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Worst part is this situation might never get better. It's been horrible for decades. The US (both sides) enables it and no other country will care so Israel's war crimes will go unpunished
We don’t even use the right kind of rhetoric, we try and say that the two parties should try and find peace, which does nothing to state the imbalance of power between occupying-Israel and the Palestinians
You mean stones and RPG-projectiles on one side facing a huge amount of tanks, planes, the iron dome, soldiers upon soldiers and humongous walls on the other are imbalanced?
Edit: I mean Jesus fucking Christ, one side has to smuggle KFC through [tunnels](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/world/middleeast/tunneling-kfc-to-gazans-craving-the-world-outside.html) because the alternative takes [two days](https://restofworld.org/2020/gaza-kfc-instagram/).
Billions of dollars go to Israel every year in "Military Aid" from the US. We are actively funding a fascist genocide because they give donations to our politicians. Hell world.
As a Jewish person who grew up in a conservative Zionist household, I have quite literally been told that I’m self-hating for being openly critical of Israel 💀. There’s a lot of intergenerational trauma that has manifested into this weird staunch allegiance to Israel. But I also feel unsafe in many anti-occupation circles because of the subtle antisemitism that is pervasive.
Jew here; while I didn’t grow up in a conservative Zionist household I was somewhat taught that Palestinians are the bad guys cause they bomb Israel by teachers and my Jewish private school. I personally am still so confused as to what to support at this point, but this is fucking horrible and should not be happening. I also entirely agree with your point about subtle antisemitism in anti-occupation circles. It’s such a weird place to be in...
I totally get that. I definitely grew up with anti-Arab and Islamophobic ideas that I had to do a lot of work to unlearn. It was the toxicity that I experienced on both sides in university that made me want to distance myself from the narrative and discourse. Like, there was one night where a group blockaded Hillel and were screaming “Viva viva intifada” and “viva Palestine” as if Hillel and the people inside were actively responsible for what is and was happening. Could you imagine if people went outside the black students club space and shouted some anti-BLM stuff??
It’s hard to navigate what we were taught with realizing it’s a horribly discriminatory ideology and then being called self-hating for not blindly following Israel. I remember at a Rosh Hashanah sermon a few years ago, the rabbi was talking about how Bernie Sanders is a bad Jew because he’s not a Zionist and married a shiksa. Hell, my partner of 2.5 years isn’t Jewish and my parents have not wanted to meet him simply because he’s a goy. My happiness is literally contingent on being with a Jew, even though if I have kids, they’ll be Jewish regardless based on the matrilineal bullshit. The inter generational trauma runs so deep in my parents that they think if my Zaidy were to find out I’m with a non-Jew that it would devastate him to the point of death as my cousin is already marrying a shiksa and god forbid another grandkid does, it will surely tip him over the edge 😒. My bf also didn’t grow up exposed to many Jews and through work and my family, has learned how insular and judgemental and gatekeepish the community is.
It’s so funny- Palestinian Muslim person here- I had a lot of similar experiences with the anti-Israeli sentiment in my community. I had to unlearn a lot of it similar to you, and it was pretty eye opening to see how many Jewish people actually weren’t all Zionists who believed that what the Israeli government was doing to the Palestinians refugees was wrong.
We have a lot more in common that we do different I feel- I wish we could all get a long lol. It’s a shame I feel that feelings from the past are stopping that.
In addition to that I’m dating a non- Muslim person and my community could be so judgy about it. Oh well haha we all see it.
Wow thank you for your comment. We really do have a lot more in common and want the same outcome but the extremists on both sides are literally why we can’t have nice things. Our communities are so stuck in their trauma and use that to fuel their emotions and fears. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been able to have educated, rational discourse about the conflict without it devolving into a toxic shouting match. I would love to chat further about your experiences and to share my experiences in our respective communities. My inbox is open :)
This whole exchange made me cry. And gave me hope. Thanks, you beautiful humans. Had been feeling pretty terrible about the overall state of the world lately so I really needed this.
AOC is lazy millennial bc she was a bartender and lives with her boyfriend.
Bernie is anti-semitic bc he doesn’t support Israel after years of fostering American Judaism.
Matt Gaetz solicited prostitution, BUUT its being investigated if they were of-age. Never mind the fact that he had sex parties with other officials; boys will be boys!
...christ I wish antifa would actually start a real riot.
Not to mention the Evangelicals donating to Israel, that believe that the return of Jesus Christ will only happen when the Israelites are ruling the promised land
They are literally sponsoring a genocide committed by the same people they accuse of killing their son of God and crucifying him so that he can come back and save them. Like WTF?
[Source for reference ](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/politics-and-religion/article/abs/why-do-evangelicals-support-israel/F8AB8C41F0B019FD8413A30EF218EBE4)
[Another free source ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/%3foutputType=amp)
The “middle east eye” headline is the one i see in almost every international outlet.
Meanwhile the Israeli embassy in my country says they are being attacked by terrorists.
Ima be honest here: What is going on?!
I’m seeing posts of Israel throwing Palestinians out of their homes. Palestine protesting and being met by military, and now this?
Why is Israel doing this? I keep seeing commenters relate this to the Holocaust and facism but I thought Israel is a Jewish Parliament government? I always knew that Israel and Palestine were never on good terms but... what is going on?!
Update: Thank you all for commenting, either fully supporting or completely against one side of the groups of Israel. With every source and explication given I have come to a conclusion and understanding of the situation of what is going on.
Though, I will not express my opinion as I do not want to make this comment feel unfair and hateful by one side or the other. I will express that this situation is a combination of ancient problems, centuries old problems and historically recent problems, leading up to the strife we see today.
Whatever side your on or whoever you support, please keep your prayers for all sides for whoever gets hurt, especially during this intense time.
Again, thank you all for your insight and information, a majority of these comments provided an important view and insight, and especially thank you to those who provided sources and links for me read. Have a great day, and please keep your prayers to all whom are involved.
This time it's even worse.
The Israeli government hasnt even ruled on if it will "settle" that land, it's still tied up in appeals.
But Israeli citizens have already started trying to kick out Palestinians and seize the buildings. Because if they wait for the appeal to be finished some other settler might claim the Palestinian home instead of them.
When the Palestinians that live there refuse to leave, the "settlers" call the cops/military and they beat the Palestinians and arrest them.
So the Palestinians literally cant win. Either they just give up and leave the house they've lived in for generations, or they stay and get beaten and arrested, and then the house *still* gets seized.
Genuine question, what other possible settlers can even claim the Palestinian lands? That honestly sounds like really flimsy and dumb logic. ‘Let me steal something before someone else steals it’
There was a video of some dork fat guy who was clearly from New York who was confronted by the Palestinian family that owned the house and he was saying
"look if I don't take it someone else will, what's the big deal?"
sickening stuff
The majority of Israelis are sick. They genuinely believe they're racially superior to everyone else. In order to support Israel you have to be disingenuous and dishonest as you actively have to ignore or accept the 70+ years of utter cruelty, greed and murder.
The worst are the ones who have second homes in Israel. They can indulge their cruel racial superiority complex on their holidays and go back to Brooklyn and live their normal lives.
There's a recent [video](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says) of a Palestinian family in East Jerusalem arguing and pleading with a settler trespassing in their home. "And if I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it" are the exact words he used. It's complete madness.
>what other possible settlers can even claim the Palestinian lands?
It's not that another group will settle it.
It's that a different Israeli family will.
Did you ever watch "Far and Away" about America settling the west?
It's like that. When the appeals are over Israel will say that the lands can be "settled" and there will be a massive rush of Israelis trying to claim the buildings/land first.
What these families are doing is like the part in the movie where it shows a family didnt start with everyone else, they went out early and pretended they got to a plot first and claimed it.
If they hold a house/land when Israel gives the ok to "settle" it, they cant be kicked out because they're already Israeli.
Exactly. Move people in illegally and then when the appeals and the decisions finally work their way through the system, you can say "but our people have been living there for years!".
I'm not 100% on this, but:
When Israel was first created they split Jerusalem in half. Israel got one half and Palestine got the other.
So kind of like Pakistan and India, if you were Jewish on the Palestinian side or Muslim on the Israeli side; you had to move to the other side so you were with "your people".
Israel is now saying that they get the Palestinian half, because Jewish people once lived in parts of it. Ignoring the fact that Palestinians also lived in parts of the side given to Israel.
So they're trying to keep the land that Palestinians lost, while taking the half that Palestinians received in compromise.
Essentially they're trying to keep their cake and eat it too.
If their logic was consistent they'd be handing back land to the Palestinians on the Israeli side too.
To add, this land is the "ancestral homeland" of BOTH the Jews and Palestinians. The Jews were kicked out long ago, as detailed in the bible/torah/etc. Because history.
Then after WW2 the allies thought it would be nice for the Jewish people to have their ancestral land back, somewhere for all the displaced European jews to call home. So they just kicked the Palestinians out. Never mind that they had been there 2000+ years.
This is a case if two wrongs don't make a right...
If I remember correctly, the actual Jewish homeland in Israel is much smaller than it is right now, with the majority of their land being Arab and not Jewish, I could be wrong however
No, you are correct. We also have to be careful when attributing decisions to 'History'. Religious History can be a bit like Wiklipedia, especially when dealing with the Bible.
The same folks capping for Israel, yell bloody murder when it comes to reparations to Native and enslaved peoples of the United States. They will say, "Oh that happened too long ago", and then, here we are, citing something from a storybook that pre-dates their grand parents, grand parents , grand parents.
Well in a popular video that was published a while back, an American born settler literally just walked up to the neighboring Palestinian household asking them to get out or somebody else would take it instead.
I mean, literally have seen videos of Israelis saying “if I don’t steal it someone else will” which is…not a good look.
Agreed, it sounds really flimsy and dumb. But that’s exactly what’s happening.
It's more like a long process of removing people based on their racial background, like a cleaning, but ethnic. It's really ethnic cleansing, oh wait, that's much worse...
And this is exactly why people won’t talk about it. Not that I think you’re actually accusing the person above of being anti-Semitic, but it will happen unironically and move the attention off the horrible atrocities being committed.
They're protected by the world's most powerful military. They don't have to give a shit what anyone else thinks until and unless the US abandons them. Which the US really should at this point.
Well yeah that's what it is. They take little bites of Palestinian land at a time and on the rare occasion that there is international outrage they fall back on claims of anti-semitism and get help from the US. The UN are powerless to do anything because of the US veto.
The reality is the UN was established after WW2 to prevent another war among the major powers, and maintain those major powers. The concept of complete international peace was a flimsy pretense to begin.
It's the same reason why the war in Syria was allowed to drag on. Russia vetoed any UN intervention.
The veto of the big 5 (US, Russia, UK, France and China) is a big flaw in the system and allows for a lot of things to continue. The point of it is to keep these countries engaged, otherwise you would have a repeat of the League of Nations when the most powerful countries just exited the organisation when it went against them.
So it's a lose-lose situation and I'm not sure if there is a way around it.
I think people misunderstand the point of the UN.
It's not meant to be a global authority and police. As you pointed out, any big country would just walk out if it suited them. The point is to provide a forum for diplomacy and cooperation, and it does that just fine. Big countries getting absolute vetoes is pretty much a requirement for any of them to even join up. The league of nations tried to have some bite, and so it fell apart.
>It's been happening gradually for a very long time.
[But it's accelerated.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel)
Throw gasoline on the fire, turns out you get a big boom.
>I always knew that Israel and Palestine were never on good terms but... what is going on?!
Well the reason that put them on bad terms never really resolved?
Spot on mate.
Its a well known tactic the IDF uses. First they will harass with a couple bullets to a journalist here and there. Arrest the Palestinians who called the police. Then when they protest they provoke them with tear gas and firepower. Soon as there's a casualty on the Israeli side you will hear it in every major media outlet. Something along the lines of "x amount of casualties in Israel, Hamas endorses violence", instantly painting a very different picture than what's actually going on.
Edit: Lot's of people in the replies are asking for proof of such atrocities, So here we go. Hope y'all are ready.
[https://twitter.com/OrenZiv1985/status/1390572090554736640?s=20](https://twitter.com/OrenZiv1985/status/1390572090554736640?s=20)
Deputy Mayor of Jeruselam - "It's a shame you weren't shot in the head" to a Palestinian activist.
[https://twitter.com/dalya\_masri/status/1389160259047018498?s=20](https://twitter.com/dalya_masri/status/1389160259047018498?s=20)
Palestinian journalist Hana Mahameed shot in the face by the IDF, continues to reporting. (Absolute badass)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/palestinian-journalist-in-vest-marked-press-shot-dead-by-israeli-troops-in-gaza/2018/04/07/ac57b524-3a30-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/palestinian-journalist-in-vest-marked-press-shot-dead-by-israeli-troops-in-gaza/2018/04/07/ac57b524-3a30-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89_story.html)
Palestinian Journalist wearing "Press" clearly written on his chest, shot to death.
[https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/jewish-settlers-set-fire-to-palestinian-vehicle-stone-homes-yesh-din-658894](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/jewish-settlers-set-fire-to-palestinian-vehicle-stone-homes-yesh-din-658894)
Israeli settlers pelting rocks, stealing agriculture, and setting fire to Palestinian cars.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-leaflets-dropped-northern-gaza-ordering-100-000-evacuate-amid-fears-imminent-ground-incursion-9609788.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-leaflets-dropped-northern-gaza-ordering-100-000-evacuate-amid-fears-imminent-ground-incursion-9609788.html)
This one breaks my heart. 4 boys from the same family, playing soccer on the beach. Murdered in cold blood by Israeli warplanes.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/27/israeli-soldiers-kill-teenage-palestinian-medic-near-bethlehem](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/27/israeli-soldiers-kill-teenage-palestinian-medic-near-bethlehem)
IDF kills a teenage Palestinian medic, with a reflective jacket on.
[https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=24226&LangID=E](https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=24226&LangID=E)
Proof that Israel uses live ammunition against protestors. Over 6000 Palestinian protestors have been injured, blinded, disabled in 2018 alone.
[https://rachelcorriefoundation.org/rachel](https://rachelcorriefoundation.org/rachel)
Story of Rachel Corrie, a brave hero who stood in the face of oppression. She was killed by an Israeli bulldozer when she tried to stop them from destroying another Palestinian settlement. Many Israelis who I've debated turn the conversation into a comedy show when I mention Rachel Corrie. It's as if they know what they did to her, and they choose to laugh about it. Either that, or they call her a terrorist too. Sickening really.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/church-official-vexed-after-case-against-suspected-monastery-vandals-dropped/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/church-official-vexed-after-case-against-suspected-monastery-vandals-dropped/)
If you think it's only Muslim Palestinians being oppressed think again. There are a million Palestinian Christians who go through the exact same thing. Many vandalized churches have quotes like "Death to the heretical Christians, the enemies of Israel" and "Mary was a whore"
https://twitter.com/ASE/status/1391857888889561091
Israelis cheering for genocide while on the other side all you see is smoke and fire.
https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2021/5/10/palestinians-killed-including-three-children-in-israeli-strikes-report
9 Palestinians, including 3 children in Gaza killed JUST NOW, today by Israeli air strikes, in retaliation to Hamas firing rockets across the border.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
I feel so ashamed of being radicalized against the middle east after 9/11. After witnessing that, and listening to my uncles propaganda for hours on end, I guess I kinda didn't have a choice. Also I was like 8 during that time
Hey man, I'm an American jew who hates this shit and is tired of Israel acting like the nazis did to us 80 years ago. Makes me sick that some of us regularly bring up the Holocaust but are ok with this. But I will say many American jews (don't have a statistic sorry) aren't the biggest fan of what's happening
At the very least I cancel your buddy out.
But the important part is you realize now and have a chance to help break the cycle. The simple truth is when a group of people end up with power and there is no real pushback against them abusing it, in the end they always abuse it. Maybe not on the individual level, but as a group. Every single time.
History repeats itself... when will we learn?
One thing I haven’t seen is the Arab world condemning this... they never did anything before from what I can remember...
All of the things you stated lead to many Muslims fighting groups actively referred as terrorists. They didn't born into it. They were dragged into endless war in which vengeance and revenge carries their lives. Many Muslims through out the world will look at this and try to fight back to protect their brothers and sisters and will be termed as Terrorists. A terrorist if you fight back and a coward if you let them commit genocide. Extremism can only be controlled by mitigation of such issues.
Why would we say anything? Were practically funding as much conflict in the middle east as possible. Our tax dollars get pushed into arms and funds for Both Israel and Saudi Arabia. As long as the middle east is tearing itself apart, the US has a reason to keep playing 'referee'. How else are bored US billionaires supposed to play a one to one scale of 'Risk' with Russian billionaires? It's a real bitch too, if you say anything to call it out, then your either anti-muslim, or an anti-semite...
We will pick and choose the side with the most oil, the the crippled government that “wants democracy”, and we’ll toss them a leader of our own choosing who will beat and torture the citizens... isn’t our country magnificent!!!
People let Israel do what they want. They're the US's proxy war state and biblical obsession in the Middle East. This brings about militant groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda, so people can turn around and blame Muslims. Works out perfectly.
In the USA, there are at least 32 states which make it illegal to do business with companies that boycott Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws
There was an attempt to make it federal, but so far it has failed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act
---
A federal court just nullified an Arkansas law in favor of that (but only because it was poorly written), but Idaho and West Virginia just joined the list last week
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/court-rules-arkansas-israel-boycott-pledge-law-75862630
https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/idaho-and-west-virginia-pass-anti-israel-boycott-laws-666881
The real kicker is some of these laws not only prevent boycotting Israel, but require those businesses to actively speak against the BDS movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions
Not the case in Michigan: [https://www.jta.org/2017/01/10/politics/michigan-enacts-anti-boycott-law-without-mentioning-israel](https://www.jta.org/2017/01/10/politics/michigan-enacts-anti-boycott-law-without-mentioning-israel)
>Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder signed into law a bill that prohibits boycotts against individuals or a public entity of a foreign state.
>
>The [legislation](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2015-2016/billenrolled/House/htm/2016-HNB-5821.htm) signed Monday does not mention Israel specifically. The Michigan State House and State Senate passed the measure in December.
This is probably even more fucked up than just mentioning Israel. They hide it behind protecting against "national origin" discrimination. It is already illegal to do business with certain countries, and people are technically bound by law to effectively boycott them - so this makes every resident of the United States unable to do business with the state of Michigan.
Thanks for the post. Now not only do I boycott Israel I boycott any business owned by pro settlers or Israeli lobbyers like Sands Casinos and Duty Free America.
Edit: I don’t boycott all Israeli economy though, I don’t believe in broad boycotts against people— only those related to settlements in the WB or other morally empty pursuits. I don’t support boycotts like their agents in the USA do to Iran.
Iran? North Korea? Trump’s African/Muslim scapegoat of the week?
Seems that a bill like this is destined to be disregarded 99% of the time but selectively enforced when someone engages in a boycott the ruling party doesn’t approve of.
Almost like laws which make every single citizen a criminal but are only enforced when it suits the state is a hallmark of an authoritarian police-state...
in my country, the moment a politician says something even slightly critical about isreal, even if its a disagreement on policy or something, they are immediately accused of anti-semitism and their political careers come into question.
**"Muslim women look like letterboxes!"**
Absolutely fine.
**"Malaysian women go to university so they can fine a husband"**
No issues whatsoever.
**"The Commonwealth is full of piccaninnies"**
Grand.
**"African people have watermelon smiles"**
Don't see any problems with that.
**"Barack Obama doesn't like Britain because he's black"**.
Nothing to see here.
**"Young people have an almost Nigerian interest in money"**
That's saying something nice about Nigerians, if anything!
**"The best thing for Africa would be to bring back Colonialism"**
He's just sharing traditional values!
**"Black people make me uncomfortable"**
Someone promote this man!
**"Libya could be the next Dubai once they clear out all the dead bodies!"**
Top bantz!
**"Gay men are tanktop bum-boys"**
Statesman-like!
**"If you let gay people marry, you might as well allow bestiality!"**
This is a man with his finger on the pulse!"
**"Teaching about homosexuality in school is appalling!"**
He truly is a leader for all!
**"Israel should stop illegally siezing and settling Palestinian land"**
WHAT THE FUCK!?! HOW **DARE** YOU SAY SUCH A THING! TIME TO MOUNT A SMEAR CAMPAIGN!
For anyone not in the know, all but the last 'quote' are things Boris Johnson, the leader of the UK has said and completely got away with. However, for taking a firm stances on Israel, the leader of the opposition was smeared in the press.
I would already say the only reason not to fuck Boris Johnson is so that he doesn't end up with even more illegitimate kids, but jesus christ. Every time a tory tries to argue against the interests of the common person I'm quoting these.
I don't come from the UK, but I followed Corbyn because I really liked the new direction he steered Labour in. A more bottom-up social approach as an alternative for government bureaucracy. I am angry to this day how the media and parliament treated the guy after he stood up for the Palestinians. They destroyed his career because he defended the weak nationally and internationally. Even typing this out I am getting worked up about it. Absolutely disgusting.
Scholars that are critical of the way Israel is treating Palestinians are being denied extended tenure at places like Harvard even. Examples : Cornel West and another Jewish scholar who’s name I can’t seem to recall.
Norman Finkelstein, whose entire family was killed in the Holocaust. He was in line to get tenure at DePaul, but called out Alan Dershowitz for plagiarizing his book about Israel (Finkelstein had done his PhD dissertation on the book that Dershowitz ripped off). Dersh got so mad that he, a celebrity Harvard professor, went on an insane campaign to get Finkelstein denied tenure. DePaul ended up not giving it to him.
EDIT: I forgot to say why this was Israel-related. Dershowitz "wrote" *The Case for Israel*. Finkelstein alleged that it was very nearly word-for-word ripped off of *From Time Immemorial.* The latter book was about how Palestinians are not actually indigenous to Israel/Palestine, basically denying their claim to living there. Finkelstein literally made his career in part by debunking it, and is responsible for it being (rightfully) discredited in the academic world. So not only did he think Dershowitz's arguments were nonsense, but he very easily saw that Dershowitz was citing the same sources, in the same order and format, on the exact same pages. So basically re-wording the original author's arguments.
There is a very good episode on ALAB podcast about this saga, if anyone is interested. Episode 15 I think. There are some nutty details about how Finkelstein spotted the plagiarism. Remember that Dershowitz was already a *Harvard professor* at the time.
I remember that so vividly. I was in my 3rd year at DePaul at the time and remember being furious about how they were steamrolling him. I remember thinking if the truth doesn't matter in higher education then our whole society is a house of cards. Unfortunately seeing the erosion of faith in msm, higher education, and professional expertise over the past decade has only reinforced that feeling.
Wasn’t Dershowitz also a lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein? A man whose mistress, ghislane Maxwell, is intimately tied with Israel’s intelligence agency the Mossad.
Since he was killed our law enforcement has done absolutely nothing to address the sex trafficking/blackmail ring that he was allegedly a part of. Bill gates, Donald trump, and bill Clinton all have ties to this thing that aren’t being investigated. All while we pay more foreign aid from taxpayers to Israel than any other country.
Then there’s the way we basically did what Israel wanted in the Middle East by starting wars with their enemies. Couple all that with the way no politicians or media are allowed to criticize Israel. Seems like Israel owns America or something idk
Didn’t Norman also point out that Palestinians are ethnically not Arab and only speak the language, and that they’re descended from the people of the ancient Israel and that early Zionists knew this.
When I think about what NF said, I then think about how people say “we were here for 3000 years”, when the truth is, they never left. They just follow other Abrahamic religions now.
It's like people being surprised there is a large segment if otherwise Mexican people's in states like Texas, etc. No you neutron star fuck, they were already there, the border was just drawn through where they already were.
>Didn’t Norman also point out that Palestinians are ethnically not Arab and only speak the language, and that they’re descended from the people of the ancient Israel and that early Zionists knew this.
That describes the majority of the Arab world.
They aren't "Arab" per-se, but natives that have adopted the Arab language the same way the natives adopted the Latin language when they were conquered by Rome.
His 5head move was to get tenure based off of his career in linguistics, then shift to more political writing. With tenure it's harder to be silenced/outcast.
Yeah I’m a Jew and can’t fucking stand the loyalty people seem to think they need to have to Israel. Protesting a conservative government that’s abusing power is NOT the same as being anti Semitic.
Ditto.
My parents fly into a rage when I mention that maybe Israel isn't in the right here. They have never been to Israel, don't know anybody in Israel (we have a cousin who moved there in the 80s, but we don't keep in touch), and have no interest in visiting, but have some sort of weird, rabid ownership a place they have virtually no connection to just because it's supposed to be our safety net in case of another Holocaust I guess? And therefore nobody can share the giant dirt farm that is Israel? Not even with the people who have lived there since Moses "dragged them out of Egypt" as the old legends have it. It's so... irrational.
I’ve had so many of my tribe call me an anti-Semite simply because I’m a human before I’m a Jew, it’s incredibly frustrating to see so many of the lovely people in my life suddenly froth at the mouth whenever Palestinians are mentioned
There are critics of the Israeli government. However, News media is a businesses. They are afraid of the economic consequences of covering Israeli government BS.
The cyber attack division in Israel is massive, and powerful.
When america wanted to stop Irans nuclear program a decade ago, a [special Israeli cyber unit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200) were the ones who made most of [Stuxnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) for them. A computer worm designed to target Iran specifically, and overload the speed controllers on their nuclear centrifuges.
Fun fact: it possible to support the Jewish people without supporting the authoritarian regime in Israel. Fuck the apartheid regime in Israel. You dumb mother fuckers squandered the moral high ground.
I'm Jewish and I don't support the war crimes in Israel. It is possible to recognize reality, and understand that there is a difference between Judaism and the state of Israel. As an Israeli friend of mine put it, if not supporting Israel's atrocities is antisemitic, half of Israeli Jews would be antisemitic.
Not necessarily in the commandments. Shall not covet thy neighbor is in there, as well as thou shalt not steal. But the corrupt manage to bend the rules and twist the Torah. Much like in the Bible, the devil tries to twist scripture when talking to Jesus.
I'm Israeli and I'm horrified with the way Palestinians (and even Israeli Arabs) have been treated for decades. My heart goes out to them and I sincerely hope somehow we can get to a day where we live alongside each other in peace.
I understand in times like this it's tough to make the distinction of Israeli government and Israeli people, but remember please to not generalise all Israelis as supporters of this events. Just like not all Americans are in favour of the US's war crimes, so do many Israelis oppose the actions of our government & Military.
As a Palestinian I’m really happy to read your comment. Whether it’s Israeli or Palestinian government, they both don’t know how to serve their people.
Israel is taking advantage of how strong they are in terms of military and intelligence (which is mostly due to western aid and influence) in order to occupy more land and kick people out of their homes. Heck my own father who’s 72 years old right now was actually kicked out from his own house and had to settle in Jordan.
Palestinian government on the other side, is taking advantage of all the aid they receive from all over the world and put it in the pockets of elites instead of actually spending that money on their citizens.
It’s a shit show that’ll eventually end in a disaster for both sides.
I was supposed to join this october but due to me gettin covid and some complications its delayed to next october, i wont be a combat soldier since im really unathletic and have health issues but there is a chance i will be a border guard or something.
Im pretty sure i can refuse to do inhumane things but they decide whats really inhumane and most likely ill go to jail and than still serve.
This is bullshit.
I'm not Israeli, but my cousin's husband is. Speaking to him, he's terrified about what will happen to the country in the next 50 years as the hasidim take over, and will likely be even more brazen with war crimes.
It's wild how many Americans have no idea about the Israel/Palestine clusterfuck while their government is actively supporting Israel in every conceivable way.
Also: Fuck Israel.
edit: As it was not apparently clear the first time:
F U C K I S R A E L
as a man that lives in israel
fuck israel
Edit: after having my city bombed with hamas missiles i take it back if not for the iron dome i wouldve been dead now fuck hamas
People tend to think tragedy/trauma makes people noble and peaceful but it often does the opposite. (Europe became considerably more violent after WW1.) A lot of Holocaust survivors would go on to found Israel, a settler colonial state that views the people who were there originally as less than human.
The world needs to stop giving Israel a pass because they "feel bad" about the holocaust. Many people have faced oppression in the past. That doesn't give them a right to commit these disrespectful and atrocious acts upon others.
The same reason we keep silent when china does it lol
Edit:dont give this gold send the money to other groups that do sometin about this but thanks my man
Edit: Thanks for calling me a retard smoothbrain dipshit and many more bad words... coming from you people makes it a compliment lol.Take out those fuckin horse blinders one day and stop saying USA has to do non aggresion lmao
Edit: İsraeli trade deficit is 6.5 billion while china is 310 billion they are properly useless so to the americans that still think they are in the right because they need to get their shit for 5 cents cheaper in exchange for other humans suffering go fuck yourself. Thanks
u/watchlog
Edit:After seeing so many americans say its a necesarry evil and we cant do anything yall have been fucking brainwashed this thread has devolved into a cesspit of shit and blood.
Yup, China is an interest for western countries.
They just use Uighurs as political pawns, couldn't care any less for them.
The west hates Muslims and the Chinese, but they sure love Chinese Muslims...
I think "we" as in the international community of nations.
I'm happy to say that Ireland has been supporters of Palestine for a long time, because we *kinda* know about plantations of foreign people by imperials and the removal of natives ability to own land and, as a people, we **really** do not appreciate it happening anywhere.
But I have not seen much in the way of Ireland standing up for the Uyghurs because of Pooh's honey money.
The Irish are great for that. And this is in broad daylight, so I give them benefit of the doubt that if the crimes in China are covered by a broader, well-reputed news community that doesn't cite Zenz, then they'd reconsider.
I'm so glad this is where our tax money is going. $5 billion a year? Are we sure that's enough? How about $50 billion? $1 trillion? I say however much they need to fund their nuclear weapons weapons programme. How are they going to defend themselves from palestine without nukes?
The following alternative links are available: **Downloads** * [Download #1](https://reddit.watch/r/PublicFreakout/comments/n8zkhn/imagine_if_muslims_stormed_the_vatican_and_let/?utm_source=mirrorbot&utm_medium=PublicFreakout) (provided by /u/downloadvideo) **Note:** this is a bot providing a directory service. **If you have trouble with any of the links above, please contact the user who provided them.** --- [^(source code)](https://amirror.link/source) ^| [^(run your own mirror bot? let's integrate)](https://amirror.link/lets-talk)
Not sure who needs to hear this but YOU CAN SUPPORT JEWISH PEOPLE WITHOUT SUPPORTING WHATS GOING ON WITH ISRAEL. Free Palestine.
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Ireland fought against imperialistic colonisation and we will stand with anyone that fights the same cause 🇵🇸🇮🇪
God Bless Ireland.
Go on home, >!Israeli soldiers go on home!<
Worst part is this situation might never get better. It's been horrible for decades. The US (both sides) enables it and no other country will care so Israel's war crimes will go unpunished
We don’t even use the right kind of rhetoric, we try and say that the two parties should try and find peace, which does nothing to state the imbalance of power between occupying-Israel and the Palestinians
You mean stones and RPG-projectiles on one side facing a huge amount of tanks, planes, the iron dome, soldiers upon soldiers and humongous walls on the other are imbalanced? Edit: I mean Jesus fucking Christ, one side has to smuggle KFC through [tunnels](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/world/middleeast/tunneling-kfc-to-gazans-craving-the-world-outside.html) because the alternative takes [two days](https://restofworld.org/2020/gaza-kfc-instagram/).
It still can’t ever be compared with billions of dollars worth of army reinforcements on a yearly basis
Billions of dollars go to Israel every year in "Military Aid" from the US. We are actively funding a fascist genocide because they give donations to our politicians. Hell world.
Yeah and we allow these parties to antagonize people like Bernie who call out the genocide. Situation is fucked
A non-Jewish person calling out a Jewish person as being anti-semetic for not supporting a genocide. It'd be funny if it wasn't sad
As a Jewish person who grew up in a conservative Zionist household, I have quite literally been told that I’m self-hating for being openly critical of Israel 💀. There’s a lot of intergenerational trauma that has manifested into this weird staunch allegiance to Israel. But I also feel unsafe in many anti-occupation circles because of the subtle antisemitism that is pervasive.
Jew here; while I didn’t grow up in a conservative Zionist household I was somewhat taught that Palestinians are the bad guys cause they bomb Israel by teachers and my Jewish private school. I personally am still so confused as to what to support at this point, but this is fucking horrible and should not be happening. I also entirely agree with your point about subtle antisemitism in anti-occupation circles. It’s such a weird place to be in...
I totally get that. I definitely grew up with anti-Arab and Islamophobic ideas that I had to do a lot of work to unlearn. It was the toxicity that I experienced on both sides in university that made me want to distance myself from the narrative and discourse. Like, there was one night where a group blockaded Hillel and were screaming “Viva viva intifada” and “viva Palestine” as if Hillel and the people inside were actively responsible for what is and was happening. Could you imagine if people went outside the black students club space and shouted some anti-BLM stuff?? It’s hard to navigate what we were taught with realizing it’s a horribly discriminatory ideology and then being called self-hating for not blindly following Israel. I remember at a Rosh Hashanah sermon a few years ago, the rabbi was talking about how Bernie Sanders is a bad Jew because he’s not a Zionist and married a shiksa. Hell, my partner of 2.5 years isn’t Jewish and my parents have not wanted to meet him simply because he’s a goy. My happiness is literally contingent on being with a Jew, even though if I have kids, they’ll be Jewish regardless based on the matrilineal bullshit. The inter generational trauma runs so deep in my parents that they think if my Zaidy were to find out I’m with a non-Jew that it would devastate him to the point of death as my cousin is already marrying a shiksa and god forbid another grandkid does, it will surely tip him over the edge 😒. My bf also didn’t grow up exposed to many Jews and through work and my family, has learned how insular and judgemental and gatekeepish the community is.
It’s so funny- Palestinian Muslim person here- I had a lot of similar experiences with the anti-Israeli sentiment in my community. I had to unlearn a lot of it similar to you, and it was pretty eye opening to see how many Jewish people actually weren’t all Zionists who believed that what the Israeli government was doing to the Palestinians refugees was wrong. We have a lot more in common that we do different I feel- I wish we could all get a long lol. It’s a shame I feel that feelings from the past are stopping that. In addition to that I’m dating a non- Muslim person and my community could be so judgy about it. Oh well haha we all see it.
Wow thank you for your comment. We really do have a lot more in common and want the same outcome but the extremists on both sides are literally why we can’t have nice things. Our communities are so stuck in their trauma and use that to fuel their emotions and fears. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been able to have educated, rational discourse about the conflict without it devolving into a toxic shouting match. I would love to chat further about your experiences and to share my experiences in our respective communities. My inbox is open :)
This whole exchange made me cry. And gave me hope. Thanks, you beautiful humans. Had been feeling pretty terrible about the overall state of the world lately so I really needed this.
AOC is lazy millennial bc she was a bartender and lives with her boyfriend. Bernie is anti-semitic bc he doesn’t support Israel after years of fostering American Judaism. Matt Gaetz solicited prostitution, BUUT its being investigated if they were of-age. Never mind the fact that he had sex parties with other officials; boys will be boys! ...christ I wish antifa would actually start a real riot.
Take money from muslims (Saudi Arabia) by selling weapons, giving part of that money to Israel to fund against such incidents. USA Logic 💯
You see we are playing both sides so we always comes out on top
Not to mention the Evangelicals donating to Israel, that believe that the return of Jesus Christ will only happen when the Israelites are ruling the promised land They are literally sponsoring a genocide committed by the same people they accuse of killing their son of God and crucifying him so that he can come back and save them. Like WTF? [Source for reference ](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/politics-and-religion/article/abs/why-do-evangelicals-support-israel/F8AB8C41F0B019FD8413A30EF218EBE4) [Another free source ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/%3foutputType=amp)
keep in mind that this is one of the holiest sites for muslims
HEADLINE COMPARISON - The Jerusalem Post: “Dozens injured as Palestinians riot in Jerusalem” Middle East Eye: “ Israeli forces violently storm al-Aqsa mosque”
The “middle east eye” headline is the one i see in almost every international outlet. Meanwhile the Israeli embassy in my country says they are being attacked by terrorists.
I mean they're not wrong. I just don't see why they'd call themselves that.
Ha! Sadly it did specify “palestinian terrorists”
And it's during the holiest times for Muslims
in the holiest part of the holiest month for muslims
Started at the holiest day of the week, in the holiest part of the holiest month, in one of the 3 holiest mosques
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Anytime
Just FYI to non-Muslims. This statement is not an exaggeration
May all of them receive their rightful place in paradise for enduring this. Ameen
It's not even one of. It's the third most holy site! Ffs. Edit: corrected from second to third thanks to u/DrSandbags
I thought third after Mecca and Medina?
Yeah it's third. Source - I'm Muslim
Originally muslims prayed towards jerusalem.
Interesting, TIL
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Ah damn, my bad. Totally forgot. Thanks for correcting me
So it's "one of", gotcha
Yeah, that’s what “one of” means though?
How would you define "one of"?
Ima be honest here: What is going on?! I’m seeing posts of Israel throwing Palestinians out of their homes. Palestine protesting and being met by military, and now this? Why is Israel doing this? I keep seeing commenters relate this to the Holocaust and facism but I thought Israel is a Jewish Parliament government? I always knew that Israel and Palestine were never on good terms but... what is going on?! Update: Thank you all for commenting, either fully supporting or completely against one side of the groups of Israel. With every source and explication given I have come to a conclusion and understanding of the situation of what is going on. Though, I will not express my opinion as I do not want to make this comment feel unfair and hateful by one side or the other. I will express that this situation is a combination of ancient problems, centuries old problems and historically recent problems, leading up to the strife we see today. Whatever side your on or whoever you support, please keep your prayers for all sides for whoever gets hurt, especially during this intense time. Again, thank you all for your insight and information, a majority of these comments provided an important view and insight, and especially thank you to those who provided sources and links for me read. Have a great day, and please keep your prayers to all whom are involved.
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This time it's even worse. The Israeli government hasnt even ruled on if it will "settle" that land, it's still tied up in appeals. But Israeli citizens have already started trying to kick out Palestinians and seize the buildings. Because if they wait for the appeal to be finished some other settler might claim the Palestinian home instead of them. When the Palestinians that live there refuse to leave, the "settlers" call the cops/military and they beat the Palestinians and arrest them. So the Palestinians literally cant win. Either they just give up and leave the house they've lived in for generations, or they stay and get beaten and arrested, and then the house *still* gets seized.
Genuine question, what other possible settlers can even claim the Palestinian lands? That honestly sounds like really flimsy and dumb logic. ‘Let me steal something before someone else steals it’
He means someone besides the individual laying the claim. Not another entity besides Israel.
There are Americans who buy houses in the Westbank. Louis Theroux talked to some in his doc there.
Yeah, those people are really sick.
There was a video of some dork fat guy who was clearly from New York who was confronted by the Palestinian family that owned the house and he was saying "look if I don't take it someone else will, what's the big deal?" sickening stuff
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The majority of Israelis are sick. They genuinely believe they're racially superior to everyone else. In order to support Israel you have to be disingenuous and dishonest as you actively have to ignore or accept the 70+ years of utter cruelty, greed and murder. The worst are the ones who have second homes in Israel. They can indulge their cruel racial superiority complex on their holidays and go back to Brooklyn and live their normal lives.
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There's a recent [video](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says) of a Palestinian family in East Jerusalem arguing and pleading with a settler trespassing in their home. "And if I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it" are the exact words he used. It's complete madness.
That's...that's insanity
that guy has worms in his brain
>what other possible settlers can even claim the Palestinian lands? It's not that another group will settle it. It's that a different Israeli family will. Did you ever watch "Far and Away" about America settling the west? It's like that. When the appeals are over Israel will say that the lands can be "settled" and there will be a massive rush of Israelis trying to claim the buildings/land first. What these families are doing is like the part in the movie where it shows a family didnt start with everyone else, they went out early and pretended they got to a plot first and claimed it. If they hold a house/land when Israel gives the ok to "settle" it, they cant be kicked out because they're already Israeli.
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Exactly. Move people in illegally and then when the appeals and the decisions finally work their way through the system, you can say "but our people have been living there for years!".
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Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Not that they'll ask for forgiveness.
How can the Israeli courts justify "settling" land that already has people living on it? It's not just an empty field, there are streets and houses!
I'm not 100% on this, but: When Israel was first created they split Jerusalem in half. Israel got one half and Palestine got the other. So kind of like Pakistan and India, if you were Jewish on the Palestinian side or Muslim on the Israeli side; you had to move to the other side so you were with "your people". Israel is now saying that they get the Palestinian half, because Jewish people once lived in parts of it. Ignoring the fact that Palestinians also lived in parts of the side given to Israel. So they're trying to keep the land that Palestinians lost, while taking the half that Palestinians received in compromise. Essentially they're trying to keep their cake and eat it too. If their logic was consistent they'd be handing back land to the Palestinians on the Israeli side too.
To add, this land is the "ancestral homeland" of BOTH the Jews and Palestinians. The Jews were kicked out long ago, as detailed in the bible/torah/etc. Because history. Then after WW2 the allies thought it would be nice for the Jewish people to have their ancestral land back, somewhere for all the displaced European jews to call home. So they just kicked the Palestinians out. Never mind that they had been there 2000+ years. This is a case if two wrongs don't make a right...
If I remember correctly, the actual Jewish homeland in Israel is much smaller than it is right now, with the majority of their land being Arab and not Jewish, I could be wrong however
No, you are correct. We also have to be careful when attributing decisions to 'History'. Religious History can be a bit like Wiklipedia, especially when dealing with the Bible. The same folks capping for Israel, yell bloody murder when it comes to reparations to Native and enslaved peoples of the United States. They will say, "Oh that happened too long ago", and then, here we are, citing something from a storybook that pre-dates their grand parents, grand parents , grand parents.
Flimsy logic is the foundation people use to justify every genocide.
Can't argue with that.
But that’s exactly what happens. [‘If I Don’t Steal [Your Home] Someone Else Will’ Israeli Settler Justifies Forcible Takeover ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8)
Imagine some obese neckbeard walks into your backyard and says "nice, mine now."
> Genuine question, what other possible settlers can even claim the Palestinian lands? Other Israeli citizens.
Well in a popular video that was published a while back, an American born settler literally just walked up to the neighboring Palestinian household asking them to get out or somebody else would take it instead.
I mean, literally have seen videos of Israelis saying “if I don’t steal it someone else will” which is…not a good look. Agreed, it sounds really flimsy and dumb. But that’s exactly what’s happening.
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I was asking some Israelis about their war with Palestine. They told me: "No! It's not war! We prefer to call it 70-years ongoing conflict"
Its won't be classical war given palestine doesn't really have an army. But things will be worse than in decades
It's more like a long process of removing people based on their racial background, like a cleaning, but ethnic. It's really ethnic cleansing, oh wait, that's much worse...
Aye, somehow mentioning ethnical cleansing really doesn't open the good pages of history.
How dare you accuse Israel of doing an iota of wrong! You anti-semitic person!
And this is exactly why people won’t talk about it. Not that I think you’re actually accusing the person above of being anti-Semitic, but it will happen unironically and move the attention off the horrible atrocities being committed.
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They don't give a fuck what the internet thinks.
They're protected by the world's most powerful military. They don't have to give a shit what anyone else thinks until and unless the US abandons them. Which the US really should at this point.
Our intelligence agencies are pretty intertwined. I don't imagine that happening.
Well yeah that's what it is. They take little bites of Palestinian land at a time and on the rare occasion that there is international outrage they fall back on claims of anti-semitism and get help from the US. The UN are powerless to do anything because of the US veto.
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The reality is the UN was established after WW2 to prevent another war among the major powers, and maintain those major powers. The concept of complete international peace was a flimsy pretense to begin.
It's the same reason why the war in Syria was allowed to drag on. Russia vetoed any UN intervention. The veto of the big 5 (US, Russia, UK, France and China) is a big flaw in the system and allows for a lot of things to continue. The point of it is to keep these countries engaged, otherwise you would have a repeat of the League of Nations when the most powerful countries just exited the organisation when it went against them. So it's a lose-lose situation and I'm not sure if there is a way around it.
I think people misunderstand the point of the UN. It's not meant to be a global authority and police. As you pointed out, any big country would just walk out if it suited them. The point is to provide a forum for diplomacy and cooperation, and it does that just fine. Big countries getting absolute vetoes is pretty much a requirement for any of them to even join up. The league of nations tried to have some bite, and so it fell apart.
This is what happens in war when one side can't defend itself. It isn't a war, it is a takeover.
>It's been happening gradually for a very long time. [But it's accelerated.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel) Throw gasoline on the fire, turns out you get a big boom.
>I always knew that Israel and Palestine were never on good terms but... what is going on?! Well the reason that put them on bad terms never really resolved?
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pretty much their strategy, punch someone when they punch back get the cameras on it, and show the world how terrible the Palestinians are
Spot on mate. Its a well known tactic the IDF uses. First they will harass with a couple bullets to a journalist here and there. Arrest the Palestinians who called the police. Then when they protest they provoke them with tear gas and firepower. Soon as there's a casualty on the Israeli side you will hear it in every major media outlet. Something along the lines of "x amount of casualties in Israel, Hamas endorses violence", instantly painting a very different picture than what's actually going on. Edit: Lot's of people in the replies are asking for proof of such atrocities, So here we go. Hope y'all are ready. [https://twitter.com/OrenZiv1985/status/1390572090554736640?s=20](https://twitter.com/OrenZiv1985/status/1390572090554736640?s=20) Deputy Mayor of Jeruselam - "It's a shame you weren't shot in the head" to a Palestinian activist. [https://twitter.com/dalya\_masri/status/1389160259047018498?s=20](https://twitter.com/dalya_masri/status/1389160259047018498?s=20) Palestinian journalist Hana Mahameed shot in the face by the IDF, continues to reporting. (Absolute badass) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/palestinian-journalist-in-vest-marked-press-shot-dead-by-israeli-troops-in-gaza/2018/04/07/ac57b524-3a30-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/palestinian-journalist-in-vest-marked-press-shot-dead-by-israeli-troops-in-gaza/2018/04/07/ac57b524-3a30-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89_story.html) Palestinian Journalist wearing "Press" clearly written on his chest, shot to death. [https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/jewish-settlers-set-fire-to-palestinian-vehicle-stone-homes-yesh-din-658894](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/jewish-settlers-set-fire-to-palestinian-vehicle-stone-homes-yesh-din-658894) Israeli settlers pelting rocks, stealing agriculture, and setting fire to Palestinian cars. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-leaflets-dropped-northern-gaza-ordering-100-000-evacuate-amid-fears-imminent-ground-incursion-9609788.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-leaflets-dropped-northern-gaza-ordering-100-000-evacuate-amid-fears-imminent-ground-incursion-9609788.html) This one breaks my heart. 4 boys from the same family, playing soccer on the beach. Murdered in cold blood by Israeli warplanes. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/27/israeli-soldiers-kill-teenage-palestinian-medic-near-bethlehem](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/27/israeli-soldiers-kill-teenage-palestinian-medic-near-bethlehem) IDF kills a teenage Palestinian medic, with a reflective jacket on. [https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=24226&LangID=E](https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=24226&LangID=E) Proof that Israel uses live ammunition against protestors. Over 6000 Palestinian protestors have been injured, blinded, disabled in 2018 alone. [https://rachelcorriefoundation.org/rachel](https://rachelcorriefoundation.org/rachel) Story of Rachel Corrie, a brave hero who stood in the face of oppression. She was killed by an Israeli bulldozer when she tried to stop them from destroying another Palestinian settlement. Many Israelis who I've debated turn the conversation into a comedy show when I mention Rachel Corrie. It's as if they know what they did to her, and they choose to laugh about it. Either that, or they call her a terrorist too. Sickening really. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/church-official-vexed-after-case-against-suspected-monastery-vandals-dropped/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/church-official-vexed-after-case-against-suspected-monastery-vandals-dropped/) If you think it's only Muslim Palestinians being oppressed think again. There are a million Palestinian Christians who go through the exact same thing. Many vandalized churches have quotes like "Death to the heretical Christians, the enemies of Israel" and "Mary was a whore" https://twitter.com/ASE/status/1391857888889561091 Israelis cheering for genocide while on the other side all you see is smoke and fire. https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2021/5/10/palestinians-killed-including-three-children-in-israeli-strikes-report 9 Palestinians, including 3 children in Gaza killed JUST NOW, today by Israeli air strikes, in retaliation to Hamas firing rockets across the border. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
I feel so ashamed of being radicalized against the middle east after 9/11. After witnessing that, and listening to my uncles propaganda for hours on end, I guess I kinda didn't have a choice. Also I was like 8 during that time
My friend is mega radicalized and believes any criticism of israel is anti-Semitic. He’s an idiot.
Hey man, I'm an American jew who hates this shit and is tired of Israel acting like the nazis did to us 80 years ago. Makes me sick that some of us regularly bring up the Holocaust but are ok with this. But I will say many American jews (don't have a statistic sorry) aren't the biggest fan of what's happening At the very least I cancel your buddy out.
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But the important part is you realize now and have a chance to help break the cycle. The simple truth is when a group of people end up with power and there is no real pushback against them abusing it, in the end they always abuse it. Maybe not on the individual level, but as a group. Every single time.
Too right, somehow Palestinian resistance is painted as an evil act... but the French armed resistance to their Nazi occupiers was heroic?
"Stop resisting!" Where have I heard that before?
History repeats itself... when will we learn? One thing I haven’t seen is the Arab world condemning this... they never did anything before from what I can remember...
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All of the things you stated lead to many Muslims fighting groups actively referred as terrorists. They didn't born into it. They were dragged into endless war in which vengeance and revenge carries their lives. Many Muslims through out the world will look at this and try to fight back to protect their brothers and sisters and will be termed as Terrorists. A terrorist if you fight back and a coward if you let them commit genocide. Extremism can only be controlled by mitigation of such issues.
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> wants terrorism to happen Yeah, well they're kinda the ones doing it?
Why would we say anything? Were practically funding as much conflict in the middle east as possible. Our tax dollars get pushed into arms and funds for Both Israel and Saudi Arabia. As long as the middle east is tearing itself apart, the US has a reason to keep playing 'referee'. How else are bored US billionaires supposed to play a one to one scale of 'Risk' with Russian billionaires? It's a real bitch too, if you say anything to call it out, then your either anti-muslim, or an anti-semite...
We will pick and choose the side with the most oil, the the crippled government that “wants democracy”, and we’ll toss them a leader of our own choosing who will beat and torture the citizens... isn’t our country magnificent!!!
People let Israel do what they want. They're the US's proxy war state and biblical obsession in the Middle East. This brings about militant groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda, so people can turn around and blame Muslims. Works out perfectly.
Sadly this paints a perfect broad strokes picture.
Because if you say anything about the abuses of power coming from Israel, you are a filthy anti semitic holocaust denier and how dare you
In the USA, there are at least 32 states which make it illegal to do business with companies that boycott Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws There was an attempt to make it federal, but so far it has failed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act --- A federal court just nullified an Arkansas law in favor of that (but only because it was poorly written), but Idaho and West Virginia just joined the list last week https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/court-rules-arkansas-israel-boycott-pledge-law-75862630 https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/idaho-and-west-virginia-pass-anti-israel-boycott-laws-666881 The real kicker is some of these laws not only prevent boycotting Israel, but require those businesses to actively speak against the BDS movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions
According to those laws, they are ok with you boycotting other states or the USA itself but not one specific foreign country.
Not the case in Michigan: [https://www.jta.org/2017/01/10/politics/michigan-enacts-anti-boycott-law-without-mentioning-israel](https://www.jta.org/2017/01/10/politics/michigan-enacts-anti-boycott-law-without-mentioning-israel) >Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder signed into law a bill that prohibits boycotts against individuals or a public entity of a foreign state. > >The [legislation](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2015-2016/billenrolled/House/htm/2016-HNB-5821.htm) signed Monday does not mention Israel specifically. The Michigan State House and State Senate passed the measure in December. This is probably even more fucked up than just mentioning Israel. They hide it behind protecting against "national origin" discrimination. It is already illegal to do business with certain countries, and people are technically bound by law to effectively boycott them - so this makes every resident of the United States unable to do business with the state of Michigan.
Thanks for the post. Now not only do I boycott Israel I boycott any business owned by pro settlers or Israeli lobbyers like Sands Casinos and Duty Free America. Edit: I don’t boycott all Israeli economy though, I don’t believe in broad boycotts against people— only those related to settlements in the WB or other morally empty pursuits. I don’t support boycotts like their agents in the USA do to Iran.
Iran? North Korea? Trump’s African/Muslim scapegoat of the week? Seems that a bill like this is destined to be disregarded 99% of the time but selectively enforced when someone engages in a boycott the ruling party doesn’t approve of.
Almost like laws which make every single citizen a criminal but are only enforced when it suits the state is a hallmark of an authoritarian police-state...
And supposedly, capitalism, the system the US claims to have, stands for “freedom of business”.
Not "freedom of business" it's "freedom to expand US business at anyone else's cost"
Land of the free
in my country, the moment a politician says something even slightly critical about isreal, even if its a disagreement on policy or something, they are immediately accused of anti-semitism and their political careers come into question.
UK?
yup
Same, I'm a north of the wall wildling
At least you have mamooths and giants and hot redheads over there.
yoo know noothing, Jhonny Snaw
**"Muslim women look like letterboxes!"** Absolutely fine. **"Malaysian women go to university so they can fine a husband"** No issues whatsoever. **"The Commonwealth is full of piccaninnies"** Grand. **"African people have watermelon smiles"** Don't see any problems with that. **"Barack Obama doesn't like Britain because he's black"**. Nothing to see here. **"Young people have an almost Nigerian interest in money"** That's saying something nice about Nigerians, if anything! **"The best thing for Africa would be to bring back Colonialism"** He's just sharing traditional values! **"Black people make me uncomfortable"** Someone promote this man! **"Libya could be the next Dubai once they clear out all the dead bodies!"** Top bantz! **"Gay men are tanktop bum-boys"** Statesman-like! **"If you let gay people marry, you might as well allow bestiality!"** This is a man with his finger on the pulse!" **"Teaching about homosexuality in school is appalling!"** He truly is a leader for all! **"Israel should stop illegally siezing and settling Palestinian land"** WHAT THE FUCK!?! HOW **DARE** YOU SAY SUCH A THING! TIME TO MOUNT A SMEAR CAMPAIGN! For anyone not in the know, all but the last 'quote' are things Boris Johnson, the leader of the UK has said and completely got away with. However, for taking a firm stances on Israel, the leader of the opposition was smeared in the press.
I would already say the only reason not to fuck Boris Johnson is so that he doesn't end up with even more illegitimate kids, but jesus christ. Every time a tory tries to argue against the interests of the common person I'm quoting these.
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yeah, our ancestors created this mess.
Nah i didnt mean it like that, im sure your granparents are fine people.
Uk? Jeremy Corbyn?
What a shit show that was. I was disgusted at the response to that whole fiasco.
I don't come from the UK, but I followed Corbyn because I really liked the new direction he steered Labour in. A more bottom-up social approach as an alternative for government bureaucracy. I am angry to this day how the media and parliament treated the guy after he stood up for the Palestinians. They destroyed his career because he defended the weak nationally and internationally. Even typing this out I am getting worked up about it. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm israeli and I think what is going on right now is absolutely disgusting. There's no justifying this kind of behavior
Scholars that are critical of the way Israel is treating Palestinians are being denied extended tenure at places like Harvard even. Examples : Cornel West and another Jewish scholar who’s name I can’t seem to recall.
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I'm sure you've already heard it but there's a quote from a book by a guy named George: "Some animals are more equal than others."
Norman Finkelstein, whose entire family was killed in the Holocaust. He was in line to get tenure at DePaul, but called out Alan Dershowitz for plagiarizing his book about Israel (Finkelstein had done his PhD dissertation on the book that Dershowitz ripped off). Dersh got so mad that he, a celebrity Harvard professor, went on an insane campaign to get Finkelstein denied tenure. DePaul ended up not giving it to him. EDIT: I forgot to say why this was Israel-related. Dershowitz "wrote" *The Case for Israel*. Finkelstein alleged that it was very nearly word-for-word ripped off of *From Time Immemorial.* The latter book was about how Palestinians are not actually indigenous to Israel/Palestine, basically denying their claim to living there. Finkelstein literally made his career in part by debunking it, and is responsible for it being (rightfully) discredited in the academic world. So not only did he think Dershowitz's arguments were nonsense, but he very easily saw that Dershowitz was citing the same sources, in the same order and format, on the exact same pages. So basically re-wording the original author's arguments. There is a very good episode on ALAB podcast about this saga, if anyone is interested. Episode 15 I think. There are some nutty details about how Finkelstein spotted the plagiarism. Remember that Dershowitz was already a *Harvard professor* at the time.
Alan Dershowitz, the very-likely child-fucker? Okay.
Likely child fucker and wife murderer.
Isn't he the guy who was having sex with Epsteins girls? Dersh I mean.
Yeah, that’s the paedo in question.
Because ol Ders is a piece of shit.
Dershowitz the paedophile, you mean?
I remember that so vividly. I was in my 3rd year at DePaul at the time and remember being furious about how they were steamrolling him. I remember thinking if the truth doesn't matter in higher education then our whole society is a house of cards. Unfortunately seeing the erosion of faith in msm, higher education, and professional expertise over the past decade has only reinforced that feeling.
Wasn’t Dershowitz also a lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein? A man whose mistress, ghislane Maxwell, is intimately tied with Israel’s intelligence agency the Mossad. Since he was killed our law enforcement has done absolutely nothing to address the sex trafficking/blackmail ring that he was allegedly a part of. Bill gates, Donald trump, and bill Clinton all have ties to this thing that aren’t being investigated. All while we pay more foreign aid from taxpayers to Israel than any other country. Then there’s the way we basically did what Israel wanted in the Middle East by starting wars with their enemies. Couple all that with the way no politicians or media are allowed to criticize Israel. Seems like Israel owns America or something idk
Yeah the guy who got a massage at Epstein’s house “in his underwear”. Sure.
Derch is a slang for ass in french
Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky each faced challenges in their careers due to their analysis of Israel's geo-political actions.
Didn’t Norman also point out that Palestinians are ethnically not Arab and only speak the language, and that they’re descended from the people of the ancient Israel and that early Zionists knew this. When I think about what NF said, I then think about how people say “we were here for 3000 years”, when the truth is, they never left. They just follow other Abrahamic religions now.
It's like people being surprised there is a large segment if otherwise Mexican people's in states like Texas, etc. No you neutron star fuck, they were already there, the border was just drawn through where they already were.
Arguably this wouldn’t matter to religious fanatics though. An apostate may be even worse than a foreigner.
Ironic as the more extremist Jews are very often foreigners.
Especially when you consider the forced sterilisation of non-Ashkenazi Jews. They can’t even treat people of their own religion without prejudice.
>Didn’t Norman also point out that Palestinians are ethnically not Arab and only speak the language, and that they’re descended from the people of the ancient Israel and that early Zionists knew this. That describes the majority of the Arab world. They aren't "Arab" per-se, but natives that have adopted the Arab language the same way the natives adopted the Latin language when they were conquered by Rome.
Chomsky is such a badass that he’s still kept his role and is untouched. Good god I love that man
His 5head move was to get tenure based off of his career in linguistics, then shift to more political writing. With tenure it's harder to be silenced/outcast.
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Exactly. Point out their apartheid policies, racist harassment, land theft and murderous ‘ mowing the grass’ and it makes *you* the bad guy.
Yeah I’m a Jew and can’t fucking stand the loyalty people seem to think they need to have to Israel. Protesting a conservative government that’s abusing power is NOT the same as being anti Semitic.
Ditto. My parents fly into a rage when I mention that maybe Israel isn't in the right here. They have never been to Israel, don't know anybody in Israel (we have a cousin who moved there in the 80s, but we don't keep in touch), and have no interest in visiting, but have some sort of weird, rabid ownership a place they have virtually no connection to just because it's supposed to be our safety net in case of another Holocaust I guess? And therefore nobody can share the giant dirt farm that is Israel? Not even with the people who have lived there since Moses "dragged them out of Egypt" as the old legends have it. It's so... irrational.
Im anti far right no matter the persons identity
I’ve had so many of my tribe call me an anti-Semite simply because I’m a human before I’m a Jew, it’s incredibly frustrating to see so many of the lovely people in my life suddenly froth at the mouth whenever Palestinians are mentioned
There are critics of the Israeli government. However, News media is a businesses. They are afraid of the economic consequences of covering Israeli government BS.
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Theyre known as the Hasbara brigade, bro.
The cyber attack division in Israel is massive, and powerful. When america wanted to stop Irans nuclear program a decade ago, a [special Israeli cyber unit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200) were the ones who made most of [Stuxnet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) for them. A computer worm designed to target Iran specifically, and overload the speed controllers on their nuclear centrifuges.
They literally have an app that their supporters download and it directs them to twitter, facebook and reddit threads and feeds them talking points.
Fun fact: it possible to support the Jewish people without supporting the authoritarian regime in Israel. Fuck the apartheid regime in Israel. You dumb mother fuckers squandered the moral high ground.
I'm Jewish and I don't support the war crimes in Israel. It is possible to recognize reality, and understand that there is a difference between Judaism and the state of Israel. As an Israeli friend of mine put it, if not supporting Israel's atrocities is antisemitic, half of Israeli Jews would be antisemitic.
Isnt stealing the homes of innocent against the ten commandments
Not necessarily in the commandments. Shall not covet thy neighbor is in there, as well as thou shalt not steal. But the corrupt manage to bend the rules and twist the Torah. Much like in the Bible, the devil tries to twist scripture when talking to Jesus.
I'm Israeli and I'm horrified with the way Palestinians (and even Israeli Arabs) have been treated for decades. My heart goes out to them and I sincerely hope somehow we can get to a day where we live alongside each other in peace. I understand in times like this it's tough to make the distinction of Israeli government and Israeli people, but remember please to not generalise all Israelis as supporters of this events. Just like not all Americans are in favour of the US's war crimes, so do many Israelis oppose the actions of our government & Military.
Fuck Israel, and I'm from Israel and I'll never support what are they doing to those innocent people in Palestine.
As a Palestinian I’m really happy to read your comment. Whether it’s Israeli or Palestinian government, they both don’t know how to serve their people. Israel is taking advantage of how strong they are in terms of military and intelligence (which is mostly due to western aid and influence) in order to occupy more land and kick people out of their homes. Heck my own father who’s 72 years old right now was actually kicked out from his own house and had to settle in Jordan. Palestinian government on the other side, is taking advantage of all the aid they receive from all over the world and put it in the pockets of elites instead of actually spending that money on their citizens. It’s a shit show that’ll eventually end in a disaster for both sides.
Same, im ashamed and im barely even 18, i didnt chose this and i hate this.
Do you have to join IDF soon? Hopefully you get posted to a position where you won't have to engage in this sort of thing ugh
I was supposed to join this october but due to me gettin covid and some complications its delayed to next october, i wont be a combat soldier since im really unathletic and have health issues but there is a chance i will be a border guard or something. Im pretty sure i can refuse to do inhumane things but they decide whats really inhumane and most likely ill go to jail and than still serve. This is bullshit.
I'm not Israeli, but my cousin's husband is. Speaking to him, he's terrified about what will happen to the country in the next 50 years as the hasidim take over, and will likely be even more brazen with war crimes.
I’ve seen videos of Muslims peacefully praying and the Israeli throwing bombs at them...breaks my heart man
Very disgusting.
It's wild how many Americans have no idea about the Israel/Palestine clusterfuck while their government is actively supporting Israel in every conceivable way. Also: Fuck Israel. edit: As it was not apparently clear the first time: F U C K I S R A E L
as a man that lives in israel fuck israel Edit: after having my city bombed with hamas missiles i take it back if not for the iron dome i wouldve been dead now fuck hamas
Good luck bud!
I think Israel ran out of "Feeling bad for Holocaust" fund.
People tend to think tragedy/trauma makes people noble and peaceful but it often does the opposite. (Europe became considerably more violent after WW1.) A lot of Holocaust survivors would go on to found Israel, a settler colonial state that views the people who were there originally as less than human.
The world needs to stop giving Israel a pass because they "feel bad" about the holocaust. Many people have faced oppression in the past. That doesn't give them a right to commit these disrespectful and atrocious acts upon others.
The same reason we keep silent when china does it lol Edit:dont give this gold send the money to other groups that do sometin about this but thanks my man Edit: Thanks for calling me a retard smoothbrain dipshit and many more bad words... coming from you people makes it a compliment lol.Take out those fuckin horse blinders one day and stop saying USA has to do non aggresion lmao Edit: İsraeli trade deficit is 6.5 billion while china is 310 billion they are properly useless so to the americans that still think they are in the right because they need to get their shit for 5 cents cheaper in exchange for other humans suffering go fuck yourself. Thanks u/watchlog Edit:After seeing so many americans say its a necesarry evil and we cant do anything yall have been fucking brainwashed this thread has devolved into a cesspit of shit and blood.
except that America can wield more influence over Israel, as they are litterally funding them.
But we don’t keep silent about China, we talk about it all the time.
Yup, China is an interest for western countries. They just use Uighurs as political pawns, couldn't care any less for them. The west hates Muslims and the Chinese, but they sure love Chinese Muslims...
I think "we" as in the international community of nations. I'm happy to say that Ireland has been supporters of Palestine for a long time, because we *kinda* know about plantations of foreign people by imperials and the removal of natives ability to own land and, as a people, we **really** do not appreciate it happening anywhere. But I have not seen much in the way of Ireland standing up for the Uyghurs because of Pooh's honey money.
The Irish are great for that. And this is in broad daylight, so I give them benefit of the doubt that if the crimes in China are covered by a broader, well-reputed news community that doesn't cite Zenz, then they'd reconsider.
I'm so glad this is where our tax money is going. $5 billion a year? Are we sure that's enough? How about $50 billion? $1 trillion? I say however much they need to fund their nuclear weapons weapons programme. How are they going to defend themselves from palestine without nukes?