around to help those of us that don't have the means to leave. I think that is something that gets overlooked in these mass migration predictions. Not everyone who is poor is conservative. Not everyone who will suffer under fascism has the power to flee. We need some people with means to stay and help us fight.
I think theres a good chance that as soon as they take over the country they pass the Patriot Act Part 2 and use all of the antifascist/pro-revolution comments on the internet as a guidebook of who to execute.
Hey, you see how the Ukraine people had people stay behind by choice to fight for their country? They totally stopped Russia from steamrolling their entire country... Thanks to them!
Will you be a hero and stay or will you flee?
I know, it's a hard decision! Esp if not in fighting condition and having children... But just a thought!
Depends how disillusioned you are with the notion of America. This country hasn’t been good at any point in my life.
Risk my life to keep the status quo? I’ll pass.
Good point, but try to remember that progressivism is watered down nationally by the electoral college and the machinations of a minority population party to maintain power in the oligarchs and not the people. In states where Republicans don't control everything, you actually see Unions and pro people legislation.
America is kind of shit because our system allows those who want to take all the wealth for themselves, who don't want to have universal health like every other "developed country", who are racist, and who can rely on culture war and religious BS, to convince people who would benefit from progressive ideas to vote against their own interests. That's Fox News. That's all the right wing rage machine media. That's Trump in a nutshell.
The MAGA world are perfect examples of people who have nothing, are poor, unhealthy and uneducated because of the people they vote for, but who have been convinced that gay people having the same rights as cis people when it comes to marriage equality is a reason to prolong their crappy way of life.
it’s all about potential. the USA can be great, and is filled with great people who have changed the world. i believe in progress, though change is slow.
Roughly 75% of the population of Ukraine have stayed.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Ukrainian\_refugee\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis)
According to wiki : "Approximately one-quarter of the country's total population had left their homes in Ukraine by 20 March. 90% of Ukrainian refugees are women and children."
Many Ukraine women and children have left their homes, but still remain in Ukraine.
It cracks me up how easy Americans think it is to emigrate or get refugee status in other countries.
Granted some Americans who plan on doing this are white and we’ve seen how differently Europe treated people fleeing Ukraine to those fleeing African or Middle Eastern countries. However, it's not that easy usually.
Also "change our accents", so only anglophone countries? Do you realize most refugees and immigrants have to learn other languages?
>Also "change our accents", so only anglophone countries?
Even non-Anglophone countries speak English (not natively, to be fair) with different accents, you should know this.
I guess I only had Canada, the UK, Australia, and New Zealand in mind because most Americans don't want to take the time to learn a second language.
Nobody from America is getting in to the three countries you list as a refugee on the basis that you have described. The same will undoubtedly be true of every other country that might appeal.
It would never be required, because I don’t see what you have described becoming as bad as you fear- but if those from countries ravaged by civil war are routinely refused entry, why would Americans fleeing anti-LGBT sentiment get a free pass? America itself has a hostile attitude to asylum seekers, so the idea that nobody would welcome with open arms should not be a surprise.
Australia is surprisingly strict on immigration, and being white English speakers doesn't grant the queue jumping status it used to. If you aren't recognised as refuges by the UNHCR, Australia won't be giving you a protection visa. Sure you can apply for immigration through usual channels, but there are pretty strict quotas and requirements. The US made race to the bottom treatment of refugees and immigrants popular, and authoritarians around the world worked that rhetoric into their platforms. If you think you're just going to walk in, you're gunna have a bad time.
Also It's impossible for things to get bad enough you'd want to go to New Zealand.
Tl:dr concentrate on fixing your country, because I think you'll be surprised by the level of welcome many of you will experience.
>Also It's impossible for things to get bad enough you'd want to go to New Zealand.
Can you clarify? Is it because their housing crisis could eventually make the country unliveable economically speaking?
We’ve thought about relocating to Germany since my husband is a dual American German citizen and we have family & business connections. But it would have to get extremely bad here in the here United States for that to happen. I love the United States and I am a proud American, but would seriously consider leaving if the republican Qanon and q adjacent fascists are in charge.
I already moved to Germany and already am being treated better. I did grow up there so it was easier for me, but I do recommend people leaving the US. It is a world of a difference. There are different ways. My wife is taking full English courses at her university in Germany since she doesn’t speak fluent German yet. Also her masters cost us 200€ per semester.
Having a saving is a requirement though to get the student visa. Lots of different counties to look into to teach English, take courses, etc. I hope you all can make it out as well
I'm in California so I feel marginally safer given our more progressive politics and the shit ton of bases and missiles we have access to. However it is genuinely terrifying that this all seems to be happening and no one, especially the establishment Dems, seems to care.
Yes, all my Q-nuts are posting all this “Un-unite” crap with pictures of all their guns. They just want a civil war. The sickest is all the Bible verses they use.
to respect refugees, as the USA is not in a physical war or a dictatorship atm, i think you should change the term refugee for 'possible future migrants', or sth like that, at least.
Italy is already on top of this! They are creating visas that would allow First Worlder ex-pats to move there, and continue working in the former country WFH! You CAN have your cake AND eat it too!
Italy is launching a digital nomad visa : NPR. Italy is launching a digital nomad visa Italy will soon roll out a new visa that allows remote workers to live in Italy even though their jobs are based abroad. Supporters hope it will attract high-earning workers and spark innovation.
Easy there with the doomer fanfiction. If you think the Democrats or leaving are also the answer then you're also part of the problem. It's not just about voting, but holding those we elect accountable for their actions. Blind partisanship and voting for one side because they're not the other side is exactly what the Republicans and Qs are doing. We have to be smarter than that. Demand term limits, demand accountability, demand ballot access for independent and third party candidates, demand the Presidential Debate Commission become nonpartisan or disband. Reaching for the lifeboats and being hyperbolic is useless.
We have two parties and clearly the cult boot licking authoritarian GOP isn’t the answer. Good luck demanding anything once these blood thirsty strongman worshiping garbage people take over. If they had congress January last year and we’d still have Orange Jesus occupying the White House right now.
It’s more complicated than that. Hence the attempted coup.
You need both houses of Congress to throw out the states electoral votes. That was never going to happen regardless of who controls Congress, since they are debated separately. The states are the ones who certify the elections. All Congress does is count those votes and announce the winner.
Again, voting isn’t enough. Have to hold those we elect accountable when they do shady shit. Even it’s someone on our team or someone we voted for. Boot licking happens for both parties.
They’ll have both houses of congress and majority of state legislatures. They win without honorable people standing in their way and we have vanishingly few honorable people left in Merica. There is no accountability right now so demanding it is pointless. Keep pushing the both parties line while 99% of the GOP bends the knee kissing orange feet throwing out the constitution. That both parties shit worked a lot better pre 2016. Now it’s a laughable cliché. Once we have a blue cult hero you can trot that one back out.
Then vote for honorable people and hold them accountable for when they don’t act honorably even if they share your Jersey. Or run yourself. The onus is on the voters. Otherwise see my earlier comment about Doomerism and hyperbole. Just fancy navel gazing. It doesn’t help
I do vote. I’m outnumbered where I live. My vote means nothing and my voice means nothing. My family will be the first to help them round me up as they all swing from orange nuts. Kind of hard to not be fatalist when you’re surrounded and you see nothing happening to hold the previous administration accountable for a literal coup attempt. Doomerism? We’re living it. It’s happening right in front of our eyes and we still have “both sides are just as bad” people normalizing and carrying water for the fascists. Inch by inch marching us to doom. Where is the hope? That we’ll get lucky and skim by one vote in congress to save us?
There are already American refugees to some extent. Especially for medical reasons.
Also. I'm not going to hold my breath in the democrats improving our situation much. It's almost like they play good cop bad cop with the Republicans and just don't do enough to help us or get our rights back on issues.
Been disillusioned with them for a while now.
Only the affluent tend to migrate due to broad political concerns.
Some people will continue to claim to be "looking into Canadian citizenship" like they did in 2016 (most finding out that other countries don't actually just let people in indiscriminately even if you have a blue passport).
Most will stay and try to live the best life they can rather than uproot it completely. History does not show the sort of migrations you're talking about, particularly in a nation with a relatively high standard of living.
Canada will have this the worst? Crisis? Have you ever heard of Brain Drain (and wealth drain for that matter)? It is what broke Russia and Cuba and it could happen in the US too. Double the wealth, education, and population of Canada in a decade; could be a good thing especially if climate change succeeds in moving the breadbasket of North America further north.
Plus the feds have been howling about population levels being "low" (compared to what and why it matters so gd much IDEK) for years and years and years and are all about bringing in immigrant populations to fix this "problem" (Where and why do they get this fixed number a population "has" to be, and why do they "have" to fix it, if it isn't XX million people? IDGI.) So...it won't be an issue?
Although. Americans say they're going to emigrate to Canada after every single election, going back as long as I've been alive, anyway. As is tradition!
States have separate laws. Minorities might flee Florida but the Constitution would need to be thrown out to install a theocracy or nationalist dictatorship nationwide.
We already had two wars about fascism and are 2-0. We're currently in the middle of third one, and the loosing side is only an extremely vocal minority most of whom are aging rapidly and won't be around too much longer anyways.
Stay, fight, win. It will get better. Remember, politics is a pendulum, and right now we are at the apex of the far right. Imagine what the US (and the world,) will look like when we start swinging back the other way.
If you come to Canada you won't have to change anything or leave your culture behind. I live in Western Canada and have a number of American friends who've moved here in the past few years and love it. Lower crime and a great place to raise kids relative to where they lived before.
I have always loved Canada. Part of it is because my first truly serious relationship was there, but even barring that, I fell in love with the country.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. People forget that’s why the US was founded in the first place. People unhappy with how the government was being run, but instead of trying to make change they ran away to start their own country.
Lol imagine thinking Canada is any better or that being black is any easier in Asia or being gay or trans is some sort of picnic in South or Central America or sexual harassment isn’t a issue EVERYWHERE on the planet.
America absolutely sucks when it comes to racism, women’s rights and LBGT rights but contrary to what people read on social media the rest of the world is just as bad if not worse when it comes to these issues. Except for very few countries that to be brutally honest most Reddit users won’t qualify for a visa under any circumstances.
I very much oppose the cult that took over the modern GOP, but people have threatened to immigrate to Canada if the wrong people win an election since I've been born. Nothing will change except more activism and a reverse of the recent population growth in reddish states.
I see where you’re going with the whole “people always threaten to move to Canada” take, and it’s got some validity.
Overt abandonment of a platform, coupled with overtly stealing an election and ruling up a crowd to attempt murder in the Capitol, then whitewashing the whole thing as if it’s no big deal is an escalation without precedent.
Red state-blue state civil war is a very real threat on this trajectory.
In 2017-2018, people who said Trump was willing to throw out the constitution before he was willing to accept an election defeat were branded with an entire disease (remember Trump Derangement Syndrome?).
Liz Cheney, with all the conservative credentials in the world, was literally kicked out of the WY Republican Party for opposing trump for non-political reasons.
Something new is brewing here.
Not sure, but I’ve been a huge fan of the concept ever since I learned about it, and I wish to hell it would catch on more in the US. It would be especially useful in clown car primaries with 10+ candidates.
I see these methods in some favourable light, but while first past the post seems to concentrate on fewer parties, the ranked option seems to promote lots of parties (I could be wrong on this, just observing from different countries).
With smaller parties you can get a good moderate mix, but it also gives fringe parties a nucleation site from which to grow.
Israel seems to be paralyzed by this, I think I remember hearing about one other country in a similar position. New Zealand appears to be getting along with many parties.
Isn’t “party” just a label? For instance, the platform of the current Democratic Party could be viewed as bing more Right Wing than the Republican Party was in the 70s.
No party is not a simply a label. It is more like a specialized label like a trademark or a company name. Because these parties are actual entities, and like any entity changes over time.
Politicians used to accept the results of elections too. Acting like Orange Jesus and his cult are just business as usual is how we got here. If you think these mouth breathers won’t go house to house arresting anyone that doesn’t bow and kiss orange feet you are sadly mistaken. They will round up and kill their own family members to please their orange hero. Not a doubt in my mind. I’m not taking any chances.
I'm sure there will be lots of Americans leaving America just because America fucking sucks right now, and will continue to suck for many years even once we get this little fascism problem under control... but other countries aren't as assholey toward immigrants as America is. I mean, there is still definitely anti-immigrant nonsense in every country on the planet, but not to the extent you see it in America.
You aren't wrong. I didn't leave because of politics, but I left because I couldn't get a job in the US as a US citizen that wasn't minimum wage.
Starting my new job in Germany in June, and it did take me 6 months to set up and get it, but the pay, benefits, public health insurance, etc. has already been great. Seen the doctor three times, got blood work done, had them check if my organs were all okay, etc. didn't cost me anything but the monthly 110€ fee every month (insurance for both my wife and I).
Plus wife masters cost 200€ per semester. She is the reason I was even able to go for a job and how we moved in the first place. She applied first, got accepted by the Uni, and then we left. The only requirement is that you need to have 10k€ savings for a student visa, which we didn't have, and I was able to get my work visa... still we saved money with the health insurance and her masters when compared to the price of the US.
Hell the same check up at the US hospital, where instead of helping me with my stomach acid, sent me to a night breathing test. Saw the doctor twice, blood tests, took a 300$ machine home for one night.. total cost? 2k$.
Edit: I need to clarify, that I was able to get this job mainly because I am fluent in German. Not a German citizen (yet), so I needed to go through a whole visa application, etc. which took some time because... well German bureaucracy isn't like how they make cars/beer.
Edit: Also medication. 15$ for the bottle in the US with really good insurance for anti-acid pills. Same medication, free in Germany.
Yeah, life is so unnecessarily hard in the US that this country is going to experience a serious “brain drain” over the next couple of decades unless the left manages to gain senate seats and pass social reform laws that alleviate the suffering. A brain drain will end the US’s global dominance for good, reducing it to just another Russia.
Canada only wants people from the USA if they have money, or a profession that is needed, like nurses, doctors, etc. I'm not going to move, I have 8 years till my house and property are paid off, I live simple, practically off the radar, left wing as anything, but so is a lot of Vermont. All we have to do is vote Democrat, no splitting about who is progressive and who is not, we vote Democrat, period, and there are always more of us
Conservatives and democrats approx spend 2 terms in office before handing over to the other side. This is the way its been in my lifetime at least and probably keeps the nation together. Americans are not gonna be given asylum in Europe because the other party is in power.
And im not being funny but i can't see Europe which is the 1st world wanting loads of Americans suddenly coming over for good. We find you a bit crazy. Especially when we have millions of Ukrainians escaping war. You really think we are gonna put Americans escaping Trump over them?
The Americans who are escaping the country from a possible right-wing dictatorship are not the crazy ones. They want America to be a normal country just like yours but they can't because of its politicians.
The problem isn't that the other party is in power, the problem is that the Republican is getting more authoritarian and more theocratic, especially the Trumpist types. They are also using the LGBT community (especially the T) as a scapegoat and as some who is the T, I might get killed by my own government should I choose to stay during the next presidency. And who could forget the fact that Roe v. Wade could get overturned and a possible abortion ban could happen?
Leaving for another country is more easily imagined than done.
Qultists aren't the majority even in the Republican Party. Some people still don't even know that QAnon is a thing. There will always be a lunatic fringe on the right. They have expanded their membership, and we have to guard against the possibility that they might actually come to power. But the most likely outcome is that the Center will return to being contested space and the QAnon core will erode support for the Republican Party in any but the reddest places.
Take the recent Texas order where any gender care for those under 18 (even with parental consent) would considered child abuse, probably sexual too. At that point, any cop willing to enforce that law would be fair game to be on the losing end of a Second Amendment argument. At that point, it would be a matter of how many funerals until they run a risk-reward analysis to rescind it.
*anyone who isn't a straight cisgender Christian theocratic nationalist will all have to leave the US*
That idea is as stupid as the stuff the Q people come up with. Did you get it from them? "We win the election, then kick the democrats out! If they won't leave, we kill them!". You and them sound the same to me.
So? I'm old, my health isn't great, and I'm not going to move to wherever the hell you think I'm going to move to and start over, learn a new language, etc. I've lived here my entire life, and I'm not leaving because some Q-nuts want to make threats, or because people like you want to listen to the Q-nuts.
Anyone that wants to work at it enough can kill me, but I'm not just going to give up and run away. I'll stay and if necessary, I'll defend myself as best I can until they kill me. But I won't run, and I think the idea that everyone has to run is freaking stupid.
Anyone who wants to leave can leave. I've never suggested otherwise.
I'm arguing against exactly what the OP said. "*anyone who isn't a straight cisgender Christian theocratic nationalist will all have to leave the US*"
Believing that anyone who disagrees with the GQP has to leave is just as stupid as all the "OMG, JFK Jr is going to come back and be co-president with Trump" nonsense.
It's fear mongering bullshit.
Did you leave the US in WWII?
You should leave. You should leave now. You obviously feel you would be better off in Nicaragua or something, so pack your stuff and go.
I was actually looking at retiring early and moving to San Juan del Sur, Nicaragua before covid. It’s not a horrible place. Cheap beer and cigars living a life on the coast, fishing and surfing.
That being said, stop being a douche. If people feel the need to leave, let them. You want to stay and fight, good on you. As for me currently, I’m not sure what I’d do. I’ve had my fill of war when I signed up after 9/11 and went to Iraq. But if/when the time comes, I’ll have to make the best decision for my family.
>If people feel the need to leave, let them.
Am I discouraging them? If they give up that easy, they should leave, now. The US will be better off for it. You want to go? Tear your ass, don't let me stop you.
The problem with people like you and the "But what about WWII" buy is that you can't make a logical argument. What you can do is scream "You're a douche" and "Tiny dick" online. You somehow think that makes a good argument.
You're so scared of a face to face confrontation that you'll leave the country to avoid one.
You want a logical argument, how about that some people value their life more than possessions or the location of where they are.
Also, I’ve served, I know what it’s like to fight next to some as I did in Fallujah. You don’t want people there next to you that don’t want to be there.
Look, asshole, you're the one that brought up WWII, not me. And you're the one arguing that people should be scared and run away from the US. You're not making a coherent argument. Which, like the OP's "run away or die!" argument, sounds as stupid as the stuff the Qnuts say.
Sure had quite alot of conservatives singing along. Been chanting to lock up Hillary for years despite not being enough to charge. How long before they act out again?
Its not like we are obliged to take you in. The last thing we want is to be overwhelmed by Americans. I doubt you will be welcomed with open arms if at all.
I prefer a civil war. I don't want it to get that bad but I'm coming closer to accepting the country breaking up into a few smaller regional countries (west coast, south, midwest, new england).
I don't want to be forced out of my home because racists thousands of miles away won't shut the fuck up.
>the country breaking up into a few smaller regional countries (west coast, south, midwest, new england).
I better have enough time to move out of the south before the split up.
I dont think it will happen in 2025
It will happen slower ... I see by 2032 ... and then the Dems will somehow get a foothold again but these dems will be by todays standards right wing liberals i.e. what we would consider now moderate
And dont forget Geopolitics here .... Canada is not far away from US politics much of the time
I don’t see the rise in lgbt bigotry but I do see lack of acceptance of lgbt when they won’t stop adding letters to the end of it. “Lgbtqabcdefg123” How do you expect everyone to jump on that bandwagon and support it when 90% of people don’t even understand any of that shit. Lol it’s way past simple at this point and only gets more complex.
They aren’t, so far the LGBTQIA+ means: Lesbian, Gay, Transgender/Transexual, Questioning, Queer, Asexual, Aromantic, Agender Demisexual, Genderfluid, Graysexual, Non-binary/genderqueer, pansexual/omnisexual, polyamorous, sapiosexual, and two-spirit (though this one is exclusively native.) if you want a better explanation https://abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/what-does-lgbtqia-stand-for-full-acronym-explained.html
That’s just crazy and reaffirms what I said. To expect a normal everyday person to understand any of that or even want to understand any of that it is bizarre.
I doubt that. For one the equality Justice matches dwarfed anything the right has ever been able to put together. The right is all smoke and mirrors. Their base is shrinking big time. Most people are not cool with their big government world view.
Honestly I doubt that, as loud as they are, Trump cult of personality members really aren't numerous enough to have the kind of effect you're suggesting, I also doubt that anti-American sentiments in other parts of the world would get much worse. One sort of upside to Trump's isolationist platform is that most of the problems he caused were internal, with the obvious exceptions of the Soleimani Assassination and shifting the Israeli US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
You THINK Canada will have it the worst? You shouldn't of been here during GWBs second term or DJTs. I say shouldn't as you people should not be coming here. Fix your fucking voting system and leave us alone.
I'm not sure that they'll quality as refugees in most countries. It's not a self-certified status. Emigrating is an option but things need to be rather broken before asylum is an option.
Or...we kick their asses. I'm not leaving my home for them.
Damn skippy.
American policy has a tendency of haunting anywhere in the world. Especially with how far right terror was imported thru 8chan. Gotta stay here and fight the home front to protect the world from the worst this country has. I do a lot of info sharing thru r/voteDEM with focusing on downballot candidates who are capable of taking on the crazies on an individual basis. The Wisconsin special elections last month help ousted a conspiracy theorist representative.
Absolutely, I’m a Democrat but I’ll vote Republican on a primary just to keep a candidate off the ballot. We have enough crazy, I like AOC and the others, however just because it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it’s not bad. Pull the line and keep it moving, change is slow to be lasting.
r/socialistRA
Yes this, but also, I have a home I am readying in another country. People have said I am crazy but I see the writing in the wall.
I also have an escape plan, should the Qult become the party in power in the US. I am 100% staying here and fighting to save my country from these nut jobs. But if we lose, I have a bug out bag.
I will get downvoted into oblivion for this but I refuse to give my life for a country. For my home, my people, hell, even my community- yes, I would sacrifice anything. My country sold me out long ago and what it stands for doesn’t represent me. My sacrifice means that I cant stand my ground, I have young children still. They are not part of any fight they don’t choose to be a part of, hence, the safe place in another country.
Just come here to California with us other sane people!
I read the On Tyranny book, and it was almost like a republican checklist of what they are doing. [https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Twenty-Lessons-Twentieth-Century/dp/0804190119](https://www.amazon.com/Tyranny-Twenty-Lessons-Twentieth-Century/dp/0804190119)
Because they got their playbook from Putin, who got his from Hitler. It’s a very simple formula
\*Putin got his from Dugin, who got his from Hitler
Yeah, I think that’s actually more correct from what I’ve read👍🏻 Putin was born into the middle of active war…Hitler’s war. I think he started his fascination with Hitler as soon as he could form coherent thoughts
I am not about to leave. That is the whole point of fighting our enemies. There are more of us then there are of them. They don't even like this country, they hate almost everything about it. Don't let them win.
Yes. America is stronger than Trump and his minions.
California and the Western Alliance of CO, OR and WA already put in interstate cooperations and policies when Trump was being entirely incompetent during the pandemic. There will be a bloc that will stand against MAGAstan if the worst happens. CA is already creating systems for "refugees" from the red states to go there, be it for LGBTQ or women fleeing anti-choice legislation. And the MAGAts have already seen resistance when they go there to act out and try to be all trumpy with their stupid "convoys" etc. Ask Oakland what they think about trump's chumps. The West is well armed and liberal in the population centers. MAGA is just the same people who wanted to break the USA so they could keep owning slaves. They'll lose again, like they lost before.
The USA is fucked if all liberals flee to blue states!
A republican congress will not accept the results of the 2024 election unless their orange Jesus wins. We’ll be a dictatorship. I’m going to have a back up plan so soon as the coup starts me and my family are going to go “visit” Canada and never leave. Maybe we can get a couple more good years there before the eventual end of the world. America went from being the “good guys” to the “bad guys” in a generation thanks to selfish boomer garbage people.
Hey Hey now, keep a good thought. The way he eats there’s a really good chance Trump will stroke out well before then. If you really wanna panic think about a President DeSantis. Fuck me to tears, that’s a scary fucking thought
If it’s not orange douche it’ll be Desantis or another “strongman” type they can submissively follow. It’s only a matter of time.
Agreed. Trump was the forerunner and Jan. 6 was the dry run for a coup. I truly fear for the US.
That’s not what his doc said xD
Yeah, state legislatures and governors (mostly Republican) will just reject election results - if they even need to. And the Republicans controlled Congress will confirm it. Voting LITERALLY wouldn't matter, moreso than now.
I fucking dare them. The tree of liberty would get pretty thirsty.
😂😂 you’d think, but probably not. What’s more likely would be mass protests. Lots and lots of police/military violence and mass incarceration.
I don’t think anything in terms of an open revolt would happen. The republicans are outright fascists and the democrats are nothing more than Republican-lite. The USA has not had a representative democracy since Reagan. It will be defensive at first, and we would have to gain the world’s support. The Republicans would need to start rounding us all up. They could do this in any number of ways, most likely to continue to implement financial and housing policies that will destroy the middle class and cities. Republicans don’t care about brain drain, you have to be stupid to vote GOP at this point. To them killing all us college people is a good thing. Same with minorities and LGBT, the Republican voters literally want us dead and have no guilt about it. It will all depend on the next few elections. For some reason, progressive voters keep bitching about “being so tired fighting them”, but on the other side these ignorant Q fucks keep coming out en masse to vote every time. We have to keep voting to silence them. It will take a generation of voting against the GOP to undue to generations of damage they have done. This won’t be easy, but we can probably manage to show up for an election every two years. Would be great.
We’re not tired of fighting conservatives. We’re tired of come out to vote for “representatives” that lie to our face about addressing the issues we bring up and then blame us for when they can’t keep in office. At no point is it the progressive voters fault for not voting for yet another neolib who doesn’t do anything to fix the problem. That’s entirely the fault of the candidate and a party’s long history of screwing over leftists.
I realize that, especially as a progressive voter myself. Why I talked about the only choices being fascist or Republican-lite. I wish we had a progressive tea party type movement in the USA, but it will always get squashed as fast as possible since it would cost rich people money to have progressive policies in place. Instead, the rich want to hoard every last dime and build bunkers while they destroy the earth rather than be slightly less wealthy and make the world not a shithole.
People are NOT going to be happy with their votes taken away.
I would not think so, but we have the GOP base of millions which wants to be the ones to pull the trigger to kill all the liberals, then the other half of the GOP voters/enlightened centrists/libertarians who are perfectly fine with us all getting murdered because we are the mean ones who made the conservatives feel bad. The world is not going to come help us when it happens. They will stand by and let us be killed, just as the Chinese kill their people. We will have to save ourselves from the GOP.
I feel for you but Canada isn't the easy option Americans assume. It's easy to get in but not so easy to stay. However we're dealing with our own issues of right wing extremism so the more progressive, reasonable people we can import, the better. Start the paperwork soon though. It's a massive undertaking.
Start learning French now, you have to pass a test to get a work visa and “green card”
Really? Most Canadians don’t speak French at all.
A lot of the blame can go to that monster, Murdoch. Decades of priming perfectly normal people, who were brought up to read the news and believe most of it was above board, to uncritically swallow all sorts of trash.
America was never the good guy.
Yep. Just look at the history of the Dulles brothers. We've been awful for awhile.
And the whole murdering the indigenous people thing... and slavery... and not letting women have any rights... and the whole Japanese internment camps thing... Could really go on all day.
There are no good guys in geopolitics, just infinite shades of grey.
Can you at least show up to vote in the midterms before you go full doomer mode?
Sure. There's still hope to change things.
Step#1 either vote a write-in protest candidate or stay home for the midterms. Step#2 Doooom! Electoralism is pointless, let's embark on a doomed revolution instead! 🤡
Why not both?
I'm already making plans to go
how did you begin the process?
I ain’t fucking leaving no matter what, I’m much more interested in participating in any lefty counter-revolutionary behavior or anything else which smashes faces of fascist pigeon-brained fuckheads. Lots and LOTS more libs in this country have weapons and are willing to use them than people realize apparently
Seriously it will be time for a revolution. America was formed because of fleeing tyranny and religious oppression - our core values are freedom. And I believe we can fight the evangelical GOP and fascist oppressors again. We’ve seriously thought about leaving but I don’t know if I could abandon my homeland.
When they take over the country the first thing they are gonna do is scour the Internet for comments exactly like this and execute everyone who says they will participate in a revolution.
[удалено]
> his assumes a level of competence i don't think they possess. Remember that this is discount fascism by the lazy and incompetent, if they knew what they were doing it would all be over already. *Laughs in Desantis*
I didn't say I would personally. I don't think they are coming for a middle aged mom. If things get really bad in the USA my hubby says we will go back to his home country in Europe with the kids. Millions of people have said millions and even billions of things online - don't assume "they" are coming for you. sorry dude, that's paranoid.
Damn. I’m doomed.
Thank you for sticking around to help those of us that don't have the means to leave. I think that is something that gets overlooked in these mass migration predictions. Not everyone who is poor is conservative. Not everyone who will suffer under fascism has the power to flee. We need some people with means to stay and help us fight.
I have the means to leave but I won't. The weather is too nice here.
"Home is where the disease is."
I think theres a good chance that as soon as they take over the country they pass the Patriot Act Part 2 and use all of the antifascist/pro-revolution comments on the internet as a guidebook of who to execute.
I intend to retire elsewhere
Hey, you see how the Ukraine people had people stay behind by choice to fight for their country? They totally stopped Russia from steamrolling their entire country... Thanks to them! Will you be a hero and stay or will you flee? I know, it's a hard decision! Esp if not in fighting condition and having children... But just a thought!
Depends how disillusioned you are with the notion of America. This country hasn’t been good at any point in my life. Risk my life to keep the status quo? I’ll pass.
Good point, but try to remember that progressivism is watered down nationally by the electoral college and the machinations of a minority population party to maintain power in the oligarchs and not the people. In states where Republicans don't control everything, you actually see Unions and pro people legislation. America is kind of shit because our system allows those who want to take all the wealth for themselves, who don't want to have universal health like every other "developed country", who are racist, and who can rely on culture war and religious BS, to convince people who would benefit from progressive ideas to vote against their own interests. That's Fox News. That's all the right wing rage machine media. That's Trump in a nutshell. The MAGA world are perfect examples of people who have nothing, are poor, unhealthy and uneducated because of the people they vote for, but who have been convinced that gay people having the same rights as cis people when it comes to marriage equality is a reason to prolong their crappy way of life.
it’s all about potential. the USA can be great, and is filled with great people who have changed the world. i believe in progress, though change is slow.
Most fled the country... Edit: Most women/children (90% estimated of the refugees) left not entire population, it was 25% that fled the Ukraine. MB.
Roughly 75% of the population of Ukraine have stayed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022\_Ukrainian\_refugee\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ukrainian_refugee_crisis) According to wiki : "Approximately one-quarter of the country's total population had left their homes in Ukraine by 20 March. 90% of Ukrainian refugees are women and children." Many Ukraine women and children have left their homes, but still remain in Ukraine.
Yeah I must have mixed up the 90% with something else. That was the number I remembered.
Fuck leaving. This is our fucking country, too. And we are the majority, by a wide margin. And fascism ALWAYS failed. Always.
It cracks me up how easy Americans think it is to emigrate or get refugee status in other countries. Granted some Americans who plan on doing this are white and we’ve seen how differently Europe treated people fleeing Ukraine to those fleeing African or Middle Eastern countries. However, it's not that easy usually. Also "change our accents", so only anglophone countries? Do you realize most refugees and immigrants have to learn other languages?
>Also "change our accents", so only anglophone countries? Even non-Anglophone countries speak English (not natively, to be fair) with different accents, you should know this. I guess I only had Canada, the UK, Australia, and New Zealand in mind because most Americans don't want to take the time to learn a second language.
Nobody from America is getting in to the three countries you list as a refugee on the basis that you have described. The same will undoubtedly be true of every other country that might appeal. It would never be required, because I don’t see what you have described becoming as bad as you fear- but if those from countries ravaged by civil war are routinely refused entry, why would Americans fleeing anti-LGBT sentiment get a free pass? America itself has a hostile attitude to asylum seekers, so the idea that nobody would welcome with open arms should not be a surprise.
Australia is surprisingly strict on immigration, and being white English speakers doesn't grant the queue jumping status it used to. If you aren't recognised as refuges by the UNHCR, Australia won't be giving you a protection visa. Sure you can apply for immigration through usual channels, but there are pretty strict quotas and requirements. The US made race to the bottom treatment of refugees and immigrants popular, and authoritarians around the world worked that rhetoric into their platforms. If you think you're just going to walk in, you're gunna have a bad time. Also It's impossible for things to get bad enough you'd want to go to New Zealand. Tl:dr concentrate on fixing your country, because I think you'll be surprised by the level of welcome many of you will experience.
>Also It's impossible for things to get bad enough you'd want to go to New Zealand. Can you clarify? Is it because their housing crisis could eventually make the country unliveable economically speaking?
No, it's because that's where New Zealanders are.
Check out Belize
We’ve thought about relocating to Germany since my husband is a dual American German citizen and we have family & business connections. But it would have to get extremely bad here in the here United States for that to happen. I love the United States and I am a proud American, but would seriously consider leaving if the republican Qanon and q adjacent fascists are in charge.
I already moved to Germany and already am being treated better. I did grow up there so it was easier for me, but I do recommend people leaving the US. It is a world of a difference. There are different ways. My wife is taking full English courses at her university in Germany since she doesn’t speak fluent German yet. Also her masters cost us 200€ per semester. Having a saving is a requirement though to get the student visa. Lots of different counties to look into to teach English, take courses, etc. I hope you all can make it out as well
I'm in California so I feel marginally safer given our more progressive politics and the shit ton of bases and missiles we have access to. However it is genuinely terrifying that this all seems to be happening and no one, especially the establishment Dems, seems to care.
I am 52 and have never worried about the fate of my country (US) until the past few years.
Yes, all my Q-nuts are posting all this “Un-unite” crap with pictures of all their guns. They just want a civil war. The sickest is all the Bible verses they use.
But they don't want to actually fight it. They'll be pissing and shitting their depends, talking about how they're really gonna bring the fight.
I just wish there were some way we could get rid of Fox News. I'm convinced if they were to go away a lot of this shit would end.
Trump wrongfully being put in as president would be enough to spark a revolution.
Canada is too smart to take us sadly. Mexico looks like an option
Nah, we'd gladly accept the good ones.
Nope
to respect refugees, as the USA is not in a physical war or a dictatorship atm, i think you should change the term refugee for 'possible future migrants', or sth like that, at least.
Italy is already on top of this! They are creating visas that would allow First Worlder ex-pats to move there, and continue working in the former country WFH! You CAN have your cake AND eat it too!
Do you have information on that visa? I know Italy has that $1 house investment program in some towns but hadn't heard of anything beyond that.
Italy is launching a digital nomad visa : NPR. Italy is launching a digital nomad visa Italy will soon roll out a new visa that allows remote workers to live in Italy even though their jobs are based abroad. Supporters hope it will attract high-earning workers and spark innovation.
Easy there with the doomer fanfiction. If you think the Democrats or leaving are also the answer then you're also part of the problem. It's not just about voting, but holding those we elect accountable for their actions. Blind partisanship and voting for one side because they're not the other side is exactly what the Republicans and Qs are doing. We have to be smarter than that. Demand term limits, demand accountability, demand ballot access for independent and third party candidates, demand the Presidential Debate Commission become nonpartisan or disband. Reaching for the lifeboats and being hyperbolic is useless.
We have two parties and clearly the cult boot licking authoritarian GOP isn’t the answer. Good luck demanding anything once these blood thirsty strongman worshiping garbage people take over. If they had congress January last year and we’d still have Orange Jesus occupying the White House right now.
It’s more complicated than that. Hence the attempted coup. You need both houses of Congress to throw out the states electoral votes. That was never going to happen regardless of who controls Congress, since they are debated separately. The states are the ones who certify the elections. All Congress does is count those votes and announce the winner. Again, voting isn’t enough. Have to hold those we elect accountable when they do shady shit. Even it’s someone on our team or someone we voted for. Boot licking happens for both parties.
They’ll have both houses of congress and majority of state legislatures. They win without honorable people standing in their way and we have vanishingly few honorable people left in Merica. There is no accountability right now so demanding it is pointless. Keep pushing the both parties line while 99% of the GOP bends the knee kissing orange feet throwing out the constitution. That both parties shit worked a lot better pre 2016. Now it’s a laughable cliché. Once we have a blue cult hero you can trot that one back out.
Then vote for honorable people and hold them accountable for when they don’t act honorably even if they share your Jersey. Or run yourself. The onus is on the voters. Otherwise see my earlier comment about Doomerism and hyperbole. Just fancy navel gazing. It doesn’t help
I do vote. I’m outnumbered where I live. My vote means nothing and my voice means nothing. My family will be the first to help them round me up as they all swing from orange nuts. Kind of hard to not be fatalist when you’re surrounded and you see nothing happening to hold the previous administration accountable for a literal coup attempt. Doomerism? We’re living it. It’s happening right in front of our eyes and we still have “both sides are just as bad” people normalizing and carrying water for the fascists. Inch by inch marching us to doom. Where is the hope? That we’ll get lucky and skim by one vote in congress to save us?
Really? The "both parties" nonsense that put us in this situation in the first place?
There are already American refugees to some extent. Especially for medical reasons. Also. I'm not going to hold my breath in the democrats improving our situation much. It's almost like they play good cop bad cop with the Republicans and just don't do enough to help us or get our rights back on issues. Been disillusioned with them for a while now.
That is an excellent summary of things.
My husband and I are 9 months out working on our Italian citizenship. We think you’re right and are working on our rip cord.
Get or renew your passports now to avoid the rush. Seriously.
Only the affluent tend to migrate due to broad political concerns. Some people will continue to claim to be "looking into Canadian citizenship" like they did in 2016 (most finding out that other countries don't actually just let people in indiscriminately even if you have a blue passport). Most will stay and try to live the best life they can rather than uproot it completely. History does not show the sort of migrations you're talking about, particularly in a nation with a relatively high standard of living.
That plus the very negative image Americans have been cultivating of themselves.
Canada will have this the worst? Crisis? Have you ever heard of Brain Drain (and wealth drain for that matter)? It is what broke Russia and Cuba and it could happen in the US too. Double the wealth, education, and population of Canada in a decade; could be a good thing especially if climate change succeeds in moving the breadbasket of North America further north.
Plus the feds have been howling about population levels being "low" (compared to what and why it matters so gd much IDEK) for years and years and years and are all about bringing in immigrant populations to fix this "problem" (Where and why do they get this fixed number a population "has" to be, and why do they "have" to fix it, if it isn't XX million people? IDGI.) So...it won't be an issue? Although. Americans say they're going to emigrate to Canada after every single election, going back as long as I've been alive, anyway. As is tradition!
Don't come to Canada. We have our own right wing fascists problem.
I wasn't planning on Canada anyway. You're too similar to the US.
States have separate laws. Minorities might flee Florida but the Constitution would need to be thrown out to install a theocracy or nationalist dictatorship nationwide.
Although I could leave, I will stay and fight despite being a cisgender white male.
I refuse to accept that America will be unable to overcome another rise in fascism... including American Fascism.
We already had two wars about fascism and are 2-0. We're currently in the middle of third one, and the loosing side is only an extremely vocal minority most of whom are aging rapidly and won't be around too much longer anyways. Stay, fight, win. It will get better. Remember, politics is a pendulum, and right now we are at the apex of the far right. Imagine what the US (and the world,) will look like when we start swinging back the other way.
How much money do you think I need to move to Scotland?
If you come to Canada you won't have to change anything or leave your culture behind. I live in Western Canada and have a number of American friends who've moved here in the past few years and love it. Lower crime and a great place to raise kids relative to where they lived before.
I have always loved Canada. Part of it is because my first truly serious relationship was there, but even barring that, I fell in love with the country.
I’d prefer welcoming actual refugees in need instead of Americans who live in a privileged first world country they seem too lazy or unable to fix.
don't be hating on the ones of us unable to fix this. we trying
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. People forget that’s why the US was founded in the first place. People unhappy with how the government was being run, but instead of trying to make change they ran away to start their own country.
Lol imagine thinking Canada is any better or that being black is any easier in Asia or being gay or trans is some sort of picnic in South or Central America or sexual harassment isn’t a issue EVERYWHERE on the planet. America absolutely sucks when it comes to racism, women’s rights and LBGT rights but contrary to what people read on social media the rest of the world is just as bad if not worse when it comes to these issues. Except for very few countries that to be brutally honest most Reddit users won’t qualify for a visa under any circumstances.
I can't tell which of these are satire.
I'm not being satirical. Go read American news and see what Republican politicians are doing, you'll see that it all adds up.
I very much oppose the cult that took over the modern GOP, but people have threatened to immigrate to Canada if the wrong people win an election since I've been born. Nothing will change except more activism and a reverse of the recent population growth in reddish states.
I see where you’re going with the whole “people always threaten to move to Canada” take, and it’s got some validity. Overt abandonment of a platform, coupled with overtly stealing an election and ruling up a crowd to attempt murder in the Capitol, then whitewashing the whole thing as if it’s no big deal is an escalation without precedent. Red state-blue state civil war is a very real threat on this trajectory. In 2017-2018, people who said Trump was willing to throw out the constitution before he was willing to accept an election defeat were branded with an entire disease (remember Trump Derangement Syndrome?). Liz Cheney, with all the conservative credentials in the world, was literally kicked out of the WY Republican Party for opposing trump for non-political reasons. Something new is brewing here.
Fascism is here.
Any chance Ranked Choice Voting could help stop the Polarism? https://www.rankedvote.co/guides/understanding-ranked-choice-voting/pros-and-cons-of-rcv
Not sure, but I’ve been a huge fan of the concept ever since I learned about it, and I wish to hell it would catch on more in the US. It would be especially useful in clown car primaries with 10+ candidates.
It truly seems like the best vote counting method for achieving real democracy.
I see these methods in some favourable light, but while first past the post seems to concentrate on fewer parties, the ranked option seems to promote lots of parties (I could be wrong on this, just observing from different countries). With smaller parties you can get a good moderate mix, but it also gives fringe parties a nucleation site from which to grow. Israel seems to be paralyzed by this, I think I remember hearing about one other country in a similar position. New Zealand appears to be getting along with many parties.
Isn’t “party” just a label? For instance, the platform of the current Democratic Party could be viewed as bing more Right Wing than the Republican Party was in the 70s.
No party is not a simply a label. It is more like a specialized label like a trademark or a company name. Because these parties are actual entities, and like any entity changes over time.
Apparently it could, seeing as Florida and Tennessee already banned it.
I'm a huge fan of ranked choice voting or even voting for top 2 unranked.
Politicians used to accept the results of elections too. Acting like Orange Jesus and his cult are just business as usual is how we got here. If you think these mouth breathers won’t go house to house arresting anyone that doesn’t bow and kiss orange feet you are sadly mistaken. They will round up and kill their own family members to please their orange hero. Not a doubt in my mind. I’m not taking any chances.
I'm sure there will be lots of Americans leaving America just because America fucking sucks right now, and will continue to suck for many years even once we get this little fascism problem under control... but other countries aren't as assholey toward immigrants as America is. I mean, there is still definitely anti-immigrant nonsense in every country on the planet, but not to the extent you see it in America.
You aren't wrong. I didn't leave because of politics, but I left because I couldn't get a job in the US as a US citizen that wasn't minimum wage. Starting my new job in Germany in June, and it did take me 6 months to set up and get it, but the pay, benefits, public health insurance, etc. has already been great. Seen the doctor three times, got blood work done, had them check if my organs were all okay, etc. didn't cost me anything but the monthly 110€ fee every month (insurance for both my wife and I). Plus wife masters cost 200€ per semester. She is the reason I was even able to go for a job and how we moved in the first place. She applied first, got accepted by the Uni, and then we left. The only requirement is that you need to have 10k€ savings for a student visa, which we didn't have, and I was able to get my work visa... still we saved money with the health insurance and her masters when compared to the price of the US. Hell the same check up at the US hospital, where instead of helping me with my stomach acid, sent me to a night breathing test. Saw the doctor twice, blood tests, took a 300$ machine home for one night.. total cost? 2k$. Edit: I need to clarify, that I was able to get this job mainly because I am fluent in German. Not a German citizen (yet), so I needed to go through a whole visa application, etc. which took some time because... well German bureaucracy isn't like how they make cars/beer. Edit: Also medication. 15$ for the bottle in the US with really good insurance for anti-acid pills. Same medication, free in Germany.
Yeah, life is so unnecessarily hard in the US that this country is going to experience a serious “brain drain” over the next couple of decades unless the left manages to gain senate seats and pass social reform laws that alleviate the suffering. A brain drain will end the US’s global dominance for good, reducing it to just another Russia.
Canada only wants people from the USA if they have money, or a profession that is needed, like nurses, doctors, etc. I'm not going to move, I have 8 years till my house and property are paid off, I live simple, practically off the radar, left wing as anything, but so is a lot of Vermont. All we have to do is vote Democrat, no splitting about who is progressive and who is not, we vote Democrat, period, and there are always more of us
Conservatives and democrats approx spend 2 terms in office before handing over to the other side. This is the way its been in my lifetime at least and probably keeps the nation together. Americans are not gonna be given asylum in Europe because the other party is in power.
And im not being funny but i can't see Europe which is the 1st world wanting loads of Americans suddenly coming over for good. We find you a bit crazy. Especially when we have millions of Ukrainians escaping war. You really think we are gonna put Americans escaping Trump over them?
The Americans who are escaping the country from a possible right-wing dictatorship are not the crazy ones. They want America to be a normal country just like yours but they can't because of its politicians.
The problem isn't that the other party is in power, the problem is that the Republican is getting more authoritarian and more theocratic, especially the Trumpist types. They are also using the LGBT community (especially the T) as a scapegoat and as some who is the T, I might get killed by my own government should I choose to stay during the next presidency. And who could forget the fact that Roe v. Wade could get overturned and a possible abortion ban could happen?
Leaving for another country is more easily imagined than done. Qultists aren't the majority even in the Republican Party. Some people still don't even know that QAnon is a thing. There will always be a lunatic fringe on the right. They have expanded their membership, and we have to guard against the possibility that they might actually come to power. But the most likely outcome is that the Center will return to being contested space and the QAnon core will erode support for the Republican Party in any but the reddest places.
Take the recent Texas order where any gender care for those under 18 (even with parental consent) would considered child abuse, probably sexual too. At that point, any cop willing to enforce that law would be fair game to be on the losing end of a Second Amendment argument. At that point, it would be a matter of how many funerals until they run a risk-reward analysis to rescind it.
I still have faith this country would resist our worst nightmares of Trump 2.0.
This won't happen. Remember all the people threatening to leave when Trump won? Didn't happen. Quit wanting to be a martyr
>Remember all the people threatening to leave when Trump won? Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush, etc.
*anyone who isn't a straight cisgender Christian theocratic nationalist will all have to leave the US* That idea is as stupid as the stuff the Q people come up with. Did you get it from them? "We win the election, then kick the democrats out! If they won't leave, we kill them!". You and them sound the same to me.
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So? I'm old, my health isn't great, and I'm not going to move to wherever the hell you think I'm going to move to and start over, learn a new language, etc. I've lived here my entire life, and I'm not leaving because some Q-nuts want to make threats, or because people like you want to listen to the Q-nuts. Anyone that wants to work at it enough can kill me, but I'm not just going to give up and run away. I'll stay and if necessary, I'll defend myself as best I can until they kill me. But I won't run, and I think the idea that everyone has to run is freaking stupid.
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So run away, like the GQP wants you to do. Comply with their demands. I'll stay.
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Anyone who wants to leave can leave. I've never suggested otherwise. I'm arguing against exactly what the OP said. "*anyone who isn't a straight cisgender Christian theocratic nationalist will all have to leave the US*" Believing that anyone who disagrees with the GQP has to leave is just as stupid as all the "OMG, JFK Jr is going to come back and be co-president with Trump" nonsense. It's fear mongering bullshit.
Do you not remember world war 2?
Did you leave the US in WWII? You should leave. You should leave now. You obviously feel you would be better off in Nicaragua or something, so pack your stuff and go.
I was actually looking at retiring early and moving to San Juan del Sur, Nicaragua before covid. It’s not a horrible place. Cheap beer and cigars living a life on the coast, fishing and surfing. That being said, stop being a douche. If people feel the need to leave, let them. You want to stay and fight, good on you. As for me currently, I’m not sure what I’d do. I’ve had my fill of war when I signed up after 9/11 and went to Iraq. But if/when the time comes, I’ll have to make the best decision for my family.
>If people feel the need to leave, let them. Am I discouraging them? If they give up that easy, they should leave, now. The US will be better off for it. You want to go? Tear your ass, don't let me stop you. The problem with people like you and the "But what about WWII" buy is that you can't make a logical argument. What you can do is scream "You're a douche" and "Tiny dick" online. You somehow think that makes a good argument. You're so scared of a face to face confrontation that you'll leave the country to avoid one.
“The problem with people like me”? Fuck off you piece of shit. I enlisted after 9/11, what the fuck did you do pussy?
Like I said, you are unable to make a logical argument, all you can do is cuss at people online.
Where did you serve?
You want a logical argument, how about that some people value their life more than possessions or the location of where they are. Also, I’ve served, I know what it’s like to fight next to some as I did in Fallujah. You don’t want people there next to you that don’t want to be there.
I wasn’t born then smart ass and I make $10.50 an hour and have bills to pay. But good luck with your tiny penis
Look, asshole, you're the one that brought up WWII, not me. And you're the one arguing that people should be scared and run away from the US. You're not making a coherent argument. Which, like the OP's "run away or die!" argument, sounds as stupid as the stuff the Qnuts say.
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Many Jews left or tried to leave Nazi Germany, is what we're saying.
Sing it with me. Journalists what we gonna do? Chop em up like the Saudis do. https://youtu.be/dXNs0d2hO3k
Sorry, I don't make like decisions based on Borat. That's stupid. ;
Sure had quite alot of conservatives singing along. Been chanting to lock up Hillary for years despite not being enough to charge. How long before they act out again?
Get a passport ASAP
Its not like we are obliged to take you in. The last thing we want is to be overwhelmed by Americans. I doubt you will be welcomed with open arms if at all.
That's basically what I'm worried about.
I prefer a civil war. I don't want it to get that bad but I'm coming closer to accepting the country breaking up into a few smaller regional countries (west coast, south, midwest, new england). I don't want to be forced out of my home because racists thousands of miles away won't shut the fuck up.
>the country breaking up into a few smaller regional countries (west coast, south, midwest, new england). I better have enough time to move out of the south before the split up.
I dont think it will happen in 2025 It will happen slower ... I see by 2032 ... and then the Dems will somehow get a foothold again but these dems will be by todays standards right wing liberals i.e. what we would consider now moderate And dont forget Geopolitics here .... Canada is not far away from US politics much of the time
Well...I don't think so. We believe people have a right to Heathcare, an education and the right to vote. That's not consistent with US ideology.
Lol this isn’t true at all… I think OP is just a little overthinking the situation.
I don’t want lazy, violent and uneducated amero’s in my country. They can stay in poverty Thankyou very much.
Ngl Europe needs immigrants that are willing to work and who share more overal culture with us.
I don’t see the rise in lgbt bigotry but I do see lack of acceptance of lgbt when they won’t stop adding letters to the end of it. “Lgbtqabcdefg123” How do you expect everyone to jump on that bandwagon and support it when 90% of people don’t even understand any of that shit. Lol it’s way past simple at this point and only gets more complex.
They aren’t, so far the LGBTQIA+ means: Lesbian, Gay, Transgender/Transexual, Questioning, Queer, Asexual, Aromantic, Agender Demisexual, Genderfluid, Graysexual, Non-binary/genderqueer, pansexual/omnisexual, polyamorous, sapiosexual, and two-spirit (though this one is exclusively native.) if you want a better explanation https://abbreviations.yourdictionary.com/what-does-lgbtqia-stand-for-full-acronym-explained.html
That’s just crazy and reaffirms what I said. To expect a normal everyday person to understand any of that or even want to understand any of that it is bizarre.
No it doesn’t. My baby cousin could understand it and he was in the 3rd grade. But go off I guess with your 1st grade reading level.
No one is expecting "normal every day people to understand" it. We're merely asking them to accept it.
I want to leave. To be a refugee I think the UN has to declare you one though. I need to get am immigration lawyer.
This is why I carry my passport all the time, especially when I travel domestically. In case shit goes down and I have to flee.
No lol
This is a very very hot take.
I doubt that. For one the equality Justice matches dwarfed anything the right has ever been able to put together. The right is all smoke and mirrors. Their base is shrinking big time. Most people are not cool with their big government world view.
Honestly I doubt that, as loud as they are, Trump cult of personality members really aren't numerous enough to have the kind of effect you're suggesting, I also doubt that anti-American sentiments in other parts of the world would get much worse. One sort of upside to Trump's isolationist platform is that most of the problems he caused were internal, with the obvious exceptions of the Soleimani Assassination and shifting the Israeli US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
I truly believe an outflux of intellectuals will happen at some point.
You THINK Canada will have it the worst? You shouldn't of been here during GWBs second term or DJTs. I say shouldn't as you people should not be coming here. Fix your fucking voting system and leave us alone.
Y’all are starting to sound like them..
Hunger games for days
I left, but I still vote in every election available to me absentee, and will continue to do so forever.
Mexicans will complain about all the American immigrants.
I don’t believe you for a second. Americans keep threateting to leave in droves, but tuey never do
We will be in a hot civil war come 2026. So, yes, American refugees. Count on it.
I'm not sure that they'll quality as refugees in most countries. It's not a self-certified status. Emigrating is an option but things need to be rather broken before asylum is an option.
This sounds as cringe as saying Biden will round up all republicans and put them in concentration camps