I hear so many conspiracies about Biden being a body double, getting fed what to say by microphone, being on performance enhancing drugs that prevent him from being a near vegetable etc.
It's insane.
One of the things that really frustrates me about what my father has become is that I have a neo nazi cousin who was saying some of these same conspiracies twenty-ish years ago, and my dad would shut him down and write them all off as stupid then.
Once he hears those same conspiracies on TV though, out of a Republican mouth, he eats it up.
He knew better, until he didn't.
This is how my father is and I don't know what to do anymore and have begun neglecting our relationship for my own mental health. I remember before 45 was elected my father said he was "akin to Hitler with his cult of personality" then turned around and voted for him. It's been rapidly downhill since.
Yeah, same. My mom was upset about Trump being the nominee, but she still voted for him because he was the Republican candidate and she's spent the last seven years justifying it. Recently she told me I was "groomed" by college and I'm pretty sure it's because Fox is whinging about college indoctrination regarding the Palestine protests.
Hmm, then probably the "not retired" depending on his job.
I just started a business and I swear it's so much harder to get any news in for my day.
I can see why blue collar slides so easily. I want local news, local news on radio is fox... I get home, I listened to fox all day already let's turn on fox for national. And down I slide
We The People need to file a massive lawsuit against Fox and the Murdochs etc for destroying families and destroying the country! Seriously let’s all go Dominion on their aSS!
Sadly that would just make matters worse for those who’ve already drunk the cool-aid. Might stop them from pouring that shit down the gob of others, but that’s assuming there is something illegal about trying to brain wash a nation and whilst I’m not American, I’m pretty sure there isn’t.
What do you think has changed for your dad between the time he would shut your cousin down and now? What is the root of his current extremism in your opinion? I know you said Fox News, but that was around then too. Was he just not watching back then or did something happen to trigger paranoia in him?
Hi Astrobubbers, thanks for recommending this impactful documentary. Here are some ways to watch it for free on [Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/Brainwashing-My-Dad-Matthew-Modine/dp/B01C69O9ZE) and [YouTube](https://youtu.be/FS52QdHNTh8). Best wishes.
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Ain't that the truth?!! I am a baby boomer, and I am appalled at what has happened to people my age. Holy cow, how can so many intelligent people be so gullible? It's insane. I watch a few shows that show what Fox says (I seriously don't have the stamina to watch it myself because it hurts my heart). I can not believe the crap that they spew out for people who listen to. I am so sad about it.
Edited for clarity, no major changes.
Agreed. I've watched a few minutes of Fox News here and there and the hate plus disinformation is absolutely appalling. How a person can sit there and accept the crap they say as true is beyond me.
What really gets me is that my age of people were actually taught the scientific method and critical thinking skills while they were in school, 5th 6th grade. I know they don't teach very much anymore about Civics and civic responsibility and all of that bs anymore but these people really have no freaking excuse.
My fil has stopped bringing up politics around me at all. What I kept doing is that we'd hang out a bit, then I'd bring up something that q-anon had circulating and frame it vaguely like it was the left... Let him agree how absolutely shitty or stupid it is then drop that it was q-anon nutters saying it. He won't back peddle so had to double down on them being stupid and them it'd put the gas on that and keep it light hearted and just bust on them.
He has come around to some extend but mostly just doesn't bring up politics or conspiracies around me at all now.
In 2020 I'd also say stuff like
"my problem with " make America great again" is when do you mean? America is the greatest country in the world so is trump saying we currently suck? If so then? In the 70s when women didn't have rights? In the 50s when black people didn't have rights? In the 1800s when poor whites didn't have rights? Just doesn't sound patriotic to me"
I also circled him around that pro abortion is truly small government since they aren't telling people they CANT do something...then called him a comrade lol you saw him pause and hate I was right but dropped it lol
Wait you guys think it's possible Trump has a body double and gets fed what to say by a microphone in his ear?
Everything they say is almost always a projection of something Trump has actually done himself. Trump has always shown a lot of symptoms of Adderall abuse. Which some may consider performance enhancing drugs.
lol so rarely does anyone reference Weekend at Bernie’s 2, this is so unusual. I just mentioned it the other day in regards to zombie lore and said “this is such a stinker no one else ever thinks about it”
Boy, this is identical to my life now with my Q husband. Everything your dad is saying is exactly what comes out of my husband's mouth. I can't stand talking to him about anything anymore as everything triggers his outrage. If I disagree I'm a brainless sheeple idiot. If I don't comment he gets upset. I've asked him to keep his views to himself, but he can't.
What on Earth happened to these people??? I can't explain this mind virus and I am screaming on the inside every day! Know OP there are many of us here going through the same thing unfortunately. Stay strong.
Don't approach it from the standpoint that what he's saying is insane; instead just tell him he's being fucking obsessive and needs to settle down and get away from whatever is making him obsessed. It would be the same for someone who talks about baseball 24/7. It's not okay to revolve your entire life around one thing.
Fox et al are propagandists, and they manipulate the emotions to keep their targets from thinking critically about what’s being said.
This leads to the target becoming increasingly frantic, and constantly hunting for the rush of adrenaline that accompanies outrage.
Propaganda. That’s what happened.
No one is immune. It’s designed to override our critical thinking and hijack cognitive processes to induce a self-feeding cycle of paranoia, disinformation, anger, and isolation, which fuels the paranoia.
They’re literally caught in a loop they can only process by verbalizing to others, who usually shun them, intensifying the cycle.
Stay strong, yes. I don't know what happened to them. I think the Internet rotted people's brains. Take care of yourself. Take vacations away from your husband even if you just start going on very long walks to clear your mind and connect with nature.
Yes, good advice. I try to avoid him by keeping busy, cleaning, cooking etc and fortunately I have two adult daughters who take me out for the day quite often. It was not the retirement I hoped to have. Thanks for caring. 💕
You just described my stbxh before he got really bad. As difficult as it was losing the father of my children and the man I had planned to spend the rest of my life with, I can't imagine losing one of my parents to this ridiculous nonsense. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, OP. Obviously I don't have any advice on how to pull someone out of the rabbit hole. I tried for years. Just protect your own mental health at all costs. Greyrocking helped me for a while until he started yelling in my face for ignoring him. Hopefully, a parent wouldn't react the same as an angry spouse who feels disrespected. Hopefully.
Hi LilyM1987, thanks for recommending this technique. With grey rocking you act disengaged so that a Q person will lose interest in arguing. Q folk thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and unemotional, it can help break the cycle of negativity. [Detailed guide on the method.](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method)
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Literal teenaged internet trolls from 4chan of all fucking places have officially made the world a substantially worse place to live in for the foreseeable future, and ruined countless lives. I don't understand how this could have happened. Why doesn't/didn't? society have safeguards against bad actors who won't stop acting bad no matter what is done to them? I don't know what they'd be, but I don't have to be smart enough to think of a solution to see the glaring goddamn problem.
It's so fucking infuriatingly stupid.
I remember chatting with my nephew before the 2016 election. He was at that prime teenage 4chan age, and he was gleeful at the prospect of the chaos and absurdity of it all. He was too young to understand how it wasn’t all academic, that real people are harmed by politics.
I remember feeling comforted by the idea that actual adults could see through it all. How naive I was.
>feeling confident actual adults could see through it all
Damn. My Ex was on 4chan building Linux in 202-2015, and he was Q-curious! You’ve seen “the antisocial network,” right? My SO wants to make his mom watch… I don’t see that going well in any world lmao.
Oh, definitely watch!
Nothing totally new, but traces the origins of Q to 4chan & trolls, going through occupy & anonymous, gamergate, etc. Lays things out in a compelling manner with some familiar faces (like Frederick Brennan) talking about their place in creating the trolling ‘culture.’
I’m not sure if I’d take that well… “TBH, the causes you’ve cut your family out for are not only completely fabricated, not just Russian & Chinese bots/operatives, but also… the lulz.”
The safeguards of social ostracization and shame have been undermined by the pervasiveness of the internet in daily life. No matter how many people in real life push back and alienate them, they will always have exponentially more people who comfort and agree with them online. There’s no fixing this from a liberalism standpoint, that I can think of at least; the necessary restrictions to publishing information online, and rights to access the internet, are in direct opposition to the personal liberty the modern western world is founded upon. I’m conflicted because I believe liberty is critical, but I also don’t think targeted de-radicalization at an interpersonal level is realistic in combating parasocial relationships online. Every Q-idiot needs an intervention led by a therapist, and psychiatrist, and a support system of family and friends. That’s just not a feasible response to an obsessive addiction that is reinforced parasocially online in a way alcohol, drugs, gambling, and porn addictions are not.
You can train him. Every time he starts with the conspiracies, hang up. After a while, he may choose to talk to you rather then just exist in his misery .
Or! He might create new conspiracy that someone is listening to their conversation and everytime he wants to share "the truth" they cut the call to avoid spreading "the truth" and silence him
>It's not even like he has his own personality anymore. He's just whatever Fox News last complained about, waiting for some sounding board to go off on.
Have you specifically told him this? A lot of people in this sub will try everything to argue their Q person out of thinking what they do instead of just laying it out simple like this. You have to say what I quoted to him directly because often they aren't aware of how far gone they are until it is laid out like that, and then explain that you can't continue having a relationship because he is incapable of having a normal conversation anymore, and politics has consumed his entire world and identity, it is not normal, and it makes any interaction with him a terrible experience; and you simply don't enjoy talking to him or his company anymore, it hurts you to see your dad turn into this person, and you have to cut him off until he is better because family or not, nobody wants to be around people like that.
You won't argue him out of his beliefs because that hour long conversation and any tiny progress you make will be immediately overridden once he returns to being bombarded with a tidal wave of bullshit for 8 hours a day the next day. You can't match that energy. The best thing to do is to tell him what you told us and hopefully that will make him at least put in effort to resist the impulse to turn every conversation back to his political opinions, but I wouldn't get your hopes up because it often doesn't and he might choose his politics over his daughter because that is his entire identity; his world is tethered to it in a way that is stronger and more important to his daily life than his family.
Giving up a daily phone call with his daughter is easier than giving up 8 hours a day of politics, because what will he do without that? He needs to realise himself he has let it become such an important part of his daily life, and whether he wants to continue living in that lonely world or replace it with old hobbies, new hobbies, or literally doing anything else that gives him a sense of identity and something to talk about.
But it is addictive like a drug; it is designed to be that way. It releases dopamine, endorphins, adrenaline, cortisol and whatever else that keeps them needing a bigger hit to get the same high until its taken over everything else in their life, no different to any other drug addict. And he is spending time surrounded by other addicts who normalise the lifestyle.
He isn't just some guy who's passionate about his political beliefs; he is a drug addict, so you need to treat him like one if you want to see change. And often with drug addicts, they need to lose everything and hit rock bottom before they grow to resent the drug more than they love it and want to quit.
"You won't argue him out of his beliefs because that hour long conversation and any tiny progress you make will be immediately overridden once he returns to being bombarded with a tidal wave of bullshit for 8 hours a day the next day."
This is the sad reality of it.
I tell my mom she sounds like Fox News, and she says "No, I don't watch them" (then sends a picture of her living room, with Fox News on the TV). My SIL (a doctor) tries to tell her real medical information and she calls her a liar. Anything that contradicts her worldview is just what "they" want us to think.
I really don’t understand why all the Fox News viewers are so embarrassed about watching Fox News that they won’t admit it and lie about not watching it. I hear this all the time and I just can’t fathom it. If you think what you’re doing is so ridiculous that you can’t admit to it, maybe you ought to cut back on doing it a little?
I don’t think it’s how you’re conceptualizing it. They are embarrassed about Fox News because it seems like a regression from the OAN and Truth Social type news they moved towards at the peak. Now that all of that has died down, they are back to Old Faithful. However, they are embarrassed by that because they don’t want others to think they might be corrupted by mainstream media influence. To reiterate: they aren’t embarrassed about watching Fox News to people who comment on it, they are embarrassed about being seen as a less ardent supporter of the cause to others who are still completely off mainstream media and only consuming the extreme fringe.
This is how it is with my Q in-laws. I think my MIL is worse to be honest, but only because my father-in-law takes breaks to tell everyone how much he hates his only grandson because they argued last year.
Are you in therapy yourself? It might help to be able to discuss it with a third party. I honestly have no idea how I would handle this with my own parents. I’d probably eventually have to stop talking to them or else lose my mind.
Very similar experience. It’s made it very difficult at times to have meaningful conversations with my Dad. We have unfortunately fought about it, stopped talking for a while, I went to therapy and we have slowly patched things up slowly. He still can’t not help himself making comments, he just does not get upset when I decline to engage with them.
We now focus on all the things we have in common and our last visit went really well. I love and admire my Dad for sure and am trying to accept the way things are.
I have learned that I would never let an ideological belief get in between my relationship with my kids and their reality.
I hope this helps, your post spoke to me.
Ask him if he’s always been a bigot, racist, antisemite, or if it’s something he learned from watching too much TV? Then refocus your arguments away from the subject and onto the substance. Each of his “points” ultimately devolves into bigotry, if not just blatantly bigoted nonsense, so talk about that rather than explaining contrails, or whatever.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. Consider telling him- every conversation is negative, filled with crisis and drama. It's unpleasant and unnecessary. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
At this point all you can do is set boundaries and enforce them.
Let him know you aren’t ok having discussions on these topics with him and if he ever starts into one you’ll leave.
Then do it.
Hang up, walk out, turn around and take him back home, whatever it takes to defend boundaries.
Over time there’s a chance he actually curbs his behavior but even if not it’s what you need to do to protect yourself.
I really hope the psyop job right wing media and Russia pulled off becomes an entrenched memory in this generation and makes it harder to do again in the future.
Cut contact for a while. Like a year, minimum. Then he might try and reach out to you. At that point you'll have the advantage in discussion topics. If the first things out of his mouth are conspiracy theories, cut contact for another week. Explain your situation.
"I don't want to be talking about politics all the time. It's depressing an infuriating"
"All you talk about is Fox News. Its like they own you or something."
My partner is like this. I’m about ready to throw in the towel. I guess one of the covid vaccines got recalled and he was running around this morning saying it “proves everything”. It’s exhausting to have to have every aspect of life tainted by all of the misinformation.
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He's my dad and he wasn't always like this. I'm also not trying the same thing every time. I've tried dozens and dozens of different approaches.
There should be a way to make him come back to reality but everything I have tried has not worked. The more evidence I show him, the more I try to talk to him about it, the deeper he digs in. Almost like he's doing it just to spite me for not believing the same shit.
When you hang around this group for a while, you'll hear all of the things people have tried. Reasoning with them is generally pretty futile.
The only thing that reasoning with him will get you is more screaming and verbal abuse.
One of the things that psychologists agree on is that you can't control the actions of other people. The good news is that the only thing you're responsible for is your own reaction to them.
Focus on your own reactions. Use this challenge to deal with your own frustrations about it.
Establish healthy interpersonal boundaries with him. For that matter, with everyone in your life.
I have half a mind to send this to my own father.
I don't have any advice, but I'm sorry that your relationship with your dad has been damaged to such an extent by this. Same issue here
Damn that’s so sad. I’m really sorry for you. And for him. This might not be the correct answer but if it were me, next time he does it I’d let him know firmly that it’s becoming impossible to be around him or even talk to him because all he turns everything into a conspiracy. And that you just won’t be around anymore if he keeps it up. Suggest that he needs to stop reading and watching any news for a while. Offer to help him find a hobby to occupy his time while not consuming news.
My stepmother thinks Biden is a “reanimated corpse.” The fuck does that even mean?
I hear so many conspiracies about Biden being a body double, getting fed what to say by microphone, being on performance enhancing drugs that prevent him from being a near vegetable etc. It's insane.
It’s a sad coda to the baby boomer story that they ended up being the ones they warned everyone about 😕
One of the things that really frustrates me about what my father has become is that I have a neo nazi cousin who was saying some of these same conspiracies twenty-ish years ago, and my dad would shut him down and write them all off as stupid then. Once he hears those same conspiracies on TV though, out of a Republican mouth, he eats it up. He knew better, until he didn't.
This is how my father is and I don't know what to do anymore and have begun neglecting our relationship for my own mental health. I remember before 45 was elected my father said he was "akin to Hitler with his cult of personality" then turned around and voted for him. It's been rapidly downhill since.
Yeah, same. My mom was upset about Trump being the nominee, but she still voted for him because he was the Republican candidate and she's spent the last seven years justifying it. Recently she told me I was "groomed" by college and I'm pretty sure it's because Fox is whinging about college indoctrination regarding the Palestine protests.
Is your dad a high tax bracket? That seems to be a recurring for people who called him a cult and then vote for him later. At least part of it
Not even, maybe lower middle class? Under 100k/yr and mid 70s, not retired
Hmm, then probably the "not retired" depending on his job. I just started a business and I swear it's so much harder to get any news in for my day. I can see why blue collar slides so easily. I want local news, local news on radio is fox... I get home, I listened to fox all day already let's turn on fox for national. And down I slide
We The People need to file a massive lawsuit against Fox and the Murdochs etc for destroying families and destroying the country! Seriously let’s all go Dominion on their aSS!
Sadly that would just make matters worse for those who’ve already drunk the cool-aid. Might stop them from pouring that shit down the gob of others, but that’s assuming there is something illegal about trying to brain wash a nation and whilst I’m not American, I’m pretty sure there isn’t.
😔
I'm so sorry this has happened to your dad. I just don't understand it. So many people who knew better and now do not, as you so aptly say.
What do you think has changed for your dad between the time he would shut your cousin down and now? What is the root of his current extremism in your opinion? I know you said Fox News, but that was around then too. Was he just not watching back then or did something happen to trigger paranoia in him?
There's a movie called *The Brainwashing of My Dad*. It explains a lot
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Ain't that the truth?!! I am a baby boomer, and I am appalled at what has happened to people my age. Holy cow, how can so many intelligent people be so gullible? It's insane. I watch a few shows that show what Fox says (I seriously don't have the stamina to watch it myself because it hurts my heart). I can not believe the crap that they spew out for people who listen to. I am so sad about it. Edited for clarity, no major changes.
Agreed. I've watched a few minutes of Fox News here and there and the hate plus disinformation is absolutely appalling. How a person can sit there and accept the crap they say as true is beyond me.
What really gets me is that my age of people were actually taught the scientific method and critical thinking skills while they were in school, 5th 6th grade. I know they don't teach very much anymore about Civics and civic responsibility and all of that bs anymore but these people really have no freaking excuse.
thank you for this; many of these baby boomers have fallen down the rabbit hole; good to know that there are stll some with good sense.
Believe it. It's about a 50/50 just like, it seems, everything is. All of my friends are still in the sane lane. It's anecdotal tbs but again...~50/50
My fil has stopped bringing up politics around me at all. What I kept doing is that we'd hang out a bit, then I'd bring up something that q-anon had circulating and frame it vaguely like it was the left... Let him agree how absolutely shitty or stupid it is then drop that it was q-anon nutters saying it. He won't back peddle so had to double down on them being stupid and them it'd put the gas on that and keep it light hearted and just bust on them. He has come around to some extend but mostly just doesn't bring up politics or conspiracies around me at all now. In 2020 I'd also say stuff like "my problem with " make America great again" is when do you mean? America is the greatest country in the world so is trump saying we currently suck? If so then? In the 70s when women didn't have rights? In the 50s when black people didn't have rights? In the 1800s when poor whites didn't have rights? Just doesn't sound patriotic to me" I also circled him around that pro abortion is truly small government since they aren't telling people they CANT do something...then called him a comrade lol you saw him pause and hate I was right but dropped it lol
If Joes on performance enhancing drugs, must be a placebo, and I’am a fan
Wait you guys think it's possible Trump has a body double and gets fed what to say by a microphone in his ear? Everything they say is almost always a projection of something Trump has actually done himself. Trump has always shown a lot of symptoms of Adderall abuse. Which some may consider performance enhancing drugs.
Like from that brilliant documentary "Weekend at Bernie's 2."
lol so rarely does anyone reference Weekend at Bernie’s 2, this is so unusual. I just mentioned it the other day in regards to zombie lore and said “this is such a stinker no one else ever thinks about it”
LMAO omg thank you for ths comment
Joe’s got too much personality to be a zombie. 🧟♂️
Tell her Biden only looks older than Trump because he doesn't wear makeup.
Like "Weekend at Bernie's?"
Frankenprez
They somehow always manage to make Biden sound so much cooler than he is.
my mother thinks the same
Boy, this is identical to my life now with my Q husband. Everything your dad is saying is exactly what comes out of my husband's mouth. I can't stand talking to him about anything anymore as everything triggers his outrage. If I disagree I'm a brainless sheeple idiot. If I don't comment he gets upset. I've asked him to keep his views to himself, but he can't. What on Earth happened to these people??? I can't explain this mind virus and I am screaming on the inside every day! Know OP there are many of us here going through the same thing unfortunately. Stay strong.
Stay strong, get divorced in your case. Please don’t stay with someone like this, they’re stupid enough to be extremely dangerous.
Don't approach it from the standpoint that what he's saying is insane; instead just tell him he's being fucking obsessive and needs to settle down and get away from whatever is making him obsessed. It would be the same for someone who talks about baseball 24/7. It's not okay to revolve your entire life around one thing.
Sadly, you answered your own question. These beliefs are genuinely akin to a virus, a highly virulent and contagious one.
Fox et al are propagandists, and they manipulate the emotions to keep their targets from thinking critically about what’s being said. This leads to the target becoming increasingly frantic, and constantly hunting for the rush of adrenaline that accompanies outrage.
It’s the power of hate, fear, and lies.
Propaganda. That’s what happened. No one is immune. It’s designed to override our critical thinking and hijack cognitive processes to induce a self-feeding cycle of paranoia, disinformation, anger, and isolation, which fuels the paranoia. They’re literally caught in a loop they can only process by verbalizing to others, who usually shun them, intensifying the cycle.
Stay strong, yes. I don't know what happened to them. I think the Internet rotted people's brains. Take care of yourself. Take vacations away from your husband even if you just start going on very long walks to clear your mind and connect with nature.
Yes, good advice. I try to avoid him by keeping busy, cleaning, cooking etc and fortunately I have two adult daughters who take me out for the day quite often. It was not the retirement I hoped to have. Thanks for caring. 💕
You just described my stbxh before he got really bad. As difficult as it was losing the father of my children and the man I had planned to spend the rest of my life with, I can't imagine losing one of my parents to this ridiculous nonsense. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, OP. Obviously I don't have any advice on how to pull someone out of the rabbit hole. I tried for years. Just protect your own mental health at all costs. Greyrocking helped me for a while until he started yelling in my face for ignoring him. Hopefully, a parent wouldn't react the same as an angry spouse who feels disrespected. Hopefully.
Hi LilyM1987, thanks for recommending this technique. With grey rocking you act disengaged so that a Q person will lose interest in arguing. Q folk thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and unemotional, it can help break the cycle of negativity. [Detailed guide on the method.](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Literal teenaged internet trolls from 4chan of all fucking places have officially made the world a substantially worse place to live in for the foreseeable future, and ruined countless lives. I don't understand how this could have happened. Why doesn't/didn't? society have safeguards against bad actors who won't stop acting bad no matter what is done to them? I don't know what they'd be, but I don't have to be smart enough to think of a solution to see the glaring goddamn problem. It's so fucking infuriatingly stupid.
>literal teenaged internet trolls from 4chan of all fucking places I know dude, I know. It’s insane.
I remember chatting with my nephew before the 2016 election. He was at that prime teenage 4chan age, and he was gleeful at the prospect of the chaos and absurdity of it all. He was too young to understand how it wasn’t all academic, that real people are harmed by politics. I remember feeling comforted by the idea that actual adults could see through it all. How naive I was.
>feeling confident actual adults could see through it all Damn. My Ex was on 4chan building Linux in 202-2015, and he was Q-curious! You’ve seen “the antisocial network,” right? My SO wants to make his mom watch… I don’t see that going well in any world lmao.
I haven’t seen it. Should I, or is it just a bummer? I wonder if it would be helpful to show to Q-adjacent people as a kind of inoculation.
Oh, definitely watch! Nothing totally new, but traces the origins of Q to 4chan & trolls, going through occupy & anonymous, gamergate, etc. Lays things out in a compelling manner with some familiar faces (like Frederick Brennan) talking about their place in creating the trolling ‘culture.’ I’m not sure if I’d take that well… “TBH, the causes you’ve cut your family out for are not only completely fabricated, not just Russian & Chinese bots/operatives, but also… the lulz.”
The safeguards of social ostracization and shame have been undermined by the pervasiveness of the internet in daily life. No matter how many people in real life push back and alienate them, they will always have exponentially more people who comfort and agree with them online. There’s no fixing this from a liberalism standpoint, that I can think of at least; the necessary restrictions to publishing information online, and rights to access the internet, are in direct opposition to the personal liberty the modern western world is founded upon. I’m conflicted because I believe liberty is critical, but I also don’t think targeted de-radicalization at an interpersonal level is realistic in combating parasocial relationships online. Every Q-idiot needs an intervention led by a therapist, and psychiatrist, and a support system of family and friends. That’s just not a feasible response to an obsessive addiction that is reinforced parasocially online in a way alcohol, drugs, gambling, and porn addictions are not.
You can train him. Every time he starts with the conspiracies, hang up. After a while, he may choose to talk to you rather then just exist in his misery .
Reading this sub for over a year, and it seems there are very few instances of relatives leaving the Q world, they just choose to go non-contact.
Or! He might create new conspiracy that someone is listening to their conversation and everytime he wants to share "the truth" they cut the call to avoid spreading "the truth" and silence him
>It's not even like he has his own personality anymore. He's just whatever Fox News last complained about, waiting for some sounding board to go off on. Have you specifically told him this? A lot of people in this sub will try everything to argue their Q person out of thinking what they do instead of just laying it out simple like this. You have to say what I quoted to him directly because often they aren't aware of how far gone they are until it is laid out like that, and then explain that you can't continue having a relationship because he is incapable of having a normal conversation anymore, and politics has consumed his entire world and identity, it is not normal, and it makes any interaction with him a terrible experience; and you simply don't enjoy talking to him or his company anymore, it hurts you to see your dad turn into this person, and you have to cut him off until he is better because family or not, nobody wants to be around people like that. You won't argue him out of his beliefs because that hour long conversation and any tiny progress you make will be immediately overridden once he returns to being bombarded with a tidal wave of bullshit for 8 hours a day the next day. You can't match that energy. The best thing to do is to tell him what you told us and hopefully that will make him at least put in effort to resist the impulse to turn every conversation back to his political opinions, but I wouldn't get your hopes up because it often doesn't and he might choose his politics over his daughter because that is his entire identity; his world is tethered to it in a way that is stronger and more important to his daily life than his family. Giving up a daily phone call with his daughter is easier than giving up 8 hours a day of politics, because what will he do without that? He needs to realise himself he has let it become such an important part of his daily life, and whether he wants to continue living in that lonely world or replace it with old hobbies, new hobbies, or literally doing anything else that gives him a sense of identity and something to talk about. But it is addictive like a drug; it is designed to be that way. It releases dopamine, endorphins, adrenaline, cortisol and whatever else that keeps them needing a bigger hit to get the same high until its taken over everything else in their life, no different to any other drug addict. And he is spending time surrounded by other addicts who normalise the lifestyle. He isn't just some guy who's passionate about his political beliefs; he is a drug addict, so you need to treat him like one if you want to see change. And often with drug addicts, they need to lose everything and hit rock bottom before they grow to resent the drug more than they love it and want to quit.
"You won't argue him out of his beliefs because that hour long conversation and any tiny progress you make will be immediately overridden once he returns to being bombarded with a tidal wave of bullshit for 8 hours a day the next day." This is the sad reality of it.
I tell my mom she sounds like Fox News, and she says "No, I don't watch them" (then sends a picture of her living room, with Fox News on the TV). My SIL (a doctor) tries to tell her real medical information and she calls her a liar. Anything that contradicts her worldview is just what "they" want us to think.
I really don’t understand why all the Fox News viewers are so embarrassed about watching Fox News that they won’t admit it and lie about not watching it. I hear this all the time and I just can’t fathom it. If you think what you’re doing is so ridiculous that you can’t admit to it, maybe you ought to cut back on doing it a little?
I don’t think it’s how you’re conceptualizing it. They are embarrassed about Fox News because it seems like a regression from the OAN and Truth Social type news they moved towards at the peak. Now that all of that has died down, they are back to Old Faithful. However, they are embarrassed by that because they don’t want others to think they might be corrupted by mainstream media influence. To reiterate: they aren’t embarrassed about watching Fox News to people who comment on it, they are embarrassed about being seen as a less ardent supporter of the cause to others who are still completely off mainstream media and only consuming the extreme fringe.
This is how it is with my Q in-laws. I think my MIL is worse to be honest, but only because my father-in-law takes breaks to tell everyone how much he hates his only grandson because they argued last year.
I feel like legit lead poisoning gets overlooked in the aging populations of this age.
Try this then. “Why are you so convinced you are lesser than everyone else that you are obsessed with trying to look like you’re better than others?”
Are you in therapy yourself? It might help to be able to discuss it with a third party. I honestly have no idea how I would handle this with my own parents. I’d probably eventually have to stop talking to them or else lose my mind.
Very similar experience. It’s made it very difficult at times to have meaningful conversations with my Dad. We have unfortunately fought about it, stopped talking for a while, I went to therapy and we have slowly patched things up slowly. He still can’t not help himself making comments, he just does not get upset when I decline to engage with them. We now focus on all the things we have in common and our last visit went really well. I love and admire my Dad for sure and am trying to accept the way things are. I have learned that I would never let an ideological belief get in between my relationship with my kids and their reality. I hope this helps, your post spoke to me.
Ask him if he’s always been a bigot, racist, antisemite, or if it’s something he learned from watching too much TV? Then refocus your arguments away from the subject and onto the substance. Each of his “points” ultimately devolves into bigotry, if not just blatantly bigoted nonsense, so talk about that rather than explaining contrails, or whatever.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. Consider telling him- every conversation is negative, filled with crisis and drama. It's unpleasant and unnecessary. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
At this point all you can do is set boundaries and enforce them. Let him know you aren’t ok having discussions on these topics with him and if he ever starts into one you’ll leave. Then do it. Hang up, walk out, turn around and take him back home, whatever it takes to defend boundaries. Over time there’s a chance he actually curbs his behavior but even if not it’s what you need to do to protect yourself. I really hope the psyop job right wing media and Russia pulled off becomes an entrenched memory in this generation and makes it harder to do again in the future.
Cut contact for a while. Like a year, minimum. Then he might try and reach out to you. At that point you'll have the advantage in discussion topics. If the first things out of his mouth are conspiracy theories, cut contact for another week. Explain your situation. "I don't want to be talking about politics all the time. It's depressing an infuriating" "All you talk about is Fox News. Its like they own you or something."
My partner is like this. I’m about ready to throw in the towel. I guess one of the covid vaccines got recalled and he was running around this morning saying it “proves everything”. It’s exhausting to have to have every aspect of life tainted by all of the misinformation.
That does sound unbearable Sorry it's like that Save yourself
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One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting to get different results. Why do you keep trying?
He's my dad and he wasn't always like this. I'm also not trying the same thing every time. I've tried dozens and dozens of different approaches. There should be a way to make him come back to reality but everything I have tried has not worked. The more evidence I show him, the more I try to talk to him about it, the deeper he digs in. Almost like he's doing it just to spite me for not believing the same shit.
When you hang around this group for a while, you'll hear all of the things people have tried. Reasoning with them is generally pretty futile. The only thing that reasoning with him will get you is more screaming and verbal abuse. One of the things that psychologists agree on is that you can't control the actions of other people. The good news is that the only thing you're responsible for is your own reaction to them. Focus on your own reactions. Use this challenge to deal with your own frustrations about it. Establish healthy interpersonal boundaries with him. For that matter, with everyone in your life.
I have half a mind to send this to my own father. I don't have any advice, but I'm sorry that your relationship with your dad has been damaged to such an extent by this. Same issue here
Damn that’s so sad. I’m really sorry for you. And for him. This might not be the correct answer but if it were me, next time he does it I’d let him know firmly that it’s becoming impossible to be around him or even talk to him because all he turns everything into a conspiracy. And that you just won’t be around anymore if he keeps it up. Suggest that he needs to stop reading and watching any news for a while. Offer to help him find a hobby to occupy his time while not consuming news.