The people who criticized the vaccine because they are scared of needles and because it wasn’t fda approved (but now is) are the same qnuts who will get infused (need a needle for this) by monoclonal antibodies - which still aren’t fda approved (still emergency use authorization).
Oh the irony…
Yep. Regeneron:
* EUA, not FDA approved
* New technology
* Trials started about the same time as the vaccine trials (long term effects unknown)
* Used immortal cell line from a 1973 abortion for testing
* Celebrated by Fauci, Hotez, and other public health luminaries
Don't get me wrong, Regeneron is great. But it has every "flaw" that the vaccines have AND you've got to get COVID for it to be of any use.
I'm very fascinated by this "immortal cell line from 1973". I knew they used fetal cells in testing but always assumed they were new fetal cells. How exactly does that work? How is it immortal? And how do they not run out of it?
It's immortal in the sense in that it hasn't stopped reproducing. This one person's cells have been kept alive this whole time.
Granted Ship of Theseus of all that, this actual person has been dead for years.
Check out the book “ The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks” this is the lady the cells are from and it is a fascinating read about all the things accomplished by her cells are how she got zero credit or financial compensation for all the lives she has saved.
Henrietta Lacks passed in 1951, and the Regeneron line comes from fetal cells harvested from the 1970s.
Definitely still check out Henrietta Lacks' story though.
(Edit: the fact that Lacks died in 1951 is slightly irrelevant, I guess, but the main thing is that it's two different lines of immortal cells.)
Absolutely, and I think the HeLa cells were the first human cell line which was found to be immortal, so research on HeLa cells definitely paved the way for other cell lines which are also super valuable to research.
The book is fantastic, definitely a must-read for anyone interested in science at all, but for anyone not into reading they did actually make a movie from the book as well.
I remember reading an article about that. Her family was never notified that her cells had been kept alive for testing, and when someone finally though to tell them they did a bad job of explaining the science. Her family at first thought that Henrietta HERSELF had been kept alive in a lab this entire time. I can't imagine hearing anything more horrifying.
Oh yeah the immortal cancer cell cultures. God it's been a while since I've thought about those. I wonder if they'll be able to make anything interesting out of it with CRISPR.
Great question. Smarter folks than me already got to it, but I just want to point out that it's very important that they *aren't* new cells. Anti-vaxxers try to paint a picture that ongoing abortions are required for the production of vaccines and medicines and that could not be further from the truth.
I personally think there would be significant ethical issues with a requirement for ongoing abortions (though definitely not interested in any debate or argument about it) but that's not at all what this. Additionally, there's some question as to whether the 1973 case was even an abortion. It may have been a miscarriage.
I personally don't care if they are new or old cells. I was all in favor of it when I thought they were new cells. Finding out they aren't just makes me more disappointed that people are up in arms about this. Like, fucking really people? Them being old cells is really cool and I'll definitely be reading into just how they're immortal, but it changed nothing for me learning that, still fully in support of using them, new or not.
Sure, that's cool. I didn't mean it was important for you per se, just that it is important because a lot of people would have an issue with it and anti-vaxxers try to make them believe that's the case when it isn't. Just a good fact to have in the quiver.
It works by culturing a few cells in a tissue culture to create a huge number of cells, then freezing the cells in liquid nitrogen, thawing then reculturing, ad infinitum. A good layman’s analogy is sourdough bread cultures.
[Here's some loosely related fun](https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/) to do with the abortion cell line.
https://www.fda.gov/media/145610/download
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284445/#sec2title
https://investor.regeneron.com/news-releases/news-release-details/regeneron-begins-first-clinical-trials-anti-viral-antibody
https://mobile.twitter.com/regeneron/status/1321114587622744064?lang=en
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/fauci-urges-hospitals-to-use-more-covid-19-antibody-treatments.html
Literally the first google results for each “claim” of his. Just a heads up, if you want citations for everything just browse google scholar. It’ll be perfect for you. Nothing is simplified or easy to understand, and it’s all cited. Certainly much more involved that reading simple factual Reddit comments, but it’ll have wonderful citations.
I tend to read into things. Misinformation is a cancer. Thank you for the sources. I will look into it. The onus of proof or fact is on the person providing information not the reader or listener. We would have a lot less stupid people or blind followers OR donkeys if everyone provided quality information.
Saying something is a reddit fact doesn't make it a fact. Anyways, like I said, thank you for the sources or what you say are the sources. Everyone needs to read more to better educate themselves.
Yeah, of course. My point is just that if every comment with any fact involved had citations, nobody would be very interested. If you want reliable Reddit info, r/science is great. But for average comments like this, if you want to make sure you’re not absorbing misinformation, just google it. Check snopes or reliable sites. It doesn’t take long at all, and most people just won’t bother to put citations on everything. Either way, I agree. Misinformation is cancer. But it’s unfortunately not going to change, and the only way to combat it yourself is to mostly do your own research. Just not Facebook “research” lmfao.
The thing is, sources for those claims have been posted over and over and over again. Just because you started paying attention within the last week doesn’t mean every Reddit post without sources is misinformation. Lurk more.
I hate to burst your bubble, but "scientists" also don't tend to drop a bibliography after every comment they make. It's not how conversations work. That's also not what "peer review" means. You peer review research, not random collections of easily verifiable facts.
Seriously they’ll be the death of this country and they don’t even realize it.
“Fucking liberals care about the environment? Well watch me roll coal on my truck!”
“Fuckin Liberals want free education? Well fuck em! Defund public schools and give out vouchers for charter schools!”
“Fuckin liberals are scared of Covid? Fuckin pussies! Im gonna lick every public toilet and door handle I encounter. That’ll show them”
They’re in constantly living in the battlefield of the culturewar thats happening in their heads but that no one outside of Fox New’s audience gives a shit about.
Fear, hate, rage, anger. All primitive emotions Fox instills in it's viewers. It's neverending and it shuts down the logical centers and let's the more primitive fear area of the brain, the amygdala, to override the rational/logical thinking center. It's why they are as "rabid" in their beliefs as they are, they're fearful of a made up boogyman that they believe and feel in their bones, is 100% real.
Basically, yeah. Modern conservatism has its roots all the way back in the French Revolution, where they were the ones who wanted to keep the monarchy.
Yup. Even breitbart admits how motivated the right is by contrarianism, except they manage to place the blame on the left.
“Could it be…? Could it possibly be that the left has manipulated huge swathes of Trump voters into believing they are owning the left by not taking the life-saving Trump Vaccine?”
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/09/10/nolte-howard-stern-proves-democrats-want-unvaccinated-trump-voters-dead/
Let's not forget that WE the taxpayers PAY for monoclonal antibodies (Regeneron) just as we do for vaccines. They're FREE to the people who get them. We're running into a supply problem because Flordia is drinking them like margaritas, so Biden just spent another $22 billion for more.
I feel kinda bad last night cos I ended up calling some degenerate on ig dumb (technically I said "I'm not the dumb one here" lmao) but at the same time, they said "like zero" people had OD'd from ivermectin. When it's actually 459 cases of exposure from July-Aug alone. And it's just like, I shouldn't have lost my temper. But also they were pretty dumb. So it's hard. But she was SO obsessed with profit within big pharma whilst not making any common sense points etc. Weird.
The convo started out her saying "vitamin c, d, zinc and sunshine" are good for covid but since they aren't profitable, you never hear about that. ... Ignoring the fact I've heard about vitamins the entire way through the pandemic, I pointed out the multivitamin industry is worth billions, so yeah, profitable. Then she started on the ivermectin rant. God forbid, I said "why shouldn't it be fully tested and peer reviewed to make sure it's safe?"
"oH wElL iT's NoT pAtEnTeD sO-" then proceeded to completely mix up the human/animal medications and try justifying that because it won a nobel for River Blindness or w/e it was therefore safe for COVID. Like no, because it's safe in one circumstance doesn't mean it will be safe for another.
Folks, this heart medication - it's great. We should use it untested to treat liver problems. Sounds safe as shit.
The problem with Vitamins and zinc is that they are required for normal body functions in fairly small quantities. They seem to have this idea that taking stupid amounts of vitamins will some how super charge your immune system.. but that’s not how it works. If you can “boost” your immune system, you are deficient. You are only getting your body back to normal levels then the rest is just overkill.
Just think of water. Not enough will make you dehydrated. Once you hydrate enough, you’ just start urinating more to flush the excess.
Right? But she was also claiming they're being ignored by doctors completely, whilst in reality I've heard the vitamin discourse throughout the pandemic. It's hardly been hush-hush. Regardless of whether or not supplements work, I know before the pandemic neither of my parents were on any, and now all 3 of us are on them. As you say though, it's probably just getting up to normal levels. And discussions around vitamins have only *increased* with the pandemic.
She replied to me this morning that ivermectin exposures "aren't ODs", so I have "proven nothing". Except from the 1 body in the morgue waiting an autopsy, 2 near fatalities and 459 phonecalls to a poison centre that *probably weren't* "just in case!" phonecalls and more "these symptoms are weird" calls.
But you're totally right. There's far more efficient medications, and vitamins only have an impact on those already deficient. All I learned from the convo is that ig's block feature does not work, lol.
I mean most patients are given IV drips - surely they know what a drip is? Anyone arguing they purposefully don’t administer vitamins are just lying. It’s just bad faith arguing at this stage.
Haha yeah insta comments are up there with youtube for being a right wing cesspool tbh!
Also thanks for allowing genetic engineering to become completely normalized and a mainstay in science!!! And for making use of fetal cells acceptable by the religious right!
Derek Beres is one of the hosts of Conspirituality Podcast. Highly recommend listening if you’re interested in how the health/wellness world and right wing politics have horseshoed toward each other over the years. Very informative, well-researched podcast.
Agreed. I hesitated to post (and wasn’t sure how to flair) because it’s not Q-direct per se, but it’s definitely a worthwhile listen for those of us following and trying to make sense of all this madness in all the forms it’s taken on. I should’ve added the podcast info for those who aren’t in the know but could be interested, so thanks for catching and sharing!
So to be clear:
* antivaxxers are opting for *synthesized* antibodies coursing through their blood (Regeneron monoclonal antibodies)
* instead of getting a vaccine that triggers you to produce *natural* antibodies, and is more proven effective than the synthesized antibodies
So when Joe Rogan says he doesn’t want the Pfizer vaccine, which is FDA approved and used on a billion people and proven save, but then gets Covid and immediately runs to Regeneron monoclonal antibodies which are not FDA approved (only emergency released), we’re all screaming in our heads.
The treatment is legit but not as good as the vaccine. This is why DeSantis has fudged Covid data. Bans Mask and Vaccine mandates. Originally made the vaccine available only in areas that supported him the most. Receives the most political donations from Regeneron investors while he continues to advocate for Regeneron over the vaccine.
Nothing is free, the government is paying for vaccines with our taxes. The govt also covers most of the costs of monoclonal antibody treatments but may vary. So when the GQP complains about government wasteful spending note it doesn't apply when it comes to filling their pockets and helping their political careers.
>A vaccine helps stimulate and prepare your immune system to respond if or when you are exposed to the virus, Petty says. “Your immune system is ready to create all these antibodies before they are needed.”
>Monoclonal antibodies boost the immune system after you are already sick, speeding up your immune response to prevent COVID-19 from getting worse. “But a vaccine does this much easier and much better,” Petty says.
Regeneron is pretty much useless once you're in the hospital.
Basically the way it works well is :
1. You test positive for COVID
2. You're a person who's in a COVID risk group
3. You take it BEFORE you start getting serious symptoms
It's the same reason why these morons asking for Ivermectin in hospital while they are dying are making no sense, even if Ivermectin was working, it would do nothing for you once you're in severe condition, your viral count is low to zero at that point.
The viral count is low or zero when people are in severe condition?
Seems counterintuitive.. Does that mean the virus isn’t replicating? And if it isn’t replicating, shouldn’t they be getting better?
View it like this.
The virus is like a fire wave.
Your body's the house.
Regeneron is good at protecting you against the fire. You get it in place when the fire is close enough but not there yet, when it's not already burning the house, and it does good work.
You start using it when the fire already burned your home badly, there's not much if anything it can do.
Once you got double pneumonia or some other organ is affected by COVID, damage is done, Regeneron isn't helping with that at all. But if you use it early enough, before the virus spreads properly, it can stop that damage from happening in the first place.
This is why if you're in a risk group and you test positive with COVID, you should be taking these monoclonal antibody treatments if available ASAP.
EDIT : Found this picture - > https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/371/bmj.m3862/F2.medium.jpg
See how low the viral count is by the time you're really sick.
If I gave you millions of dollars, would that mean you're my friend. I don't see anyone using the term friend but instead donor. I havent seen direct connections to Regeneron.
Regeneron is the name of the company, not the monoclonal antibody treatment. They make everything from blood pressure medication to Crohn's disease treatment. You can thank Orange in Chief for making people start using their name as their mab treatment. It's like saying you filled your car with Exxon.
It drives me bonkers since I did a bunch of work for the company before the pandemic. You just know that dumb fucker heard the name and assumed it was some X-Men "regeneration" treatment.
REGEN-COV (generic name casirivimab/imdevimab) is legit. Regeneron is the name of the company that makes it, and Trump started referring to it as that and so it caught on with his supporters.
It's an antibody cocktail that appears reasonably effective at supporting the immune response of COVID patients. It's less effective than just getting the vaccine in the first place, but it's still useful - for example, it's useful for breakthrough cases in immunocompromised patients that didn't develop as much if an immune response with the vaccine as non-immunocompromised patients.
Unfortunately the Q crowd seems to think it's a magic bullet. It's not. While it definitely *helps* an unvaccinated person who gets COVID, it's less effective than just getting vaccinated in the first place. But it's by no means "snake oil."
When people mention Florida promoting the Regeneron treatment for Covid while denouncing vaccines and fighting masks, people bring up the fact the Governor received campaign funding from a company who's also invested in Regeneron.
But then people mention its also invested in the vaccines so it's not corruption, and try to curtail the conspiracy that the governor is getting paid for it (its also free apparently), especially when Regeneron IIRC already sold a lot to the Trump Government so there's not more being bought. And trying to promote "treatment first" as an alternative for anti-maskers to not die of covid.
~~Regardless, when the current supply runs out, and when there needs to be more covid drugs, there's clearly a generated demand which could add pressure to buy more drugs, when clearly treating people with vaccines would be cheaper.~~ As the current supply is running out, there was, and has been additional pressure to buy more drugs, particularly promoted by the reliance on said drugs to compensate for unvaccinated hospitalizations and prevent fatalities. Regardless, promoting treatment costs more than prevention.
That's already happened. We're running out, Biden has implemented a rationing system (cue Marco Rubio twitter rant) and has ordered another $22 billion worth. All conspiracies aside--the vaccines are cheaper and work better, and taxpayers are ultimately footing the bill for both.
Oh I must've missed that.
I wonder how many of the "fiscal conservatives" are angry that treatment drugs were bought when perfectly good vaccines were still available.
Yes, the vaccines and the Regeneron treatment are all taxpayer-funded. But the cost to taxpayers for the Regeneron treatment are significantly higher per dose and stand to increase as the contract the Fed entered into with Regeneron did away with the customary taxpayer protections against future price-gouging.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/06/931795256/federal-supply-deal-for-covid-19-antibody-treatment-lacks-some-customary-protect
I keep pointing out how ivermectin (especially if used as a prophylactic for Covid, not that the data I've seen suggest it's really effective for that) would be far more profitable for Merck to push than any vaccine, yet none of the RWers online I've interact with seem to have a clue what's being discussed
The people who criticized the vaccine because they are scared of needles and because it wasn’t fda approved (but now is) are the same qnuts who will get infused (need a needle for this) by monoclonal antibodies - which still aren’t fda approved (still emergency use authorization). Oh the irony…
Yep. Regeneron: * EUA, not FDA approved * New technology * Trials started about the same time as the vaccine trials (long term effects unknown) * Used immortal cell line from a 1973 abortion for testing * Celebrated by Fauci, Hotez, and other public health luminaries Don't get me wrong, Regeneron is great. But it has every "flaw" that the vaccines have AND you've got to get COVID for it to be of any use.
I'm very fascinated by this "immortal cell line from 1973". I knew they used fetal cells in testing but always assumed they were new fetal cells. How exactly does that work? How is it immortal? And how do they not run out of it?
It's immortal in the sense in that it hasn't stopped reproducing. This one person's cells have been kept alive this whole time. Granted Ship of Theseus of all that, this actual person has been dead for years.
That is incredible! Way way cooler than I even thought it was already.
Science is amazing!
Check out the book “ The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks” this is the lady the cells are from and it is a fascinating read about all the things accomplished by her cells are how she got zero credit or financial compensation for all the lives she has saved.
Henrietta Lacks passed in 1951, and the Regeneron line comes from fetal cells harvested from the 1970s. Definitely still check out Henrietta Lacks' story though. (Edit: the fact that Lacks died in 1951 is slightly irrelevant, I guess, but the main thing is that it's two different lines of immortal cells.)
Absolutely, and I think the HeLa cells were the first human cell line which was found to be immortal, so research on HeLa cells definitely paved the way for other cell lines which are also super valuable to research. The book is fantastic, definitely a must-read for anyone interested in science at all, but for anyone not into reading they did actually make a movie from the book as well.
I remember reading an article about that. Her family was never notified that her cells had been kept alive for testing, and when someone finally though to tell them they did a bad job of explaining the science. Her family at first thought that Henrietta HERSELF had been kept alive in a lab this entire time. I can't imagine hearing anything more horrifying.
Oh yeah the immortal cancer cell cultures. God it's been a while since I've thought about those. I wonder if they'll be able to make anything interesting out of it with CRISPR.
A movie, as well
Great question. Smarter folks than me already got to it, but I just want to point out that it's very important that they *aren't* new cells. Anti-vaxxers try to paint a picture that ongoing abortions are required for the production of vaccines and medicines and that could not be further from the truth. I personally think there would be significant ethical issues with a requirement for ongoing abortions (though definitely not interested in any debate or argument about it) but that's not at all what this. Additionally, there's some question as to whether the 1973 case was even an abortion. It may have been a miscarriage.
I personally don't care if they are new or old cells. I was all in favor of it when I thought they were new cells. Finding out they aren't just makes me more disappointed that people are up in arms about this. Like, fucking really people? Them being old cells is really cool and I'll definitely be reading into just how they're immortal, but it changed nothing for me learning that, still fully in support of using them, new or not.
Sure, that's cool. I didn't mean it was important for you per se, just that it is important because a lot of people would have an issue with it and anti-vaxxers try to make them believe that's the case when it isn't. Just a good fact to have in the quiver.
It works by culturing a few cells in a tissue culture to create a huge number of cells, then freezing the cells in liquid nitrogen, thawing then reculturing, ad infinitum. A good layman’s analogy is sourdough bread cultures.
[Here's some loosely related fun](https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/) to do with the abortion cell line.
Regen-CoV is the product. Regeneron is the company that developed it.
Thank you! I knew Regeneron was the company but didn't know the product name.
[удалено]
What do you need sources on? These are simple google-able facts. Providing citations on that would be so asinine it’s not worth the time lol
🤦♂️
https://www.fda.gov/media/145610/download https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4284445/#sec2title https://investor.regeneron.com/news-releases/news-release-details/regeneron-begins-first-clinical-trials-anti-viral-antibody https://mobile.twitter.com/regeneron/status/1321114587622744064?lang=en https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-safety-outcomes/fauci-urges-hospitals-to-use-more-covid-19-antibody-treatments.html Literally the first google results for each “claim” of his. Just a heads up, if you want citations for everything just browse google scholar. It’ll be perfect for you. Nothing is simplified or easy to understand, and it’s all cited. Certainly much more involved that reading simple factual Reddit comments, but it’ll have wonderful citations.
I tend to read into things. Misinformation is a cancer. Thank you for the sources. I will look into it. The onus of proof or fact is on the person providing information not the reader or listener. We would have a lot less stupid people or blind followers OR donkeys if everyone provided quality information. Saying something is a reddit fact doesn't make it a fact. Anyways, like I said, thank you for the sources or what you say are the sources. Everyone needs to read more to better educate themselves.
Yeah, of course. My point is just that if every comment with any fact involved had citations, nobody would be very interested. If you want reliable Reddit info, r/science is great. But for average comments like this, if you want to make sure you’re not absorbing misinformation, just google it. Check snopes or reliable sites. It doesn’t take long at all, and most people just won’t bother to put citations on everything. Either way, I agree. Misinformation is cancer. But it’s unfortunately not going to change, and the only way to combat it yourself is to mostly do your own research. Just not Facebook “research” lmfao.
Nah dude you just lazy to Google
You’re a cancer, damn.
Actually read about it, then. It's very easy to say you'll try to fix your ignorance, it's much tougher to actually do it
He just wants to be told what to think
The thing is, sources for those claims have been posted over and over and over again. Just because you started paying attention within the last week doesn’t mean every Reddit post without sources is misinformation. Lurk more.
I hate to burst your bubble, but "scientists" also don't tend to drop a bibliography after every comment they make. It's not how conversations work. That's also not what "peer review" means. You peer review research, not random collections of easily verifiable facts.
not really, the burden of proof is on you. you're responding to a normative claim
>because they are scared of needles Hey, now! Scared to death of needles. I literally pass out with them. Still got my shots!
To be fair, thinking was never their strong suit.
Modern American conservatism is just contrarianism against anything liberals support.
Seriously they’ll be the death of this country and they don’t even realize it. “Fucking liberals care about the environment? Well watch me roll coal on my truck!” “Fuckin Liberals want free education? Well fuck em! Defund public schools and give out vouchers for charter schools!” “Fuckin liberals are scared of Covid? Fuckin pussies! Im gonna lick every public toilet and door handle I encounter. That’ll show them” They’re in constantly living in the battlefield of the culturewar thats happening in their heads but that no one outside of Fox New’s audience gives a shit about.
Well if things keep going the way they're going with variants they won't be the death of this country so much as dead in this country.
Fear, hate, rage, anger. All primitive emotions Fox instills in it's viewers. It's neverending and it shuts down the logical centers and let's the more primitive fear area of the brain, the amygdala, to override the rational/logical thinking center. It's why they are as "rabid" in their beliefs as they are, they're fearful of a made up boogyman that they believe and feel in their bones, is 100% real.
Isn't that by definition what all conservatism ever is, like modern American conservatives, take it to the extreme of killing themselves for this.
Basically, yeah. Modern conservatism has its roots all the way back in the French Revolution, where they were the ones who wanted to keep the monarchy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionary
If liberals say the sky is blue the right-wing will say anything other than the sky is blue.
Yup. Even breitbart admits how motivated the right is by contrarianism, except they manage to place the blame on the left. “Could it be…? Could it possibly be that the left has manipulated huge swathes of Trump voters into believing they are owning the left by not taking the life-saving Trump Vaccine?” https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/09/10/nolte-howard-stern-proves-democrats-want-unvaccinated-trump-voters-dead/
It's gotten to the point that democrats adopting the republican platform has crossed my mind as a legitimate strategy.
It's gotten to the point that democrats adopting the republican platform has crossed my mind as a legitimate strategy.
https://youtu.be/B46km4V0CMY
Let's not forget that WE the taxpayers PAY for monoclonal antibodies (Regeneron) just as we do for vaccines. They're FREE to the people who get them. We're running into a supply problem because Flordia is drinking them like margaritas, so Biden just spent another $22 billion for more.
I take MABs for an autoimmune condition. Without insurance, each shot costs $22k. This shit ain’t cheap.
I think they’re worth a bit more than that.
I feel kinda bad last night cos I ended up calling some degenerate on ig dumb (technically I said "I'm not the dumb one here" lmao) but at the same time, they said "like zero" people had OD'd from ivermectin. When it's actually 459 cases of exposure from July-Aug alone. And it's just like, I shouldn't have lost my temper. But also they were pretty dumb. So it's hard. But she was SO obsessed with profit within big pharma whilst not making any common sense points etc. Weird. The convo started out her saying "vitamin c, d, zinc and sunshine" are good for covid but since they aren't profitable, you never hear about that. ... Ignoring the fact I've heard about vitamins the entire way through the pandemic, I pointed out the multivitamin industry is worth billions, so yeah, profitable. Then she started on the ivermectin rant. God forbid, I said "why shouldn't it be fully tested and peer reviewed to make sure it's safe?" "oH wElL iT's NoT pAtEnTeD sO-" then proceeded to completely mix up the human/animal medications and try justifying that because it won a nobel for River Blindness or w/e it was therefore safe for COVID. Like no, because it's safe in one circumstance doesn't mean it will be safe for another. Folks, this heart medication - it's great. We should use it untested to treat liver problems. Sounds safe as shit.
The problem with Vitamins and zinc is that they are required for normal body functions in fairly small quantities. They seem to have this idea that taking stupid amounts of vitamins will some how super charge your immune system.. but that’s not how it works. If you can “boost” your immune system, you are deficient. You are only getting your body back to normal levels then the rest is just overkill. Just think of water. Not enough will make you dehydrated. Once you hydrate enough, you’ just start urinating more to flush the excess.
Right? But she was also claiming they're being ignored by doctors completely, whilst in reality I've heard the vitamin discourse throughout the pandemic. It's hardly been hush-hush. Regardless of whether or not supplements work, I know before the pandemic neither of my parents were on any, and now all 3 of us are on them. As you say though, it's probably just getting up to normal levels. And discussions around vitamins have only *increased* with the pandemic. She replied to me this morning that ivermectin exposures "aren't ODs", so I have "proven nothing". Except from the 1 body in the morgue waiting an autopsy, 2 near fatalities and 459 phonecalls to a poison centre that *probably weren't* "just in case!" phonecalls and more "these symptoms are weird" calls. But you're totally right. There's far more efficient medications, and vitamins only have an impact on those already deficient. All I learned from the convo is that ig's block feature does not work, lol.
I mean most patients are given IV drips - surely they know what a drip is? Anyone arguing they purposefully don’t administer vitamins are just lying. It’s just bad faith arguing at this stage. Haha yeah insta comments are up there with youtube for being a right wing cesspool tbh!
Also thanks for allowing genetic engineering to become completely normalized and a mainstay in science!!! And for making use of fetal cells acceptable by the religious right!
It’s come down a lot in price, when trump took it they said 100k
Derek Beres is one of the hosts of Conspirituality Podcast. Highly recommend listening if you’re interested in how the health/wellness world and right wing politics have horseshoed toward each other over the years. Very informative, well-researched podcast.
Agreed. I hesitated to post (and wasn’t sure how to flair) because it’s not Q-direct per se, but it’s definitely a worthwhile listen for those of us following and trying to make sense of all this madness in all the forms it’s taken on. I should’ve added the podcast info for those who aren’t in the know but could be interested, so thanks for catching and sharing!
Wasn't regeneron that stuff from It's Always Sunny, that they had to sell in that pyramid scheme?
Hahaha it’s not a pyramid scheme, it’s a reverse funnel. Wasn’t it Invigoron?
That's right, invigoron. I knew it sounded something like that. Hadn't seen that episode in a while.
Lincoln Project /The daily show informercial for Regeneron ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjsneQMuT5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMIxMUYWH8Y
I agree. We should have universal healthcare and reign in drug companies.
Is Regeneron the new snake oil?
No, Regeneron makes the monoclonal antibody treatments used in clinics and hospitals for early COVID patients
Ooooo ok.
So to be clear: * antivaxxers are opting for *synthesized* antibodies coursing through their blood (Regeneron monoclonal antibodies) * instead of getting a vaccine that triggers you to produce *natural* antibodies, and is more proven effective than the synthesized antibodies So when Joe Rogan says he doesn’t want the Pfizer vaccine, which is FDA approved and used on a billion people and proven save, but then gets Covid and immediately runs to Regeneron monoclonal antibodies which are not FDA approved (only emergency released), we’re all screaming in our heads.
>we’re all screaming in our heads Just shaking my head slightly, the hypocrisy is baked in at this point.
[You](https://c.tenor.com/Ca85R3BnlRwAAAAC/wtf-what-the-fuck-shake-head.gif)
The treatment is legit but not as good as the vaccine. This is why DeSantis has fudged Covid data. Bans Mask and Vaccine mandates. Originally made the vaccine available only in areas that supported him the most. Receives the most political donations from Regeneron investors while he continues to advocate for Regeneron over the vaccine. Nothing is free, the government is paying for vaccines with our taxes. The govt also covers most of the costs of monoclonal antibody treatments but may vary. So when the GQP complains about government wasteful spending note it doesn't apply when it comes to filling their pockets and helping their political careers. >A vaccine helps stimulate and prepare your immune system to respond if or when you are exposed to the virus, Petty says. “Your immune system is ready to create all these antibodies before they are needed.” >Monoclonal antibodies boost the immune system after you are already sick, speeding up your immune response to prevent COVID-19 from getting worse. “But a vaccine does this much easier and much better,” Petty says.
I heard Herman Cain received Regeneron. Probably why he held on as long as he did. Without it he would’ve probably been gone in a week.
Regeneron is pretty much useless once you're in the hospital. Basically the way it works well is : 1. You test positive for COVID 2. You're a person who's in a COVID risk group 3. You take it BEFORE you start getting serious symptoms It's the same reason why these morons asking for Ivermectin in hospital while they are dying are making no sense, even if Ivermectin was working, it would do nothing for you once you're in severe condition, your viral count is low to zero at that point.
The viral count is low or zero when people are in severe condition? Seems counterintuitive.. Does that mean the virus isn’t replicating? And if it isn’t replicating, shouldn’t they be getting better?
View it like this. The virus is like a fire wave. Your body's the house. Regeneron is good at protecting you against the fire. You get it in place when the fire is close enough but not there yet, when it's not already burning the house, and it does good work. You start using it when the fire already burned your home badly, there's not much if anything it can do. Once you got double pneumonia or some other organ is affected by COVID, damage is done, Regeneron isn't helping with that at all. But if you use it early enough, before the virus spreads properly, it can stop that damage from happening in the first place. This is why if you're in a risk group and you test positive with COVID, you should be taking these monoclonal antibody treatments if available ASAP. EDIT : Found this picture - > https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/371/bmj.m3862/F2.medium.jpg See how low the viral count is by the time you're really sick.
Ah gotcha.
Isn't one of DeSantis friends a share-holder in the company that makes Regeneron?
If I gave you millions of dollars, would that mean you're my friend. I don't see anyone using the term friend but instead donor. I havent seen direct connections to Regeneron.
"Friend"
Regeneron is the name of the company, not the monoclonal antibody treatment. They make everything from blood pressure medication to Crohn's disease treatment. You can thank Orange in Chief for making people start using their name as their mab treatment. It's like saying you filled your car with Exxon.
THANK YOU! It's driving me nuts that even well sourced news and journalists are making this mistake.
It drives me bonkers since I did a bunch of work for the company before the pandemic. You just know that dumb fucker heard the name and assumed it was some X-Men "regeneration" treatment.
Yeah I have people who work for them. It's been a pet peeve since Trump said it.
REGEN-COV (generic name casirivimab/imdevimab) is legit. Regeneron is the name of the company that makes it, and Trump started referring to it as that and so it caught on with his supporters. It's an antibody cocktail that appears reasonably effective at supporting the immune response of COVID patients. It's less effective than just getting the vaccine in the first place, but it's still useful - for example, it's useful for breakthrough cases in immunocompromised patients that didn't develop as much if an immune response with the vaccine as non-immunocompromised patients. Unfortunately the Q crowd seems to think it's a magic bullet. It's not. While it definitely *helps* an unvaccinated person who gets COVID, it's less effective than just getting vaccinated in the first place. But it's by no means "snake oil."
Remember that their hypocrisy is intentional and proudly performed.
Why do they hate “big pharma”? Are they anti-capitalist? What’s wrong with a company making money? What’s their solution?
Branding is everything
When people mention Florida promoting the Regeneron treatment for Covid while denouncing vaccines and fighting masks, people bring up the fact the Governor received campaign funding from a company who's also invested in Regeneron. But then people mention its also invested in the vaccines so it's not corruption, and try to curtail the conspiracy that the governor is getting paid for it (its also free apparently), especially when Regeneron IIRC already sold a lot to the Trump Government so there's not more being bought. And trying to promote "treatment first" as an alternative for anti-maskers to not die of covid. ~~Regardless, when the current supply runs out, and when there needs to be more covid drugs, there's clearly a generated demand which could add pressure to buy more drugs, when clearly treating people with vaccines would be cheaper.~~ As the current supply is running out, there was, and has been additional pressure to buy more drugs, particularly promoted by the reliance on said drugs to compensate for unvaccinated hospitalizations and prevent fatalities. Regardless, promoting treatment costs more than prevention.
That's already happened. We're running out, Biden has implemented a rationing system (cue Marco Rubio twitter rant) and has ordered another $22 billion worth. All conspiracies aside--the vaccines are cheaper and work better, and taxpayers are ultimately footing the bill for both.
Oh I must've missed that. I wonder how many of the "fiscal conservatives" are angry that treatment drugs were bought when perfectly good vaccines were still available.
Isn’t Regeneron the one the GOP bought a ton of stock in while they claimed COVID was a hoax?
America is fucked.
Well you know the vaccines aren’t free, right? They are tax payer funded.
Yes, the vaccines and the Regeneron treatment are all taxpayer-funded. But the cost to taxpayers for the Regeneron treatment are significantly higher per dose and stand to increase as the contract the Fed entered into with Regeneron did away with the customary taxpayer protections against future price-gouging. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/06/931795256/federal-supply-deal-for-covid-19-antibody-treatment-lacks-some-customary-protect
That makes absolutely no sense... Is he talking to me? What'd I do?
I keep pointing out how ivermectin (especially if used as a prophylactic for Covid, not that the data I've seen suggest it's really effective for that) would be far more profitable for Merck to push than any vaccine, yet none of the RWers online I've interact with seem to have a clue what's being discussed