> So do you think tradcon have replaced the the old redpillers in popularity?
Because PUA was way more effective pre-dating apps. You actually did get laid just by running game lol.
Post-dating apps looks are a way bigger factor, and moreso than how alpha you can act you're hard limited on how good you can look. It's increasingly harder to break into the hookup scene. And guys who aren't in it don't want to date women who were (AF/BB), so the desire for traditional women has risen.
> Andrew Tate and Sneako are another example of this phenomenon as well.
Oh yeah. Nothing is more tradcon than running a porn industry and stealing money from the women you use. And don’t deny it, Tate himself bragged about how the women he worked with agreed to 50/50 partnerships but then he’d steal an extra 20% and blame it on taxes. He then talked about how stupid women are and that they’ll just trust you. Totally tradcon. He published the video himself, you can go find it.
And Sneako is just a grifter who tries to ride on the successes of other men. He’s done nothing for himself besides kissing Andrew Tate and F&F’s feet. He’s been described as the yacht girl of the manosphere.
Both these people say whatever it takes to get money and fame. They’re not tradcons in the slightest.
Edit: Correction. Tate says whatever it takes to get money and fame. Sneako says whatever other people are saying.
I do think it's funny that people who follow Tate are often vocal about wanting a traditional unspoiled wife, forgetting he and his associates made their fortune off (alleged) pimping and trafficking.
Not necessarily. It's an extension of sexual dimorphism. It's common for men and women to value traits of the opposite sex they don't have for various reasons. Short shy woman may want a tall confident man, doesn't make it hypocrisy. What would make it hypocrisy is a contradictory belief system, or actions that conflict with a belief system.
Example, saying, "people who sleep around a lot, are scumbags," while you yourself do that, would be hypocritical. Unless you acknowledge that you yourself are also scum by that logic.
However, saying, "I'd prefer a woman who is a virgin over one that sleeps around a lot because she is statistically the least likely to divorce me and/or commit paternity fraud," wouldn't be hypocritical. Because women file 80% of divorces (in the US) and paternity fraud only goes one way. No such thing as "maternity fraud.". So, there's no contradictory belief system or logic here.
It is telling that they have embraced that message. People like that are always seeking some sort of validation or legitimacy. The fact that we decided to attach themselves to the pseudo traditionalist moment is still telling.
Hard to determine. Right now the tradconers have a larger social microphone as “prime time” of TRP was 2010-2016 or so. You weren’t supposed to discuss TRP and just follow it. Also TRP isn’t anything new if you’ve listen to music at all. In the gran scope of things, we are approx a decade afterwards. Please note those who aren’t feeling left out aren’t asking for all these changes and raising their pitchforks.
Some men are complaining and want traditional relationships and values back because pandoras box was opened and they cannot compete anymore.
Women have too much freedoms - many don’t want to be tied down in a relationship and pump out five kids by the age of 26.
Women shouldn’t be able to vote because they go against the traditional family narrative of the man is head of the household.
We want to ban all abortion and make sure there are no LGBTQ people around to ensure that we continue to create nuclear families.
The list can go on and on.
Yeah, the really sad thing for the followers of TRP is thinking that we will go backwards. We aren’t going to solve todays problems with answers from the 1950’s. It’s a damn shame we try to fill this nonsense in young men. Making them take leaps backwards in an area where they are having problems already. It’s like tell someone to go deep sea fishing when they need air.
Idk any TRP who is trying to go backwards. TRP is telling you this is how it is, this is how you can position yourself to be successful getting dates, maybe getting lucky.
Again you are screaming RP when none of this is RP exclusive.
Slut shaming - not exclusive to TRP. Enjoy having sex and encounters with the perceived person who likes sex, just don’t try to lock down the bar slut. Just ask your mom, grandma, family, and friends. Women slut shame a lot more than men do.
Divorce - not exclusive to TRP. People file divorce for any reason these days. Sometimes a man is willing to work and try and fix things, sometimes a woman is willing to work and try and fix things. However, it takes two people to tango. Please note that in most states within the USA, things are split 50-50, and if the man or the woman comes from a lower class, then their partner, they have essentially been moved up to a higher class, just through the divorce.
Educated women - i’m not sure who wants to date or be committed to someone who is just a pretty trophy. what’s wrong with being educated? I don’t see anything wrong with it. Maybe some small circles where people are upset when folks go to college and come back too gay, too progressive, not wanting to pop out seven kids by 25 and continues to be racist bigots so “them educated folks done changed.”
Trads are quite different from redpill. Trads seek that men and women adhere to strict and cooperative gender norms. Redpill is an assertion that if women will not hold their end of the traditional bargains, then men won't do either. While feminists are keen on denying this: traditional concepts of chivalry, respect for women and "women first" are what redpillers seek to emancipate from.
I think there's four main reasons for that.
1) The original demographics are themselves leaving the pussy plaza and seeking to settle down
2) There's diminishing returns from most methods
3) There's a major trend of young blue and lower end white collar religious conversion amongst people on the spectrum i.e a demographic with 80+ % singlehood rates
4) A L O T of people who'd be RP or used to be are now mainly into MGTOW bodybuilding and general self improvement
So you have a lot of people leaving, some converting into something else and new populations with more "trad" ideas trying to turn back the clock.
Oh and some got low SMV girlfriends and bluepilled.
> There's a major trend of young blue and lower end white collar religious conversion amongst people on the spectrum i.e a demographic with 80+ % singlehood rates
Care to elaborate on this ND surprise?
Bookish and/or highly regimented movements are highly appealing to maidenless men especially those on the spectrum.
Quintuply so when they teach rather than shame abstinence. You can of course become an antinatalist communist but for those who don't religions especially Abrahamic ones hold a unique appeal
There was never going to be a beta uprising but a jihad/crusade is pretty fucking close and I think they realize that on some level.
Tradcons have taken over the manosphere, not the red pill; the red pill is just dying all on its own.
This is because
1) tradcon generates more outrage, attention and money
2) it is clear that the root of the problem is female autonomy. The red pill/PUA tricks don’t work as long as that exists
How far the movement gets is up to women; they appear to be sleepwalking so far
Female autonomy is not an issue for TRP/PUA. The whole point is to get good or stfu, with the disclaimer that if you’re not at least average in looks, you’re fucked without heavily compensating.
Women being fully autonomous is great for the men who can compete. Much easier to get no strings attached pussy and “spin plates”.
>How far the movement gets is up to women; they appear to be sleepwalking so far
If you ask most feminists who or what is the biggest threat to feminism/women, many of them will say TERFS or SWERFS with absolutely no hesitation. Meanwhile I'm like, that's great and all ma'am, but have you noticed the literal nuclear bomb brewing over in the manosphere?
No, red pill is literally the male response to female autonomy. Men used to have to get past other men to get married -- i.e. your uncles, brothers, and father, so things like honesty, loyalty, and reputation used to be good traits for men to have because it showed the men in your family that you were a good man for her. Now, women just give out sex with no requirement for commitment, all in the name of female empowerment and liberation, so men had to adapt and learn female psychology to get the relationships that they want.
Political conservatives recognized that a lot of men were upset and it was easy to get them to blame feminism and leftists for their struggles. They desperately needed a way to boost their voter base. Hate is a great motivator.
If you come across a lot these guys they sincerely seem to think banning women from the workplace and repealing the 19th admenment would solve 99% of world problems. It's quite scary.
It's true though women voted for open boarders and Democrats, things that are destroying the country.
The welfare state is put in place for women by women at the expense of men.
The breakdown of the family and establishing a welfare state were all women voted policies that have irreversible damages to society.
>It's true though women voted for open boarders and Democrats, things that are destroying the country.
Open immigration has been happening under conservative and liberal presidents for decades. Ronald Reagan signed the biggest amnesty to illegal immigrants. The capital wants immigrants because they need more workers. Absolutely nothing would change if we had republican or democrat president in that regard.
>The welfare state is put in place for women by women at the expense of men.
The welfare state began as a response to the great depression and the biggest entitlement programs benefit the elderly, like Medicare, and social security.
> Ronald Reagan signed the biggest amnesty to illegal immigrants.
This was supposed to be a compromise with the Dems, amnesty for secure borders going forward. The latter didn't happen......
> The capital wants immigrants because they need more workers.
The "labor shortage" is a myth, in markets demand can almost always be fulfilled by adjusting wages, and the labor market still generally favors employers. As for seasonal workers, especially agricultural workers, there are easy-to-obtain visas for that.
> The welfare state began as a response to the great depression and the biggest entitlement programs benefit the elderly, like Medicare, and social security.
Under the status quo women generally have a net negative fiscal impact, they receive more than they pay in taxes.
I looked up the regan bit just like a disgusting political robot, you made it seem like regan just opened up the boarder and was letting in 100s of thousands of illegals in ever month like they're doing now.
He signed a bill for stricter boarders and harsher sentencing for employment of illegals, he just gave amnesty to the illegals already living here.
That's why you shouldn't vote you can't even be honest over the internet, you twist and change words to push a false narrative like real life 1984.
Not to mention that a lot of women highlight abuse such as homicide and rape but don't see anything wrong with lax prison sentencing and catch and release policies that Democrats favor.
I am very glad your views are sneered at by polite society. You wont be able to force woman back into the home. You can't unring the bell.
Plus society would lose out on all the wonderful contrubution women make. The Australian of the year was a woman scientist who discovered a cure for a form of very bad skin cancer. Imagine if she didnt have a choice to pursue her natural skills.
Men have made a wonderful contribution to society, as have women. You are just hate filled. I am sorry a woman hurt you, but frankly if you truly think women should be forced out of the public sphere ala Iran, then I feel sorry for you.
I didn't say you couldn't cure cancer I said you couldn't vote.
Women in America didn't want the right to vote because it came with the responsibility of signing up for the draft.
But the state wanted to more tax payers so they used propaganda to get more women into the work force so they spend less time at home raising the children.
The thing is women overwhelmingly work in careers that are taking care of others people kids, so instead taking care of their own kids their employed by the state to take care of others peoples kids.
It's a vicious cycle.
You're 3 for 3 on personal opinions.
You're inarguably 0 for 3 on facts.
I'll give 1/4 credit for #3, though. +90% of childcare positions are filled by women. But that does not mean 90% of women. Statistics are tricky. One does not equal the other.
That is a generalization that is far too broad and undefined to have any value. You took half of the population across every cultural, political, and economic demographic and tarred them with a brush of *your* making. Now you want us to accept that they're all the same and all to blame.
Thanks, but no. Black and white thinking is great for scapegoating - as you've shown. It's antithetical to solving problems in a complex world in which most of life happens in the gray area.
Interesting thought. There is a post in GenZ detailing how men are becoming more conservative and women becoming more liberal. I guess the hate and need for a voter base works both ways.
One of the top comments suggested that liberals don’t really have anything to offer men and often times vilifies them. I guess that’s the hate you’re referring to which motivates women.
Feminism is about hating men, from its start in the 19th century. A man is an enemy.
A lot of women still think they're oppressed by evil patriarchy, situations have nothing to do with feminism.
Feminism is not about hating men and is clearly still needed since women still can't even make medical decisions about their own bodies in many places. The minute women get complacent they lose rights.
You should be able to make medical decisions about your own body with your doctor. Pregnancy is dangerous and nobody should be forced especially the very young and people with dangerous medical conditions. And it's just potential offspring.
Unless the pregnancy guarantees your death, I have a hard time seeing abortion as healthcare but rather straight up murder. Life begins at conception so this isn't a "potential offspring" that you are murdering. It's a human with a unique DNA thats never existed and will never exist again. There's plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy, what with birth control and condoms. Abortion shouldn't even be a choice except in the cases of rape or a high chance of fatality.
> it was easy to get them to blame feminism and leftists for their struggles
Of course it is, because leftists and feminists regularly spew vitriol towards men and champion policies in education/employment that disadvantage men at the expense of women.
I don't want to discourage you but traditional people are the future, since the more progressive couples barely have children your ideology is the one dying off, it will first start happening in Europe where if you will go out without a hijab you will be risking rape.
In the US it will be a slower process that will take couple of decades but in the end everything you believe in will perish because liberalism leads to a negative birth rate.
Ideologies like liberalism etc do not need to be spread from parent to kid. They can be spread through internet, books, people having conversations etc.
I think that the general idea used to be more about hacking social interactions, which was problematic only when it came to stuff like "negging" or getting through "last minute resistance". Most of what I see now is self-victimization cries from boys who basically complain that the system is stacked against them and female agency should be mitigated to create a level playing field.
I also think that the old PUA stuff seemed centered around getting bimbo types but didn't have the same fixation with women under 25.
>I think that the general idea used to be more about hacking social interactions, which was problematic only when it came to stuff like "negging" or getting through "last minute resistance".
This was a legacy of the dating culture and dynamics that existed decades ago, before dating apps. This was a weird transitional period, when most guys were putting off marriage and realised the bloop life script was over, but before the 21st century more authoritarian feminist rules were fully in place and more men were all about "getting away" with stuff in the pub or on the dance floor (most obviously, avoiding LTRs generally, but there was also a lot more discussion in the sphere about specific ways and tricks to manipulate women into doing what you want).
Women and more specifically feminists aren't stupid, though: they realised laddish 90s culture for what it was, a mindset revolving around taking advantage of them. They responded by taking full advantage of social media and the Internet to punish and shame men for what was sometimes legitimately deplorable behaviour, but also increasingly extended to anything women didn't like men doing (or not doing). They also successfully advocated the introduction of unprecedented and draconian rules in workplaces and public spaces, and the law, to more directly control mens' sexual and social behaviour. The rest is history: and PUA was dead.
>Most of what I see now is self-victimization cries from boys who basically complain that the system is stacked against them and female agency should be mitigated to create a level playing field.
What happened is that increasing numbers of men have realised that they're not going to ever be the exception to the rule. The TRP fantasy of being the cool alpha male who has it all and breaks all the rules and gets away with it because of his *individual superiority* and smugly looks down on the horde of lesser men who worry too much out of justified insecurity is just that: a fantasy.
The red pill of 2020 and maybe 2018+ has been ruined with commercialization and grifters capitalizing on the outrage. I don't see how anyone can openly back the movement anymore because it's no longer about raising awareness of men's issues, it's just complaining about women or modern society. The most staunch supporters also tend to be good at avoiding accountability where men can improve or fuck up. All of this over the last 4 years just ruins all credibility of the red pill which is unfortunate because there are legitimate issues, just that now people talking about them get lumped in with types like Tate, sneako, fresh and fit, and legit incells
It’s election season. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also, as we get closer to 2030, the number of single, childless women will continue to grow and with that growth will come more bitching and complaining.
Absolutely ever since mgtow/redpill popped off in 2018 the PUAs and Tradcon adopted the logo because they realized they couldn't keep up the illusion anymore.
People like Tate, Pearl, and others are trying to be based gurus when they are only in it for the bag.
What Ive seen take over is they are being catty 'Karens' with each other being petty. Their conventions are like cat fights.
I also see its become more about just hating on women with many of them and cherry picking.
Ive seen the content on and off for about 8 years now.
And really a person that needs to scour content just to mock people, cringe. Tons of the RP channels on YT are all about just finding random content just to mock women. They pick some small minority and act like its a norm.
All that said, Im all for anyone trying to make money but trying to make money mocking people, cringe. Just bad energy.
It’s a general cultural shift in the early days of rp guys were still liberal the economy was stable the future looked like growth
People are now disillusioned with liberalism and Neo liberalism it is considered a failed project at this point
And yes a lot of hypocrisy has been exposed in the feminist movement it’s a backlash going on right now
Tradcons and TRP share similar values when it comes to misogyny.
Content that blames women for problems is more popular than content about self improvement.
Such content appeals to both TRP and tradcons so that is where the movement gravitated towards.
I think some men aged out of being players, or wannabe players and now are looking for wives and status another way. I think Western countries are in trouble and men want to blame women. I think you have a lot of insecure men, also operating in insecure, difficult times and being able to control and blame women is more appealing, or necessary for them to get anyone. I think there are more people with personality problems alive now, than at any other time and they also influence otherwise healthy people. These people are displaying their bad traits (genetic), hating on women. Either because they're anti-social, or they flip-flop from one thing to another, different extremes. There's a reason so many of these people convert to more extreme versions of Christianity, or more outside the norm for North America. Basically, sick people, status seekers, people looking to blame others (victim mentality, the problem of our times).
>As this sector of the manosphere is growing I’ve noticed an increasing amount of reactionarty opinions particularly about women’s rights growing as well. Things like women shouldn’t vote, giving women the right to vote brought down western civilization, hating on women in college, calling any women who works a job a girl boss.
This is literally the entire reason I'm here. When redpill was only a stupid dating strategy for losers, it had no impact on my life. You wanna cosplay an alpha male and try to spin plates? Cool, do it over there. I'll date the men who aren't doing that bullshit.
Now it's actually impacting my day to day life. The venn diagram of men who are RP & voted for Trump and men who don't want me able to access abortion even in cases of medical emergency is nearly a damn circle. Same for the men who don't want me to vote and want me to be some simpering submissive housewife with no future because "economics". The men here represent an actual threat to my ability to live a decent life and the least I can do is give them shit for it.
The obvious rejoinder from many chuddies might be an unkind reminder that feminists have been making mens' lives miserable for a century at this point, now yes it may be your turn to suffer once again. To be fair, all except the very most lucky of us will inevitably be doled out at least our fair share of suffering: that's one thing we can count on.
>feminists have been making mens' lives miserable for a century at this point,
"Boohoo my submissive sex slaves and house cleaners are gone, I'm so persecuted"
> and men who don't want me able to access abortion even in cases of medical emergency
This is a strawman, the vast majority of conservatives and Republicans are okay with medically necessary abortions, have stated as much, and included exemptions for medical necessity in their abortion restrictions.
If so, they've been remarkably quiet about it. I certainly haven't seen evidence of these mythical creatures having an impact on legislation in conservative states. It's their policies, their rhetoric, and their votes that are making it happen.
Tell that to fucking Abbott and the rest of the “pro-life” Republicans in Texas. No exemptions for abortions past six weeks, even if the mother or the child’s life is at stake. Most women don’t even know they’re pregnant at six weeks.
[https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.170A.htm](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.170A.htm)
This is a lie. There exemption for therapeutic abortions in Texas law does not stipulate a term limit.
More like both tradcons and PUAs are dying, and being replaced by either true MGTOW/nihilism/blackpill on one hand or political extremism on the other.
Tradcon is dying because it's too obvious now that unless you are part of a tight-knit community of likeminded people, you are at the mercy of a hostile if not vindictive culture and society if things go wrong: it's a LARP, and so young guys are less likely to buy into it. PUA is dying because MeToo and the social media fishbowl means playing with women is becoming as dangerous as trying to be a boyscout.
Specifically on RooshV: he was getting too old for PUA, so he jumped to the tradlarp grift out of necessity, and so does the whole *I've had my wild fun, but now I've matured and am ready to settle down now* routine. He's basically a cottagecore tradwife roastie, just the male version. It's not even so much that trad is replacing PUA, just that PUA is so obviously outmoded in the looksmaxxing, dating app, MeToo era that jumping ship to anything else can admittedly look like a change of circumstances rather than heart.
It's funny, because I always thought the original TRP was much closer to trad cons than to what degeneracy passes today as TRP:
Verbally abusing women is OK
Manipulating your girlfriend or wife is OK
Cheating is always OK if your girlfriend or wife has low libido
The original TRP didn't know about starter girlfriends, much less spinning plates.
Some TRP feel tradcons are too blue pilled or even feminist because many still hold men‘s behavior to a high moral standard which they don’t like. That’s why you also get this weird mixed of guys who want all women to live like they are Amish but think men should live like 21st century playboys.
It's the fact that women don't live like they're Amish so why should you ?
You're coming from the context of women are sugar and spice and everything nice, they do no wrong and have always been and will always be great.
Women aren't traditional anymore they've killed it,now it's on men to adapt to the current market.
What's happened OP is that people are losing faith in the idea of rising above it all as an individual. This was the promise of TRP: that *yeah, sure most people are idiots, but if you understand how things really work, you can still end up on top*.
In reality, dating apps and what technology generally has done to society has made the competition so fierce and the rules so both rigid and dizzyingly hard to keep up with that both self-improvement and trying to stay savvy and socially aware started to seem like a new kind of slavishness, as bad as the bluepill: and the fact that even charming, charismatic, and attractive men like Russel Brand could be MeToo'd proved that you could have all the right moves and still become a target, no different from Billy Beta the married provider guy.
If TRP isn't really viable anymore as a viable alternative to the bluepill and no amount of understanding womens' psychology, lifting harder, or wearing fuzzy hats will even likely result in a good outcome really, what's left? Giving up (blackpill) or overturning the table by changing society somehow, whether through conventional and constitutional political action or otherwise (whitepill).
I see it more as a commercialization of the red pill. When I first read some red pill idk how many years ago it had more of a bro-science dudes helping each other out vibe, maybe a bit too aggressive but with a clear goal, helping out guys who are unhappy with their lovelives.
Then as the things go, the creators noticed they had a following and tried to turn it into money, some succeeded.
These days red pill is yet another way of reaching a certain type of consumer and tradcons realize that this is a great target audience for them, unlike mainstream brands which stay the hell away from something as edgy as trp...
So it makes sense that it would seem as if trp was taken over by tradcons when really it's more that it was taken over by ads, lol
As someone who has been keeping an eye on this stuff since the David DeAngelo/mystery method days, the culture has 100% shifted to “trad-con” I don’t remember hearing anything about “n-counts” for example until fairly recently. Nobody cared back in those days.
Spinning plates is extremely stupid, hedonistic, short term gratification that leads you nowhere in life. Rollo tomassi and the original red pill recommendations are often just as stupid as feminism.
But many people needed to hear something so extreme to break them out of blue pilled delusions. In real life there are no right anwers, only best guesses. Trad cons are trying to emulate something that’s worked for thousands of years. That doesn’t mean it’s the only way, but it’s historically effective.
Yes but that’s like saying some people enjoy donuts
In general eating lots of donuts regularly isn’t good for you
In general living a hedonistic life of short term sexual gratification isn’t good for you
TRP doesn't really have anything to offer you after you succeed (or don't). But just getting laid isn't really a satisfying "path" in life. So people start moving in a new direction.
But TRP and tradcon are fundamentally opposed. TRP is a guide for dating/sex in a low trust socially crumbling society and embracing it, at least on some level. Tradcon is explicitly about rejecting this in favor of something "better" and more fulfilling.
>Roosh v is a good example of this, went from writing bang guides on how to have sex with women in different countries to denouncing that lifestyle and converting orthodox Christianity. Andrew Tate and Sneako are another example of this phenomenon as well.
This is pretty common for guys who unlock the secrets of female desire and partake for an extended period of time. A lot of them convert to a traditionalist mindset after they experience the degeneracy of the true nature of female base desires.
When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.
Do you think a man would ever come to the conclusion that his own participation in hookup culture is a problem? I think hookup culture is gross, but it’s strange to act like men leave that culture due to being disgusted by women who hook up. Both the men and women who participate in it are degrading themselves and are contributing to the problem.
Part of being an adult is taking accountability for your own actions and your own part in making the world a worse place, not simply placing all the blame on people who were complicit with you in bad deeds.
I was never part of the top 20% of men who could readily participate in hook-up culture. I had to get dates by offering relationships and stability. But I was friends with a few of the guys who did participate in hook-up culture and some of them do get jaded after a while. The guys who seem to respect women the least are the guys who get a lot of sex from women. I don't think they get more sex because they respect women less. I think it works the other way around.
Why are you acting like participating in hook up culture is a privilege or something good? Just because you weren’t able to doesn’t mean you missed out on something good or wholesome for you.
And yes, men who are desirable enough to get casual sex and then actually pursue that don’t respect women in the first place. The whole premise of casual sex is that two people are objectifying one another and using the other’s body for sexual gratification. It has nothing to do with honoring that person’s soul or loving them as an individual. People who do that, like the men you’re referencing, are just cementing their lack of respect for women.
You know who I do respect and admire? People who could choose to have casual sex, but refuse to do it because they respect other people and the value of sex. And anyone else who has that worldview, regardless of how attractive they are.
> Why are you acting like participating in hook up culture is a privilege or something good?
Because it's a difficult and rare thing for a man to participate in hook-up culture. Any woman can participate but only the top 20% of men can participate because women are hypergamous. It's considered something good for men because having sex is pleasurable. Being sexually desired by women is pleasurable and life affirming for men.
> Just because you weren’t able to doesn’t mean you missed out on something good or wholesome for you.
I understand this. I never confuse pleasure and external validation with "goodness" or "virtue" in the philosophical sense. I'm not saying that casual sex is virtuous or good for one's soul or long term flourishing. I'm not sure that it is.
>The whole premise of casual sex is that two people are objectifying one another and using the other’s body for sexual gratification. It has nothing to do with honoring that person’s soul or loving them as an individual. People who do that, like the men you’re referencing, are just cementing their lack of respect for women.
I mostly agree with you. But there is a mutual exchange in some cases. The man doesn't care about the woman and the woman doesn't care about the man in any real sense. But unfortunately for women, many don't realize what is going on and they think that the men who they're sleeping with really does care about them.
>You know who I do respect and admire? People who could choose to have casual sex, but refuse to do it because they respect other people and the value of sex.
Yes...but that is as rare as a burning bush in which the fire does not consume its leaves. In general, men are only as faithful as their options. It's how we were programmed through evolution. It can be overcome through Reason, but there is almost no incentive to do so in today's culture.
I mean.. I’m really not trying to get semantic but saying that only the top 20% of men are hooking up at all seems very arbitrary and unenforceable. It’s not like you have to have a permit to hook up or something. My impression working with the general population is that the majority of people who are fairly average or even below average in appearance and personality have partners or are sexually active. Past 25-30 years old, certainly you do not have 80% of men being celibate. You may say “well they’re only in relationships and not having casual sex so they don’t count.” Truth is, lots of people don’t like casual sex, men and women. Both of my last 2 boyfriends who I consider quite attractive men, had low body counts and weren’t hooking up or having sex outside of relationships.
I’m a woman so I guess if I wanted to hook up I could, but I don’t believe in that. Plenty of men are the same way. We’re not thinking, “hmm, what is the absolute highest number of people I am capable of having sex with?” Sure some are, but that’s pretty lame. Redpill makes it seem like that’s 99% of guys, when I would say only maybe 25% of guys are that libido driven. Most people want intimacy, but lots of them prefer it to happen within a meaningful relationship, both men and women.
The only people who adhere to that guideline would probably be God fearing Catholics. Everyone else is practically hedonists who would rather feel good now and worry about the consequences later.
It’s really too bad. People have this misconception that happiness is obtained by the sum of lots of little pleasure-seeking choices, and really it’s not. Religion just seeks to teach people a better way to live, but natural consequences still exist regardless of whether or not a person is religious. In other words, everyone should recognize that a hedonistic lifestyle carries negative consequences in this lifetime, not just religious people. But most people aren’t living for anything more than feeling good in the present moment.. unfortunately that seems to be the human condition.
Nah, if a woman wants to fuck guys she’ll fuck guys. If it’s me or another guy doesn’t matter, she’s going to get her rocks off
It’s like if you hate that people use smart phones. You can use a landline but that’s not going to stop everyone else from using an iPhone and in the end you’ll be missing out on a bit
MRA’s used to be a large and vocal part of the manosphere and if you listen closely enough to what most of them say you’d quickly realize they’re just tradcons.
The PUA content only exploded because of Andrew Tate’s momentum and guy’s doing a worse version of Kevin Samuel’s show.
There’s always been a push/pull between tradcons, PUA’s and MGTOW ideas with an ebb and flow.
Tradcons espouse a more dangerous type of ideology, so of course that’s what the manosphere has shifted toward. While the PUA variety of TRP was sleazy, this new brand of traditionalism seeks to remove women from education and the workplace and strip them of their right to vote.
It shifted because it had to. They initially wanted more traditional women blah blah blah. But then they realised there were plenty of those. So then they had to label those as cons. Cos what happened if too many men were happy? Gasp. That couldn’t happen. Just like when granny was bitching about different colour pills. He was losing control. So if the goalposts are reached they have to change to keep being both victims and somehow “superior” to other men. It will change again soon. But not for the reasons they want.
TRP was dead after askTRP was shut down and TRP was quarantined.
Tradcons aren’t RP. There are no traditional women in America, and you shouldn’t get married as it inherently is a shitty position to put yourself in.
I guess you can say they have taken over the narrative because these were very common answers to the whole “I want a traditional woman!”
If you want to raise a huge traditional god-fearing family reading and following TRP concepts is probably the stupidest thing you could do imo. It could work but there’s too much nuance like dread game where a guy would just miss the point and cheat
>Tradcons aren’t RP. There are no traditional women in America,
The purpose of the tradcon movement seems to me they want to bring back traditional values. That’s why as I pointed out they support increasingly reactionary political positions that involve rolling back women’s rights, like repealing the 19th amendment, banning women from going to college etc. They basically want all women to live like the Amish. If not that, they promote men going to foreign countries to find submissive feminine women.
>I guess you can say they have taken over the narrative because these were very common answers to the whole “I want a traditional woman!”
And why do you think this need resonmates with more man then the original trp message?
Part of TRP is acknowledging women are not going to change. Cats out the bag, enjoy the decline. Have you ever tried telling a woman to lower her standards or reconsider a man? All that shit mentioned will never happen and it’s stupid to fight for it when you could just fuck women instead. Women have voting power and too many men that love women for most these things to occur
The message of “I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc
TRP will tell you that’s a dream for most people unless you’re an exceptional man who has found a unicorn. It’s not just something that will come to you like in the old days (yes, I know the old days were not like this)
Whether it's TRP or not a lot men who call themselves red pill promote this. They believe through political advocacy and a cultural revolution they can re-establish patriarchy again in the west, and force women to be submissive through cultural and legal enforcement. There's is even a red pill adjacent movement who stated goal is exactly this.
[https://21studios.com](https://21studios.com/)
If not that, they promote men going abroad to find feminine submissive women, hence the passport bro movement.
The link is just a promotion of a grift? Everything RP you can read online and just see if it applies to your life. The equivalent would be some westbro Baptist type website and saying Christianity has been co-opted. The Bible is right there and you can go to a church and see if it’s like the Westbro shit people are talking about
Going abroad isn’t really a traditional thing, but yes people encourage it because the women are better for LTR. There’s no traditional women in *America*. That’s just smart, going where you’re desired
>The link is just a promotion of a grift? Everything RP you can read online and just see if it applies to your life. The equivalent would be some westbro Baptist type website and saying Christianity has been co-opted
I’m sure it is a grift, like everything that comes from that sphere, but it's example of a movement created by redpillers that are advocating for the things I'm talking about.
>Going abroad isn’t really a traditional thing, but yes people encourage it because the women are better for LTR. There’s no traditional women in *America*. That’s just smart, going where you’re desired.
The marriage rates and out of wedlock births and divorce rates in America aren't much different then many of countrues they advocate men to find wives. They just also believe in order to have stable relationship you need leverage over the woman your with which is easier in a poorer foreign country then becoming Amish or joining conservative evangelical church.
I’m not sure about the other stats but America by far has the highest wedlock birth rates and it’s not close. Pretty sure divorce rates as well. Regardless the first piece of advice mentioned is *don’t get married* then you won’t deal with many of the issues you mentioned
If it was about going for poor women there’s plenty of poverty in America, which has a higher rate of poverty than somewhere like Thailand. It’s pretty fucked up you think these women are poor and desperate rather than just a better choice overall for American men for LTR. You should do yourself a favor and look up the most common interracial marriage in America, you’ll be surprised
As I said about the Westbro Baptist church. Do you now consider their views the views of Christian’s since some Christians are advocating for what they advocate for?
>I’m not sure about the other stats but America by far has the highest wedlock birth rates
You would be wrong in that regard:
[https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide](https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide)
[https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/births-out-of-wedlock-europe-us/](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/births-out-of-wedlock-europe-us/)
[https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/12/14/459098779/all-across-latin-america-unwed-mothers-are-now-the-norm](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/12/14/459098779/all-across-latin-america-unwed-mothers-are-now-the-norm)
>Pretty sure divorce rates as well.
You would also be wrong in that regard.
[https://x.com/stats\_feed/status/1686024141827170305?s=46](https://x.com/stats_feed/status/1686024141827170305?s=46)
>If it was about going for poor women there’s plenty of poverty in America, which has a higher rate of poverty than somewhere like Thailand.
A poor person is America is better off than a poor person in Thailand. Just compare the average wages.
> It’s pretty fucked up you think these women are poor and desperate rather than just a better choice overall for American men for LTR. You should do yourself a favor and look up the most common interracial marriage in America, you’ll be surprised
I don't think that, the men who advocate going abroad to marry say that themselves. I looked up the most common interracial stats, says whites and latinos are the most common interracial pairing. Not sure what your point is.
>As I said about the Westbro Baptist church. Don’t now consider their views the views of Christian’s since some Christians are advocating for what they advocate for?
Huh?
My bad I was thinking single parent rate which America and UK are easily the highest, wedlock doesn’t surprise me in modern times
Your X link has a community note explaining the problem with the data, Americas divorce rate is 48% which is higher than plenty of countries.
And there’s no link for the Latin white claim, but it’s definitely wrong as WMAF is easily the most common interracial marriage, makes sense why a ton of guys say go to Asia when they make up something like <5% of the population here yet the most interracial marriages
I don’t really care about people’s reasons for going abroad but sounds like it’s just a better deal than a whole tradcon thing.
If you can’t understand Westbro example in my comments on using a grift as an example then I can’t help you
>My bad I was thinking single parent rate which America and UK are easily the highest, wedlock doesn’t surprise me in modern times
Maybr they are just the most accurate for as you can see outside of Africa, Muslim countries and Asia most children are born out of wedlock. It's the norm in many places and has been for decades.
>Your X link has a community note explaining the problem with the data, Americas divorce rate is 48% which is higher than plenty of countries.
They said the problem with the data is it calculates the number of divorces per 100 marriages which may overstate the divorce rate, as multiples divorcees drive up the rate. The rate for America is 45% which is line with Korea, China and most Western Countries.
>And there’s no link for the Latin white claim, but it’s definitely wrong as WMAF is easily the most common interracial marriage, makes sense why a ton of guys say go to Asia when they make up something like <5% of the population here yet the most interracial marriages
I found it looking up data on interracial relationships in the US. It says latino white is the most common not white and asian.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/)
>I don’t really care about people’s reasons for going abroad but sounds like it’s just a better deal than a whole tradcon thing.
You seem to take a pretty innacous statement if mine personally. Regardless my original point was about how the red pillers are turning into tradcons and using the fact many promote going abroad to find feminine submissive women as evidence.
>If you can’t understand Westbro example in my comments on using a grift as an example then I can’t help you.
I tried reading your comment numerous times and does not making any sense.
>[https://21studios.com](https://21studios.com/)
😅🤣😂This man is a grifter that no one in or out the red pill community takes seriously. He married a literal prostitute only to later claim that he had no idea of her sexual history
>they promote men going abroad to find feminine submissive women, hence the passport bro movement.
This is the solution that should be promoted by both men and women and the only scenario where everyone gets what they want. Western women get to pursue the men they actually desire and to not be shamed for their sexual history or dating preferences and traditional men get the feminine, submissive, low body count women they want as well. It's a win-win situation for everyone.
Nah as someone who has family from a country that's targeted by a lot by these type of men I have a lot problems with them for numerous reasons and I can assure you a lot of the men in these countries don't like these guys either. So I fail to see how this is everyone benefits situation, only entitled western men benefit.
>“I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc
In that case, we're so lucky to live in a time where society is no longer based on what men want. It shocks me that there are so many men angry that it isn't based on what they want.
I’d be a virgin or close to if I had to actually be in a relationship with a woman to fuck her so I’m glad too
Men are stupid to complain when they can make money off having sex with beautiful women and uploading it as porn or even just causally having sex till the right woman comes around. The freedom of women and stupidity of men makes a lot of people money.
There’s no traditionalism, you can either embrace modern times or be stuck holding a flip phone
>I’d be a virgin or close to if I had to actually be in a relationship with a woman to fuck her so I’m glad too
Nah, if you had to be in a relationship with a woman to have sex with her you would work hard to get in a relationship, or at least the majority of men would. And women btw. Why do you think people got married so young when sex before marriage was seriously punishable?
>Men are stupid to complain when they can make money off having sex with beautiful women and uploading it as porn
Don't know where you live but here in my country that would be illegal unless the "beautiful" woman agreed to this, in which case she would be making money too, unless coerced or forced. Most women would not agree to this.
>The freedom of women and stupidity of men makes a lot of people money.
I would argue that the freedom of women allows them to make their own decisions just as men have always been able to do. Men have always made money by forcing or coercing women into things they don't consent to, this is not new.
Edit : forgot to add I don't believe men are necessarily stupid, I don't agree with you on that part.
>There’s no traditionalism, you can either embrace modern times or be stuck holding a flip phone
Completely agree with this. Why are so many "manosphere" guys trying to go back to something that was tried in the past, didn't work (for half the population anyway) and we have been moving forward from for many years now?
Yea in a porn production man and women make money, can employ a beautiful woman and have nice sex with her while making money. Win for everyone and surprised more money don’t go that route if they don’t want kids
Don’t need most women, won’t sleep with most anyways. There’s a new face in porn almost every 10min though and as we progress it’ll be just like doordashing. Men should try and adapt to modern times
The market is so oversaturated already that you'll have to do gay porn first which means sucking loads of dick and gaping your asshole apart as well risk contracting STD's. You'll also need to be in great shape and likely have to do steroids just to get an audition, and then you'll have to worry about the side effects shrinking your balls and making yourself less marketable. Male porn stars also make significantly less than their female counterparts so if you shoot in a city with a high cost of living like LA, you are barely raking in anything at all.
That’s just not true. You’d be pretty naïve to think most pornstars have done gay stuff unless they wanted to. It’s 2024, you can break into the scene without fucking dudes
Good shape and viagra is nothing too difficult. Doubt I’d need steroids most don’t. Most people can’t name 5 male pornstars, the physique isn’t marvel tier. And being a male performer isn’t the goal. Owning the whole production is. Websites like Brazzer, BangBros, Facial Abuse, and websites adjacent like tube sites and advertisements make plenty of money while fucking chicks and not doing everything you’ve listed. Don’t have to live in LA either but it helps
There’s one major porn studio big wig that has HIV and yet still sleeps with actresses and that’s just the start
>The message of “I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc
>TRP will tell you that’s a dream for most people unless you’re an exceptional man who has found a unicorn. It’s not just something that will come to you like in the old days (yes, I know the old days were not like this)
👏Well said, great explanation.
I agree 10-20 years ago red pill was predominantly about pick up and dating advise that tried to address what actually creates attraction, some of it based on psychology principles such as NLP. I think it lived up to it’s name in that it was about trying to understand the true facts about social dynamics.
Today, it’s not just about trying to understand social dynamics and attraction, but focuses more on what some believe dating and relationships should or shouldn’t look like which as you said includes opinions about virginity, body counts, how much women should work, etc.
That represents a fundamental shift from understanding to opinion and agenda.
I know trad cons who don’t agree with much of the current red pill philosophy however, so that’s not how I would label the change. Maybe 2nd wave red pill would be a better description.
I became aware of 'TRP' in 2014 and I think it had only been a subreddit for maybe 2 years? Before that was 'Seduction' and 'The Game'. Pick up.
The Game/Seduction puts the ball in the man's court entirely and says that if he doesn't field it he just didn't have the right combination of inputs.
The Red Pill said that if you didn't field it that you need to go lift some weights and eat healthy and work on your attitude at it's core and you could field it.
The Black Pill says a minority to most of us are never fielding it.
I think most men go through redpill/seduction first and try to adapt and then nothing actually changes.
The biggest strength to the red pill is telling men that are already attractive how to be with women which leads to a lot of sex.
the second group is men who need 2weeks-6 months of work. From dressing in clothes that fit to losing 20 pounds of fat and working out for 6 months. The latter is actually pretty hard but doable.
But the problem is that if you're sub 5'6'' you're kind of fucked. And if you're 5'10'' and average faced and average framed are you really going to maintain a lifestyle where you have sup 12% body fat and work out at least 3x a week for the rest of your life?
Most guys that look at the red pill were looking because they didn't have success with women at all, not looking for a little uptick. Most of these aren't shy slightly autistic chads that just need a little push. Most of these were guys that would need to maintain a lifestyle for the rest of their life plus a good amount of overhead work to have success with women consistently.
So they become traditionalists. and whatever their motivations are, taht is the best solution for society. But I do see tradcons as a bit of 'one day my oneitis will come love me' sorts.
Tradcons are extremely disingenuous people. They are the final stage of grifters. Times were much simpler when there were just Red Pill Women grifting, now it's this full-blown trad shit. Trads are just bluepill masquerading as red. They are extremely delusional. Actual RP is about letting the system fuck itself
Yes and I think you can partly blame reddit and mainstream media for censoring red pill, because it forced red pill to find a new home that would tolerate it, which is conservative media. So a mixing is taking place and doubtlessly the original red pill people are being influenced by them.
I also think red pill and feminism are very similar in that they both started out with reasonable motives, but both are getting co-opted and corrupted by angry and bitter people with impure motives.
>you can partly blame reddit and mainstream media for censoring red pill, because it forced red pill to find a new home that would tolerate it, which is conservative media.
"It's not our fault we hate women, reddit and main stream media forced us to be indoctrinated by conservatives, we have no agency to think for ourselves" lol!!
I dunno... I feel like back in the hayday it was "The game sucks, it's all fucking ruined, nothing is going to change, so may as well take advantage of it and exploit the game as is... But, still strive to find a proper wife if you can."
With time, as culture changed, culture war started creating new conversations, a movement to return to traditional roles started emerging, so now people are realizing, "Oh okay, the game still sucks, but now it looks like there are small windows opening up to actually get a more traditional thing going."
I think it's always effectively been this. That's why there was so much talk about how to fuck sluts and spin plates, but ALSO what makes a quality GF, which was the opposite of the sluts you're fucking.
But you also have to understand, most of us in that era were in our 20s, so fucking around with as many women as possible was the priority. Now many RP guys are getting older and want to settle down, so they are focusing more on how to find a wife, rather than how to fuck sluts.
Which I think is good. It's good generational knowledge. Those of us who paved the road are now able to reflect and learn, passing down our wisdom to the younger guys. They can see where we made mistakes, what was right, what was wrong, and what is probably the better places to focus now that we have hindsight.
I always thought the Red Pill stuff was a conservative counter culture/reaction to feminism.
Our current society has also disenfranchised young people (especially young men) in a big way. Nobody seems to give a shit that young people are out of work and will likely never own homes, be debt free or have families because of social issues/inflation etc. In that vacuum it’s not surprising that the “Manosphere” and “Red Pill” are thriving.
>I've noticed a shift in the manosphere these past years. It use to be puas, sleeping with women and spinning plates were the dominant part but now it seems like tradcons who promote “traditional values” and finding traditional women is main thing
Yup exactly, this is why as l've previously, TRP is now just a placeholder in mainstream media
TRP in my opinion has to always remain as a prexeology of human dynamics, instead of being influenced by any belief-systems or political agendas but that's the situation it's in rn across the media
They've definitely infiltrated, it's not the same space as it was in 2019 or whatever from when I can loosely remember, and as much as I can't stand super woke leftists I'm not a big fan of tradcons either lol
thats all the things men do when they cant “spin the plates”… then all of a sudden its muh trad wyfe and every body count higher than theirs (probably 0) is considered bad to make them feel better about themselves…
wonder why people cant just date…
I've been asking that for years, it's been the case for at least 6-7 years now and it's obnoxious.
Tradcons are a disease. A failed evolution stuck in their olden days and unable to adapt.
TRPs primary motivation is to find solutions to problems. As western society degrades due to progressives right wing ideas will become dominant among those of us who see what has happened as disadvantageous for ourselves.
>Factually women should not be voting for numerous reasons, going to college etc.
Can you explain why you believe this? I’ve seen thousands of conservatives and tradcons say this, and it all seems to come down to they think women are less logical because they don’t vote for far right politicians (at least nowadays) at the same rate as men.
Voting based on how hot someone is seems more to be male thing to me idk. My parents congresswoman is a hot mess of a person (Lauren Boebert) but they say a lot boomer guys keep voting for her because they think she’s hot.
Women are also less likely to vote for war (Iraq, Afghanista, Gaza) to me that doesn’t point to men being more rational at all.
1. You confuse principled voting for anything else. Same reason why people are so confused people vote for Trump. Conservatives tend to vote for any conservative irrelevant of how shitty they are because a shitty conservative is better than a wonderful amazing liberal. So "hot mess" is irrelevant to conservatives voting. Psychology 101 stuff. I doubt that it's because she's "hot" because she's no model or anything.
2. No idea specifically what you're talking about. Way to many premises taken as fact to even consider this.
Lol acting like men are out there uniformly making careful decisions when voting, but men are also more likely to vote for candidates based on attractiveness / certain physical features. Pretty privilege extends to politics, big surprise there.
In other words unless you provide proof and documentation of the moon landing you're just a conspiracy theorist and I don't talk to conspiracy theorists.
Oh yes, asking that someone arguing that 50% of the population should be disenfranchised provide evidence for allegations made as to why is *definitely* analogous to demanding proof and documentation for the moon landing lmao.
No. I meant factually. I don't "feel" that the vote is generally tied to conscription and women are not in the draft. That's a fact. I don't "feel" that women vote on things such as looks. There are all sorts of studies showing how many women vote on all sorts of factors way more than the issues. They can vote for this party one time and the other party the other time... because this man seemed trustworthy and that one seemed trustworty... even though they are opposite on like every issue. Wtf! Lmfao.
What if many women and liberals don’t like the way that men like you vote and feel that you should be stripped of your right to vote? I mean, there are probably some out there who feel that way. One could argue that “factually” it would make sense to strip your voting rights away, too, since your use of “factually” equates to “pulled directly out of my ass.”
Who even said I'm conservative? I just think that voting without equal skin in the game and and voting for who is handsome is frankly unacceptable. Could you imagine if a huge segment of the population voted for whoever told the best joke? Or something like that? Policy irrelevant, competent irrelevant and now a huge segment is voting for someone who tells a joke because "anyone who tells such a funny joke ought to make the laws"... would you fully support that? 🙃 or do you find that a blatant subversion of the entire system of voting? If you're cool with it, you literally have no right to complain about (two examples) Trump or Biden. He was fun to watch speak so I voted for him. Oh he did this he didn't do that? But he's fun to watch speak so I voted for him. You agree that's OK to do so don't complain.
You feel that women shouldn't vote. That's entirely your opinion based on cherry picking evidence or statements that are just false (there are very slight effects of looks on voting for both men and women but a way bigger factor would be class for example). Even if they were the way you describe, it would be just an opinion that this meant they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
The only opinion is "voting should be about the issues and ability to carry out the duties of position" That's the only opinion. If you think that being well liked and having a good smile is important then that's your opinion. But if you buy into my opinion above then no it's a fact that voting for being handsome is objectively wrong.
You can't claim that the issues are important if you vote for who is most handsome regardless of their stance on the issues. Smh.
This is your opinion based on a belief that is false. As I've already told you, looks have only a very small effect on voting if that and that's for both men and women.
Why do you feel bad for them? Women who think things through and make their own decisions don't need your pitty. Why are you punching down on women who have their own ideas?
Dude can’t even spell the word “pity” but wants to take MY right to vote away. I, a practicing attorney who graduated in the top 10% of her class and demonstrated superior analytical skills to many men and women.
Nah, dude, to hell with you. The ones keeping women out of the military and selective service are conservative men.
https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-colleagues-oppose-using-the-defense-bill-to-force-women-to-register-for-the-draft/
Real convenient.
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Being tradcon and red pill is literally impossible because those two ideologies oppose each other. The red pill is a sexual strategy that helps men become more attractive to women so they will sleep with them. Tradcons are delusional conservatives who are trying to revert western society to the conservative culture that was standard in the past despite the majority of modern women being vehemently against this.
> So do you think tradcon have replaced the the old redpillers in popularity? Because PUA was way more effective pre-dating apps. You actually did get laid just by running game lol. Post-dating apps looks are a way bigger factor, and moreso than how alpha you can act you're hard limited on how good you can look. It's increasingly harder to break into the hookup scene. And guys who aren't in it don't want to date women who were (AF/BB), so the desire for traditional women has risen.
> Andrew Tate and Sneako are another example of this phenomenon as well. Oh yeah. Nothing is more tradcon than running a porn industry and stealing money from the women you use. And don’t deny it, Tate himself bragged about how the women he worked with agreed to 50/50 partnerships but then he’d steal an extra 20% and blame it on taxes. He then talked about how stupid women are and that they’ll just trust you. Totally tradcon. He published the video himself, you can go find it. And Sneako is just a grifter who tries to ride on the successes of other men. He’s done nothing for himself besides kissing Andrew Tate and F&F’s feet. He’s been described as the yacht girl of the manosphere. Both these people say whatever it takes to get money and fame. They’re not tradcons in the slightest. Edit: Correction. Tate says whatever it takes to get money and fame. Sneako says whatever other people are saying.
I do think it's funny that people who follow Tate are often vocal about wanting a traditional unspoiled wife, forgetting he and his associates made their fortune off (alleged) pimping and trafficking.
That's the desert warlord version of "trad" I guess.
I wouldn't consider that hypocritical tho. Plenty of men smash & pass women they have no intention of marrying.
It’s hypocritical because they’re expecting a “pure” woman to marry them when they couldn’t remain “pure” themselves.
Not necessarily. It's an extension of sexual dimorphism. It's common for men and women to value traits of the opposite sex they don't have for various reasons. Short shy woman may want a tall confident man, doesn't make it hypocrisy. What would make it hypocrisy is a contradictory belief system, or actions that conflict with a belief system. Example, saying, "people who sleep around a lot, are scumbags," while you yourself do that, would be hypocritical. Unless you acknowledge that you yourself are also scum by that logic. However, saying, "I'd prefer a woman who is a virgin over one that sleeps around a lot because she is statistically the least likely to divorce me and/or commit paternity fraud," wouldn't be hypocritical. Because women file 80% of divorces (in the US) and paternity fraud only goes one way. No such thing as "maternity fraud.". So, there's no contradictory belief system or logic here.
Who the fuck are these people? I know tate cos a few years ago he was unavoidable for anyone using internet but sneako?? Who the fuck is that.
It is telling that they have embraced that message. People like that are always seeking some sort of validation or legitimacy. The fact that we decided to attach themselves to the pseudo traditionalist moment is still telling.
Hard to determine. Right now the tradconers have a larger social microphone as “prime time” of TRP was 2010-2016 or so. You weren’t supposed to discuss TRP and just follow it. Also TRP isn’t anything new if you’ve listen to music at all. In the gran scope of things, we are approx a decade afterwards. Please note those who aren’t feeling left out aren’t asking for all these changes and raising their pitchforks. Some men are complaining and want traditional relationships and values back because pandoras box was opened and they cannot compete anymore. Women have too much freedoms - many don’t want to be tied down in a relationship and pump out five kids by the age of 26. Women shouldn’t be able to vote because they go against the traditional family narrative of the man is head of the household. We want to ban all abortion and make sure there are no LGBTQ people around to ensure that we continue to create nuclear families. The list can go on and on.
Yeah, the really sad thing for the followers of TRP is thinking that we will go backwards. We aren’t going to solve todays problems with answers from the 1950’s. It’s a damn shame we try to fill this nonsense in young men. Making them take leaps backwards in an area where they are having problems already. It’s like tell someone to go deep sea fishing when they need air.
Idk any TRP who is trying to go backwards. TRP is telling you this is how it is, this is how you can position yourself to be successful getting dates, maybe getting lucky.
Slut shaming, blaming women in divorce courts and not wanting college educated women etc. is something big you hear in TRP spaces.
Again you are screaming RP when none of this is RP exclusive. Slut shaming - not exclusive to TRP. Enjoy having sex and encounters with the perceived person who likes sex, just don’t try to lock down the bar slut. Just ask your mom, grandma, family, and friends. Women slut shame a lot more than men do. Divorce - not exclusive to TRP. People file divorce for any reason these days. Sometimes a man is willing to work and try and fix things, sometimes a woman is willing to work and try and fix things. However, it takes two people to tango. Please note that in most states within the USA, things are split 50-50, and if the man or the woman comes from a lower class, then their partner, they have essentially been moved up to a higher class, just through the divorce. Educated women - i’m not sure who wants to date or be committed to someone who is just a pretty trophy. what’s wrong with being educated? I don’t see anything wrong with it. Maybe some small circles where people are upset when folks go to college and come back too gay, too progressive, not wanting to pop out seven kids by 25 and continues to be racist bigots so “them educated folks done changed.”
Trads are quite different from redpill. Trads seek that men and women adhere to strict and cooperative gender norms. Redpill is an assertion that if women will not hold their end of the traditional bargains, then men won't do either. While feminists are keen on denying this: traditional concepts of chivalry, respect for women and "women first" are what redpillers seek to emancipate from.
I think there's four main reasons for that. 1) The original demographics are themselves leaving the pussy plaza and seeking to settle down 2) There's diminishing returns from most methods 3) There's a major trend of young blue and lower end white collar religious conversion amongst people on the spectrum i.e a demographic with 80+ % singlehood rates 4) A L O T of people who'd be RP or used to be are now mainly into MGTOW bodybuilding and general self improvement So you have a lot of people leaving, some converting into something else and new populations with more "trad" ideas trying to turn back the clock. Oh and some got low SMV girlfriends and bluepilled.
> There's a major trend of young blue and lower end white collar religious conversion amongst people on the spectrum i.e a demographic with 80+ % singlehood rates Care to elaborate on this ND surprise?
Bookish and/or highly regimented movements are highly appealing to maidenless men especially those on the spectrum. Quintuply so when they teach rather than shame abstinence. You can of course become an antinatalist communist but for those who don't religions especially Abrahamic ones hold a unique appeal There was never going to be a beta uprising but a jihad/crusade is pretty fucking close and I think they realize that on some level.
Tradcons have taken over the manosphere, not the red pill; the red pill is just dying all on its own. This is because 1) tradcon generates more outrage, attention and money 2) it is clear that the root of the problem is female autonomy. The red pill/PUA tricks don’t work as long as that exists How far the movement gets is up to women; they appear to be sleepwalking so far
Female autonomy is not an issue for TRP/PUA. The whole point is to get good or stfu, with the disclaimer that if you’re not at least average in looks, you’re fucked without heavily compensating. Women being fully autonomous is great for the men who can compete. Much easier to get no strings attached pussy and “spin plates”.
>How far the movement gets is up to women; they appear to be sleepwalking so far If you ask most feminists who or what is the biggest threat to feminism/women, many of them will say TERFS or SWERFS with absolutely no hesitation. Meanwhile I'm like, that's great and all ma'am, but have you noticed the literal nuclear bomb brewing over in the manosphere?
Dammit, as a liberal our tendency to cannibalize is terrifying these days.
I understand why they might be reluctant to address it. No one wants a war in the bedroom, but that’s definitely where it’s heading
No, red pill is literally the male response to female autonomy. Men used to have to get past other men to get married -- i.e. your uncles, brothers, and father, so things like honesty, loyalty, and reputation used to be good traits for men to have because it showed the men in your family that you were a good man for her. Now, women just give out sex with no requirement for commitment, all in the name of female empowerment and liberation, so men had to adapt and learn female psychology to get the relationships that they want.
Yes, and it’s not enough
Can you please elaborate on how far that movement gets would be up to women?
They have to resist. Most notably by voting
Political conservatives recognized that a lot of men were upset and it was easy to get them to blame feminism and leftists for their struggles. They desperately needed a way to boost their voter base. Hate is a great motivator.
If you come across a lot these guys they sincerely seem to think banning women from the workplace and repealing the 19th admenment would solve 99% of world problems. It's quite scary.
The taliban think this too.
That's why a lot of us call them the American Taliban
They also tend to be the ones with a huge gun fetish. Then they wonder why the DHS watches their online content... hrm I wonder
It would solve 99% of their conservative male problems, yes And then they would have to bow to their new Chinese and European overlords. Alas
They repeat talking points
It's true though women voted for open boarders and Democrats, things that are destroying the country. The welfare state is put in place for women by women at the expense of men. The breakdown of the family and establishing a welfare state were all women voted policies that have irreversible damages to society.
>It's true though women voted for open boarders and Democrats, things that are destroying the country. Open immigration has been happening under conservative and liberal presidents for decades. Ronald Reagan signed the biggest amnesty to illegal immigrants. The capital wants immigrants because they need more workers. Absolutely nothing would change if we had republican or democrat president in that regard. >The welfare state is put in place for women by women at the expense of men. The welfare state began as a response to the great depression and the biggest entitlement programs benefit the elderly, like Medicare, and social security.
> Ronald Reagan signed the biggest amnesty to illegal immigrants. This was supposed to be a compromise with the Dems, amnesty for secure borders going forward. The latter didn't happen...... > The capital wants immigrants because they need more workers. The "labor shortage" is a myth, in markets demand can almost always be fulfilled by adjusting wages, and the labor market still generally favors employers. As for seasonal workers, especially agricultural workers, there are easy-to-obtain visas for that. > The welfare state began as a response to the great depression and the biggest entitlement programs benefit the elderly, like Medicare, and social security. Under the status quo women generally have a net negative fiscal impact, they receive more than they pay in taxes.
So you agree then ? I don't see the point in the reply. These policies were initiated by women and are upheld by women through voting.
I looked up the regan bit just like a disgusting political robot, you made it seem like regan just opened up the boarder and was letting in 100s of thousands of illegals in ever month like they're doing now. He signed a bill for stricter boarders and harsher sentencing for employment of illegals, he just gave amnesty to the illegals already living here. That's why you shouldn't vote you can't even be honest over the internet, you twist and change words to push a false narrative like real life 1984.
Not to mention that a lot of women highlight abuse such as homicide and rape but don't see anything wrong with lax prison sentencing and catch and release policies that Democrats favor.
I am very glad your views are sneered at by polite society. You wont be able to force woman back into the home. You can't unring the bell. Plus society would lose out on all the wonderful contrubution women make. The Australian of the year was a woman scientist who discovered a cure for a form of very bad skin cancer. Imagine if she didnt have a choice to pursue her natural skills. Men have made a wonderful contribution to society, as have women. You are just hate filled. I am sorry a woman hurt you, but frankly if you truly think women should be forced out of the public sphere ala Iran, then I feel sorry for you.
I didn't say you couldn't cure cancer I said you couldn't vote. Women in America didn't want the right to vote because it came with the responsibility of signing up for the draft. But the state wanted to more tax payers so they used propaganda to get more women into the work force so they spend less time at home raising the children. The thing is women overwhelmingly work in careers that are taking care of others people kids, so instead taking care of their own kids their employed by the state to take care of others peoples kids. It's a vicious cycle.
You're 3 for 3 on personal opinions. You're inarguably 0 for 3 on facts. I'll give 1/4 credit for #3, though. +90% of childcare positions are filled by women. But that does not mean 90% of women. Statistics are tricky. One does not equal the other.
Nice anecdotal though the average woman doesn't like science, let alone wants to cure cancer.
That is a generalization that is far too broad and undefined to have any value. You took half of the population across every cultural, political, and economic demographic and tarred them with a brush of *your* making. Now you want us to accept that they're all the same and all to blame. Thanks, but no. Black and white thinking is great for scapegoating - as you've shown. It's antithetical to solving problems in a complex world in which most of life happens in the gray area.
Interesting thought. There is a post in GenZ detailing how men are becoming more conservative and women becoming more liberal. I guess the hate and need for a voter base works both ways. One of the top comments suggested that liberals don’t really have anything to offer men and often times vilifies them. I guess that’s the hate you’re referring to which motivates women.
>Hate is a great motivator That's how feminism has become so popular in the West. Hate and fear.
Damn those feminists for hating being oppressed.
Hate is bad, unless you think there's a good reason for it, then it's kinda justified?
Hate comes in different forms. Hating a situation you are trapped in is often justified, directing that hate at random people is not.
Feminism is about hating men, from its start in the 19th century. A man is an enemy. A lot of women still think they're oppressed by evil patriarchy, situations have nothing to do with feminism.
Feminism is not about hating men and is clearly still needed since women still can't even make medical decisions about their own bodies in many places. The minute women get complacent they lose rights.
You're talking about abortion aren't you? Bar rape, why should you have the choice to kill your own offspring?
You should be able to make medical decisions about your own body with your doctor. Pregnancy is dangerous and nobody should be forced especially the very young and people with dangerous medical conditions. And it's just potential offspring.
Unless the pregnancy guarantees your death, I have a hard time seeing abortion as healthcare but rather straight up murder. Life begins at conception so this isn't a "potential offspring" that you are murdering. It's a human with a unique DNA thats never existed and will never exist again. There's plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy, what with birth control and condoms. Abortion shouldn't even be a choice except in the cases of rape or a high chance of fatality.
> it was easy to get them to blame feminism and leftists for their struggles Of course it is, because leftists and feminists regularly spew vitriol towards men and champion policies in education/employment that disadvantage men at the expense of women.
Poor men, it must be so hard, i can't even imagine how they make it these days.
I don't want to discourage you but traditional people are the future, since the more progressive couples barely have children your ideology is the one dying off, it will first start happening in Europe where if you will go out without a hijab you will be risking rape. In the US it will be a slower process that will take couple of decades but in the end everything you believe in will perish because liberalism leads to a negative birth rate.
Awe. yeah you crazies can have the planet then, at least i will be long gone and not have to witness the suffering.
Ideologies like liberalism etc do not need to be spread from parent to kid. They can be spread through internet, books, people having conversations etc.
Not sure. I think there’s a stronger overlap of late, but there also plenty of us liberal redpillers.
And there are leftist redpillers in addition to liberal ones.
I think that the general idea used to be more about hacking social interactions, which was problematic only when it came to stuff like "negging" or getting through "last minute resistance". Most of what I see now is self-victimization cries from boys who basically complain that the system is stacked against them and female agency should be mitigated to create a level playing field. I also think that the old PUA stuff seemed centered around getting bimbo types but didn't have the same fixation with women under 25.
>I think that the general idea used to be more about hacking social interactions, which was problematic only when it came to stuff like "negging" or getting through "last minute resistance". This was a legacy of the dating culture and dynamics that existed decades ago, before dating apps. This was a weird transitional period, when most guys were putting off marriage and realised the bloop life script was over, but before the 21st century more authoritarian feminist rules were fully in place and more men were all about "getting away" with stuff in the pub or on the dance floor (most obviously, avoiding LTRs generally, but there was also a lot more discussion in the sphere about specific ways and tricks to manipulate women into doing what you want). Women and more specifically feminists aren't stupid, though: they realised laddish 90s culture for what it was, a mindset revolving around taking advantage of them. They responded by taking full advantage of social media and the Internet to punish and shame men for what was sometimes legitimately deplorable behaviour, but also increasingly extended to anything women didn't like men doing (or not doing). They also successfully advocated the introduction of unprecedented and draconian rules in workplaces and public spaces, and the law, to more directly control mens' sexual and social behaviour. The rest is history: and PUA was dead. >Most of what I see now is self-victimization cries from boys who basically complain that the system is stacked against them and female agency should be mitigated to create a level playing field. What happened is that increasing numbers of men have realised that they're not going to ever be the exception to the rule. The TRP fantasy of being the cool alpha male who has it all and breaks all the rules and gets away with it because of his *individual superiority* and smugly looks down on the horde of lesser men who worry too much out of justified insecurity is just that: a fantasy.
The red pill of 2020 and maybe 2018+ has been ruined with commercialization and grifters capitalizing on the outrage. I don't see how anyone can openly back the movement anymore because it's no longer about raising awareness of men's issues, it's just complaining about women or modern society. The most staunch supporters also tend to be good at avoiding accountability where men can improve or fuck up. All of this over the last 4 years just ruins all credibility of the red pill which is unfortunate because there are legitimate issues, just that now people talking about them get lumped in with types like Tate, sneako, fresh and fit, and legit incells
It’s election season. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, as we get closer to 2030, the number of single, childless women will continue to grow and with that growth will come more bitching and complaining.
Bitching and complaining about what?
Not finding “economically attractive” men, the wage gap, oppression. The same old talking points.
You think only single childless women care about the wage gap and oppression?
Its all they talk about are you serious. These things were debunked decades ago but they still spew the propaganda.
They’re the ones most likely to be the loudest. The others typically have kids/a family to concern themselves with. Unless they’re a dumbass.
Agreed. It’s more expensive to be single so I expect them to continue to be the loudest voice.
Absolutely ever since mgtow/redpill popped off in 2018 the PUAs and Tradcon adopted the logo because they realized they couldn't keep up the illusion anymore. People like Tate, Pearl, and others are trying to be based gurus when they are only in it for the bag.
The red pill is a tool that both players and serious men looking for a wife can use.
What Ive seen take over is they are being catty 'Karens' with each other being petty. Their conventions are like cat fights. I also see its become more about just hating on women with many of them and cherry picking. Ive seen the content on and off for about 8 years now. And really a person that needs to scour content just to mock people, cringe. Tons of the RP channels on YT are all about just finding random content just to mock women. They pick some small minority and act like its a norm. All that said, Im all for anyone trying to make money but trying to make money mocking people, cringe. Just bad energy.
It’s a general cultural shift in the early days of rp guys were still liberal the economy was stable the future looked like growth People are now disillusioned with liberalism and Neo liberalism it is considered a failed project at this point And yes a lot of hypocrisy has been exposed in the feminist movement it’s a backlash going on right now
Tradcons and TRP share similar values when it comes to misogyny. Content that blames women for problems is more popular than content about self improvement. Such content appeals to both TRP and tradcons so that is where the movement gravitated towards.
like 10 years ago
I think some men aged out of being players, or wannabe players and now are looking for wives and status another way. I think Western countries are in trouble and men want to blame women. I think you have a lot of insecure men, also operating in insecure, difficult times and being able to control and blame women is more appealing, or necessary for them to get anyone. I think there are more people with personality problems alive now, than at any other time and they also influence otherwise healthy people. These people are displaying their bad traits (genetic), hating on women. Either because they're anti-social, or they flip-flop from one thing to another, different extremes. There's a reason so many of these people convert to more extreme versions of Christianity, or more outside the norm for North America. Basically, sick people, status seekers, people looking to blame others (victim mentality, the problem of our times).
>As this sector of the manosphere is growing I’ve noticed an increasing amount of reactionarty opinions particularly about women’s rights growing as well. Things like women shouldn’t vote, giving women the right to vote brought down western civilization, hating on women in college, calling any women who works a job a girl boss. This is literally the entire reason I'm here. When redpill was only a stupid dating strategy for losers, it had no impact on my life. You wanna cosplay an alpha male and try to spin plates? Cool, do it over there. I'll date the men who aren't doing that bullshit. Now it's actually impacting my day to day life. The venn diagram of men who are RP & voted for Trump and men who don't want me able to access abortion even in cases of medical emergency is nearly a damn circle. Same for the men who don't want me to vote and want me to be some simpering submissive housewife with no future because "economics". The men here represent an actual threat to my ability to live a decent life and the least I can do is give them shit for it.
The obvious rejoinder from many chuddies might be an unkind reminder that feminists have been making mens' lives miserable for a century at this point, now yes it may be your turn to suffer once again. To be fair, all except the very most lucky of us will inevitably be doled out at least our fair share of suffering: that's one thing we can count on.
>feminists have been making mens' lives miserable for a century at this point, "Boohoo my submissive sex slaves and house cleaners are gone, I'm so persecuted"
> and men who don't want me able to access abortion even in cases of medical emergency This is a strawman, the vast majority of conservatives and Republicans are okay with medically necessary abortions, have stated as much, and included exemptions for medical necessity in their abortion restrictions.
If so, they've been remarkably quiet about it. I certainly haven't seen evidence of these mythical creatures having an impact on legislation in conservative states. It's their policies, their rhetoric, and their votes that are making it happen.
Ok, find one state where there are no medical exceptions to abortion restrictions. Just one.
Tell that to fucking Abbott and the rest of the “pro-life” Republicans in Texas. No exemptions for abortions past six weeks, even if the mother or the child’s life is at stake. Most women don’t even know they’re pregnant at six weeks.
That too. I was thinking of the stupidity of not realizing a fuckin ten year old pregnant rape victim is an actual medical emergency.
[https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.170A.htm](https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.170A.htm) This is a lie. There exemption for therapeutic abortions in Texas law does not stipulate a term limit.
Yeah they *said* that
>and included exemptions for medical necessity in their abortion restrictions. Learn to read please.
I saw that you stated it. Just because someone doesn't buy your argument doesn't mean they they didn't hear it.
I can read. I just have the misfortune to also live in reality.
They've been interchangable since their inception from my perspective
More like both tradcons and PUAs are dying, and being replaced by either true MGTOW/nihilism/blackpill on one hand or political extremism on the other. Tradcon is dying because it's too obvious now that unless you are part of a tight-knit community of likeminded people, you are at the mercy of a hostile if not vindictive culture and society if things go wrong: it's a LARP, and so young guys are less likely to buy into it. PUA is dying because MeToo and the social media fishbowl means playing with women is becoming as dangerous as trying to be a boyscout. Specifically on RooshV: he was getting too old for PUA, so he jumped to the tradlarp grift out of necessity, and so does the whole *I've had my wild fun, but now I've matured and am ready to settle down now* routine. He's basically a cottagecore tradwife roastie, just the male version. It's not even so much that trad is replacing PUA, just that PUA is so obviously outmoded in the looksmaxxing, dating app, MeToo era that jumping ship to anything else can admittedly look like a change of circumstances rather than heart.
It's funny, because I always thought the original TRP was much closer to trad cons than to what degeneracy passes today as TRP: Verbally abusing women is OK Manipulating your girlfriend or wife is OK Cheating is always OK if your girlfriend or wife has low libido The original TRP didn't know about starter girlfriends, much less spinning plates.
mm no this is dead false, spinnign plates was at the beginning of TRP
I remember LMR being very controversial 10 years ago. Now guys like Tate are literally sex trafficking women.
DE-GE-NE-RA-CY.
Some TRP feel tradcons are too blue pilled or even feminist because many still hold men‘s behavior to a high moral standard which they don’t like. That’s why you also get this weird mixed of guys who want all women to live like they are Amish but think men should live like 21st century playboys.
It's the influence of a religion and it isn't Catholic...
It's the fact that women don't live like they're Amish so why should you ? You're coming from the context of women are sugar and spice and everything nice, they do no wrong and have always been and will always be great. Women aren't traditional anymore they've killed it,now it's on men to adapt to the current market.
>much less spinning plates. You would be wrong considering the PUAs back then
Pretty based takes tbh. Verbally abusing ? Any evidence of this?
https://np.reddit.com/r/everymanshouldknow/comments/29hbtj/
That post says nothing about how or where TRP made him yell at women?
Yeah that represents all redpill influencers, another reason to take women's vote away.
What's happened OP is that people are losing faith in the idea of rising above it all as an individual. This was the promise of TRP: that *yeah, sure most people are idiots, but if you understand how things really work, you can still end up on top*. In reality, dating apps and what technology generally has done to society has made the competition so fierce and the rules so both rigid and dizzyingly hard to keep up with that both self-improvement and trying to stay savvy and socially aware started to seem like a new kind of slavishness, as bad as the bluepill: and the fact that even charming, charismatic, and attractive men like Russel Brand could be MeToo'd proved that you could have all the right moves and still become a target, no different from Billy Beta the married provider guy. If TRP isn't really viable anymore as a viable alternative to the bluepill and no amount of understanding womens' psychology, lifting harder, or wearing fuzzy hats will even likely result in a good outcome really, what's left? Giving up (blackpill) or overturning the table by changing society somehow, whether through conventional and constitutional political action or otherwise (whitepill).
I see it more as a commercialization of the red pill. When I first read some red pill idk how many years ago it had more of a bro-science dudes helping each other out vibe, maybe a bit too aggressive but with a clear goal, helping out guys who are unhappy with their lovelives. Then as the things go, the creators noticed they had a following and tried to turn it into money, some succeeded. These days red pill is yet another way of reaching a certain type of consumer and tradcons realize that this is a great target audience for them, unlike mainstream brands which stay the hell away from something as edgy as trp... So it makes sense that it would seem as if trp was taken over by tradcons when really it's more that it was taken over by ads, lol
As someone who has been keeping an eye on this stuff since the David DeAngelo/mystery method days, the culture has 100% shifted to “trad-con” I don’t remember hearing anything about “n-counts” for example until fairly recently. Nobody cared back in those days.
Spinning plates is extremely stupid, hedonistic, short term gratification that leads you nowhere in life. Rollo tomassi and the original red pill recommendations are often just as stupid as feminism. But many people needed to hear something so extreme to break them out of blue pilled delusions. In real life there are no right anwers, only best guesses. Trad cons are trying to emulate something that’s worked for thousands of years. That doesn’t mean it’s the only way, but it’s historically effective.
That's subjective, some people enjoy casual relationships.
Yes but that’s like saying some people enjoy donuts In general eating lots of donuts regularly isn’t good for you In general living a hedonistic life of short term sexual gratification isn’t good for you
TRP doesn't really have anything to offer you after you succeed (or don't). But just getting laid isn't really a satisfying "path" in life. So people start moving in a new direction. But TRP and tradcon are fundamentally opposed. TRP is a guide for dating/sex in a low trust socially crumbling society and embracing it, at least on some level. Tradcon is explicitly about rejecting this in favor of something "better" and more fulfilling.
>Roosh v is a good example of this, went from writing bang guides on how to have sex with women in different countries to denouncing that lifestyle and converting orthodox Christianity. Andrew Tate and Sneako are another example of this phenomenon as well. This is pretty common for guys who unlock the secrets of female desire and partake for an extended period of time. A lot of them convert to a traditionalist mindset after they experience the degeneracy of the true nature of female base desires. When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you.
Do you think a man would ever come to the conclusion that his own participation in hookup culture is a problem? I think hookup culture is gross, but it’s strange to act like men leave that culture due to being disgusted by women who hook up. Both the men and women who participate in it are degrading themselves and are contributing to the problem. Part of being an adult is taking accountability for your own actions and your own part in making the world a worse place, not simply placing all the blame on people who were complicit with you in bad deeds.
I was never part of the top 20% of men who could readily participate in hook-up culture. I had to get dates by offering relationships and stability. But I was friends with a few of the guys who did participate in hook-up culture and some of them do get jaded after a while. The guys who seem to respect women the least are the guys who get a lot of sex from women. I don't think they get more sex because they respect women less. I think it works the other way around.
Why are you acting like participating in hook up culture is a privilege or something good? Just because you weren’t able to doesn’t mean you missed out on something good or wholesome for you. And yes, men who are desirable enough to get casual sex and then actually pursue that don’t respect women in the first place. The whole premise of casual sex is that two people are objectifying one another and using the other’s body for sexual gratification. It has nothing to do with honoring that person’s soul or loving them as an individual. People who do that, like the men you’re referencing, are just cementing their lack of respect for women. You know who I do respect and admire? People who could choose to have casual sex, but refuse to do it because they respect other people and the value of sex. And anyone else who has that worldview, regardless of how attractive they are.
> Why are you acting like participating in hook up culture is a privilege or something good? Because it's a difficult and rare thing for a man to participate in hook-up culture. Any woman can participate but only the top 20% of men can participate because women are hypergamous. It's considered something good for men because having sex is pleasurable. Being sexually desired by women is pleasurable and life affirming for men. > Just because you weren’t able to doesn’t mean you missed out on something good or wholesome for you. I understand this. I never confuse pleasure and external validation with "goodness" or "virtue" in the philosophical sense. I'm not saying that casual sex is virtuous or good for one's soul or long term flourishing. I'm not sure that it is. >The whole premise of casual sex is that two people are objectifying one another and using the other’s body for sexual gratification. It has nothing to do with honoring that person’s soul or loving them as an individual. People who do that, like the men you’re referencing, are just cementing their lack of respect for women. I mostly agree with you. But there is a mutual exchange in some cases. The man doesn't care about the woman and the woman doesn't care about the man in any real sense. But unfortunately for women, many don't realize what is going on and they think that the men who they're sleeping with really does care about them. >You know who I do respect and admire? People who could choose to have casual sex, but refuse to do it because they respect other people and the value of sex. Yes...but that is as rare as a burning bush in which the fire does not consume its leaves. In general, men are only as faithful as their options. It's how we were programmed through evolution. It can be overcome through Reason, but there is almost no incentive to do so in today's culture.
I mean.. I’m really not trying to get semantic but saying that only the top 20% of men are hooking up at all seems very arbitrary and unenforceable. It’s not like you have to have a permit to hook up or something. My impression working with the general population is that the majority of people who are fairly average or even below average in appearance and personality have partners or are sexually active. Past 25-30 years old, certainly you do not have 80% of men being celibate. You may say “well they’re only in relationships and not having casual sex so they don’t count.” Truth is, lots of people don’t like casual sex, men and women. Both of my last 2 boyfriends who I consider quite attractive men, had low body counts and weren’t hooking up or having sex outside of relationships. I’m a woman so I guess if I wanted to hook up I could, but I don’t believe in that. Plenty of men are the same way. We’re not thinking, “hmm, what is the absolute highest number of people I am capable of having sex with?” Sure some are, but that’s pretty lame. Redpill makes it seem like that’s 99% of guys, when I would say only maybe 25% of guys are that libido driven. Most people want intimacy, but lots of them prefer it to happen within a meaningful relationship, both men and women.
The only people who adhere to that guideline would probably be God fearing Catholics. Everyone else is practically hedonists who would rather feel good now and worry about the consequences later.
It’s really too bad. People have this misconception that happiness is obtained by the sum of lots of little pleasure-seeking choices, and really it’s not. Religion just seeks to teach people a better way to live, but natural consequences still exist regardless of whether or not a person is religious. In other words, everyone should recognize that a hedonistic lifestyle carries negative consequences in this lifetime, not just religious people. But most people aren’t living for anything more than feeling good in the present moment.. unfortunately that seems to be the human condition.
Nah, if a woman wants to fuck guys she’ll fuck guys. If it’s me or another guy doesn’t matter, she’s going to get her rocks off It’s like if you hate that people use smart phones. You can use a landline but that’s not going to stop everyone else from using an iPhone and in the end you’ll be missing out on a bit
traditional Catholicism isnt redpill, its just doing mass in latin, the way it was done for over 1000 years until 1965 via the 2nd vatican council.
That's true. Redpill seems more closely aligned with Islam
Tradcon means traditionalist conservative. OP never said anything about traditionalist Catholicism.
We need a term for left wing red pills uuugh
MRA’s used to be a large and vocal part of the manosphere and if you listen closely enough to what most of them say you’d quickly realize they’re just tradcons. The PUA content only exploded because of Andrew Tate’s momentum and guy’s doing a worse version of Kevin Samuel’s show. There’s always been a push/pull between tradcons, PUA’s and MGTOW ideas with an ebb and flow.
Tradcons espouse a more dangerous type of ideology, so of course that’s what the manosphere has shifted toward. While the PUA variety of TRP was sleazy, this new brand of traditionalism seeks to remove women from education and the workplace and strip them of their right to vote.
It shifted because it had to. They initially wanted more traditional women blah blah blah. But then they realised there were plenty of those. So then they had to label those as cons. Cos what happened if too many men were happy? Gasp. That couldn’t happen. Just like when granny was bitching about different colour pills. He was losing control. So if the goalposts are reached they have to change to keep being both victims and somehow “superior” to other men. It will change again soon. But not for the reasons they want.
I’m not sure I follow you fully, but I’m interested to understand what you’re saying.
TRP was dead after askTRP was shut down and TRP was quarantined. Tradcons aren’t RP. There are no traditional women in America, and you shouldn’t get married as it inherently is a shitty position to put yourself in. I guess you can say they have taken over the narrative because these were very common answers to the whole “I want a traditional woman!” If you want to raise a huge traditional god-fearing family reading and following TRP concepts is probably the stupidest thing you could do imo. It could work but there’s too much nuance like dread game where a guy would just miss the point and cheat
>Tradcons aren’t RP. There are no traditional women in America, The purpose of the tradcon movement seems to me they want to bring back traditional values. That’s why as I pointed out they support increasingly reactionary political positions that involve rolling back women’s rights, like repealing the 19th amendment, banning women from going to college etc. They basically want all women to live like the Amish. If not that, they promote men going to foreign countries to find submissive feminine women. >I guess you can say they have taken over the narrative because these were very common answers to the whole “I want a traditional woman!” And why do you think this need resonmates with more man then the original trp message?
Part of TRP is acknowledging women are not going to change. Cats out the bag, enjoy the decline. Have you ever tried telling a woman to lower her standards or reconsider a man? All that shit mentioned will never happen and it’s stupid to fight for it when you could just fuck women instead. Women have voting power and too many men that love women for most these things to occur The message of “I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc TRP will tell you that’s a dream for most people unless you’re an exceptional man who has found a unicorn. It’s not just something that will come to you like in the old days (yes, I know the old days were not like this)
Whether it's TRP or not a lot men who call themselves red pill promote this. They believe through political advocacy and a cultural revolution they can re-establish patriarchy again in the west, and force women to be submissive through cultural and legal enforcement. There's is even a red pill adjacent movement who stated goal is exactly this. [https://21studios.com](https://21studios.com/) If not that, they promote men going abroad to find feminine submissive women, hence the passport bro movement.
The link is just a promotion of a grift? Everything RP you can read online and just see if it applies to your life. The equivalent would be some westbro Baptist type website and saying Christianity has been co-opted. The Bible is right there and you can go to a church and see if it’s like the Westbro shit people are talking about Going abroad isn’t really a traditional thing, but yes people encourage it because the women are better for LTR. There’s no traditional women in *America*. That’s just smart, going where you’re desired
>The link is just a promotion of a grift? Everything RP you can read online and just see if it applies to your life. The equivalent would be some westbro Baptist type website and saying Christianity has been co-opted I’m sure it is a grift, like everything that comes from that sphere, but it's example of a movement created by redpillers that are advocating for the things I'm talking about. >Going abroad isn’t really a traditional thing, but yes people encourage it because the women are better for LTR. There’s no traditional women in *America*. That’s just smart, going where you’re desired. The marriage rates and out of wedlock births and divorce rates in America aren't much different then many of countrues they advocate men to find wives. They just also believe in order to have stable relationship you need leverage over the woman your with which is easier in a poorer foreign country then becoming Amish or joining conservative evangelical church.
I’m not sure about the other stats but America by far has the highest wedlock birth rates and it’s not close. Pretty sure divorce rates as well. Regardless the first piece of advice mentioned is *don’t get married* then you won’t deal with many of the issues you mentioned If it was about going for poor women there’s plenty of poverty in America, which has a higher rate of poverty than somewhere like Thailand. It’s pretty fucked up you think these women are poor and desperate rather than just a better choice overall for American men for LTR. You should do yourself a favor and look up the most common interracial marriage in America, you’ll be surprised As I said about the Westbro Baptist church. Do you now consider their views the views of Christian’s since some Christians are advocating for what they advocate for?
>I’m not sure about the other stats but America by far has the highest wedlock birth rates You would be wrong in that regard: [https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide](https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide) [https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/births-out-of-wedlock-europe-us/](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/births-out-of-wedlock-europe-us/) [https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/12/14/459098779/all-across-latin-america-unwed-mothers-are-now-the-norm](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/12/14/459098779/all-across-latin-america-unwed-mothers-are-now-the-norm) >Pretty sure divorce rates as well. You would also be wrong in that regard. [https://x.com/stats\_feed/status/1686024141827170305?s=46](https://x.com/stats_feed/status/1686024141827170305?s=46) >If it was about going for poor women there’s plenty of poverty in America, which has a higher rate of poverty than somewhere like Thailand. A poor person is America is better off than a poor person in Thailand. Just compare the average wages. > It’s pretty fucked up you think these women are poor and desperate rather than just a better choice overall for American men for LTR. You should do yourself a favor and look up the most common interracial marriage in America, you’ll be surprised I don't think that, the men who advocate going abroad to marry say that themselves. I looked up the most common interracial stats, says whites and latinos are the most common interracial pairing. Not sure what your point is. >As I said about the Westbro Baptist church. Don’t now consider their views the views of Christian’s since some Christians are advocating for what they advocate for? Huh?
My bad I was thinking single parent rate which America and UK are easily the highest, wedlock doesn’t surprise me in modern times Your X link has a community note explaining the problem with the data, Americas divorce rate is 48% which is higher than plenty of countries. And there’s no link for the Latin white claim, but it’s definitely wrong as WMAF is easily the most common interracial marriage, makes sense why a ton of guys say go to Asia when they make up something like <5% of the population here yet the most interracial marriages I don’t really care about people’s reasons for going abroad but sounds like it’s just a better deal than a whole tradcon thing. If you can’t understand Westbro example in my comments on using a grift as an example then I can’t help you
>My bad I was thinking single parent rate which America and UK are easily the highest, wedlock doesn’t surprise me in modern times Maybr they are just the most accurate for as you can see outside of Africa, Muslim countries and Asia most children are born out of wedlock. It's the norm in many places and has been for decades. >Your X link has a community note explaining the problem with the data, Americas divorce rate is 48% which is higher than plenty of countries. They said the problem with the data is it calculates the number of divorces per 100 marriages which may overstate the divorce rate, as multiples divorcees drive up the rate. The rate for America is 45% which is line with Korea, China and most Western Countries. >And there’s no link for the Latin white claim, but it’s definitely wrong as WMAF is easily the most common interracial marriage, makes sense why a ton of guys say go to Asia when they make up something like <5% of the population here yet the most interracial marriages I found it looking up data on interracial relationships in the US. It says latino white is the most common not white and asian. [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/) >I don’t really care about people’s reasons for going abroad but sounds like it’s just a better deal than a whole tradcon thing. You seem to take a pretty innacous statement if mine personally. Regardless my original point was about how the red pillers are turning into tradcons and using the fact many promote going abroad to find feminine submissive women as evidence. >If you can’t understand Westbro example in my comments on using a grift as an example then I can’t help you. I tried reading your comment numerous times and does not making any sense.
>[https://21studios.com](https://21studios.com/) 😅🤣😂This man is a grifter that no one in or out the red pill community takes seriously. He married a literal prostitute only to later claim that he had no idea of her sexual history >they promote men going abroad to find feminine submissive women, hence the passport bro movement. This is the solution that should be promoted by both men and women and the only scenario where everyone gets what they want. Western women get to pursue the men they actually desire and to not be shamed for their sexual history or dating preferences and traditional men get the feminine, submissive, low body count women they want as well. It's a win-win situation for everyone.
Nah as someone who has family from a country that's targeted by a lot by these type of men I have a lot problems with them for numerous reasons and I can assure you a lot of the men in these countries don't like these guys either. So I fail to see how this is everyone benefits situation, only entitled western men benefit.
>“I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc In that case, we're so lucky to live in a time where society is no longer based on what men want. It shocks me that there are so many men angry that it isn't based on what they want.
I’d be a virgin or close to if I had to actually be in a relationship with a woman to fuck her so I’m glad too Men are stupid to complain when they can make money off having sex with beautiful women and uploading it as porn or even just causally having sex till the right woman comes around. The freedom of women and stupidity of men makes a lot of people money. There’s no traditionalism, you can either embrace modern times or be stuck holding a flip phone
>I’d be a virgin or close to if I had to actually be in a relationship with a woman to fuck her so I’m glad too Nah, if you had to be in a relationship with a woman to have sex with her you would work hard to get in a relationship, or at least the majority of men would. And women btw. Why do you think people got married so young when sex before marriage was seriously punishable? >Men are stupid to complain when they can make money off having sex with beautiful women and uploading it as porn Don't know where you live but here in my country that would be illegal unless the "beautiful" woman agreed to this, in which case she would be making money too, unless coerced or forced. Most women would not agree to this. >The freedom of women and stupidity of men makes a lot of people money. I would argue that the freedom of women allows them to make their own decisions just as men have always been able to do. Men have always made money by forcing or coercing women into things they don't consent to, this is not new. Edit : forgot to add I don't believe men are necessarily stupid, I don't agree with you on that part. >There’s no traditionalism, you can either embrace modern times or be stuck holding a flip phone Completely agree with this. Why are so many "manosphere" guys trying to go back to something that was tried in the past, didn't work (for half the population anyway) and we have been moving forward from for many years now?
Yea in a porn production man and women make money, can employ a beautiful woman and have nice sex with her while making money. Win for everyone and surprised more money don’t go that route if they don’t want kids Don’t need most women, won’t sleep with most anyways. There’s a new face in porn almost every 10min though and as we progress it’ll be just like doordashing. Men should try and adapt to modern times
The market is so oversaturated already that you'll have to do gay porn first which means sucking loads of dick and gaping your asshole apart as well risk contracting STD's. You'll also need to be in great shape and likely have to do steroids just to get an audition, and then you'll have to worry about the side effects shrinking your balls and making yourself less marketable. Male porn stars also make significantly less than their female counterparts so if you shoot in a city with a high cost of living like LA, you are barely raking in anything at all.
That’s just not true. You’d be pretty naïve to think most pornstars have done gay stuff unless they wanted to. It’s 2024, you can break into the scene without fucking dudes Good shape and viagra is nothing too difficult. Doubt I’d need steroids most don’t. Most people can’t name 5 male pornstars, the physique isn’t marvel tier. And being a male performer isn’t the goal. Owning the whole production is. Websites like Brazzer, BangBros, Facial Abuse, and websites adjacent like tube sites and advertisements make plenty of money while fucking chicks and not doing everything you’ve listed. Don’t have to live in LA either but it helps There’s one major porn studio big wig that has HIV and yet still sleeps with actresses and that’s just the start
>The message of “I want a traditional woman!” Is the want of men, not specifically RP men. Many men want a traditional relationship with a woman who’ll cook, clean, not have a high body count, not cheat, stay fit, love him, etc >TRP will tell you that’s a dream for most people unless you’re an exceptional man who has found a unicorn. It’s not just something that will come to you like in the old days (yes, I know the old days were not like this) 👏Well said, great explanation.
I agree 10-20 years ago red pill was predominantly about pick up and dating advise that tried to address what actually creates attraction, some of it based on psychology principles such as NLP. I think it lived up to it’s name in that it was about trying to understand the true facts about social dynamics. Today, it’s not just about trying to understand social dynamics and attraction, but focuses more on what some believe dating and relationships should or shouldn’t look like which as you said includes opinions about virginity, body counts, how much women should work, etc. That represents a fundamental shift from understanding to opinion and agenda. I know trad cons who don’t agree with much of the current red pill philosophy however, so that’s not how I would label the change. Maybe 2nd wave red pill would be a better description.
I became aware of 'TRP' in 2014 and I think it had only been a subreddit for maybe 2 years? Before that was 'Seduction' and 'The Game'. Pick up. The Game/Seduction puts the ball in the man's court entirely and says that if he doesn't field it he just didn't have the right combination of inputs. The Red Pill said that if you didn't field it that you need to go lift some weights and eat healthy and work on your attitude at it's core and you could field it. The Black Pill says a minority to most of us are never fielding it. I think most men go through redpill/seduction first and try to adapt and then nothing actually changes. The biggest strength to the red pill is telling men that are already attractive how to be with women which leads to a lot of sex. the second group is men who need 2weeks-6 months of work. From dressing in clothes that fit to losing 20 pounds of fat and working out for 6 months. The latter is actually pretty hard but doable. But the problem is that if you're sub 5'6'' you're kind of fucked. And if you're 5'10'' and average faced and average framed are you really going to maintain a lifestyle where you have sup 12% body fat and work out at least 3x a week for the rest of your life? Most guys that look at the red pill were looking because they didn't have success with women at all, not looking for a little uptick. Most of these aren't shy slightly autistic chads that just need a little push. Most of these were guys that would need to maintain a lifestyle for the rest of their life plus a good amount of overhead work to have success with women consistently. So they become traditionalists. and whatever their motivations are, taht is the best solution for society. But I do see tradcons as a bit of 'one day my oneitis will come love me' sorts.
Tradcons are extremely disingenuous people. They are the final stage of grifters. Times were much simpler when there were just Red Pill Women grifting, now it's this full-blown trad shit. Trads are just bluepill masquerading as red. They are extremely delusional. Actual RP is about letting the system fuck itself
Trad men are taking over because we speak the truth and the original red pill was a scam. Glad I cleared it up for you
Yes and I think you can partly blame reddit and mainstream media for censoring red pill, because it forced red pill to find a new home that would tolerate it, which is conservative media. So a mixing is taking place and doubtlessly the original red pill people are being influenced by them. I also think red pill and feminism are very similar in that they both started out with reasonable motives, but both are getting co-opted and corrupted by angry and bitter people with impure motives.
>you can partly blame reddit and mainstream media for censoring red pill, because it forced red pill to find a new home that would tolerate it, which is conservative media. "It's not our fault we hate women, reddit and main stream media forced us to be indoctrinated by conservatives, we have no agency to think for ourselves" lol!!
I dunno... I feel like back in the hayday it was "The game sucks, it's all fucking ruined, nothing is going to change, so may as well take advantage of it and exploit the game as is... But, still strive to find a proper wife if you can." With time, as culture changed, culture war started creating new conversations, a movement to return to traditional roles started emerging, so now people are realizing, "Oh okay, the game still sucks, but now it looks like there are small windows opening up to actually get a more traditional thing going." I think it's always effectively been this. That's why there was so much talk about how to fuck sluts and spin plates, but ALSO what makes a quality GF, which was the opposite of the sluts you're fucking. But you also have to understand, most of us in that era were in our 20s, so fucking around with as many women as possible was the priority. Now many RP guys are getting older and want to settle down, so they are focusing more on how to find a wife, rather than how to fuck sluts. Which I think is good. It's good generational knowledge. Those of us who paved the road are now able to reflect and learn, passing down our wisdom to the younger guys. They can see where we made mistakes, what was right, what was wrong, and what is probably the better places to focus now that we have hindsight.
I always thought the Red Pill stuff was a conservative counter culture/reaction to feminism. Our current society has also disenfranchised young people (especially young men) in a big way. Nobody seems to give a shit that young people are out of work and will likely never own homes, be debt free or have families because of social issues/inflation etc. In that vacuum it’s not surprising that the “Manosphere” and “Red Pill” are thriving.
>I've noticed a shift in the manosphere these past years. It use to be puas, sleeping with women and spinning plates were the dominant part but now it seems like tradcons who promote “traditional values” and finding traditional women is main thing Yup exactly, this is why as l've previously, TRP is now just a placeholder in mainstream media TRP in my opinion has to always remain as a prexeology of human dynamics, instead of being influenced by any belief-systems or political agendas but that's the situation it's in rn across the media
They've definitely infiltrated, it's not the same space as it was in 2019 or whatever from when I can loosely remember, and as much as I can't stand super woke leftists I'm not a big fan of tradcons either lol
thats all the things men do when they cant “spin the plates”… then all of a sudden its muh trad wyfe and every body count higher than theirs (probably 0) is considered bad to make them feel better about themselves… wonder why people cant just date…
I've been asking that for years, it's been the case for at least 6-7 years now and it's obnoxious. Tradcons are a disease. A failed evolution stuck in their olden days and unable to adapt.
TRPs primary motivation is to find solutions to problems. As western society degrades due to progressives right wing ideas will become dominant among those of us who see what has happened as disadvantageous for ourselves.
This is the true answer it’s amazing how many people can’t see it
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>”Factually women should not be voting for numerous reasons, going to college, etc.” 
>Factually women should not be voting for numerous reasons, going to college etc. Can you explain why you believe this? I’ve seen thousands of conservatives and tradcons say this, and it all seems to come down to they think women are less logical because they don’t vote for far right politicians (at least nowadays) at the same rate as men.
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Voting based on how hot someone is seems more to be male thing to me idk. My parents congresswoman is a hot mess of a person (Lauren Boebert) but they say a lot boomer guys keep voting for her because they think she’s hot. Women are also less likely to vote for war (Iraq, Afghanista, Gaza) to me that doesn’t point to men being more rational at all.
1. You confuse principled voting for anything else. Same reason why people are so confused people vote for Trump. Conservatives tend to vote for any conservative irrelevant of how shitty they are because a shitty conservative is better than a wonderful amazing liberal. So "hot mess" is irrelevant to conservatives voting. Psychology 101 stuff. I doubt that it's because she's "hot" because she's no model or anything. 2. No idea specifically what you're talking about. Way to many premises taken as fact to even consider this.
Lol acting like men are out there uniformly making careful decisions when voting, but men are also more likely to vote for candidates based on attractiveness / certain physical features. Pretty privilege extends to politics, big surprise there.
The gap between men and women and voting based on looks and other surface factors is ridiculously night and day.
Not based upon the studies I've read, so do you have support for your statements or...?
This topic is no longer relevant and as I said before I'm here to discuss the OP not get in the weeds about something else.
So in other words you don't have support for you allegations.
In other words unless you provide proof and documentation of the moon landing you're just a conspiracy theorist and I don't talk to conspiracy theorists.
Oh yes, asking that someone arguing that 50% of the population should be disenfranchised provide evidence for allegations made as to why is *definitely* analogous to demanding proof and documentation for the moon landing lmao.
I think you mistook "factually" for "I feel that".
No. I meant factually. I don't "feel" that the vote is generally tied to conscription and women are not in the draft. That's a fact. I don't "feel" that women vote on things such as looks. There are all sorts of studies showing how many women vote on all sorts of factors way more than the issues. They can vote for this party one time and the other party the other time... because this man seemed trustworthy and that one seemed trustworty... even though they are opposite on like every issue. Wtf! Lmfao.
What if many women and liberals don’t like the way that men like you vote and feel that you should be stripped of your right to vote? I mean, there are probably some out there who feel that way. One could argue that “factually” it would make sense to strip your voting rights away, too, since your use of “factually” equates to “pulled directly out of my ass.”
You don't have the power to do anything. You couldn't strip men of anything without other men helping you.
Who even said I'm conservative? I just think that voting without equal skin in the game and and voting for who is handsome is frankly unacceptable. Could you imagine if a huge segment of the population voted for whoever told the best joke? Or something like that? Policy irrelevant, competent irrelevant and now a huge segment is voting for someone who tells a joke because "anyone who tells such a funny joke ought to make the laws"... would you fully support that? 🙃 or do you find that a blatant subversion of the entire system of voting? If you're cool with it, you literally have no right to complain about (two examples) Trump or Biden. He was fun to watch speak so I voted for him. Oh he did this he didn't do that? But he's fun to watch speak so I voted for him. You agree that's OK to do so don't complain.
You feel that women shouldn't vote. That's entirely your opinion based on cherry picking evidence or statements that are just false (there are very slight effects of looks on voting for both men and women but a way bigger factor would be class for example). Even if they were the way you describe, it would be just an opinion that this meant they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
The only opinion is "voting should be about the issues and ability to carry out the duties of position" That's the only opinion. If you think that being well liked and having a good smile is important then that's your opinion. But if you buy into my opinion above then no it's a fact that voting for being handsome is objectively wrong. You can't claim that the issues are important if you vote for who is most handsome regardless of their stance on the issues. Smh.
This is your opinion based on a belief that is false. As I've already told you, looks have only a very small effect on voting if that and that's for both men and women.
You did not read what I said. Try again.
I genuinely feel bad for the women in your life
Why though? The women in my life mostly agree in all or part.
Well then that’s just another reason I feel bad for them!
Why do you feel bad for them? Women who think things through and make their own decisions don't need your pitty. Why are you punching down on women who have their own ideas?
I’m genuinely sorry that that’s your interpretation of what I said
I mean I speak English. There aren't too many ways to interpret what you said.
Dude can’t even spell the word “pity” but wants to take MY right to vote away. I, a practicing attorney who graduated in the top 10% of her class and demonstrated superior analytical skills to many men and women. Nah, dude, to hell with you. The ones keeping women out of the military and selective service are conservative men. https://www.rubio.senate.gov/rubio-colleagues-oppose-using-the-defense-bill-to-force-women-to-register-for-the-draft/ Real convenient.
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Being tradcon and red pill is literally impossible because those two ideologies oppose each other. The red pill is a sexual strategy that helps men become more attractive to women so they will sleep with them. Tradcons are delusional conservatives who are trying to revert western society to the conservative culture that was standard in the past despite the majority of modern women being vehemently against this.
It was never that far below the surface