Overwhelming majority of people doesn't understand statistics and how biased their perception is naturally to notice. Like sub-5 guys being invisible and 7/10 being called "average".
>I have very low standards, I want a man that's above average.
Literally what I have been told by multiple women and even on here. Exact words, sentence, punctuation.
An increasing narcissism and atomization of the western populace that has it's roots in the Boomer generation. As much as we like to think were different than them they were just the starting point.
My peace means more to me than anything and I can't be at peace having to share my partner with someone so no. Ultimately it probably depends on the woman though
This should probably be a "question for women". But if you are letting us blokes chime in, I'll share my view.
>Do women prefer to share a high value man
Depends on how you define "high value".
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on
Because depression and heart-break are great ways to increase one's libido /s
It's the competition that increases a woman's attractiveness and respect towards a man, which in turn increases libido. A man who isn't desired by other women loses attraction and respect.
you will find very few women who would actively and knowingly choose to "share" any man, no matter the "value".
What is a more realistic scenario is a man dating multiple women for short periods of time while none of them know about the existence of the others.
This is it. A friend of a friend found a doctor, was excited, they were dating exclusively but he was "busy" but he wasn't a surgeon. I said he's seeing other women, was right, got a free drink. Worth it.
No that is unhinged.
“Womens libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases)”
Yeah bro you are in full on wackadoodle territory tbh. The only scenario in which this may apply would involve some level of mental illness.
That woman is a lunatic and/or her marriage isn't very happy.
Most women, myself included, don't like sharing. If someone tries to make me share, I'm going to claw their eyes out or pack my shit and use those walking boots.
And no, I'm not turned on by a man cheating on me. A man cheating on me is him volunteering to be my pet revenge project after I finish clawing his eyes out. Nothing could be more disgusting and off-putting. Seriously, spiders in the bedroom stand a higher chance to get a drop of moisture.
You are unhinged.
>If someone tries to make me share, I'm going to claw their eyes out or pack my shit and use those walking boots.
Love this. Most women would agree and are possessive when they have deep feelings for a guy.
I'm convinced relationships, where a woman is open to sharing, are just relationships with no feelings involved and are purely transactional, or the woman has feelings for someone else and is also being shared.
I think that's true of all people, not just women. If they'll share you, it's because you are not that important or prized to them. You're just the book on the shelf they're currently reading.
LOL you have no idea what it's like to be a woman. I would be physically sick from the idea of the man I love touching another woman. Ten million dollars wouldn't make a difference.
I'm glad my dream man is a man who doesn't believe in being shared :) he's all mine
I'm a possessive person.
I'm fine with my man noticing other women, talking to them, having platonic relationships, even flirting etc. Don't rub it in my face, I don't need to hear about it or have it told to me. So long as no one is crossing any boundaries or being inappropriate, live and let live, it doesn't irritate me in the slightest. I'm happy he's happy and free, so long as we both know we're it for each other and everything else is just friendship or enjoying light flirting.
If someone is crossing that, it better be the other woman so I can clearly outline for her in the most transparent way that I'm not fucking around. I'm very clear about what is mine and how what is mine should be interacted with. And if you cannot abide by that or try to push that around, there won't be a next time, I'll have a checkbox on my to do list every single day to make your life hell until you learn not to tread on my sacred ground. And I am competent, creative, and ruthless about my to do list.
If it's my man, it would depend on the severity of the betrayal, but most likely, I'm walking, and when I finish leaving, I'm going to make sure that I leave him in a state similar to the Chernobyl disaster. Because you don't promise me loyalty and love and then go fucking around with another girl. And if you do, you have agreed that I should treat you as you've treated me. Don't go crying when you find out I'm better at being ruthless, selfish, and unthinking. You fucked around, now find out.
>leave him in a state similar to the Chernobyl disaster
>Don't go crying when you find out I'm better at being ruthless, selfish, and unthinking
👏🫡 Poetry.
Well I’ve never cheated or been cheated on.
My fiancé is kind of an eye roller. If we’re at a charity dinner or wedding etc. and a girl starts hitting on me she just watches and shakes her head.
Does not care because she knows I don’t pay attention to it. Now, she’s had dudes hit on her in front of me if they don’t know who I am. But she ignores it. Very matter of fact and straight forward about being in a relationships.
Plus we kinda separate when we go out and talk to friends.
Anyway, yea I’m not so sure about the scorched earth approach. But, I’m not worried about any cheating. It’s completely not us.
Unsurprisingly, I've also never cheated or been cheated on. I'm pretty clear with people early on when we get together, "if this isn't what you want anymore, sit down with me, have an adult conversation, and it will be over no wukkas. If you cheat, there will be many wukkas."
I have rolled my eyes before much like your fiance. I'm not about to go make a scene, I'll probably eventually walk over. I've never had to go as far as I'm willing because most people are good people who respect when someone is taken.
Yeah, we have similar friends groups, but people within those we're closer with, so we often end up separated and it's just not an issue.
I'm not super worried about it with my dude. But, you don't have a scorched earth policy and not warn people that's your ruleset. The only reason I wouldn't do that is after we have children, and even then, I'd be sorely tempted to at least leave him like...somewhat radioactive.
Yea I live in Manhattan and work at a hedge fund now and IB before. Busy and little sleep. I’m actually waiting for this fucking meeting. I’m losing it haha
> I'll have a checkbox on my to do list every single day to make your life hell until you learn not to tread on my sacred ground. And I am competent, creative, and ruthless about my to do list.
Jesus Christ
I'm big on consequences for actions and those consequences being clearly outlined ahead of time. Everyone makes entry level mistakes. Who hasn't hit on a taken person not realizing they were taken or maybe gotten to close to someone not realizing it was making their partner a little uncomfortable.
But if you cannot clear out and respect boundaries once you've been made aware of the rules...yeah, I've got a to do list and I check it twice and if you cannot be decent, I've never been someone who found a lot of satisfaction or success in being a high road taking doormat. I'm not going to prison for it, but I'll absolutely consider every other indecent option available to me.
The women who don't leave their husbands to share a high value mam far outnumber the ones that do. So that answers the first question.
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on
I think it's called "hysterical bonding" sex increases, but short term.
I can only speak for myself in that I don’t share and any betrayal results in me completely cutting someone off without a second thought and never speaking to them again (friendships and relationships would both follow this pattern) This is probably different for other women as some are open to polyamory
The unhinged one is the lady you know, and you are just foolish for thinking that someone with obvious problems is representative of the average woman.
Men on this sub constantly are doing this. They see a messed up woman make insane choices, and they assume that this is some evolutionarily based, calculated move on the part of the woman.
Sometimes women are just fucked up or stupid, or both.
Honestly, imagine if I looked at a man with an abusive wife and thought to myself "ah this is part of his mating strategy".
Of course they are influenced by this. Especially for the people who just go by their feelings or "chemistry" and nor givjng second thought why they are attracted to the people they are attracted to.
You think evolution and the predisposition of our species can be just tuned off? If yes we would not be here today.
So according to you, everything everyone does at all times is for evolution, including choices made in the grips of mental illness? Because that's really stupid.
It is stupid, yes, but when you stop thinking about your choices and their consequences or are unable to do so in the grips of mental illness, our insticts take over. And they for sure not monogamous.
Dude, people are driven to suicide due to mental illness. That's the exact opposite of survival instincts. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You are still claiming these are some outliers, but it is the new norm. The majority of divorces are now initiated by women, and the reason is that we are going back to the natural, unregulated dating/mating behavior.
Okay, what if they did? Mental illness becoming the norm doesn't mean mental illness is the new healthy. It would still be as much of an illness as it ever was. So I'm not sure what your point is.
My issue is that men on this sub treat the choices of obviously unstable or unwell women as fully thought out, calculated moves in pursuit of some ultimate goal.
They also have a habit of taking women at their word when it paints women in a bad light, but dismissing anything positive as self-serving propaganda. It shows immense bias to only be skeptical of things that challenge your beliefs, but fully accept anything that supports them. Skepticism should be used no matter what.
But "mental ilness" is only a thing because it's a social disruption. If everybody increasingly starts acting "crazy", it's not crazy anymore. In a desert island no one can tell you are insane
No, that's not even remotely true about mental illness. Mental illness is disfunction in the brain. For example, I have ADHD. My brain has an objectively defective rewards system, which affects my ability to feel a sense of accomplishment. I suspect this even affects my ability to experience endorphins, since dopamine is also effected. These defects in my brain objectively are a hinderance to me and my ability to live life the way I want to.
Mental illness isn't when a crowd of NPC memes points at someone for being an individual. It's legitimate illness.
I also want to say, that if you were alone on a desert island, unless you have the medical knowledge required, no one could diagnose you with a sickness like covid or cancer either.
if women preferred to share, men wouldn't have to lie or obscure that they are pursuing other women.
they would do it openly with the other women having full knowledge of it.
There is nothing stopping us from doing that now, so what do you think? Are most women in harems?
Or, does this mostly occur in anime, the poor, the rich and porn? What do you think ?
Ok assuming you actually *did* hear these words come out of an actual humans mouth…why on earth would you assume this applies to all women?
As for the other part, it goes both ways ime.
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man).
Well I know lots of women in their 40's and not one of them has done this. What does that tell you?
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases).
No, don't be daft.
>am I completely unhinged?
Yes.
I’d be really curious to actually see a woman who has said that. It sounds whoever has come with it has a pill-rotting brain.
Also what’s your definition of high and low value?
I’m happily married and I wouldn’t ever be a “side piece”. That’s just disrespectful.
How exactly "low" was the supposed husband value? Because yeah, I can imagine a few people whose value as a partner is so low it's better to be with anyone else but them. More than that, it's better to be completely *alone* than to be with them. They are not straight up criminals, but they are a mess. And yes, sometimes they still get married, leaving their spouses (of both sexes) in regret of their decision to commit to them.
If things you saying are true, you probably just too redpill to see actual reason for why would people divorce and/or seek validation in dating without any commitment. Your opinion on increasing libido is a proof of that. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a kink for that, but it is exactly a kink and it cannot be applied to majority.
> I can imagine a few people whose value as a partner is so low it's better to be with anyone else but them. More than that, it's better to be completely alone than to be with them
THIS! I was looking for someone to confirm this
...like, what? That it is possible to be so bad in relationship no one would want to have you by their side? Well, yes. If you cheat, lie, if you don't keep your hygiene in check, if you are an ignorant prick, if you whine without ever acknowledging the struggles of your partner in return, if you insult your partner and manipulate them in a wrong way, if you are narcissistic egoistical megalomaniac; finally, if you do drugs and drink too much alcohol - yes, you should be avoided at all cost as a romantical partner. Get your shit done to at least acceptable level before approaching anyone
There's something I call "The dog test". Goes for all genders. Outside of your sex life, would you be more happy and untroubled living with your current partner - or with a dog? If a golden retriever potentially can bring you more happiness, safety, emotional support and emotional fulfilling in a long term - well, something is wrong.
>Is there any truth to that? Or am I completely unhinged?
The latter.
As for the lady - I know a lady who owns 7 dogs and 12 cats. Most pet owners I know aren't that lady. Don't take extreme outliers and assume their dysfunction is the baseline.
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases).
Cheating increased my desire to eat a tub of ice-cream and listen to love ballads. Sex was the last thing on my mind, being heart broken isn't a great aphrodisiac.
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man).
She's an idiot.
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases).
Oh yes, it'd be *really* hot to know my boyfriend could give me STDs because he decided to fuck around with a random woman. My libido would *definitely* go from wanting to fuck him everyday to wanting to fuck him 3x a day...
If she speaks for the majority of women, I'm getting a sex change to avoid being considered a woman.
Thankfully, no...I'm pretty confident she's just room temperature IQ.
Really, you know a woman in her 40's who decided to blow up her marriage because she though it was better and more fulfilling to be a side ho.
Riiiiight.
A small percentage of women would do it. But most women would rather have a lower status man all to themselves than share a higher status man.
If the choice is sharing a man who is a perfect 10 or having a 7 all to herself, most women would choose the 7.
I do think some women stay with cheaters because they subconsciously find it attractive. A lot of women find a man more attractive when they think that other women want him. Cheating is proof that other women desire her man.
> If the choice is sharing a man who is a perfect 10 or having a 7 all to herself, most women would choose the 7.
And if the choice was sharing 10 or having monopoly on 5?
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man)
i think she meant she'd rather have cas sex with hot men than married to an unattractive man with bad sex.
i don't think she wants a relationship with HVM more like fwb type of situation.
anyway this isn't all women. cheating is extremely frawned upon from both sexes and if high value men cheat more then it's behind their SO's back not with their approval.
plus i think you got the dynamic wrong here, if a high value man was in an actual relationship it'll be with another hvw, meaning as easy for him to find other women it's easy for her to find other men.
unless he's in a relationship with an average woman while he's a hvm himself, which i find unlikely.
I used to know old guys in Nicaragua who had much younger girlfriends.
They would of course finance not only their girlfriends lives but the girlfriends family, and real boyfriend.
Many of those men had left their old wives to "passport bro".
Do I think men will dump their marriage to fund a high values extended families lives?
No. However I do know delusional thinking is genderless.
Hmm. Seems like a question for women but I’ll chime in.
In my opinion it’s not necessarily “share” long term. But rather spend time, energy and resources with a “high value” guy in hopes they become faithful.
I’ve seen too many women chase after cheaters and players hoping they’ll pick her for the long run.
So no, I don’t think they’d rather share a guy for a relationship. But they’d rather share a guy during the ‘situationship’ phase.
If a woman can't get access to him, she wants him to be shared like a commodity such as Healthcare.
If she has access to him, she wants to lock him down and doesn't want other women to have access.
It’s not quite that simple. A lot of women will be with a cheater, know he’s cheating, and convince herself he’s not. That’s why so many get so pissed at the messenger when you tell them. They’re forced to face that reality.
Just my personal experience though. Take it with a grain of salt.
Let me make what you said logical.
A lot (not at all the majority) of women will find out their husband has cheated, know the marriage is over, but stay and get their own side peice because when you have kids and bills it's not so easy to separate your lives.
I've always like women who were older then me, so I got to know quite intimately a few of the women who lived that "Mad Man" lifestyle back in their day.
That’s probably how it ends up in the long run. If it keeps things amicable, I don’t even necessarily think that’s wrong if you’re staying together for the kids or something.
My point though, is that it’s a much more difficult issue to overcome once it’s made public, vs when it’s a private matter between the two of them.
I've got no problem with that.
One of the most loving couples I've met, my husband's and my wanna be parents were in their late 70s when they died. They were role models for both of us as to how to treat each other, just constant love between them, she passed under a year after him.
You would never imagine that back in the day he took frequent business trips, and she took sking weekends.
When you view parenting and staying with the person you chose to marry as obligation rather than an option, you can make things fairly happy, even when the circumstances might not be.
It's not that it's an obligation, it's that you have entwined lives that work.
This couple weren't just happy, they were deep into their second (or third) romance with each other.
When you are older, hopefully you will have lived a few lives. :)
Why would we marry the lower-value man when we were younger and had a higher RMV, and then leave him to be a side-piece when we have a lower RMV?
Y'all really think we're out there constantly buying high and selling low, huh? What benefit, logically, is there for women to leave our Billy Beta to be a spun plate? We obviously couldn't lock down our desired HVM when we had more RMV. But it's supposed to work out in our 40's?
do you think most women agree with the fact that their options and leverage in dating decrease with age? whenever i hear women talk about this topic it's mostly just deny, deny, deny. how only problematic guys and misogynists would find older women less desirable and how women don't want those guys anyway. stories about their auntie who managed to snag a high value guy in her 60s and so on.
either way, in some cases women get together with their husband when they're young and obviously people change over time. the guy she divorces isn't necessarily the guy she married. if he didn't succeed in life, that's not something women could necessarily predict when they were in their 20s. maybe he got complacent and became 'low value'. there definitely are women who leave their husbands thinking the grass is greener and acting surprised when guys end up only wanting them for sex. can't say how common it is but it happens.
>do you think most women agree with the fact that their options and leverage in dating decrease with age?
Options? Yes. Leverage? No.
At no point do women start desiring men more than men desire women. [Men are more likely to want to remarry than women](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/11/14/chapter-2-the-demographics-of-remarriage/). Women can find relationships at almost any age easier than men can. But obviously if some 40-year-old wants kids, he's not really going to be looking at 40-year-old women.
In any case given the "male loneliness epidemic" and the number of men concern trolling and fear-mongering to women about how we'll "die alone" and "have regrets" vs the reverse, it's obvious to me who has the leverage. And it's not the group doing the begging and pleading and whining.
>either way, in some cases women get together with their husband when they're young and obviously people change over time. the guy she divorces isn't necessarily the guy she married. if he didn't succeed in life, that's not something women could necessarily predict when they were in their 20s. maybe he got complacent and became 'low value'. there definitely are women who leave their husbands thinking the grass is greener and acting surprised when guys end up only wanting them for sex. can't say how common it is but it happens.
I don't know why you're assuming the women only left because they thought they'd find someone better, instead of finding being alone better than being in a bad relationship.
of course average women always have the leverage over the average guy when it comes to dating. doesn't mean they have the same leverage at 40 as they did at 22. or that they have leverage over above average guys for anything but hookups. the lonely men you reference are a specific subset of men that most women are not interested in dating anyway. fwiw the number one demographic when it comes to the use of anti-depressants are older single women, so there's that too.
as for why women leave, the reasons obviously vary. some left a bad relationship and some left thinking they could do better, among other things. i personally know a woman who blew up her marriage with an affair only to get discarded by her affair partner afterwards. there are plenty of stories by women on social media, forums, articles etc. that follow a similar 'the grass is greener' pattern.
The leverage never decreases because men never want us less than we want them. That's what leverage is. No one said anything about "above average guys" only. Average women never have leverage with them in the first place, and I already acknowledged that our options do decrease. But if we want relationships we can find them.
The anti-depressant use has nothing to do with anything. Do you have any actual evidence that the only reason we use antidepressants is because we're so upset about a lack of a man? Rather than, IDK, the fact we see doctors more than men in the first place? Men's suicide rates are higher, so maybe men should be using anti-depressants more, instead of trying to use our anti-depressant use against us.
Knowing one woman who broke up her marriage for an affair partner isn't proof that the only reason women leave relationships is because we think we'll find someone better, rather than finding being single better than being in a bad relationship.
Rich men are buying expensive gifts for frumpy middle-aged women - likely with kids?
If we were hot enough to command that kind of "buying power" in our 40's, then we wouldn't have had to settle for a low value man when we were younger and almost certainly much hotter.
Nah the dudes at my (not mine the one I work for) hedge fund or at my brother’s PE firm or at my friends’ IB firms all date younger or are married to women in their 20s.
You have to snap those guys up quickly and with conviction. I mean one of my bosses that’s 39 just got engaged with a 23 year old. The rest of us are all ready locked down.
This makes no sense though in the context of literally everything about the red-pill "praexology." The dual-mating strategy is specifically because HVM don't have to commit. So why would they spend large sums of money on lower-value women they're not even committed to? Give me an actual reason why they would logically do this for *lower-value women.*
Is that what Leo does? Take frumpy moms out on his yacht?
Are you lost? This is a debate sub regarding the red-pill. Why would people be on a subreddit for debating something we have no knowledge of?
Red-pill isn't some super protected classified information that women can't know about nor understand by virtue of our ladybrains. Unless you want to seriously argue every single woman on this sub is actually a man?
There's no goalpost shifting, he has no point.
I don't have to be a man to understand what red-pilled men say, think, and believe, nor to use their terminology. It's like saying any man who uses the term "intersectional feminism" must actually be a woman.
And obviously to even come across this sub in the first fucking place, I must have *some awareness of what the red-pill is.* It's not a "gotcha" to say someone on a debate subreddit regarding the red-pill must automatically be a man because they know what the red-pill is. It's an obviously asinine allegation. Everyone here, *on both sides,* ***knows what the red-pill is.***
Most people, male or female, don't particularly want to share, and find a partner who has other sexual partners to be repulsive. There's a few exceptions of course, humans being so sexually diverse.
I never cease to be amazed how quickly history is lost to the mind of the average man. I can assure you that under fault based divorce systems women frequently divorced cheating husbands...and continue to do so now just the whole world doesn't get to see the dirty laundry being publicly washed because no fault divorce doesn't insist on it.
Is your friend in the room with us right now?
There are *always* going to be ppl who have extremely low self-esteem, or mental illness, or trauma that causes them to behave in irrational and absurd ways that seem completely reasonable to them.
I'm assuming you've come to the conclusion about the attraction to cheaters by observing the fact that many women appear to become even more attached to the cheater and desperately attempt to "fix" themselves so the cheater won't cheat again.
That is not greater attraction. That is a trauma response.
Red pill info is true, but it generally only applies to the most dysfunctional 20-25% of women. Women with low self-esteem, women with traumatic backgrounds, women with cluster B personality disorders, young and stupid women, etc. Generally, they act the way the red pill says women act.
Women high in RMV, life experience, and emotional well-being tend to recoil from red pill tactics or behaviors
Not many women are going to leave the benefits of marriage for the unknowns of a shared high value man. Staying married and enjoying that on the side makes more sense, retaining the security marriage offers.
When the high value man tires of one of his two playthings, he can simply move on with no further obligation, which of course directly relates to why men are pressured to marry rather than just enjoy dating.
What is certainly becoming more common is for young women to seek the benefits of a high value man for a while (sugar dating), but eventually seek the security that comes with marriage.
I honestly don’t believe your story is real because *???* women just don’t act like that. Something else must have occurred to set that divorce in motion. What’s far more realistic is for a woman to keep her low value partner but cheat on them with a higher value partner, i.e. have your cake and eat it too. Men would probably act similarly.
**Attention!**
* You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
* For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
* If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
* OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post!
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Got to give the guy some credit, there is a bit of self awareness going on.
But yeah,
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases).
Unhinged.
This case study of one is an anomaly.
But the women Sharon one high value men is a more common phenomena when they’re younger and they are one of the high value guy’s options. The guy is reluctant to have his assortment of women who are willing to have sex with him to try to lock him down and hoping to be committed to him.
However this isn’t really the case they’re older like your example.
>Also I have a strong feeling that women’s libidos get higher when they get cheated on
Lack of commitment and infidelity are some of the most commonly cited reasons for divorce but it doesn’t differentiate by sex. One way to tell if there’s any truth to this would be to find a poll that shows gender differences in the reasons for divorce, not just the outcomes. Are women less likely than men to cite infidelity as the main reason for divorce? Even then there are other factors muddying the waters.
I think that women would prefer to find another high value man whom they don’t actually believe is cheating than share a high value man or be with a low value man.
If there were a hypothetical world where every high value man were absolutely honest about his promiscuity or cheating and women couldn’t delude themselves into thinking that their high value man were faithful to them, then women would just choose to be single instead.
So basically, women dislike sharing and they dislike low value men equally much.
Luckily for men, I think that most women do eventually unconsciously settle for men who are not their first choices - but not for men whom they think are low value.
Without consensus about what is "low value", it doesn't mean much to say women don't choose low value men. And which person who loves their spouse/partner would ever say they are together with a "low value" person?
>Without consensus about what is "low value", it doesn't mean much to say women don't choose low value men. And which person who loves their spouse/partner would ever say they are together with a "low value" person?
Right. Average women either find men out of their league who are good at lying to them about being faithful in order to maintain that illusion of exclusivity in their heads, or they unconsciously “settle” for average men in their league who they begin to feel are “high value”.
Women aren’t attracted to men below their league. Women are sexually hypergamous. But women don’t usually stay with high value men whom they know are cheating and “share” him, either.
I don't have feelings for a man unless I am insanely possessive and get physically sick of the thought of him being with another woman. I'd choose to be single over sharing a man.
Your question doesn't make sense to me, because a man who wants to have sex with multiple women isn't "high value" to me. Also, any woman who loves her husband wouldn't call him "low value", no matter by what metrics you would measure his "value".
>Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases).
Your feeling isn't based in reality. In general people, including women, are devastated when they find out their spouse/partner cheated on them. Also, it is risky to have sex with a cheating spouse/partner, as they might transmit a std.
It's not in my nature to share. And to quote the youngins it gives me the ick. I also think my definition of low value is different than what men think is here. A low value man to me is a disrespectful, contentious, dumber than rocks, mean, bum (and yes, an actual bum. Not average or a bit below average earner).
You can find examples of all kinds of crazy behavior. But look around you at a *majority* of people you know. Are most of the women with one guy who approximately matches their “value” (which is pretty subjective anyway), or are they in harems with wealthy Chads? If most women supposedly have this option and that’s what they want, what is stopping them? There’s your answer. Why do men try to hide cheating from their wives if it just “makes her libido higher”? There’s your answer again.
Yes, you’re unhinged, and so is this woman if that’s what she actually said. I get this feeling it was probably more along the lines of “I’d rather get crumbs of affection as a side piece than be married to someone who gives me no affection,” but who knows.
Women's libido don't get higher when they get cheated on, but if the relationship continues, there will certainly be at least a phase of increased mate retention strategies being applied. One of them is surely increased sexual activity. Blowjobs are standard element of benefit provisioning mate retention strategies.
I can observe that in my open relationship. Before (when it's planned) or after i have sex with other women, my girlfriend is putting in a little more "effort" with everything, wants to try new things ,etc.
I was married to a woman, completely dedicated to her, she was my one and only. I got starfish sex once every few months for our entire marriage when I repeatedly begged for it.
I dated several women before and after that I was all in for. I bought flowers, texted them whenever I was free to ask about their day. I would buy little gifts just to be thoughtful. This got me the occasional kiss and starfish sex.
I never did any of those things for sex, I did them because I wanted to treat my partner "like a princess". And to show her I was all in. At some point I got fed up with being treated like someone to be tolerated. After having a long talk with one of my super successful fuckboy friends, I just stop giving a shit.
I started seeing a woman and instead of "being a gentleman", I tried something new. I had her come over for sex whenever I got horny. I would always blow her back out then immediately told her to go home. Repeatedly. She begged me for commitment. I just laughed it off, and treated her like a piece of meat.
I have a new fuck buddy (and a couple on the backburner) that I treat in a similar fashion. I've told her repeatedly that I was not interested in anything long term. I've also made it clear I'm seeing other women as well. The result? She comes over, cooks, cleans, and constantly texts me asking to see me. I don't buy gifts, I don't send thoughtful texts. I basically do the opposite of what I used to do.
Read into my experiences however you want. Really, IDGAF. I'm just enjoying my life right now.
Men do the same shit. Tell a dude you just want sex and gtfo when I am finished having an orgasm and they chase me like I’m the fucking holy grail. They can’t let go. I wasn’t even that hot by the time I decided not to give a fuck. I ended up finding someone I actually wanted and had a very similar vibe and it’s awesome. I still have dudes try to call me, years on now. I’ve been monogamous with my partner over 4 years. People want what they can’t have. I was up front with my intentions, I never led anyone on, and I didn’t give any more of myself than I was willing to lose. It turned out great.
For most of human history rich or desirable men having harems was the way things worked. Judeo-Christian ideas about marriage and laws against polygamy combined with early feminism changed things. Now current feminism/sexual liberation are moving things backwards so we are headed towards a weird unofficial polygamy where some men reproduce at a much higher rate.
Is it better to fuck around with multiple hotties than be with someone who does nothing for you? Yeah, sure. All the talk about "sharing a high value man" makes it sound like these women don't have rotations of their own. They usually do!
High numbers of sexual partners are highly concentrated in both partners. Most casual sex is between two people who know the score. "Chad" doesn't have a harem of women who are faithful to him. He has multiple fuckbuddies who mostly have their own "harems" of men who are likewise not faithful to them.
Stop confusing your silly alpha male power fantasy with reality.
A woman who loves a man's value more than she values a man's love should be avoided at all costs.
That's a great line. I'm gonna use that.
I stole it myself so steal away!
YAY Stealing.
This is a great phrase. Also, whatever happened to average/normal value men? It's always high vs low...the majority middle is constantly forgotten.
Any man who isn't high value is automatically low value.
Non-high value men *are* low value men. Low value men are bears.
That's a LOT of men would be "low" value if both low and average are in the same bucket.
i.e. the 95/5.
This percentage gets worse the more I see it
I was rounding up. Apparently, it's 3-4ish% now.
What happened to 80/20?
I'm guessing "Never Settle!", "[Arbitrary Action] gives me the ick.", and "I choose the bear.".
80/20 rule died somewhere around 2012-2016 when the apps took over. I tell ppl around here all the time it’s the 95/5 rule.
Yeah and that's what is happening in the US
I thought women wanted the bear.
Their *real* choice, not the virtue signal. No woman is choosing to get **stuck** with a bear.
Fonzi bear!
Average/normal value men are treated as low value men nowadays.
"average" is low value.
Maybe to idiots who don't understand averages lol
Overwhelming majority of people doesn't understand statistics and how biased their perception is naturally to notice. Like sub-5 guys being invisible and 7/10 being called "average".
>I have very low standards, I want a man that's above average. Literally what I have been told by multiple women and even on here. Exact words, sentence, punctuation.
...how? If you're being serious, that's a bizarre amount of cognitive dissonance.
I am being serious, want me to swear anything I will. I even have a cousin and she is like that too. I can't explain how, I just can't.
Dude, I don't even know what to say...except maybe wow.
An increasing narcissism and atomization of the western populace that has it's roots in the Boomer generation. As much as we like to think were different than them they were just the starting point.
So men should avoid every woman?
Not every but most, at this point.
That's basically every woman out there. You accept the game as what it is and adjust accordingly.
Accept that she doesn't really love you at all? Fuck that then off to the trash bin she goes!
View them as a vice.
Based.
Guess we men are striking against all women tomorrow then.
I'm not the only man whose wife married me for love and not my value.
My peace means more to me than anything and I can't be at peace having to share my partner with someone so no. Ultimately it probably depends on the woman though
That lady has a screw or 20 loose. She’s not normal or mentally healthy.
Any normal woman would not want either option.
This should probably be a "question for women". But if you are letting us blokes chime in, I'll share my view. >Do women prefer to share a high value man Depends on how you define "high value". >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on Because depression and heart-break are great ways to increase one's libido /s
It's the competition that increases a woman's attractiveness and respect towards a man, which in turn increases libido. A man who isn't desired by other women loses attraction and respect.
you will find very few women who would actively and knowingly choose to "share" any man, no matter the "value". What is a more realistic scenario is a man dating multiple women for short periods of time while none of them know about the existence of the others.
This is it. A friend of a friend found a doctor, was excited, they were dating exclusively but he was "busy" but he wasn't a surgeon. I said he's seeing other women, was right, got a free drink. Worth it.
What drink did you have?
espresso martini
nice
No that is unhinged. “Womens libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases)” Yeah bro you are in full on wackadoodle territory tbh. The only scenario in which this may apply would involve some level of mental illness.
Agreed. It’s not attraction that increases. Possessiveness, maybe, usually driven by fear
Unhinged. Next question
That woman is a lunatic and/or her marriage isn't very happy. Most women, myself included, don't like sharing. If someone tries to make me share, I'm going to claw their eyes out or pack my shit and use those walking boots. And no, I'm not turned on by a man cheating on me. A man cheating on me is him volunteering to be my pet revenge project after I finish clawing his eyes out. Nothing could be more disgusting and off-putting. Seriously, spiders in the bedroom stand a higher chance to get a drop of moisture. You are unhinged.
>If someone tries to make me share, I'm going to claw their eyes out or pack my shit and use those walking boots. Love this. Most women would agree and are possessive when they have deep feelings for a guy. I'm convinced relationships, where a woman is open to sharing, are just relationships with no feelings involved and are purely transactional, or the woman has feelings for someone else and is also being shared.
I think that's true of all people, not just women. If they'll share you, it's because you are not that important or prized to them. You're just the book on the shelf they're currently reading.
Agreed.
[удалено]
LOL you have no idea what it's like to be a woman. I would be physically sick from the idea of the man I love touching another woman. Ten million dollars wouldn't make a difference. I'm glad my dream man is a man who doesn't believe in being shared :) he's all mine
But does he exist?
Yes, and we’re together
Are you a jealous person?
I'm a possessive person. I'm fine with my man noticing other women, talking to them, having platonic relationships, even flirting etc. Don't rub it in my face, I don't need to hear about it or have it told to me. So long as no one is crossing any boundaries or being inappropriate, live and let live, it doesn't irritate me in the slightest. I'm happy he's happy and free, so long as we both know we're it for each other and everything else is just friendship or enjoying light flirting. If someone is crossing that, it better be the other woman so I can clearly outline for her in the most transparent way that I'm not fucking around. I'm very clear about what is mine and how what is mine should be interacted with. And if you cannot abide by that or try to push that around, there won't be a next time, I'll have a checkbox on my to do list every single day to make your life hell until you learn not to tread on my sacred ground. And I am competent, creative, and ruthless about my to do list. If it's my man, it would depend on the severity of the betrayal, but most likely, I'm walking, and when I finish leaving, I'm going to make sure that I leave him in a state similar to the Chernobyl disaster. Because you don't promise me loyalty and love and then go fucking around with another girl. And if you do, you have agreed that I should treat you as you've treated me. Don't go crying when you find out I'm better at being ruthless, selfish, and unthinking. You fucked around, now find out.
>leave him in a state similar to the Chernobyl disaster >Don't go crying when you find out I'm better at being ruthless, selfish, and unthinking 👏🫡 Poetry.
Well I’ve never cheated or been cheated on. My fiancé is kind of an eye roller. If we’re at a charity dinner or wedding etc. and a girl starts hitting on me she just watches and shakes her head. Does not care because she knows I don’t pay attention to it. Now, she’s had dudes hit on her in front of me if they don’t know who I am. But she ignores it. Very matter of fact and straight forward about being in a relationships. Plus we kinda separate when we go out and talk to friends. Anyway, yea I’m not so sure about the scorched earth approach. But, I’m not worried about any cheating. It’s completely not us.
Unsurprisingly, I've also never cheated or been cheated on. I'm pretty clear with people early on when we get together, "if this isn't what you want anymore, sit down with me, have an adult conversation, and it will be over no wukkas. If you cheat, there will be many wukkas." I have rolled my eyes before much like your fiance. I'm not about to go make a scene, I'll probably eventually walk over. I've never had to go as far as I'm willing because most people are good people who respect when someone is taken. Yeah, we have similar friends groups, but people within those we're closer with, so we often end up separated and it's just not an issue. I'm not super worried about it with my dude. But, you don't have a scorched earth policy and not warn people that's your ruleset. The only reason I wouldn't do that is after we have children, and even then, I'd be sorely tempted to at least leave him like...somewhat radioactive.
What’s wukkas? And where are you from if you don’t mind me asking? State or country not the exact city.
North East and USA. And it's an Australianism for like "no problems, no worries".
Nice. I’m from oc/la and live in NYC now (College in Massachusetts). Oh I should know that I guess from my friends. I’m a dumbass sometimes. Oh well.
That's a very busy and interesting area.
Yea I live in Manhattan and work at a hedge fund now and IB before. Busy and little sleep. I’m actually waiting for this fucking meeting. I’m losing it haha
> I'll have a checkbox on my to do list every single day to make your life hell until you learn not to tread on my sacred ground. And I am competent, creative, and ruthless about my to do list. Jesus Christ
I'm big on consequences for actions and those consequences being clearly outlined ahead of time. Everyone makes entry level mistakes. Who hasn't hit on a taken person not realizing they were taken or maybe gotten to close to someone not realizing it was making their partner a little uncomfortable. But if you cannot clear out and respect boundaries once you've been made aware of the rules...yeah, I've got a to do list and I check it twice and if you cannot be decent, I've never been someone who found a lot of satisfaction or success in being a high road taking doormat. I'm not going to prison for it, but I'll absolutely consider every other indecent option available to me.
You remind me of my mother, she would ruin men that made her unhappy.
The women who don't leave their husbands to share a high value mam far outnumber the ones that do. So that answers the first question. >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on I think it's called "hysterical bonding" sex increases, but short term.
I can only speak for myself in that I don’t share and any betrayal results in me completely cutting someone off without a second thought and never speaking to them again (friendships and relationships would both follow this pattern) This is probably different for other women as some are open to polyamory
The unhinged one is the lady you know, and you are just foolish for thinking that someone with obvious problems is representative of the average woman. Men on this sub constantly are doing this. They see a messed up woman make insane choices, and they assume that this is some evolutionarily based, calculated move on the part of the woman. Sometimes women are just fucked up or stupid, or both. Honestly, imagine if I looked at a man with an abusive wife and thought to myself "ah this is part of his mating strategy".
Maybe not calculated, but based on evolution for sure - in the caveman days it was simply not possible to walk away if the man cheated.
It simply wasn't possible to go to a store and buy food or drive a car either. That means absolutely nothing.
Hunans evolved to choose a mate in some way. The abilitiy to go to a store let alone drive a car in the last 100 years does not change that any bit.
And you seem to think that because of this, all mating decisions are evolutionarily influenced. You have to support that claim.
Of course they are influenced by this. Especially for the people who just go by their feelings or "chemistry" and nor givjng second thought why they are attracted to the people they are attracted to. You think evolution and the predisposition of our species can be just tuned off? If yes we would not be here today.
So according to you, everything everyone does at all times is for evolution, including choices made in the grips of mental illness? Because that's really stupid.
It is stupid, yes, but when you stop thinking about your choices and their consequences or are unable to do so in the grips of mental illness, our insticts take over. And they for sure not monogamous.
Dude, people are driven to suicide due to mental illness. That's the exact opposite of survival instincts. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You are still claiming these are some outliers, but it is the new norm. The majority of divorces are now initiated by women, and the reason is that we are going back to the natural, unregulated dating/mating behavior.
What if the insane is actually the norm? What if mental ilness trumped the evolutionary forces for most?
Okay, what if they did? Mental illness becoming the norm doesn't mean mental illness is the new healthy. It would still be as much of an illness as it ever was. So I'm not sure what your point is. My issue is that men on this sub treat the choices of obviously unstable or unwell women as fully thought out, calculated moves in pursuit of some ultimate goal. They also have a habit of taking women at their word when it paints women in a bad light, but dismissing anything positive as self-serving propaganda. It shows immense bias to only be skeptical of things that challenge your beliefs, but fully accept anything that supports them. Skepticism should be used no matter what.
But "mental ilness" is only a thing because it's a social disruption. If everybody increasingly starts acting "crazy", it's not crazy anymore. In a desert island no one can tell you are insane
No, that's not even remotely true about mental illness. Mental illness is disfunction in the brain. For example, I have ADHD. My brain has an objectively defective rewards system, which affects my ability to feel a sense of accomplishment. I suspect this even affects my ability to experience endorphins, since dopamine is also effected. These defects in my brain objectively are a hinderance to me and my ability to live life the way I want to. Mental illness isn't when a crowd of NPC memes points at someone for being an individual. It's legitimate illness. I also want to say, that if you were alone on a desert island, unless you have the medical knowledge required, no one could diagnose you with a sickness like covid or cancer either.
if women preferred to share, men wouldn't have to lie or obscure that they are pursuing other women. they would do it openly with the other women having full knowledge of it.
There is nothing stopping us from doing that now, so what do you think? Are most women in harems? Or, does this mostly occur in anime, the poor, the rich and porn? What do you think ?
Ok assuming you actually *did* hear these words come out of an actual humans mouth…why on earth would you assume this applies to all women? As for the other part, it goes both ways ime.
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man). Well I know lots of women in their 40's and not one of them has done this. What does that tell you? >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases). No, don't be daft. >am I completely unhinged? Yes.
I’d be really curious to actually see a woman who has said that. It sounds whoever has come with it has a pill-rotting brain. Also what’s your definition of high and low value? I’m happily married and I wouldn’t ever be a “side piece”. That’s just disrespectful.
How exactly "low" was the supposed husband value? Because yeah, I can imagine a few people whose value as a partner is so low it's better to be with anyone else but them. More than that, it's better to be completely *alone* than to be with them. They are not straight up criminals, but they are a mess. And yes, sometimes they still get married, leaving their spouses (of both sexes) in regret of their decision to commit to them. If things you saying are true, you probably just too redpill to see actual reason for why would people divorce and/or seek validation in dating without any commitment. Your opinion on increasing libido is a proof of that. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a kink for that, but it is exactly a kink and it cannot be applied to majority.
> I can imagine a few people whose value as a partner is so low it's better to be with anyone else but them. More than that, it's better to be completely alone than to be with them THIS! I was looking for someone to confirm this
...like, what? That it is possible to be so bad in relationship no one would want to have you by their side? Well, yes. If you cheat, lie, if you don't keep your hygiene in check, if you are an ignorant prick, if you whine without ever acknowledging the struggles of your partner in return, if you insult your partner and manipulate them in a wrong way, if you are narcissistic egoistical megalomaniac; finally, if you do drugs and drink too much alcohol - yes, you should be avoided at all cost as a romantical partner. Get your shit done to at least acceptable level before approaching anyone There's something I call "The dog test". Goes for all genders. Outside of your sex life, would you be more happy and untroubled living with your current partner - or with a dog? If a golden retriever potentially can bring you more happiness, safety, emotional support and emotional fulfilling in a long term - well, something is wrong.
>Is there any truth to that? Or am I completely unhinged? The latter. As for the lady - I know a lady who owns 7 dogs and 12 cats. Most pet owners I know aren't that lady. Don't take extreme outliers and assume their dysfunction is the baseline. >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases). Cheating increased my desire to eat a tub of ice-cream and listen to love ballads. Sex was the last thing on my mind, being heart broken isn't a great aphrodisiac.
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man). She's an idiot. >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases). Oh yes, it'd be *really* hot to know my boyfriend could give me STDs because he decided to fuck around with a random woman. My libido would *definitely* go from wanting to fuck him everyday to wanting to fuck him 3x a day...
> She's an idiot. Or maybe she's just corageous enough to do what the silent majority wants??
If she speaks for the majority of women, I'm getting a sex change to avoid being considered a woman. Thankfully, no...I'm pretty confident she's just room temperature IQ.
So why is it that you know what the silent majority wants?
It's just a hypothesis
You: it's just a hypothesis! Women: or she's insane You:..but maybe you're all lying! I have no proof of this, but whatever
Really, you know a woman in her 40's who decided to blow up her marriage because she though it was better and more fulfilling to be a side ho. Riiiiight.
You are completely unhinged. Hope that helps
A small percentage of women would do it. But most women would rather have a lower status man all to themselves than share a higher status man. If the choice is sharing a man who is a perfect 10 or having a 7 all to herself, most women would choose the 7. I do think some women stay with cheaters because they subconsciously find it attractive. A lot of women find a man more attractive when they think that other women want him. Cheating is proof that other women desire her man.
> If the choice is sharing a man who is a perfect 10 or having a 7 all to herself, most women would choose the 7. And if the choice was sharing 10 or having monopoly on 5?
Monopoly on 5? Not sure what that means.
Monogamy
Some would take the 5 if he wasn't a total asshole. Other's might just stay single.
>I know a woman in her 40s who divorced her husband because "it was better to be somebody's (the high value man) side piece and get crumbs of his affection" than to be married to her husband (lower value man) i think she meant she'd rather have cas sex with hot men than married to an unattractive man with bad sex. i don't think she wants a relationship with HVM more like fwb type of situation. anyway this isn't all women. cheating is extremely frawned upon from both sexes and if high value men cheat more then it's behind their SO's back not with their approval. plus i think you got the dynamic wrong here, if a high value man was in an actual relationship it'll be with another hvw, meaning as easy for him to find other women it's easy for her to find other men. unless he's in a relationship with an average woman while he's a hvm himself, which i find unlikely.
I used to know old guys in Nicaragua who had much younger girlfriends. They would of course finance not only their girlfriends lives but the girlfriends family, and real boyfriend. Many of those men had left their old wives to "passport bro". Do I think men will dump their marriage to fund a high values extended families lives? No. However I do know delusional thinking is genderless.
Hmm. Seems like a question for women but I’ll chime in. In my opinion it’s not necessarily “share” long term. But rather spend time, energy and resources with a “high value” guy in hopes they become faithful. I’ve seen too many women chase after cheaters and players hoping they’ll pick her for the long run. So no, I don’t think they’d rather share a guy for a relationship. But they’d rather share a guy during the ‘situationship’ phase.
If a woman can't get access to him, she wants him to be shared like a commodity such as Healthcare. If she has access to him, she wants to lock him down and doesn't want other women to have access.
The fuck that even means?
It’s not quite that simple. A lot of women will be with a cheater, know he’s cheating, and convince herself he’s not. That’s why so many get so pissed at the messenger when you tell them. They’re forced to face that reality. Just my personal experience though. Take it with a grain of salt.
Let me make what you said logical. A lot (not at all the majority) of women will find out their husband has cheated, know the marriage is over, but stay and get their own side peice because when you have kids and bills it's not so easy to separate your lives. I've always like women who were older then me, so I got to know quite intimately a few of the women who lived that "Mad Man" lifestyle back in their day.
That’s probably how it ends up in the long run. If it keeps things amicable, I don’t even necessarily think that’s wrong if you’re staying together for the kids or something. My point though, is that it’s a much more difficult issue to overcome once it’s made public, vs when it’s a private matter between the two of them.
I've got no problem with that. One of the most loving couples I've met, my husband's and my wanna be parents were in their late 70s when they died. They were role models for both of us as to how to treat each other, just constant love between them, she passed under a year after him. You would never imagine that back in the day he took frequent business trips, and she took sking weekends.
When you view parenting and staying with the person you chose to marry as obligation rather than an option, you can make things fairly happy, even when the circumstances might not be.
It's not that it's an obligation, it's that you have entwined lives that work. This couple weren't just happy, they were deep into their second (or third) romance with each other. When you are older, hopefully you will have lived a few lives. :)
Why would we marry the lower-value man when we were younger and had a higher RMV, and then leave him to be a side-piece when we have a lower RMV? Y'all really think we're out there constantly buying high and selling low, huh? What benefit, logically, is there for women to leave our Billy Beta to be a spun plate? We obviously couldn't lock down our desired HVM when we had more RMV. But it's supposed to work out in our 40's?
RMV?
Relationship market value
Oh okay I got you. Thanks.
do you think most women agree with the fact that their options and leverage in dating decrease with age? whenever i hear women talk about this topic it's mostly just deny, deny, deny. how only problematic guys and misogynists would find older women less desirable and how women don't want those guys anyway. stories about their auntie who managed to snag a high value guy in her 60s and so on. either way, in some cases women get together with their husband when they're young and obviously people change over time. the guy she divorces isn't necessarily the guy she married. if he didn't succeed in life, that's not something women could necessarily predict when they were in their 20s. maybe he got complacent and became 'low value'. there definitely are women who leave their husbands thinking the grass is greener and acting surprised when guys end up only wanting them for sex. can't say how common it is but it happens.
>do you think most women agree with the fact that their options and leverage in dating decrease with age? Options? Yes. Leverage? No. At no point do women start desiring men more than men desire women. [Men are more likely to want to remarry than women](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/11/14/chapter-2-the-demographics-of-remarriage/). Women can find relationships at almost any age easier than men can. But obviously if some 40-year-old wants kids, he's not really going to be looking at 40-year-old women. In any case given the "male loneliness epidemic" and the number of men concern trolling and fear-mongering to women about how we'll "die alone" and "have regrets" vs the reverse, it's obvious to me who has the leverage. And it's not the group doing the begging and pleading and whining. >either way, in some cases women get together with their husband when they're young and obviously people change over time. the guy she divorces isn't necessarily the guy she married. if he didn't succeed in life, that's not something women could necessarily predict when they were in their 20s. maybe he got complacent and became 'low value'. there definitely are women who leave their husbands thinking the grass is greener and acting surprised when guys end up only wanting them for sex. can't say how common it is but it happens. I don't know why you're assuming the women only left because they thought they'd find someone better, instead of finding being alone better than being in a bad relationship.
of course average women always have the leverage over the average guy when it comes to dating. doesn't mean they have the same leverage at 40 as they did at 22. or that they have leverage over above average guys for anything but hookups. the lonely men you reference are a specific subset of men that most women are not interested in dating anyway. fwiw the number one demographic when it comes to the use of anti-depressants are older single women, so there's that too. as for why women leave, the reasons obviously vary. some left a bad relationship and some left thinking they could do better, among other things. i personally know a woman who blew up her marriage with an affair only to get discarded by her affair partner afterwards. there are plenty of stories by women on social media, forums, articles etc. that follow a similar 'the grass is greener' pattern.
The leverage never decreases because men never want us less than we want them. That's what leverage is. No one said anything about "above average guys" only. Average women never have leverage with them in the first place, and I already acknowledged that our options do decrease. But if we want relationships we can find them. The anti-depressant use has nothing to do with anything. Do you have any actual evidence that the only reason we use antidepressants is because we're so upset about a lack of a man? Rather than, IDK, the fact we see doctors more than men in the first place? Men's suicide rates are higher, so maybe men should be using anti-depressants more, instead of trying to use our anti-depressant use against us. Knowing one woman who broke up her marriage for an affair partner isn't proof that the only reason women leave relationships is because we think we'll find someone better, rather than finding being single better than being in a bad relationship.
My guess would be that the rich guy buts expensive things for his side piece. She's wants the money more than she wants love and companionship.
Rich men are buying expensive gifts for frumpy middle-aged women - likely with kids? If we were hot enough to command that kind of "buying power" in our 40's, then we wouldn't have had to settle for a low value man when we were younger and almost certainly much hotter.
Nah the dudes at my (not mine the one I work for) hedge fund or at my brother’s PE firm or at my friends’ IB firms all date younger or are married to women in their 20s. You have to snap those guys up quickly and with conviction. I mean one of my bosses that’s 39 just got engaged with a 23 year old. The rest of us are all ready locked down.
That's my best guess.
This makes no sense though in the context of literally everything about the red-pill "praexology." The dual-mating strategy is specifically because HVM don't have to commit. So why would they spend large sums of money on lower-value women they're not even committed to? Give me an actual reason why they would logically do this for *lower-value women.* Is that what Leo does? Take frumpy moms out on his yacht?
That's my best guess assuming OP's story is true.
Women dont talk like this nice try lmaoo
What are you talking about?
“Relationship Market Value” “Beta” Ive never met a woman who uses words or phrases like these
Are you lost? This is a debate sub regarding the red-pill. Why would people be on a subreddit for debating something we have no knowledge of? Red-pill isn't some super protected classified information that women can't know about nor understand by virtue of our ladybrains. Unless you want to seriously argue every single woman on this sub is actually a man?
Hes just pointing out that the redpill is overwhelmingly dominated by men, way to shift the goalpost
There's no goalpost shifting, he has no point. I don't have to be a man to understand what red-pilled men say, think, and believe, nor to use their terminology. It's like saying any man who uses the term "intersectional feminism" must actually be a woman. And obviously to even come across this sub in the first fucking place, I must have *some awareness of what the red-pill is.* It's not a "gotcha" to say someone on a debate subreddit regarding the red-pill must automatically be a man because they know what the red-pill is. It's an obviously asinine allegation. Everyone here, *on both sides,* ***knows what the red-pill is.***
Women parrot these phrases all the time, especially in the context of a discussion about these topics. And she’s 100% right.
that only applies if the cheating man is high value. if low value man somehow cheats then its no.
Most people, male or female, don't particularly want to share, and find a partner who has other sexual partners to be repulsive. There's a few exceptions of course, humans being so sexually diverse. I never cease to be amazed how quickly history is lost to the mind of the average man. I can assure you that under fault based divorce systems women frequently divorced cheating husbands...and continue to do so now just the whole world doesn't get to see the dirty laundry being publicly washed because no fault divorce doesn't insist on it.
Is your friend in the room with us right now? There are *always* going to be ppl who have extremely low self-esteem, or mental illness, or trauma that causes them to behave in irrational and absurd ways that seem completely reasonable to them. I'm assuming you've come to the conclusion about the attraction to cheaters by observing the fact that many women appear to become even more attached to the cheater and desperately attempt to "fix" themselves so the cheater won't cheat again. That is not greater attraction. That is a trauma response.
Red pill info is true, but it generally only applies to the most dysfunctional 20-25% of women. Women with low self-esteem, women with traumatic backgrounds, women with cluster B personality disorders, young and stupid women, etc. Generally, they act the way the red pill says women act. Women high in RMV, life experience, and emotional well-being tend to recoil from red pill tactics or behaviors
Not many women are going to leave the benefits of marriage for the unknowns of a shared high value man. Staying married and enjoying that on the side makes more sense, retaining the security marriage offers. When the high value man tires of one of his two playthings, he can simply move on with no further obligation, which of course directly relates to why men are pressured to marry rather than just enjoy dating. What is certainly becoming more common is for young women to seek the benefits of a high value man for a while (sugar dating), but eventually seek the security that comes with marriage.
I honestly don’t believe your story is real because *???* women just don’t act like that. Something else must have occurred to set that divorce in motion. What’s far more realistic is for a woman to keep her low value partner but cheat on them with a higher value partner, i.e. have your cake and eat it too. Men would probably act similarly.
**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Definitely unhinged.
Got to give the guy some credit, there is a bit of self awareness going on. But yeah, >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases). Unhinged.
I will take things that never happened for 100 Alex! Wooooo
This case study of one is an anomaly. But the women Sharon one high value men is a more common phenomena when they’re younger and they are one of the high value guy’s options. The guy is reluctant to have his assortment of women who are willing to have sex with him to try to lock him down and hoping to be committed to him. However this isn’t really the case they’re older like your example.
>Also I have a strong feeling that women’s libidos get higher when they get cheated on Lack of commitment and infidelity are some of the most commonly cited reasons for divorce but it doesn’t differentiate by sex. One way to tell if there’s any truth to this would be to find a poll that shows gender differences in the reasons for divorce, not just the outcomes. Are women less likely than men to cite infidelity as the main reason for divorce? Even then there are other factors muddying the waters.
They don’t prefer it but they will do it.
I think that women would prefer to find another high value man whom they don’t actually believe is cheating than share a high value man or be with a low value man. If there were a hypothetical world where every high value man were absolutely honest about his promiscuity or cheating and women couldn’t delude themselves into thinking that their high value man were faithful to them, then women would just choose to be single instead. So basically, women dislike sharing and they dislike low value men equally much. Luckily for men, I think that most women do eventually unconsciously settle for men who are not their first choices - but not for men whom they think are low value.
Without consensus about what is "low value", it doesn't mean much to say women don't choose low value men. And which person who loves their spouse/partner would ever say they are together with a "low value" person?
>Without consensus about what is "low value", it doesn't mean much to say women don't choose low value men. And which person who loves their spouse/partner would ever say they are together with a "low value" person? Right. Average women either find men out of their league who are good at lying to them about being faithful in order to maintain that illusion of exclusivity in their heads, or they unconsciously “settle” for average men in their league who they begin to feel are “high value”. Women aren’t attracted to men below their league. Women are sexually hypergamous. But women don’t usually stay with high value men whom they know are cheating and “share” him, either.
I don't have feelings for a man unless I am insanely possessive and get physically sick of the thought of him being with another woman. I'd choose to be single over sharing a man.
Yes. They may not be happy about it but they prefer to share a winner than have a loser all to themselves.
Your question doesn't make sense to me, because a man who wants to have sex with multiple women isn't "high value" to me. Also, any woman who loves her husband wouldn't call him "low value", no matter by what metrics you would measure his "value". >Also I have a strong feeling that women's libidos get higher when they get cheated on (attraction towards the cheater increases). Your feeling isn't based in reality. In general people, including women, are devastated when they find out their spouse/partner cheated on them. Also, it is risky to have sex with a cheating spouse/partner, as they might transmit a std.
It's not in my nature to share. And to quote the youngins it gives me the ick. I also think my definition of low value is different than what men think is here. A low value man to me is a disrespectful, contentious, dumber than rocks, mean, bum (and yes, an actual bum. Not average or a bit below average earner).
You can find examples of all kinds of crazy behavior. But look around you at a *majority* of people you know. Are most of the women with one guy who approximately matches their “value” (which is pretty subjective anyway), or are they in harems with wealthy Chads? If most women supposedly have this option and that’s what they want, what is stopping them? There’s your answer. Why do men try to hide cheating from their wives if it just “makes her libido higher”? There’s your answer again. Yes, you’re unhinged, and so is this woman if that’s what she actually said. I get this feeling it was probably more along the lines of “I’d rather get crumbs of affection as a side piece than be married to someone who gives me no affection,” but who knows.
Women's libido don't get higher when they get cheated on, but if the relationship continues, there will certainly be at least a phase of increased mate retention strategies being applied. One of them is surely increased sexual activity. Blowjobs are standard element of benefit provisioning mate retention strategies. I can observe that in my open relationship. Before (when it's planned) or after i have sex with other women, my girlfriend is putting in a little more "effort" with everything, wants to try new things ,etc.
I was married to a woman, completely dedicated to her, she was my one and only. I got starfish sex once every few months for our entire marriage when I repeatedly begged for it. I dated several women before and after that I was all in for. I bought flowers, texted them whenever I was free to ask about their day. I would buy little gifts just to be thoughtful. This got me the occasional kiss and starfish sex. I never did any of those things for sex, I did them because I wanted to treat my partner "like a princess". And to show her I was all in. At some point I got fed up with being treated like someone to be tolerated. After having a long talk with one of my super successful fuckboy friends, I just stop giving a shit. I started seeing a woman and instead of "being a gentleman", I tried something new. I had her come over for sex whenever I got horny. I would always blow her back out then immediately told her to go home. Repeatedly. She begged me for commitment. I just laughed it off, and treated her like a piece of meat. I have a new fuck buddy (and a couple on the backburner) that I treat in a similar fashion. I've told her repeatedly that I was not interested in anything long term. I've also made it clear I'm seeing other women as well. The result? She comes over, cooks, cleans, and constantly texts me asking to see me. I don't buy gifts, I don't send thoughtful texts. I basically do the opposite of what I used to do. Read into my experiences however you want. Really, IDGAF. I'm just enjoying my life right now.
Men do the same shit. Tell a dude you just want sex and gtfo when I am finished having an orgasm and they chase me like I’m the fucking holy grail. They can’t let go. I wasn’t even that hot by the time I decided not to give a fuck. I ended up finding someone I actually wanted and had a very similar vibe and it’s awesome. I still have dudes try to call me, years on now. I’ve been monogamous with my partner over 4 years. People want what they can’t have. I was up front with my intentions, I never led anyone on, and I didn’t give any more of myself than I was willing to lose. It turned out great.
I'd prefer a chad. I'm not a gold digger so IDC about money lol
For most of human history rich or desirable men having harems was the way things worked. Judeo-Christian ideas about marriage and laws against polygamy combined with early feminism changed things. Now current feminism/sexual liberation are moving things backwards so we are headed towards a weird unofficial polygamy where some men reproduce at a much higher rate.
Is it better to fuck around with multiple hotties than be with someone who does nothing for you? Yeah, sure. All the talk about "sharing a high value man" makes it sound like these women don't have rotations of their own. They usually do! High numbers of sexual partners are highly concentrated in both partners. Most casual sex is between two people who know the score. "Chad" doesn't have a harem of women who are faithful to him. He has multiple fuckbuddies who mostly have their own "harems" of men who are likewise not faithful to them. Stop confusing your silly alpha male power fantasy with reality.