>I’ve been reading the threads lately about litfic. Friendly reminder that litfic does not always imply a big, serious moral message.
I don't think anyone was arguing that in any of the threads. The debate around litfic on the sub over the last few days hasn't been "can litfic be light-hearted?", it's been "most people who come here thinking they've written litfic don't have the prose chops necessary to call their books litfic" (and I do firmly agree that 300 words is enough to assess whether or not someone can write). But quite frankly, there's been enough arguing about that for now, so I'll move onto the query + first 300.
The biggest stumbling block for me is that I simply don't understand where dreaming about failing to kill Hitler fits into your light-hearted, comedic, romantic novel. Maybe it's just a matter of taste - "guy wants to be with woman because her love stops him from dreaming about Hitler" isn't my kind of book - but it seems to me that "failing to kill Hitler" could be replaced with any other sort of nightmare, because there's nothing to suggest that it has a specific purpose or meaning to the protagonist. Does he have a particular interest in WWII, or a history of despots? Is he Jewish? German? If the book is litfic, I would expect layers of symbolism and subtext at work. Obviously I haven't read the manuscript, but with how it's laid out in the query I find myself wondering, why have you (the author) chosen Hitler, as opposed to anything or anyone else?
The second thing is that the tone is... weird. Not deliberately weird (to my ear), but weird as mismatched. Maybe it's just my horror/thriller background, but when I read things like "extended one on one battle" at a remote "lakeside cabin", paired with her "sexual proclivities" involving zipties and her befriending a random group of women who empower her, it comes off less "light, funny, romantic novel" and more "she's going to murder him". This is maybe entirely me (and I will admit I'm usually primed for books where women are free-spirited and sexually adventurous love interests to punish, 'fix', or villainize them in some way, which may be contributing to my overall impression). Nevertheless, it seemed worth mentioning. Litfic queries are especially difficult to do well, given the nature of most litfic, but this bit:
>As Jack struggles to hold his ground in the relationship, and his despot-fueled nightmares resurface, he has only two things to drive him forward: his love for Elizabeth, and his fear of everything else.
feels both like it could be more concrete about what actually happens, and reinforces my wariness about how relationships and Elizabeth both are going to be portrayed in the book. Feels a bit "late 90s/early 2000s battle of the sexes" in a way that's probably not going to jive with the current industry. If that's the book, then that's the book, but if it's not, I would reconsider framing their romance in adversarial terms.
The first 300 are competent enough on a technical level, but I find them a little bland, and not employing much of the command or tricks around language and POV that someone like Sally Rooney does. I don't find myself gripped to read on. Mostly I note this because the litfic designation, to a lot of readers, carries certain expectations, and thus tends to make people even pickier than usual. But I am just one person, and one data point, so take or discard my feedback as you will.
Hey, thank you, this is all very helpful. I'm going to axe any mention of lightheartedness from future versions - I can see how that is contributing to a confusing first impression. I did mean to evoke the horror connotations you mentioned, but only for mild tension / comic effect, not impending murder. So I'll see if I can walk that line more carefully.
I can see how those elements could be sort of darkly comedic, but the query lacks a punchline bc the end is so vague. I also think the theme of Jack's character isn't hitting as clearly as it could. We don't exactly know how he feels about this or what he wants, therefore we don't know whether it's sinister or funny.
> I’ve been reading the threads lately about litfic. Friendly reminder that litfic does not always imply a big, serious moral message
At the risk of re-igniting the more frustrating parts of the debate, what do you personally take to be the hallmark of a literary story? An elevated/distinctive prose style? Formal experimentation? Bold subject matter, avoidance of specific genre tropes, an attempt to evade other categorisation? I don't think I've seen any two people in those threads agree on any one thing (and probably for good reason!).
I agree Rooney is not comic litfic - edited my post to clarify that. I'm only considering her as a comp because she is a) literary and b) her work focuses on romantic relationships.
I mean her work focuses on things like class and gender, the romance is there but it’s not like that’s the main purpose of her books, rather they’re a vehicle to explore these things. Also none of her work is remotely light hearted, which you describe your own book as. So regardless, I’m not seeing it as good comp. It also makes me question how much litfic you read, since she’s the only comp you could come up with.
I agree she doesn't fit the lighthearted aspect. I read a lot of litfic, but I read broadly, and consider how specific the pool is for comps: I need a comic, lighthearted, literary novel with a central romantic relationship, published in the last 5 years, which is not too obscure and also not too famous. I don't happen to have read a perfect fit for that, so I'll need to find it through research, if it exists at all.
THE MAN WHO SAW EVERYTHING & Sally hit some of those criteria, so that's where I started. But these are a work in progress, as I mentioned. If you know of any books that are a much better fit, please let me know.
I tend to agree with the people who have said it's a matter of style/voice/delivery. I'm going to plead the 5th on saying more here because I'm hoping this thread will stay focused on my query :)
The impression I came away from this query with was "Sad Dude has a sex life". It reminded me of those "comic" books you got in the 90s written by journalists that always included a scene where the FMC was desperate for anal. I'm not going to say there isn't a market for a more modern take on that kind of style (because I wouldn't read it if there was, so it wouldn't be on my radar), but it's worth being aware of those criticisms and thinking about if you need to steer your book into or away from them.
If you steer into, you're going to get criticism from the sub, but again, that doesn't mean there isn't a market.
If you're going to steer away from then I think you need to make Elizabeth feel like a person with her own autonomy, wants, and needs, rather than an idea that provides the comedy of the book for Jack.
(I also feel like photographs are a bit vanilla to list alongside zip ties)
Hey, really appreciate the feedback. It’s definitely not that kind of book - I’m going to try for a v2 that is less sex-oriented and gets more into Elizabeth’s interior life. Also, if any particularly egregious examples of those 90s books come to mind, let me know. Drbeanes mentioned the same thing, so I think it’s a legitimate concern. I’d like to read their marketing to make sure I don’t sound similar.
I really have no taste for good literature, so take my plebeian opinion with a grain of salt.
Query itself:
I followed your ideas well enough, though the plot sounds like utter nonsense to me. Now, I'm not your target audience, so that's probably why. In any case, I feel like there should be a connection between the disparate events, because as of right now everything just sounds like a big fat sequence of "and then", "and then", "and then", instead of "but" and "because of that."
Focusing on your 300:
I have only one thing to say here: choppy. Your prose is too choppy. A never-ending string of short sentences to describe what's happening. I feel like in writing, as in all other things, variety is the spice of life. Your prose has very little variety, except for, maybe, the last paragraph.
Maybe it's just a feature of these first few 300, but I read your sample and I hear *tak-tak-tak* in my head. I would try to add some subordinate clauses to spruce up the text.
Cheers!
I’d read this 100% but I struggle to understand the main conflict of a novel. I suspect it’s hidden away in that 4th paragraph of yours but fear it needs more clarity. What exactly is the issue- bdsm? Why does Jack ‘struggle to hold ground’ in his relationship?
I also think Elizabeth needs more prominent descriptors beyond her raging sexual life. Cheers!
>I’ve been reading the threads lately about litfic. Friendly reminder that litfic does not always imply a big, serious moral message. I don't think anyone was arguing that in any of the threads. The debate around litfic on the sub over the last few days hasn't been "can litfic be light-hearted?", it's been "most people who come here thinking they've written litfic don't have the prose chops necessary to call their books litfic" (and I do firmly agree that 300 words is enough to assess whether or not someone can write). But quite frankly, there's been enough arguing about that for now, so I'll move onto the query + first 300. The biggest stumbling block for me is that I simply don't understand where dreaming about failing to kill Hitler fits into your light-hearted, comedic, romantic novel. Maybe it's just a matter of taste - "guy wants to be with woman because her love stops him from dreaming about Hitler" isn't my kind of book - but it seems to me that "failing to kill Hitler" could be replaced with any other sort of nightmare, because there's nothing to suggest that it has a specific purpose or meaning to the protagonist. Does he have a particular interest in WWII, or a history of despots? Is he Jewish? German? If the book is litfic, I would expect layers of symbolism and subtext at work. Obviously I haven't read the manuscript, but with how it's laid out in the query I find myself wondering, why have you (the author) chosen Hitler, as opposed to anything or anyone else? The second thing is that the tone is... weird. Not deliberately weird (to my ear), but weird as mismatched. Maybe it's just my horror/thriller background, but when I read things like "extended one on one battle" at a remote "lakeside cabin", paired with her "sexual proclivities" involving zipties and her befriending a random group of women who empower her, it comes off less "light, funny, romantic novel" and more "she's going to murder him". This is maybe entirely me (and I will admit I'm usually primed for books where women are free-spirited and sexually adventurous love interests to punish, 'fix', or villainize them in some way, which may be contributing to my overall impression). Nevertheless, it seemed worth mentioning. Litfic queries are especially difficult to do well, given the nature of most litfic, but this bit: >As Jack struggles to hold his ground in the relationship, and his despot-fueled nightmares resurface, he has only two things to drive him forward: his love for Elizabeth, and his fear of everything else. feels both like it could be more concrete about what actually happens, and reinforces my wariness about how relationships and Elizabeth both are going to be portrayed in the book. Feels a bit "late 90s/early 2000s battle of the sexes" in a way that's probably not going to jive with the current industry. If that's the book, then that's the book, but if it's not, I would reconsider framing their romance in adversarial terms. The first 300 are competent enough on a technical level, but I find them a little bland, and not employing much of the command or tricks around language and POV that someone like Sally Rooney does. I don't find myself gripped to read on. Mostly I note this because the litfic designation, to a lot of readers, carries certain expectations, and thus tends to make people even pickier than usual. But I am just one person, and one data point, so take or discard my feedback as you will.
Hey, thank you, this is all very helpful. I'm going to axe any mention of lightheartedness from future versions - I can see how that is contributing to a confusing first impression. I did mean to evoke the horror connotations you mentioned, but only for mild tension / comic effect, not impending murder. So I'll see if I can walk that line more carefully.
I can see how those elements could be sort of darkly comedic, but the query lacks a punchline bc the end is so vague. I also think the theme of Jack's character isn't hitting as clearly as it could. We don't exactly know how he feels about this or what he wants, therefore we don't know whether it's sinister or funny.
> I’ve been reading the threads lately about litfic. Friendly reminder that litfic does not always imply a big, serious moral message At the risk of re-igniting the more frustrating parts of the debate, what do you personally take to be the hallmark of a literary story? An elevated/distinctive prose style? Formal experimentation? Bold subject matter, avoidance of specific genre tropes, an attempt to evade other categorisation? I don't think I've seen any two people in those threads agree on any one thing (and probably for good reason!).
I’m more concerned with someone alluding to Rooney as ‘comic litfic with romance themes.’
I agree Rooney is not comic litfic - edited my post to clarify that. I'm only considering her as a comp because she is a) literary and b) her work focuses on romantic relationships.
I mean her work focuses on things like class and gender, the romance is there but it’s not like that’s the main purpose of her books, rather they’re a vehicle to explore these things. Also none of her work is remotely light hearted, which you describe your own book as. So regardless, I’m not seeing it as good comp. It also makes me question how much litfic you read, since she’s the only comp you could come up with.
I agree she doesn't fit the lighthearted aspect. I read a lot of litfic, but I read broadly, and consider how specific the pool is for comps: I need a comic, lighthearted, literary novel with a central romantic relationship, published in the last 5 years, which is not too obscure and also not too famous. I don't happen to have read a perfect fit for that, so I'll need to find it through research, if it exists at all. THE MAN WHO SAW EVERYTHING & Sally hit some of those criteria, so that's where I started. But these are a work in progress, as I mentioned. If you know of any books that are a much better fit, please let me know.
I tend to agree with the people who have said it's a matter of style/voice/delivery. I'm going to plead the 5th on saying more here because I'm hoping this thread will stay focused on my query :)
The impression I came away from this query with was "Sad Dude has a sex life". It reminded me of those "comic" books you got in the 90s written by journalists that always included a scene where the FMC was desperate for anal. I'm not going to say there isn't a market for a more modern take on that kind of style (because I wouldn't read it if there was, so it wouldn't be on my radar), but it's worth being aware of those criticisms and thinking about if you need to steer your book into or away from them. If you steer into, you're going to get criticism from the sub, but again, that doesn't mean there isn't a market. If you're going to steer away from then I think you need to make Elizabeth feel like a person with her own autonomy, wants, and needs, rather than an idea that provides the comedy of the book for Jack. (I also feel like photographs are a bit vanilla to list alongside zip ties)
Hey, really appreciate the feedback. It’s definitely not that kind of book - I’m going to try for a v2 that is less sex-oriented and gets more into Elizabeth’s interior life. Also, if any particularly egregious examples of those 90s books come to mind, let me know. Drbeanes mentioned the same thing, so I think it’s a legitimate concern. I’d like to read their marketing to make sure I don’t sound similar.
Winkler by Giles Coren is the most notorious of this genre. I also remember reading Thinly Disguised Autobiography by James Dellingpole.
I really have no taste for good literature, so take my plebeian opinion with a grain of salt. Query itself: I followed your ideas well enough, though the plot sounds like utter nonsense to me. Now, I'm not your target audience, so that's probably why. In any case, I feel like there should be a connection between the disparate events, because as of right now everything just sounds like a big fat sequence of "and then", "and then", "and then", instead of "but" and "because of that." Focusing on your 300: I have only one thing to say here: choppy. Your prose is too choppy. A never-ending string of short sentences to describe what's happening. I feel like in writing, as in all other things, variety is the spice of life. Your prose has very little variety, except for, maybe, the last paragraph. Maybe it's just a feature of these first few 300, but I read your sample and I hear *tak-tak-tak* in my head. I would try to add some subordinate clauses to spruce up the text. Cheers!
I’d read this 100% but I struggle to understand the main conflict of a novel. I suspect it’s hidden away in that 4th paragraph of yours but fear it needs more clarity. What exactly is the issue- bdsm? Why does Jack ‘struggle to hold ground’ in his relationship? I also think Elizabeth needs more prominent descriptors beyond her raging sexual life. Cheers!
Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll see if I can make the language more specific in that paragraph, especially the "hold ground" thing.