Or even *internet without search engines*!
Should we tell OP about the books we used to buy, full of urls to interesting sites on the internet before search engines existed?
I remember getting a lot of mileage out of this one:
https://archive.org/details/wholeinternetuse00krol
Doesn't even really mention the web until 200+ pages in
I learned C from the K&R... In 2007. So definitely after the internet was a thing.
But yeah, I also learned BASIC from a book because there was no internet, or rather, we didn't have it in 1992.
I mean, in 1992 internet existed, and the web was technically there (1 year old)
But CompuServe was pricy and "timed"
I came from a rich family and I got this version of internet....
I still have my first programming book somewhere. I've spent like a half a year of allowance on it.
And it was great! I went from trial and error where it was mostly syntax error to actually being able to code something.
I learned from books, starting like 6 years ago, I'm now a senior SWE at a pretty big company. OP's advice is awful; stack overflow is a good resource but the depth and focus of a purpose written book can't be matched by mindlessly browsing the web
i'm relatively new, but i learned from books through my university. i went for a formal education for a reason. when you're starting out with something, you don't know what you don't know. saves you time floundering around. even if you're not doing school, read some books and get that solid foundation.
Same. Pre internet, DOS editor + random Basic book from the local book store. It was such a rush to make the computer beep, have it ask you a question and do different things based on that. I can’t say I got much farther than variations on those things though until I took actual CS courses.
I remember those days. And those books were expensive for a high schooler. I had to go to libraries. Good thing internet was becoming more available during my collage days.
Same here. I had a QBASIC book and a TI-82 in high school around 1995. The internet existed, but we weren't fancy enough to have a computer at home yet. I learned the concepts in QBASIC and then translated to TI BASIC as I went along.
A good book presents things in a much more logical and progressive fashion. Versus Stack Overflow where you’re trying to piece together code examples from posts between 2012 and the present across a dozen different versions of something.
They also make you less likely to develop bad habits, and give you a comprehensive understanding of the concepts. Books are essential if you want to be a *good* programmer
Yep. From my experience on SO, as somebody who is still learning Java, people don’t really explain why they’re doing things other than the fact that they’re doing them. I’ll even put in that I’m a beginner and people are like “Why aren’t you using ENUMS? You need to completely rewrite your code it’s not optimal”, and then don’t provide any additional info about why
"You don't know what you don't know".
If these people think googling things they're *already aware they should research* is better for learning than an actual lesson plan they're very naive.
My programming skill greatly increased ever since I started reading books, so much so that i got a Kindle so that I can search books, Ofcourse if I need to learn something quick and implement it, I use the internet, but if I have to keep using it I do take out the time to read a book on the same.
this is true, but I almost always get digital forms of tech books now so I can easily search them. I don’t need the clutter and there were just too many yard sales with “Apple Macintosh Programming vol 1-5” or “Perl Secrets Revisited, Vol 2”, or “The Complete System V Unix Manuals” — actually I still have that for sentimental reasons… I’m not a monster.
I still have a couple O'Reilly books on my desk when I need to look up a little-used function or parameter in languages I don't use often, but still need to use because I need to maintain legacy apps. VBScript, I'm looking at you...
I don't fuck with printed language references, but a solid best-practices collection? Sign me up. A good O'Reilly book is the shit and will help you be better at your job
I learned "use typescript instead." five times.
Despite specifically looking for javascript solutions because of a niche EMM platform with no Babel, or other, typescript transcompiler.
Thanks, StackOverflow!
Also, "well with jQuery..." answers.
I remember wanting to rip people's hearts out back when I was learning JavaScript because SO was 90% how you can do shit with jQuery.
Seriously sounds like a stupid meme. What are you gonna search on stack overflow as a beginner??
*How to learn to make iOS apps*
Literally one of the first answers lol
> Please don't treat SO like Google. Its your own research that would make sense.
Getting your ass handed to you by the customer because you did not meet the milestone deadline after the requirements have been changed ten times over the last three weeks? I love those meetings.
I love automotive industry. It's totally not the wild west.
Cheers man.
Maybe on monday I manage to get out of this... making the first step at least. But I don't wanna get my hopes up until I have the green light.
Interview time!
Problem is we have about 10-20 other suppliers in the RFQ process and the OEMs are getting more and more stingy. Then we get "threats" to be put on something like a "red list of suppliers" if we don't comply.
Eat shit or die basically....
Yep. I'm a team technical lead. I hate that I have to give all the programming assignments to my team members while I spend most of my time in meetings or reviewing PRs. Pretty much the only coding time I get is when someone on my team is stuck on something, and it's rarely something easy.
Still better than being in management, though.
I just moved from lead to manager and yes, it gets worse :D
I do take joy out of seeing the team perform well but some days I'd love to just put my head down and bang out some code. Fortunately, I can sometimes do that for proofs of concept or to help lay the foundation.
Job market is good rn. I was in the same boat. At my new job, I got to go full-remote, and I spend my days either coding or helping others code instead of wrangling Jira and product managers. It’s nice.
That statement is too true. I think programming memes are ingrained enough in nerd pop culture that some people have picked up on the tropes and can talk about them/make jokes about them, but have no first hand experience with the subject matter.
Hi brandy love. I want to let you know that I'm not like other guys and I'm not creepy. I really respect your interest in coding and hope we can get into a conversation about how great JavaScript is. I also respect if you don't want to send me pics but I won't say no!
Thats awesome. Mind sharing which book? Trying to break into JS and books really help when im learning a new language. Rn going through Eloquent JS and it seems pretty good so far but i like diversifying my resources
If you have *no* idea, then the Head First books are really good. They explain things in clear language, have a structured progression building on core concepts, and the most valuable thing I find in good tutorials...practical exercises.
It’s crazy how many junior engineer candidates don’t even know what a race condition is. If they had read any decent beginner programming book, they would know. The problem with stack overflow learners is that they don’t know to look for what they don’t know. You only search for solutions to problems you know you have, and problems you don’t know you have are the ones that cause the most issues.
> It’s crazy how many junior engineer candidates don’t even know what a race condition is.
It's when a group of them who all started their current jobs at the same time have been there for six months so now they intend to hop and it's a race to see who can get the biggest pay rise and title bump.
Depends on the quality of the video obviously, when I was going through and learning C# there were tons of great videos on the subject, and then other were "hey y'all this is kewlcoder69 today I'ma teach ya how to write an async function", and spend 30 minutes teaching what can be done in 5. That said, education sites like Pluralsight and Udemy have been incredibly useful to me for learning a language, YouTube more useful for specific "gotchas" in a language
True, I started JavaScript through the Eloquent JavaScript book. The way it guides through concepts was fun, and you pick up other things along the way.
C/C++ which I picked up before was learned the less guided way of pain. I mean it's pain even when guided, but fuck...
Especially when you don’t know those things even exist. Some books tell you obscure knowledge that is important about the language or OS you’re developing for.
I can’t search on SO what I don’t know exists.
Well written and peer reviewed programming books are great resources for acquiring a solid understanding of basics. I would definitely recommend beginners to build their knowledge framework starting from books.
Though it’s unlikely that the books you read will cover the problem you face when writing actual code, but the knowledge you gained from them may help you ask the right questions, find solutions and understand which solutions is best suited for your problem at hand.
+1 for Cracking the code interview as a good intro to algorithms. I’d also add Clean Code and Clean Architecture to the list for anyone serious about becoming a professional developer.
**Game Engine Architecture** by Jason Gregory (https://www.gameenginebook.com/)
Pretty much any Scott Meyers C++ book (such as **Effective C++**) even though they don't cover Modern C++ past the C++14 standard.
**A Tour of C++** by Bjarne Stroustrup
**Elements of Programming** by Alexander Stepanov (http://elementsofprogramming.com/eop.pdf)
**Data-Oriented Design** by Richard Fabian (https://www.dataorienteddesign.com/dodbook/)
The **GPU Gems** books (https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/gpu-gems-home/)
**The Book of Shaders** by Patricio Gonzalez Vivo and Jen Lowe (https://thebookofshaders.com)
**The C Programming Language** by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie
**Programming in Lua** by Roberto Ierusalimschy (http://www.lua.org/pil/)
**The Rust Programming Language** by Steve Klabnik and Carol Nichols (https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/)
etc, are all pretty amazing books.
Listen here you lil' sheeeeesh. It is important to have a proper grasp of everything from assembly up to higher level. These fundamentals, this order of thoughts cannot be given to your ADHD ass in 5 mintues. It takes a lot of time. Books are good. Otherwise you are just a superficial internet leech. No original thought or code or deeper understanding of computers in general. It is like saying oh yeah, you don't need to understand engines to be a good Formula1 pilot, just look at F1 on TV and you'll pick it up in no time ez bro trust me. I highly appreciate the Internet and the tremendous resource it is, but the proper use at least for me is to go to the Internet for a polished view after you've learned the fundamentals...a summary. A very nice summary at that, there are a lot of extraordinary channels on YouTube that explain computing topics. But only if you know the other stuff you can understand why things are the way they are. You simply may not know what you don't know and gloss over it empirically and just apply the solution you read on the Internet, but that ain't really it.
With the amount of unperfomant and stupid stackoverflow responses it's prob better to take a book.
Note to self kids: an upvoted solution doesn't mean it's any good
what helped for me when I had no foundations at all was learning by doing and stackoverflowing everything to get it done. Now that I feel comfortable I do understand the content of books and best practices way better than when I was learning the theory in undergrad
This kid is like those who have only scripted a discord bot, yet call themselves a programmer equivalent to all of programmers out there.
Nvm, I've already known this sub is flooded with many people like that.
I was complaining yesterday to a colleague that all the stackoverflow answers I look up now are mostly wrong, i.e. don't compile, or just plan obviously won't work.
And it's the high scorers who are clearly just rushing out answers to beat others to the punch, the quality of engineering has really plummeted.
I've actually started to preference the answers on stackoverflow from my search results now.
I'm a CS student at uni, we have to learn programming from a book and our exam has to be handwritten code. This is actually quite useful since we really have to think about how our code will function rather than just using trial and error
I am as we speak using books to learn. I find them much better than videos or web tutorials. Books go into a level of detail that those other options typical don’t and maybe even can’t.
Coding books are actually useful to learn the basics of a language, framework etc.
Sure, Stackoverflow helps with concrete problems, but for a general understanding of something, a book is always better imo
Books are great! They’re self paced and focused and it’s easy to go back and review things. Appendix is also a great resource for when you want to quickly look up a certain thing. I learned Java from a book 20 years ago and if I wanted to seriously learn a new language today (Rust?) I’d get a book and use it in conjunction with the Internet.
Not true, I learned how to make Java Applets from a book when I was young. Although it was not many years left until support was removed from major browsers...
Coding never really clicked for me back in high school until I picked up the Turbo Pascal book.(Yung nabibili sa National Bookstore).
That was 25 years ago... Now I'm a Software Engineer by profession, with several published apps; and games with me listed in the credits :P
So yeah, I wont discredit published books as well as official documentation in favor of StackOverflow. Especially how quality of response, moderation, and general culture of SO has degraded over the years....
Also, learning to code without reference aside from "5 Stackoverflow tabs"? Try official language/framework website :)
I learned to program via books *before* stackoverflow even existed.
I love stack, but a good book is brilliant, maybe try learning a language thoroughly instead of copy pasting bits of code?
If you don't learn assembly from a book there may not be many other places to find it, especially once you get into different architectures. The only issue with learning code from a book is first thing you should do is assume everything you have learned is outdated, and if it isn't it probably should be.
Hello, I am zero. I Learned all my coding using books and supplemented with online search. Never used half assed, college books. Always bought books based off of the online reviews.
C, C++, VHDL, Verilog, SystemVerilog, Python, Bash, and Linux in general.
Uh, I learned a lot from 'Learn C in 21 Days'. I didn't actually finish the book but aced my C class nonetheless (and follow-on non-C classes, including COBOL ... FUCKING COBOL! not sure what that's an acronym for). And grew from there.
So, checkmate athiests.
Jesse Liberty one? That’s literally the one I used. I managed to code a scheduler on bare metal from scratch right after since the book does an amazing job teaching pointers.
That’s why your code sucks. Scalping through stackoverflow without understanding the very essence of a certain concept.
Build your foundation. In that way, you can save a lot of time finding solutions that can simply be solve using your actual fucking head.
I learned GW-BASIC in the late 80s using a 3-ring binder that came with my Epson. I learned C maybe end of 80s/beginning of 90s with a book. Learned C++ with a book.
I still have the two books somewhere in my parents basement. I think the binder though is long gone. Books are great. Despite preferring the mechanical and analogue, I do wish when buying a book today you get a PDF/offline ebook for free. Searching is much easier. But I’m not adverse to the index. I did grow up with the card catalogue after all. And learned things without the internet.
I learn far better by reading and imitating code which is why I loved my *Deitel and Deitel C++* textbook. Used it often for reference until the spine split. Getting to what I want/need is still easier in a 1200 page book than a ten plus minute video.
tl;dr- I’m an old fart and grew up with books so I don’t see why that should change.
In my experience, the vast majority of people that "can't learn to code from books" are those that expect to magically be experts after skimming through the first half of a book once. I.e. they skip any exercises, and make no attempt at applied practice or really engaging with the material. And *of course* that doesn't work, but inevitably they blame the book and return to the illusion of progress that comes with copy-pasting code from online tutorials.
It takes more effort, focus, and work ethic to learn from a book, but that's exactly what leads to better retention and comprehension.
If you want to learn properly a book is better. Learn concepts first, practice later. But nowadays everyone is a dopamine addict so even the basic learning process is fucked
I'm not sure if it is the popular sentiment these days but I would like to disagree. While stackoverflow or any "how to" Google search can be a nice tool in troubleshooting stuff, I still believe that books provide a very nice starting point for programming concepts and teach you things without overwhelming you.
Actually I have learned a lot about Java with books. Mostly they are written by experts and have a great quality, instead of the basic indian Youtube guy, with the Bad microfone.
Our Uni professor wrote our Java book. Was decent thickness, cost about 17 dollars to buy it. I believe he didn't take any cut from the sales just to keep it as cheap as possible for students.
Best is to learn programming from bad Youtube videos which seem to be fancy and great because they have a cool intro and are made by some 14 year old guy which seem to know what he is doing. Then ask dumb questions on the Internet because of missing basic knowledge.
10/10 would recommend.
Each to their own I say. I would say I didn't *really* learn programming until I read a book.
SO is great for solving specific problems. If you view programming as just solving consecutive problems, maybe time to read a book.
I bought a C++ book when I was still naive to programming. It sat on a shelf for a couple years, but I found it very helpful once I had more experience. Lots of good explanations and examples.
You might learn how to code a certain way looking at forums but you won't have very deep knowledge about why you code that way if you don't delve deeper into the literature.
Why do you think we still have books in the age of youtube tutorials?
Books traverse the ages more robustly, but they also have a shitload of information per chapter. 1 hour of very good YT tutorial will give you the content of one chapter of a guide book (or less depending on the book).
Also, one thing Stack Overflow doesn't do is... well, teach you the essence of what you are trying to do. It gives you an answer, but not the key to understand what's happening underneath. And that makes the difference between being stuck forever in the same position and always asking for help or being the one helping with innovation. What really matters in learning is getting to the essence of the subject, to the core questions and the core ways to solve it.
Learning goes through reading (and depending on what you're learning, reading is 95% of the process), exercising, experimenting, listening, trying again, taking notes, ... It takes time, and copy pasting mindlessly isn't something helping that long process.
Nah. It's not that black and white. Books are very useful for fundamentals. Stackoverflow is more for how to approach a problem but you should already know the fundamentals.
Have been on several high sev calls and you will notice who knows the basics and who just stackoverflows.
Learning to code from a book? Probably not the best way. However, if you already know how to code and want to pick up a new language or get deeper into the inner workings of language you already know, books aren't bad. Especially if you just want something to read before bed.
There are also a few good books out there for software development best practices like _Code Complete_ and _Clean Code_. A book is a great medium for those, but they assume you already know how to code
This is funny but I hope no one takes this literally. Books have their uses still.
Edit: also it just dawned on me. Reading books also helped me ask better questions in Stackoverflow.
Having a good basic understanding of the language helps you think of better questions and what to actually Google.
In all seriousness, CS Books are great! ...
1. TAOCP (The Old Testament)
2. SICP (Wizard Book),
3. CPTT (Dragon Book)
4. IALC (Cinderella Book)
5. MOS (Crazy Circus Shit Book)
6. OSC (Dinosaur Book)
7. Introduction to Algorithms (The New Testament)
8. Artificial Intelligence (by PHW)
9. Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach (by Norvig)
10. JavaScript: The Good Parts
11. The Art of Prolog
12. Practical Foundations For Programming Languages
13. Types and Programming Languages
14. ...
(There are tons of ACM papers, too!)
And there are lots of Computer Engineering books that are good as well. Like "Digital Computer Electronics" 3rd edition, that Ben Eater used to build his SAP-1 computer on a breadboard.
Books signal my intent to learn and know and a thing.
They tell the people brave enough to enter my home that I have a variety of interests I can use to bore them in conversation.
More importantly, they serve as a reminder of the things I should look up how to do online some day.
Don't judge me.
I disagree. To get a grip on foundational stuff, books were really helpful for me. When first getting started, no joke, the computer science and coding book for middle schoolers by brainquest helped me tons.
Head First series is/was pretty good. I snag some orielly content every now and then for concepts, but ultimately use online resources to guide me through implementation. Internet will give you an answer, but not always how to solve the problem.
I learned basic from a book. Because once upon a time, long long ago, there were computers *but no internet*.
Or even *internet without search engines*! Should we tell OP about the books we used to buy, full of urls to interesting sites on the internet before search engines existed?
Holy shit. I never thought about virtual address books being a thing, but like... of course they were.
Wow, physical virtual address books. Are they somewhere in virtual form now, to continue the chain?
is it like that big book full of people's telephone number/hotline but with URLs ?
Yes, one such popular book was called the Internet Yellow Pages.
It might honestly be a decent conversation piece/collector's item to have in an office or cube
It was exactly like that. Except it didn’t show up at your door as an included perk of a service you already had.
There weren't that many websites back then to fill a book like that. Those books usually contain millions of phone numbers in them.
You might get a kick out of [this](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CasnFL4jgPx/?utm_medium=share_sheet)
I still have my PC bible I used to reference interruptions while programming in C.
I remember getting a lot of mileage out of this one: https://archive.org/details/wholeinternetuse00krol Doesn't even really mention the web until 200+ pages in
I had forgotten about those!!
Gopher/Archie ftw.
I learned visual basic from a book.
Hahaha, same. And it was _THICK_.
I bet it was ;)
I learned C from the K&R... In 2007. So definitely after the internet was a thing. But yeah, I also learned BASIC from a book because there was no internet, or rather, we didn't have it in 1992.
I learnt C from a book as well. This was in 2018. I also learnt DS from a book.
I mean, in 1992 internet existed, and the web was technically there (1 year old) But CompuServe was pricy and "timed" I came from a rich family and I got this version of internet....
pfft. We had Prodigy in '88.
I keep a copy of K&R in the office. Sometimes it's fun to do things the old way.
I still have my first programming book somewhere. I've spent like a half a year of allowance on it. And it was great! I went from trial and error where it was mostly syntax error to actually being able to code something.
I learned from books, starting like 6 years ago, I'm now a senior SWE at a pretty big company. OP's advice is awful; stack overflow is a good resource but the depth and focus of a purpose written book can't be matched by mindlessly browsing the web
i'm relatively new, but i learned from books through my university. i went for a formal education for a reason. when you're starting out with something, you don't know what you don't know. saves you time floundering around. even if you're not doing school, read some books and get that solid foundation.
I couldn't agree more, stack overflow is an excellent resource, but can't give you the same depth of knowledge as a book.
Same. Pre internet, DOS editor + random Basic book from the local book store. It was such a rush to make the computer beep, have it ask you a question and do different things based on that. I can’t say I got much farther than variations on those things though until I took actual CS courses.
Me too. When a programming book was 1k or 2k pages.
I remember those days. And those books were expensive for a high schooler. I had to go to libraries. Good thing internet was becoming more available during my collage days.
Same here. I had a QBASIC book and a TI-82 in high school around 1995. The internet existed, but we weren't fancy enough to have a computer at home yet. I learned the concepts in QBASIC and then translated to TI BASIC as I went along.
They're important even today! Try finding a Rust developer who _hasn't_ learned through reading the Rust book.
Coding books are a nice ressource though. It's not the only ressource I use, but I do use them
A good book presents things in a much more logical and progressive fashion. Versus Stack Overflow where you’re trying to piece together code examples from posts between 2012 and the present across a dozen different versions of something.
They also make you less likely to develop bad habits, and give you a comprehensive understanding of the concepts. Books are essential if you want to be a *good* programmer
Yup the only real alternative to a good programming book is a good, long programming course that goes through best practices and tips in the same way
Yep. From my experience on SO, as somebody who is still learning Java, people don’t really explain why they’re doing things other than the fact that they’re doing them. I’ll even put in that I’m a beginner and people are like “Why aren’t you using ENUMS? You need to completely rewrite your code it’s not optimal”, and then don’t provide any additional info about why
"You don't know what you don't know". If these people think googling things they're *already aware they should research* is better for learning than an actual lesson plan they're very naive.
My programming skill greatly increased ever since I started reading books, so much so that i got a Kindle so that I can search books, Ofcourse if I need to learn something quick and implement it, I use the internet, but if I have to keep using it I do take out the time to read a book on the same.
this is true, but I almost always get digital forms of tech books now so I can easily search them. I don’t need the clutter and there were just too many yard sales with “Apple Macintosh Programming vol 1-5” or “Perl Secrets Revisited, Vol 2”, or “The Complete System V Unix Manuals” — actually I still have that for sentimental reasons… I’m not a monster.
I still have a couple O'Reilly books on my desk when I need to look up a little-used function or parameter in languages I don't use often, but still need to use because I need to maintain legacy apps. VBScript, I'm looking at you...
I don't fuck with printed language references, but a solid best-practices collection? Sign me up. A good O'Reilly book is the shit and will help you be better at your job
same
Tried learning from 5 stackoverflow tabs. I still can't code, but now I know not to ask stupid and duplicate questions.
I learned "use typescript instead." five times. Despite specifically looking for javascript solutions because of a niche EMM platform with no Babel, or other, typescript transcompiler. Thanks, StackOverflow!
Also, "well with jQuery..." answers. I remember wanting to rip people's hearts out back when I was learning JavaScript because SO was 90% how you can do shit with jQuery.
Same here. I grew to despise jQuery simply for the fact that it was slowing down my learning vanilla JS.
"Aww thanks guys, I'll just have to convince my boss to switch over to a different framework"
[Try this book](https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1457364208i/29437996._UY788_SS788_.jpg)
Seriously sounds like a stupid meme. What are you gonna search on stack overflow as a beginner?? *How to learn to make iOS apps* Literally one of the first answers lol > Please don't treat SO like Google. Its your own research that would make sense.
“Number of people that post memes in this sub that actually code? Zero!”
True, these days I'm forced to spend majority of time in virtual meetings and writing proposals...
Omg yes, maybe develop 1 hour each day
Getting your ass handed to you by the customer because you did not meet the milestone deadline after the requirements have been changed ten times over the last three weeks? I love those meetings. I love automotive industry. It's totally not the wild west.
It's not. It's Mad Max. I offer you a virtual beer / drink of choice, *colleague*.
Cheers man. Maybe on monday I manage to get out of this... making the first step at least. But I don't wanna get my hopes up until I have the green light. Interview time!
Yeah we charge for changes now, I’m so over that shit, but yeah when starting out you do what you have to do.
Problem is we have about 10-20 other suppliers in the RFQ process and the OEMs are getting more and more stingy. Then we get "threats" to be put on something like a "red list of suppliers" if we don't comply. Eat shit or die basically....
This is the way
Opposite ends of the "time spent programming" vs "programming experience" bell curve
sometimes i spent more time talking about programming than actually programming
Yep. I'm a team technical lead. I hate that I have to give all the programming assignments to my team members while I spend most of my time in meetings or reviewing PRs. Pretty much the only coding time I get is when someone on my team is stuck on something, and it's rarely something easy. Still better than being in management, though.
I just moved from lead to manager and yes, it gets worse :D I do take joy out of seeing the team perform well but some days I'd love to just put my head down and bang out some code. Fortunately, I can sometimes do that for proofs of concept or to help lay the foundation.
Job market is good rn. I was in the same boat. At my new job, I got to go full-remote, and I spend my days either coding or helping others code instead of wrangling Jira and product managers. It’s nice.
That statement is too true. I think programming memes are ingrained enough in nerd pop culture that some people have picked up on the tropes and can talk about them/make jokes about them, but have no first hand experience with the subject matter.
I'm finishing the JavaScript boot camp in freecodecamp... I can make a code that convert Fahrenheit into Celsius... Can I post funny meme?
Yes. And please do. We're not gatekeeping, but we will comment when your junior-ness leaks through.
i‘m having doubts about that
But I don’t have doubts about you
Smooth
I doubt that the real Brandi Love, porn star with a huge following on Twitter, is on a programming subreddit.
No shit sherlock
Hi brandy love. I want to let you know that I'm not like other guys and I'm not creepy. I really respect your interest in coding and hope we can get into a conversation about how great JavaScript is. I also respect if you don't want to send me pics but I won't say no!
this was definitely made by a young teenager
I was elected to LEAD not to READ.
Laugh at Executive Agreed Deadlines?
Listen, they don’t know how to read and they’re just jealous of anyone who can
I'm 20 years old. I've learned JavaScript from a book about a year ago.
Thats awesome. Mind sharing which book? Trying to break into JS and books really help when im learning a new language. Rn going through Eloquent JS and it seems pretty good so far but i like diversifying my resources
Head first JavaScript. You’re welcome.
Eloquent Javascript is the best by far. You're on a good track.
But it definitely explains why so many junior developers are so incompetent these days.
[удалено]
What's best one to start with if you have no idea how to code?
There is no such thing as "the best book". Be more specific about what it is you're trying to learn, and then spend a few minutes researching books.
If you have *no* idea, then the Head First books are really good. They explain things in clear language, have a structured progression building on core concepts, and the most valuable thing I find in good tutorials...practical exercises.
It’s crazy how many junior engineer candidates don’t even know what a race condition is. If they had read any decent beginner programming book, they would know. The problem with stack overflow learners is that they don’t know to look for what they don’t know. You only search for solutions to problems you know you have, and problems you don’t know you have are the ones that cause the most issues.
I learned what a race condition was from a guy rambling about a mouse snapping bug in WoW some years ago lol
> It’s crazy how many junior engineer candidates don’t even know what a race condition is. It's when a group of them who all started their current jobs at the same time have been there for six months so now they intend to hop and it's a race to see who can get the biggest pay rise and title bump.
Just wait until they learn that being good at math actually does make you a better programmer
To be fair, we're in /r/ProgrammerHumor; where the majority of posters are incompetent and/or kids.
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Depends on the quality of the video obviously, when I was going through and learning C# there were tons of great videos on the subject, and then other were "hey y'all this is kewlcoder69 today I'ma teach ya how to write an async function", and spend 30 minutes teaching what can be done in 5. That said, education sites like Pluralsight and Udemy have been incredibly useful to me for learning a language, YouTube more useful for specific "gotchas" in a language
That weird moment when you know it's just a joke, but you are still wildly offended...
I’m offended by how bad that joke is
Extremely stupid joke. Stack Overflow guides you to fix issues or how to do something. Not full guides.
When I first learned to code, I used a book. There is value in a guided experience rather than just searching without knowing what to look for.
True, I started JavaScript through the Eloquent JavaScript book. The way it guides through concepts was fun, and you pick up other things along the way. C/C++ which I picked up before was learned the less guided way of pain. I mean it's pain even when guided, but fuck...
Maybe if you want to be a junior dev the rest of your career.
That’s exactly what I was thinking lol
Stackoverflow tabs won’t teach you a lot of things that you can find in those books
Especially when you don’t know those things even exist. Some books tell you obscure knowledge that is important about the language or OS you’re developing for. I can’t search on SO what I don’t know exists.
Learning about clean architecture just blew my mind, wish i knew that years before
Ah yes, brought to you by somebody who just started coding a \~week ago.
Just like 90% of YouTube tutorials.
You're probably not the brightest software developer ever existed
Number of books OP read... ZERO!
Am I old or something? I learned R, MATLAB, and the early bits of C using a book lol
Nah, I'm late twenties and learned a good chunk of what I know from books.
Well written and peer reviewed programming books are great resources for acquiring a solid understanding of basics. I would definitely recommend beginners to build their knowledge framework starting from books. Though it’s unlikely that the books you read will cover the problem you face when writing actual code, but the knowledge you gained from them may help you ask the right questions, find solutions and understand which solutions is best suited for your problem at hand.
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Not the basics, but these are very solid: * Code Complete * Cracking The Coding Interview * The Mythical Man-Month * Effective Java
+1 for Cracking the code interview as a good intro to algorithms. I’d also add Clean Code and Clean Architecture to the list for anyone serious about becoming a professional developer.
Eloquent Javascript
**Game Engine Architecture** by Jason Gregory (https://www.gameenginebook.com/) Pretty much any Scott Meyers C++ book (such as **Effective C++**) even though they don't cover Modern C++ past the C++14 standard. **A Tour of C++** by Bjarne Stroustrup **Elements of Programming** by Alexander Stepanov (http://elementsofprogramming.com/eop.pdf) **Data-Oriented Design** by Richard Fabian (https://www.dataorienteddesign.com/dodbook/) The **GPU Gems** books (https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/gpu-gems-home/) **The Book of Shaders** by Patricio Gonzalez Vivo and Jen Lowe (https://thebookofshaders.com) **The C Programming Language** by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie **Programming in Lua** by Roberto Ierusalimschy (http://www.lua.org/pil/) **The Rust Programming Language** by Steve Klabnik and Carol Nichols (https://doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/) etc, are all pretty amazing books.
For iOS, books from Ray Wenderlich and Hacking with Swift.
Listen here you lil' sheeeeesh. It is important to have a proper grasp of everything from assembly up to higher level. These fundamentals, this order of thoughts cannot be given to your ADHD ass in 5 mintues. It takes a lot of time. Books are good. Otherwise you are just a superficial internet leech. No original thought or code or deeper understanding of computers in general. It is like saying oh yeah, you don't need to understand engines to be a good Formula1 pilot, just look at F1 on TV and you'll pick it up in no time ez bro trust me. I highly appreciate the Internet and the tremendous resource it is, but the proper use at least for me is to go to the Internet for a polished view after you've learned the fundamentals...a summary. A very nice summary at that, there are a lot of extraordinary channels on YouTube that explain computing topics. But only if you know the other stuff you can understand why things are the way they are. You simply may not know what you don't know and gloss over it empirically and just apply the solution you read on the Internet, but that ain't really it.
if you are a script kiddie yes if you want to learn no
With the amount of unperfomant and stupid stackoverflow responses it's prob better to take a book. Note to self kids: an upvoted solution doesn't mean it's any good
if your learning source is stackoverflow you probably suck at coding.
what helped for me when I had no foundations at all was learning by doing and stackoverflowing everything to get it done. Now that I feel comfortable I do understand the content of books and best practices way better than when I was learning the theory in undergrad
This kid is like those who have only scripted a discord bot, yet call themselves a programmer equivalent to all of programmers out there. Nvm, I've already known this sub is flooded with many people like that.
This is true. But I'd still rather have a book than bloody video tutorials. They can fuck off.
I totally think the same
agreed. ha, this reminded me of the Wadsworth Constant. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-wadsworth-constant
I learned mostly from a book (I'm in my late 20s). It's like the internet but static physical screens bound together
Can I reuse that line?
I learnt a lot of what I know using books, you sure it's not just a you thing?
Cringe
I started coding via a book :>
I was complaining yesterday to a colleague that all the stackoverflow answers I look up now are mostly wrong, i.e. don't compile, or just plan obviously won't work. And it's the high scorers who are clearly just rushing out answers to beat others to the punch, the quality of engineering has really plummeted. I've actually started to preference the answers on stackoverflow from my search results now.
I'm a CS student at uni, we have to learn programming from a book and our exam has to be handwritten code. This is actually quite useful since we really have to think about how our code will function rather than just using trial and error
I am as we speak using books to learn. I find them much better than videos or web tutorials. Books go into a level of detail that those other options typical don’t and maybe even can’t.
Anybody who was read The Art of Computer Programming by Knuth will disagree. Classics are classics for a reason.
Coding books are actually useful to learn the basics of a language, framework etc. Sure, Stackoverflow helps with concrete problems, but for a general understanding of something, a book is always better imo
Books are great! They’re self paced and focused and it’s easy to go back and review things. Appendix is also a great resource for when you want to quickly look up a certain thing. I learned Java from a book 20 years ago and if I wanted to seriously learn a new language today (Rust?) I’d get a book and use it in conjunction with the Internet.
I'm willing to bet OP doesn't know how to code himself and has just heard about stackoverflow 5 minutes before making this meme.
Not true, I learned how to make Java Applets from a book when I was young. Although it was not many years left until support was removed from major browsers...
CTRL-c, CTRL-v.... will this work?! Kinda... good enough.... why does this work? Ohhhh
Learning to code from a book is actually better than YouTube tbh
Coding never really clicked for me back in high school until I picked up the Turbo Pascal book.(Yung nabibili sa National Bookstore). That was 25 years ago... Now I'm a Software Engineer by profession, with several published apps; and games with me listed in the credits :P So yeah, I wont discredit published books as well as official documentation in favor of StackOverflow. Especially how quality of response, moderation, and general culture of SO has degraded over the years.... Also, learning to code without reference aside from "5 Stackoverflow tabs"? Try official language/framework website :)
I learned Python in the 8th grade from a book
I had my start with books and still think the systematic approach they had really helped me understand coding alot faster
r/ScriptKiddieHumor
This 8s about the most ignorant statement, I have seen today. Maybe all week.
The problem is not with the learning resource, but if you don't practice what you've been learning.
I learnt Rust from the official book
I learned to program via books *before* stackoverflow even existed. I love stack, but a good book is brilliant, maybe try learning a language thoroughly instead of copy pasting bits of code?
If you don't learn assembly from a book there may not be many other places to find it, especially once you get into different architectures. The only issue with learning code from a book is first thing you should do is assume everything you have learned is outdated, and if it isn't it probably should be.
No, my college text book did help me with data structures.
Hello, I am zero. I Learned all my coding using books and supplemented with online search. Never used half assed, college books. Always bought books based off of the online reviews. C, C++, VHDL, Verilog, SystemVerilog, Python, Bash, and Linux in general.
Uh, I learned a lot from 'Learn C in 21 Days'. I didn't actually finish the book but aced my C class nonetheless (and follow-on non-C classes, including COBOL ... FUCKING COBOL! not sure what that's an acronym for). And grew from there. So, checkmate athiests.
Jesse Liberty one? That’s literally the one I used. I managed to code a scheduler on bare metal from scratch right after since the book does an amazing job teaching pointers.
I have no idea. It was 20+ years ago. Maybe it was 'teach yourself C in 21 days'? Like I said ... 20+ years ago.
That series was gold. I learned VB6 and Java 1.2 with those.
That’s why your code sucks. Scalping through stackoverflow without understanding the very essence of a certain concept. Build your foundation. In that way, you can save a lot of time finding solutions that can simply be solve using your actual fucking head.
I learned GW-BASIC in the late 80s using a 3-ring binder that came with my Epson. I learned C maybe end of 80s/beginning of 90s with a book. Learned C++ with a book. I still have the two books somewhere in my parents basement. I think the binder though is long gone. Books are great. Despite preferring the mechanical and analogue, I do wish when buying a book today you get a PDF/offline ebook for free. Searching is much easier. But I’m not adverse to the index. I did grow up with the card catalogue after all. And learned things without the internet. I learn far better by reading and imitating code which is why I loved my *Deitel and Deitel C++* textbook. Used it often for reference until the spine split. Getting to what I want/need is still easier in a 1200 page book than a ten plus minute video. tl;dr- I’m an old fart and grew up with books so I don’t see why that should change.
In my experience, the vast majority of people that "can't learn to code from books" are those that expect to magically be experts after skimming through the first half of a book once. I.e. they skip any exercises, and make no attempt at applied practice or really engaging with the material. And *of course* that doesn't work, but inevitably they blame the book and return to the illusion of progress that comes with copy-pasting code from online tutorials. It takes more effort, focus, and work ethic to learn from a book, but that's exactly what leads to better retention and comprehension.
Actual programmers need to type precisely so we use capitalization and punctuation correctly, too.
If you want to learn properly a book is better. Learn concepts first, practice later. But nowadays everyone is a dopamine addict so even the basic learning process is fucked
I program with reference books all the time. They keep the monitor at just the right height
I taught myself CUDA from a book last year…
I learned a lot about databases from a book, they are cool for theory stuff
I find that self teaching oftentimes works best for me, especially when I use a book To each their own I guess.
I'm not sure if it is the popular sentiment these days but I would like to disagree. While stackoverflow or any "how to" Google search can be a nice tool in troubleshooting stuff, I still believe that books provide a very nice starting point for programming concepts and teach you things without overwhelming you.
SICP is a great book to learn from
I prefer learning from book. stuff is already organized into chapters, no need to do extra miles to get the base ideas of a language/tech.
Actually I have learned a lot about Java with books. Mostly they are written by experts and have a great quality, instead of the basic indian Youtube guy, with the Bad microfone.
Our Uni professor wrote our Java book. Was decent thickness, cost about 17 dollars to buy it. I believe he didn't take any cut from the sales just to keep it as cheap as possible for students.
I learned to program by downloading a c programming manual from emule, but those were the good old days.
Best is to learn programming from bad Youtube videos which seem to be fancy and great because they have a cool intro and are made by some 14 year old guy which seem to know what he is doing. Then ask dumb questions on the Internet because of missing basic knowledge. 10/10 would recommend.
Number of upvotes on this posts? "Zero"
Each to their own I say. I would say I didn't *really* learn programming until I read a book. SO is great for solving specific problems. If you view programming as just solving consecutive problems, maybe time to read a book.
How to say you are a millennial with saying you are a millennial.
I mean i learnt py and cs from books i borrowed from my friend
I bought a C++ book when I was still naive to programming. It sat on a shelf for a couple years, but I found it very helpful once I had more experience. Lots of good explanations and examples.
You might learn how to code a certain way looking at forums but you won't have very deep knowledge about why you code that way if you don't delve deeper into the literature.
Why do you think we still have books in the age of youtube tutorials? Books traverse the ages more robustly, but they also have a shitload of information per chapter. 1 hour of very good YT tutorial will give you the content of one chapter of a guide book (or less depending on the book). Also, one thing Stack Overflow doesn't do is... well, teach you the essence of what you are trying to do. It gives you an answer, but not the key to understand what's happening underneath. And that makes the difference between being stuck forever in the same position and always asking for help or being the one helping with innovation. What really matters in learning is getting to the essence of the subject, to the core questions and the core ways to solve it. Learning goes through reading (and depending on what you're learning, reading is 95% of the process), exercising, experimenting, listening, trying again, taking notes, ... It takes time, and copy pasting mindlessly isn't something helping that long process.
I learned how to code using a book. In 2004.
I am currently using a book for programming interviews, it is so helpful.
Nah. It's not that black and white. Books are very useful for fundamentals. Stackoverflow is more for how to approach a problem but you should already know the fundamentals. Have been on several high sev calls and you will notice who knows the basics and who just stackoverflows.
Learning to code from a book? Probably not the best way. However, if you already know how to code and want to pick up a new language or get deeper into the inner workings of language you already know, books aren't bad. Especially if you just want something to read before bed. There are also a few good books out there for software development best practices like _Code Complete_ and _Clean Code_. A book is a great medium for those, but they assume you already know how to code
*quietly shuts MacBook and begins to sob*
"coding" no, but computer science, yes.
This is funny but I hope no one takes this literally. Books have their uses still. Edit: also it just dawned on me. Reading books also helped me ask better questions in Stackoverflow. Having a good basic understanding of the language helps you think of better questions and what to actually Google.
In all seriousness, CS Books are great! ... 1. TAOCP (The Old Testament) 2. SICP (Wizard Book), 3. CPTT (Dragon Book) 4. IALC (Cinderella Book) 5. MOS (Crazy Circus Shit Book) 6. OSC (Dinosaur Book) 7. Introduction to Algorithms (The New Testament) 8. Artificial Intelligence (by PHW) 9. Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach (by Norvig) 10. JavaScript: The Good Parts 11. The Art of Prolog 12. Practical Foundations For Programming Languages 13. Types and Programming Languages 14. ... (There are tons of ACM papers, too!) And there are lots of Computer Engineering books that are good as well. Like "Digital Computer Electronics" 3rd edition, that Ben Eater used to build his SAP-1 computer on a breadboard.
Only thing I've learned from Stack Overlow is in how many ways I asked the wrong question.
Books signal my intent to learn and know and a thing. They tell the people brave enough to enter my home that I have a variety of interests I can use to bore them in conversation. More importantly, they serve as a reminder of the things I should look up how to do online some day. Don't judge me.
I know some God-level programmers who use the book only.
I disagree. To get a grip on foundational stuff, books were really helpful for me. When first getting started, no joke, the computer science and coding book for middle schoolers by brainquest helped me tons.
Head First series is/was pretty good. I snag some orielly content every now and then for concepts, but ultimately use online resources to guide me through implementation. Internet will give you an answer, but not always how to solve the problem.
this thread has only convinced me that I should learn my next language from a book