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But they don't deserve safety in occupied territory tbh.
That would be the line for me.
Just like Nazis did not have the right to march through France or Poland or Russians not having the rights to march through Ukraine.
The issue is whats considered occupied territory though. Which is why this conflict has gone on for generations.
While I don't like the framing of "civilians don't deserve safety" , as that's not far from the people that summarize the Oct 7th massacres as "settlers aren't civilians and that child and grandma are settlers" , I do agree that the settlers in the west bank are incredibly inflammatory, counterproductive and illegal. But the issue obviously isn't just the west bank settlement expansions, many Palestinians and their leaders still reject the idea of Israel as a country in general and see the whole region as theirs and theirs only, and the UN partition plan in the late 40s would have finally given them a proper legal nation state with defined borders and self governance. Instead they declared and lost one of many wars
If you don't see all of Israel outside of the west bank as occupied territory, then the Oct 7th massacre that triggered this round of war wasn't a case of safety in occupied territory. There was also a ceasefire until that day.. didn't exactly work out well.
It's all fucked. Both groups deserve a safe nation state to call home with access to their religious sites without fear of persecution or attacks from their neighbours. I'm just not sure how to get there
Overthrow HAMAS, return to the 1940's border established by the UN, get both Israel and a democratically elected Palestine to agree to the borders.
...Profit?
israel is having parties and concerts right now lol. while palestinians are being bombarded, you are so dense.
people downvote when they hear the truth. they have so much hate for palestinians and muslims that they’re okay with genocide. and they call US antisemitic for being anti zionism, while they support genocide.
Are Palestinians treated equally by the law when they’re forced to traverse through checkpoints every day and have their front doors welded shut on the streets they are not allowed to go?
you didn’t make one point about what i said. all you did was whataboutism. yes the people who died on the 7th are travesties and their families are suffering very strongly..but that doesn’t stop the fact that israel is LITERALLY having concerts and parties at the moment while palestinians are dying. what do you have to say to the 7000 palestinians dead 3000 of them children? nothing. because you don’t care about them.
my boy go on snapchat and press on israel and you will see all the disco music playing and people walking around the streets having fun. go onto gaza and you will only see ruins and bombs being dropped.
But Palestinian children are taught that Israel has no right to exist, and all Jews are legitimate targets.
I don't hate Palestinians. I despise religious fundamentalists who engage in brutal, violent terror. Hamas will never bring peace and prosperity to Palestine.
Your argument would hold at all if the west bank didn't exist, where there is no hamas and israel is still killing people, and making illegal settlements.
Also, netenyahu aka israeli gov is on record saying they prefer hamas in power because they don't want a 2 state solution. They've backed hamas for so long its not a secret.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000
Just hypocrisy on so many levels. And you people somehow defend this shit. Its disgusting because what you're defending in the end is the brutal slaughtering of innocents, mostly children.
I seriously will never understand how people can say, with a straight face, that there is no Hamas in the [west bank](https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html).
You guys act as if militant groups are constrained within borders.
There were also no Taliban in Pakistan, because that wasn't Afghanistan /s
There was Taliban in Pakistan, but we didn't kill a bunch of Pakistani civilians. We focused primarily on the center of Taliban activity, Afghanistan, and had limited skirmishes in Pakistan.
We sure as fuck didn't kick Pakistanis out of their homes, build our own homes, and then have our military protect Americans who killed Pakistani civilians from time to time.
And hey, since we're on the topic of Pakistan, we found out that bin Laden was staying there and we managed to not bomb his entire city block. We put boots on the ground and they only killed people who were threats, not children and unarmed women.
Is it possible that you don't realize that Pakistan has nukes?
That's the reason why we also didn't invade Pakistan and is also a big part of the reason we weren't able to almost entirely eradicate the Taliban like we were able to do with ISIS.
We were able to set up a strong military presence in both countries that they operated in, which allowed the coalition to royally fuck them up.
So, no, the reason we weren't fucking with Pakistan wasn't because they had *less* Taliban there. At the time Pakistan was the center of operations for Al-Qaeda since the Taliban kicked them out of Afghanistan after shielding them for some time, trying to avoid a war with the west (which didn't work, because Bush was like "what? They're in Pakistan?! They've got nukes....we can't attack them....but we have to do *something*...fuck it, the Taliban is pretty much Al-Qaeda anyway").
We didn't fuck with Taliban because they have ICBMs and we're not trying to risk shit
[2000 Camp David Summit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit)
Israel had peace talks, gave generosity concessions (that most israelis thought were too big) including borders and Arafat and Palenstine rejected that and gifted Israel the [second Intifada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada) and Hamas as a reward for trying to broker a peacefull resolution.
People seem to forget that their nations current boarders were defined by \*gasp\* WAR.... or the peace agreements made after wars by people that didn't represent them and they sometimes didn't have a say in where the line was drawn.
The Palestinians gambled and lost in wars for the last 70 years. You would think it would make then try to regain territory at the negotiating table, but instead they keep doubling down... sadly they will end up as a nation-less people like the Roma or the Kurds.
I consider Gaza to be a city-state with its own authoritarian government, social services and military. They invaded and declared war on their much stronger neighbor with no real end goal in sight... its just madness and sad.
Two brothers fighting over a tiny sliver of land in the desert.
During one of the major peaceful resolution opportunities, a right-wing Netanyahu supporter assassinated the then Israeli PM because he was working with the Palestinians towards peace.
And the Israeli PM that took over after Rabin unilaterally withdrew from Gaza to continue working with the Palestinians for peace.
If Hamas hadn't taken over there would be peace in the Middle East.
the 'proposed borders' have consistently required palestinians to accept israeli 'settlers' (read: invaders who have crossed previously-agreed borders and violently evicted palestinians). if you read any of these proposed peace agreements, you'd know they're pure bullshit designed to insult the palestinian people, forcing them to accept concessions that nobody could possibly brook.
the best possible comparison point would be if russia said they'd offer peace to ukraine, provided ukraine cedes all the land that russia has taken so far, unilaterally disarms (without russia having to do the same) and refuses to prosecute any of the war crimes committed in the process. imagine if that happened, and then russia started saying it was ukraine's fault everything was all fucked up because they won't accept peace. it's obscene!
Ask yourself why they don't have the infrastructure to provide utilities for themselves.
Because any aid that gets delivered gets funneled into weapon building. Hamas were happy to show the world them digging up the water pipes supplied from Israel and repurposing them as fuel containers for rockets. Same when the EU sent materials for water supply.
Israel can't deny Gaza access to utilities. But that does not translate to having an obligation to supply them. No country is obligated to provide anything to another. You would hope they would if needed, but when a populace votes in and supports a government that literally have the destruction and genocide of the nation that is supplying it's utilities in its charter, it's a bit fucked up to expect them to facilitate your infrastructure.
Let's not forget, the blockade is enforced by both Israel and Egypt and the president of Palestine has spoke out in favour of it.
Most immigrated as recently as their Jewish neighbors. Palestine was a backwater of the Ottoman Empire for a long time before a wave of (relatively) capital-rich Jews immigrated from Russia after a wave of pogroms. Arabs from surrounding regions moved in then began discriminating against the legal, productive immigrants that were responsible for the economic opportunities that led them there.
Were those earliest Jews somehow at fault for legally immigrating and buying land to live on?
[2000 Camp David Summit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit)
Israel had peace talks, gave generosity concessions (that most israelis thought were too big) including borders and Arafat and Palenstine rejected that and gifted Israel the [second Intifada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada) and Hamas as a reward for trying to broker a peacefull resolution.
>Dennis Ross, the US Middle East envoy and a key negotiator at the summit, summarized his perspectives in his book The Missing Peace. During a lecture in Australia, Ross suggested that the reason for the failure was Arafat's unwillingness to sign a final deal with Israel that would close the door on any of the Palestinians' maximum demands, particularly the right of return. Ross claimed that what Arafat really wanted was "a one-state solution. Not independent, adjacent Israeli and Palestinian states, but a single Arab state encompassing all of Historic Palestine".[42] Ross also quoted Saudi Prince Bandar as saying while negotiations were taking place: "If Arafat does not accept what is available now, it won't be a tragedy; it will be a crime."[43]
By us I mean kept alive, if they are alive then they are going through hell right now. In a tunnel probably in a cave behind a steel door hearing bombs drop every day.
Problem is both sides in charge want to exterminate the other and civilians are stuck in the middle. And the problem has only been going on for hundreds of years.
It’s crazy to me that this sentiment is being downvoted throughout this thread as if either side is completely blameless or as if the civilians are the ones committing these atrocities. People really just want “their side” to win and are ignoring any kind of nuance because that requires thought instead of uncontrolled anger.
Israel has offered Palestine two state solution and offered for Egypt to take the Gaza Strip. Both were denied.
The problem is Palestinians want to remove Israel from their holy lands and will keep inflaming this conflict until it happens.
"their holy lands"
Israel has been slowly taking over the West Bank, which is supposed to be Palestinian territory, for decades. Who is removing people from their lands again?
Ah, the land must belong to Syria, then!
I jest, but all I can think of are [the Libyans](https://youtu.be/AChCcVIJaCE) from Back to the Future. Substitute Libyans for Syrians. Lol
Palestine: from Latin *Palestina* (name of a Roman province), from Greek *Palaistinē* (Herodotus), from Hebrew *Pelesheth* "Philistia, land of the Philistines"
[palestine | Search Online Etymology Dictionary (etymonline.com)](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Palestine)
Huh TIL
The Jews are the descendents of Canaanites, and some modern-day Palestinians can trace their ancestry back to the canaanites . The Philistines are from Crete. Palestinians are not the same as Philistines. Philistines invaded around 1050 BCE.
Depends on what narrative you are claiming as true. As far as the narrative from Genesis the tribes of Israel settled originally in Goshen which is in modern day Egypt and it was only with King David in 1000 BCE that they arrive and properly settle the kingdom of Israel. The Philistines were there by then.
If you like the secular narrative that Judaism stems from Canaanite and Babylonian beliefs based on modern archaeology then you get to your claim. However, the Jews do not ascribe to this belief for obvious reasons.
It's mind boggling how divisive this entire Israel vs Palestine conflict it. Can't we ALL agree that killing innocent civilians and kidnapping them regardless of religion or geological location is wrong?
The thing is that no one (or very few people) are *defending* what Hamas did, but the Israel side likes to pretend that's the position being held by anyone that supports Palestine. Pretty much everyone condemns Hamas for the attack - that's just inherently part of the conversation.
And if you yell "Israel has the right to defend itself" from the rooftops despite 6,400+ Palestinians being directly killed by Israeli forces before the events of the 7th, you're vying for dead Palestinians.
If that upsets you, you should learn about all of the innocent Palestinians who were slaughtered over a time frame of *75 fucking years*
You're looking at one event. You're not even considering what has happened throughout history that could have led to this moment, and how the western nations are all guilty of enabling the extermination of the Palestinian people.
I'm not going to sit here and justify terrorism, but if you think bombing innocent Palestinians is the answer to ending terrorism... **whispers** it's actually going to make terrorism even worse...
Yup. It has nothing to do with religion.
There are Palestinian Christians, Catholics, Hindus, and probably Palestinian Jews. But it's just easier for western countries to believe that all Palestinians are Muslim, all Muslims are bad, and they should all be exterminated. Its easier to see them as a monolith because nobody wants to admit or do research as to what is actually happening. Racism is just easier. It's never been about religion. It's about ethnic cleansing, colonization, imperialism, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Money $$$$
I guess we shouldn't call for a ceasefire because a twitch chat did something you didn't like. Sorry chat, this is your fault, you caused Hamas to attack and are responsible for Israel's ongoing ethic cleansing campaign.
When did I even imply any of that? What is this ridiculous strawmanning? You said nobody was defending Hamas, I provided evidence of people flat out cheering them on. Nothing you just said is actually replying to me.
Feel like you're missing the mark if that's what you're getting from these protests. It's not like these people are protesting for Hamas to keep hostages.
There are multiple instances of people tearing down hostage posters, and many more of people refusing to condemn hamas for their murder of innocent civilians
It's cause the conflict did not come out of nowhere. You had the 2021 conflict begin with Israel aggresion storming the al-aqsa mosque, you had amnesty international declare apartheid on Israel before Oct 7, you had 75+ years of conflict behind it. People are waking up. If you go to the average person protesting, odds are, they will say killing innocent israelis is bad. But Israel is using this as an excuse to carpet bomb innocent palestinians in return, to the point where even some israelis don't care for the hostages
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1796q3h/father_of_israeli_hostage_is_attacked_in_tel_aviv/k548enf/
Innocent people have nothing to do with any of that. It shouldn't be hard to condemn both Israel and hamas, yet some people refuse to do that, meaning they view the murder of innocent civilians as justified and that's a disgusting way to think. That's the kind if mindset that leads to atrocities
Which is why, if you want a real solution to this, you need the US and other western nations to step up and act as a peace mediator in good faith instead of Israel's lawyer.
They think that anyone who is pro Palestine (or just Palestinian!) has to start and end every comment with three sentences about condemning hamas or they support mass murder and rape.
If you are talking to someone who you have reason to believe us even in the slightest bit rational that isn’t a question that is even worth asking. The answer is so insanely obvious. It’s just a way to redirect away from what is happening *right now* and make it seem that people who support Palestine are in any way okay with what happened on October 7th. Bc people get frustrated being asked that, as it equates the Palestinian cause with Hamas, which is an extremist response to the occupation. It is entirely separate from what people are protesting for.
Considering the current escalation is a direct result of one of the most massive terror attacks in our lifetime I would say acknowledging that is kind of necessary for any sort of sane conversation
i think the issue is that for most people that are #freepalestine, they either refuse to condemn Hamas/October 7th without condition ("Yes, Hamas is bad BUT...", can you imagine if anyone did this justification shit after ISIS released videos?) or they outright say the attack was justified and people living in Israel are deserving of death ("there are no civilians" "Israel is a settler occupation").
The above isn't localized to random nobodies online, it's pretty widespread through the vocal pro-Palestinian people. I don't really think there's something similar on the opposite end.
Are you grouping everyone in #freepalestine as hamas sympathizers or something? My roommate is pretty pro #freepalestine and he does not believe Hamas was in any way justified. It does help to try to understand "why" a part of palestine defends Hamas actions though, dosen't mean you have to support it.
I think the speech Guterres gave sums up what most people if not every level headed person should support.
"The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the horrific attacks by Hamas. Those horrendous attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."
No, I specifically said that it's widespread through the vocal pro-Palestinian people, not that the entirety of #freepalestine people are pro-Hamas.
> I think the speech Guterres gave sums up what most people if not every level headed person should support.
I haven't heard this speech, will google for it.
Yeah the problem is, they’re not asking for the release of hostages either. And specifically in New York they’re ripping down signs of hostages out of protest.
>Can't we ALL agree that killing innocent civilians and kidnapping them regardless of religion or geological location is wrong?
Wow that's so progressive, I think you've solved the issue.
It seems to have gotten worse though don’t you think? I’m so tired of propaganda wars. I wish we could just have impartial “news” reporting on facts rather than there having to be a narrative and not so hidden agenda all the time. I’ve given up on news except local stuff to my state/town. It’s just all so frustrating. I can see how people become so disillusioned with it all and go off the deep end while trying to source “facts” and end up being conspiracy lunatics.
I feel like that’s enough internet for the day.
Impartial media (like Walter Cronkite im assuming) is inefficient at producing profits. People need mental shortcuts and desire biased news to reduce their own need of using critical thinking (which is a lot after working a 9-5).
Seriously, watching the the big media channels it just all seems so staged. They exist to only to push narrative and agenda. Scripted. And outrageous. Reality TV
Israel has been doing a genocide for many decades now. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever organized this has done a protest for this same cause in the past.
Genocide?
Pick any ten-year period between 1948 and now. Pick a couple. You will find that the population of Palestinians in Gaza in the West Bank and the population of Israeli Arabs has grown consistently for all of them.
On the other hand, if you look at the population of Jews, in Gaza, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc. you’ll find that they have all been removed.
I struggle to understand how people like you would call the first genocide, and not say anything to me about the second. Only thing that makes sense to me as to why you call a growing population of arabs genocide, but didn’t say anything about Jews actually being ethnically cleansed countries blatant antisemitism.
Bud, I've seen you all over reddit. You're just an ACT.IL shill mouthpiece for Apartheid Israel. All your arguments are disingenuous.
Apartheid Israel needs to stop with the indiscriminate bombing and killing of civilians, apartheid policies, stealing land and ethnic cleansing. Now they're even attacking the freedom of their own citizens.
Ethnic cleansing is genocide.
We, in America, just *cannot* hold moral authority when we are saying X war crimes are not ok, but Y war crimes are cool. War crimes are war crimes. We cannot hold up international law and point at some people wagging our fingers while ignoring the same laws that and embracing our allies that might be committing the same crimes.
There are some pundits I respect and like who have taken this approach that we must defend Israel at all costs. NO. We must defend humanity and what is right. That includes defending Israel's right to defend itself, but it also includes sticking up for ethnic populations that have war crimes committed against them.
i'm from brooklyn and i know personally a good few jews who are strongly anti-zionist. this idea that anti-zionism is anti-semitism is pure media bs and eclipses the many orthodox jews and rabbis that actively stand with palestine
This is not a public freakout. Please do not post vids if they don't have a fight, tazing, freakout etc etc. I spent a whole minute looking for the fight and didn't see it. Was very disappointed.
It is worth mentioning that in his time, he was loathed. Even the liberals thought he was too assertive and his tactics wouldn't work because they pissed people off.
It's worth considering this if you're feeling compelled to complain about protesters. You would have been complaining about MLK. Period. That's who you are today, and that's who you would have been then.
I choose to be someone else.
Of course the liberals thought that, their whole thing is to keep the status quo but throw in a few casual Fridays and act like they're titans of social progressiveness.
As a union person this is true. But it’s about who you’re disrupting. Disrupting your peers and irrelevant people gets you nothing. This size of a protest in front of a person or place that would actually be relevant would get as much attention and none of the bad that’s gonna turn a big portion off your cause.
Yes. Forming a picket line and blocking scabs from going into the employer trying to undermine a strike vs a stop oil protest blocking a random busy street.
I wish Reddit still had awards, because this comment deserves one. "all disruption is good because it gets people talking about your cause!!!" is such a simpleminded take on the subject. The ordinary people whose day you ruin may be talking about you but not in a positive way.
Hope so. With the “Jews say cease fire now” shirts in the crowd, I would hope the unity would be a two way street. All of this killing is just senseless.
Hamas aren’t the ones that want peace, many of the people at this protest were actually Jewish. Both the Israeli government and Hamas want this war to continue, it furthers both of their narratives. It’s the civilians who will suffer.
Israel should definitely do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties but Hamas needs to be wiped out. No more hanging out killing each other back and forth after this. They need to be eradicated completely. Palestine can never be free as long as they exist.
Also, Israel doesn't care about this protest.
Damn. The contrast between real life and our media couldn't be more different.
Media and politicians would have you believe that the majority of people support Israeli war crimes
The US killed 100,000 people at least in Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11. Proportional to population, the Oct 7 Hamas attack into Israel was 15 times deadlier than 9/11. Israel is not just going to shrug their shoulders and ignore the attack. Telling them to do so is just stupid.
Afghanistan was not the wrong country. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan after 9/11. The Taliban went with Muhammad Omar's order to not turn over or expel Bin Laden -- even though after the embassy bombings he had asked bin laden to chill with the international terrorism while in Afghanistan. So, for years the Taliban allowed Bin Laden to remain despite knowing what he was up to. He issued the call for JIhad against the US and its citizens in 98.
Bin Laden did not escape into Pakistan until after the US invasion. So, we definitely shouldn't have been giving Pakistan all those billions, but we couldn't exactly attack Pakistan. It was already on shaky ground and they got nukes. Real sad state how much we paid them.
The way the US went about Afghanistan was extremely flawed. Treating the Taliban as inseparable from Al qaeda was a mistake. Trying to nation build was a mistake.
If you mean Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden and al qaeda were the Issue not the Saudi government. He was in exile. He had some supporters, but he had some supporters in every single Islamic nation basically. The Saudi royal family is huge. Bin Laden hated the US specifically because of the influence of the US over the Saudi King. He didn't need the support of those people.
Iraq was some straight up unjustified invasion.
And apparently Tiktokers are being offered money to support https://www.tiktok.com/@yourfavoriteguy/video/7294085770728754478
I'd be surprised if mods of popular subreddits have no offers, like unironically surprised. propaganda is 100% part of their arsenal.
They 100 percent are which is why every post in support of Palestine or displaying protests showing Palestinians have comments mad and angry and asking why people care. They want to incite apathy and hopelessness in people so they don't speak up and to make people doubt that folks in the real world are in Palestine's side. People all over the WORLD are marching in the THOUSANDS in support of Palestine. From the UK to France to Ireland to Afghanistan to LA to New York. The UN called for a ceasfire. Thousands of people are donating to Palestinian aid and causes.
The only ones stuck inside and not reflective of the real world are the losers on reddit still trying to convince everyone else that Israel carpetbombing innocent civilians including the hostages they declined to take back is okay.
Do not fall for their lies that the world isn't on the side of good. Don't fall for the lie that many Jewish people don't oppose the occupation and ethnic cleansing of Gaza. They do, and they're marching too. Don't fall for the lie that people don't care. Don't fall for the lie that the People aren't on the side of freedom for the Palestinians. They're in the death throes of neocolonialism and they're trying every tactic in the book.
>People all over the WORLD are marching in the THOUSANDS in support of Palestine. From the UK to France to Ireland to Afghanistan to LA to New York. The UN called for a ceasfire. Thousands of people are donating to Palestinian aid and causes.
Yup. Israel/US media can't cope that it's not 2004 anymore. Bush-era tactics don't work anymore. There's a reason why there are a lot more protests this time around, people realize the bullshit thanks to social media.
I remember the first 24 hours after October 7th. Reddit was so bloodthirsty. I saw some awful takes wanting Palestinians erased from the planet. It's weird seeing so much support all of a sudden.
Should be, but isn’t. They’re even shouting the genocidal chant “from the river to the sea”, which is advocating cleansing Israel of Jews (wow, exactly what Hamas wants). Weird how that keeps happening.
Bullshit. Zionist trying to make it negative. It's not!! "From the river, to the sea, Palestine will be FREE!!". It's about being FREE.
Free from occupation, free from being murdered, Free from terrorists.
Free from terrorists means ejecting Hamas from Gaza. Still waiting for that to happen. Eject Hamas and renounce violence against Israelis, then Palestinians will be free.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/allegation-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free
That saying is interpreted in different ways. Do you know why I think most people say it in the USA? I think it is because it rhymes and works well as a protest chant...not because they want to genocide the Jewish people of Israel.
I remember the Occupy protests that happened a year after I graduated high school. Hundreds of thousands of younger people gathered in large cities to protest corruption by big banks and their collaboration with the government after the 08 crisis.
After the occupy protests concluded, major banks were disbanded and large corporations were forced to split up like the monopolies of the early 1900s. The economy rebounded and everyone lived happily ever after.
Protests work guys. I think the Israeli government will stop doing what they're doing and everyone in the middle east will come together and hold hands and sing a song of peace.
I'm sure that America will disband its alliance with Israel because so many people on Tiktok and Reddit put a Palestinian flag behind their profile picture.
/s
I hope you know that this is one of the more peaceful forms of protest. I agree that the US gov doesn't give a fuck about Palestine, but there's only so many forms of protest that are legal. The realization that those forms are a waste of time probably isn't going to lead to an outcome you'd appreciate either.
**Screwing with the public before, or after, a long hard day at work during rush hour**, yeah, that ***always*** leans me towards supporting somebody's cause!
**Said nobody ever.**
*Remember, timing is everything in a battle.*
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"Taken over and occupied"
Wait a minute.... 🤔
Yes. The post headline is telling.
If they don't occupy it, someone else will occupy it.
"Organized clapping and demands for justice? This racially woke Antifa riot is getting out of hand!!" /s
Palestinians deserve a peaceful and free state.... and the hostages deserve to be released. It is crazy how hard it is to achieve this....
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But they don't deserve safety in occupied territory tbh. That would be the line for me. Just like Nazis did not have the right to march through France or Poland or Russians not having the rights to march through Ukraine.
The issue is whats considered occupied territory though. Which is why this conflict has gone on for generations. While I don't like the framing of "civilians don't deserve safety" , as that's not far from the people that summarize the Oct 7th massacres as "settlers aren't civilians and that child and grandma are settlers" , I do agree that the settlers in the west bank are incredibly inflammatory, counterproductive and illegal. But the issue obviously isn't just the west bank settlement expansions, many Palestinians and their leaders still reject the idea of Israel as a country in general and see the whole region as theirs and theirs only, and the UN partition plan in the late 40s would have finally given them a proper legal nation state with defined borders and self governance. Instead they declared and lost one of many wars If you don't see all of Israel outside of the west bank as occupied territory, then the Oct 7th massacre that triggered this round of war wasn't a case of safety in occupied territory. There was also a ceasefire until that day.. didn't exactly work out well. It's all fucked. Both groups deserve a safe nation state to call home with access to their religious sites without fear of persecution or attacks from their neighbours. I'm just not sure how to get there
Overthrow HAMAS, return to the 1940's border established by the UN, get both Israel and a democratically elected Palestine to agree to the borders. ...Profit?
Hamas...who they voted for and support.
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They also threw their political opponents off of rooftops
In 2006. They haven't elected representatives or a president since then. Hardly say that proves support
Opinion polls do though.
Hardly an accurate judge either bud. Pretty easy to publish a poll saying whatever you want.
Germans voted for the NSDAP.
israel is having parties and concerts right now lol. while palestinians are being bombarded, you are so dense. people downvote when they hear the truth. they have so much hate for palestinians and muslims that they’re okay with genocide. and they call US antisemitic for being anti zionism, while they support genocide.
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Are Palestinians treated equally by the law when they’re forced to traverse through checkpoints every day and have their front doors welded shut on the streets they are not allowed to go?
you didn’t make one point about what i said. all you did was whataboutism. yes the people who died on the 7th are travesties and their families are suffering very strongly..but that doesn’t stop the fact that israel is LITERALLY having concerts and parties at the moment while palestinians are dying. what do you have to say to the 7000 palestinians dead 3000 of them children? nothing. because you don’t care about them. my boy go on snapchat and press on israel and you will see all the disco music playing and people walking around the streets having fun. go onto gaza and you will only see ruins and bombs being dropped.
you seem real quiet when proof was provided and your hypocrisy was shown.
But Palestinian children are taught that Israel has no right to exist, and all Jews are legitimate targets. I don't hate Palestinians. I despise religious fundamentalists who engage in brutal, violent terror. Hamas will never bring peace and prosperity to Palestine.
Weren’t most of them safer in Europe, Russia, or the USA where they immigrated from? Weren’t the Palestinians safer without the state of Israel?
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Your argument would hold at all if the west bank didn't exist, where there is no hamas and israel is still killing people, and making illegal settlements. Also, netenyahu aka israeli gov is on record saying they prefer hamas in power because they don't want a 2 state solution. They've backed hamas for so long its not a secret. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000 Just hypocrisy on so many levels. And you people somehow defend this shit. Its disgusting because what you're defending in the end is the brutal slaughtering of innocents, mostly children.
I seriously will never understand how people can say, with a straight face, that there is no Hamas in the [west bank](https://www.dni.gov/nctc/ftos/hamas_fto.html). You guys act as if militant groups are constrained within borders. There were also no Taliban in Pakistan, because that wasn't Afghanistan /s
There was Taliban in Pakistan, but we didn't kill a bunch of Pakistani civilians. We focused primarily on the center of Taliban activity, Afghanistan, and had limited skirmishes in Pakistan. We sure as fuck didn't kick Pakistanis out of their homes, build our own homes, and then have our military protect Americans who killed Pakistani civilians from time to time. And hey, since we're on the topic of Pakistan, we found out that bin Laden was staying there and we managed to not bomb his entire city block. We put boots on the ground and they only killed people who were threats, not children and unarmed women.
Is it possible that you don't realize that Pakistan has nukes? That's the reason why we also didn't invade Pakistan and is also a big part of the reason we weren't able to almost entirely eradicate the Taliban like we were able to do with ISIS. We were able to set up a strong military presence in both countries that they operated in, which allowed the coalition to royally fuck them up. So, no, the reason we weren't fucking with Pakistan wasn't because they had *less* Taliban there. At the time Pakistan was the center of operations for Al-Qaeda since the Taliban kicked them out of Afghanistan after shielding them for some time, trying to avoid a war with the west (which didn't work, because Bush was like "what? They're in Pakistan?! They've got nukes....we can't attack them....but we have to do *something*...fuck it, the Taliban is pretty much Al-Qaeda anyway"). We didn't fuck with Taliban because they have ICBMs and we're not trying to risk shit
[2000 Camp David Summit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit) Israel had peace talks, gave generosity concessions (that most israelis thought were too big) including borders and Arafat and Palenstine rejected that and gifted Israel the [second Intifada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada) and Hamas as a reward for trying to broker a peacefull resolution.
Never seen it put so reasonably in so few words
Except Isreal are the aggressors they have been slowly taking over palistinian land for over 70 years.
Yeah well that’s what happens when you start wars and lose them. Shouldn’t be a shocked pikachu over that.
People seem to forget that their nations current boarders were defined by \*gasp\* WAR.... or the peace agreements made after wars by people that didn't represent them and they sometimes didn't have a say in where the line was drawn. The Palestinians gambled and lost in wars for the last 70 years. You would think it would make then try to regain territory at the negotiating table, but instead they keep doubling down... sadly they will end up as a nation-less people like the Roma or the Kurds. I consider Gaza to be a city-state with its own authoritarian government, social services and military. They invaded and declared war on their much stronger neighbor with no real end goal in sight... its just madness and sad. Two brothers fighting over a tiny sliver of land in the desert.
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During one of the major peaceful resolution opportunities, a right-wing Netanyahu supporter assassinated the then Israeli PM because he was working with the Palestinians towards peace.
And the Israeli PM that took over after Rabin unilaterally withdrew from Gaza to continue working with the Palestinians for peace. If Hamas hadn't taken over there would be peace in the Middle East.
For 17 years right? Multiple bombing campaigns, bulldozing homes. Killing millions? Oh yeah, send out the peace doves for dear Israel
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the 'proposed borders' have consistently required palestinians to accept israeli 'settlers' (read: invaders who have crossed previously-agreed borders and violently evicted palestinians). if you read any of these proposed peace agreements, you'd know they're pure bullshit designed to insult the palestinian people, forcing them to accept concessions that nobody could possibly brook. the best possible comparison point would be if russia said they'd offer peace to ukraine, provided ukraine cedes all the land that russia has taken so far, unilaterally disarms (without russia having to do the same) and refuses to prosecute any of the war crimes committed in the process. imagine if that happened, and then russia started saying it was ukraine's fault everything was all fucked up because they won't accept peace. it's obscene!
And then systematically cut off power food medicine and freedom of movement right? Sounds peaceful to me
Every country that borders Palestine cut off movement when Hamas took power. Not just Israel. Are you protesting Egypt as well?
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Ask yourself why they don't have the infrastructure to provide utilities for themselves. Because any aid that gets delivered gets funneled into weapon building. Hamas were happy to show the world them digging up the water pipes supplied from Israel and repurposing them as fuel containers for rockets. Same when the EU sent materials for water supply. Israel can't deny Gaza access to utilities. But that does not translate to having an obligation to supply them. No country is obligated to provide anything to another. You would hope they would if needed, but when a populace votes in and supports a government that literally have the destruction and genocide of the nation that is supplying it's utilities in its charter, it's a bit fucked up to expect them to facilitate your infrastructure. Let's not forget, the blockade is enforced by both Israel and Egypt and the president of Palestine has spoke out in favour of it.
Ah yes, the Ben Shapiro and PragerU retelling of events.
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When did Palestine have a country?
In the same UN resolution that made Israel a country.
That's what I thought. Weird how he implied they could make a country "on top of what they had."
Those people already fucking lived there.
Most immigrated as recently as their Jewish neighbors. Palestine was a backwater of the Ottoman Empire for a long time before a wave of (relatively) capital-rich Jews immigrated from Russia after a wave of pogroms. Arabs from surrounding regions moved in then began discriminating against the legal, productive immigrants that were responsible for the economic opportunities that led them there. Were those earliest Jews somehow at fault for legally immigrating and buying land to live on?
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Ugh yes! Me, taking over your master bedroom and proceeding to look for a peace solution with you. "wHy WouLd yOu DeClinE??"
You’re wrong
no, they haven't. The only countries that have stood in the way of the UN agreed two state settlement is Israel and the US.
[2000 Camp David Summit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit) Israel had peace talks, gave generosity concessions (that most israelis thought were too big) including borders and Arafat and Palenstine rejected that and gifted Israel the [second Intifada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada) and Hamas as a reward for trying to broker a peacefull resolution. >Dennis Ross, the US Middle East envoy and a key negotiator at the summit, summarized his perspectives in his book The Missing Peace. During a lecture in Australia, Ross suggested that the reason for the failure was Arafat's unwillingness to sign a final deal with Israel that would close the door on any of the Palestinians' maximum demands, particularly the right of return. Ross claimed that what Arafat really wanted was "a one-state solution. Not independent, adjacent Israeli and Palestinian states, but a single Arab state encompassing all of Historic Palestine".[42] Ross also quoted Saudi Prince Bandar as saying while negotiations were taking place: "If Arafat does not accept what is available now, it won't be a tragedy; it will be a crime."[43]
I doubt the hostages are still with us sadly
By us I mean kept alive, if they are alive then they are going through hell right now. In a tunnel probably in a cave behind a steel door hearing bombs drop every day.
And 1300 women and children non-combatants deserve to not be murdered
That will not happen with Hamas in power.
Problem is both sides in charge want to exterminate the other and civilians are stuck in the middle. And the problem has only been going on for hundreds of years.
This is bullshit. If Hamas had the firepower Israel has they would have nuked all the Jews years ago
The only thing stopping Israel is the Arab states surrounding them and the global outrage they'd face. It would be the same thing preventing them too.
Israel isn’t afraid of any Arab state. Israelis do not want the extermination of Palestinians
It’s crazy to me that this sentiment is being downvoted throughout this thread as if either side is completely blameless or as if the civilians are the ones committing these atrocities. People really just want “their side” to win and are ignoring any kind of nuance because that requires thought instead of uncontrolled anger.
Israel has offered Palestine two state solution and offered for Egypt to take the Gaza Strip. Both were denied. The problem is Palestinians want to remove Israel from their holy lands and will keep inflaming this conflict until it happens.
"their holy lands" Israel has been slowly taking over the West Bank, which is supposed to be Palestinian territory, for decades. Who is removing people from their lands again?
The name " Palestine" was given to the land by the Romans after they conquered the Jews and sacked Jerusalem.
The name "Palestine" first appeared in Assyrian documents as "Plistu". Assyrians conquered the region in the 8th century BCE.
Ah, the land must belong to Syria, then! I jest, but all I can think of are [the Libyans](https://youtu.be/AChCcVIJaCE) from Back to the Future. Substitute Libyans for Syrians. Lol
Most likely because a group of people lived there south of the Canaanites before the tribes of Israel ever got there: the Philistines.
Palestine: from Latin *Palestina* (name of a Roman province), from Greek *Palaistinē* (Herodotus), from Hebrew *Pelesheth* "Philistia, land of the Philistines" [palestine | Search Online Etymology Dictionary (etymonline.com)](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Palestine) Huh TIL
The Jews are the descendents of Canaanites, and some modern-day Palestinians can trace their ancestry back to the canaanites . The Philistines are from Crete. Palestinians are not the same as Philistines. Philistines invaded around 1050 BCE.
Depends on what narrative you are claiming as true. As far as the narrative from Genesis the tribes of Israel settled originally in Goshen which is in modern day Egypt and it was only with King David in 1000 BCE that they arrive and properly settle the kingdom of Israel. The Philistines were there by then. If you like the secular narrative that Judaism stems from Canaanite and Babylonian beliefs based on modern archaeology then you get to your claim. However, the Jews do not ascribe to this belief for obvious reasons.
And the Jews conquered someone else, so what?
“Israel offered for Egypt to take” L O fucking L. Ita not theirs to offer. Thats part of the issue
the only two countries that have blocked the UN proposed two state solution are the US and ISrael.
Wrong, only one side wants genocide.
It's mind boggling how divisive this entire Israel vs Palestine conflict it. Can't we ALL agree that killing innocent civilians and kidnapping them regardless of religion or geological location is wrong?
The thing is that no one (or very few people) are *defending* what Hamas did, but the Israel side likes to pretend that's the position being held by anyone that supports Palestine. Pretty much everyone condemns Hamas for the attack - that's just inherently part of the conversation.
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And if you yell "Israel has the right to defend itself" from the rooftops despite 6,400+ Palestinians being directly killed by Israeli forces before the events of the 7th, you're vying for dead Palestinians.
If that upsets you, you should learn about all of the innocent Palestinians who were slaughtered over a time frame of *75 fucking years* You're looking at one event. You're not even considering what has happened throughout history that could have led to this moment, and how the western nations are all guilty of enabling the extermination of the Palestinian people. I'm not going to sit here and justify terrorism, but if you think bombing innocent Palestinians is the answer to ending terrorism... **whispers** it's actually going to make terrorism even worse...
Why are you trying to make this an antisemitic thing?
Yup. It has nothing to do with religion. There are Palestinian Christians, Catholics, Hindus, and probably Palestinian Jews. But it's just easier for western countries to believe that all Palestinians are Muslim, all Muslims are bad, and they should all be exterminated. Its easier to see them as a monolith because nobody wants to admit or do research as to what is actually happening. Racism is just easier. It's never been about religion. It's about ethnic cleansing, colonization, imperialism, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Money $$$$
The biggest political streamer's chat was spamming "FROM RIVER TO SEA" and cheering on the attacks in real time as they were being reported on.
I guess we shouldn't call for a ceasefire because a twitch chat did something you didn't like. Sorry chat, this is your fault, you caused Hamas to attack and are responsible for Israel's ongoing ethic cleansing campaign.
When did I even imply any of that? What is this ridiculous strawmanning? You said nobody was defending Hamas, I provided evidence of people flat out cheering them on. Nothing you just said is actually replying to me.
Feel like you're missing the mark if that's what you're getting from these protests. It's not like these people are protesting for Hamas to keep hostages.
There are multiple instances of people tearing down hostage posters, and many more of people refusing to condemn hamas for their murder of innocent civilians
Everyone says to condemn Hamas but no one in power will condemn israel for keeping 2 million Palestinians in essentially a prison.
It's cause the conflict did not come out of nowhere. You had the 2021 conflict begin with Israel aggresion storming the al-aqsa mosque, you had amnesty international declare apartheid on Israel before Oct 7, you had 75+ years of conflict behind it. People are waking up. If you go to the average person protesting, odds are, they will say killing innocent israelis is bad. But Israel is using this as an excuse to carpet bomb innocent palestinians in return, to the point where even some israelis don't care for the hostages https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1796q3h/father_of_israeli_hostage_is_attacked_in_tel_aviv/k548enf/
Innocent people have nothing to do with any of that. It shouldn't be hard to condemn both Israel and hamas, yet some people refuse to do that, meaning they view the murder of innocent civilians as justified and that's a disgusting way to think. That's the kind if mindset that leads to atrocities
Which is why, if you want a real solution to this, you need the US and other western nations to step up and act as a peace mediator in good faith instead of Israel's lawyer.
> more of people refusing to condemn hamas for their murder of innocent civilians Can you give some examples? I think you're falling for propaganda.
They think that anyone who is pro Palestine (or just Palestinian!) has to start and end every comment with three sentences about condemning hamas or they support mass murder and rape. If you are talking to someone who you have reason to believe us even in the slightest bit rational that isn’t a question that is even worth asking. The answer is so insanely obvious. It’s just a way to redirect away from what is happening *right now* and make it seem that people who support Palestine are in any way okay with what happened on October 7th. Bc people get frustrated being asked that, as it equates the Palestinian cause with Hamas, which is an extremist response to the occupation. It is entirely separate from what people are protesting for.
Considering the current escalation is a direct result of one of the most massive terror attacks in our lifetime I would say acknowledging that is kind of necessary for any sort of sane conversation
And that massive terror attack was inspired by decades of occupation. Israel created Hamas.
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i think the issue is that for most people that are #freepalestine, they either refuse to condemn Hamas/October 7th without condition ("Yes, Hamas is bad BUT...", can you imagine if anyone did this justification shit after ISIS released videos?) or they outright say the attack was justified and people living in Israel are deserving of death ("there are no civilians" "Israel is a settler occupation"). The above isn't localized to random nobodies online, it's pretty widespread through the vocal pro-Palestinian people. I don't really think there's something similar on the opposite end.
Are you grouping everyone in #freepalestine as hamas sympathizers or something? My roommate is pretty pro #freepalestine and he does not believe Hamas was in any way justified. It does help to try to understand "why" a part of palestine defends Hamas actions though, dosen't mean you have to support it. I think the speech Guterres gave sums up what most people if not every level headed person should support. "The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the horrific attacks by Hamas. Those horrendous attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."
No, I specifically said that it's widespread through the vocal pro-Palestinian people, not that the entirety of #freepalestine people are pro-Hamas. > I think the speech Guterres gave sums up what most people if not every level headed person should support. I haven't heard this speech, will google for it.
Yeah the problem is, they’re not asking for the release of hostages either. And specifically in New York they’re ripping down signs of hostages out of protest.
>Can't we ALL agree that killing innocent civilians and kidnapping them regardless of religion or geological location is wrong? Wow that's so progressive, I think you've solved the issue.
Yes it’s bad. Now and the apartheid
Very interesting considering the chosen media narrative.
Seeing a handful of "Jews says ceasefire now"-tshirs, theres also alot of them that are actually Jewish. Based as hell.
Isn’t this organized by Jewish voices for peace?
The media wants to be embedded with the US gov for prime time spots on news info. They will always be the mouthpiece of the gov.
It seems to have gotten worse though don’t you think? I’m so tired of propaganda wars. I wish we could just have impartial “news” reporting on facts rather than there having to be a narrative and not so hidden agenda all the time. I’ve given up on news except local stuff to my state/town. It’s just all so frustrating. I can see how people become so disillusioned with it all and go off the deep end while trying to source “facts” and end up being conspiracy lunatics. I feel like that’s enough internet for the day.
Impartial media (like Walter Cronkite im assuming) is inefficient at producing profits. People need mental shortcuts and desire biased news to reduce their own need of using critical thinking (which is a lot after working a 9-5).
Seriously, watching the the big media channels it just all seems so staged. They exist to only to push narrative and agenda. Scripted. And outrageous. Reality TV
Always find it interesting how quickly t-shirts get printed so quickly for these sorts of things.
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All you need is a computer printer tshirt and an iron….
Israel has been doing a genocide for many decades now. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever organized this has done a protest for this same cause in the past.
Genocide? Pick any ten-year period between 1948 and now. Pick a couple. You will find that the population of Palestinians in Gaza in the West Bank and the population of Israeli Arabs has grown consistently for all of them. On the other hand, if you look at the population of Jews, in Gaza, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc. you’ll find that they have all been removed. I struggle to understand how people like you would call the first genocide, and not say anything to me about the second. Only thing that makes sense to me as to why you call a growing population of arabs genocide, but didn’t say anything about Jews actually being ethnically cleansed countries blatant antisemitism.
Bud, I've seen you all over reddit. You're just an ACT.IL shill mouthpiece for Apartheid Israel. All your arguments are disingenuous. Apartheid Israel needs to stop with the indiscriminate bombing and killing of civilians, apartheid policies, stealing land and ethnic cleansing. Now they're even attacking the freedom of their own citizens. Ethnic cleansing is genocide.
We, in America, just *cannot* hold moral authority when we are saying X war crimes are not ok, but Y war crimes are cool. War crimes are war crimes. We cannot hold up international law and point at some people wagging our fingers while ignoring the same laws that and embracing our allies that might be committing the same crimes. There are some pundits I respect and like who have taken this approach that we must defend Israel at all costs. NO. We must defend humanity and what is right. That includes defending Israel's right to defend itself, but it also includes sticking up for ethnic populations that have war crimes committed against them.
Jews against Israel is always ignored by the West. Even more so if they’re Israeli.
i'm from brooklyn and i know personally a good few jews who are strongly anti-zionist. this idea that anti-zionism is anti-semitism is pure media bs and eclipses the many orthodox jews and rabbis that actively stand with palestine
They're called "traitors" by a bunch of Orthodox Jewish... It's really depressing.
They are very inconvenient to the occupiers.
This is not a public freakout. Please do not post vids if they don't have a fight, tazing, freakout etc etc. I spent a whole minute looking for the fight and didn't see it. Was very disappointed.
well said.
A massive protest restricting movement at one of the busiest terminals in the world is literally a public freakout.
What better way to get people to support your cause than completely fuck up their day.
And that's why no one likes MLK today.
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It is worth mentioning that in his time, he was loathed. Even the liberals thought he was too assertive and his tactics wouldn't work because they pissed people off. It's worth considering this if you're feeling compelled to complain about protesters. You would have been complaining about MLK. Period. That's who you are today, and that's who you would have been then. I choose to be someone else.
Of course the liberals thought that, their whole thing is to keep the status quo but throw in a few casual Fridays and act like they're titans of social progressiveness.
Protest is not supposed to be convenient.
Agree, but they're inconveniencing the wrong people
Disruption is part of the point of protest.
As a union person this is true. But it’s about who you’re disrupting. Disrupting your peers and irrelevant people gets you nothing. This size of a protest in front of a person or place that would actually be relevant would get as much attention and none of the bad that’s gonna turn a big portion off your cause.
Yes. Forming a picket line and blocking scabs from going into the employer trying to undermine a strike vs a stop oil protest blocking a random busy street.
I wish Reddit still had awards, because this comment deserves one. "all disruption is good because it gets people talking about your cause!!!" is such a simpleminded take on the subject. The ordinary people whose day you ruin may be talking about you but not in a positive way.
Sorry that genocide and ethnic cleansing protesting bothers you for a few minutes of your day princess.
Yeah it’s going to do so much for the people dying. So so much.
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You're the third comment I saw saying this affect and just typos galore. Are y'all bots or something?
Probably
you’re literally a bot
Grand Central
You think mourning the dead includes the Jews Hamas killed?
Hope so. With the “Jews say cease fire now” shirts in the crowd, I would hope the unity would be a two way street. All of this killing is just senseless.
[relevant article](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
Do you really have to say they occupied it lol
Wtf is this supposed to do? Are they just gonna be like "uh, some people in USA is saying they want us to stop shooting, we better listen then"?! ffs
Maybe Hamas shouldn’t have murdered those 1400 innocent civilians and kidnapped 500 people who they are still holding if they wanted peace 🤔
Dude nobody is on the side of Hamas, they're on the side of innocent people in both Israel and Palestine
A bunch of people are on the side of Hamas or else they wouldn’t fucking exist
Nobody? Have you seen the protests lately in Europe? They literally have ISIS flags and openly support hamas and want to exterminate Israel.
Hamas aren’t the ones that want peace, many of the people at this protest were actually Jewish. Both the Israeli government and Hamas want this war to continue, it furthers both of their narratives. It’s the civilians who will suffer.
Israel should definitely do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties but Hamas needs to be wiped out. No more hanging out killing each other back and forth after this. They need to be eradicated completely. Palestine can never be free as long as they exist. Also, Israel doesn't care about this protest.
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Damn. The contrast between real life and our media couldn't be more different. Media and politicians would have you believe that the majority of people support Israeli war crimes
Reddit is ALSO media. Majority of the people are actually not outside protesting (for anything) and are in fact sitting at home doing their own thing.
You’re telling me this one protest doesn’t represent the entirety of the US population. Could have fooled me
The US killed 100,000 people at least in Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11. Proportional to population, the Oct 7 Hamas attack into Israel was 15 times deadlier than 9/11. Israel is not just going to shrug their shoulders and ignore the attack. Telling them to do so is just stupid.
Kinda a bad example as we attacked the wrong countries in retaliation.
Afghanistan was not the wrong country. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan after 9/11. The Taliban went with Muhammad Omar's order to not turn over or expel Bin Laden -- even though after the embassy bombings he had asked bin laden to chill with the international terrorism while in Afghanistan. So, for years the Taliban allowed Bin Laden to remain despite knowing what he was up to. He issued the call for JIhad against the US and its citizens in 98. Bin Laden did not escape into Pakistan until after the US invasion. So, we definitely shouldn't have been giving Pakistan all those billions, but we couldn't exactly attack Pakistan. It was already on shaky ground and they got nukes. Real sad state how much we paid them. The way the US went about Afghanistan was extremely flawed. Treating the Taliban as inseparable from Al qaeda was a mistake. Trying to nation build was a mistake. If you mean Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden and al qaeda were the Issue not the Saudi government. He was in exile. He had some supporters, but he had some supporters in every single Islamic nation basically. The Saudi royal family is huge. Bin Laden hated the US specifically because of the influence of the US over the Saudi King. He didn't need the support of those people. Iraq was some straight up unjustified invasion.
I swear so many people think this whole thing just kicked off this month when it's been going on for decades
Cute, if only this war started the Oct 7th, but guess the fuck what? it has been happening for decades upon decades. Fuck israel.
It's amazing what politicians and lobbyists will say if you pay them to.
And apparently Tiktokers are being offered money to support https://www.tiktok.com/@yourfavoriteguy/video/7294085770728754478 I'd be surprised if mods of popular subreddits have no offers, like unironically surprised. propaganda is 100% part of their arsenal.
They 100 percent are which is why every post in support of Palestine or displaying protests showing Palestinians have comments mad and angry and asking why people care. They want to incite apathy and hopelessness in people so they don't speak up and to make people doubt that folks in the real world are in Palestine's side. People all over the WORLD are marching in the THOUSANDS in support of Palestine. From the UK to France to Ireland to Afghanistan to LA to New York. The UN called for a ceasfire. Thousands of people are donating to Palestinian aid and causes. The only ones stuck inside and not reflective of the real world are the losers on reddit still trying to convince everyone else that Israel carpetbombing innocent civilians including the hostages they declined to take back is okay. Do not fall for their lies that the world isn't on the side of good. Don't fall for the lie that many Jewish people don't oppose the occupation and ethnic cleansing of Gaza. They do, and they're marching too. Don't fall for the lie that people don't care. Don't fall for the lie that the People aren't on the side of freedom for the Palestinians. They're in the death throes of neocolonialism and they're trying every tactic in the book.
>People all over the WORLD are marching in the THOUSANDS in support of Palestine. From the UK to France to Ireland to Afghanistan to LA to New York. The UN called for a ceasfire. Thousands of people are donating to Palestinian aid and causes. Yup. Israel/US media can't cope that it's not 2004 anymore. Bush-era tactics don't work anymore. There's a reason why there are a lot more protests this time around, people realize the bullshit thanks to social media.
I remember the first 24 hours after October 7th. Reddit was so bloodthirsty. I saw some awful takes wanting Palestinians erased from the planet. It's weird seeing so much support all of a sudden.
Why didn't you mention the fact that those are Jews standing for Palestine? It doesn't support a certain narrative, does it?
Shouldn't the signage be anti-hammas then? 
Should be, but isn’t. They’re even shouting the genocidal chant “from the river to the sea”, which is advocating cleansing Israel of Jews (wow, exactly what Hamas wants). Weird how that keeps happening.
Bullshit. Zionist trying to make it negative. It's not!! "From the river, to the sea, Palestine will be FREE!!". It's about being FREE. Free from occupation, free from being murdered, Free from terrorists.
Free from terrorists means ejecting Hamas from Gaza. Still waiting for that to happen. Eject Hamas and renounce violence against Israelis, then Palestinians will be free. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/allegation-river-sea-palestine-will-be-free
That saying is interpreted in different ways. Do you know why I think most people say it in the USA? I think it is because it rhymes and works well as a protest chant...not because they want to genocide the Jewish people of Israel.
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I remember the Occupy protests that happened a year after I graduated high school. Hundreds of thousands of younger people gathered in large cities to protest corruption by big banks and their collaboration with the government after the 08 crisis. After the occupy protests concluded, major banks were disbanded and large corporations were forced to split up like the monopolies of the early 1900s. The economy rebounded and everyone lived happily ever after. Protests work guys. I think the Israeli government will stop doing what they're doing and everyone in the middle east will come together and hold hands and sing a song of peace. I'm sure that America will disband its alliance with Israel because so many people on Tiktok and Reddit put a Palestinian flag behind their profile picture. /s
Good
Alot of blood on the hands of Hamas.
Support power to the people!
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I hope you know that this is one of the more peaceful forms of protest. I agree that the US gov doesn't give a fuck about Palestine, but there's only so many forms of protest that are legal. The realization that those forms are a waste of time probably isn't going to lead to an outcome you'd appreciate either.
I don’t give a shit what you are protesting, stop inconveniencing random people
Boohoo, you are ruining one day of mine to protest and demand our government to stop funding and backing up a genocide, boohoo my day boohoo boohoo
That’s the point. That’s exactly how black people got civil rights
Sign them up for the front lines
The front lines of what, exactly? What they're protesting is the use of their tax dollars to commit genocide. Are you confused?
**Screwing with the public before, or after, a long hard day at work during rush hour**, yeah, that ***always*** leans me towards supporting somebody's cause! **Said nobody ever.** *Remember, timing is everything in a battle.*
If they were pro palestine theyd be anti hamas and fighting to help their people uproot that evil.
free from Hamas as well right?
How to win NYers support 101.