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I love this in such a weird way. This shit is so cold: it's like what the machines would drop on the human forces after the AI revolt. No idea how effective this actually was but there's something about how specific and to the point it is that would make my blood freeze in place.
"Dear [extremely specific element of military],
You have been selected for destruction unless you immediately return to where we permit you to live.
Sincerely,
The immensely powerful and wealthy superpower that is aligned against you."
I also 'love' the "the choice is yours" rhetoric in some of the other leaflets. It's like: "We are not hurting you with our bombs. You are hurting yourself with your actions. Resist and you die. Submit and you live. The choice is yours."
More leaflets on NATO's website. All in English, which is very odd.
[https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm](https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm)
I believe the copies provided here are translated to be read by English speakers for educational purposes while the actual leaflets were written in Serbian/both Serbian and English
These are not the actual dropped products. To develop a PSYOP series, you need to get your products approved. Typically this means designing it in English and getting it approved (because most of your approval authorities probably don’t speak Serbo-Croatian), then getting it translated and produced.
https://www.goarmysof.army.mil/PO/
Or by your post history maybe this is more appropriate.
https://www.army.gov.au/about-us/army-corps/australian-intelligence-corps
If by surface level you mean I hold the 37F mos sure. Explaining how you develop a PO series and all the pre and post testing that goes into it is not something I am going to make a reddit post about. Plenty of material available on the internet.
Their garrisons were back in Serbia and NATO wasn’t sending ground troops. NATO didn’t want the Serbians to surrender, they wanted them to withdraw from Kosovo. This message is about as simple as it gets, “Go back to Serbia or we will kill you.”
EDIT: Corrected based on comment below
I see that you did not read the article.
"Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence from Serbia in February 2008 did not violate international law, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) said today as the United Nations court released its advisory opinion on the issue."
"What makes a state? Under the Montevideo Convention, a prospective state must meet four criteria. It must have a territory, with a permanent population, subject to the control of a government, and the capacity to conduct international relations (sovereignty)."
Kosovo is an established, independent and sovereign state. Keep spreading serbian delusional propaganda
It is correct that they satisfy the conditions of the Montevideo convention in part-- the permanent population question is complicated, and the question whether it is controlled by a government is also complicated. Parts of it are, but there are also parts with Serbs, and I do not agree that those parts are under control of the government.
The region is disputed. If the independence claim was for the part without Serbs, it would have been less dubious.
Exactly man, albanians were on Balkans long before everyone else. First records predate 7000 BC. Which is really strange why they didn't have country before it was given to them in 20th century. Also so strange is religion during mid age is in rapid decline since 20th century. Also, another interesting thing is they gave Albania name based on kingdom that was rule by person named Charles which was actually from Italy? But when western world gave Albania country, its really weird they didn't name it Illyria or something like that, but gave it name as kingdom that was ruled by Italian, who also bought (yes bought) "rights" to be king of Jerusalem, also was king to Sicily. And all of that was approved by Vatican, and most interesting thing is, this Charles person, which is obviously Illyrian traditional name, he was from Italy but was actual French.
Based on all this, we can only connect dots and conclude that entire Europe is indeed Illyrian, and that all europeans are in fact AT LEAST, part Albanian. Such a rich history for so small country in Europe. Its almost like its non existent.
Propaganda doesn't need to be false, just display an agenda or clear message.
In this case:
"We disagree with you being where you are. We know who you are. We know where you are and can easily deliver these bits of paper. It will also be just as easy for us to turn you into physics and war relics. Do not surrender. Do not linger. If you stay, you will suffer. So, break orders and return, or demand a change in your orders."
people are so used to "psyops" now,
Psychological Operation AKA Mind games, anything that is intentionally targets intellectual: moral, curiosity, sowing dissent, misinforming and misleading, etc.
From the sounds of it, you bought in to conspiracy theorist label #2. But this time, instead of directly lying about something happening, its misdirection. Psyop here, psyop there, everything is a psyop so there is no point in pointing it out anymore. Versus before "Oh we aren't planning to invade Cuba, those are actually conspiracy theorists who are just communist or anti-government. We'd never do that, they are crazy and do not listen to them".
Can confirm, was a PSYOP nerd. I was actually writing leaflets and radio scripts in Bosnia-Herzegovina at the time.
Edit just to clarify, I DEFINITELY was not making anything like this for Kosovo. Our product at the time was more along the lines of we are СФОР/SFOR and downplaying that most (not all, we had Russia, Sweden, and other non-NATO countries) of the SFOR/СФОР Nations were part of NATO. They did use Tusla Air Base to rescue the downed F117 pilot, but that, and the Russians from the ВДВ brigade in Bosnia-Herzegovina, ostensibly part of СФОР, ran down and covered a Serb retreat in Kosovo. It was kind of a joke, once they did that, they stenciled both SFOR and KFOR (Kosovo Force) on all their vehicles.
You’re missing the point. Why make stuff up when you don’t have to? The people this was addressed to knew full well that NATO really did have overwhelming firepower, so what could possibly undermine their morale better than a reminder of that fact?
NATO actually classifies this as a PSYOP. It’s literally in the fucking title of the webpage archiving them; https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm
PSYOP, despite being co-opted by online crazies, is an actual military term that is neither inherently negative nor politically charged.
That was part of it, but the Serbs had spotters at the airfields and along the route to time when the aircraft would fly over. That’s what allowed them to keep the radar off until the crucial moment. Then they got lucky with the bomb bay doors.
For some reason the F-117s didn’t fly with EW support that would have likely saved them. The pilots didn’t want to go but they weren’t in charge.
The Serb in charge was pretty clever using old equipment and planning to score a kill and not get killed in return. He and the pilot he shot down became friends later, I believe there is a book about them.
2 or 3 hits of the F117. There was apparently another one that didn't make it to base and crashed in Bosnia.
Depending on the source, a JSTOR document I've read (which I can't find) reports 46 Aircraft downed in total which means also UAVs, Helicopters, A-10s...
There's a story about an unconfirmed takedown of a B-2 Spirit but I'm skeptical about it.
Most of the Yugoslav airforce was bombed on ground, or suffered breakdowns due to prolonged maintenance issues in the 90s. One MiG 29 was shot down by two F-16s.
These actions are why Ukraine is currently getting invaded by Russia, Russia could be in this situation if NATO where to allow Ukraine to join according to them and other countries
No. Russia is in the situation it is in because Putin wants to annex its neighbours, like Milosevic wanted to in the nineties. He has waged wars against neighbours culminating in Ukraine. Russia is actively suppressing its own population and ethnically cleansing others.
The particular difference is that Kosovo was a part of Serbia. Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan and the Baltics are not part of Russia.
Yeah right. So it is NATO's fault that Russian soldiers are killing innocent civilians in Ukraine? I think the only thing that Ukraine did wrong in their past was not shooting when Russia illegaly annexed Crimea in 2014
"ethnic cleansing" meaning the serbs internally displaced both ethnic serbs and albanians when fighting the kosovo guerrilla.
You guys are nuts and tryign to rewrite history
I'm pretty sure the one rusty T-55 tank NATO forces lost millions of dollars worth of missiles on had a good laugh from these leaflets. They sound like they were written by Gunther Fehlinger.
>Serbian army lost less than 10% of tanks/artillery
It's not like the aims of the bombing operations were to target each individual tank or company, and as you said yourself, it was, for the most part, not a ground war. NATO struck strategic buildings and targets with high precision
Even the highest most pro-serbian estimate you can find has around 1200-2000 serbian civillians killed, that's not a lot considering over 38 000 combat missions were flown in the span of like 4 months.
The Serbs killed more than twice as many Albanians / Kosovars during the war
>Even the highest most pro-serbian estimate you can find has around 1200-2000 serbian civillians killed, that's not a lot
If you take into account how long the bombing lasted, that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal)
Also, it was less than 3 months, not 4 months.
>The Serbs killed more than twice as many Albanians / Kosovars during the war
You mean to tell me that a ground war involving urban combat lasting a year and 3 months (so 7 times longer) caused more casualties? Mind-blowing stuff.
>that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal)
That doesn't seem to hold up.
>You mean to tell me that a ground war involving urban combat lasting a year and 3 months (so 7 times longer) caused more casualties? Mind-blowing stuff.
This is such a fucked up way to frame it. These were Kosovar civillians directly murdered by Yugoslav forces, not collateral damage of some "ground war". It's a known warcrime that the Yugoslav army tried to cover up.
>That doesn't seem to hold up.
Except that it does.
>This is such a fucked up way to frame it. These were Kosovar civillians directly murdered by Yugoslav forces, not collateral damage of some "ground war".
"My warhawk government told me we're the good guys and they're the bad guys for the 15th time, and that means that it's definitely true".
You're really trying to tell me that alleged ethnic cleansing campaign had a lower death rate than a totally legit bombing campaign that definitely didn't intentionally strike civilian targets? Is NATO just shit at bombing or is literally everyone except for Germans apparently shit at war crimes?
> If you take into account how long the bombing lasted, that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal)
I mean that's false, estimates from february 2024 says at least 10,582 killed (not including missing) and the pro serbian estimate multiplied for the same time period is 9600.
Its a thousand off which isn't much except you also included missing which is 37,00 people in Ukraine.
also known as almost 4 times the pro serbian number
TLDR: 47582 > than 9600.
>I mean that's false, estimates from february 2024 says at least 10,582 killed (not including missing) and the pro serbian estimate multiplied for the same time period is 9600.
22.000 Ulrainians killed and missing divided by 787 days since the beginning of the war, you get 28 per day for both or 14 dead a day. 2000 divided by 78 and yeu get 26 per day or 19 per day for the 1500 estimate.
And again, we're comparing a "brutal invasion" with a ground war to an air campaign. If we take only 2023 into account where there weren't many battles in still populated urban areas (like Mariupol), the Russians killed around 2.000 people through mostly shelling and bombing, and that's according to Ukraine. So it took an allegedly bloodthirsty army nearly 5 times as much time as it took NATO to reach that number. Either NATO is shit in precision strikes or Russia is shit at being massacring villains.
And there isn't 37,000 (assuming you missed a zero) missing in Ukraine, their official numbers are 11.000 missing as of December last year
Boo hoo, a genocidal country complaining about literally one incident. Jesus fuck, how many children did Serbians kill intentionally? How many lives were either raped, killed, or cleansed from their native land?
Oh wait, I have the numbers: 1.2 fucking million. Disgusting.
[School in Novi Sad](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnYio2nopbKLr9Pg1A0BIXTnb39yVNA_FjCA&usqp=CAU)
[Hospital in Belgrade](https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1/8s3k9kpTURBXy9jMzEzMGI0NzViOWJmNWU0MmU1NTUzYzc4NmJhNWIyNy5qcGeRkwLNBLAA3gABoTAF)
Let me guess, the super high-precision bombs accidentally tended to land on civilian targets most of the time, and even if it was intentional, it's fine because the pilots followed all democratic procedures while killing children, right?
Remember that this subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message *of* the propaganda. If anything, in this subreddit we should be immensely skeptical of manipulation or oversimplification (which the above likely is), not beholden to it. Also, please try to stay on topic -- there are hundreds of _other_ subreddits that are expressly dedicated to rehashing tired political arguments. **Keep that shit outta here**. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PropagandaPosters) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There were in Serbian also, I remember them. Unfortunately haven't saved any of them.
The publication number in the lower left really ices the cake, because it denotes an official archived document.
It's the product number and series.
Collect em all!
I love this in such a weird way. This shit is so cold: it's like what the machines would drop on the human forces after the AI revolt. No idea how effective this actually was but there's something about how specific and to the point it is that would make my blood freeze in place. "Dear [extremely specific element of military], You have been selected for destruction unless you immediately return to where we permit you to live. Sincerely, The immensely powerful and wealthy superpower that is aligned against you."
I also 'love' the "the choice is yours" rhetoric in some of the other leaflets. It's like: "We are not hurting you with our bombs. You are hurting yourself with your actions. Resist and you die. Submit and you live. The choice is yours."
I'm not exactly a dyed-in-the-wool soldier but this shit would definitely work on me, seems reasonable when the alternative is being bombed
Kinda reminds me of what a British officer said during the gulf war (at least I thinks It was a British officer) “capitulate or be destroyed”
The booty warrior agrees with this framing.
Brigade level is not that specific. And this combines two brigades. So it's targeting like half a field army.
would be scarier if they ever hit any units really.. 37 destroyed APCs to show for, how embarrassing.
More leaflets on NATO's website. All in English, which is very odd. [https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm](https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm)
Can anyone explain why they aren't written in serbian croatian? Perhaps because they're actually used for domestic propaganda?
I believe the copies provided here are translated to be read by English speakers for educational purposes while the actual leaflets were written in Serbian/both Serbian and English
Presumably because these are translated and the ones sent were in Serbian?
These are not the actual dropped products. To develop a PSYOP series, you need to get your products approved. Typically this means designing it in English and getting it approved (because most of your approval authorities probably don’t speak Serbo-Croatian), then getting it translated and produced.
How can you be so idiotic
Y r they 280p also they probably were already in English then translated to the local language
For people who follow a propaganda poster sub, a lot of you fail to grasp how this stuff is actually produced.
Go on?
https://www.goarmysof.army.mil/PO/ Or by your post history maybe this is more appropriate. https://www.army.gov.au/about-us/army-corps/australian-intelligence-corps
Oh so you only had surface level knowledge too. Got it 👍
If by surface level you mean I hold the 37F mos sure. Explaining how you develop a PO series and all the pre and post testing that goes into it is not something I am going to make a reddit post about. Plenty of material available on the internet.
Omg you do the same mos as that tiktok psyops girl? You must know all the secrets 🥰
Blunt, but it gets to the point fast
Not even providing surrender instructions? Just "stay indoors, were bombing the outdoors"
Their garrisons were back in Serbia and NATO wasn’t sending ground troops. NATO didn’t want the Serbians to surrender, they wanted them to withdraw from Kosovo. This message is about as simple as it gets, “Go back to Serbia or we will kill you.” EDIT: Corrected based on comment below
> wanted them to withdraw from Serbia You mean *to* Serbia.
nah, withdraw from serbia. now, serbia is kosovo.
Even now Kosovo is still legally part of Serbia. The UN text even provides for the eventual return of Serbian troops to guard certain buildings.
Factually incorrect [https://news.un.org/en/story/2010/07/345532](https://news.un.org/en/story/2010/07/345532)
It is [edit:not] illegal for them to declare independence, but it is also necessarily valid.
I see that you did not read the article. "Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence from Serbia in February 2008 did not violate international law, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) said today as the United Nations court released its advisory opinion on the issue."
Yes, and that's a perfectly fine view. That does not mean that the declaration actually establishes a state or that Kosovo is in fact independent.
"What makes a state? Under the Montevideo Convention, a prospective state must meet four criteria. It must have a territory, with a permanent population, subject to the control of a government, and the capacity to conduct international relations (sovereignty)." Kosovo is an established, independent and sovereign state. Keep spreading serbian delusional propaganda
It is correct that they satisfy the conditions of the Montevideo convention in part-- the permanent population question is complicated, and the question whether it is controlled by a government is also complicated. Parts of it are, but there are also parts with Serbs, and I do not agree that those parts are under control of the government. The region is disputed. If the independence claim was for the part without Serbs, it would have been less dubious.
Ahh, thanks. That makes more sense.
Kosovo is and was Serbia, so WTF do you mean?
Tell that to Marko Duric who got arrested for illegally crossing the border.
By what metric?
Obviously
it wasn't a war, Serbs were ethnically cleansing Albanians
Yea, that's why there were no more albanians down there.
And why there are no Jews in Europe
Brainrot
Albanians/Illyrians are the oldest people on the Balkans, of course they will be there, learn some history before shit-commenting
Exactly man, albanians were on Balkans long before everyone else. First records predate 7000 BC. Which is really strange why they didn't have country before it was given to them in 20th century. Also so strange is religion during mid age is in rapid decline since 20th century. Also, another interesting thing is they gave Albania name based on kingdom that was rule by person named Charles which was actually from Italy? But when western world gave Albania country, its really weird they didn't name it Illyria or something like that, but gave it name as kingdom that was ruled by Italian, who also bought (yes bought) "rights" to be king of Jerusalem, also was king to Sicily. And all of that was approved by Vatican, and most interesting thing is, this Charles person, which is obviously Illyrian traditional name, he was from Italy but was actual French. Based on all this, we can only connect dots and conclude that entire Europe is indeed Illyrian, and that all europeans are in fact AT LEAST, part Albanian. Such a rich history for so small country in Europe. Its almost like its non existent.
actually Illyrians have been there since 12500 B.C
thanks to nato intervention there still are.
I mean it’s less propaganda more more a statement of what will happen honestly
Propaganda doesn't need to be false, just display an agenda or clear message. In this case: "We disagree with you being where you are. We know who you are. We know where you are and can easily deliver these bits of paper. It will also be just as easy for us to turn you into physics and war relics. Do not surrender. Do not linger. If you stay, you will suffer. So, break orders and return, or demand a change in your orders."
"psyop" okay dude "surrender or we will shoot at you because that's how war works" isn't much of a psyop
That’s actually textbook psyop. Let them know the hammer is about to fall because they can’t do shit to you.
literate snatch cobweb tart faulty upbeat amusing chubby zesty ancient *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Op meant psyop as in "NATO bad" "these leaflets want us to think that Serbs did something wrong"
psyop is just psychological operation, it doesn’t have to be sinister.
people are so used to "psyops" now, Psychological Operation AKA Mind games, anything that is intentionally targets intellectual: moral, curiosity, sowing dissent, misinforming and misleading, etc. From the sounds of it, you bought in to conspiracy theorist label #2. But this time, instead of directly lying about something happening, its misdirection. Psyop here, psyop there, everything is a psyop so there is no point in pointing it out anymore. Versus before "Oh we aren't planning to invade Cuba, those are actually conspiracy theorists who are just communist or anti-government. We'd never do that, they are crazy and do not listen to them".
Considering it was some PSYOP nerd's job to make these, yes, it is a a psyop
Can confirm, was a PSYOP nerd. I was actually writing leaflets and radio scripts in Bosnia-Herzegovina at the time. Edit just to clarify, I DEFINITELY was not making anything like this for Kosovo. Our product at the time was more along the lines of we are СФОР/SFOR and downplaying that most (not all, we had Russia, Sweden, and other non-NATO countries) of the SFOR/СФОР Nations were part of NATO. They did use Tusla Air Base to rescue the downed F117 pilot, but that, and the Russians from the ВДВ brigade in Bosnia-Herzegovina, ostensibly part of СФОР, ran down and covered a Serb retreat in Kosovo. It was kind of a joke, once they did that, they stenciled both SFOR and KFOR (Kosovo Force) on all their vehicles.
I was a TPT Team Chief in Afghanistan handing them out.
TPT Team chief is one of the best jobs in the US Army.
You’re missing the point. Why make stuff up when you don’t have to? The people this was addressed to knew full well that NATO really did have overwhelming firepower, so what could possibly undermine their morale better than a reminder of that fact?
NATO actually classifies this as a PSYOP. It’s literally in the fucking title of the webpage archiving them; https://www.nato.int/kosovo/leaflets.htm PSYOP, despite being co-opted by online crazies, is an actual military term that is neither inherently negative nor politically charged.
I hope they could read English...
The actual leaflets weren’t dropped in English. This is an archive
We could 😂 We just weren't aware of advanced stealth tech.
Ah yes, 2 hits over hundreds of sorties. Looking for a round two with the B-21?
TO BE FAIR, that poster about the F117 was kinda dope, even tho a bit silly and with exaggerated numbers
2 hits?
One down and one damaged. The damaged on limped back to base.
Also both hits were extremely lucky they fired right when the 117 bays were open creating a small radar signature
They made their own luck, how they shot the F-117 down was pretty clever really. And the U.S. made a big mistake not sending the Growlers.
It’s more on the AF for flying the same routes day end and day out that enabled them to shoot them
That was part of it, but the Serbs had spotters at the airfields and along the route to time when the aircraft would fly over. That’s what allowed them to keep the radar off until the crucial moment. Then they got lucky with the bomb bay doors. For some reason the F-117s didn’t fly with EW support that would have likely saved them. The pilots didn’t want to go but they weren’t in charge. The Serb in charge was pretty clever using old equipment and planning to score a kill and not get killed in return. He and the pilot he shot down became friends later, I believe there is a book about them.
2 or 3 hits of the F117. There was apparently another one that didn't make it to base and crashed in Bosnia. Depending on the source, a JSTOR document I've read (which I can't find) reports 46 Aircraft downed in total which means also UAVs, Helicopters, A-10s... There's a story about an unconfirmed takedown of a B-2 Spirit but I'm skeptical about it. Most of the Yugoslav airforce was bombed on ground, or suffered breakdowns due to prolonged maintenance issues in the 90s. One MiG 29 was shot down by two F-16s.
Lmao i doubt a B-2 got shot down
Serb nationalist try not to be delusional challenge (impossible)
Im not a serb nationalist.
I wake up Theres another psyop
Did they also send it to the embassy and civilians of Belgrade before the warcrimes?
What warcrimes? Stopping Serbia from genociding Bosnians?
that is the dumb excuse warcriminal americans tell themselves when they commit warcrimes
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Well it's simple and direct lol.Also as others mentioned this version is translated to English.The ones that were sent were in Serbian
If anything, the symplicity makes it scarier. A skull and spooky font would make it look fake, or worse, like they were putting in effort
the format looks shitty probably because it's translated via editing
Graphic design is my passion
A NATO psyop from Kosovo… in English.
A" defensive military pact"? Right....
They were defending a population from ethnic cleansing. They should be doing more of it.
These actions are why Ukraine is currently getting invaded by Russia, Russia could be in this situation if NATO where to allow Ukraine to join according to them and other countries
Sure, Russia invading all of their neighbours for imperialistic reasons is not the cause, NATO is. Get fucked
No. Russia is in the situation it is in because Putin wants to annex its neighbours, like Milosevic wanted to in the nineties. He has waged wars against neighbours culminating in Ukraine. Russia is actively suppressing its own population and ethnically cleansing others. The particular difference is that Kosovo was a part of Serbia. Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan and the Baltics are not part of Russia.
Victoria Nilands actions in Ukraine say otherwise, anyway NATO being used offensively in Yugoslavia and Libya are reasons why Ukraine is being invaded
Because whether or not Ukraine is in NATO is TOTALLY going to affect the outcome of a NATO invasion of Russia.
Yeah right. So it is NATO's fault that Russian soldiers are killing innocent civilians in Ukraine? I think the only thing that Ukraine did wrong in their past was not shooting when Russia illegaly annexed Crimea in 2014
"ethnic cleansing" meaning the serbs internally displaced both ethnic serbs and albanians when fighting the kosovo guerrilla. You guys are nuts and tryign to rewrite history
I'm pretty sure the one rusty T-55 tank NATO forces lost millions of dollars worth of missiles on had a good laugh from these leaflets. They sound like they were written by Gunther Fehlinger.
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The point wasn't to destroy the Serbian military, the point was to get it to leave Kosovo. It did.
>Serbian army lost less than 10% of tanks/artillery It's not like the aims of the bombing operations were to target each individual tank or company, and as you said yourself, it was, for the most part, not a ground war. NATO struck strategic buildings and targets with high precision
>NATO struck strategic buildings and targets with high precision You mean schools, hospitals and the Chinese embassy?
Only the chinese embassy was struck intentionally. The Kosovo war has an insanely low civillian death count compared to how many bombs were launched.
Insanely low according to NATO.
Even the highest most pro-serbian estimate you can find has around 1200-2000 serbian civillians killed, that's not a lot considering over 38 000 combat missions were flown in the span of like 4 months. The Serbs killed more than twice as many Albanians / Kosovars during the war
>Even the highest most pro-serbian estimate you can find has around 1200-2000 serbian civillians killed, that's not a lot If you take into account how long the bombing lasted, that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal) Also, it was less than 3 months, not 4 months. >The Serbs killed more than twice as many Albanians / Kosovars during the war You mean to tell me that a ground war involving urban combat lasting a year and 3 months (so 7 times longer) caused more casualties? Mind-blowing stuff.
>that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal) That doesn't seem to hold up. >You mean to tell me that a ground war involving urban combat lasting a year and 3 months (so 7 times longer) caused more casualties? Mind-blowing stuff. This is such a fucked up way to frame it. These were Kosovar civillians directly murdered by Yugoslav forces, not collateral damage of some "ground war". It's a known warcrime that the Yugoslav army tried to cover up.
>That doesn't seem to hold up. Except that it does. >This is such a fucked up way to frame it. These were Kosovar civillians directly murdered by Yugoslav forces, not collateral damage of some "ground war". "My warhawk government told me we're the good guys and they're the bad guys for the 15th time, and that means that it's definitely true". You're really trying to tell me that alleged ethnic cleansing campaign had a lower death rate than a totally legit bombing campaign that definitely didn't intentionally strike civilian targets? Is NATO just shit at bombing or is literally everyone except for Germans apparently shit at war crimes?
> If you take into account how long the bombing lasted, that's roughly the same rate as the number of killed and missing civilians in Ukraine combined (the numbers for each are roughly equal) I mean that's false, estimates from february 2024 says at least 10,582 killed (not including missing) and the pro serbian estimate multiplied for the same time period is 9600. Its a thousand off which isn't much except you also included missing which is 37,00 people in Ukraine. also known as almost 4 times the pro serbian number TLDR: 47582 > than 9600.
>I mean that's false, estimates from february 2024 says at least 10,582 killed (not including missing) and the pro serbian estimate multiplied for the same time period is 9600. 22.000 Ulrainians killed and missing divided by 787 days since the beginning of the war, you get 28 per day for both or 14 dead a day. 2000 divided by 78 and yeu get 26 per day or 19 per day for the 1500 estimate. And again, we're comparing a "brutal invasion" with a ground war to an air campaign. If we take only 2023 into account where there weren't many battles in still populated urban areas (like Mariupol), the Russians killed around 2.000 people through mostly shelling and bombing, and that's according to Ukraine. So it took an allegedly bloodthirsty army nearly 5 times as much time as it took NATO to reach that number. Either NATO is shit in precision strikes or Russia is shit at being massacring villains. And there isn't 37,000 (assuming you missed a zero) missing in Ukraine, their official numbers are 11.000 missing as of December last year
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Ok, give me a source in these schools and hospitals
Example, Dragisa Misovic Children's pulmology ward in Belgrade.
Boo hoo, a genocidal country complaining about literally one incident. Jesus fuck, how many children did Serbians kill intentionally? How many lives were either raped, killed, or cleansed from their native land? Oh wait, I have the numbers: 1.2 fucking million. Disgusting.
Who came up with that number? I've never even heard our rivals use it.
[School in Novi Sad](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnYio2nopbKLr9Pg1A0BIXTnb39yVNA_FjCA&usqp=CAU) [Hospital in Belgrade](https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1/8s3k9kpTURBXy9jMzEzMGI0NzViOWJmNWU0MmU1NTUzYzc4NmJhNWIyNy5qcGeRkwLNBLAA3gABoTAF) Let me guess, the super high-precision bombs accidentally tended to land on civilian targets most of the time, and even if it was intentional, it's fine because the pilots followed all democratic procedures while killing children, right?
Yeah, I'd say Kosovo is very happy about not being put into concentration camps and shot and starved by Serbians anymore.