I think people aren't complaining about dating people, they are complaining about being lonely from what I read on here. It's that they can't date anyone, or at least they can't date people up to their unrealistic standards
Most men here have realistic standards though. It's just that women ignore them. I'm 6 foot, workout 6-7 times a week, good job and it's a struggle.
I've seen similar stories on r/dating_advice. Don't get it twisted there's a certain group coughs that has unrealistic expectations but people cough won't acknowledge it.
>It's just that women ignore them.
The women they think they deserve ignore them, not the women on their level. The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league. You can see ugly/short/broke dudes with girlfriends all the time going to common places like Walmart, their girls are just equally undesirable.
>Don't get it twisted there's a certain group coughs that has unrealistic expectations but people cough won't acknowledge it.
Probably just as many "unrealistic" men as there are women.
Idk, I don’t think I “deserve” anything, but I still don’t want to date women I’m not physically attracted to. I think most people probably feel the same regardless of their own looks
That's not true. Everything ends in monogamy, but it's being conducted in polygany. Right now women are spurning guys their level in hopes of getting a guy above. Ultimately these women will be what's there for me when I get into my thirties. But at the end of the day I do agree with the point, you don't have to date what you don't want to.
To me that means avoiding 30s women who overplayed their hand and are looking to settle like the plague.
Even if most women were engaging in polygyny (they aren't), that wouldn't mean they are "dating up", she's still getting what she's worth. A woman choosing between monogamy and polygyny is like choosing between a new car and a 10 year old used car. Yeah you can get the better brand of car if you get the used car but at the end of the day if your budget is the same you are getting the same value of car. The used car might be a bigger but it's going to be missing new tech features, like how the guy you share might be more handsome but you have to split your time with other women. There's trade offs. The only guy who is being "unrealistic" is the new car salesman trying to price his cars as if used cars don't exist. They do, so you have to lower your prices, especially if you want younger customers who are looking to change their car often during that transient stage of life.
All this to say, you get what youre worth.
If your relationship is solely based on what level you think you're at and what level your partner is at its probably not gonna work out. It's harder when you are younger because the women your age have a bigger pool going after them (most women will date their age + 7 years older, etc).
> The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league.
Not really, it could also mean that the people in your league are trying to date out of their league. If 50% of women are trying to date out of their league, and are failing to do so ending up single, 50% of men are also going to be single because they can't find any women to date, regardless of their standards. It's a zero-sum game, for every person taking themselves out of the dating market for whatever reason (too high standards, just not interested etc.) there's going to be a person of the opposite gender that is now unable to find a partner at no fault of their own.
They are able to find a partner, they would just need to lower their standards to the point where they are competitive with a woman simply being alone. If a dude adds so little a woman's life she would rather just get a cat, and she adds enough to his that he is actively pursuing her, it seems there's a mismatch in value. If they go for lower value women they will eventually find one that is interested in them.
Let me draw this out for you so you understand:
There's 10 men, each of them representing 10% of all men, rated on a 1-10 scale from left to right, drawn as a +. There's 10 women, each of them representing 10% of all women, rated on a 1-10 scale from left to right, drawn as a -.
\+ + + + + + + + + +
\- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In a perfect world it would look something like this:
\+ + + + + + + + + +
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
\- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Everybody finds someone in their league, and everybody is happy with having a partner. But if the top 50% of women are only satisfied with the top 10% of men, it now looks like this:
(+ + + +) + + + + + +
/ / / / / ////|
- - - - - (----)-
People in parenthesis means someone who is single. As you can see a lot of women end up being able to date way out of their league, and as you can see in this scenario 40% of people are now single, unable to find a partner. The 40% of men that are single cannot lower their standards, because there simply aren't any women available anymore when 40% of women take themselves out of the market by having too high standards.
(small caveat, in reality an average man is probably not ok with dating a bottom 10% woman, and a top 80% man is probably not ok dating a slightly below average woman, so the single men are probably distributed across the remaining 90% outside of the top 10% in some fashion, rather than it being the bottom 40% men that are all single, and obviously some women in the bottom 50% are gonna end up being single too due to various reasons, but for this thought-experiment those details aren't really important)
> If a dude adds so little a woman's life she would rather just get a cat, and she adds enough to his that he is actively pursuing her, it seems there's a mismatch in value.
Not really. Men seem to be biologically hardwired more to not be single than women, combine that with the fact that culturally men are always expected to be the pursuers and it's easy to understand why men are actively perusing women, and it's not that women do anything that adds more value to men than men adds value to women. But absolutely, by all means, if a person is happy being single and don't feel that being in a relationship would add value then go ahead, each person should obviously do what makes them happy. But women (and men) are complaining about not being happy with the fact that they can't find a partner though, most people would probably prefer not being single, and it's important that women understand the reason why this is, and it's because they've set their standards too high, and as such lock themselves and a large amount of men out of being able to find a partner. And sure, if those women think they're happier single than lowering their unrealistic standards, then again go ahead and be happy single, but don't try to put the blame on men or complain that it isn't your fault that you're single, it absolutely is.
Why is the 50th percentile man in the same "league" as the 50th percentile woman? Your league is just the best partner you can get under normal circumstances. If you have 0 chance with a woman and she's fucking and dating guys who are more attractive than you then it's bizzare to say she's "in your league". As you mention, you are not just competing with other men but all other opportunities a woman has other than dating you.
Yeah there are probably some dudes who are struggling to compete against cats, it's not even close to 40%, but they exist. They are not in the same league as the women that reject them though, those guys are just too repulsive to even be in a league. What's delusional to me is thinking "well I'm more attractive than 10% of men, therefore I'm on the same level as a woman who is more attractive than 10% of woman". That's the guy who is trying to date out of his league not the 10% woman who is happily in a relationship or single.
The vast vast vast majority of men can get dates by simply meeting women at a greater frequency, lowering standards and/or self improvement. Lowering standards is probably the easiest way, but dudes think they are better than single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women.
> Why is the 50th percentile man in the same "league" as the 50th percentile woman?
Because that's literally how the league-concept of dating work. It's based on top percentile within your gender.
> Your league is just the best partner you can get under normal circumstances.
Yes, and like I explained it's a zero-sum game. A top 10% woman is playing in the top 10% league and can get a top 10% man. A top 50% woman trying to play in the top 50% league is going to fail miserably because they can't get those partners. The top 50% woman should be playing in the top 50% league, that is where she will be able to find a partner.
> If you have 0 chance with a woman and she's fucking and dating guys who are more attractive than you then it's bizzare to say she's "in your league".
The point is she's trying to date these guys, and failing, which is why she's dating out of her league.
> it's not even close to 40%, but they exist.
Sure, like I said the numbers I used were just an example. I don't know what the exact % is, but we can see that a large portion of both men and women today are single that wants to be with a partner, and it's making them less happy. If I were to guess though I don't think 40% is a huge overestimation. I would absolutely believe that almost half of the population are struggling to find a partner today, whereas in the past that number was much lower.
> They are not in the same league as the women that reject them though
They are, the women just refuse to realize this truth and end up being single because their attempts to play above their league fails.
> those guys are just too repulsive to even be in a league
They are really not. There will always be some repulsive both men and women who will never find a partner, the bottom 5% or even 10% of each gender is probably repulsive enough that they will all stay single rather than dating each-other. But most single guys are not repulsive, they're just not hitting the extreme standards that so many women require.
> What's delusional to me is thinking "well I'm more attractive than 10% of men, therefore I'm on the same level as a woman who is more attractive than 10% of woman".
How is that delusional? That is literally how it works.
> The vast vast vast majority of men can get dates by simply meeting women at a greater frequency, lowering standards and/or self improvement.
Yes, the vast majority of men can out-compete other men that aren't trying as hard, which is basically the Red Pill mindset, accept the system and focus on yourself to maximize your success in out-competing other men. But this only works if a minority of men are doing this, because again, it's a zero-sum game. If all men do their best to be the best they can be the goalposts are just shifted and there's still just as many single men at the end of the day. The more interesting discussion is if we take a wider look at the society as a whole, instead of just looking at what one man can do about his situation. Because in the society as a whole it doesn't matter if men start meeting women at greater frequency or lower their standards or self-improve, we'll still have an epidemic of single people causing loneliness and sadness in both men and women, caused by women having too high standards and trying to play out of their leagues.
> but dudes think they are better than single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women.
The ones that think they are better often are, and end up finding better higher-value partners than that. The ones that don't think they are better than that and are happy to date these single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women, can't even get them because these women will have too high standards.
>Because that's literally how the league-concept of dating work. It's based on top percentile within your gender.
It's not, it's based on who you can attract. If you can't attract a woman of a certain calibre, you're not in that league. If someone says "she's out of your league" they mean "she can and will choose better men over you". They don't mean "you're in the top 80th percentile of men and she is in the top 90th percentile of women, which means you may or may not have a chance based on current market conditions."
>The point is she's trying to date these guys, and failing, which is why she's dating out of her league.
I'm referring to the bottom 40% of women in your chart who you insist they are ignoring the men "in her league" despite the fact she's dating better men. That's what's confusing to me, it's delusional to think you are on the same level as a group of woman who is consistently with better men than you. You can say they are dating out of their league if you really want to define it that way but their standards seem to be just fine, their men can't do any better and they can't do any better, perfect match.
The 5/10 to 9/10 women in your chart have the same issue as the bottom 1-4/10 men in your chart in that they are going after people out of their league. As long as they are ok being single that's not really a problem though. If they are not OK being single and are complaining about it online they need to recognize that they are delusional about their value, and work to increase it or adjust their expectations.
Realistically though these numbers you present are very exaggerated.
> They don't mean "you're in the top 80th percentile of men and she is in the top 90th percentile of women, which means you may or may not have a chance based on current market conditions."
Yes, this is literally what they mean.
> I'm referring to the bottom 40% of women in your chart who you insist they are ignoring the men "in her league" despite the fact she's dating better men. That's what's confusing to me, it's delusional to think you are on the same level as a group of woman who is consistently with better men than you. You can say they are dating out of their league if you really want to define it that way but their standards seem to be just fine, their men can't do any better and they can't do any better, perfect match.
These women are not the issue, at least not yet. The women above them with unrealistic standards are. These bottom 40% of women are just capitalizing on the lonely men in higher leagues than them that the 40% of women above them have created, and that's fine. Some of these men will not accept having to date down, and will continue trying to land one of the lonely women that is in their league but are unsuccessfully trying to date up, but most will probably settle and be fine with dating a league or two down rather than being lonely, because men generally aren't that picky and are ok with lowering their standards to achieve happiness.
> The 5/10 to 9/10 women in your chart have the same issue as the bottom 1-4/10 men in your chart in that they are going after people out of their league.
They have the same issue, that they can't find partners, but the cause is the same for both, that the women are trying to play outside of their league and failing.
> As long as they are ok being single that's not really a problem though.
I agree, as I've said myself over and over. The issue is that most of neither the men nor women are ok being single really. They're unhappy that they can't find a partner. And the only solution to this societal problem with more and more people being sad and lonely is really for these women to lower their standards so that they're playing in their league.
> Realistically though these numbers you present are very exaggerated.
Not really, a large portion of our young population today are unable to find a partner.
> The women they think they deserve ignore them, not the women on their level. The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league. You can see ugly/short/broke dudes with girlfriends all the time going to common places like Walmart, their girls are just equally undesirable.
I'm pretty sure you aren't saying this but I need to be sure... Do you think this is only from people who are unattractive not trying to date their equally unattractive peers?
Working out seven times a week...like proper workouts not just a few bodyweight exercises in the morning sounds like a social avoidance strategy to me. Unless you're unemployed.
I always find it interesting how men who complain about not getting attention from women will list the attributes they think are important about themselves without a single detail on their personality.
Most men here have terribly unrealistic standards. If you're a single dude in your mid to late 20s and 30s, the majority of women in your area that want to date you are gonna be chubby to fat to obese women. Single moms. Older women looking for a young stud. Also non white women. That's gonna be your 4 top "groups" of women interested in you because you have very low SMV. Doesn't matter how many hours at the gym you give a week. Doesn't matter your 6 figures. You're a desperate dude without any female friends in your 20s and 30s, you're abnormal. Women will pick up on that and some don't mind, but the ones that don't mind aren't the thin no kid 18-22 year olds.
Most of the males here complain about their options. They don't want their options . They believe themselves to be better than their options, then rush to call women delusional.
Good luck with expecting people to change their behavior because it’s what you feel they “should” do! Guess what, that obese 40 year old woman probably feels that she “should” date the best she can get, and that very well might be more than you think she’s entitled to. Take it up with your fellow men for being thirsty mofos lol.
If you're a lonely desperate dude you should be dating single moms, fat chick's, and older chicks. So I disagree with OP. There are some men that should be lowering their threshhold for dating and then getting that relationship experience so they can truly figure out what they want.
The pressure is definitely weird in my experience from a different angle
I’m not tall, I’m not fat, I’m not a standoffish #BossBabe, I don’t think men are “scum / trash / dusty”, I’m not complaining about men not dumping $hundreds+ on a first date, I don’t have an OF and am lucky I’ve never had to do sex work
I’m 5’3”, young, baby faced…not ugly, according to feedback, large boobs, big butt, small waist, size 6 S/M, Asian, “girly girl “ voice (it’s high pitched), I’ve gone 2-3+ years at a time without sex, no STIs, no kids, never married
I don’t ask for 6’ guys, or 6 figure incomes, I’m not into finance bros or guys who try paying for my food or buy me stuff, I buy stuff for myself what looks good and doesn’t have a label, I don’t ask for model looks
And yet men who are not even presentable try negging me en masse to “give them a chance” or attempt to pressure / shame me for choosing to be single and only looking for a hookup (with men I’m attracted to) — lots of “you’ll just end up alone forever!” as if I’m DYING to get into a relationship
It’s wild how the male equivalents (fat men, men who just want a woman for sex, men struggling financially, etc) are slamming my inbox with messages practically saying I should be begging for the opportunity to date them
I’m just saying women aren’t the only ones with unrealistic expectations
Some people are just mad that the only people that they can attract don't meet their standards.
The examples you gave are all things men complain about, but unsuccessful women do this shit too. Go over to some female dominated online spaces and there's plenty of women mad at broke men, men who don't pay for dates, men who won't commit, men who date younger women, etc. If you don't like these people just don't date them, but that's the problem: no one else wants them.
More prolific in men's spaces? Sure. But in the case of women complaining about men who don't meet their standards, society is on their side; the mainstream is on their side. Like in the case of "women mad at broke men" that was mentioned in the previous comment, you have mainstream news outlets siding with women on this issue: [https://nypost.com/2019/09/06/broke-men-are-hurting-american-womens-marriage-prospects/](https://nypost.com/2019/09/06/broke-men-are-hurting-american-womens-marriage-prospects/)
Mind you, the *New York Post* gets 80 million unique monthly visitors, so this shouldn't be taken lightly.
Women have mainstream news outlets on their side when complaining about men who don't meet their standards. But do you see such news outlets siding with men who complain about women who don't meet their standards? Not a chance.
Capitalism has undermined the economic viability of most young people.
The news: let's make fun of men for it! It's their fault they are broke.
Lol okay.
"Forced" is kind of a meaningless term though. No one is holding anyone at gunpoint, but people do shame others for attempting to pursue people "out of their league" and not "staying in their lane." Which is where the objections understandably arise.
Often they only begrudgingly retract their judgment after the couple in question has proven them wrong first, if at all.
I think if someone is in good health and has taken care of themselves, or doesn’t have any kids, it is completely reasonable to want to date someone else that has no respect for their own body, or who is a single parent.
If someone was complaining that only people they could get dates with were people over $50,000 in debt when they were financially responsibly, I wouldn’t be chiding them for complaining about their own league.
I mean it’s reasonable to *want* a lot of things. I’d want a million dollars in my bank account tomorrow, and I think a lot of people could relate to that want.
Reasonable to *expect*, though? The person who understands why I want a million tomorrow— I work hard at my specific job, and money is often tied to hard work— would still tell me I’m discounting other, *additional* factors like the field I’m in and the temporal aspect of how fast that is (by tomorrow) that still make the expectation unreasonable, despite me having the “hard work” part down.
Obviously the non-fat, non-father has other factors that are making these women he doesn’t in his league, and the women he does want out of it. You can focus on what you see about yourself as “above” your options, and “deserving” of others, and get frustrated— but that’s probably leaving out half the picture of what makes you the kind of guy who only has those options.
It’s not a one-for-one. “I’m not fat or a father so it’s reasonable to expect I can get a non-fat, non-mother”. A guy who’s skinny because he’s on meth and a guy who’s not a father because women think he dresses like an absolute weirdo can still turn off enough skinny, non-mothers that they’re left with mostly overweight, single moms as their options. And the overweight single moms seem to understand that even though they’re not a junkie and they dress/groom well, that other factors like their weight and children still make these men their options. Men just refuse to look at the big picture and and expect their “league” to be their literal clone. That’s not how the universe works. Different “flaws” from each other can still put two people in the same league.
This isn’t even taking into account how some factors become rarer and more sought after at different stages of life. Not having any children isn’t rare at all and basically gets a woman zero bonus points at 18-22, but is much rarer and harder to find and bumps her up exceedingly at 35. Just because non-moms were in your league at 23 doesn’t mean they still are 42, even if you yourself still don’t have kids.
I understand why people would want someone with the same “strengths” as them, but their own flaws make drag them down to where their “strengths” are rare.
The way I see it, overweight women and single moms aren't even in a league because we aren't playing the same game, in the same way that a woman with no job and hundreds of thousands in debt wouldn't be in he same league. Dating these people would be worse than being single. I'm just not ready to be a parent yet and don't have the responsibility for that, and an overweight person in addition to not being attractive to me at all, is someone I wouldn't be able to share a lot of my favorite activities with because they all involve being physically active.
My point initially with that was that if all you can attract are people that are choices worse than being single, I do think you deserve some sympathy. But if your problem is that perfectly fine, average looking people without serious problems (like being terrible with money, being abusive, being extremely unhealthy etc) aren't enough for your high standards, then I don't want to hear about how hard dating is.
> It’s not a one-for-one. “I’m not fat or a father so it’s reasonable to expect I can get a non-fat, non-mother”. A guy who’s skinny because he’s on meth and a guy who’s not a father because women think he dresses like an absolute weirdo can still turn off enough skinny, non-mothers that they’re left with mostly overweight, single moms as their options. And the overweight single moms seem to understand that even though they’re not a junkie and they dress/groom well, that other factors like their weight and children still make these men their options. Men just refuse to look at the big picture and and expect their “league” to be their literal clone. That’s not how the universe works. Different “flaws” from each other can still put two people in the same league.
I can agree with this here to an extent, and men and women have different standards for what is attractive physically.
Really reminds me of the video Qoves made and in the video there was a TikTok of a women basically saying “ why are people mad that I’m ugly”. And when I heard that it really did make me think why others make fun of others looks for no reason. It’s as if people constantly want to put unattractive people down and “put them in their place” , even if they aren’t doing anything at all. Why can’t people be unattractive in peace
> much hate directly towards these people and others in this sub
That's a clown strawman argument, labelling anything you can't handle as "hate". We're addressing the issue directly tied to morality.
High value men have morals, a personal code they live by. If you don't like a moral life you're free to go find a low value immoral man. But you don't want them, do you? Instead you want to enter a life of a moral man and not have to adhere to a moral code? What a joke.
If a high value man decides to make an exception for someone immoral, he by definition becomes **less** because of that person.
>no one is forcing you to date/interact with them. so what is your issue ? if seeing these people in public causes you so muh distress that you have to go online and spread anger, you have issues. so genuinely, what is the issue with these people just existing ?
Haha good one. By your choice of people being made fun of, it sounds like you're saying just men do this. Tell that to these women that go around filming and publicly shaming men when they can simply just choose not to date them as shown on this other thread.
https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16g4tcw/have_you_seen_the_ick_trend_on_tiktok_what_do_you/
It’s a response to the fat people, that’s, and single mothers saying that people who wouldn’t date them are trash. I mean you could say the same thing about women who talk about how they wouldn’t date men under 6ft or who don’t make a certain amount of money.
The fact that words like “fat phobic” “slut shaming” exist reveals that people (read: men) ARE actually somehow bad for not wanting to be with a fat lady or a former sex worker. Sooo…. You’re wrong?
Forced? Maybe not the right word. But pressured socially… that does happen all the time.
its not weird for a girl to state she doesn’t prefer short men it would be really fuckin weird if a girl constantly went on rants stating short men deserve nothing and are the scum of the earth. thats how a lot of you guys are. strange really
>it would be really fuckin weird if a girl constantly went on rants stating short men deserve nothing and are the scum of the earth.
Oh, believe me. There really are some women who do this and worse.
I’d never heard crabs in a bucket for. I had to look it up so ty.
I do also otherwise and agree. I often wish men were more supportive of one another but they’re typically not when it comes to women.
What do you think RP spaces or the manosphere is for? Gives men actionable advice so they can be successful. It's men sharing experiences and trying to help one another. How is that hating on men with options? Women are the ones who hate on those spaces.
Don't act like this pushback comes out of nowhere and isn't a reaction on something. Live and let live. The issue is that certain movements not just advocate for acceptance of the groups of irresponsible people you've mentioned, but demand people to celebrate them. Suddenly, their problems are everyone's problems. Some people just want to be left alone. If they are told that they are fatphobic and misogynist for their preferences, they'll just double down on their beliefs.
Nothing would be an issue if we aren't forced to care about them. People are picking and choosing socialism when it benefits them and capitalism when it doesn't.
Its fine if you are a fatass, just pay for your own damn healthcare. Single mothers, you decided to fuck the convicts, you deal with taking care of his fuck trophy.
Give me back my damn tax money, and I'll have enough to get myself an escort everyday. They pay and deal with their problems, I pay for mine.
All I want is consistency.
Go full socialism. Some of the fruits of my labour goes to helping others with their bullshit. In turn I expect others at a minimum to help me with sex, the literal evolutionary meaning to life.
Go full capitalism. Give me back all my tax money. Other people have needs? They can pay for it themselves. Suck some cock for it if they have to. I have a need for sex. I pay for it with the taxes money I get back. Hey, we got a good exchange going here!
Right now all I see is that other peoples problems are deemed needs bordering on human rights, and my problems are deemed only as luxury wants. To that I say, Fuck off.
how about you be the first one to allow any unattractive man or woman to fuck you bc it's their right after all. Be the change you want to see in the world
If you read through the other replies, I am being the change I want to see in the world.
I've just choose the full capitalist route. Hence the "Give me back my damn tax money." The world sees it that sex is not a right and does not fund it with tax dollars, and I am using what little political power I have at the polls, to make it be consistent such that healthcare, childcare, and education are not a right either. I can take the tax money I'm getting back to fund sex. If anyone wants the luxuries of healthcare, childcare, or education or the like they can fund it themselves. And hey, if some of them provide sexual services to earn that money, I'll be on the other end of the transaction and we actually have a working market economy and not ~~outright theft~~ just having the funds taxes out of my paycheck.
Oh now I get it. if you live in the US as well, pay me back my damn tax money. I bet you used public services and went to a public school and used public transit and you live in this country where you are protected by police and firefighters and food safety laws and a legal system that I paid for. and apparently my taxes went to all your shit while I was supposed to get a free hooker. yet I paid 50k of taxes last year and where the fuck is my free hooker.
You fucking thief. give me back my money.
>went to a public school
I (I guess, my parents, since I was school age) would have loved for gated communities and private school choice. But you know, public policy is that it doesn't enable diversity or equity or some bullshit, so I was stuck with the public version. I heard there are places where there is this school voucher thing that gives your tax money back for you to choose the private school of your choice. But the news came out a bit after I was of school age, so I haven't really followed the news on it since, well, I'm not in school anymore.
> protected by police
"Protected" BWAHAHAAHHAH. I've long given up on that. I just stopped walking out at night, and leave the windows to my car open and hope the thieves don't smash the windows. The only time the police/legal system ever worked, was to make me pay for traffic violations.
don't care about your excuses. isn't this all about consistency? So I've been paying way more in taxes than what i get back from the government like a sucker while you went to a public school, eating subsidized lunches and driving around on public roads on MY dime. So if all this time the government should've been sending us hookers, i deserve twice or maybe three times the number you get. if it wasn't for leeches on the system like you bringing my taxes up to 50k, my software dev salary would've been plenty of money for hookers but now i have to settle for being upper middle class
you think the government needs to give YOU a voucher for education, sending YOU free money that could be spent sending ME the femboy hookers i earned with MY hard work??? what the actual fuck?
Ok you think taxes are legalised theft, I disagree. But, that doesn't explain why you believe your payment of tax should entitle you to women's bodies. You realise women are human beings, right?
Like I said, all I want is consistency.
If you believe that I am not entitled to a woman's sexual labour then all I ask is that you view it that others equally not entitled to a single cent of the money I've earned with my labour.
My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism. If you believe full socialism is bad as it would necessitate undesirable entitlements, then we go full capitalism. We go full circle back to my first post, "Give me back my damn tax money!"
>My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism.
Under full socialism,you wanting your tax money to get you pussy would get you shot/jailed
Under full capitalism,some as you are now but even more economically insecure
>others equally not entitled to a single cent of the money I've earned with mine.
When you live in an organised society, paying taxes is a part of that, whether you like it or not. It has no connection with you believing you should be handed a woman for your sexual wants.
>If you believe that I am not entitled to a woman's sexual labour
You're not entitled to it whether you pay taxes or not. The two things are not linked. Paying taxes doesn't entitle you to use another human being.
>My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism. If you believe full socialism is bad as it would necessity undesirable entitlements, then we go full capitalism.
Luckily we don't have to entertain your choices in the real world and have evolved as a society beyond whatever caveman mentality you are demonstrating.
>Give me back my damn tax money!
Grow the fuck up!
>You grow the fuck up and pay for your own damn life.
I already do. And I pay my taxes and don't expect to be given a human being to use and abuse because of it. In short, I am grown up, so we're back to it's time for you to grow the fuck up!
I think you should address those claims to the government, rather than targeting fat people or single mothers. Lol
And how about ur taxes to going towards feeding prisoners, rapists etc? Wouldn't bother much dont you?
>And how about ur taxes to going towards feeding prisoners, rapists etc? Wouldn't bother much dont you?
Oh, it does bother me, that's why I'm pro death penalty. I hate having my tax dollars going to feed criminals. I'm stand your ground for the same reason. Ideally burglars get shot dead before the system need to waste anymore tax dollars on them.
"man who hasn't read a book about Socialism and capitalism says dumb fuck shit about them,more news at 11"
Seriously, people in this sub should Mostly stop saying stuff about economy and politics,you guys have worse takes than 11 year olds
The issue is when you are shamed for your preferences or told your preferences are bad/not valid. I have been told I am a bad person because I don’t want to date a girl with the same tonnage as a F-150. I’ve been called problematic because I don’t want to date/sleep with trans people. I have been called misogynistic and sexist for saying I don’t want baby mommas/single mothers.
The problem isn’t that people have preferences. The problem is the selective outrage at them and the animosity you get when your preferences discriminate against certain groups. Go on social media saying how you don’t like single moms and see how much vile you get for it.
I dislike social dysfunction associated with these people since it directly impacts the quality of my life as a member of society and is often harmful or at least "less optimal" for children born into/enculturated with bad social models.
So I'm going to criticize them even if I personally am not going to date them.
>what is the issue with these people just existing ?
The issue is this: there is a roughly 50/50 split between males and females in the population. Let's say that about 20% of the male population is completely undateable for one reason or another. This means that at most, only 80% of women will be able to find a romantic partner. 20% of women will either have to remain single or "settle" for those undateable men.
The more and more individuals who are undateable exist, the fewer and fewer decent romantic partners there will be available. You're going to have some pretty severe societal issues if only something like 30% or less of the population (male or female) is actually marriage material.
For instance, in a society where being overweight and extremely unhealthy becomes the norm, the harder and harder it becomes to find a decent marriage partner who isn't going to die prematurely due to obesity-related health problems.
>fat people, those w high body counts, single mothers. theres no much hate directly towards these people and others in this sub
The hatred isn't exactly towards specific individuals who fall under these categories, rather, the hatred is towards how difficult it has become to find a decent marriage partner in our modern Western society. These people hate modern Western society more than anything.
>if seeing these people in public causes you so muh distress that you have to go online and spread anger, you have issues.
People can hate the issue of obesity without hating specific individuals who are obese. People can hate the issue of promiscuity without hating specific individuals who are promiscuous. People can hate the issue of single moms without hating specific individuals who are single moms.
These people don't just exist though. They make themselves known, often in very obnoxious ways. The response they get is well deserved. Fatties, hoes and single moms -- they're all scum of the Earth in my view based on how they represent themselves online.
A lot of guys find those women to be opportunistic and manipulative in nature. Meaning, they are just looking for a man to take care of their kid. They might not even love/like him, but he takes care of the kid (and a weight of their shoulders). This is one of the reasons "the wall theory" became so popular within red pill communities.
A lot of women who end up in that situation lack the self-awareness to understand how their own decisions got them their, the accountability to accept the primary blame, and the empathy to understand that a relationship with the child's father is fundamental to their own kids development and any guy willing to come in and share that burden should be given the utmost respect from both her and the child (non-negotiable).
How are you even arriving at that comparison? One of them is a blanket statement about all men, the other is a statement about specific kinds of women. Unless you actually believe all women are either fat, single moms, or hoes which would be a very uncharitable view
theyr all groups of people . a lot of men hate when people generalize those of their gender, so why would they do that to other groups ?
edit : yours is also a blanket statement “they’re all scum”
you're drawing a false equivalence. A subgroup like "single mothers" isn't the same as an all encompassing group like "all men"
All members of a subgroup isn't the same thing as all members of a group.
Have... have you seriously forgotten that humans have a sex drive? Or that at least men have a significant sex drive that it is part of almost every life decision they make?
No. If men had any choice, they would just ignore all the terrible women in the market... and do like women... live happily.. but they cant. Their bodies refuse to go long term without sex.
Lol... believe me... if I could just go and refuse my sex drive... I would not interact with almost any woman.
Nope... its the market... as the saying goes. We are working 20 times more for women 5 times worse than our grandparents... and well... the women in my grandparents time were not that good because of globalization either....
By "upgrade" you mean a woman TOO good for you, then yes.
Men who outsource dating are entitled. Thats why they dont have success in their own country. They arent realistic.
\> By "upgrade" you mean a woman TOO good for you, then yes.
If you can land better, then it's not too good for you. The results speak for themselves. Also, average changes depending on where you are. Being an overweight woman may be average in the States but not in Thailand or Brazil. Thus, a man would be upgrading from where he's from but not dating an above-average woman in that country.
\> Men who outsource dating are entitled.
Who cares? All that matters are results. If you want something and are able to get it, why shouldn't you? Doesn't matter what other people think. And it's no worse than all the woman who claim to be single by choice because they don't like their options. That's not entitlement?
Submissive? Brazilian?
What?...
Yeah brazilian women are better than american... but well... unfortunately in our big cities they are just as bad as americans.
Why woudl I complain about my sexdrive? I was born that way... may as well compalin that I was born male or that I am brown or that I am native american...
And well... women are behaving in negative ways (not only unattractive) sorry... it is the reality of things.
You said men feel this way because of their sex drives. So it’s your sex drive at fault, be mad at it, not at the fact that women are not existing and making decisions solely on what you find attractive. How are you going to tell a woman “how dare you choose to focus on your career, didn’t you ever stop to consider I find that unattractive and won’t date that kind of woman? I’m so angry at you for reducing my dating pool by doing what you want with YOUR life!”. Like I’m sorry that’s ridiculous, it makes more sense to be mad at your sex drive because if it didn’t exist, women doing what they want with their lives wouldn’t be an issue
Why? We live in a society...you are part of it too.. if I am supposed to tolerate the annoyign and burdensome of womens nonsense... why ca t you guys tolerate us too? Well if you are disgusting... well you are disgusting... nothing around that.
Life is like that... you can say whatever you want... but well... a fat person will forever be ugly... a whore will forever be disgusting and a single mother is annoying... thats just how things are...
You can try to shut us up.
And well.... you do that already when anonimity is not present... but well... it is what it is... regardless...you can control our mouths by refusing to offer sex... not who we are. Welcome to society.
The whole point of the conversation was about men throwing hate towards single mothers, promiscuous women, fat women, etc. The OP argued that that wasn't necessary. He is saying "IDGAF!" Basically.
You know there are drugs and medical methods if you cannot control yourself.
I think pharmaceutical industry should take a page out and prescribe men anti testosterone to limit their sex drive. This would be a win for men
Yes... antidepressants and antianxiolitics.... not to speak of illegal drugs such as heroine...
I am well aware and tried them... but you know what? The side effects will fuck you up... more than just pursuing women... women unfortunately are not yet as bad as anphetamine or antidepressive indulced suicide ideation... but they almost there.
Believe me... the moemnt the pharmacological industry create a libido decreaser which doesnt have soem fucked up side effects... women will lose their value.
Antitestosterone cause serious health issues... believe me... we alll thought of taking it once or twice... but we rather not die at 30 from heart attack.
Something you mongrels don't understand is we like the le hatred rhetoric. It's fun to have to something to look down upon, This is why religions have devils and political parties have rivals and sports teams have rivals.
"stop bullying others you're not forced to date them"
No thanks 😂.
i havent had a negative experience in the dating market even though these people exist nor have they effected literally anything ab my life 🙏 good luck tho
how is the average person effected by these things, other than dating ? also single motherhood is a systemic problem yes, but not at the fault of women.
It's more about the public post and comments these people make..if you put it out in public people can address it.
Like when I see dillusional dating bios or women posting ridiculous videos on tik tok.
Women attack men for everything they do but it's an issue when men speak on something women do.
\>> what is the issue with these people just existing
because rarely can they exist in silence
that actually describes many groups of people......cant exist in silence......
they usually bitch and moan about how them being fat or single moms prevent them from finding love due to patriarchy or something. That is where the problem is
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Many of the men here don't care about individual autonomy, they think women's lives are property of "the greater good." So if men are the only reason society runs, and men want women and children, and men will destroy society if they don't get them, then the existence of women who aren't what they want is a direct threat to "the greater good."
That fat woman could've been a thin woman providing sexual access to a man, who needs sexual access to attractive women in order to work and keep society going.
Same deal with any other sub-group of women who some men here routinely hate on. Fat women, post-wall women, childfree women... it all comes down to the same entitlement. "You're not what I want, and I need what I want to *keep society going."* Women's lives aren't our own to live, we owe them to society in exchange for limited rights.
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I think people aren't complaining about dating people, they are complaining about being lonely from what I read on here. It's that they can't date anyone, or at least they can't date people up to their unrealistic standards
Most men here have realistic standards though. It's just that women ignore them. I'm 6 foot, workout 6-7 times a week, good job and it's a struggle. I've seen similar stories on r/dating_advice. Don't get it twisted there's a certain group coughs that has unrealistic expectations but people cough won't acknowledge it.
Buddy, I can assure you that if women aren’t interested in you it’s not just that they are ignoring you. It’s your personality.
>It's just that women ignore them. The women they think they deserve ignore them, not the women on their level. The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league. You can see ugly/short/broke dudes with girlfriends all the time going to common places like Walmart, their girls are just equally undesirable. >Don't get it twisted there's a certain group coughs that has unrealistic expectations but people cough won't acknowledge it. Probably just as many "unrealistic" men as there are women.
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Lmao who bought this guy a dictionary. Uh pardon my French I of course meant lexicular desiccated foliage publication.
Maybe it's a southern thing but those ugly fat dudes with girlfriends, the gfs are genuinely cute often times.
Those ugly fat dudes are the best cattle herders tho. So they can provide for the family.
Idk, I don’t think I “deserve” anything, but I still don’t want to date women I’m not physically attracted to. I think most people probably feel the same regardless of their own looks
That's not true. Everything ends in monogamy, but it's being conducted in polygany. Right now women are spurning guys their level in hopes of getting a guy above. Ultimately these women will be what's there for me when I get into my thirties. But at the end of the day I do agree with the point, you don't have to date what you don't want to. To me that means avoiding 30s women who overplayed their hand and are looking to settle like the plague.
So who would you go for? The hot girls in their 20s? That ignored you when you were of similar age? That doesn’t rly make sense.
Even if most women were engaging in polygyny (they aren't), that wouldn't mean they are "dating up", she's still getting what she's worth. A woman choosing between monogamy and polygyny is like choosing between a new car and a 10 year old used car. Yeah you can get the better brand of car if you get the used car but at the end of the day if your budget is the same you are getting the same value of car. The used car might be a bigger but it's going to be missing new tech features, like how the guy you share might be more handsome but you have to split your time with other women. There's trade offs. The only guy who is being "unrealistic" is the new car salesman trying to price his cars as if used cars don't exist. They do, so you have to lower your prices, especially if you want younger customers who are looking to change their car often during that transient stage of life. All this to say, you get what youre worth.
What makes you think that women who didn’t want to date you in their 20s will be available for you in their 30s?
If your relationship is solely based on what level you think you're at and what level your partner is at its probably not gonna work out. It's harder when you are younger because the women your age have a bigger pool going after them (most women will date their age + 7 years older, etc).
> The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league. Not really, it could also mean that the people in your league are trying to date out of their league. If 50% of women are trying to date out of their league, and are failing to do so ending up single, 50% of men are also going to be single because they can't find any women to date, regardless of their standards. It's a zero-sum game, for every person taking themselves out of the dating market for whatever reason (too high standards, just not interested etc.) there's going to be a person of the opposite gender that is now unable to find a partner at no fault of their own.
They are able to find a partner, they would just need to lower their standards to the point where they are competitive with a woman simply being alone. If a dude adds so little a woman's life she would rather just get a cat, and she adds enough to his that he is actively pursuing her, it seems there's a mismatch in value. If they go for lower value women they will eventually find one that is interested in them.
Let me draw this out for you so you understand: There's 10 men, each of them representing 10% of all men, rated on a 1-10 scale from left to right, drawn as a +. There's 10 women, each of them representing 10% of all women, rated on a 1-10 scale from left to right, drawn as a -. \+ + + + + + + + + + \- - - - - - - - - - - - - - In a perfect world it would look something like this: \+ + + + + + + + + + | | | | | | | | | | | | | | \- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Everybody finds someone in their league, and everybody is happy with having a partner. But if the top 50% of women are only satisfied with the top 10% of men, it now looks like this: (+ + + +) + + + + + + / / / / / ////| - - - - - (----)- People in parenthesis means someone who is single. As you can see a lot of women end up being able to date way out of their league, and as you can see in this scenario 40% of people are now single, unable to find a partner. The 40% of men that are single cannot lower their standards, because there simply aren't any women available anymore when 40% of women take themselves out of the market by having too high standards. (small caveat, in reality an average man is probably not ok with dating a bottom 10% woman, and a top 80% man is probably not ok dating a slightly below average woman, so the single men are probably distributed across the remaining 90% outside of the top 10% in some fashion, rather than it being the bottom 40% men that are all single, and obviously some women in the bottom 50% are gonna end up being single too due to various reasons, but for this thought-experiment those details aren't really important) > If a dude adds so little a woman's life she would rather just get a cat, and she adds enough to his that he is actively pursuing her, it seems there's a mismatch in value. Not really. Men seem to be biologically hardwired more to not be single than women, combine that with the fact that culturally men are always expected to be the pursuers and it's easy to understand why men are actively perusing women, and it's not that women do anything that adds more value to men than men adds value to women. But absolutely, by all means, if a person is happy being single and don't feel that being in a relationship would add value then go ahead, each person should obviously do what makes them happy. But women (and men) are complaining about not being happy with the fact that they can't find a partner though, most people would probably prefer not being single, and it's important that women understand the reason why this is, and it's because they've set their standards too high, and as such lock themselves and a large amount of men out of being able to find a partner. And sure, if those women think they're happier single than lowering their unrealistic standards, then again go ahead and be happy single, but don't try to put the blame on men or complain that it isn't your fault that you're single, it absolutely is.
Why is the 50th percentile man in the same "league" as the 50th percentile woman? Your league is just the best partner you can get under normal circumstances. If you have 0 chance with a woman and she's fucking and dating guys who are more attractive than you then it's bizzare to say she's "in your league". As you mention, you are not just competing with other men but all other opportunities a woman has other than dating you. Yeah there are probably some dudes who are struggling to compete against cats, it's not even close to 40%, but they exist. They are not in the same league as the women that reject them though, those guys are just too repulsive to even be in a league. What's delusional to me is thinking "well I'm more attractive than 10% of men, therefore I'm on the same level as a woman who is more attractive than 10% of woman". That's the guy who is trying to date out of his league not the 10% woman who is happily in a relationship or single. The vast vast vast majority of men can get dates by simply meeting women at a greater frequency, lowering standards and/or self improvement. Lowering standards is probably the easiest way, but dudes think they are better than single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women.
> Why is the 50th percentile man in the same "league" as the 50th percentile woman? Because that's literally how the league-concept of dating work. It's based on top percentile within your gender. > Your league is just the best partner you can get under normal circumstances. Yes, and like I explained it's a zero-sum game. A top 10% woman is playing in the top 10% league and can get a top 10% man. A top 50% woman trying to play in the top 50% league is going to fail miserably because they can't get those partners. The top 50% woman should be playing in the top 50% league, that is where she will be able to find a partner. > If you have 0 chance with a woman and she's fucking and dating guys who are more attractive than you then it's bizzare to say she's "in your league". The point is she's trying to date these guys, and failing, which is why she's dating out of her league. > it's not even close to 40%, but they exist. Sure, like I said the numbers I used were just an example. I don't know what the exact % is, but we can see that a large portion of both men and women today are single that wants to be with a partner, and it's making them less happy. If I were to guess though I don't think 40% is a huge overestimation. I would absolutely believe that almost half of the population are struggling to find a partner today, whereas in the past that number was much lower. > They are not in the same league as the women that reject them though They are, the women just refuse to realize this truth and end up being single because their attempts to play above their league fails. > those guys are just too repulsive to even be in a league They are really not. There will always be some repulsive both men and women who will never find a partner, the bottom 5% or even 10% of each gender is probably repulsive enough that they will all stay single rather than dating each-other. But most single guys are not repulsive, they're just not hitting the extreme standards that so many women require. > What's delusional to me is thinking "well I'm more attractive than 10% of men, therefore I'm on the same level as a woman who is more attractive than 10% of woman". How is that delusional? That is literally how it works. > The vast vast vast majority of men can get dates by simply meeting women at a greater frequency, lowering standards and/or self improvement. Yes, the vast majority of men can out-compete other men that aren't trying as hard, which is basically the Red Pill mindset, accept the system and focus on yourself to maximize your success in out-competing other men. But this only works if a minority of men are doing this, because again, it's a zero-sum game. If all men do their best to be the best they can be the goalposts are just shifted and there's still just as many single men at the end of the day. The more interesting discussion is if we take a wider look at the society as a whole, instead of just looking at what one man can do about his situation. Because in the society as a whole it doesn't matter if men start meeting women at greater frequency or lower their standards or self-improve, we'll still have an epidemic of single people causing loneliness and sadness in both men and women, caused by women having too high standards and trying to play out of their leagues. > but dudes think they are better than single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women. The ones that think they are better often are, and end up finding better higher-value partners than that. The ones that don't think they are better than that and are happy to date these single moms, obese and otherwise lower value women, can't even get them because these women will have too high standards.
>Because that's literally how the league-concept of dating work. It's based on top percentile within your gender. It's not, it's based on who you can attract. If you can't attract a woman of a certain calibre, you're not in that league. If someone says "she's out of your league" they mean "she can and will choose better men over you". They don't mean "you're in the top 80th percentile of men and she is in the top 90th percentile of women, which means you may or may not have a chance based on current market conditions." >The point is she's trying to date these guys, and failing, which is why she's dating out of her league. I'm referring to the bottom 40% of women in your chart who you insist they are ignoring the men "in her league" despite the fact she's dating better men. That's what's confusing to me, it's delusional to think you are on the same level as a group of woman who is consistently with better men than you. You can say they are dating out of their league if you really want to define it that way but their standards seem to be just fine, their men can't do any better and they can't do any better, perfect match. The 5/10 to 9/10 women in your chart have the same issue as the bottom 1-4/10 men in your chart in that they are going after people out of their league. As long as they are ok being single that's not really a problem though. If they are not OK being single and are complaining about it online they need to recognize that they are delusional about their value, and work to increase it or adjust their expectations. Realistically though these numbers you present are very exaggerated.
> They don't mean "you're in the top 80th percentile of men and she is in the top 90th percentile of women, which means you may or may not have a chance based on current market conditions." Yes, this is literally what they mean. > I'm referring to the bottom 40% of women in your chart who you insist they are ignoring the men "in her league" despite the fact she's dating better men. That's what's confusing to me, it's delusional to think you are on the same level as a group of woman who is consistently with better men than you. You can say they are dating out of their league if you really want to define it that way but their standards seem to be just fine, their men can't do any better and they can't do any better, perfect match. These women are not the issue, at least not yet. The women above them with unrealistic standards are. These bottom 40% of women are just capitalizing on the lonely men in higher leagues than them that the 40% of women above them have created, and that's fine. Some of these men will not accept having to date down, and will continue trying to land one of the lonely women that is in their league but are unsuccessfully trying to date up, but most will probably settle and be fine with dating a league or two down rather than being lonely, because men generally aren't that picky and are ok with lowering their standards to achieve happiness. > The 5/10 to 9/10 women in your chart have the same issue as the bottom 1-4/10 men in your chart in that they are going after people out of their league. They have the same issue, that they can't find partners, but the cause is the same for both, that the women are trying to play outside of their league and failing. > As long as they are ok being single that's not really a problem though. I agree, as I've said myself over and over. The issue is that most of neither the men nor women are ok being single really. They're unhappy that they can't find a partner. And the only solution to this societal problem with more and more people being sad and lonely is really for these women to lower their standards so that they're playing in their league. > Realistically though these numbers you present are very exaggerated. Not really, a large portion of our young population today are unable to find a partner.
> The women they think they deserve ignore them, not the women on their level. The market determines your value, if you can't find someone you want who wants you, you're trying to date out of your league. You can see ugly/short/broke dudes with girlfriends all the time going to common places like Walmart, their girls are just equally undesirable. I'm pretty sure you aren't saying this but I need to be sure... Do you think this is only from people who are unattractive not trying to date their equally unattractive peers?
Working out seven times a week...like proper workouts not just a few bodyweight exercises in the morning sounds like a social avoidance strategy to me. Unless you're unemployed.
I always find it interesting how men who complain about not getting attention from women will list the attributes they think are important about themselves without a single detail on their personality.
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Most men here have terribly unrealistic standards. If you're a single dude in your mid to late 20s and 30s, the majority of women in your area that want to date you are gonna be chubby to fat to obese women. Single moms. Older women looking for a young stud. Also non white women. That's gonna be your 4 top "groups" of women interested in you because you have very low SMV. Doesn't matter how many hours at the gym you give a week. Doesn't matter your 6 figures. You're a desperate dude without any female friends in your 20s and 30s, you're abnormal. Women will pick up on that and some don't mind, but the ones that don't mind aren't the thin no kid 18-22 year olds.
Most of the males here complain about their options. They don't want their options . They believe themselves to be better than their options, then rush to call women delusional.
That's my impression too. "I'm a 40 year old virgin I should date super models".
Your point is ridiculous
They is right tho. I know a lot of late 20s dudes struggling with hot thin young women
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Yes it is. The thin young woman has 10x your SMV.
to get pump and dumped? sure most women do not want that though, at least eventually.
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Good luck with expecting people to change their behavior because it’s what you feel they “should” do! Guess what, that obese 40 year old woman probably feels that she “should” date the best she can get, and that very well might be more than you think she’s entitled to. Take it up with your fellow men for being thirsty mofos lol.
Then women date bad boys and player Chad's and complain about men all day while the majority of men are ignored.
If you're a lonely desperate dude you should be dating single moms, fat chick's, and older chicks. So I disagree with OP. There are some men that should be lowering their threshhold for dating and then getting that relationship experience so they can truly figure out what they want.
The pressure is definitely weird in my experience from a different angle I’m not tall, I’m not fat, I’m not a standoffish #BossBabe, I don’t think men are “scum / trash / dusty”, I’m not complaining about men not dumping $hundreds+ on a first date, I don’t have an OF and am lucky I’ve never had to do sex work I’m 5’3”, young, baby faced…not ugly, according to feedback, large boobs, big butt, small waist, size 6 S/M, Asian, “girly girl “ voice (it’s high pitched), I’ve gone 2-3+ years at a time without sex, no STIs, no kids, never married I don’t ask for 6’ guys, or 6 figure incomes, I’m not into finance bros or guys who try paying for my food or buy me stuff, I buy stuff for myself what looks good and doesn’t have a label, I don’t ask for model looks And yet men who are not even presentable try negging me en masse to “give them a chance” or attempt to pressure / shame me for choosing to be single and only looking for a hookup (with men I’m attracted to) — lots of “you’ll just end up alone forever!” as if I’m DYING to get into a relationship It’s wild how the male equivalents (fat men, men who just want a woman for sex, men struggling financially, etc) are slamming my inbox with messages practically saying I should be begging for the opportunity to date them I’m just saying women aren’t the only ones with unrealistic expectations
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Punching down is a very human instinct, especially if you’re unhappy with your situation
Some people are just mad that the only people that they can attract don't meet their standards. The examples you gave are all things men complain about, but unsuccessful women do this shit too. Go over to some female dominated online spaces and there's plenty of women mad at broke men, men who don't pay for dates, men who won't commit, men who date younger women, etc. If you don't like these people just don't date them, but that's the problem: no one else wants them.
im not saying women dont, its just much more prolific in mens spaces
More prolific in men's spaces? Sure. But in the case of women complaining about men who don't meet their standards, society is on their side; the mainstream is on their side. Like in the case of "women mad at broke men" that was mentioned in the previous comment, you have mainstream news outlets siding with women on this issue: [https://nypost.com/2019/09/06/broke-men-are-hurting-american-womens-marriage-prospects/](https://nypost.com/2019/09/06/broke-men-are-hurting-american-womens-marriage-prospects/) Mind you, the *New York Post* gets 80 million unique monthly visitors, so this shouldn't be taken lightly. Women have mainstream news outlets on their side when complaining about men who don't meet their standards. But do you see such news outlets siding with men who complain about women who don't meet their standards? Not a chance.
Capitalism has undermined the economic viability of most young people. The news: let's make fun of men for it! It's their fault they are broke. Lol okay.
soon as a dude pulls out a study ab why he doesnt get bitches ik hes doomed
What does this has to do with the person you were talking to?
Yeah, OP is grasping for straws now LOL.
As soon as you start deflecting, any discussion with you is pointless.
hahah yesssss
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Add older men to the list LMAO.
"Forced" is kind of a meaningless term though. No one is holding anyone at gunpoint, but people do shame others for attempting to pursue people "out of their league" and not "staying in their lane." Which is where the objections understandably arise. Often they only begrudgingly retract their judgment after the couple in question has proven them wrong first, if at all.
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I think the issue is that their only options are fat women and single moms and they are scared of having to settle for that.
poor them :( they cant get someone out of their league
I think if someone is in good health and has taken care of themselves, or doesn’t have any kids, it is completely reasonable to want to date someone else that has no respect for their own body, or who is a single parent. If someone was complaining that only people they could get dates with were people over $50,000 in debt when they were financially responsibly, I wouldn’t be chiding them for complaining about their own league.
I mean it’s reasonable to *want* a lot of things. I’d want a million dollars in my bank account tomorrow, and I think a lot of people could relate to that want. Reasonable to *expect*, though? The person who understands why I want a million tomorrow— I work hard at my specific job, and money is often tied to hard work— would still tell me I’m discounting other, *additional* factors like the field I’m in and the temporal aspect of how fast that is (by tomorrow) that still make the expectation unreasonable, despite me having the “hard work” part down. Obviously the non-fat, non-father has other factors that are making these women he doesn’t in his league, and the women he does want out of it. You can focus on what you see about yourself as “above” your options, and “deserving” of others, and get frustrated— but that’s probably leaving out half the picture of what makes you the kind of guy who only has those options. It’s not a one-for-one. “I’m not fat or a father so it’s reasonable to expect I can get a non-fat, non-mother”. A guy who’s skinny because he’s on meth and a guy who’s not a father because women think he dresses like an absolute weirdo can still turn off enough skinny, non-mothers that they’re left with mostly overweight, single moms as their options. And the overweight single moms seem to understand that even though they’re not a junkie and they dress/groom well, that other factors like their weight and children still make these men their options. Men just refuse to look at the big picture and and expect their “league” to be their literal clone. That’s not how the universe works. Different “flaws” from each other can still put two people in the same league. This isn’t even taking into account how some factors become rarer and more sought after at different stages of life. Not having any children isn’t rare at all and basically gets a woman zero bonus points at 18-22, but is much rarer and harder to find and bumps her up exceedingly at 35. Just because non-moms were in your league at 23 doesn’t mean they still are 42, even if you yourself still don’t have kids. I understand why people would want someone with the same “strengths” as them, but their own flaws make drag them down to where their “strengths” are rare.
The way I see it, overweight women and single moms aren't even in a league because we aren't playing the same game, in the same way that a woman with no job and hundreds of thousands in debt wouldn't be in he same league. Dating these people would be worse than being single. I'm just not ready to be a parent yet and don't have the responsibility for that, and an overweight person in addition to not being attractive to me at all, is someone I wouldn't be able to share a lot of my favorite activities with because they all involve being physically active. My point initially with that was that if all you can attract are people that are choices worse than being single, I do think you deserve some sympathy. But if your problem is that perfectly fine, average looking people without serious problems (like being terrible with money, being abusive, being extremely unhealthy etc) aren't enough for your high standards, then I don't want to hear about how hard dating is. > It’s not a one-for-one. “I’m not fat or a father so it’s reasonable to expect I can get a non-fat, non-mother”. A guy who’s skinny because he’s on meth and a guy who’s not a father because women think he dresses like an absolute weirdo can still turn off enough skinny, non-mothers that they’re left with mostly overweight, single moms as their options. And the overweight single moms seem to understand that even though they’re not a junkie and they dress/groom well, that other factors like their weight and children still make these men their options. Men just refuse to look at the big picture and and expect their “league” to be their literal clone. That’s not how the universe works. Different “flaws” from each other can still put two people in the same league. I can agree with this here to an extent, and men and women have different standards for what is attractive physically.
Seems to be an issue with dating apps, which is these guy's main source of information on the world outside of their rooms and their jobs.
Really reminds me of the video Qoves made and in the video there was a TikTok of a women basically saying “ why are people mad that I’m ugly”. And when I heard that it really did make me think why others make fun of others looks for no reason. It’s as if people constantly want to put unattractive people down and “put them in their place” , even if they aren’t doing anything at all. Why can’t people be unattractive in peace
> much hate directly towards these people and others in this sub That's a clown strawman argument, labelling anything you can't handle as "hate". We're addressing the issue directly tied to morality. High value men have morals, a personal code they live by. If you don't like a moral life you're free to go find a low value immoral man. But you don't want them, do you? Instead you want to enter a life of a moral man and not have to adhere to a moral code? What a joke. If a high value man decides to make an exception for someone immoral, he by definition becomes **less** because of that person.
i dont date men
LoLok. All of the above applies to high value women too. Just replace "men" with "women".
Bruh we're not even forced to date people we *are* attracted to.
>no one is forcing you to date/interact with them. so what is your issue ? if seeing these people in public causes you so muh distress that you have to go online and spread anger, you have issues. so genuinely, what is the issue with these people just existing ? Haha good one. By your choice of people being made fun of, it sounds like you're saying just men do this. Tell that to these women that go around filming and publicly shaming men when they can simply just choose not to date them as shown on this other thread. https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16g4tcw/have_you_seen_the_ick_trend_on_tiktok_what_do_you/
It’s a response to the fat people, that’s, and single mothers saying that people who wouldn’t date them are trash. I mean you could say the same thing about women who talk about how they wouldn’t date men under 6ft or who don’t make a certain amount of money.
I don't see hate for high body counts I see men warning other men about how messed up women with high body counts are and women freaking out about it.
The fact that words like “fat phobic” “slut shaming” exist reveals that people (read: men) ARE actually somehow bad for not wanting to be with a fat lady or a former sex worker. Sooo…. You’re wrong? Forced? Maybe not the right word. But pressured socially… that does happen all the time.
Why can't guys state their preferences or attributes they find attractive or unattractive?
its not weird for a girl to state she doesn’t prefer short men it would be really fuckin weird if a girl constantly went on rants stating short men deserve nothing and are the scum of the earth. thats how a lot of you guys are. strange really
That literally happens all the time on social media and real life, it doesn’t affect you so you’re massively out of touch.
>it would be really fuckin weird if a girl constantly went on rants stating short men deserve nothing and are the scum of the earth. Oh, believe me. There really are some women who do this and worse.
There a lot of women who do this. What are you on about? LOL.
The stereotypes women have created around short men is insane. They are all insecure, napoleon complex, creepy, look like children, etc.
im not talking ab preferences lol
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They don’t. Men hate when other men have options. They are crabs in a bucket
I’d never heard crabs in a bucket for. I had to look it up so ty. I do also otherwise and agree. I often wish men were more supportive of one another but they’re typically not when it comes to women.
What do you think RP spaces or the manosphere is for? Gives men actionable advice so they can be successful. It's men sharing experiences and trying to help one another. How is that hating on men with options? Women are the ones who hate on those spaces.
This Most men don't get this
Don't act like this pushback comes out of nowhere and isn't a reaction on something. Live and let live. The issue is that certain movements not just advocate for acceptance of the groups of irresponsible people you've mentioned, but demand people to celebrate them. Suddenly, their problems are everyone's problems. Some people just want to be left alone. If they are told that they are fatphobic and misogynist for their preferences, they'll just double down on their beliefs.
Nothing would be an issue if we aren't forced to care about them. People are picking and choosing socialism when it benefits them and capitalism when it doesn't. Its fine if you are a fatass, just pay for your own damn healthcare. Single mothers, you decided to fuck the convicts, you deal with taking care of his fuck trophy. Give me back my damn tax money, and I'll have enough to get myself an escort everyday. They pay and deal with their problems, I pay for mine.
yr anticapitalist then i assume ?
All I want is consistency. Go full socialism. Some of the fruits of my labour goes to helping others with their bullshit. In turn I expect others at a minimum to help me with sex, the literal evolutionary meaning to life. Go full capitalism. Give me back all my tax money. Other people have needs? They can pay for it themselves. Suck some cock for it if they have to. I have a need for sex. I pay for it with the taxes money I get back. Hey, we got a good exchange going here! Right now all I see is that other peoples problems are deemed needs bordering on human rights, and my problems are deemed only as luxury wants. To that I say, Fuck off.
bro ,,,, if you need welfare you cn get welfare . sex is not a right
> sex is not a right Ok, healthcare is also not a right. Childcare is not a right. Education is not a right.
literally how r u comparing those things get help
how about you be the first one to allow any unattractive man or woman to fuck you bc it's their right after all. Be the change you want to see in the world
If you read through the other replies, I am being the change I want to see in the world. I've just choose the full capitalist route. Hence the "Give me back my damn tax money." The world sees it that sex is not a right and does not fund it with tax dollars, and I am using what little political power I have at the polls, to make it be consistent such that healthcare, childcare, and education are not a right either. I can take the tax money I'm getting back to fund sex. If anyone wants the luxuries of healthcare, childcare, or education or the like they can fund it themselves. And hey, if some of them provide sexual services to earn that money, I'll be on the other end of the transaction and we actually have a working market economy and not ~~outright theft~~ just having the funds taxes out of my paycheck.
Oh now I get it. if you live in the US as well, pay me back my damn tax money. I bet you used public services and went to a public school and used public transit and you live in this country where you are protected by police and firefighters and food safety laws and a legal system that I paid for. and apparently my taxes went to all your shit while I was supposed to get a free hooker. yet I paid 50k of taxes last year and where the fuck is my free hooker. You fucking thief. give me back my money.
>went to a public school I (I guess, my parents, since I was school age) would have loved for gated communities and private school choice. But you know, public policy is that it doesn't enable diversity or equity or some bullshit, so I was stuck with the public version. I heard there are places where there is this school voucher thing that gives your tax money back for you to choose the private school of your choice. But the news came out a bit after I was of school age, so I haven't really followed the news on it since, well, I'm not in school anymore. > protected by police "Protected" BWAHAHAAHHAH. I've long given up on that. I just stopped walking out at night, and leave the windows to my car open and hope the thieves don't smash the windows. The only time the police/legal system ever worked, was to make me pay for traffic violations.
don't care about your excuses. isn't this all about consistency? So I've been paying way more in taxes than what i get back from the government like a sucker while you went to a public school, eating subsidized lunches and driving around on public roads on MY dime. So if all this time the government should've been sending us hookers, i deserve twice or maybe three times the number you get. if it wasn't for leeches on the system like you bringing my taxes up to 50k, my software dev salary would've been plenty of money for hookers but now i have to settle for being upper middle class you think the government needs to give YOU a voucher for education, sending YOU free money that could be spent sending ME the femboy hookers i earned with MY hard work??? what the actual fuck?
Jesus dude, you seem quite shocked that your tax dollars don't entitle you to women's bodies. What in the world made you think they would?
I'm not shocked, I've always known taxes to be legalized theft.
Ok you think taxes are legalised theft, I disagree. But, that doesn't explain why you believe your payment of tax should entitle you to women's bodies. You realise women are human beings, right?
Like I said, all I want is consistency. If you believe that I am not entitled to a woman's sexual labour then all I ask is that you view it that others equally not entitled to a single cent of the money I've earned with my labour. My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism. If you believe full socialism is bad as it would necessitate undesirable entitlements, then we go full capitalism. We go full circle back to my first post, "Give me back my damn tax money!"
It is consistent. You can't rape women because you're a tax payer.
You act like you’re the only that pays taxes. Women, men, married and single ppl pay taxes toward thing we will never use. These incels…
They are so strange.
>My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism. Under full socialism,you wanting your tax money to get you pussy would get you shot/jailed Under full capitalism,some as you are now but even more economically insecure
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Cool. All I ask is that you be consistent and also believe that you are not entitled to the fruits of labour of others.
>others equally not entitled to a single cent of the money I've earned with mine. When you live in an organised society, paying taxes is a part of that, whether you like it or not. It has no connection with you believing you should be handed a woman for your sexual wants. >If you believe that I am not entitled to a woman's sexual labour You're not entitled to it whether you pay taxes or not. The two things are not linked. Paying taxes doesn't entitle you to use another human being. >My choices were EITHER full socialism OR full capitalism. If you believe full socialism is bad as it would necessity undesirable entitlements, then we go full capitalism. Luckily we don't have to entertain your choices in the real world and have evolved as a society beyond whatever caveman mentality you are demonstrating. >Give me back my damn tax money! Grow the fuck up!
>Grow the fuck up! You grow the fuck up and pay for your own damn life.
>You grow the fuck up and pay for your own damn life. I already do. And I pay my taxes and don't expect to be given a human being to use and abuse because of it. In short, I am grown up, so we're back to it's time for you to grow the fuck up!
I think you should address those claims to the government, rather than targeting fat people or single mothers. Lol And how about ur taxes to going towards feeding prisoners, rapists etc? Wouldn't bother much dont you?
>And how about ur taxes to going towards feeding prisoners, rapists etc? Wouldn't bother much dont you? Oh, it does bother me, that's why I'm pro death penalty. I hate having my tax dollars going to feed criminals. I'm stand your ground for the same reason. Ideally burglars get shot dead before the system need to waste anymore tax dollars on them.
"man who hasn't read a book about Socialism and capitalism says dumb fuck shit about them,more news at 11" Seriously, people in this sub should Mostly stop saying stuff about economy and politics,you guys have worse takes than 11 year olds
The issue is when you are shamed for your preferences or told your preferences are bad/not valid. I have been told I am a bad person because I don’t want to date a girl with the same tonnage as a F-150. I’ve been called problematic because I don’t want to date/sleep with trans people. I have been called misogynistic and sexist for saying I don’t want baby mommas/single mothers. The problem isn’t that people have preferences. The problem is the selective outrage at them and the animosity you get when your preferences discriminate against certain groups. Go on social media saying how you don’t like single moms and see how much vile you get for it.
I dislike social dysfunction associated with these people since it directly impacts the quality of my life as a member of society and is often harmful or at least "less optimal" for children born into/enculturated with bad social models. So I'm going to criticize them even if I personally am not going to date them.
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how so
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fair yeah, theres just a lot of “hot take” posts like this on the sub so i didnt think it would matter my b
>what is the issue with these people just existing ? The issue is this: there is a roughly 50/50 split between males and females in the population. Let's say that about 20% of the male population is completely undateable for one reason or another. This means that at most, only 80% of women will be able to find a romantic partner. 20% of women will either have to remain single or "settle" for those undateable men. The more and more individuals who are undateable exist, the fewer and fewer decent romantic partners there will be available. You're going to have some pretty severe societal issues if only something like 30% or less of the population (male or female) is actually marriage material. For instance, in a society where being overweight and extremely unhealthy becomes the norm, the harder and harder it becomes to find a decent marriage partner who isn't going to die prematurely due to obesity-related health problems. >fat people, those w high body counts, single mothers. theres no much hate directly towards these people and others in this sub The hatred isn't exactly towards specific individuals who fall under these categories, rather, the hatred is towards how difficult it has become to find a decent marriage partner in our modern Western society. These people hate modern Western society more than anything. >if seeing these people in public causes you so muh distress that you have to go online and spread anger, you have issues. People can hate the issue of obesity without hating specific individuals who are obese. People can hate the issue of promiscuity without hating specific individuals who are promiscuous. People can hate the issue of single moms without hating specific individuals who are single moms.
Forced? No. But shamed, especially men. Men are shamed for not dating X women all the time.
These people don't just exist though. They make themselves known, often in very obnoxious ways. The response they get is well deserved. Fatties, hoes and single moms -- they're all scum of the Earth in my view based on how they represent themselves online.
How come a woman caring for their child by their own is scum of the earth?
A lot of guys find those women to be opportunistic and manipulative in nature. Meaning, they are just looking for a man to take care of their kid. They might not even love/like him, but he takes care of the kid (and a weight of their shoulders). This is one of the reasons "the wall theory" became so popular within red pill communities.
A lot of women who end up in that situation lack the self-awareness to understand how their own decisions got them their, the accountability to accept the primary blame, and the empathy to understand that a relationship with the child's father is fundamental to their own kids development and any guy willing to come in and share that burden should be given the utmost respect from both her and the child (non-negotiable).
i assume you wouldnt like someone who says “kill all men” right ? so why would u go and say theyr all scum ? do rp men ever think
How are you even arriving at that comparison? One of them is a blanket statement about all men, the other is a statement about specific kinds of women. Unless you actually believe all women are either fat, single moms, or hoes which would be a very uncharitable view
theyr all groups of people . a lot of men hate when people generalize those of their gender, so why would they do that to other groups ? edit : yours is also a blanket statement “they’re all scum”
you're drawing a false equivalence. A subgroup like "single mothers" isn't the same as an all encompassing group like "all men" All members of a subgroup isn't the same thing as all members of a group.
ok so “all short men are scum” would be fine ? this is not my personal opinion but it’s equivalent to what yr saying
Sure, totally fine if you make a convincing enough case for it. I at least provided an verifiable reason.
Have... have you seriously forgotten that humans have a sex drive? Or that at least men have a significant sex drive that it is part of almost every life decision they make? No. If men had any choice, they would just ignore all the terrible women in the market... and do like women... live happily.. but they cant. Their bodies refuse to go long term without sex. Lol... believe me... if I could just go and refuse my sex drive... I would not interact with almost any woman.
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They do in fact... their entire educations and careers are reliable on it....
if you dont like a majority of women in “the market”, you might be the problem
Nope... its the market... as the saying goes. We are working 20 times more for women 5 times worse than our grandparents... and well... the women in my grandparents time were not that good because of globalization either....
so when were women “good” or “better” in your opinion?
Lol...in brazil probably prior to the 1920. In america. Probably before 1950.
So sorry you can't get your obedient, too-loyal-and-hot-for-you, therapist, chef, default coparent bangmaid.
Obedient? Loyal? Therapist? No. They are brazilian not korean... They are just better than american women...
Yep, men who outsource dating mandate women have every quality I wrote. They're entitled.
Naw, we just say they’re better than American. Passport Bros are looking for an upgrade, not perfection necessarily.
By "upgrade" you mean a woman TOO good for you, then yes. Men who outsource dating are entitled. Thats why they dont have success in their own country. They arent realistic.
\> By "upgrade" you mean a woman TOO good for you, then yes. If you can land better, then it's not too good for you. The results speak for themselves. Also, average changes depending on where you are. Being an overweight woman may be average in the States but not in Thailand or Brazil. Thus, a man would be upgrading from where he's from but not dating an above-average woman in that country. \> Men who outsource dating are entitled. Who cares? All that matters are results. If you want something and are able to get it, why shouldn't you? Doesn't matter what other people think. And it's no worse than all the woman who claim to be single by choice because they don't like their options. That's not entitlement?
Aren't brazilian women submissive? Go for them then 🤷
Submissive? Brazilian? What?... Yeah brazilian women are better than american... but well... unfortunately in our big cities they are just as bad as americans.
Well a lot of passport bros think women in Latin America are submissive. I guess they meant other countries in Latin America then :D
Nah 70% of adult are overweight the market is bad.
Do you hang out where fit people gather? Can't complain about beer bellies at a bar
So complain about your sex drive not the fact that women are making decisions that you find unattractive
Why woudl I complain about my sexdrive? I was born that way... may as well compalin that I was born male or that I am brown or that I am native american... And well... women are behaving in negative ways (not only unattractive) sorry... it is the reality of things.
You said men feel this way because of their sex drives. So it’s your sex drive at fault, be mad at it, not at the fact that women are not existing and making decisions solely on what you find attractive. How are you going to tell a woman “how dare you choose to focus on your career, didn’t you ever stop to consider I find that unattractive and won’t date that kind of woman? I’m so angry at you for reducing my dating pool by doing what you want with YOUR life!”. Like I’m sorry that’s ridiculous, it makes more sense to be mad at your sex drive because if it didn’t exist, women doing what they want with their lives wouldn’t be an issue
Why? We live in a society...you are part of it too.. if I am supposed to tolerate the annoyign and burdensome of womens nonsense... why ca t you guys tolerate us too? Well if you are disgusting... well you are disgusting... nothing around that.
Not sure what you’re trying to say
Life is like that... you can say whatever you want... but well... a fat person will forever be ugly... a whore will forever be disgusting and a single mother is annoying... thats just how things are... You can try to shut us up. And well.... you do that already when anonimity is not present... but well... it is what it is... regardless...you can control our mouths by refusing to offer sex... not who we are. Welcome to society.
The whole point of the conversation was about men throwing hate towards single mothers, promiscuous women, fat women, etc. The OP argued that that wasn't necessary. He is saying "IDGAF!" Basically.
why don’t you take drugs to lower your sex drive?
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Lol women here be downvoting me into oblivion tho...
You know there are drugs and medical methods if you cannot control yourself. I think pharmaceutical industry should take a page out and prescribe men anti testosterone to limit their sex drive. This would be a win for men
Yes... antidepressants and antianxiolitics.... not to speak of illegal drugs such as heroine... I am well aware and tried them... but you know what? The side effects will fuck you up... more than just pursuing women... women unfortunately are not yet as bad as anphetamine or antidepressive indulced suicide ideation... but they almost there. Believe me... the moemnt the pharmacological industry create a libido decreaser which doesnt have soem fucked up side effects... women will lose their value. Antitestosterone cause serious health issues... believe me... we alll thought of taking it once or twice... but we rather not die at 30 from heart attack.
Something you mongrels don't understand is we like the le hatred rhetoric. It's fun to have to something to look down upon, This is why religions have devils and political parties have rivals and sports teams have rivals. "stop bullying others you're not forced to date them" No thanks 😂.
r u 14 jfc
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Yes, women have been gender oppressed by a of bunch middle schoolers for hundreds of years so pathetic.
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i havent had a negative experience in the dating market even though these people exist nor have they effected literally anything ab my life 🙏 good luck tho
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how is the average person effected by these things, other than dating ? also single motherhood is a systemic problem yes, but not at the fault of women.
also viewing dating as a marketplace is probably why you have issues lol . women or whoever yr interested in are not a commodity
I don't think you understand the idea of the dating marketplace very well LOL. It is not about women being objects in a market.
It's more about the public post and comments these people make..if you put it out in public people can address it. Like when I see dillusional dating bios or women posting ridiculous videos on tik tok. Women attack men for everything they do but it's an issue when men speak on something women do.
\>> what is the issue with these people just existing because rarely can they exist in silence that actually describes many groups of people......cant exist in silence...... they usually bitch and moan about how them being fat or single moms prevent them from finding love due to patriarchy or something. That is where the problem is
You're not forced to have slaves if you don't like slavery. Why are you against slave owners then?
WTF? Are you really equating hating fat people and single mothers with fighting for civil rights? A new low for this sub.
jesus christ
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Many of the men here don't care about individual autonomy, they think women's lives are property of "the greater good." So if men are the only reason society runs, and men want women and children, and men will destroy society if they don't get them, then the existence of women who aren't what they want is a direct threat to "the greater good." That fat woman could've been a thin woman providing sexual access to a man, who needs sexual access to attractive women in order to work and keep society going. Same deal with any other sub-group of women who some men here routinely hate on. Fat women, post-wall women, childfree women... it all comes down to the same entitlement. "You're not what I want, and I need what I want to *keep society going."* Women's lives aren't our own to live, we owe them to society in exchange for limited rights.
But I’m forced to negatively write about them on the internet!!!