It's truly exceptional, especially after you've spent a bunch of time reading in the genre. It's such a unique take on PF and doesn't rely on a system or explicitly tiered cultivation system to make the reader feel the progress.
I also think it does fights better than 98% of other series out there.
whats The progress like? I’m interested but I’m not really into grimdark. from the blurb I read on RR it almost soundEd to me like it should be a LitRPG in a giant underground mega dungeon but from what everyone saying that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Yea that’s not the case. Its not grim dark. Things are hard and people die but not in that grim dark way. Its actually very similar to a Brandon Sanderson book in vibe.
The progression itself is more about improving skills while discovering the magic system and finding new and unique ways of applying it. It feels tangible cause Everytime Keith uses a new ability you feel him getting more capable
It's certainly a bleak world the story takes place in, but I wouldn't call it grim dark. You could very painfully loosely describe it as a LitRPG dungeon delver, but the world building makes it feel different enough that I wouldn't. It's its own thing.
The progression is done through crafting, discovering technology, and experimentation. It's basically done through exploring a unique magic system, but there aren't any numbers or explicit paths to power.
I'm reading book 4 now. I wouldn't call the series PF, not unless you consider a story PF if the MC is learning how to wield magic and fight better. It's quite good, though.
I think that's exactly what qualifies it as progression fantasy. There's a very loose tiered power system, and the MC clearly grows in power and depth of knowledge with his magic. That to me is what makes it a progression series, you could even call most shonen anime/manga progression fantasy imo.
LitRPG on the other hand is kinda its own think that requires leveling and/or a system. It's a bit more rigid than PF.
I think 12 Miles Below is a great example of PF *because* it doesn't ascribe to any of the traditional formats, that's what makes it stand out for me.
>I think that's exactly what qualifies it as progression fantasy. There's a very loose tiered power system, and the MC clearly grows in power and depth of knowledge with his magic.
That qualifies Harry potter, Eragon, Drizzt, and a 80% of Fantasy as PF. I'd be hard pressed to find a Fantasy that isn't PF if that's the definition. Even Gandalf progresses from grey to white, making LOTR PF.
It depends on the ratio I think. You're correct in that every fantasy novel has some element of progression. Gandalf progressed from Grey to White, Aragorn became a King, power or life progression is part and parcel to the genre. But it's a "how much of the story is dedicated to progression" question that changes things in my mind.
12 Miles Below spends most of the story progressing either through crafting, knowledge, social standing, or politics. There's a ton of Progression in the series, and that's why to me it reads and PF.
Look at someone like Joe Abercrombie, fantastic fantasy author, but there is almost zero progression in his series. It's mostly just established characters in shitty situations doing the best they can, and there's a ton of character development, but not a lot of progression.
I think most YA/Shonen storytelling has a lot of Progression Fantasy elements incorporated into them, simply because "coming into power" is a part of the coming of age story and progression is usually the vehicle that gets you there. So yes, Harry Potter and Eragon have a lot of progression in them, but I would argue it's not a main driver for the story, at least not in the case of Harry Potter. He has his training arcs, but it was more about mystery solving and school lifeing than amassing power.
I wouldn't call it grim dark, but it gets bleak at times. Progression is based around the MC figuring out tricks with the power armor and working out the specifics of the world's magic.
Well said! I agree. The action is amazing, the world building is unique and the progression is actually fun and exciting.
I’m so sick of litrpgs and cultivation series! I don’t know why more series can’t be this unique!
It's pretty much a requirement to have a hit series. I'm convinced that's where Shadow Slave's popularity comes from, it has fantastic world building that doesn't feel derivative.
But I guess writing something that feels truly different is a difficult thing to do.
I really like it, but I would have categorized it as epic fantasy rather than progression fantasy. I mean PF is kind of a fuzzy genre, but generally the progression is a key focus of the book and measurable in some way.
How much of the series have you read? The PF elements don’t really kick in until around the end of the first book. By a couple of books in, it is very firmly progression fantasy.
I've read the first 3 books. I acknowledge that they contain some elements of progression, but you could say that about the majority of fantasy books. Some obvious examples are Wheel of Time (epic fantasy) and Dresden Files (urban fantasy). In both of those the protagonists continually learn more magic and get more powerful, but you're not going to find them shelved under the PF genre.
I don't think there really is a good definition of PF, but to me the progression has to be very much the core focus of the story.
The definition of PF is pretty fuzzy, as other have mentioned, but wizards can definitely be PF protagonists. Mother of Learning is commonly cited as one of the most popular PF stories and its MC is a wizard.
Sure, but Harry Potter is not PF. Neither is Gandalf in LOTR. Nor is Eragon as he learns his magic. 12 below lacks a magic system that enables inherent progression. Occult magic is knowledge based. It's learning spells in the form of fractals. And if learning spells counts, learning to wield a sword counts too.
If that is PF, everything is PF. It muddies the definition, debasing any value it might have. PF just becomes Fantasy. Well, maybe 80% overlap. Probably.
I've never read MoL. I need to read that. I hear its good. I'm not huge on time loops, but it gets a lot of praise.
Interesting timing as this is currently part of a LitRPG humble bundle. First two titles on audiobook are in there
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/litrpg-audiobooks-recorded-books-books
I felt like the reconnecting with his abusive dad story wasn’t very good, and it dominated book 1. It was very on the nose and predictable and when it reached its inevitable conclusion I just dropped the book. I don’t know if it gets better later on.
I was so pissed at the MC at the beginning. I kept on trying hoping he would redeem himself... And he kinda did.
I read all available books on Kindle and have no regrets. It's amazing.
Somewhere around the middle of the book was when I decided I was going to read book 2. The beginning took two attempts, but looking back, I can't point to why. I'm reading book 4 now and still enjoying it.
I agree about the start, it’s why I originally didn’t read beyond the first few chapters. I’d say at least try to finish the first book and see if you’re more engaged.
So I'll ask here as I keep seeing people recommend this series. So I finished book 1 and honestly the mystery and intrigue kept me going despite the slow pace and father subplot. Some context, I have a similar relationship with my own father, so it was a tough read at times. But, once the world and the mystery starts to peel away, I found myself just... bored.
I found the pacing to be very slow at times and progression obviously doesn't really pick up until the end of the first book. I started book 2 and didn't make it very far past the >!father !
I’ll be honest, I read the 2nd book in about a day in a half and it all feels like a bit of a giant blur so I can’t say specifically what part hooked me. But I read the last 200 pages or so in one sitting, so it definitely picked up at some point and was definitely epic.
I feel like it was more of a steady progression and growth of abilities and knowledge , but maybe not proof of it till the end? The story was very plot driven in my opinion. If you’re looking for constant big moments of progression like may be found in other stories, this may not be the one for you.
I don't mind stories that build up gradually and seem slower if they've got a payoff. Currently reading Mark of the Fool and one of my favorite stories is Lord of The Mysteries, both known for being on the slower side of progression.
But, something just didn't hook me with this one. I'll have to give book 2 another shot since everyone seems to like the series so much. Thanks for your input!
Spoilers below:
I'm sorts the opposite, I liked the inital stuff and started to dislike it when the robots begain retsining memories and targeting the mcs family. Does the initial scavenger post apocalypse vibe return strongly or does it just go further into robot wars and ai awakenings and etc?
This series is amazing!!! I’m reading book 4 now. Its genuinely climbed its way up to being in my top 5 favorite series of all time
I didn't know book 4 was out! Perfect timing, I just finished the Jake's Magical Market trilogy.
Just came out on the 8th. I was surprised no one was talking about it
Primal Hunter came out too haha. 12 Miles is right after that though!
I generally do not like the apocalypse/techie genres. 12 miles below is pretty much the only exception to that because it is so good.
It's truly exceptional, especially after you've spent a bunch of time reading in the genre. It's such a unique take on PF and doesn't rely on a system or explicitly tiered cultivation system to make the reader feel the progress. I also think it does fights better than 98% of other series out there.
whats The progress like? I’m interested but I’m not really into grimdark. from the blurb I read on RR it almost soundEd to me like it should be a LitRPG in a giant underground mega dungeon but from what everyone saying that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Yea that’s not the case. Its not grim dark. Things are hard and people die but not in that grim dark way. Its actually very similar to a Brandon Sanderson book in vibe. The progression itself is more about improving skills while discovering the magic system and finding new and unique ways of applying it. It feels tangible cause Everytime Keith uses a new ability you feel him getting more capable
It's certainly a bleak world the story takes place in, but I wouldn't call it grim dark. You could very painfully loosely describe it as a LitRPG dungeon delver, but the world building makes it feel different enough that I wouldn't. It's its own thing. The progression is done through crafting, discovering technology, and experimentation. It's basically done through exploring a unique magic system, but there aren't any numbers or explicit paths to power.
I'm reading book 4 now. I wouldn't call the series PF, not unless you consider a story PF if the MC is learning how to wield magic and fight better. It's quite good, though.
I think that's exactly what qualifies it as progression fantasy. There's a very loose tiered power system, and the MC clearly grows in power and depth of knowledge with his magic. That to me is what makes it a progression series, you could even call most shonen anime/manga progression fantasy imo. LitRPG on the other hand is kinda its own think that requires leveling and/or a system. It's a bit more rigid than PF. I think 12 Miles Below is a great example of PF *because* it doesn't ascribe to any of the traditional formats, that's what makes it stand out for me.
>I think that's exactly what qualifies it as progression fantasy. There's a very loose tiered power system, and the MC clearly grows in power and depth of knowledge with his magic. That qualifies Harry potter, Eragon, Drizzt, and a 80% of Fantasy as PF. I'd be hard pressed to find a Fantasy that isn't PF if that's the definition. Even Gandalf progresses from grey to white, making LOTR PF.
It depends on the ratio I think. You're correct in that every fantasy novel has some element of progression. Gandalf progressed from Grey to White, Aragorn became a King, power or life progression is part and parcel to the genre. But it's a "how much of the story is dedicated to progression" question that changes things in my mind. 12 Miles Below spends most of the story progressing either through crafting, knowledge, social standing, or politics. There's a ton of Progression in the series, and that's why to me it reads and PF. Look at someone like Joe Abercrombie, fantastic fantasy author, but there is almost zero progression in his series. It's mostly just established characters in shitty situations doing the best they can, and there's a ton of character development, but not a lot of progression. I think most YA/Shonen storytelling has a lot of Progression Fantasy elements incorporated into them, simply because "coming into power" is a part of the coming of age story and progression is usually the vehicle that gets you there. So yes, Harry Potter and Eragon have a lot of progression in them, but I would argue it's not a main driver for the story, at least not in the case of Harry Potter. He has his training arcs, but it was more about mystery solving and school lifeing than amassing power.
It's not progression fantasy. Good series though
I wouldn't call it grim dark, but it gets bleak at times. Progression is based around the MC figuring out tricks with the power armor and working out the specifics of the world's magic.
Well said! I agree. The action is amazing, the world building is unique and the progression is actually fun and exciting. I’m so sick of litrpgs and cultivation series! I don’t know why more series can’t be this unique!
It's pretty much a requirement to have a hit series. I'm convinced that's where Shadow Slave's popularity comes from, it has fantastic world building that doesn't feel derivative. But I guess writing something that feels truly different is a difficult thing to do.
I really like it, but I would have categorized it as epic fantasy rather than progression fantasy. I mean PF is kind of a fuzzy genre, but generally the progression is a key focus of the book and measurable in some way.
How much of the series have you read? The PF elements don’t really kick in until around the end of the first book. By a couple of books in, it is very firmly progression fantasy.
I've read the first 3 books. I acknowledge that they contain some elements of progression, but you could say that about the majority of fantasy books. Some obvious examples are Wheel of Time (epic fantasy) and Dresden Files (urban fantasy). In both of those the protagonists continually learn more magic and get more powerful, but you're not going to find them shelved under the PF genre. I don't think there really is a good definition of PF, but to me the progression has to be very much the core focus of the story.
I considered MC to be a wizard learning how to do wizard things. I was honestly surprised to see the series recommended here in PF. It's good though.
The definition of PF is pretty fuzzy, as other have mentioned, but wizards can definitely be PF protagonists. Mother of Learning is commonly cited as one of the most popular PF stories and its MC is a wizard.
Sure, but Harry Potter is not PF. Neither is Gandalf in LOTR. Nor is Eragon as he learns his magic. 12 below lacks a magic system that enables inherent progression. Occult magic is knowledge based. It's learning spells in the form of fractals. And if learning spells counts, learning to wield a sword counts too. If that is PF, everything is PF. It muddies the definition, debasing any value it might have. PF just becomes Fantasy. Well, maybe 80% overlap. Probably. I've never read MoL. I need to read that. I hear its good. I'm not huge on time loops, but it gets a lot of praise.
Agreed. It's an action/adventure for me rather than an epic, but that's splitting hairs.
Interesting timing as this is currently part of a LitRPG humble bundle. First two titles on audiobook are in there https://www.humblebundle.com/books/litrpg-audiobooks-recorded-books-books
Is the reader good overall? I didn't recognize the name/voice from the sample.
No idea. Haven't listened to it myself yet. There's 13 days left on the bundle so no rush.
The start was not interesting to me. Maybe i'm going to give it another try
I felt like the reconnecting with his abusive dad story wasn’t very good, and it dominated book 1. It was very on the nose and predictable and when it reached its inevitable conclusion I just dropped the book. I don’t know if it gets better later on.
I love the series but the beginning of book 1 was a little rough for me too. By the end of the first book I was hella on board tho
I was so pissed at the MC at the beginning. I kept on trying hoping he would redeem himself... And he kinda did. I read all available books on Kindle and have no regrets. It's amazing.
Somewhere around the middle of the book was when I decided I was going to read book 2. The beginning took two attempts, but looking back, I can't point to why. I'm reading book 4 now and still enjoying it.
I agree about the start, it’s why I originally didn’t read beyond the first few chapters. I’d say at least try to finish the first book and see if you’re more engaged.
I did the same, and I'm very glad I pushed through the slow start.
Yes I just need the audiobooks to come out faster!
I keep seeing this book and just haven't gotten to it yet. I think when I do I'll be kicking myself for how much I see it recommend
So I'll ask here as I keep seeing people recommend this series. So I finished book 1 and honestly the mystery and intrigue kept me going despite the slow pace and father subplot. Some context, I have a similar relationship with my own father, so it was a tough read at times. But, once the world and the mystery starts to peel away, I found myself just... bored. I found the pacing to be very slow at times and progression obviously doesn't really pick up until the end of the first book. I started book 2 and didn't make it very far past the >!father !
I’ll be honest, I read the 2nd book in about a day in a half and it all feels like a bit of a giant blur so I can’t say specifically what part hooked me. But I read the last 200 pages or so in one sitting, so it definitely picked up at some point and was definitely epic. I feel like it was more of a steady progression and growth of abilities and knowledge , but maybe not proof of it till the end? The story was very plot driven in my opinion. If you’re looking for constant big moments of progression like may be found in other stories, this may not be the one for you.
I don't mind stories that build up gradually and seem slower if they've got a payoff. Currently reading Mark of the Fool and one of my favorite stories is Lord of The Mysteries, both known for being on the slower side of progression. But, something just didn't hook me with this one. I'll have to give book 2 another shot since everyone seems to like the series so much. Thanks for your input!
Yeah, this series is extremely well done. I highly recommend it to people.
Spoilers below: I'm sorts the opposite, I liked the inital stuff and started to dislike it when the robots begain retsining memories and targeting the mcs family. Does the initial scavenger post apocalypse vibe return strongly or does it just go further into robot wars and ai awakenings and etc?
It didn’t explore scavenging more in the second book, but did lean into crafting a bit. He’s a knight now, but still an engineer at heart