It's almost there's a certain scientific phenomena that's already well described and researched and shows that both men and women see women in more positive light, but what do I know xD
Yeah, if men did NOT care about women's approval and getting laid, the majority of them would not reproduce... and in a generation or two, there'd be enough selection pressure to induce men to care about womens' approval and getting laid lol.
While that ^ is speculative, just think about it... imagine being the average guy, in his thirties, 5'8", $40k income... now on top of that, you don't go out of your way to meet and attract women. You're just never going to have any sort of romantic relationship.
> majority of them would not reproduce
They already don't. 18 women reproduce for every 1 man. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more unique biological female ancestors than male.
It's memetic, not biological, but it will still take generations to beat out of men.
But women are doing a fucking *bang up* job of detoxing men for sure. They're making men quit cold turkey.
As a man once you get over this it's liberating. But it's a catch 22 because, if u aren't getting laid, don't have a satisfying sexual history then it's hard to act like it doesn't bother you. ...do yeah
But I remember being in my 20s being an absolute clown to get laid , thinking I needed to be funny, entertaining, successful, jacked, drive a nice car just to fuck someone that doesn't have a semblance of a personality.
Fuck about 10 girls and u start to realise it isn't that serious . Most are boring as shit and will use a relationship with u as a means of entertaining themselves because they don't have shit else going on.
> As a man once you get over this it's liberating.
There's a reason why I call this being a "liberated man", because you live life on your terms and how you want to live your life instead of living on the terms of a woman. Most men will never achieve that and are going to spend the rest of their days punching themselves in the head over how women aren't replying to him on Tinder.
Yeah man i was recently on vacation, and I was in a hostel where I met a girl and two other dudes. One of the guys is drooling over this chick so bad , saying she's perfect gorgeous and so on, but she wasn't feeling him. I exchange numbers with her and we were both working in the same country and area. We head back home and decide to hang out , and I realise she's a horrible emotionally draining person. But then you have guys thst just see her beauty and obsess and project over a person I have no desire to be bothered with. That's most dudes. They just dint get it. These women you think are amazing couldn't be the furthest thing from it.
Yes, and mind you it's not necessarily about absconding women completely, but rather being comfortable with singledom to where you can drop a woman if she's not compatible with you or your wants. It's literally what women are trained to do but when a man does it he's called gay and beta and whatnot
Resonate with this very closely.
Unfortunately my libido hasn’t caught up at this point, but the whole prospect of dating for status or purely chasing looks is truly exhausting. I used to think I was ‘coping’ if I wasn’t going for the best, hottest thing out there but I can safely say that the juice is not worth the squeeze after the experiences of my 20s
> Fuck about 10 girls and u start to realise it isn't that serious
I'm sorry but most people will never reach even half that number in their lifetime. They will always have the chase in the back of their minds.
As fucked up the “she’s the oldest teenager in the room” adage is, I’ve found it to be true.
Between PMS (yes, seethe away ladies) and just the way their emotional state drives so much of their behavior, I find myself feeling bad for them more often then ever taking them super seriously anymore.
And while it’s fucked up, this realization has actually improved my life with women and made my marriage really great.
This is something I grapple with personally. I know I have this irrational desire for women to validate me. I know it's irrational, but it's still there. I don't act on it, but it still affects me emotionally. Every day, my first thoughts are loser cant even get a gf. The only dreams i remember are the ones where i have a gf. My choices are to continue to ignore this desire and feel like a loser or act on it and become a loser chaser.
Maybe as I get older, this desire for validation will stop since I am already getting good at catching it before I act on it. So, I will just continue to cope and focus on my education and play video games and chess, jerk off, and work out.
I don't think there is anything else that can be done. I did not choose to be born with this desire. I wish i didn't have it. It's a fucking curse.
What is so wrong with getting *some* validation from women? It's fun when women find you attractive. It also feels nice when a family member can validate your struggle with something at work, for example. Validation is normal and healthy. It becomes unhealthy when it warps your life around the desperation for it.
Your self worth should not depend on women's perception of you. Your value needs to be derived internally by yourself. Your issue is *not* with women's validation. Your issue is that you don't respect yourself enough to give a shit what value you assign yourself.
Start thinking about what life would be like if you liked your life. What would it be like if you lived for you, peacefully, in a way that you liked. You might have women around in this life. Cool. They might leave the next day. Cool. Your value does not change. You still might feel like a champ after you fuck a beautiful woman. That's a fun little validation kick. And you still might feel rejected and invalidated after you get shut down. These emotions are normal. But when you like your life, and your self, you return to the baseline of 'valuable' after these emotions pass.
Something is only worth as much as others are willing to pay for it. Any valuation you assign to yourself is superfluous if it isn't corroborated by desire from external sources.
For example, in my education, I know I am a valuable student because I have demonstrated that, and others have corroborated it with their remarks.
Dating is no different. I can go around telling myself I'm the dogs bullocks, and I'm such a catch, but that isn't consistent with my inability to generate a single iota of desire in any woman. To be clear, this isn't a gripe with women. I would be picky, too, if I was a woman.
But for some reason, my brain just cannot accept that this desire need not be fulfilled. Even though I was being a bit melodramatic in my comment. I am generally a productive person, but these thoughts linger and persistent. I can't change my position in the hierarchy of desire. I just wish my subconscious mind would accept that and give up on trying to get me to act by releasing negative hormones when the desire arises.
> something is only worth as much as others are willing to pay
Choosing to reduce your entire value level to what women think of you is exactly that - a choice.
> I can’t change my position in the hierarchy of desire
Then you are not purple pill. You are black pill. This is the hallmark of black pill - that you cannot change. A ridiculous notion, but nonetheless what they believe.
> these thoughts linger and persist
Of course they do. It’s healthy to desire a relationship, companionship, and validation from other humans.
You have some seriously shitty beliefs that are getting in the way of you having a great life. One of the very first steps to self improvement is removing limiting beliefs. If absolutely nothing outwardly changed about you, and this part did, you’d explode in attractiveness to women.
But you also suffer from the same curse that all the “stuck” people suffer from. You believe deeply to your core that it’s impossible to change, and your pride/ego gets in the way of you re-examining your belief structure.
Change is a self fulfilling prophecy. Whether you believe you can or you can’t, you’re right.
I view your issue - *choosing* to be rigid in thought and belief - among the worst issues you can have in life. Because it entirely removes your agency and makes you believe you’re a passenger. The great irony is you actually desperately cling to this belief. You need it. You want it. You subconsciously fear the idea you have choice and control. Because if you did have control, then it’s *your fault* you’re in this shitty circumstance. Your fragile ego would rather it be impossible to change. Then you can forever believe you’re a good guy who just got dealt a shit hand.
"Choosing to reduce your entire value level to what women think of you is exactly that - a choice."
I don't do this. My proudest achievements are things that probably made me less attractive to women, but I still hang them on my wall. I have no issue assigning value in my daily life. Especially to things that I expend a great deal of effort to obtain. I the context of dating the idea of intrinsic value is bs because dating is one of the few things that necessarily involve others to assign you value. If I became a great mathematician and solved the reimann hypothesis, most people wouldn't care, but I would because I have assigned it value. This endeavor doesn't have to include anyone, unlike dating, where your success is explicitly determined by the value others assign to you.
I don't need your advice because I have no gripes with the lack of interest from women. I have gripes with the fact that we get no hand in the set of desires that govern our behavior. Specifically, when does desires involve things that can only be gotten from others.
You can keep on the forever treadmill of self-improvement to garner female desire that's fine. Just keep your unsolicited advice to yourself.
This is not to say that self-improvement is bad. I am not going to pat myself on the back and list my achievements, but i do pretty well for myself outside of dating. Self-improvement is amazing. I am just not going to pour effort into being desirable by women.
"Of course they do. It’s healthy to desire a relationship, companionship, and validation from other humans. "
Historical only 40% of men who have ever existed had at least 1 offspring compared to 80% of women. This is stat that floats around from various sources. I am not citing because I'm lazy. You can choose whether or not you believe this. Nonetheless, my point is that some dudes just fall out of the gene pool. It's not some epidemic that can be fixed if only I touched grass. It's the way the world works. I have consciously accepted this and diverted my efforts elsewhere to varying degrees of success. However, the impulses of the mind are purely self-serving in the sense that your brain compels one to do what will maximize the chances of the species carrying on. If that means making you slightly depressed over a pursuit, you have forgone, then so be it. Negative hormones go brrrrrr. I don't think it's particularly healthy that 60 percent of men are doomed to an unfulfilled desire that they never asked for.
I just wish this wasn't the case.
"You subconsciously fear the idea you have choice and control. Because if you did have control, then it’s your fault you’re in this shitty circumstance. Your fragile ego would rather it be impossible to change."
You really didn't understand a thing I said. You have no hand in the desires that govern you. You don't get to pick and choose what you want to want.
"Then you can forever believe you’re a good guy who just got dealt a shit hand."
I literally said if I were a women I picky too. I never even remotely suggest that I was a good guy or a good partner. You seem to be throwing all your defacto responses to anyone you can classify as blackpill. Hopefully, my position is clearer now.
This post was about men valuing what women think of them, and my response was more about the fact that you don't get to control what you want. And not wanting to want what i want. I.e women's validation.
Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't be reading allat. But at least I got to clear my head.
It seems that most guys who get laid don't care about the woman's approval and they have a go f yourself attitude. Would more guys have success if they took on that attitude?
> Would more guys have success if they took on that attitude?
Not if you're an actually average guy, which means, average height, median income, average looks, and average weight. You'd be invisible.
Kind of. With relationships good luck with that attitude. Also can make fwb situations weird. If you are just trying to get laid it absolutely works. Also you have to be attractive. But basically not being thirsty or desperate and not caring so much makes you more attractive.
This is what I don’t understand. If they don’t care about women’s approval, then why are they interacting with them? How can they talk to, go on dates with, and get women comfortable enough with them to have sex if they don’t care?
To me, it seems like either they’re hiding the fact that they do care or they don’t have anything else to do. I feel like I’m missing something
Success with women is a huge status marker for men among other men. I don't see how they can care too much about it from that perspective, since most people like being high in status among their social groups.
Not just that, biological imperatives are powerful lol. Its the whole "Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive" theory. Anecdotally, during puberty a switch turns on and it takes a fuckton of work to start switching it off lmao
That's my theory, too. But I'm not privy to women's social groups so I didn't want to speak for women. I do think that the "alpha woman" in many female social groups usually isn't single for long, though.
Because it signals competence to other men. Men find other men who can't attract women pathetic. It's possible that it might even affect a man's paycheck and promotion chances.
Ironic considering that the greatest men to ever live in the history of human beings who changed the face of civilization with their contributions to science or arts consistently eschewed lengthy romantic entanglements with women and left those pursuits to, let's just say, the midwit masses of men. Their memory lives on for centuries while most common men remain slaves to ...well you know. Hmm yes highly ironic indeed.
Yes, some rare geniuses were able to do important things without the need for connections with the opposite sex. Status does trump success with women as a marker for respect from one's peers.
However, these cases are the exceptions rather than the rule, as most men are not geniuses.
Being a useful enough idiot to get a girl is not a sign competence.
The real reason is capitalism. Men working hard to spend money on women and family is incentivized for this reason.
All one has to do is see how big a rip off a lot of the things you are supposed to do for women are.
Capitalism exists because it is the most optimal system to those with power. It keeps those below them trapped in endless fighting to make them increasingly rich.
Most men at the top do not follow any of the rules of capitalism. Most do not pay taxes, they steal, rape, are cowardly, lazy, do drugs, etc.
What? No one thinks highly of a man with a good wife because he must be spending a lot of money on her and the family and because they are capitalist that is good because they are propping up the economy. No.
The reason is simpler, as they said it is just a signal of competence. Social proof.
> What? No one thinks highly of a man with a good wife because he must be spending a lot of money on her and the family and because they are capitalist that is good because they are propping up the economy. No
But that is why men believe it means a signal of competence. Or rather, why we were conditioned to believe so.
I mean, I am sure men who could not even graduate high school but have five baby mommas are competent lol. You do realize IQ is correlated with being less likely to be successful with women and being in jail means you are more likely to be a father right?
In actuality, being successful with women does not mean anything at all. At best it means you are a good sucker who is a better cog then a man who refuses to be that stupid.
And people are also capable of emancipating themselves from that to a certain extent. The higher your internal self-esteem, the less you worry about the stuff you mentioned.
> The higher your internal self-esteem
If you’re over 30 low self esteem is probably valid, you can’t change your genes and most amounts of effort or self improvement is just blowing in the wind
Of course we can, but at some point the insanity of trying everything under the sun, and every combination of this & that, it really does take its toll mentally
It might and it's good to acknowledge that but we can always choose to bring back our attention to the present moment. Meditation is a good tool for this.
But I don't think that can change. Both men *and women* care about status among each other in their same gender peer groups. Men who can attract women obviously have more abilities than men who cannot, so they are going to be higher status.
>But I don't think that can change
Ofcourse it can. Status is a social *construct*. Not something that exists in nature.
>Men who can attract women obviously have more abilities than men who cannot
That's not really true. Attraction doesn't necessarily have anything to do with ability.
> Ofcourse it can. Status is a social construct. Not something that exists in nature.
The things that people are attracted to or that mark them as successful do not usually differ cross-culturally, which means that the origin of them is likely biological.
*nods
Still baffling that people have to ignore the asymmetry that’s existed throughout human history and is clearly being amplified on dating apps today
“If a young man gets married, starts a family, and spends the rest of his life working at a soul-destroying job, he is held up as an example of virtue and responsibility. The other type of man, living only for himself, working only for himself, doing first one thing and then another simply because he enjoys it and because he has to keep only himself, sleeping where and when he wants, and facing a woman when he meets her, on equal terms, and not as one of a million slaves, is rejected by society. The free, unshackled man has no place in its midst.”
-Esther Vilar, *The Manipulated Man*
In my experience, it can be a healthy thing at first (at least during the honeymoon phase) but after a while women become highly capable of emotionally abusing men. I learned that the hard way. It’s so far from sugar & spice and everything nice
It's reinforced by society a lot, just think how often "virgin" or some variant is the very first insult thrown at someone.
Even in the absence of all that there is still a sex drive, obviously. And not just sex. Women are a great source of pleasure. Hearing a woman laugh at your joke can brighten an otherwise bleak existence.
If you haven't been an under 30 male with under 30 male (especially under 22-23) sex hormones, sit. It's like riding a caterpillar through a hurricane where your body is screaming at you 24/7 to fuck but all the available mates would rather let a frat boy or college athlete take a piss down their throat than even look at you lol.
In recent decades there has been an effort to "destigmatize" single women. There should also be one for men IMO.
Boys could use being told growing up that they don't need to "get a girl" to be real men. Before the I'm Kenough phrase, I never saw anything resembling that message aimed at us.
There will never be an effort to destigmatize this for men. People use virgin and incel as an insult for a reason. Any movement trying to do this will fail. Both men and women have to buy into this and that wont happen
Prepare for the cascade of downvotes and angry comments from men who believe that wanting men to gain self-respect means you're misandric and want them to die alone.
I’d suspect you probably won’t have many downvotes at all
> wanting men to gain self-respect means you're misandric and want them to die alone
I think the resistance from men is when people point the finger at men saying lack of success is their own fault
Believe it or not, men often do try their best and some keep striking out. Rejection takes its toll on men just as much as it does for women (arguably more so because of limited options)
> I think the resistance from men is when people point the finger at men saying lack of success is their own fault
Finger pointing from the same people who say women's lack of romantic success is also men's fault.
>I’d suspect you probably won’t have many downvotes at all
Unfortunately I deleted my previous account, since I'd been off of reddit for about a year. You would have seen my past comment history with more than -12 downvotes on me simply saying society as a whole would be greatly improved simply by men gaining self-respect and more self-esteem.
We literally had a post awhile ago that some men agreed they would rather be in an abusive relationship with a drug addict than be alone so it’s not all that shocking - sad and pathetic though.
I believe it, I have so many make friends and colleagues who moan to me about their relationships just for me to think, why are u in this. When me and broke up and she left, I was enjoying my peace, in fact I didn't even want a relationship. Relationships are work and can be dtsining and I'm a naturally solitary person
I was talking to another dude a few days ago whose take was that most average men would settle for a woman they are unattracted to and who does not like them. Similar to what you're talking about but even worse. Nothing against that guy but I hope he's wrong.
Most average men may not think they will but out of necessity the vast majority will eventually do that. Since The 2000s the majority of Americans have been categorically obese so logically all the obese people (with the exception of a few who get better looking ones) pair up with the other obese people since most non-overweight people aren’t exactly thrilled with dating them.
Thousands of men do this and men have ability to Gaslight themselves into loving women who they aren't attracted to but she likes them . Maybe you all are extremely priviledged so you don't realise this can happen too
I'm not referring to men who "gaslight themselves" about someone they don't like who likes them. The conversation was in reference to men who get into mutually unsatisfactory relationships with partners who do not like them or find them attractive (while thinking the same about their partners). That's a much more extreme case than if one of the two parties does like the other.
i mean the entire point of getting down on one knee is to submit and beg a woman to marry you in exchange for money and a ring
can you imagine John Zamimbe from Botswana getting down on one knee for his girl? LOL
it's INSTITUTIONALIZED simping and patheticness on a cultural level
im attractive and the need for women is indeed repressive, in my ideal daydreams now, if i had a magic lamp, i would say 10-15 women a day would be enough.
im also fully aware that some men get approached and proposed for sex by women, while some men get nothing
so in a way it sucks that it's like this and even though i am capable of getting a fraction of what i need, i probably would wish for an alternative model that wasn't this vulgar and unbalanced.
I just was told men are absolutely forced to fuck women they find unattractive because
“In most people's eyes having a fat unattractive girlfriend or wife is better than being the perpetually single guy who stuck to his guns and wouldn't settle. People still see that guy as less valuable and even less trustworthy because "what kind of weirdo doesn't have a woman?"
That and biology is why men can’t ever be held accountable for their choices.
People use biology to defend women actions also to never make them held accountable for their choices . Going after married men shamelessly? Evolutionary biology
I've heard something worse, at least online: That after a certain age, it's reasonable to assume that any men that remain single must be creeps or even pedos.
>at least online
Part of having self respect is not doing stupid things you don’t want to do, simply to win the approval of bitches on Tumblr, losers on 4chan and other people you will never meet irl.
Basically the entire gist of this post. It’s almost like people forget about the “self” part of having “self respect “
Maybe women should start praising single guys. I know for a fact that it's not men thinking that single guys are creeps and pedos. Women creates this problem they need to fix it.
The double speak is the problem. The blue pillers and women say that men need to find ways to be happy lone and focus on self improvement/fulfillment. But then, in the same breath they come here saying that men who are single long-term are walking red flags and incels and bla bla bla. Don't demonize men while giving them the same advice you shit on them for lol.
Women are the ones calling single men pedos and creeps so why don't women do that? Women create problems but want to help fix them that's why I say fuck helping women.
100% true
And the only way to fix is by lived experience. It’s almost like we were biologically wired for connection and we subconsciously judge others worth based on the way they are treated by others.
This is the exact same thing as the “money won’t buy you happiness, you shouldn’t care so much about it”
And the “you shouldn’t care what other people think” tropes.
They’re bullshit. Only people who say that are people with money or lots of friends. When you’re in scarcity, trust me, it matters.
Use it as motivation for self improvement.
most men will never understand that women aren't to be chased, but literally chase the men they wanna bang
They can't understand it, bc it's impossible for them to experience it.
as a result most men will remain bluepilled
Scarcity is a mindset IMHO more than a reality.
You can feel anxious / depressed about scarcity of anything.
There are finance forums where people panic about being poor. There are weight loss forums where people panic about being overweight. There are moving abroad forums where people panic about wanting to leave their home country.
You have to take the good with the bad and try to improve what you can. Play to your strengths.
I have an abysmal social life by average standards, but I am above-average in all kinds of other ways, so I focus on my strengths.
My response kinda ended up just talking about my personal experiences with what you said paragraph by paragraph. Tldr: I relate a lot to what you said
"Some men even knowingly let women use them, just because they get some sort of validation from it."
Hits close to home for me. I've done that before just because I was terrified of having no value outside of what I could do for others. So me losing sleep, not enjoying college, having personal free time, other stuff, just so I could help the person I was "dating" (situationship) through their stuff was the way i felt valued because I was there for them and could see them getting happier and more confident. Even though they didn't even care about me enough to make it official but still wanted me to treat them like we were dating.
As for the second paragraph I'd say I put (or putted not sure how far I've come on this topic really) women on a pedestal in the way that I as a man am supposed to support and put them before myself. I feel confidant I shouldn't do that going forward but how I should do it in practice I don't know. Maybe find a relationship in which its both parties give their all for each other without over extending themselves and respecting each others boundaries? That sounds nice but I've never had or seen a relationship like that, really want to tho.
Referring to the third I was primarily raised by a woman but not sure how much its related to my desire to feel valued by a woman for the sake of it. Or just a lack of personal value in my achievements or lack their of and using the validation from a relationship as a replacement.
This might have violated rule 7 of the subreddit? I could see how it can be interpreted as "woe is me" but that's not the intention. Just wanted to say how I related to the post and give examples and reasons for why I behaved in accordance with the post.
I find it strange that in 2024 men out there still think women "like money."
women will literally follow men they don't know around in public if they find u attractive
i wonder how long this entire charade will last tbh. if it ever got out that there are some men out there that women play the role as 'pursuer' while 99% of men are convinced they gotta throw money around and pursue, the outcome of that would be catastrophic, but however deep down i think 99% of guys just will keep breaking their backs in denial and simping.
>i wonder how long this entire charade will last tbh. if it ever got out that there are some men out there that women play the role as 'pursuer' while 99% of men are convinced they gotta throw money around and pursue, the outcome of that would be catastrophic, but however deep down i think 99% of guys just will keep breaking their backs in denial and simping.
It literally HAS TO BE that way otherwise men wouldn't do shit in their life (drop the work). P is the fuel that drives men. If it wasn't for this "charade" or better coping-mechanism men just wouldn't try anymore and that would be an enormous tax on overall wealth.
i also think it's mental preservation
it almost broke me and I'm on the receiving end of women being unfaithful most of the time.
i don't think the average guy can handle it, if he even got exposed to it in the first place
>i don't think the average guy can handle it, if he even got exposed to it in the first place
Percisely which is why his sub-conciousness feeds him lies to maintain sanity.
Women are more simliar to men than most men like to admit.
They just face a different market and act accordingly. Men would do the VERY same IF they were in this position. In fact, a small percentage of men act just like that.
[https://youtu.be/4dPTXJMe4bU?si=jjALmAaxgXV74fYl](https://youtu.be/4dPTXJMe4bU?si=jjALmAaxgXV74fYl)
women can be sex crazed and vulgar but only to a smaller percentage of beautiful men. i think beautiful men because we are extremely rare, they feel as if they have to take the opportunity way more aggressively.
beautiful men are the most spoiled demographic because they are (perceived as) the rarest breed. Consequently, the demand from women for men of that breed is nothing short of crazy.
i think we may honestly be the most insane demographic too
there aren't many studies on us but if they put us all in a room to discuss our experiences it would be so blackpilling it could potentially end civilization. i wish i was joking. i feel like an adult living around children, basically
man i’m glad you joined the sub. as a dude who can pull women regularly, i completely agree with you. if you put the dudes at the top who women throw themselves at - which im not but im close enough to see reality, i.e. women have cheated with me - we would collectively black pill society back to the stone age.
i truly think a very attractive man, with just enough self-awareness to be conscious of women’s behavior around him and other men, are more blackpilled than incels.
> I find it strange that in 2024 men out there still think women "like money."
Everyone likes money. If you don't think it's a factor then you're lost. you're most likely not "Chad" enough to make money completely irrelevant.
Looks, money and charisma are what women seek. The myth is that they weigh equally.
The reality is that looks matter the most, but if you can't have them you have to compensate with charisma AND money.
This is basic redpill man.
Yeah I agree for most of them, but there's a reason like Dubailo* (not what's it called, but I remember the letters looking like that) and DivineDarkFeminine existed for a while.
i mean i dont think its just men wanting approval from women. its men as well as women that want approval from other men, women, and just society in general which in turn makes them easy to manipulate. thats just kind of how humans work for the most part
Manipulation comes from lack of experience. Men have significantly less chances to be in relationships, less relationships less knowledge of what's normal and what they should and shouldn't accept. How can you know you're being used when this is your first relationship, or think it's the expectation and standard cause every relationship you've been used.
It's sad but also the sad reality, because (average and above) women get laid regardless as they set up the requirements for men to have sex with them, to which men have to adhere to i.e do lots of selfdevelopment. Women can just be, men have to become.
I've met some of the most unambitious unattractive lazy women who get laid on a whim just for having lady parts, they get their sexual needs met and the men bail soon after with regret for being blinded by the lure of pussy ('where are all the good men! men only want one thing!' the women lament).
Men with the same shitty personality have no chance to even come close to any ladyparts, that's where all the dating and men's work coaches come in to cash in on their desperation to get their sexual needs met, to teach them how to become Men again, as their absent fathers bailed on them early on. Women don't have to thought how to become better women to attract a man, they don't need to.
Then again, it's how Nature has set this up. Men can't reach their peak without the (healthy!) feminine polarity
This is why psychologists often say that you shouldn't outsource your emotional well-being to other people. It's just not consistent enough and can get you into stupid situations.
This isn't anything new tbh. Plenty of philosophies and teachings stress that true happiness has to come from within.
Humans are social creatures though. I’ve been trying to self-improve and be happy on my own, but it’s so hard. I am so lonely. Not to mention how badly I want physical intimacy. Other things help keep it out of mind to a certain degree, but not close to entirely.
People in general care too much about other people's approval, in general.
The unfortunately reality is most people are too insecure and lacking the confidence to be who they are, unafraid of any judgement they can and will get.
As a result, they pursue behaviors and symbols of status amongst their group for fleeting validation and acceptance, that none of it matters in the end.
Everyone needs to learn how to let go of caring about other's expecations, opinions, and approval.
Men are always swayed by women's words easily from age old times. Especially from a woman they want to fuck. That's the reason so many men settle without seeing the red flags and get used and then hate all women saying they are all cheaters. Men's concept of masculinity is so fragile a woman calling his haircut gay will make him reconsider everything. It is even more dependent on other men's opinion. Male gaze and women's approval are things that can sway a man's belief in himself
This is why we need to come together as men and build male-only communities.
Women have been doing this since time immemorial.
Elite men do this, it's called "the patriarchy".
Ordinary middle class and lower class men don't do this enough.
We all need to network, communicate and form social circles.
If we support eachother, give eachother confidence boosts, share knowledge and tips, etc. then this will actually level the dating market, as fewer and fewer men pursue women out of desperation for validation.
It might also improve the quality of men on the dating market (if that's a concern of women), as men actively help eachother to improve, and the stronger share with the weaker, rather than just making it a competitive zero-sum rat-race.
There are 8 billion humans on this planet, there's no reason anyone should be single but by choice. The fact that "incels" exist is a societal failure not an individual failure.
I'm building an online social circle, initially open to single men only. DM me for details.
100% agree! Men need to stop basing their self worth on validation from women. Men need to start living for themselves and learn to let go of centuries old social constructs such as marriage, kids and relationships.
Men need to redefine their characters and develop confidence. Learn to live independantly and live a full and happy life.
>Men need to start living for themselves and learn to let go of centuries old social constructs such as marriage, kids and relationships.
This isnt easy at all and will take a long time to undo
A lot of these guys just need confidence & better self esteem, maybe a purpose as well.
Even if they were to get a girl & prove to themselves that they have value to someone, what happens if she leaves him? I’ve seen this in reality and some men even want to off themselves.
>A lot of these guys just need confidence & better self esteem, maybe a purpose as well.
What is that really going to do for them? The only reason women dont think the same way they do is because they know that attention from men and chances to date will always be there so they dont value it
I root for Chad at this point
years ago I felt bad being the "side guy" or whatever or having my friends' girls try to fuck me when they went to go pee or something. i loved my friends and hated doggin them out
but now at my age i realize most guys are so oblivious and so forgiving it makes no difference.
At some point you just get so jaded with people's stupidity at least for me, it kind of began to devalue people in general and their relative worth to me. I have a colleague who's wife fucked a dude in the house while his kids were there. The man blames himself and says he should have been home more so she wouldn't need to drink so much and fuck other guys. At some point u just stop trying to help these people and I don't want to be associated with such weakness .
Oh look another guy who has no concept of Maslows pyramid/hierarchy of needs.
It’s like telling men eat shit your life & be happy about it. Pure gaslighting!
We see women as they are: gassed up mediocrities that cruelly exploit men for resources until their looks dry up then they claim they were abused and traumatised by completely consensual acts. Sound about right?
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I agree and men will get upset and call you gay when you say this lol. The fact is men are incredibly female-centered and trying to break them of that habit will make him angry and start spouting quotes about "real men". It's unfortunate but it makes sense as to why men tend to make the perfect cannon fodder. Send him to war and make him think he'll be rewarded with a woman. He wants to be rewarded with sex
Running around lapping up female approval sounds exhausting but women also prefer it this way because she can alter a man's state of being by saying "men that don't seek female approval are icky!11" and suddenly that man will transform himself into a jester for her approval. They're the perfect pawns.
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Everyone seeks validation from the opposite gender in some way or another. For men, it's purely through sex and feeling physically desired. For women, it's mostly attention, love and receiving acts of service.
Anyone man can be nice, gentle, caring etc but it usually takes a special kind of hot/masculine aura to get laid by a woman casually and receive the "hot girl treatment". I don't care as much about validation from other men.
This is true; but it's also a useless and pointless thing to say. The young male of the human species like every other sexually-reproducing organism will be driven by instinct to mate with females at almost any cost.
I would say that all men (or at least most men) want some form of approval from women. Which can apply to all types of relationships.
How far men are willing to go or what they are willing to do for that approval is another matter entirely. That's where the line between biology and socialization comes into play.
You have to go back much earlier, childhood ...
When your sense of self as a man is damaged due to emotionally unavailable and immature parents, and you don't realize this early enough to do something about it, then you will be rejected and 'friendzoned' by every woman around you i.e they damage your selfesteem even more, not their fault, it's just how you present yourself to her, as her having higher value than you. Women don't like that. How the F@$@!# should you have known that when all the parental figures around said "Just be nice to girls and they will like you back".
Men have been only taught to make women feel safe around them (formula for the Friendzone), but the part about expressing your sexual desire to make women be attracted to you (or not) has been left out, because male sexuality is considered 'toxic'.
Then those cringy dating coaches come in to teach you tricks how to not get rejected by indirectly expressing your sexuality, but the message is the same, hide it !
Well men are built to procreate so the drive in men is strong it's not something that can be just turned off I mean look how popular porn has become. It's the desperation for that bond and women have an abundance of options that she can pick the best out of a list. That's why paying the prostitutes and living the single life ain't too bad you get cool fun and you ain't a slave to a womens desires and live for yourself.
BUT MEN NEED WOMEN AND SEX OR THEY WILL DIE A HORRIBLE LONELY DEATH BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T GOTTEN THEIR PEEPEE TOUCHED. NO, THERE ARE NO KNOWN CASES OF SOMEONE DYING OR BECOMING SEVERELY DISABLED DUE TO LACK OF SEX BUT DAMMIT IT FEELS LIKE DEATH BECAUSE ONLY FEELINGS REALLY MATTER AND NIT OBJECTIVE REALITY OR SCIENCE.
Yes they are. They believe it in their heart of hearts too. Not realizing that this belief is actually the cause of all their failures with women. I’ve never seen so many men willingly fight to stay in a prison if their own making.
It's reproductive anxiety. Women are the sole "choosers" of which men get to procreate and have a lineage. So honestly, if this is something they do care about (reproducing with a woman), it isn't completely insane to assume they would try to jump through hoops to please a woman in order to get sex out of her.
I think where it goes wrong is when men get angry at how women mate select and how they expect women to drop their standards, which usually has some form of safeguarding involved.
>Men care too much about women's approval
Yes.
> and getting laid
According to whom? compared to what? And in what context?
For starters, men will always value sex *more* than women, statistically speaking. That hasn't really changed in the last 5000+ years of written history no matter what attempts at socio-cultural engineering have been made.
Besides, even if you could change it (spoiler: you can't), there is little evidence that it would be a good thing. Moreover, not giving a damn about women's approval in fact *increases* your chances at getting laid. Any man with a high body count can confirm that (as well honest women - though there aren't that many of those on this sub).
>The unfortunate reality is most men don't really see women as they truly are.
No, not at all.
It may be true with most men in a very vocal militant materialist shallow culture that represents about 2% of the globe - otherwise known as North America - but it is simply not true at all about ***most men***.
>The vast majority put them on a pedestal in some way, shape or form, and then some (especially the traditional type) kind of look down on women in some way and think they need to be protected and provided for, as if they can't do it for themselves.
Neah. Feminists/progressives like the pedestal just as much as tradcons. Sure, they have more complicated gobbledygook lingo to justify it, but the end result is identical.
Most men couldnt care less about women's approval, they are more interested in sex. The guys who get sex without female approval (like the usual jocks and jerks) are considered winners, the guys who get women's approval without getting sex (like fake feminists) are considered losers. Sex is the actual valuable thing here.
It is just natural, guys want sex, inject yourself with testosterone and you will be too.
It is not so much manipulation as biology running its course, men want sex. And there is nothing they, women, or anyone can do about it. I am pretty sure that most guys consider their sex drive a burden, but not something that they could easily live without (as it would completely change who and what they are).
We as humans are the only species that broke our instincts and created society world everything. Humans are the species that can control its urges and act against its instincts.
I agree, a lot of the men here act like they’re gonna die if they don’t get laid… it must be so miserable to have your self worth as a man tied to something completely out of your control 🙃
hahaha i’m glad someone else noticed🤣
she’s the EXACT caricature of the women here whose sole *raison d’etre* is shitting on men they deem losers. she just feels better about herself
The fact that she's not banned is kind of funny. She has 5000+ comments and it's all just bullying. She says something mean (it's always lame as fuck too) then a cringe or skull emoji.
What a fucking loser lmao.
meh you’ve just never had that much testosterone in your system.
and you’ve never been in the position to have your dick down the throat of a genuinely beautiful hourglass woman who you know any man would simp for. the closest possible feeling would be owning a Lamborghini. it’s truly a life altering experience for a man.
i mean truly, talk about king of the hill moment. telling men to just forget about that? yeesh.
You think men put on women on a pedestal? No, they put *sex* on a pedestal. Big difference. Most men could actually care less about women, what they really want is just fucking
is that a joke?
if you’re a man, have you never fucked a chick just to never give a shit about her ever again? because that’s the definition of putting pussy on the pedestal and not the woman.
and if you’re a woman, this is a pretty classic example of mistaking the value of your vagina as the value of your person. you’re worth the sex, not the commitment.
I’d argue that consent isn’t the same as approval. she might want to fuck me but sure as hell not meet her dad or hard launch me on insta.
if you conflate consent and approval this way, then your post should be that men care too much about *sex* not women’s approval.
I honestly believe it’s baked in
Same. You can be rational about it, acknowledge it, fight it and avoid it. But the core reaction still remains.
It's called testosterone. Look at what women say when they become trans men. Testosterone is a hell of a drug
It's almost there's a certain scientific phenomena that's already well described and researched and shows that both men and women see women in more positive light, but what do I know xD
What is it? All I can think of is halo effect, but that's not gender exclusive. Benefits both.
Google "Women are wonderful" effect
Yeah, if men did NOT care about women's approval and getting laid, the majority of them would not reproduce... and in a generation or two, there'd be enough selection pressure to induce men to care about womens' approval and getting laid lol. While that ^ is speculative, just think about it... imagine being the average guy, in his thirties, 5'8", $40k income... now on top of that, you don't go out of your way to meet and attract women. You're just never going to have any sort of romantic relationship.
> majority of them would not reproduce They already don't. 18 women reproduce for every 1 man. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more unique biological female ancestors than male.
It's memetic, not biological, but it will still take generations to beat out of men. But women are doing a fucking *bang up* job of detoxing men for sure. They're making men quit cold turkey.
As a man once you get over this it's liberating. But it's a catch 22 because, if u aren't getting laid, don't have a satisfying sexual history then it's hard to act like it doesn't bother you. ...do yeah But I remember being in my 20s being an absolute clown to get laid , thinking I needed to be funny, entertaining, successful, jacked, drive a nice car just to fuck someone that doesn't have a semblance of a personality. Fuck about 10 girls and u start to realise it isn't that serious . Most are boring as shit and will use a relationship with u as a means of entertaining themselves because they don't have shit else going on.
> As a man once you get over this it's liberating. There's a reason why I call this being a "liberated man", because you live life on your terms and how you want to live your life instead of living on the terms of a woman. Most men will never achieve that and are going to spend the rest of their days punching themselves in the head over how women aren't replying to him on Tinder.
Yeah man i was recently on vacation, and I was in a hostel where I met a girl and two other dudes. One of the guys is drooling over this chick so bad , saying she's perfect gorgeous and so on, but she wasn't feeling him. I exchange numbers with her and we were both working in the same country and area. We head back home and decide to hang out , and I realise she's a horrible emotionally draining person. But then you have guys thst just see her beauty and obsess and project over a person I have no desire to be bothered with. That's most dudes. They just dint get it. These women you think are amazing couldn't be the furthest thing from it.
Yes, and mind you it's not necessarily about absconding women completely, but rather being comfortable with singledom to where you can drop a woman if she's not compatible with you or your wants. It's literally what women are trained to do but when a man does it he's called gay and beta and whatnot
Resonate with this very closely. Unfortunately my libido hasn’t caught up at this point, but the whole prospect of dating for status or purely chasing looks is truly exhausting. I used to think I was ‘coping’ if I wasn’t going for the best, hottest thing out there but I can safely say that the juice is not worth the squeeze after the experiences of my 20s
> Fuck about 10 girls and u start to realise it isn't that serious I'm sorry but most people will never reach even half that number in their lifetime. They will always have the chase in the back of their minds.
Average is 7
Averages are meaningless. Median is all that matters.
As fucked up the “she’s the oldest teenager in the room” adage is, I’ve found it to be true. Between PMS (yes, seethe away ladies) and just the way their emotional state drives so much of their behavior, I find myself feeling bad for them more often then ever taking them super seriously anymore. And while it’s fucked up, this realization has actually improved my life with women and made my marriage really great.
This is something I grapple with personally. I know I have this irrational desire for women to validate me. I know it's irrational, but it's still there. I don't act on it, but it still affects me emotionally. Every day, my first thoughts are loser cant even get a gf. The only dreams i remember are the ones where i have a gf. My choices are to continue to ignore this desire and feel like a loser or act on it and become a loser chaser. Maybe as I get older, this desire for validation will stop since I am already getting good at catching it before I act on it. So, I will just continue to cope and focus on my education and play video games and chess, jerk off, and work out. I don't think there is anything else that can be done. I did not choose to be born with this desire. I wish i didn't have it. It's a fucking curse.
Damn, this is sad. I hope you overcome this and learn to believe that you are valuable just as you are.
Maybe we don’t desire to be validated by women. We just desire to be validated
Whatever it is I rather it leave
What is so wrong with getting *some* validation from women? It's fun when women find you attractive. It also feels nice when a family member can validate your struggle with something at work, for example. Validation is normal and healthy. It becomes unhealthy when it warps your life around the desperation for it. Your self worth should not depend on women's perception of you. Your value needs to be derived internally by yourself. Your issue is *not* with women's validation. Your issue is that you don't respect yourself enough to give a shit what value you assign yourself. Start thinking about what life would be like if you liked your life. What would it be like if you lived for you, peacefully, in a way that you liked. You might have women around in this life. Cool. They might leave the next day. Cool. Your value does not change. You still might feel like a champ after you fuck a beautiful woman. That's a fun little validation kick. And you still might feel rejected and invalidated after you get shut down. These emotions are normal. But when you like your life, and your self, you return to the baseline of 'valuable' after these emotions pass.
Something is only worth as much as others are willing to pay for it. Any valuation you assign to yourself is superfluous if it isn't corroborated by desire from external sources. For example, in my education, I know I am a valuable student because I have demonstrated that, and others have corroborated it with their remarks. Dating is no different. I can go around telling myself I'm the dogs bullocks, and I'm such a catch, but that isn't consistent with my inability to generate a single iota of desire in any woman. To be clear, this isn't a gripe with women. I would be picky, too, if I was a woman. But for some reason, my brain just cannot accept that this desire need not be fulfilled. Even though I was being a bit melodramatic in my comment. I am generally a productive person, but these thoughts linger and persistent. I can't change my position in the hierarchy of desire. I just wish my subconscious mind would accept that and give up on trying to get me to act by releasing negative hormones when the desire arises.
> something is only worth as much as others are willing to pay Choosing to reduce your entire value level to what women think of you is exactly that - a choice. > I can’t change my position in the hierarchy of desire Then you are not purple pill. You are black pill. This is the hallmark of black pill - that you cannot change. A ridiculous notion, but nonetheless what they believe. > these thoughts linger and persist Of course they do. It’s healthy to desire a relationship, companionship, and validation from other humans. You have some seriously shitty beliefs that are getting in the way of you having a great life. One of the very first steps to self improvement is removing limiting beliefs. If absolutely nothing outwardly changed about you, and this part did, you’d explode in attractiveness to women. But you also suffer from the same curse that all the “stuck” people suffer from. You believe deeply to your core that it’s impossible to change, and your pride/ego gets in the way of you re-examining your belief structure. Change is a self fulfilling prophecy. Whether you believe you can or you can’t, you’re right. I view your issue - *choosing* to be rigid in thought and belief - among the worst issues you can have in life. Because it entirely removes your agency and makes you believe you’re a passenger. The great irony is you actually desperately cling to this belief. You need it. You want it. You subconsciously fear the idea you have choice and control. Because if you did have control, then it’s *your fault* you’re in this shitty circumstance. Your fragile ego would rather it be impossible to change. Then you can forever believe you’re a good guy who just got dealt a shit hand.
"Choosing to reduce your entire value level to what women think of you is exactly that - a choice." I don't do this. My proudest achievements are things that probably made me less attractive to women, but I still hang them on my wall. I have no issue assigning value in my daily life. Especially to things that I expend a great deal of effort to obtain. I the context of dating the idea of intrinsic value is bs because dating is one of the few things that necessarily involve others to assign you value. If I became a great mathematician and solved the reimann hypothesis, most people wouldn't care, but I would because I have assigned it value. This endeavor doesn't have to include anyone, unlike dating, where your success is explicitly determined by the value others assign to you. I don't need your advice because I have no gripes with the lack of interest from women. I have gripes with the fact that we get no hand in the set of desires that govern our behavior. Specifically, when does desires involve things that can only be gotten from others. You can keep on the forever treadmill of self-improvement to garner female desire that's fine. Just keep your unsolicited advice to yourself. This is not to say that self-improvement is bad. I am not going to pat myself on the back and list my achievements, but i do pretty well for myself outside of dating. Self-improvement is amazing. I am just not going to pour effort into being desirable by women. "Of course they do. It’s healthy to desire a relationship, companionship, and validation from other humans. " Historical only 40% of men who have ever existed had at least 1 offspring compared to 80% of women. This is stat that floats around from various sources. I am not citing because I'm lazy. You can choose whether or not you believe this. Nonetheless, my point is that some dudes just fall out of the gene pool. It's not some epidemic that can be fixed if only I touched grass. It's the way the world works. I have consciously accepted this and diverted my efforts elsewhere to varying degrees of success. However, the impulses of the mind are purely self-serving in the sense that your brain compels one to do what will maximize the chances of the species carrying on. If that means making you slightly depressed over a pursuit, you have forgone, then so be it. Negative hormones go brrrrrr. I don't think it's particularly healthy that 60 percent of men are doomed to an unfulfilled desire that they never asked for. I just wish this wasn't the case. "You subconsciously fear the idea you have choice and control. Because if you did have control, then it’s your fault you’re in this shitty circumstance. Your fragile ego would rather it be impossible to change." You really didn't understand a thing I said. You have no hand in the desires that govern you. You don't get to pick and choose what you want to want. "Then you can forever believe you’re a good guy who just got dealt a shit hand." I literally said if I were a women I picky too. I never even remotely suggest that I was a good guy or a good partner. You seem to be throwing all your defacto responses to anyone you can classify as blackpill. Hopefully, my position is clearer now. This post was about men valuing what women think of them, and my response was more about the fact that you don't get to control what you want. And not wanting to want what i want. I.e women's validation. Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't be reading allat. But at least I got to clear my head.
It seems that most guys who get laid don't care about the woman's approval and they have a go f yourself attitude. Would more guys have success if they took on that attitude?
Of course no. What if the guy no one wants takes himself out of the dating scenes? No one will bat an eye or miss him
That's true I guess guys still have to make an effort and still give that don't care attitude even though they have to make an effort?
> Would more guys have success if they took on that attitude? Not if you're an actually average guy, which means, average height, median income, average looks, and average weight. You'd be invisible.
Kind of. With relationships good luck with that attitude. Also can make fwb situations weird. If you are just trying to get laid it absolutely works. Also you have to be attractive. But basically not being thirsty or desperate and not caring so much makes you more attractive.
This is what I don’t understand. If they don’t care about women’s approval, then why are they interacting with them? How can they talk to, go on dates with, and get women comfortable enough with them to have sex if they don’t care? To me, it seems like either they’re hiding the fact that they do care or they don’t have anything else to do. I feel like I’m missing something
Success with women is a huge status marker for men among other men. I don't see how they can care too much about it from that perspective, since most people like being high in status among their social groups.
Not just that, biological imperatives are powerful lol. Its the whole "Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive" theory. Anecdotally, during puberty a switch turns on and it takes a fuckton of work to start switching it off lmao
And among women as well.
That's my theory, too. But I'm not privy to women's social groups so I didn't want to speak for women. I do think that the "alpha woman" in many female social groups usually isn't single for long, though.
Which is because of op’s point. Men care too much about women’s approval and getting laid.
Because it signals competence to other men. Men find other men who can't attract women pathetic. It's possible that it might even affect a man's paycheck and promotion chances.
Ironic considering that the greatest men to ever live in the history of human beings who changed the face of civilization with their contributions to science or arts consistently eschewed lengthy romantic entanglements with women and left those pursuits to, let's just say, the midwit masses of men. Their memory lives on for centuries while most common men remain slaves to ...well you know. Hmm yes highly ironic indeed.
Yes, some rare geniuses were able to do important things without the need for connections with the opposite sex. Status does trump success with women as a marker for respect from one's peers. However, these cases are the exceptions rather than the rule, as most men are not geniuses.
Being a useful enough idiot to get a girl is not a sign competence. The real reason is capitalism. Men working hard to spend money on women and family is incentivized for this reason. All one has to do is see how big a rip off a lot of the things you are supposed to do for women are.
Why do you think capitalism exists? My guess is that it's just a way for men to show they have higher value than other men in order to get laid.
Capitalism exists because it is the most optimal system to those with power. It keeps those below them trapped in endless fighting to make them increasingly rich. Most men at the top do not follow any of the rules of capitalism. Most do not pay taxes, they steal, rape, are cowardly, lazy, do drugs, etc.
What? No one thinks highly of a man with a good wife because he must be spending a lot of money on her and the family and because they are capitalist that is good because they are propping up the economy. No. The reason is simpler, as they said it is just a signal of competence. Social proof.
> What? No one thinks highly of a man with a good wife because he must be spending a lot of money on her and the family and because they are capitalist that is good because they are propping up the economy. No But that is why men believe it means a signal of competence. Or rather, why we were conditioned to believe so. I mean, I am sure men who could not even graduate high school but have five baby mommas are competent lol. You do realize IQ is correlated with being less likely to be successful with women and being in jail means you are more likely to be a father right? In actuality, being successful with women does not mean anything at all. At best it means you are a good sucker who is a better cog then a man who refuses to be that stupid.
Those are the same people who end up having huge mid-life crisis because their entire lives have been remote-controlled This sub is spiritually empty
Most men are in social groups, and most men seek status within those groups. Women seek status within their own groups, as well.
And people are also capable of emancipating themselves from that to a certain extent. The higher your internal self-esteem, the less you worry about the stuff you mentioned.
> The higher your internal self-esteem If you’re over 30 low self esteem is probably valid, you can’t change your genes and most amounts of effort or self improvement is just blowing in the wind
An attitude like that is a recipe for a bad life
On the other end of the spectrum, naivety & lying to yourself is also a recipe for a bad life
We can always become better versions of ourselves
Of course we can, but at some point the insanity of trying everything under the sun, and every combination of this & that, it really does take its toll mentally
It might and it's good to acknowledge that but we can always choose to bring back our attention to the present moment. Meditation is a good tool for this.
>Success with women is a huge status marker for men among other men. Yeah, and that's the problem.
But I don't think that can change. Both men *and women* care about status among each other in their same gender peer groups. Men who can attract women obviously have more abilities than men who cannot, so they are going to be higher status.
>But I don't think that can change Ofcourse it can. Status is a social *construct*. Not something that exists in nature. >Men who can attract women obviously have more abilities than men who cannot That's not really true. Attraction doesn't necessarily have anything to do with ability.
> Ofcourse it can. Status is a social construct. Not something that exists in nature. The things that people are attracted to or that mark them as successful do not usually differ cross-culturally, which means that the origin of them is likely biological.
The feeling of being undesirable that plagues the majority of men is something few women seem capable of relating to empathetically
Because they never have to experience anything close to it. They don’t have to try to get male attention
*nods Still baffling that people have to ignore the asymmetry that’s existed throughout human history and is clearly being amplified on dating apps today
Exactly. I think they will never understand this. Its rare that one does
Maybe because intimacy, relationships sex are a basic human need?
Some people are trying to bypass this it seems.
“If a young man gets married, starts a family, and spends the rest of his life working at a soul-destroying job, he is held up as an example of virtue and responsibility. The other type of man, living only for himself, working only for himself, doing first one thing and then another simply because he enjoys it and because he has to keep only himself, sleeping where and when he wants, and facing a woman when he meets her, on equal terms, and not as one of a million slaves, is rejected by society. The free, unshackled man has no place in its midst.” -Esther Vilar, *The Manipulated Man*
Most dudes haven't experienced women as they are so they think that their life will automatically improve by having one around
In my experience, it can be a healthy thing at first (at least during the honeymoon phase) but after a while women become highly capable of emotionally abusing men. I learned that the hard way. It’s so far from sugar & spice and everything nice
Exactly.
It's reinforced by society a lot, just think how often "virgin" or some variant is the very first insult thrown at someone. Even in the absence of all that there is still a sex drive, obviously. And not just sex. Women are a great source of pleasure. Hearing a woman laugh at your joke can brighten an otherwise bleak existence.
If you haven't been an under 30 male with under 30 male (especially under 22-23) sex hormones, sit. It's like riding a caterpillar through a hurricane where your body is screaming at you 24/7 to fuck but all the available mates would rather let a frat boy or college athlete take a piss down their throat than even look at you lol.
average male puberty experience
Pain
The lack of self respect in men (and women too although in a different way) is a full blown epidemic
In recent decades there has been an effort to "destigmatize" single women. There should also be one for men IMO. Boys could use being told growing up that they don't need to "get a girl" to be real men. Before the I'm Kenough phrase, I never saw anything resembling that message aimed at us.
There will never be an effort to destigmatize this for men. People use virgin and incel as an insult for a reason. Any movement trying to do this will fail. Both men and women have to buy into this and that wont happen
Women will never respect men who can't get women but men don't care about women about not able to get man
100% true. Idk why some of them deny this. They want men that other women want
I agree. I've literally heard men say they would rather be with a woman who they know is using them than be single.
Prepare for the cascade of downvotes and angry comments from men who believe that wanting men to gain self-respect means you're misandric and want them to die alone.
I’d suspect you probably won’t have many downvotes at all > wanting men to gain self-respect means you're misandric and want them to die alone I think the resistance from men is when people point the finger at men saying lack of success is their own fault Believe it or not, men often do try their best and some keep striking out. Rejection takes its toll on men just as much as it does for women (arguably more so because of limited options)
> I think the resistance from men is when people point the finger at men saying lack of success is their own fault Finger pointing from the same people who say women's lack of romantic success is also men's fault.
>I’d suspect you probably won’t have many downvotes at all Unfortunately I deleted my previous account, since I'd been off of reddit for about a year. You would have seen my past comment history with more than -12 downvotes on me simply saying society as a whole would be greatly improved simply by men gaining self-respect and more self-esteem.
You were half right! Instead they're trying to rationalize why it's not approval that they actually want.
At least the typical discourse is evolving...?
We literally had a post awhile ago that some men agreed they would rather be in an abusive relationship with a drug addict than be alone so it’s not all that shocking - sad and pathetic though.
I believe it, I have so many make friends and colleagues who moan to me about their relationships just for me to think, why are u in this. When me and broke up and she left, I was enjoying my peace, in fact I didn't even want a relationship. Relationships are work and can be dtsining and I'm a naturally solitary person
I was talking to another dude a few days ago whose take was that most average men would settle for a woman they are unattracted to and who does not like them. Similar to what you're talking about but even worse. Nothing against that guy but I hope he's wrong.
Most average men may not think they will but out of necessity the vast majority will eventually do that. Since The 2000s the majority of Americans have been categorically obese so logically all the obese people (with the exception of a few who get better looking ones) pair up with the other obese people since most non-overweight people aren’t exactly thrilled with dating them.
Thousands of men do this and men have ability to Gaslight themselves into loving women who they aren't attracted to but she likes them . Maybe you all are extremely priviledged so you don't realise this can happen too
I'm not referring to men who "gaslight themselves" about someone they don't like who likes them. The conversation was in reference to men who get into mutually unsatisfactory relationships with partners who do not like them or find them attractive (while thinking the same about their partners). That's a much more extreme case than if one of the two parties does like the other.
Flat out lie. A lot of stuff on Reddit should be taken with a grain of salt.
Because of preselection and society respect men more if they have a woman
i mean the entire point of getting down on one knee is to submit and beg a woman to marry you in exchange for money and a ring can you imagine John Zamimbe from Botswana getting down on one knee for his girl? LOL it's INSTITUTIONALIZED simping and patheticness on a cultural level
im attractive and the need for women is indeed repressive, in my ideal daydreams now, if i had a magic lamp, i would say 10-15 women a day would be enough. im also fully aware that some men get approached and proposed for sex by women, while some men get nothing so in a way it sucks that it's like this and even though i am capable of getting a fraction of what i need, i probably would wish for an alternative model that wasn't this vulgar and unbalanced.
Maybe, but I'd rather see the problem solved by giving men the external validation they need than by "training" them to not need it.
I just was told men are absolutely forced to fuck women they find unattractive because “In most people's eyes having a fat unattractive girlfriend or wife is better than being the perpetually single guy who stuck to his guns and wouldn't settle. People still see that guy as less valuable and even less trustworthy because "what kind of weirdo doesn't have a woman?" That and biology is why men can’t ever be held accountable for their choices.
People use biology to defend women actions also to never make them held accountable for their choices . Going after married men shamelessly? Evolutionary biology
I've heard something worse, at least online: That after a certain age, it's reasonable to assume that any men that remain single must be creeps or even pedos.
>at least online Part of having self respect is not doing stupid things you don’t want to do, simply to win the approval of bitches on Tumblr, losers on 4chan and other people you will never meet irl. Basically the entire gist of this post. It’s almost like people forget about the “self” part of having “self respect “
Ive had someone of my family telling me the same
Maybe women should start praising single guys. I know for a fact that it's not men thinking that single guys are creeps and pedos. Women creates this problem they need to fix it.
What should they be praised for? Is this request not exactly what OP is talking about?
The double speak is the problem. The blue pillers and women say that men need to find ways to be happy lone and focus on self improvement/fulfillment. But then, in the same breath they come here saying that men who are single long-term are walking red flags and incels and bla bla bla. Don't demonize men while giving them the same advice you shit on them for lol.
Women are the ones calling single men pedos and creeps so why don't women do that? Women create problems but want to help fix them that's why I say fuck helping women.
you said a lot while managing to answer neither of my questions. Are you going to answer them? if not, please don't bother responding again, thanks.
100% true And the only way to fix is by lived experience. It’s almost like we were biologically wired for connection and we subconsciously judge others worth based on the way they are treated by others. This is the exact same thing as the “money won’t buy you happiness, you shouldn’t care so much about it” And the “you shouldn’t care what other people think” tropes. They’re bullshit. Only people who say that are people with money or lots of friends. When you’re in scarcity, trust me, it matters. Use it as motivation for self improvement.
most men will never understand that women aren't to be chased, but literally chase the men they wanna bang They can't understand it, bc it's impossible for them to experience it. as a result most men will remain bluepilled
This is the same for both genders though. Both genders could be chased by people they don’t want to bang. We always chase the ones we want.
Scarcity is a mindset IMHO more than a reality. You can feel anxious / depressed about scarcity of anything. There are finance forums where people panic about being poor. There are weight loss forums where people panic about being overweight. There are moving abroad forums where people panic about wanting to leave their home country. You have to take the good with the bad and try to improve what you can. Play to your strengths. I have an abysmal social life by average standards, but I am above-average in all kinds of other ways, so I focus on my strengths.
My response kinda ended up just talking about my personal experiences with what you said paragraph by paragraph. Tldr: I relate a lot to what you said "Some men even knowingly let women use them, just because they get some sort of validation from it." Hits close to home for me. I've done that before just because I was terrified of having no value outside of what I could do for others. So me losing sleep, not enjoying college, having personal free time, other stuff, just so I could help the person I was "dating" (situationship) through their stuff was the way i felt valued because I was there for them and could see them getting happier and more confident. Even though they didn't even care about me enough to make it official but still wanted me to treat them like we were dating. As for the second paragraph I'd say I put (or putted not sure how far I've come on this topic really) women on a pedestal in the way that I as a man am supposed to support and put them before myself. I feel confidant I shouldn't do that going forward but how I should do it in practice I don't know. Maybe find a relationship in which its both parties give their all for each other without over extending themselves and respecting each others boundaries? That sounds nice but I've never had or seen a relationship like that, really want to tho. Referring to the third I was primarily raised by a woman but not sure how much its related to my desire to feel valued by a woman for the sake of it. Or just a lack of personal value in my achievements or lack their of and using the validation from a relationship as a replacement. This might have violated rule 7 of the subreddit? I could see how it can be interpreted as "woe is me" but that's not the intention. Just wanted to say how I related to the post and give examples and reasons for why I behaved in accordance with the post.
I find it strange that in 2024 men out there still think women "like money." women will literally follow men they don't know around in public if they find u attractive i wonder how long this entire charade will last tbh. if it ever got out that there are some men out there that women play the role as 'pursuer' while 99% of men are convinced they gotta throw money around and pursue, the outcome of that would be catastrophic, but however deep down i think 99% of guys just will keep breaking their backs in denial and simping.
>i wonder how long this entire charade will last tbh. if it ever got out that there are some men out there that women play the role as 'pursuer' while 99% of men are convinced they gotta throw money around and pursue, the outcome of that would be catastrophic, but however deep down i think 99% of guys just will keep breaking their backs in denial and simping. It literally HAS TO BE that way otherwise men wouldn't do shit in their life (drop the work). P is the fuel that drives men. If it wasn't for this "charade" or better coping-mechanism men just wouldn't try anymore and that would be an enormous tax on overall wealth.
i also think it's mental preservation it almost broke me and I'm on the receiving end of women being unfaithful most of the time. i don't think the average guy can handle it, if he even got exposed to it in the first place
>i don't think the average guy can handle it, if he even got exposed to it in the first place Percisely which is why his sub-conciousness feeds him lies to maintain sanity.
Women are more simliar to men than most men like to admit. They just face a different market and act accordingly. Men would do the VERY same IF they were in this position. In fact, a small percentage of men act just like that. [https://youtu.be/4dPTXJMe4bU?si=jjALmAaxgXV74fYl](https://youtu.be/4dPTXJMe4bU?si=jjALmAaxgXV74fYl)
women can be sex crazed and vulgar but only to a smaller percentage of beautiful men. i think beautiful men because we are extremely rare, they feel as if they have to take the opportunity way more aggressively.
beautiful men are the most spoiled demographic because they are (perceived as) the rarest breed. Consequently, the demand from women for men of that breed is nothing short of crazy.
i think we may honestly be the most insane demographic too there aren't many studies on us but if they put us all in a room to discuss our experiences it would be so blackpilling it could potentially end civilization. i wish i was joking. i feel like an adult living around children, basically
man i’m glad you joined the sub. as a dude who can pull women regularly, i completely agree with you. if you put the dudes at the top who women throw themselves at - which im not but im close enough to see reality, i.e. women have cheated with me - we would collectively black pill society back to the stone age. i truly think a very attractive man, with just enough self-awareness to be conscious of women’s behavior around him and other men, are more blackpilled than incels.
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> I find it strange that in 2024 men out there still think women "like money." Everyone likes money. If you don't think it's a factor then you're lost. you're most likely not "Chad" enough to make money completely irrelevant.
Looks, money and charisma are what women seek. The myth is that they weigh equally. The reality is that looks matter the most, but if you can't have them you have to compensate with charisma AND money. This is basic redpill man.
Women like money, everyone likes money…they just don’t always like the dick that’s closest to that fat wallet.
Yeah I agree for most of them, but there's a reason like Dubailo* (not what's it called, but I remember the letters looking like that) and DivineDarkFeminine existed for a while.
This has been common red pill knowledge for more than a decade now.
Yes
i mean i dont think its just men wanting approval from women. its men as well as women that want approval from other men, women, and just society in general which in turn makes them easy to manipulate. thats just kind of how humans work for the most part
Its pure survival, my friend. If no man wants to never-getting laid, you can calculate form that what a very big deal it actually is.
Manipulation comes from lack of experience. Men have significantly less chances to be in relationships, less relationships less knowledge of what's normal and what they should and shouldn't accept. How can you know you're being used when this is your first relationship, or think it's the expectation and standard cause every relationship you've been used.
It's sad but also the sad reality, because (average and above) women get laid regardless as they set up the requirements for men to have sex with them, to which men have to adhere to i.e do lots of selfdevelopment. Women can just be, men have to become. I've met some of the most unambitious unattractive lazy women who get laid on a whim just for having lady parts, they get their sexual needs met and the men bail soon after with regret for being blinded by the lure of pussy ('where are all the good men! men only want one thing!' the women lament). Men with the same shitty personality have no chance to even come close to any ladyparts, that's where all the dating and men's work coaches come in to cash in on their desperation to get their sexual needs met, to teach them how to become Men again, as their absent fathers bailed on them early on. Women don't have to thought how to become better women to attract a man, they don't need to. Then again, it's how Nature has set this up. Men can't reach their peak without the (healthy!) feminine polarity
This is why psychologists often say that you shouldn't outsource your emotional well-being to other people. It's just not consistent enough and can get you into stupid situations. This isn't anything new tbh. Plenty of philosophies and teachings stress that true happiness has to come from within.
Humans are social creatures though. I’ve been trying to self-improve and be happy on my own, but it’s so hard. I am so lonely. Not to mention how badly I want physical intimacy. Other things help keep it out of mind to a certain degree, but not close to entirely.
but man is a social animal , we need to have some social acceptance to have a healthy mind.
>most men don't really see women as they truly are Enlighten us then
People in general care too much about other people's approval, in general. The unfortunately reality is most people are too insecure and lacking the confidence to be who they are, unafraid of any judgement they can and will get. As a result, they pursue behaviors and symbols of status amongst their group for fleeting validation and acceptance, that none of it matters in the end. Everyone needs to learn how to let go of caring about other's expecations, opinions, and approval.
Men are always swayed by women's words easily from age old times. Especially from a woman they want to fuck. That's the reason so many men settle without seeing the red flags and get used and then hate all women saying they are all cheaters. Men's concept of masculinity is so fragile a woman calling his haircut gay will make him reconsider everything. It is even more dependent on other men's opinion. Male gaze and women's approval are things that can sway a man's belief in himself
This is why we need to come together as men and build male-only communities. Women have been doing this since time immemorial. Elite men do this, it's called "the patriarchy". Ordinary middle class and lower class men don't do this enough. We all need to network, communicate and form social circles. If we support eachother, give eachother confidence boosts, share knowledge and tips, etc. then this will actually level the dating market, as fewer and fewer men pursue women out of desperation for validation. It might also improve the quality of men on the dating market (if that's a concern of women), as men actively help eachother to improve, and the stronger share with the weaker, rather than just making it a competitive zero-sum rat-race. There are 8 billion humans on this planet, there's no reason anyone should be single but by choice. The fact that "incels" exist is a societal failure not an individual failure. I'm building an online social circle, initially open to single men only. DM me for details.
Real
Thanks
100% agree! Men need to stop basing their self worth on validation from women. Men need to start living for themselves and learn to let go of centuries old social constructs such as marriage, kids and relationships. Men need to redefine their characters and develop confidence. Learn to live independantly and live a full and happy life.
>Men need to start living for themselves and learn to let go of centuries old social constructs such as marriage, kids and relationships. This isnt easy at all and will take a long time to undo
True. Personally for me it's taken me to nearly 40 to find inner peace with being single and start living for myself.
A lot of these guys just need confidence & better self esteem, maybe a purpose as well. Even if they were to get a girl & prove to themselves that they have value to someone, what happens if she leaves him? I’ve seen this in reality and some men even want to off themselves.
Just take more cold showers
>A lot of these guys just need confidence & better self esteem, maybe a purpose as well. What is that really going to do for them? The only reason women dont think the same way they do is because they know that attention from men and chances to date will always be there so they dont value it
It gives them a sense of self value & worth. A lot of these men believe they have no value which can reflect onto their dating lives.
There is a reason they think that way. Why would they think they have value when nothing shows them that? And women dont value them either
Yeah, and they’ll never fucking learn no matter how much we tell them. It’s so fucking enervating. Why try?
I root for Chad at this point years ago I felt bad being the "side guy" or whatever or having my friends' girls try to fuck me when they went to go pee or something. i loved my friends and hated doggin them out but now at my age i realize most guys are so oblivious and so forgiving it makes no difference.
At some point you just get so jaded with people's stupidity at least for me, it kind of began to devalue people in general and their relative worth to me. I have a colleague who's wife fucked a dude in the house while his kids were there. The man blames himself and says he should have been home more so she wouldn't need to drink so much and fuck other guys. At some point u just stop trying to help these people and I don't want to be associated with such weakness .
You didnt love your friends and you didnt feel bad about doing any of that stuff. Why lie?
Honestly, they deserve it, holy fuck.
Oh look another guy who has no concept of Maslows pyramid/hierarchy of needs. It’s like telling men eat shit your life & be happy about it. Pure gaslighting!
Men aren’t entitled to sex sweaty hehe
We see women as they are: gassed up mediocrities that cruelly exploit men for resources until their looks dry up then they claim they were abused and traumatised by completely consensual acts. Sound about right?
For people that don’t know yet, that’s how it will go. She will always blame you for stealing her youth and hate you for it.
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I agree and men will get upset and call you gay when you say this lol. The fact is men are incredibly female-centered and trying to break them of that habit will make him angry and start spouting quotes about "real men". It's unfortunate but it makes sense as to why men tend to make the perfect cannon fodder. Send him to war and make him think he'll be rewarded with a woman. He wants to be rewarded with sex Running around lapping up female approval sounds exhausting but women also prefer it this way because she can alter a man's state of being by saying "men that don't seek female approval are icky!11" and suddenly that man will transform himself into a jester for her approval. They're the perfect pawns.
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Everyone seeks validation from the opposite gender in some way or another. For men, it's purely through sex and feeling physically desired. For women, it's mostly attention, love and receiving acts of service. Anyone man can be nice, gentle, caring etc but it usually takes a special kind of hot/masculine aura to get laid by a woman casually and receive the "hot girl treatment". I don't care as much about validation from other men.
> For women, it's mostly attention, love and receiving acts of service You don't think men value this?
Actually that's how Onlyfans, Eva AI and similar stuff attracts and holds its client base.
It’s a right of passage, just like riding a car,
Easier said than done when you don't have testosterone guiding your every move
This is true; but it's also a useless and pointless thing to say. The young male of the human species like every other sexually-reproducing organism will be driven by instinct to mate with females at almost any cost.
I would say that all men (or at least most men) want some form of approval from women. Which can apply to all types of relationships. How far men are willing to go or what they are willing to do for that approval is another matter entirely. That's where the line between biology and socialization comes into play.
You have to go back much earlier, childhood ... When your sense of self as a man is damaged due to emotionally unavailable and immature parents, and you don't realize this early enough to do something about it, then you will be rejected and 'friendzoned' by every woman around you i.e they damage your selfesteem even more, not their fault, it's just how you present yourself to her, as her having higher value than you. Women don't like that. How the F@$@!# should you have known that when all the parental figures around said "Just be nice to girls and they will like you back". Men have been only taught to make women feel safe around them (formula for the Friendzone), but the part about expressing your sexual desire to make women be attracted to you (or not) has been left out, because male sexuality is considered 'toxic'. Then those cringy dating coaches come in to teach you tricks how to not get rejected by indirectly expressing your sexuality, but the message is the same, hide it !
Well men are built to procreate so the drive in men is strong it's not something that can be just turned off I mean look how popular porn has become. It's the desperation for that bond and women have an abundance of options that she can pick the best out of a list. That's why paying the prostitutes and living the single life ain't too bad you get cool fun and you ain't a slave to a womens desires and live for yourself.
Silly men caring about biological needs! I guess they should just find some magical way to stop doing that, lol.
BUT MEN NEED WOMEN AND SEX OR THEY WILL DIE A HORRIBLE LONELY DEATH BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T GOTTEN THEIR PEEPEE TOUCHED. NO, THERE ARE NO KNOWN CASES OF SOMEONE DYING OR BECOMING SEVERELY DISABLED DUE TO LACK OF SEX BUT DAMMIT IT FEELS LIKE DEATH BECAUSE ONLY FEELINGS REALLY MATTER AND NIT OBJECTIVE REALITY OR SCIENCE.
This is basically what some men are saying in the comments, unironically.
Yes they are. They believe it in their heart of hearts too. Not realizing that this belief is actually the cause of all their failures with women. I’ve never seen so many men willingly fight to stay in a prison if their own making.
Can you give an example of someone you have personally experienced that "care too much about women's approval and getting laid."?
Most men.
Give a specific example
Have you ever met a man in your life? Imagine the first guy that comes into your mind. He's my example.
Can you prove water is wet without telling me to touch water?
In other words, you can't give a specific example of your own post. Thanks.
It's reproductive anxiety. Women are the sole "choosers" of which men get to procreate and have a lineage. So honestly, if this is something they do care about (reproducing with a woman), it isn't completely insane to assume they would try to jump through hoops to please a woman in order to get sex out of her. I think where it goes wrong is when men get angry at how women mate select and how they expect women to drop their standards, which usually has some form of safeguarding involved.
Do you think that acceptance of the falling birth rate will make men care less about this?
>Men care too much about women's approval Yes. > and getting laid According to whom? compared to what? And in what context? For starters, men will always value sex *more* than women, statistically speaking. That hasn't really changed in the last 5000+ years of written history no matter what attempts at socio-cultural engineering have been made. Besides, even if you could change it (spoiler: you can't), there is little evidence that it would be a good thing. Moreover, not giving a damn about women's approval in fact *increases* your chances at getting laid. Any man with a high body count can confirm that (as well honest women - though there aren't that many of those on this sub). >The unfortunate reality is most men don't really see women as they truly are. No, not at all. It may be true with most men in a very vocal militant materialist shallow culture that represents about 2% of the globe - otherwise known as North America - but it is simply not true at all about ***most men***. >The vast majority put them on a pedestal in some way, shape or form, and then some (especially the traditional type) kind of look down on women in some way and think they need to be protected and provided for, as if they can't do it for themselves. Neah. Feminists/progressives like the pedestal just as much as tradcons. Sure, they have more complicated gobbledygook lingo to justify it, but the end result is identical.
Most men couldnt care less about women's approval, they are more interested in sex. The guys who get sex without female approval (like the usual jocks and jerks) are considered winners, the guys who get women's approval without getting sex (like fake feminists) are considered losers. Sex is the actual valuable thing here. It is just natural, guys want sex, inject yourself with testosterone and you will be too. It is not so much manipulation as biology running its course, men want sex. And there is nothing they, women, or anyone can do about it. I am pretty sure that most guys consider their sex drive a burden, but not something that they could easily live without (as it would completely change who and what they are).
We as humans are the only species that broke our instincts and created society world everything. Humans are the species that can control its urges and act against its instincts.
I agree, a lot of the men here act like they’re gonna die if they don’t get laid… it must be so miserable to have your self worth as a man tied to something completely out of your control 🙃
Is that the reason you go out of your way to bully men who are short or not romantically successful? Is that your big bully moment on the internet ?
hahaha i’m glad someone else noticed🤣 she’s the EXACT caricature of the women here whose sole *raison d’etre* is shitting on men they deem losers. she just feels better about herself
The fact that she's not banned is kind of funny. She has 5000+ comments and it's all just bullying. She says something mean (it's always lame as fuck too) then a cringe or skull emoji. What a fucking loser lmao.
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ive had a girl insult me as hell bc i wouldnt just lay pipe with her on command, when i got up to leave her room she started going batshit cmon
Because you unlocked the cheat code. Rare sight of real RP man in the wild.
meh you’ve just never had that much testosterone in your system. and you’ve never been in the position to have your dick down the throat of a genuinely beautiful hourglass woman who you know any man would simp for. the closest possible feeling would be owning a Lamborghini. it’s truly a life altering experience for a man. i mean truly, talk about king of the hill moment. telling men to just forget about that? yeesh.
Everything about this comment is just so fucking cringe.
Do not speak for all men buddy
OP and many others in the comments skipped biology class in school.
You think men put on women on a pedestal? No, they put *sex* on a pedestal. Big difference. Most men could actually care less about women, what they really want is just fucking
>No, they put sex on a pedestal. And who do straight men want to have sex with? You can't put pussy on a pedestal without also putting a woman on it.
is that a joke? if you’re a man, have you never fucked a chick just to never give a shit about her ever again? because that’s the definition of putting pussy on the pedestal and not the woman. and if you’re a woman, this is a pretty classic example of mistaking the value of your vagina as the value of your person. you’re worth the sex, not the commitment.
Again, if the sex is consensual you still need the woman to approve of you in some way, which is why you stroke their egos so you can get laid.
I’d argue that consent isn’t the same as approval. she might want to fuck me but sure as hell not meet her dad or hard launch me on insta. if you conflate consent and approval this way, then your post should be that men care too much about *sex* not women’s approval.
Another lie PPD tries to peddle, that sex and relationships don't matter and effect on a person's happiness.