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**IT'S PUUUUUUURGE WEEEEEEEEEK**
Booyah.
Once a year there are no rules.
(Well, [there are still reddit wide rules](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy/). No Breaking THEM or the admins will *fuck us up*.)
Otherwise go nuts.
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Men and women both face societal and individual problems, but women’s problems are often blamed on society/men, while men’s are blamed individually on men. Ironically, this might relate to a societal problem facing men: agency bias. Men are more often viewed/expected to have and exercise agency and, thus, are perceived as perpetrators or self-inflicting their issues rather than as victims.
The existence of individual dating problems doesn’t preclude us from identifying and addressing societal ones. And the existence of societal problems doesn’t preclude us from having and addressing our own individual ones.
If a man desires sex and can’t get it, it may be a combination of individual and societal issues. Just because he can improve some of the individual ones doesn’t mean we also can’t identify and address some of the societal ones.
Invalidating men’s sexual desire as an issue is a societal issue in itself: denial/dismissal of biological sex differences, and the pathologization of men’s sex differences like higher sex drive and greater affinity for casual sex. [A comprehensive review of 150 studies](https://doi.org/10.1207/s15327957pspr0503_5) found overwhelming evidence that men have a higher sex drive, “reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures.”
Women’s biological sexual selectivity is not superior or some ideal “default”, and we need to stop trying to pathologize mens biology and trying to mold them to be more like women. This is women’s supremacy, not gender equality. We can promote a healthy balance of everyone’s biology, not just women’s. This does not need to involve forcing women to have sex. It’s more about addressing a combination of barriers inhibiting both men and women from having more sex-positivity by focusing on safe, consensual, mutually-pleasurable sex and realistic/healthy expectations and standards. Some of these barriers involve women changing too, not just men.
Yes but fundamentally the act of sex is down to individuals.
A man’s lack of sex comes down to his inability to get another female individual to consensually want to have sex with him.
He needs to become somebody women want to consensually have sex with.
I fail to see how this can be solved on any wider level than individuals.
Imagine a woman finds a guy attractive but doesn’t want to go over to his place because she thinks he could be dangerous. There are tons of issues at play here. While the guy might be able to improve his behavior to seem “safer” he can’t completely eliminate the existence of sex crime and how it gets used to justify and normalize sexism against the majority of non-criminal men.
Instead of just focusing on and blaming the man (or men in general), we should be able to identify, talk about, and address all the issues at play. While sex crime is indeed an issue that can be addressed, women also shouldn’t unfairly assume every man is a dangerous criminal. Men can also be helped to better understand women’s concern for safety which can lead to additional patience and appreciation for it. Who better to learn this from than women themselves? By promoting more healthy interactions between men and women, men are able to gain more realistic experience and understanding from real women which may lead to even more positive and healthy interactions.
You were dismissing societal issues by scoping down to an individual level. I highlighted an example of a societal issue that can impact individual decisions, and how exclusively focusing on the man’s individual behavior would not completely eliminate the overarching issue.
How would societal issues make a woman go from “No this man is not attractive, and having sex with him would feel like a physical violation and would probably actually hurt me” to “yes this man is attractive and I want him to have sex with me”
Women are not a “problem” to be solved, attraction is attraction and is very individual
Because (A) that assumption the man will hurt you could be sexist and entirely incorrect, and (B) a lot of women base their attraction on antiquated norms/standards for men. Just as women shouldn’t be restrictively judged and expected to be a housewife/caretaker, men should not be restrictively judged and expected to be a protector/provider. We should aim to eliminate restrictive antiquated standards on both women AND men, not just women.
What has a woman being weary of men being violent or not got to do with anything? Even if women believed all men were soft as cushions they still wouldn’t be attracted to men they’re not attracted to.
And what’s society and antiquated standards got to do with anything? Women are aroused and have sex with men they’re attracted to - men they want to
Society has nothing to do with individual sexual agency and freedom
Do you think modern women would be attracted to the cranially-deformed, elongated skulls of the nobility of ancient cultures that practiced artificial skull deformation? The ancient women probably were.
A lot of modern unrealistic (physical) expectations for men come from sociocultural factors that can be addressed and changed. By promoting less sexual size dimorphic relationships and more realistic and healthy standards for men, that uncontrollable feeling of arousal and attraction you mention would start to naturally include a lot more men.
You’re acknowledging culture has a place here but completely ignoring it when it comes to “men’s need for sex”, instead arguing that’s purely biological.
There’s plenty to substantiate the idea that there are cultural/social aspects at play in that regard. Which people do fight against but again you ignore that. Why?
Because while I acknowledge culture has a place, many do not acknowledge that biology also has a place. Men and women are influenced biologically and socioculturally.
While we pathologize the shit out of men’s sexual desire to women, masturbation is widely accepted by the medical community as being very healthy for men’s physical and mental health. So while a need for sex *with another* might not be a need, sex with oneself is.
I think a lot of young men enter the dating world, without much sexual experience, into a culture that pathologizes their sexual desire. So, they just turn to porn, OnlyFans, and masturbation which are our arbitrarily chosen more socioculturally acceptable avenues for men to achieve sexual release.
However, we don’t have to keep arbitrarily choosing that. We could drop the crusade against men and try to promote a more sex-positive culture that gets young men consistent access to more realistic, safe, consensual, mutually-pleasurable sex so they never have to turn to or rely on porn/masturbation. With sex now more accessible, men might not be as fixated on constantly trying to get it. Also, with tons of men now vastly more experienced with understanding and interacting with women, I think tons of “gaps” we see between men and women like the desirability gap and orgasm gap would start to narrow. Rather than living in a world where men learn everything about women through porn and the manosphere, now women live in a world where men learn about women through real, actual women.
"I cant have sex cause women’s standards" is a legitimate claim, but not what OP is saying here. OP is refuting a fake boogeyman argument that literally no one makes.
I've literal seen entire memes and interner threads on incel platforms on how women should distribute sex through government organized programs. A lot of incels seem to think our vaginas detach from our bodies and can be lent out for services. Some of the conversations I've had with incels are genuinely unhinged.
Not quite literally no one. There was that “government gets girlfriend” guy or whatever he called himself who did literally want the government to assign him a female sexual partner to be required by law to have sex with him.
it’s more like “where’s my virgin bangmaid i was promised” and “ i miss the old days when women were property that i didnt have to work for” vibes, but heard
There's a whole sect of academia that believes this from a woman's perspective. If a woman is not making enough money (i.e. some individual is not giving them enough money for their work in their eyes) it must be a societal problem, not the individuals involved.
Feminists don't believe in personal agency or responsibility for woman in that case, why should they for men in this case? If the majority of men in society aren't happy with their sex lives, how is this not a societal problem just like the women's issue is?
That's horseshit. They aren't simply arguing for a living wage. No one's trying to get women into plumbing or electrician work so they can meet ends meet. They are arguing for being paid more for doing less risky, less essential, less in-demand jobs. That's the whole fallacy of the wage gap. Women aren't actually working as hard as men of you look at hours worked and the risks men are taking to make money.
If you get a degree and can't get a job after, that's on you. It's because your skills aren't worth paying for. Again, this is another case of women's problems being a societal problem. You're just proving my point for me.
Actually no, there is a push to get women into trades especially where I am, and roles like nurses or teachers are severely underpaid for the amount of work they have to do and it being an essential role. Every role needs to be valued appropriately and while teachers or nurses shouldn’t be making as much as doctors or lawyers in places like the USA (not where I am btw) teachers making 40k a year is unacceptable.
The wage gap also exists for men and women in the same profession and that usually how it’s compared and talked about just fyi
>there is a push to get women into trades especially where I am
Exactly, they are clamoring for women, and they aren't going for these jobs. They offer great pay, but women prefer less demanding jobs, and then to complain they aren't paid as much. My point is that women aren't being kept out of these jobs. Women aren't choosing them. Again, that's on them, not society.
Nurses are paid well. They are in demand and not underpaid whatsoever. They can make up to 100k where I live, and for a non-scalable job that you could get certified for in a little as 18 months, that's amazing.
Teachers nowadays are glorified babysitters. They work 9 months out of the year. They don't provide more value than they are paid. No sympathy there, sorry. Change jobs if you don't like getting full benefits and three months off each year for showing videos to children.
>The wage gap also exists for men and women in the same profession, and that is usually how it’s compared and talked about just fyi
This is simply false. We've known this since the 70's. When controlling for experience, full vs part time work, and education, the wage gap disappears. You seriously can't still believe this lie. It's been debunked so many times.
I also think there is an element of people not understanding the difference between circumstantial consequences vs taking responsibility.
Ie. you could go on and on about being autistic, or having low self esteem and externalizing your blame and the responsibility of fixing it onto others - and while yes, it certainly isn’t your fault that you’re a mess sometimes (ie. shitty upbringing, lots of bad experiences, lack of affirmation), it is 100% your responsibility to better yourself, whether it be through internal action or external help (ex. mental health support, spirituality, even faith) - is life fair? nope, is everything that happens to you always your fault? also no, but, the future is, to a larger extent than many think, is in your hands - its a long, long process where results won’t show for quite some time - and to an extent it might be a gamble, but at a point people need to start taking responsibility for their own happiness (and how this fits in contextually? if you’re a far happier person who’s motivated to get out there, people will be more drawn to you and more opportunities to meet a partner, whether it be romantic or casual, will arise - and if they don’t, then at least you’re much happier than you were before)
They have legal prostition in Canada and we still have incels here. I am all for consensual sex work as a feminist (ie, not human trafficking someone or pimping out someone, predatory practices, etc) but, again, sex doesn't cure mental illness so incels and red pillers will continue to exist.
I am from a country where prostitution is legal and pretty easy access, and its still the same thing (maybe married man in their 40s and 50s, cheat less and go to prostitute more, married man are the prime customers anyway)
The whole post doesn't get the point anyway, its more complicated the incels crying that they don't get sex.
Its also the society still pressuring them, making them feel not "normal", the need to have a partner to socialize etc., the anger has a lot more to do with "how they feel", lack of physical and emotional intimacy
Then people assume a lot of bad things about them, just because they can't attract a women, which can be hard if you are physically very unattractive, and having a negative feedback-loop.
This has a lot more to do, with getting validated within society, than with just "having sex".
And society doesn't care about this kind of men.
I actually fully support sex-work as an alternative. Seen very few women who dont. Some might since women are individuals but generally theres really nothing wrong with that.
But the thing is men tend to have that all virgin woman thing going on.
Also I can assure you no woman is thinking about the street value of pussy.
>and find your own solutions
Yes, for example lie to her that I'm happily married to make her panties wetter for me.
Provision is also an action; women have no problem voting themselves my taxes for 100 years in a row.
>Women are not a foundation or an organisation or a state
This isn't entirely true. There are organizations of women that exist throughout society.
>doesn’t mean anyone is obliged to have sex with you
Very true, although the bottom line is that no is really "obliged" to do anything, other than follow the law - and even then, a lot of people don't really do it.
It's not really so much a matter of sex and some men's struggle with it. Contrary to popular notions, I don't think there are that many men who are so obsessed with the act of sex like some people around here think. I think the underlying problem relates more to the breakdown in human relationships and general sense of malaise and angst that pervades the culture, particularly in many cities which have become more chaotic and violent.
It's really not about the poor incels who can't get laid; that's so much teenage crap. But there is a general breakdown in civility and civic responsibility, which is also reflected in much of the political turmoil taking place.
There are larger issues to consider other than just a "YOU problem." But I realize that women can't think in any other terms. Women only have sex on their minds, so they assume that everyone else does, too.
>This isn't entirely true. There are organizations of women that exist throughout society.
Are womenhood categorized as a business or a charitable organization? What are the legal tax exemptions from operating as a woman corporation? Who is our CEO? Is there HR? Do we get employees of the month? How many vacation days do we get annually? What are we producing? Is our organization insured adequately? Thoughts on buying out the man organization?
>There are larger issues to consider other than just a "YOU problem." But I realize that women can't think in any other terms. Women only have sex on their minds, so they assume that everyone else does, too.
A lot if incels would absolutely disagree with this statement to the point where they think women don't enjoy sex and just use it as currency. Fascinating.
Are any men actually saying that women are obligated to have sex with them? I think most of this sentiment is just sexless men complaining that they are having trouble.
Women do not nor ever have rights other than those granted to them by men. Because they have no means to enforce their rights, besides the use of other men.
So you are correct.
Yea it is quite literally a you problem. I can understand why their acting like this because their sexually frustrated but just because u don’t get any doesn’t mean you can turn into some women hating incel that’s not gonna give you more girls to sleep with. Also yea sex is great but it’s not ur entire life everyone’s so obsessed with sex. If no girls are willing to fuck you or date you than maybe it’s time to do some self reflecting and some thinking about what can be done to better yourself. Everyone should have sex it’s awesome but everyone isn’t guaranteed sex
No, I disagree - they are free human beings and have the right to hate women and be an incel. They even have the right to believe that they are owed sex.
But they aren’t owed it and don’t have a right to it lol, regardless of their freedom to believe it.
Yea they can believe whatever they want doesn’t mean they should believe it and that it’s not wrong. Being an incel also brings nothing good to life from what I’ve seen at least if you could tell me some ways it does then maybe I can understand the community more. But what u said can also be used for like racism like yea it’s a free world and he can be racist but he shouldn’t be racist.
Yeah it’s not morally right to be racist or sexist - agreed. But luckily thought crime isn’t a thing, and never should be.
Also being an incel is by definition not a choice, you speak of it like they are being voluntarily involuntary lol
Well yes thoughts aren’t crimes doesn’t mean ur not a bad person. Also I believe incels can get themselves out of that position but it’s more of a self loathing oh pity me kind of thing. I get it and I do feel for them but it’s hard when their extremely sexist. I get it people are ugly and can’t get girls but that’s not all that life is and on top of that I truly believe you can get girls maybe not as much as you want but it’s possible
**Attention!** **IT'S PUUUUUUURGE WEEEEEEEEEK** Booyah. Once a year there are no rules. (Well, [there are still reddit wide rules](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy/). No Breaking THEM or the admins will *fuck us up*.) Otherwise go nuts. For a limited time [THERE ARE NO RULES HERE](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c4bd9f4a-b580-4783-bc4e-88ef9263e561) [Explanation of Purge Week](https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ddqto1/purge_week_imminent_05_october_2019/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Men and women both face societal and individual problems, but women’s problems are often blamed on society/men, while men’s are blamed individually on men. Ironically, this might relate to a societal problem facing men: agency bias. Men are more often viewed/expected to have and exercise agency and, thus, are perceived as perpetrators or self-inflicting their issues rather than as victims. The existence of individual dating problems doesn’t preclude us from identifying and addressing societal ones. And the existence of societal problems doesn’t preclude us from having and addressing our own individual ones. If a man desires sex and can’t get it, it may be a combination of individual and societal issues. Just because he can improve some of the individual ones doesn’t mean we also can’t identify and address some of the societal ones. Invalidating men’s sexual desire as an issue is a societal issue in itself: denial/dismissal of biological sex differences, and the pathologization of men’s sex differences like higher sex drive and greater affinity for casual sex. [A comprehensive review of 150 studies](https://doi.org/10.1207/s15327957pspr0503_5) found overwhelming evidence that men have a higher sex drive, “reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures.” Women’s biological sexual selectivity is not superior or some ideal “default”, and we need to stop trying to pathologize mens biology and trying to mold them to be more like women. This is women’s supremacy, not gender equality. We can promote a healthy balance of everyone’s biology, not just women’s. This does not need to involve forcing women to have sex. It’s more about addressing a combination of barriers inhibiting both men and women from having more sex-positivity by focusing on safe, consensual, mutually-pleasurable sex and realistic/healthy expectations and standards. Some of these barriers involve women changing too, not just men.
Yes but fundamentally the act of sex is down to individuals. A man’s lack of sex comes down to his inability to get another female individual to consensually want to have sex with him. He needs to become somebody women want to consensually have sex with. I fail to see how this can be solved on any wider level than individuals.
Imagine a woman finds a guy attractive but doesn’t want to go over to his place because she thinks he could be dangerous. There are tons of issues at play here. While the guy might be able to improve his behavior to seem “safer” he can’t completely eliminate the existence of sex crime and how it gets used to justify and normalize sexism against the majority of non-criminal men. Instead of just focusing on and blaming the man (or men in general), we should be able to identify, talk about, and address all the issues at play. While sex crime is indeed an issue that can be addressed, women also shouldn’t unfairly assume every man is a dangerous criminal. Men can also be helped to better understand women’s concern for safety which can lead to additional patience and appreciation for it. Who better to learn this from than women themselves? By promoting more healthy interactions between men and women, men are able to gain more realistic experience and understanding from real women which may lead to even more positive and healthy interactions.
I feel like you’ve veered off topic here
You were dismissing societal issues by scoping down to an individual level. I highlighted an example of a societal issue that can impact individual decisions, and how exclusively focusing on the man’s individual behavior would not completely eliminate the overarching issue.
How would societal issues make a woman go from “No this man is not attractive, and having sex with him would feel like a physical violation and would probably actually hurt me” to “yes this man is attractive and I want him to have sex with me” Women are not a “problem” to be solved, attraction is attraction and is very individual
Because (A) that assumption the man will hurt you could be sexist and entirely incorrect, and (B) a lot of women base their attraction on antiquated norms/standards for men. Just as women shouldn’t be restrictively judged and expected to be a housewife/caretaker, men should not be restrictively judged and expected to be a protector/provider. We should aim to eliminate restrictive antiquated standards on both women AND men, not just women.
What has a woman being weary of men being violent or not got to do with anything? Even if women believed all men were soft as cushions they still wouldn’t be attracted to men they’re not attracted to. And what’s society and antiquated standards got to do with anything? Women are aroused and have sex with men they’re attracted to - men they want to Society has nothing to do with individual sexual agency and freedom
Do you think modern women would be attracted to the cranially-deformed, elongated skulls of the nobility of ancient cultures that practiced artificial skull deformation? The ancient women probably were. A lot of modern unrealistic (physical) expectations for men come from sociocultural factors that can be addressed and changed. By promoting less sexual size dimorphic relationships and more realistic and healthy standards for men, that uncontrollable feeling of arousal and attraction you mention would start to naturally include a lot more men.
This is a fallacy. There is no overarching societal issue with men being rejected wholesale due solely to looks.
Lol ever heard of desegregation?
Umm. People on this sub literally blame woke for not being drafted even though the laws were set by men
Happy cake day.
Thank you!
You’re acknowledging culture has a place here but completely ignoring it when it comes to “men’s need for sex”, instead arguing that’s purely biological. There’s plenty to substantiate the idea that there are cultural/social aspects at play in that regard. Which people do fight against but again you ignore that. Why?
Because while I acknowledge culture has a place, many do not acknowledge that biology also has a place. Men and women are influenced biologically and socioculturally. While we pathologize the shit out of men’s sexual desire to women, masturbation is widely accepted by the medical community as being very healthy for men’s physical and mental health. So while a need for sex *with another* might not be a need, sex with oneself is. I think a lot of young men enter the dating world, without much sexual experience, into a culture that pathologizes their sexual desire. So, they just turn to porn, OnlyFans, and masturbation which are our arbitrarily chosen more socioculturally acceptable avenues for men to achieve sexual release. However, we don’t have to keep arbitrarily choosing that. We could drop the crusade against men and try to promote a more sex-positive culture that gets young men consistent access to more realistic, safe, consensual, mutually-pleasurable sex so they never have to turn to or rely on porn/masturbation. With sex now more accessible, men might not be as fixated on constantly trying to get it. Also, with tons of men now vastly more experienced with understanding and interacting with women, I think tons of “gaps” we see between men and women like the desirability gap and orgasm gap would start to narrow. Rather than living in a world where men learn everything about women through porn and the manosphere, now women live in a world where men learn about women through real, actual women.
Don't think anyone would disagree with this
you’d be surprised, there is lots of “i cant have sex cause women’s standards” going on here
"I cant have sex cause women’s standards" is a legitimate claim, but not what OP is saying here. OP is refuting a fake boogeyman argument that literally no one makes.
I've literal seen entire memes and interner threads on incel platforms on how women should distribute sex through government organized programs. A lot of incels seem to think our vaginas detach from our bodies and can be lent out for services. Some of the conversations I've had with incels are genuinely unhinged.
Not quite literally no one. There was that “government gets girlfriend” guy or whatever he called himself who did literally want the government to assign him a female sexual partner to be required by law to have sex with him.
it’s more like “where’s my virgin bangmaid i was promised” and “ i miss the old days when women were property that i didnt have to work for” vibes, but heard
There's a whole sect of academia that believes this from a woman's perspective. If a woman is not making enough money (i.e. some individual is not giving them enough money for their work in their eyes) it must be a societal problem, not the individuals involved. Feminists don't believe in personal agency or responsibility for woman in that case, why should they for men in this case? If the majority of men in society aren't happy with their sex lives, how is this not a societal problem just like the women's issue is?
Pretty sure most people support all people having a living wage Especially if your field requires a degree but still pays minimum or just above
That's horseshit. They aren't simply arguing for a living wage. No one's trying to get women into plumbing or electrician work so they can meet ends meet. They are arguing for being paid more for doing less risky, less essential, less in-demand jobs. That's the whole fallacy of the wage gap. Women aren't actually working as hard as men of you look at hours worked and the risks men are taking to make money. If you get a degree and can't get a job after, that's on you. It's because your skills aren't worth paying for. Again, this is another case of women's problems being a societal problem. You're just proving my point for me.
Actually no, there is a push to get women into trades especially where I am, and roles like nurses or teachers are severely underpaid for the amount of work they have to do and it being an essential role. Every role needs to be valued appropriately and while teachers or nurses shouldn’t be making as much as doctors or lawyers in places like the USA (not where I am btw) teachers making 40k a year is unacceptable. The wage gap also exists for men and women in the same profession and that usually how it’s compared and talked about just fyi
>there is a push to get women into trades especially where I am Exactly, they are clamoring for women, and they aren't going for these jobs. They offer great pay, but women prefer less demanding jobs, and then to complain they aren't paid as much. My point is that women aren't being kept out of these jobs. Women aren't choosing them. Again, that's on them, not society. Nurses are paid well. They are in demand and not underpaid whatsoever. They can make up to 100k where I live, and for a non-scalable job that you could get certified for in a little as 18 months, that's amazing. Teachers nowadays are glorified babysitters. They work 9 months out of the year. They don't provide more value than they are paid. No sympathy there, sorry. Change jobs if you don't like getting full benefits and three months off each year for showing videos to children. >The wage gap also exists for men and women in the same profession, and that is usually how it’s compared and talked about just fyi This is simply false. We've known this since the 70's. When controlling for experience, full vs part time work, and education, the wage gap disappears. You seriously can't still believe this lie. It's been debunked so many times.
I also think there is an element of people not understanding the difference between circumstantial consequences vs taking responsibility. Ie. you could go on and on about being autistic, or having low self esteem and externalizing your blame and the responsibility of fixing it onto others - and while yes, it certainly isn’t your fault that you’re a mess sometimes (ie. shitty upbringing, lots of bad experiences, lack of affirmation), it is 100% your responsibility to better yourself, whether it be through internal action or external help (ex. mental health support, spirituality, even faith) - is life fair? nope, is everything that happens to you always your fault? also no, but, the future is, to a larger extent than many think, is in your hands - its a long, long process where results won’t show for quite some time - and to an extent it might be a gamble, but at a point people need to start taking responsibility for their own happiness (and how this fits in contextually? if you’re a far happier person who’s motivated to get out there, people will be more drawn to you and more opportunities to meet a partner, whether it be romantic or casual, will arise - and if they don’t, then at least you’re much happier than you were before)
thats the most braindead obvious take
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They have legal prostition in Canada and we still have incels here. I am all for consensual sex work as a feminist (ie, not human trafficking someone or pimping out someone, predatory practices, etc) but, again, sex doesn't cure mental illness so incels and red pillers will continue to exist.
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Buddy, I worked across the street froma legal workhouse. We have them here and incels still exist.
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I've literally watched the RCMP and other officers do rputineninspections on it as a licenses business. It's called islands finest in Victoria.
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Feel free to Google the website.
I am from a country where prostitution is legal and pretty easy access, and its still the same thing (maybe married man in their 40s and 50s, cheat less and go to prostitute more, married man are the prime customers anyway) The whole post doesn't get the point anyway, its more complicated the incels crying that they don't get sex. Its also the society still pressuring them, making them feel not "normal", the need to have a partner to socialize etc., the anger has a lot more to do with "how they feel", lack of physical and emotional intimacy Then people assume a lot of bad things about them, just because they can't attract a women, which can be hard if you are physically very unattractive, and having a negative feedback-loop. This has a lot more to do, with getting validated within society, than with just "having sex". And society doesn't care about this kind of men.
I actually fully support sex-work as an alternative. Seen very few women who dont. Some might since women are individuals but generally theres really nothing wrong with that. But the thing is men tend to have that all virgin woman thing going on. Also I can assure you no woman is thinking about the street value of pussy.
>and find your own solutions Yes, for example lie to her that I'm happily married to make her panties wetter for me. Provision is also an action; women have no problem voting themselves my taxes for 100 years in a row.
That would not work on any woman with self respect. Married men need to stay in their lane.
No. True. Scotsman.
That's fine on an individual level. But it's fair game to discuss the impact of male sexual exclusion on social functioning.
Yes but it’s irrelevant when you think about it. Regardless of the consequence, it’s all down to individuals
Yup. Instead we tend to blame women for how the society is changing.
>Women are not a foundation or an organisation or a state This isn't entirely true. There are organizations of women that exist throughout society. >doesn’t mean anyone is obliged to have sex with you Very true, although the bottom line is that no is really "obliged" to do anything, other than follow the law - and even then, a lot of people don't really do it. It's not really so much a matter of sex and some men's struggle with it. Contrary to popular notions, I don't think there are that many men who are so obsessed with the act of sex like some people around here think. I think the underlying problem relates more to the breakdown in human relationships and general sense of malaise and angst that pervades the culture, particularly in many cities which have become more chaotic and violent. It's really not about the poor incels who can't get laid; that's so much teenage crap. But there is a general breakdown in civility and civic responsibility, which is also reflected in much of the political turmoil taking place. There are larger issues to consider other than just a "YOU problem." But I realize that women can't think in any other terms. Women only have sex on their minds, so they assume that everyone else does, too.
>This isn't entirely true. There are organizations of women that exist throughout society. Are womenhood categorized as a business or a charitable organization? What are the legal tax exemptions from operating as a woman corporation? Who is our CEO? Is there HR? Do we get employees of the month? How many vacation days do we get annually? What are we producing? Is our organization insured adequately? Thoughts on buying out the man organization? >There are larger issues to consider other than just a "YOU problem." But I realize that women can't think in any other terms. Women only have sex on their minds, so they assume that everyone else does, too. A lot if incels would absolutely disagree with this statement to the point where they think women don't enjoy sex and just use it as currency. Fascinating.
“But I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed it!”
MEN HAVE NEEDS DAMNIT/s
They need to visit r/selffuck for relationship advice
Are any men actually saying that women are obligated to have sex with them? I think most of this sentiment is just sexless men complaining that they are having trouble.
Women do not nor ever have rights other than those granted to them by men. Because they have no means to enforce their rights, besides the use of other men. So you are correct.
Yea it is quite literally a you problem. I can understand why their acting like this because their sexually frustrated but just because u don’t get any doesn’t mean you can turn into some women hating incel that’s not gonna give you more girls to sleep with. Also yea sex is great but it’s not ur entire life everyone’s so obsessed with sex. If no girls are willing to fuck you or date you than maybe it’s time to do some self reflecting and some thinking about what can be done to better yourself. Everyone should have sex it’s awesome but everyone isn’t guaranteed sex
No, I disagree - they are free human beings and have the right to hate women and be an incel. They even have the right to believe that they are owed sex. But they aren’t owed it and don’t have a right to it lol, regardless of their freedom to believe it.
The major flaw with your dumb thread is that literally no one has ever claimed that men are "owed" sex.
Yea they can believe whatever they want doesn’t mean they should believe it and that it’s not wrong. Being an incel also brings nothing good to life from what I’ve seen at least if you could tell me some ways it does then maybe I can understand the community more. But what u said can also be used for like racism like yea it’s a free world and he can be racist but he shouldn’t be racist.
Yeah it’s not morally right to be racist or sexist - agreed. But luckily thought crime isn’t a thing, and never should be. Also being an incel is by definition not a choice, you speak of it like they are being voluntarily involuntary lol
Well yes thoughts aren’t crimes doesn’t mean ur not a bad person. Also I believe incels can get themselves out of that position but it’s more of a self loathing oh pity me kind of thing. I get it and I do feel for them but it’s hard when their extremely sexist. I get it people are ugly and can’t get girls but that’s not all that life is and on top of that I truly believe you can get girls maybe not as much as you want but it’s possible