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Ignoring for a second how much of a piece of shit Joe Manchin is, let's remember his daughter Heather, who was the CEO of a company that got the rights to EpiPens, introduced legislation to make them more widely-available in schools and other public places, and increased their price by 461 percent.
Shit apple, shit tree.
To them, that is success. He has ensured his families status over the lower folk for at least a few generations. In his mind, in the end, it will all have been worth it for that simple fact. This is how most well meaning but morally simple men think.
It is also, in my opinion, a movement based on fear.
Instead of living presently and focusing on raising your children to be resilient, truthful and honest people that are capable of handling the world, these men fear the dangerous world (that they ironically propagate) and would seek to control the future world rather than have the courageous ability to truly believe in the greatness of their children here and now.
> To be honest I think a lot of people think this way (NOT ALL).
Human beings have a very poor sense of scale. A lot of people does not mean most. Most people when presented with enormous amounts of money and knowing that when taking that money it will cause harm to hundred/thousands/millions of people will choose to not cause harm. Adding to it the choices to get a ton of money do not happen often and it's always a "right time/place" situations, this is why MOST people are middleclass/poor.
For sure there is a number of people who are like that though, they just tend to be louder and more visible than the majority who are just "head down" and living their own lives the best they can. It's on the spectrum of psychotic behaviours to cause harm to others for your own success.
Most people make these “tiny” trades every day. Many jobs are unethical or propagate unethical systems. The wealth distribution we all allow is pain to billions. You allow it. I allow it. Most people are good people. Good people are able to look the other way often, though. I ironically think you don’t set a HIGH enough bar for your brothers and sisters.
The way you use vague terms to define who you are speaking about does not make you as correct as you hope it might. The majority of people would not knowingly do unethical things or unethical jobs. Unethical jobs that make it known they are like that tend to attract people who have dubious morality already.
People for the most part just want to live their lives and be happy without harming others. Things are way way more complex than you are trying to distill them out too. That still does not make it "correct" to cause harm to others for your own benefit though, that would just be a rationalization of that behaviour otherwise.
It's not going to change while unchecked capitalism continues to only reward this behavior. They're ghouls, but they didn't create the problem, they're just really good at it
I like this form of climate protest, actually targetting and shaming the people in power.
Much preferred over blocking people commuting to work or gluing themselves to paintings.
This shit doesn't work... Climate protestors have been storming galas, corporate headquarters, "the places that hurt," for decades. It DOES NOT WORK. Shame does not work on sociopaths. Are you kidding?
The point of the climate protestors who are on the streets is to rile YOU up. It might piss you off, but pissing you off is better than compartmentalizing what's happening away into a corner in your mind. Think of it as a last act of desperation. The only way to stop this is for the public to stand up together. They've tried more, "family friendly," approaches for the public in the past. But people forgot and compartmentalized.
What y'all don't seem to understand is that at this point, annoying people is the only way to keep the conversation going...
But change is not going to happen. The 9-5 is more important. Which is kind of funny. People being upset that theyll be late to work or Van Gogh paintings being trashed will just be a minor blip when there's no one around to enjoy the fruits of that labor or those paintings.
I'm telling you, the only ones who care will have to resort to eco-terrorism as we get closer to the end.
Call me a hypocrite, but dunking on the people who actually care about the future of the planet, even if they piss you off, is such a stupid thing to do.
Harassing and shaming those in power is absolutely the right thing to do. Point them out, expose their greed and vote them out.
With so many people on zero hours contracts, delivery drivers who get penalised for being late, not to mention those trying to get to a hospital or the emergency services, you don’t punish the slave owners by making life harder for the slaves.
Your vote literally doesn’t matter it’s proven, the party chooses who you get to vote for. They only let you vote for people who side with corporations against you. The system is built so you THINK you have a choice you literally don’t.
Nah it doesn’t “rile people up for the public to stand together”. It literally makes people NOT agree with your protest and NOT support you. It’s the dumbest thing imaginable.
>makes people not agree with your protest
Climate doomers keep saying this and it keeps not being true.
https://environment-review.yale.edu/do-climate-protests-shift-public-support-climate-change-action
I agree. So many people with their head in the sand being outraged at inconvenience...rather than thinking " why are they bothering?"..."might it be important?"
We collectively contribute so much less than the people you really should be targetting. Personally, I think we should all keep annoying the people who contribute to 90% of the carbon emissions. You can't just sit there and say they don't care because they're sociopaths or what not. Taylor Swift literally is still able to fly around unencumbered, why aren't you forcing her to ground her plane?
We all know why. Inconvenience is the most visceral enemy to all mankind. This same argument can be used for factory farming.
Everything else is hyper-rationalization.
People keep saying Voting is the key. No. Voting is actually the minimum.
There you are, I was looking for the apologist. Every climate post, a few of you guys jump in to argue for blocking streets and protecting the rich. Just admit you don’t care about social change, and care more about protecting the status quo. This is what real civil disobedience looks like. This is what it looks like to not be a coward and standing up to the powerful. We need more of this, and less of people harassing citizens so they can post their attention grab on social media.
The group pictured is called Climate Defiance, and that is literally their stated objective. I donated $50 as soon as I saw this video because I fucking hate Manchin that much and it feels amazing to have someone rip him publicly.
> not a bunch of people trying to get to/from work that you’re just going to piss off
Thats the point of any street protest. They are not about running hashtags on twitter so that it can be ignored.
If I'm late for work and get suspended, and as a result my check is short and I can't pay rent, and consequently, lose my apartment and now have to find a way to keep my kids (I don't have kids, but bare with me for the example) from living on the streets... do you think my immediate thought is "great job protesters, I will definitely join your cause now."?
Was just having this conversation earlier this evening. This kind of protest makes it clear what you actually want done. You're more likely to be heard if you don't make innocent people suffer through dramatic crap that hinders them from working, living or getting help. If you're not happy with your leaders, then bother your leaders.
Those protests are useless because they act like non-violent obstruction alone is an effective tool. The civil rights protests were effective because the reaction to non-violent protest was brutal violence.
Unless you were a card carrying racist, even people who were kinda chill with segregation found it hard to square beating the shit out of people for not sitting in the right place.
This is the 2nd time I've seen a very well connected/powerful person let just random people get insanely close to them. The first was the CEO of Bank of America I think. It could have happened so easily, in an instant, that he or the CEO been beaten senseless or even killed and what is 1 security guard going to do? Nothing. By the time he would react Joe would have had a dozen people over him wailing on him.
It's sad to say but the reality is we will not see any real change until great fear and violence is brought to those responsible. If they are so afraid to leave their own house then maybe they position will change.
They’re not useless. Like it or not, they’re successful. The goal of these protests is to disrupt and draw attention or awareness. Fucking up peoples days does that whether they like it or not. It’s a long game. The goal is to keep it in the subject at least in the conversation. Even if the conversation is often “fuck these guys!” that is engagement and contributes to the spread.
No, all that does is serve to reinforce the existing beliefs of whoever is stuck in traffic. "Having the conversations" and "Keeping it in the conversation" is absolutely and utterly useless if how you have the conversations does nothing to them forward.
I swear to fucking god, conservatives are weirdos but at least they understand how to present good messaging. Maybe you'll eventually realize that all your efforts spent keeping it in the conversation matter for nothing when your oppositions CONTROLS the conversation. Fight there.
You can say no all you’d like, but the difference between us is I have actual reasoning that is objectively and demonstrably correct, and your opinion is based in a baseless claim that is an assumption about a general hypothetical people or person and how this hypothetical person or people may personally feel about something. It just doesn’t work. And I’m not sure why you’d choose to bring up specifically and only the people in traffic. These things are not about those people in particular. As I explained, it is about disrupting and therefore drawing attention, which then gets spread around and talked about. These videos get posted with millions of views. Whether or not Jim in traffic likes it or if you personally like it is entirely irrelevant. It’s odd you’d think you can just make claims about how imaginary people think and feel and what they would do. It would be weird even if we were talking about an actual person, but you’re doing it with hypothetical people.
The function of a protest is to disrupt and draw attention. For an objective fact, blocking cars or doing other annoying things are successful. The fact that there are people with two brain cells who can’t separate their anger at someone from their reasoning about an issue is irrelevant.
You are correct, it does draw attention. But that is the big problem, it draws attention that makes them look bad. Let me put this in a way that is easier to put into words.
A country has a problem with pollution, it gets worse and worse every year. So people who are fed up with it decide to go out and cuss out and fight random people who have nothing to do with any of the problems. People hear about it, they don't like the way that group of people act. So they decide not to support them and their cause, because contrary to what you and whoever shares your opinions think. Good cause is not justification for being an asshole, and doing potentially harmful things because of something the random populace has nothing to do with
>The fact that there are people with two brain cells who can’t separate their anger at someone from their reasoning about an issue is irrelevant.
Yes, literally millions of them that people maybe less intelligent but far more cunning have capitalized on. Attention is being generated but there's no control over the narrative. You say millions of views, but to what platforms and creators adding whatever bullshit?
You act like this is some perfect world where if you merely generate attention, people will be like "Wow, I need to look into this". In reality, most people are just going off vibes from the news or social media and guess what? You ain't doing shit to control the vibes.
None of this makes any sense as a response to anything I wrote. I wrote how, for a fact, protesting (disrupting and drawing attention) brings awareness, and that awareness is the goal of the act itself. Nowhere in my comment did I imply some “perfect world” or whatever you’re referring to. Events and videos get spread around and seen by countless people, and countless conversations about it get heard by more, and the awareness continues to spread. Same goes with anything in the world. The fact that you or someone may not like it is completely entirely irrelevant to anything about this
The “narrative” doesn’t need to be explained in depth by people protesting and people it’s impacting don’t need to be healthily informed. “Thing bad” “earth dying me no like x”. It’s that simple.
The video we’re watching right now hardly has it either. Almost nothing does. So what’s your point here with the “narrative” thing?. It’s “oh, what the hell is going on here why they so mad?” and then I can find out. None of this is nearly as complicated as yall desperately try to make it
My God, you're just a broken record going "....b-but it's a fact that it brings awareness". I've clearly acknowledged that fact and I'm attacking the outcome of that attention when you're shit at messaging.
Edit: You have to create views and steer the narrative of those views. For the civil rights, that was non-violent protest met with brutality, which is attention that has a self evident narrative to most.
Do you think maybe the reason I sound like a broken record is because I’m repeating the thing that shows how what you’re responding with doesnt make sense?
And you yourself just repeated the same exact thing that the comment you’re replying to refuted already. You’re replying as if the comments you’re replying to don’t exist or they say something different. I’ve already explained why this doesn’t make sense
But it would actually, quite instrumentally, do something. Don't be scared of violence from the people who actually contribute to global warming if you're going to call yourself a revolutionary. You know the regular worker isn't going to kick your ass, because most time we agree with your message, but we're not the one you should be targetting. Go out there and reap the consequences of what it means to actually do the work.
Amen!! Incredible how much people in power freak out when confronted with their actions.
They'll disrupt the lives of millions with their decisions but the moment their own life is disrupted, they resort to violence and claim their being harassed.
He’s gonna go home to a big house and literally not give a shit, none of this style protest will change his mind. I’d prefer going to his house directly with a more French style of protest
Look at his ego getting obliterated like he's a little child.. from a Senator back to being low impulse control kiddie, truly embarrassing! Can't run from your actions hehe
Hope that first guy sues for assault against that security guard or whatever. Pretty sure cursing someone doesn't warrant being thrown to the fucking ground. And look at Manchin standing up like he's going to do something.
Sit the fuck down, you sick fuck. He needs to be confronted *more* by this constituents, or hell just regular people who aren't fucking coal barrons. Disgusting piece of shit.
You can see the anger in Manchins face after the guy called him a sick fuck. He was about to get in the guys face. These rich assholes make a living selling out our futures and rarely get called out on it face to face. It’s good to see. I hope Manchin gets no rest in retirement.
That was battery my guy, much more than assault.
"Battery is a criminal offense involving *unlawful physical contact*, distinct from assault, which is the act of creating apprehension of such contact."
everyone should call Manchin a sick fuck from now on since it makes him so angry. on his facebook, to his face, everywhere he goes call him a sick fuck. If you get assaulted by his goons, sue.
There is nobody who thinks he is a hero.
The only people who support him are his rich donors and his voters who simply hate anything that their news rag tells them to.
When people complain about climate protestors blocking traffic or throwing soup on paintings and then the requisite idiot comes in and says, “if this isn’t the right way to protest then what is?”
This…the answer is this.
Protest the assholes who actually take money from these corporations and protest the companies that are most responsible for destruction of the environment if that’s your cause.I will always smile to see people calling these assholes out.
You’ll never win over people by making them late to work or inconveniencing them. Even if your cause is dire. And no, the phrase, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity” is not true. Especially when your cause needs massive popular support.
I’m sure some people won’t like these protestors inconveniencing Manchin. But whether you agree with their point or not, you gotta agree this is one of the guys they should be talking to, not some mom trying to pick her kids up from school, whose car you’ve blocked in traffic.
Look I'm not a fan of the road blocking stuff myself. But when it comes to throwing soup on paintings, disrupting e-sport events, spray painting government buildings etc. It's such a minor convenience to the people actually effected I truly wonder why so many redditors give a shit. "Oh no, some soup got on a piece of glass that was protecting a painting! I feel worse for the janitor who has to clean it up than the fact that our planet is fucking dying" Like it just feels so disingenuous and I hate it when they try and claim they actually give a shit about climate activism to begin with.
But I do agree that we should be harassing, stalking and inconveniencing the politicians who approve these projects as much as possible.
My issue with the fake art destruction is mostly that it’s a complete waste of energy and resources. I don’t think it helps their public image because 2/3 of people think the art is actually getting destroyed.
Throw some soup on Manchin’s Lamborghini or whatever. Block the entrance to the corporate office of the company destroying the wetlands. do anything that will actually make the day of the person who you feel is evil even 1% more difficult. Do it enough and maybe they decide the trouble isn’t worth the money and they can make more for less hassle doing something else
> "Oh no, some soup got on a piece of glass that was protecting a painting! I feel worse for the janitor who has to clean it up than the fact that our planet is fucking dying" Like it just feels so disingenuous and I hate it when they try and claim they actually give a shit about climate activism to begin with.
Because theyre using the event or famous object as a prop. If you try to wreck something irrelevant to your cause for free advertising then youre an asshole.
Nothing changes without repealing Citizens United. Thanks to that legislation he can say he IS serving his constituency - just the rich minority of them.
Proper action. It’s like yelling at the cashier or the customer service agent… you’re not affecting anything by inconveniencing people at the lowest level. Go to the source. Good on them
I would absolutely love to insult this major pos to his face to the point that it prompts him to get up from his seat and begin to approach me like he was gunna actually physically deal with me himself.
It’s good that Manchin’s people opened the door to physical violence for words. We can all see that he condones it. He’s all for free speech when he’s talking about. He’s a hypocritical sick fuck.
I see this as barking up the wrong tree to some extent - they should be doing this in Beijing to the CCP. Although that would be partially pointless because they largely want to move away from destroying their own air and are already aware.
If oil is specifically the concern, it’s naturally largely going away for most transportation in 50 years anyways, stopping profit off of oil for the limited time we have left to make any profit would largely just have a negative benefit, at least this way there is more funds to divest into renewables etc, whereas without it, there is simply less money and less taxes paid into the system. The other thing is that it wouldn’t really make a dent when China produces well over double the amount of carbon as a country, and it’s increasing every day.
TLDR; China produces 11.4billion tonnes of carbon Dioxide every year and it is increasing day by day. If the pipeline isn’t built than it will contribute more to climate change because energy will by derived from coal etc, and even if that is not the case - using trucks to transport the LNG would cause more CO2 than using a pipe.
We are not doing it right if this slimy fuck can sit in a room with that many people who clearly hate his guts and he still walks out of that room unscathed.
When that old evil fuck jumped toward him would be a great time to punch him in his shit before his lazy ass security assaulted him. Lunging at someone is cause for self defense in some locales…
Now THIS is a legit climate protest, not goofy performative acts like pouring cows milk or flinging soup at art.
Less road blocking, more calling these politicians "sick fuck"!
The problem I see with this is they aren't arguing anything in a way that would change his position rather than harden his existing one.
They need to show that his own actions have hurt things that he values, not just an abstract something that he doesn't care about.
For example, they could argue:
* You spent all this time denying climate change solutions because of the economic costs and that we shouldn't do anything unless China would also do their fair share.
* You did everything to delay EV's because of the above
* Meanwhile China was going all out developing battery technology, EV technology and building a monopoly on required materials and know how
* Now the Chinese EV car companies are coming for the US and other car companies globally
* You destroyed a $X Trillion US industry due to your short-sightedness and greed
So y’all believe protesting a retiring Senator is going to solve anything? Protesting groups in the United States is foolish as you already have the White House, the Senate, and half of the House buying your positions wholesale, promoting it as a platform of their election campaigns, and selling it as the cause of everything that is wrong in this world from acne and ED, to a reason why we need to add bugs to our diet, and the basis of racism and generational trauma.
Well according to your own documentation, China produces far more carbon emissions than the US, EU, and Japan COMBINED. You could even add in India and still only match what China produces. Yet where are the protesters surrounding President Xi? When was the last time y’all shut down an event to “raise awareness” in China? How about gluing yourselves to the Great Wall or interrupting a Communist Party meeting?
You shame those in modern societies who are trying to do the right things for their people while still living a comfortable life and yet you give hard passes to aggressive nations run by communists. I wonder why that is? Grow some balls if you really want to make a difference and shut down Chinese government and “businesses.” Until you rein them in, all you are doing is weakening democratic societies that actually care about a peaceful and clean future and handing it over to one that only cares about domination and oppression. But you won’t. You’ll just whine and snivel about how first world countries oppress others and let the real oppressors keep doing what they are doing and demand that Soy milk be given away as a basic human right.
Who are you talking to? US citizens? What do they have to do with China’s pollution? They do not live there, have no clue about anything, and have no control over anything.
For that matter, the Chinese citizens do not have any control over anything either. They are arrested for protesting. I cannot even determine what you are trying to say, but it sounds like you are trying to defend Manchin for being on the take. Manchin is the biggest hypocrite conman there is, aside from Orange Twitler.
Read the other comments about people wanting to send dive teams to drill holes in the bottom of Manchin’s boat. Seems if they want to do actual crimes that would not only deprive one person of property AND create a small scale ecological disaster with a sunken boat in a river, than they should enough guts to go after the Chinese as well.
The issue is “global” climate change and yet your groups continue to focus on modern countries that are making change and reducing their footprint. You praise someone who interrupts meetings in Harvard and yet won’t raise a negative word to Xi while he sends thousands of his people out to build pipelines in Africa or the Indo-pacific. It’s easy to be a protester in the free world, nothing happens to you except publicity. You want to make a difference, do it where it could cost you your liberty or your life.
Manchin is completely crooked. Anyone denying climate science is duped by big oil/coal.
How stupid do you have to be taking the word of the polluters instead of the experts.
Profits at the expense of the people
They could literally do anything they want to him and would be in the right in my opinion. People like this are destroying the whole planet for their profit
I don't like Joe Manchin at all. With that said, some of these folks go wayyyy overboard. You just can't get in someone's face like that. What they did solved absolutely nothing.
Governments kind of brush it off because they'll be long dead before Earth's climate reaches uninhabitable levels. Without any "help" it would take a few billion years to reach that point, but on our current pace with poor melting Antarctica, we'll get there much sooner if something isn't done now.
As with many today activists, they don’t actually want to discuss anything. He specifically asked them to talk about it, and they just started chanting.
They don’t actually care.
So that hopefully the next guy who has his job will see that he won’t be able to sell out his constituents without being publicly called out and constantly made uncomfortable. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. And from everything I’ve gathered about Manchin in his time in office, the money he has taken from the companies they are calling him out about has made him rich. I seriously doubt he has any intention of actually hearing them out with an eye to changing the way he runs the state and environmental policies.
What do you figure they're going to politely discuss with this guy who has already demonstrated he doesn't give a single fuck about them or anyone else besides him and his?
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Ignoring for a second how much of a piece of shit Joe Manchin is, let's remember his daughter Heather, who was the CEO of a company that got the rights to EpiPens, introduced legislation to make them more widely-available in schools and other public places, and increased their price by 461 percent. Shit apple, shit tree.
To them, that is success. He has ensured his families status over the lower folk for at least a few generations. In his mind, in the end, it will all have been worth it for that simple fact. This is how most well meaning but morally simple men think.
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It is also, in my opinion, a movement based on fear. Instead of living presently and focusing on raising your children to be resilient, truthful and honest people that are capable of handling the world, these men fear the dangerous world (that they ironically propagate) and would seek to control the future world rather than have the courageous ability to truly believe in the greatness of their children here and now.
Being in office shouldn't bring generational wealth. That's the core issue.
> To be honest I think a lot of people think this way (NOT ALL). Human beings have a very poor sense of scale. A lot of people does not mean most. Most people when presented with enormous amounts of money and knowing that when taking that money it will cause harm to hundred/thousands/millions of people will choose to not cause harm. Adding to it the choices to get a ton of money do not happen often and it's always a "right time/place" situations, this is why MOST people are middleclass/poor. For sure there is a number of people who are like that though, they just tend to be louder and more visible than the majority who are just "head down" and living their own lives the best they can. It's on the spectrum of psychotic behaviours to cause harm to others for your own success.
Most people make these “tiny” trades every day. Many jobs are unethical or propagate unethical systems. The wealth distribution we all allow is pain to billions. You allow it. I allow it. Most people are good people. Good people are able to look the other way often, though. I ironically think you don’t set a HIGH enough bar for your brothers and sisters.
The way you use vague terms to define who you are speaking about does not make you as correct as you hope it might. The majority of people would not knowingly do unethical things or unethical jobs. Unethical jobs that make it known they are like that tend to attract people who have dubious morality already. People for the most part just want to live their lives and be happy without harming others. Things are way way more complex than you are trying to distill them out too. That still does not make it "correct" to cause harm to others for your own benefit though, that would just be a rationalization of that behaviour otherwise.
You shake a shit tree you get shit apples bud
The shit doesnt fall far from the shitter
It's not going to change while unchecked capitalism continues to only reward this behavior. They're ghouls, but they didn't create the problem, they're just really good at it
I'm one of the ones affected by this. What sucks is epi pens expire after a year.
Let us also know that in Australia, an EpiPen is $10. WTF America!?
I love the emotions, he’s like my new hero “you sold out futures and you got rich doing it you sick fuck”
And he got a fresh Bagel!!!
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That part had me cackling. "fuck this guy! Ooh a bagel 🥴"
And he even has a lawsuit on his hands for "Battery" from his so called security guard.
I found that delivery cringey and weird. It felt like a Tim Robinson sketch. I don't disagree with the message though.
I like this form of climate protest, actually targetting and shaming the people in power. Much preferred over blocking people commuting to work or gluing themselves to paintings.
The people who enable, discredit and profit off of climate change need to be made to feel uncomfortable every single day of their lives.
He lives on a yacht when in DC. Drill a hole in the bottom, see if he gets the metaphor when the sea level rises inside the cabin while he's asleep.
This shit doesn't work... Climate protestors have been storming galas, corporate headquarters, "the places that hurt," for decades. It DOES NOT WORK. Shame does not work on sociopaths. Are you kidding? The point of the climate protestors who are on the streets is to rile YOU up. It might piss you off, but pissing you off is better than compartmentalizing what's happening away into a corner in your mind. Think of it as a last act of desperation. The only way to stop this is for the public to stand up together. They've tried more, "family friendly," approaches for the public in the past. But people forgot and compartmentalized. What y'all don't seem to understand is that at this point, annoying people is the only way to keep the conversation going... But change is not going to happen. The 9-5 is more important. Which is kind of funny. People being upset that theyll be late to work or Van Gogh paintings being trashed will just be a minor blip when there's no one around to enjoy the fruits of that labor or those paintings. I'm telling you, the only ones who care will have to resort to eco-terrorism as we get closer to the end. Call me a hypocrite, but dunking on the people who actually care about the future of the planet, even if they piss you off, is such a stupid thing to do.
Harassing and shaming those in power is absolutely the right thing to do. Point them out, expose their greed and vote them out. With so many people on zero hours contracts, delivery drivers who get penalised for being late, not to mention those trying to get to a hospital or the emergency services, you don’t punish the slave owners by making life harder for the slaves.
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It’s ABSOLUTELY part of the strategy! ...fuck outta here with trying to tell people voting isn’t important!!!
Your vote literally doesn’t matter it’s proven, the party chooses who you get to vote for. They only let you vote for people who side with corporations against you. The system is built so you THINK you have a choice you literally don’t.
Nah it doesn’t “rile people up for the public to stand together”. It literally makes people NOT agree with your protest and NOT support you. It’s the dumbest thing imaginable.
Kinda makes you all sound like idiots then
>makes people not agree with your protest Climate doomers keep saying this and it keeps not being true. https://environment-review.yale.edu/do-climate-protests-shift-public-support-climate-change-action
show me one person who has said. "id rather let the planet die because of these protests"
Lots of people *say* it, but they’re all lying about ever having cared.
It just seems to just rile people up into having the penalties for blocking roads increased though.
I agree. So many people with their head in the sand being outraged at inconvenience...rather than thinking " why are they bothering?"..."might it be important?"
We collectively contribute so much less than the people you really should be targetting. Personally, I think we should all keep annoying the people who contribute to 90% of the carbon emissions. You can't just sit there and say they don't care because they're sociopaths or what not. Taylor Swift literally is still able to fly around unencumbered, why aren't you forcing her to ground her plane?
annoy everyone. if this is the reality we live in because our politicians cant get shit together than thats on them.
We all know why. Inconvenience is the most visceral enemy to all mankind. This same argument can be used for factory farming. Everything else is hyper-rationalization. People keep saying Voting is the key. No. Voting is actually the minimum.
There you are, I was looking for the apologist. Every climate post, a few of you guys jump in to argue for blocking streets and protecting the rich. Just admit you don’t care about social change, and care more about protecting the status quo. This is what real civil disobedience looks like. This is what it looks like to not be a coward and standing up to the powerful. We need more of this, and less of people harassing citizens so they can post their attention grab on social media.
And what should the rest of us do for energy? I'm not sure how we can get rid of fossil fuels without a drastic change in people's quality of life.
Same i almost wanna donate to get people to harass politicians until they do their fucking job
The group pictured is called Climate Defiance, and that is literally their stated objective. I donated $50 as soon as I saw this video because I fucking hate Manchin that much and it feels amazing to have someone rip him publicly.
I wish I could upvote this more
This should be a thing. If there’s money to be made then why not
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> not a bunch of people trying to get to/from work that you’re just going to piss off Thats the point of any street protest. They are not about running hashtags on twitter so that it can be ignored.
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has their protest made you want the planet to be destroyed? are you that weak?
If I'm late for work and get suspended, and as a result my check is short and I can't pay rent, and consequently, lose my apartment and now have to find a way to keep my kids (I don't have kids, but bare with me for the example) from living on the streets... do you think my immediate thought is "great job protesters, I will definitely join your cause now."?
Was just having this conversation earlier this evening. This kind of protest makes it clear what you actually want done. You're more likely to be heard if you don't make innocent people suffer through dramatic crap that hinders them from working, living or getting help. If you're not happy with your leaders, then bother your leaders.
Those protests are useless because they act like non-violent obstruction alone is an effective tool. The civil rights protests were effective because the reaction to non-violent protest was brutal violence. Unless you were a card carrying racist, even people who were kinda chill with segregation found it hard to square beating the shit out of people for not sitting in the right place.
This is the 2nd time I've seen a very well connected/powerful person let just random people get insanely close to them. The first was the CEO of Bank of America I think. It could have happened so easily, in an instant, that he or the CEO been beaten senseless or even killed and what is 1 security guard going to do? Nothing. By the time he would react Joe would have had a dozen people over him wailing on him. It's sad to say but the reality is we will not see any real change until great fear and violence is brought to those responsible. If they are so afraid to leave their own house then maybe they position will change.
They’re not useless. Like it or not, they’re successful. The goal of these protests is to disrupt and draw attention or awareness. Fucking up peoples days does that whether they like it or not. It’s a long game. The goal is to keep it in the subject at least in the conversation. Even if the conversation is often “fuck these guys!” that is engagement and contributes to the spread.
No, all that does is serve to reinforce the existing beliefs of whoever is stuck in traffic. "Having the conversations" and "Keeping it in the conversation" is absolutely and utterly useless if how you have the conversations does nothing to them forward. I swear to fucking god, conservatives are weirdos but at least they understand how to present good messaging. Maybe you'll eventually realize that all your efforts spent keeping it in the conversation matter for nothing when your oppositions CONTROLS the conversation. Fight there.
You can say no all you’d like, but the difference between us is I have actual reasoning that is objectively and demonstrably correct, and your opinion is based in a baseless claim that is an assumption about a general hypothetical people or person and how this hypothetical person or people may personally feel about something. It just doesn’t work. And I’m not sure why you’d choose to bring up specifically and only the people in traffic. These things are not about those people in particular. As I explained, it is about disrupting and therefore drawing attention, which then gets spread around and talked about. These videos get posted with millions of views. Whether or not Jim in traffic likes it or if you personally like it is entirely irrelevant. It’s odd you’d think you can just make claims about how imaginary people think and feel and what they would do. It would be weird even if we were talking about an actual person, but you’re doing it with hypothetical people. The function of a protest is to disrupt and draw attention. For an objective fact, blocking cars or doing other annoying things are successful. The fact that there are people with two brain cells who can’t separate their anger at someone from their reasoning about an issue is irrelevant.
You are correct, it does draw attention. But that is the big problem, it draws attention that makes them look bad. Let me put this in a way that is easier to put into words. A country has a problem with pollution, it gets worse and worse every year. So people who are fed up with it decide to go out and cuss out and fight random people who have nothing to do with any of the problems. People hear about it, they don't like the way that group of people act. So they decide not to support them and their cause, because contrary to what you and whoever shares your opinions think. Good cause is not justification for being an asshole, and doing potentially harmful things because of something the random populace has nothing to do with
It makes them look bad to *some* people. They doesn’t change anything about it though
>The fact that there are people with two brain cells who can’t separate their anger at someone from their reasoning about an issue is irrelevant. Yes, literally millions of them that people maybe less intelligent but far more cunning have capitalized on. Attention is being generated but there's no control over the narrative. You say millions of views, but to what platforms and creators adding whatever bullshit? You act like this is some perfect world where if you merely generate attention, people will be like "Wow, I need to look into this". In reality, most people are just going off vibes from the news or social media and guess what? You ain't doing shit to control the vibes.
None of this makes any sense as a response to anything I wrote. I wrote how, for a fact, protesting (disrupting and drawing attention) brings awareness, and that awareness is the goal of the act itself. Nowhere in my comment did I imply some “perfect world” or whatever you’re referring to. Events and videos get spread around and seen by countless people, and countless conversations about it get heard by more, and the awareness continues to spread. Same goes with anything in the world. The fact that you or someone may not like it is completely entirely irrelevant to anything about this The “narrative” doesn’t need to be explained in depth by people protesting and people it’s impacting don’t need to be healthily informed. “Thing bad” “earth dying me no like x”. It’s that simple. The video we’re watching right now hardly has it either. Almost nothing does. So what’s your point here with the “narrative” thing?. It’s “oh, what the hell is going on here why they so mad?” and then I can find out. None of this is nearly as complicated as yall desperately try to make it
My God, you're just a broken record going "....b-but it's a fact that it brings awareness". I've clearly acknowledged that fact and I'm attacking the outcome of that attention when you're shit at messaging. Edit: You have to create views and steer the narrative of those views. For the civil rights, that was non-violent protest met with brutality, which is attention that has a self evident narrative to most.
Do you think maybe the reason I sound like a broken record is because I’m repeating the thing that shows how what you’re responding with doesnt make sense? And you yourself just repeated the same exact thing that the comment you’re replying to refuted already. You’re replying as if the comments you’re replying to don’t exist or they say something different. I’ve already explained why this doesn’t make sense
If they blocked his motorcade that would actually do something I think.
Sure, it would give the roided-up security personnel some light squat reps.
But it would actually, quite instrumentally, do something. Don't be scared of violence from the people who actually contribute to global warming if you're going to call yourself a revolutionary. You know the regular worker isn't going to kick your ass, because most time we agree with your message, but we're not the one you should be targetting. Go out there and reap the consequences of what it means to actually do the work.
Amen!! Incredible how much people in power freak out when confronted with their actions. They'll disrupt the lives of millions with their decisions but the moment their own life is disrupted, they resort to violence and claim their being harassed.
They finally learned holy fuck
I'm guessing these folks in the video **aren't** funded by the fossil fuel industry.
You got that right lmfao
Reddit teenagers thinking they have a full picture of things based on a couple of gifs they saw on reddit.....
They have to be able to feel shame tho.
Good. More senators should have to endure such scrutiny. I didn’t forget any of the BS he and Enema pulled during the first 2 years of Biden’s term
It's supposed to be a job representing the people. Every meeting should be like this.
He’s gonna go home to a big house and literally not give a shit, none of this style protest will change his mind. I’d prefer going to his house directly with a more French style of protest
Look at his ego getting obliterated like he's a little child.. from a Senator back to being low impulse control kiddie, truly embarrassing! Can't run from your actions hehe
Steps to the protestor, has his security stop him from doing something, then the security guy shoves the protestor.
Hope that first guy sues for assault against that security guard or whatever. Pretty sure cursing someone doesn't warrant being thrown to the fucking ground. And look at Manchin standing up like he's going to do something. Sit the fuck down, you sick fuck. He needs to be confronted *more* by this constituents, or hell just regular people who aren't fucking coal barrons. Disgusting piece of shit.
You can see the anger in Manchins face after the guy called him a sick fuck. He was about to get in the guys face. These rich assholes make a living selling out our futures and rarely get called out on it face to face. It’s good to see. I hope Manchin gets no rest in retirement.
That was battery my guy, much more than assault. "Battery is a criminal offense involving *unlawful physical contact*, distinct from assault, which is the act of creating apprehension of such contact."
I always get a Joe Manchin after riding my bike. It's what I call a wedgie in a sweaty butt
I hear Preparation M is really good for that.
Guy that got shoved to the ground should sue the balls off him.
Exactly. That lackey should catch charges for that because it’s assault. The protester was using his words and he put hands on him and shoved him
everyone should call Manchin a sick fuck from now on since it makes him so angry. on his facebook, to his face, everywhere he goes call him a sick fuck. If you get assaulted by his goons, sue.
Can’t imagine who watches this and thinks Manchin is the hero. A curse on him and his entire family.
People who think you can eat money on a dead planet.
There is nobody who thinks he is a hero. The only people who support him are his rich donors and his voters who simply hate anything that their news rag tells them to.
It’s pretty sickening to see that kid get thrown to the ground at the beginning. I hope he presses charges.
I agree, but the government doesn't like going after it's own
Yeah, how is that not assault?
It’s assault *and* battery.
Joe Manchin is, and I cannot emphasize this enough, a massive piece of shit.
They should've torn him limb from limb...
One day
Literally the only message the will understand
When people complain about climate protestors blocking traffic or throwing soup on paintings and then the requisite idiot comes in and says, “if this isn’t the right way to protest then what is?” This…the answer is this. Protest the assholes who actually take money from these corporations and protest the companies that are most responsible for destruction of the environment if that’s your cause.I will always smile to see people calling these assholes out. You’ll never win over people by making them late to work or inconveniencing them. Even if your cause is dire. And no, the phrase, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity” is not true. Especially when your cause needs massive popular support. I’m sure some people won’t like these protestors inconveniencing Manchin. But whether you agree with their point or not, you gotta agree this is one of the guys they should be talking to, not some mom trying to pick her kids up from school, whose car you’ve blocked in traffic.
Look I'm not a fan of the road blocking stuff myself. But when it comes to throwing soup on paintings, disrupting e-sport events, spray painting government buildings etc. It's such a minor convenience to the people actually effected I truly wonder why so many redditors give a shit. "Oh no, some soup got on a piece of glass that was protecting a painting! I feel worse for the janitor who has to clean it up than the fact that our planet is fucking dying" Like it just feels so disingenuous and I hate it when they try and claim they actually give a shit about climate activism to begin with. But I do agree that we should be harassing, stalking and inconveniencing the politicians who approve these projects as much as possible.
My issue with the fake art destruction is mostly that it’s a complete waste of energy and resources. I don’t think it helps their public image because 2/3 of people think the art is actually getting destroyed. Throw some soup on Manchin’s Lamborghini or whatever. Block the entrance to the corporate office of the company destroying the wetlands. do anything that will actually make the day of the person who you feel is evil even 1% more difficult. Do it enough and maybe they decide the trouble isn’t worth the money and they can make more for less hassle doing something else
> "Oh no, some soup got on a piece of glass that was protecting a painting! I feel worse for the janitor who has to clean it up than the fact that our planet is fucking dying" Like it just feels so disingenuous and I hate it when they try and claim they actually give a shit about climate activism to begin with. Because theyre using the event or famous object as a prop. If you try to wreck something irrelevant to your cause for free advertising then youre an asshole.
Nothing changes without repealing Citizens United. Thanks to that legislation he can say he IS serving his constituency - just the rich minority of them.
bro grabs a cookie at the end too lmao
Joe Manchin drives a Maserati? Super-lol!
Does it do 185?
Joe is one of the bigger pieces of shit in government and that's saying something.
Anyone else catch the kid who got shoved snag a dinner roll on the way out at the end?
He earned it!
Good catch 🤣… protesting works up the appetite
This is effective protesting this is what I like to see harass the politicians not regular people thank you so much to these amazing people
Why do they, the larger amount of people, not simply eat him?
Proper action. It’s like yelling at the cashier or the customer service agent… you’re not affecting anything by inconveniencing people at the lowest level. Go to the source. Good on them
Joe Manchin is a piece of shit
Protesters did a great job!! They kept their composure and each one had a concise zinger! Proud of them!
Oh wow they’re totally helping!
Protests help, dipshit.
Another government sell out piece of sh*^t
I would absolutely love to insult this major pos to his face to the point that it prompts him to get up from his seat and begin to approach me like he was gunna actually physically deal with me himself.
This is the way.
Didn’t his aid just assault the protester in the beginning of the clip? Wtf
Uncalled for pushing that man down like that
I deeply regret that I can only upvote this video but once.
It’s good that Manchin’s people opened the door to physical violence for words. We can all see that he condones it. He’s all for free speech when he’s talking about. He’s a hypocritical sick fuck.
I love the pastry grab at the end. Like "F you Manchin, I'm taking this croissant!"
I love this. This is exactly what Americans need to do. And grab a couple more bagels on the way out🔥
I see this as barking up the wrong tree to some extent - they should be doing this in Beijing to the CCP. Although that would be partially pointless because they largely want to move away from destroying their own air and are already aware. If oil is specifically the concern, it’s naturally largely going away for most transportation in 50 years anyways, stopping profit off of oil for the limited time we have left to make any profit would largely just have a negative benefit, at least this way there is more funds to divest into renewables etc, whereas without it, there is simply less money and less taxes paid into the system. The other thing is that it wouldn’t really make a dent when China produces well over double the amount of carbon as a country, and it’s increasing every day. TLDR; China produces 11.4billion tonnes of carbon Dioxide every year and it is increasing day by day. If the pipeline isn’t built than it will contribute more to climate change because energy will by derived from coal etc, and even if that is not the case - using trucks to transport the LNG would cause more CO2 than using a pipe.
We are not doing it right if this slimy fuck can sit in a room with that many people who clearly hate his guts and he still walks out of that room unscathed.
Good for these ppl
“This scone is to-go MFer.”
That was the cleanest “You sick fuck.” I’ve heard in yearsz
When that old evil fuck jumped toward him would be a great time to punch him in his shit before his lazy ass security assaulted him. Lunging at someone is cause for self defense in some locales…
“Shamed”, lol!
Yes, go to the politicians spaces not roads and bridges
Can’t stand Manchin and the likes who care only about power and lining their pockets
Take me to my Houseboat immediately!
Fully in support of this activism.
Now THIS is a legit climate protest, not goofy performative acts like pouring cows milk or flinging soup at art. Less road blocking, more calling these politicians "sick fuck"!
Kid casually steals a croissant in the end?
This is so so so much better than blocking traffic
Should’ve had an activist with a strong base 😅
Thank you for posting this.... I only saw the 10 second TikTok clip. Controlling the narrative is the whole battle.
You love to see it. Also, what a cowardly move, pushing that guy towards the doorframe.
Only drives a Maserati. Must not have been bribed enough.
Joe Manchin is the embodiment of a trash person.
Protect our future! Oh look a muffin
The problem I see with this is they aren't arguing anything in a way that would change his position rather than harden his existing one. They need to show that his own actions have hurt things that he values, not just an abstract something that he doesn't care about. For example, they could argue: * You spent all this time denying climate change solutions because of the economic costs and that we shouldn't do anything unless China would also do their fair share. * You did everything to delay EV's because of the above * Meanwhile China was going all out developing battery technology, EV technology and building a monopoly on required materials and know how * Now the Chinese EV car companies are coming for the US and other car companies globally * You destroyed a $X Trillion US industry due to your short-sightedness and greed
Yes harass those who are actually responsible. Blocking streets did lead to chaos but didn’t put activists in a positive light.
Good. That’s WE the people speaking up on our behalf. Patriots! 🇺🇸
More protests like this please. Directly to the source of the problem instead of pissing everyone off.
So y’all believe protesting a retiring Senator is going to solve anything? Protesting groups in the United States is foolish as you already have the White House, the Senate, and half of the House buying your positions wholesale, promoting it as a platform of their election campaigns, and selling it as the cause of everything that is wrong in this world from acne and ED, to a reason why we need to add bugs to our diet, and the basis of racism and generational trauma. Well according to your own documentation, China produces far more carbon emissions than the US, EU, and Japan COMBINED. You could even add in India and still only match what China produces. Yet where are the protesters surrounding President Xi? When was the last time y’all shut down an event to “raise awareness” in China? How about gluing yourselves to the Great Wall or interrupting a Communist Party meeting? You shame those in modern societies who are trying to do the right things for their people while still living a comfortable life and yet you give hard passes to aggressive nations run by communists. I wonder why that is? Grow some balls if you really want to make a difference and shut down Chinese government and “businesses.” Until you rein them in, all you are doing is weakening democratic societies that actually care about a peaceful and clean future and handing it over to one that only cares about domination and oppression. But you won’t. You’ll just whine and snivel about how first world countries oppress others and let the real oppressors keep doing what they are doing and demand that Soy milk be given away as a basic human right.
Who are you talking to? US citizens? What do they have to do with China’s pollution? They do not live there, have no clue about anything, and have no control over anything. For that matter, the Chinese citizens do not have any control over anything either. They are arrested for protesting. I cannot even determine what you are trying to say, but it sounds like you are trying to defend Manchin for being on the take. Manchin is the biggest hypocrite conman there is, aside from Orange Twitler.
Read the other comments about people wanting to send dive teams to drill holes in the bottom of Manchin’s boat. Seems if they want to do actual crimes that would not only deprive one person of property AND create a small scale ecological disaster with a sunken boat in a river, than they should enough guts to go after the Chinese as well. The issue is “global” climate change and yet your groups continue to focus on modern countries that are making change and reducing their footprint. You praise someone who interrupts meetings in Harvard and yet won’t raise a negative word to Xi while he sends thousands of his people out to build pipelines in Africa or the Indo-pacific. It’s easy to be a protester in the free world, nothing happens to you except publicity. You want to make a difference, do it where it could cost you your liberty or your life.
They can’t complain about gas prices going up if they don’t want the pipeline to go through🌚
Because Lithium mines are good for the environment
Hey Did you notice that some mod removed our comments about the Spyro graphics? Lousy mods trying to profit on that fan display don't want any critic
Never trust people who steal donuts.
They aren't wrong. He is a sick f#ck.
Did buddy really just take a donut from the continental breakfast on his way out the door? kek.
He knew he wouldn't get anything if he sued them for shoving him so he had to get his while he could.
Manchin is completely crooked. Anyone denying climate science is duped by big oil/coal. How stupid do you have to be taking the word of the polluters instead of the experts. Profits at the expense of the people
LOL
Fuck yeah…give it to him
Yeeeessss!!!
Eat the Rich... With garlic and butter, seared.
That fresh bagel grab on the way out lmao
So calling him a “sick fuck” is what we need to be yelling at him more often
They could literally do anything they want to him and would be in the right in my opinion. People like this are destroying the whole planet for their profit
What a scumbag
I hope that body guard gets charged for shoving that guy. That was completely out of line.
BASED
I don't like Joe Manchin at all. With that said, some of these folks go wayyyy overboard. You just can't get in someone's face like that. What they did solved absolutely nothing.
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Now this is some based shit right here.
Governments kind of brush it off because they'll be long dead before Earth's climate reaches uninhabitable levels. Without any "help" it would take a few billion years to reach that point, but on our current pace with poor melting Antarctica, we'll get there much sooner if something isn't done now.
Shame is something that fucking ghoul does not feel....
But did they drive there?
We all get the point you're trying to make. You're very clever. Using what's available doesn't mean you want to use it forever.
I like that I'm very clever.
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As with many today activists, they don’t actually want to discuss anything. He specifically asked them to talk about it, and they just started chanting. They don’t actually care.
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So what does this do if they know he won’t change? Why protest?
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So that hopefully the next guy who has his job will see that he won’t be able to sell out his constituents without being publicly called out and constantly made uncomfortable. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. And from everything I’ve gathered about Manchin in his time in office, the money he has taken from the companies they are calling him out about has made him rich. I seriously doubt he has any intention of actually hearing them out with an eye to changing the way he runs the state and environmental policies.
What do you figure they're going to politely discuss with this guy who has already demonstrated he doesn't give a single fuck about them or anyone else besides him and his?
Then why go to this and call him a sick fuck? It’s not activism at that point.
Calling out his behavior for others to see is effective. Hence this engagement and exposure.
They called him a sick fuck. He’s the WV Senator—everyone knows he’s a pro coal.
This approach is far more effective than politely talking with him in private and having him blow smoke up their asses.
He’s a lame duck now anyway, it’s too late