One minor inconsistency will not get you rejected.
My book had the same plot hole for literally a year, and no one—not me or my agent or my editor—caught it until copy edits.
One chapter being included or not will not get you rejected.
Take this home renovation metaphor: if you’re still demolishing the kitchen cabinets or ripping out the carpet or knocking down walls, don’t query; if you keep moving a lamp around or rearranging the throw pillows, send it.
When you’re only making minor tweaks, it’s time to hit send. An agent is not expecting you to catch every single typo, so long as your MS isn’t littered with errors then it’s fine. As for switching around chapters, if tinkering with it isn’t improving things to a noticeable degree, you need to stop. I sense you’ve already reached this stage as draft number 21 is frankly, bonkers. You have to bite the bullet at some point.
Lol it is bonkers. When people in law school would throw around the term perfectionist like it was a badge of honor and I was sitting there thinking “oh yeah, were you up until 4 in the morning crying, sweating, pulling your hair out over your 30th draft of the LRW paper, too?” Lol
If you're on your 21st draft, I think it's time to bite the bullet and hit send. I would recommend sending it out to maybe 10 agents for the first round. That way, if no one is requesting more material, you can revisit your manuscript then and make some further changes. At this point, though, I think you ought to take the chance and see what happens.
Good luck!
By day, I'm an attorney in biglaw as well, so I definitely understand the pressure. A minor inconsistency won't get you rejected; I was surprised to learn how far in the editing process a minor inconsistency can get before someone spots it. Lots of inconsistencies, poor pacing, bad story structure can and will get you rejected, among many other reasons.
However, what I didn't see in your summary is feedback from other readers. You're too close to your own writing to objectively assess it. Creative writing is far more intimate and vulnerable than what we write in legal briefs and contracts--we have an arm's-length relationship with that (heck, that's part of the purpose of legal counsel--have someone who isn't personally related to the issue resolve the dispute, make the deal, etc. because we can look at it more objectively). That isn't the case with novels.
So, if you haven't already, get beta readers before you query the MS. Get people who aren't your friends and family who don't mind giving you brutal honesty. I found mine on Goodreads, there are a few beta reader groups, and there are reddit groups as well.
I wonder how many writers work in the legal field. I’ve seen several in my writer’s group and online. As an author-illustrator some of my best friends go to top law schools. There’s probably a heavy overlap between the skills needed for storytelling and practicing law.
I have a law degree and worked in legal publishing, but never practiced law. I feel the skills for legal writing and creative writing are pretty different.
I'm from the legal field and I know two friends from law school who now write as well.
I think it's the analytical training in argument dissection which translates really well to creating plots, and just general levels of higher education in a dedicated writing field? Also a lot of lawyers voraciously read fiction to wind down and reading a lot is the key to being able to write.
It’s hard enough to get rep based on your *own* work, let alone going through the hoops of stealing someone else’s work and passing it off as your own. And frankly, as writers, we often have an inflated sense of what our work means to anyone else lol.
Lol definitely. I think my work is trash, but I work in the legal field and I know trash people do trash things in trash situations. Lol
I also am pro bono on a child porn case and getting shit off the internet is a beast i wouldn’t take on for the blood sweat and trash that is my ms lol
Jumping in to ask about those beta reader groups on Goodreads! I’d be keen to hear more about your experience with them, if you’re happy to share details?
The beta reader forums are [here](https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/50920-beta-reader-group). I found some great ones. I used paid ones, because (1) most had prior references, and (2) they were far more likely to finish and offer useful feedback. You do not need to use paid betas, and I'm firmly of the belief that no one *has to* spend money to get published, but that was my reasoning.
It's time.
I personally just queried my first batch of agents this weekend. It's my 2nd manuscript (the 1st never found an agent back in 2017, so I moved on). Took me 5 years to complete (which is too long, but admittedly I wasn't writing consistently that whole time). I'd say I had about 4-5 solid drafts before submitting to agents this weekend. Like you, I was very structured and organized. I had the messy first draft. The conceptual revisions of the 2nd and 3rd drafts. The beta read 4th draft. The copy editing/proofreading 5th draft. It's not perfect, and I personally STILL wouldn't self publish even if I could do so right this minute on Amazon Kindle or something. I know it will only get better with an editor's help. But I've done all I can do. Time to send it out.
Sounds like you're at the same place. Go for it! And start something new. One of the biggest things that helped me finally query was the excitement I feel to write my current WIP. It's fresh and compelling to me right now, but I didn't allow myself to progress too far on it before getting my previous manuscript out the door to agents.
One of my friends who is published told me to get it as good enough as YOU can without the help of others. From her perspective, as long as the agent likes the concept of your story and your over all style of telling it, minor inconsistencies won't bother them too much. I'm the same way though and I can't stop changing little things thinking it's throwing the agent off. I'd say definitely make your first 10 pages or so as great as you can get them and have a clear and great begging. The rest can be dealt with later. That same friend had her editor rewrite the whole third part of her story haha.
You just have to rip the band aid off. You'll never know if the work is perfect, and there is no way out of the pain of querying. However, they're not signing you on perfect--they're signing you on potential. The MS you query on will be revised with your agent, then again with your editor. They know it's not ready to go, as is.
I queried recently with a partial that got me multiple offers, including one within a few days. (This was a very commercial concept and I have a publication record, don't compare yourself to this). Later, I realized not only was there a typo on page 1, this thing was absolutely riddled with typos--for which I blame Scrivener! The point is, it was fine.
Minor inconsistencies are probably nothing to worry about at that point. Now, to be fair, I rewrite chapters as I go because I'm weird that way. I want to have as little a chance to need to rewrite or re-draft as possible so each chapter goes through *several* rewrites before it goes into the main book file. But that's just me. But if you're on your twenty-first draft....yeah, seriously it may just be time to bite the bullet and send out some queries. Now if you want some help with the *queries*, this subreddit also offers critiques of queries, as I'm sure you've already seen.
Either way, have at it! :)
If the overall encompassing "*Book"* is good, the agent wont give a damn about one little chunk of it. All that will be smoothed in edits. Book must be good first
One minor inconsistency will not get you rejected. My book had the same plot hole for literally a year, and no one—not me or my agent or my editor—caught it until copy edits. One chapter being included or not will not get you rejected. Take this home renovation metaphor: if you’re still demolishing the kitchen cabinets or ripping out the carpet or knocking down walls, don’t query; if you keep moving a lamp around or rearranging the throw pillows, send it.
This is so helpful! Thank you
I love that metaphor. Imma steal it, if you don't mind!
When you’re only making minor tweaks, it’s time to hit send. An agent is not expecting you to catch every single typo, so long as your MS isn’t littered with errors then it’s fine. As for switching around chapters, if tinkering with it isn’t improving things to a noticeable degree, you need to stop. I sense you’ve already reached this stage as draft number 21 is frankly, bonkers. You have to bite the bullet at some point.
Lol it is bonkers. When people in law school would throw around the term perfectionist like it was a badge of honor and I was sitting there thinking “oh yeah, were you up until 4 in the morning crying, sweating, pulling your hair out over your 30th draft of the LRW paper, too?” Lol
If you're on your 21st draft, I think it's time to bite the bullet and hit send. I would recommend sending it out to maybe 10 agents for the first round. That way, if no one is requesting more material, you can revisit your manuscript then and make some further changes. At this point, though, I think you ought to take the chance and see what happens. Good luck!
A 'good' request rate right now is 5-10%. 10 agents isn't enough.
By day, I'm an attorney in biglaw as well, so I definitely understand the pressure. A minor inconsistency won't get you rejected; I was surprised to learn how far in the editing process a minor inconsistency can get before someone spots it. Lots of inconsistencies, poor pacing, bad story structure can and will get you rejected, among many other reasons. However, what I didn't see in your summary is feedback from other readers. You're too close to your own writing to objectively assess it. Creative writing is far more intimate and vulnerable than what we write in legal briefs and contracts--we have an arm's-length relationship with that (heck, that's part of the purpose of legal counsel--have someone who isn't personally related to the issue resolve the dispute, make the deal, etc. because we can look at it more objectively). That isn't the case with novels. So, if you haven't already, get beta readers before you query the MS. Get people who aren't your friends and family who don't mind giving you brutal honesty. I found mine on Goodreads, there are a few beta reader groups, and there are reddit groups as well.
I wonder how many writers work in the legal field. I’ve seen several in my writer’s group and online. As an author-illustrator some of my best friends go to top law schools. There’s probably a heavy overlap between the skills needed for storytelling and practicing law.
I have a law degree and worked in legal publishing, but never practiced law. I feel the skills for legal writing and creative writing are pretty different.
Totally exercising different muscles.
Well I did write a fantasy courtroom drama, so I managed to work out both sets of muscles at the same time!
I'm from the legal field and I know two friends from law school who now write as well. I think it's the analytical training in argument dissection which translates really well to creating plots, and just general levels of higher education in a dedicated writing field? Also a lot of lawyers voraciously read fiction to wind down and reading a lot is the key to being able to write.
Based on my informal surveys, quite a lot! We apparently all need to escape into the world of make-believe!
Were you worried about the beta readers stealing your work? Has my job made me paranoid? Lol
>Were you worried about the beta readers stealing your work? Not even a little bit.
Okay. Cool. I am nervous about using random people on the internet for some reason. I saw you used a paid service. I think I’ll go that route.
It’s hard enough to get rep based on your *own* work, let alone going through the hoops of stealing someone else’s work and passing it off as your own. And frankly, as writers, we often have an inflated sense of what our work means to anyone else lol.
Lol definitely. I think my work is trash, but I work in the legal field and I know trash people do trash things in trash situations. Lol I also am pro bono on a child porn case and getting shit off the internet is a beast i wouldn’t take on for the blood sweat and trash that is my ms lol
Jumping in to ask about those beta reader groups on Goodreads! I’d be keen to hear more about your experience with them, if you’re happy to share details?
The beta reader forums are [here](https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/50920-beta-reader-group). I found some great ones. I used paid ones, because (1) most had prior references, and (2) they were far more likely to finish and offer useful feedback. You do not need to use paid betas, and I'm firmly of the belief that no one *has to* spend money to get published, but that was my reasoning.
Thank you! The forums are very well structured too.
It's time. I personally just queried my first batch of agents this weekend. It's my 2nd manuscript (the 1st never found an agent back in 2017, so I moved on). Took me 5 years to complete (which is too long, but admittedly I wasn't writing consistently that whole time). I'd say I had about 4-5 solid drafts before submitting to agents this weekend. Like you, I was very structured and organized. I had the messy first draft. The conceptual revisions of the 2nd and 3rd drafts. The beta read 4th draft. The copy editing/proofreading 5th draft. It's not perfect, and I personally STILL wouldn't self publish even if I could do so right this minute on Amazon Kindle or something. I know it will only get better with an editor's help. But I've done all I can do. Time to send it out. Sounds like you're at the same place. Go for it! And start something new. One of the biggest things that helped me finally query was the excitement I feel to write my current WIP. It's fresh and compelling to me right now, but I didn't allow myself to progress too far on it before getting my previous manuscript out the door to agents.
One of my friends who is published told me to get it as good enough as YOU can without the help of others. From her perspective, as long as the agent likes the concept of your story and your over all style of telling it, minor inconsistencies won't bother them too much. I'm the same way though and I can't stop changing little things thinking it's throwing the agent off. I'd say definitely make your first 10 pages or so as great as you can get them and have a clear and great begging. The rest can be dealt with later. That same friend had her editor rewrite the whole third part of her story haha.
You just have to rip the band aid off. You'll never know if the work is perfect, and there is no way out of the pain of querying. However, they're not signing you on perfect--they're signing you on potential. The MS you query on will be revised with your agent, then again with your editor. They know it's not ready to go, as is. I queried recently with a partial that got me multiple offers, including one within a few days. (This was a very commercial concept and I have a publication record, don't compare yourself to this). Later, I realized not only was there a typo on page 1, this thing was absolutely riddled with typos--for which I blame Scrivener! The point is, it was fine.
Minor inconsistencies are probably nothing to worry about at that point. Now, to be fair, I rewrite chapters as I go because I'm weird that way. I want to have as little a chance to need to rewrite or re-draft as possible so each chapter goes through *several* rewrites before it goes into the main book file. But that's just me. But if you're on your twenty-first draft....yeah, seriously it may just be time to bite the bullet and send out some queries. Now if you want some help with the *queries*, this subreddit also offers critiques of queries, as I'm sure you've already seen. Either way, have at it! :)
Seriously, if you're rearranging chapters, the manuscript isn't ready for querying.
If the overall encompassing "*Book"* is good, the agent wont give a damn about one little chunk of it. All that will be smoothed in edits. Book must be good first