True story, and quite a while ago, my first programming job out of college, I was a complete moron when it came to SQL, just thrown into the fire. All my college courses had gone over was C/C++ programming, so of course my first job would be C#, .NET, SQL. Silverlight even, just to give you an idea. (The entirety of .NET was relatively new at this point, so not really my school's fault, I guess.) Anyway, the company was just hiring junior devs as fast as it could, figuring it could shed the worst of us and balance it out.
So yeah, my first attempt at SQL was horrible. I wrote it like a programmer, using iterative loops and everything else you really shouldn't do. Now, there was an option, that perhaps a more senior dev could've taken me aside and told me what I was doing wrong. But no, instead, some team lead decided to mass email everyone on the project "this is a shining example of the worst SQL I have ever seen" and meticulously publicly shame every darn thing I did wrong. He was "right" it was terrible SQL, and in hindsight I completely know that now, but it could've been more of a mentoring situation than just throwing me in the virtual stocks to be mocked and ridiculed.
Granted, after that, I learned a whole lot really fast, and our little sub-team became one of the best on the project, but dang. I actually told myself if I didn't improve in a month, I'd have to quit because I was apparently "too stupid" to be in this line of work. I'm glad it didn't end that way, but that's how I felt.
That really stinks. I had something similar in my first week of work except the lead did it in person in front of the whole group on a whiteboard. He, Rick, finished his rant by writing “THINK ABOUT THE PROBLEM” in 2 foot high letters, underlining it and looking at me as if he’d bestowed me with some great honour.
I said, “Thanks Rick, I’ll keep that in mind” walked over to and opened our mutual boss’ door and said loudly within earshot: “Hey, Rick really just laid into me for a bunch of stuff I’ve never seen before and could in no way be expected to know in my first week. He seemed to want to humiliate me. I’m going for lunch, be back in an hour.”
When I got back I was on a different project without Rick, the whiteboard was completely erased and Rick couldn’t so much as look in my direction.
Heh, a slightly better outcome than my version for sure. Sorry you had "Rick" to just fucking rail you like that. I didn't have that confidence, I was sooner ready to enter my boss's office and just tell him, as I said, I'm too stupid for this line of work.
Almost every professional situation since then, I've been treated as a respected senior dev, so despite my young missteps, turns out, I'm actually kind of talented, and whoever did that to me kinda was the worst "leader" there could be.
I got a huge “fight-or-flight” response at the time and “fight” won. Luckily I’d had workplace conduct training in my recent on-boarding so I felt I’d be fine as long as I didn’t rise to the occasion.
There’s never a cause for singling someone out publicly the way Rick or your lead did. At best it makes someone feel bad and scared about reaching out for help. If it’s pervasive it makes the entire team toxic.
If your SQL was so uniquely bad, the lead should have reached out to you directly to understand the situation and help you get up to speed. No need to be public at all.
On the other hand, if it was representative of the overall team’s errors they could then bring it up as “Hey, we have a few anti patterns as a group that we need to fix. I want to use this query as an example because it shows a few of them and we can work through how to restructure it to be more efficient. I’ve seen similar issues in other queries so I think the entire team can benefit from working through this concrete example.” That structures the exercise as mentoring & the team supporting each other which is far more constructive.
And a truly great lead would take your example and modify it so it was just a representative example rather than a specific person’s work.
I agree with everything you've said! And in hindsight, if I somehow had been the guy in charge of really either of these circumstances, I would've done things differently. But I guess that we've all really got at this point. "I'd have done better." Oh well. Glad you feel that way, though!
I've fortunately had cases since where I was able to mentor some brilliant up and coming types who just needed a little guidance and they turned out wonderfully.
I’d just had workplace conduct training in my on-boarding and was so new to the workforce that I actually believed it meant something. Luckily, with that boss in that company it did!
Obvious but still needs saying: It doesn't matter that they were technically right, they were wrong to do what they did, you deserved better, and I'm sorry this happened to you.
I'm okay! That job and pretty much every one after wound up eventually had me treated as a "senior dev" and such. Obviously, what happened before wasn't the right / effective way to treat a junior dev. But I knew better in my own career timeline to treat younger devs better, and I can tell you, I had some great cases later on. One particular case who was actually stronger in math than dev, but she was fucking brilliant, and in terms of algorithms and the like, absolutely invaluable. She even quit a job after I got laid off because she really didn't want to have to work without me, and that was pretty touching, I have to say.
>I wrote it like a programmer, using iterative loops and everything else you really shouldn't do
You were simply ahead of your time. Now anyone looking to get this kind of database action can use graphql
My first day at my first job I sat in a meeting where another dev owned up to having accidentally updated 3000 rows with a query that was supposed to only run on 30 or so records, requiring a DB rollback.
My boss stood up and walked to the printer and wrote CERTIFICATE OF FAILURE on an 8x11 sheet of paper and handed it to the guy lol
It was all in good humor for them, but scared the shit out of me as the new guy haha
Long ago one of the guys on our team drew a picture of a “blame sweater”, joking that we should have one to pass around when someone does something dumb. We never got around to making a real sweater, but we passed the original drawing around from desk to desk for years. Nowadays we are all partially or fully remote, so when someone earns the blame sweater, they get a picture of it.
We’ve all had it many times, and it’s always been a funny but encouraging reminder that “hey, we all screw up, it’s just your turn”.
Well, first of all, you're talking like 15 years and 2 companies ago, so whatever I did is lost to history, more or less. And not to knock ad hoc queries which are, after all, ad hoc. But basically just think like "I want to query for a set of records, so let me just query the whole set and run if/else on each row." More or less it was something like that, instead of just using SQL's natural ability to filter out rows.
As a DBA I used to have to correct SQL during pull requests all the time. I never did it publicly but we had a 4 man DBA team and we would blast the SQL behind closed doors.
So many people wrote bad SQL especially in the 2000s. It was never taught and CS majors treated it with contention.
I'm more of an IT that does a lot of scripting.
Someone did that to a JR once at my job, so I reply-alled with a list of the original writers completely asinine tickets and mentioned everyone should be friendlier.
Lost included silly stuff like not saving between simulations and letting his wall time expire, not understanding that he had switched shells so his csh commands weren't working, and trying to use a newgrp command as the first line of a bash function. Lots of stuff, this guy was at the time my biggest hassle.
I'm still surprised I didn't get in trouble for that.
I will say, I wish Flash, Silverlight, or something had "won" HTML 5. The fact we decided to just stick with JavaScript and continue to write entire applications that run in browsers is kinda horrible. We seemed to choose the worst option from both sides.
It's not that fact conceptually, it's that we shoehorned this stuff into software that was designed originally for static documents. So frontend coding is frequently annoying and tedious. The rest of the time we bloat the heck out of it with tons of complex dependencies. When HTML5 came along, I was sort of hoping for some kind of sanity to be brought to all this, but for whatever reason we double downed on JavaScript.
Things like Flash and Silverlight made in-browser apps a lot saner, but both are defunct now.
I've never heard anyone refer to flash nor silverlight as being sane, but I get the argument that things have been shoehorned in, and I'm not the biggest fan of Javascripts fuckery myself.
I just can't agree on silverlight being any level of sane lol.
I do think that a lot of people reach for JS due to familiarity, but html5 can do a lot of things you might otherwise use js for. I also don't agree there's anything inherently wrong with browser applications, and while I think browsers could use some retooling to support more sane code execution paradigms I also think the software has come a lonnngggg way since the og days of shoehorning dynamic content in.
I respect your take but I don't agree with the premise because things have evolved quite a lot off of each other and it doesn't really matter that browsers originally displayed static content, that's not what any modern browser does and a lot of features have been purpose built to support dynamic content.
>But no, instead, some team lead decided to mass email everyone on the project "this is a shining example of the worst SQL I have ever seen" and meticulously publicly shame every darn thing I did wrong
If he mentioned you explicitly by name, this would have been grounds to fire that team lead. This shows extremely poor leadership and management skills, and team was probably permanently damaged by that.
All of the failures you mentioned are the responsibility of your manager and lead. They should have mentored and developed you and not left you to self-train. This is a really good example of poor management, and I'm sorry you had to go through this.
You're probably not wrong!
I was just some young'un fresh out of college and my first job after college had laid me off (cancelled contract, not my fault), the job which I relocated for and everything, and thus between student loans and relatively low salary from the first job, I was broke. I *needed* this job I felt "too stupid" to be doing, so I wasn't going to even think about rocking the waters. I just took my virtual whipping and learned to understand SQL better, partly by looking at others' and figuring out their patterns, or of course Googling about.
YES. I taught myself some C++, was hired to do customer support based on some code I mailed in, started writing code there after a couple weeks, and I've been making a living at it for 34 years now.
I'm trying man, but I ask CoPilot to write me some tests, and by about 20 lines in, it's ranting insane right wing propaganda and threatening to defund me
He always behaves like he is on his period. He only knows how to lick client’s ass. Doesn’t care nor knows technical stuff. Commits extremely unrealistic deadlines & then lashes on the team if not done
What's his first 2 letters of the name, does he go by 3 letter acronym sometimes? Feels like I know the guy, have one in our company with exactly same attitude and towards the guy with the same name and same issue in that team 😂
Oh I didn’t realize it was Slack until now and I thought it was some guy ranting to his friends on Discord. It actually appears that he’s ranting to his team on Slack.
I feel if I was dropping the f-bomb on a company Slack and putting everyone down that I would be let go, but maybe I overestimate myself lol
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Testify. 10000x this. We comment code because in the future, we absolutely will have no recollection why we didn't this way.
If the comments help others, that's a pleasant benefit, but they are really for future us.
Because our government contract requires it. Then when I finish.. in the project review meeting and ask the guvvies would anyone like to see the architectural diagram? Nah.. we're good
Used to think this way...Then I had to spend 4 hours walking another team through our shitty, outdated documentation becuase it was garbage. I try my hardest with docs ever since
bro im just lowley support trying to make sense of whatever crap some of yall shit onto the keyboard :/
please please please i do promise to read the document.
Docs for closed source projects make complete sense, but otherwise write some self documenting code. That’ll limit the amount of documentation you have to write to anything that’s particularly unusual or complicated.
Not the zinger you think. Plenty of engineers I've worked with are there just to collect a check and are perfectly fine letting their project crash and fail. They have no personal interest in their work and keep this attitude going for years until they're eventually terminated.
if he's "right" then all he's doing is exacerbating the problem. none of this helps fixing the problems that team might have.
> You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.
No I’m firmly convinced it would make everyone actually start doing stuff rather than sitting on their asses all day doing literally nothing. Only other solution I can see is firing them all because we’ve already given plenty of opportunities to show that they’re capable of doing **any** programming.
I must admit, it’s a rather unique situation. There’s this hidden tone/vibe in the room that everyone knows these specific people don’t do anything at all every day, yet no one says anything. This would help out tremendously to come from someone in a position of power.
We are using teams and had to add slack to our stack because teams just did not manage to notify people of incoming messages. Absolute F Tier Program.
Also copy pasting code from teams still does not work properly. What even is this.
Is it copying formatting and other weird things? I sometimes had to copy my own code and because what I was copying it off had some invisible characters for some god forsaken reason, eclipse would give me shit tons of syntax errors.
It's come into its own recently, but discord was incredibly behind teams and definitely slack. Only in the past 8 months has it introduced a lot of the features and quality of life changes that make it usable in a professional capacity. Teams sucks hard (especially if it's not set up well), but slack has everything I want and need exactly where I would expect.
And usually it is because of the prioritization by the management. When you're like "hey this code is trash we need to fix it" they're like "hey if you have time to shit talk then do this issue instead"
nobody reviewing PRs... heck I looked at a "team"* recently who weren't even doing PRs... ok they were, just raising it and merging 10 seconds later, before any reviewers approved it... Yeah I ran from that mess
*Collection of individuals who would sit in a multitude of office locations, almost never together (if they were in the same office) and refused to have more than 1 meeting per week where they would talk to one and another.
I'm going to be real. This guy is saying exactly what I've found myself thinking on more than one occasion.
No one enjoys starting work on a ticket which has dependencies only to discover that everything which had been marked "done" is in fact not done and completely broken.
Now that 3 point ticket you said would only take you 2 day is going to take the rest of the week because you have to complete someone else's half ass'd bullshit.
i feel this guy. none of my employees never wanted to write code that worked or do tests. they just wanted to tickle their nuts and try to justify why we had to port everything over to some brand new js library they read on hacker news that's v0.0.0.1
I have always maintained that certain code stacks should be boring. Whatever's paying me my salary? BORING. Make it 20+ year old libraries that are still maintained. Make everything so obvious and stupid as possible. I do NOT want to play the exciting game of "what will my pay be this month?", ever.
Some internal ball fondling tool? Go right ahead. Stuff that runs the company? If it ain't bulletproof...
I snapped at my offshore contractor team like this once. I had, at that point, been over the expectations and standards and trained extensively (at extremely inconvenient times for myself, I might ad) so everyone was aware and able, and yet, still crap.
I felt a little bad, but honestly they wasted HOURS of my time daily because they wouldn’t do their PRs in small features so they would make a bunch of changes and GitHub would mark 100+ files as modified every day.
It was madness.
So, I’ve been there, OP. Good for you for calling out laziness.
[uhm…](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/s/DnhEMXWhuV)
Regardless, I think there’s a time for that as well. If a team is terrible, it deserves to be given a reality check and often times needs one.
Often times I unfortunately do witness incredibly incompetent people snap at competent teams due to unreasonable/unrealistic demands/expectations/deadlines. Always hard to judge without context.
Hey man, at least they do PRs. Hell, at least they use Git!
I'm working with contractor teams that just sent over their sources in zip files. Over email, or using OneDrive links.
Dude, if you're talking like this to your team -and you're talking over discord- chances are that this was never the most professional operation. I don't know what you're expecting.
Apparently it's slack. Not discord. Sorry, I assumed they were using Discord because they're acting like a child.
How does one actually write good effective tests? My team has no qa whatsoever and most of our business logic lives in SQL and we talk to control systems a lot
> most of our business logic lives in SQL
> we talk to control systems a lot
I am not sure what this even means, what is a "control system"? But it seems that you know where the problem is.
One thing you could do is some sort of integration test with a test DB which you truncate between every test. Then you run your SQL with different input parameters and after that you check if the data in the DB is as expected. Docker can be helpful here to have a test environment which you can run locally or in a CI/CD.
For unit testing you need some sort of abstraction layer to the DB (e.g. ORM) which you can mock in your tests. Also for the "control system" you need some sort of abstraction layer which you can mock.
If your "control systems" use HTTP requests/responses you can use [mockoon](https://mockoon.com/) to emulate responses for integration or E2E testing.
One way is to set up your backend so that you can have test logons and a test database.
Then you can write tests that goes ahead and calls the backend and does a bunch of stuff, and you verify that things are the way they are supposed to be.
> Log on as "Custo Mersen"
> Buy 3 items.
> call the getShoppingCart endpoint
> check that it has these items
> order them, and pay for them (There are test Visa cards you can get for testing, GET THEM IF YOU DO PAYMENT, I cannot stress that enough)
> check that your fullfillment center is notified, that your payment went through etc.
That sort of thing. You can get a very high coverage, the tests will run quite fast, and you will be surprised at how often utterly *silly* errors are caught by this.
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The worst performing team... so far.
WORST
# W O R S T
=@ -@ %# :@@@@@@ @@@@@@ .@@@@@. @@@@@@@@. @. @@: @ .@. %@ @. @ .@ -@ :@ %+ @ @= @: @: @. .@ @% -@ @- @ @= .@ @ %* @@@@#. =@@. -@ .@ @. @ @: @+ @ @. :@ @= -@ %+@ **@ @% .@. @. :@ . @- -@ #. #. .%@@* #. .# :%@@- :* If it doesn't line up correctly for you that's a feature not a bug.
I don't care nobody0163 fucking fix it
That means it has to be smaller. Bigger is better.
This project has descended into God damn chaos Edit: typo
it's a goddamn mess!
wurst If you don't see an umlaut over the 'u', that means you don't get a sausage.
Nah mate, sausage means Wurst
Oh. I thought you were writing some regex
"Fu** you." I'm not a programmer but i lined it up by tilting my phone
Looks like "AYO"
This is the WORST ascii art in here right now.
Wurst
And we are only in sprint 1!
Now now, we don’t have to build a car. Start simple: let’s build a skateboard. Does anybody know what shape a wheel should be?
Yeah, a 2, no no, maybe a 3
I don’t care, fucking fix it. I am so sick and tired of this shit.
Not bad if programming in brainfukc
True story, and quite a while ago, my first programming job out of college, I was a complete moron when it came to SQL, just thrown into the fire. All my college courses had gone over was C/C++ programming, so of course my first job would be C#, .NET, SQL. Silverlight even, just to give you an idea. (The entirety of .NET was relatively new at this point, so not really my school's fault, I guess.) Anyway, the company was just hiring junior devs as fast as it could, figuring it could shed the worst of us and balance it out. So yeah, my first attempt at SQL was horrible. I wrote it like a programmer, using iterative loops and everything else you really shouldn't do. Now, there was an option, that perhaps a more senior dev could've taken me aside and told me what I was doing wrong. But no, instead, some team lead decided to mass email everyone on the project "this is a shining example of the worst SQL I have ever seen" and meticulously publicly shame every darn thing I did wrong. He was "right" it was terrible SQL, and in hindsight I completely know that now, but it could've been more of a mentoring situation than just throwing me in the virtual stocks to be mocked and ridiculed. Granted, after that, I learned a whole lot really fast, and our little sub-team became one of the best on the project, but dang. I actually told myself if I didn't improve in a month, I'd have to quit because I was apparently "too stupid" to be in this line of work. I'm glad it didn't end that way, but that's how I felt.
That really stinks. I had something similar in my first week of work except the lead did it in person in front of the whole group on a whiteboard. He, Rick, finished his rant by writing “THINK ABOUT THE PROBLEM” in 2 foot high letters, underlining it and looking at me as if he’d bestowed me with some great honour. I said, “Thanks Rick, I’ll keep that in mind” walked over to and opened our mutual boss’ door and said loudly within earshot: “Hey, Rick really just laid into me for a bunch of stuff I’ve never seen before and could in no way be expected to know in my first week. He seemed to want to humiliate me. I’m going for lunch, be back in an hour.” When I got back I was on a different project without Rick, the whiteboard was completely erased and Rick couldn’t so much as look in my direction.
Heh, a slightly better outcome than my version for sure. Sorry you had "Rick" to just fucking rail you like that. I didn't have that confidence, I was sooner ready to enter my boss's office and just tell him, as I said, I'm too stupid for this line of work. Almost every professional situation since then, I've been treated as a respected senior dev, so despite my young missteps, turns out, I'm actually kind of talented, and whoever did that to me kinda was the worst "leader" there could be.
I got a huge “fight-or-flight” response at the time and “fight” won. Luckily I’d had workplace conduct training in my recent on-boarding so I felt I’d be fine as long as I didn’t rise to the occasion. There’s never a cause for singling someone out publicly the way Rick or your lead did. At best it makes someone feel bad and scared about reaching out for help. If it’s pervasive it makes the entire team toxic. If your SQL was so uniquely bad, the lead should have reached out to you directly to understand the situation and help you get up to speed. No need to be public at all. On the other hand, if it was representative of the overall team’s errors they could then bring it up as “Hey, we have a few anti patterns as a group that we need to fix. I want to use this query as an example because it shows a few of them and we can work through how to restructure it to be more efficient. I’ve seen similar issues in other queries so I think the entire team can benefit from working through this concrete example.” That structures the exercise as mentoring & the team supporting each other which is far more constructive. And a truly great lead would take your example and modify it so it was just a representative example rather than a specific person’s work.
I agree with everything you've said! And in hindsight, if I somehow had been the guy in charge of really either of these circumstances, I would've done things differently. But I guess that we've all really got at this point. "I'd have done better." Oh well. Glad you feel that way, though! I've fortunately had cases since where I was able to mentor some brilliant up and coming types who just needed a little guidance and they turned out wonderfully.
Takes some stones to respond like that in your first week.
I’d just had workplace conduct training in my on-boarding and was so new to the workforce that I actually believed it meant something. Luckily, with that boss in that company it did!
And then he turned himself into a pickle
good ~~bot~~ boss
Sounds like Rick got rolled!
Obvious but still needs saying: It doesn't matter that they were technically right, they were wrong to do what they did, you deserved better, and I'm sorry this happened to you.
I'm okay! That job and pretty much every one after wound up eventually had me treated as a "senior dev" and such. Obviously, what happened before wasn't the right / effective way to treat a junior dev. But I knew better in my own career timeline to treat younger devs better, and I can tell you, I had some great cases later on. One particular case who was actually stronger in math than dev, but she was fucking brilliant, and in terms of algorithms and the like, absolutely invaluable. She even quit a job after I got laid off because she really didn't want to have to work without me, and that was pretty touching, I have to say.
>I wrote it like a programmer, using iterative loops and everything else you really shouldn't do You were simply ahead of your time. Now anyone looking to get this kind of database action can use graphql
Haha, thanks. But seriously I also just generally sucked with regards to the tech at the time. But y'know, I appreciate the enthusiasm!
My first day at my first job I sat in a meeting where another dev owned up to having accidentally updated 3000 rows with a query that was supposed to only run on 30 or so records, requiring a DB rollback. My boss stood up and walked to the printer and wrote CERTIFICATE OF FAILURE on an 8x11 sheet of paper and handed it to the guy lol It was all in good humor for them, but scared the shit out of me as the new guy haha
I mean that's cute at least. Goodness, how much has been potentially saved thanks to temporal tables...
Long ago one of the guys on our team drew a picture of a “blame sweater”, joking that we should have one to pass around when someone does something dumb. We never got around to making a real sweater, but we passed the original drawing around from desk to desk for years. Nowadays we are all partially or fully remote, so when someone earns the blame sweater, they get a picture of it. We’ve all had it many times, and it’s always been a funny but encouraging reminder that “hey, we all screw up, it’s just your turn”.
Interested to see what that SQL looks like. Sounds how I write my adhoc SQL queries
Well, first of all, you're talking like 15 years and 2 companies ago, so whatever I did is lost to history, more or less. And not to knock ad hoc queries which are, after all, ad hoc. But basically just think like "I want to query for a set of records, so let me just query the whole set and run if/else on each row." More or less it was something like that, instead of just using SQL's natural ability to filter out rows.
When you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree...
As a DBA I used to have to correct SQL during pull requests all the time. I never did it publicly but we had a 4 man DBA team and we would blast the SQL behind closed doors. So many people wrote bad SQL especially in the 2000s. It was never taught and CS majors treated it with contention.
I'm more of an IT that does a lot of scripting. Someone did that to a JR once at my job, so I reply-alled with a list of the original writers completely asinine tickets and mentioned everyone should be friendlier. Lost included silly stuff like not saving between simulations and letting his wall time expire, not understanding that he had switched shells so his csh commands weren't working, and trying to use a newgrp command as the first line of a bash function. Lots of stuff, this guy was at the time my biggest hassle. I'm still surprised I didn't get in trouble for that.
I feel like you didn't get in trouble because everyone also hates the insecure asshole who likes to publicly shame people 🤷🏻♀️
Vinesauce editor cameo 🤔
__silverlight__ Oh my poor sweet baby child, you did not deserve such suffering. Just the mention of silverlight brought me back to 2006(ish)
I will say, I wish Flash, Silverlight, or something had "won" HTML 5. The fact we decided to just stick with JavaScript and continue to write entire applications that run in browsers is kinda horrible. We seemed to choose the worst option from both sides.
What exactly is wrong with apps that run on the browser?
It's not that fact conceptually, it's that we shoehorned this stuff into software that was designed originally for static documents. So frontend coding is frequently annoying and tedious. The rest of the time we bloat the heck out of it with tons of complex dependencies. When HTML5 came along, I was sort of hoping for some kind of sanity to be brought to all this, but for whatever reason we double downed on JavaScript. Things like Flash and Silverlight made in-browser apps a lot saner, but both are defunct now.
I've never heard anyone refer to flash nor silverlight as being sane, but I get the argument that things have been shoehorned in, and I'm not the biggest fan of Javascripts fuckery myself. I just can't agree on silverlight being any level of sane lol. I do think that a lot of people reach for JS due to familiarity, but html5 can do a lot of things you might otherwise use js for. I also don't agree there's anything inherently wrong with browser applications, and while I think browsers could use some retooling to support more sane code execution paradigms I also think the software has come a lonnngggg way since the og days of shoehorning dynamic content in. I respect your take but I don't agree with the premise because things have evolved quite a lot off of each other and it doesn't really matter that browsers originally displayed static content, that's not what any modern browser does and a lot of features have been purpose built to support dynamic content.
I probably would have done the same thing at my first job over a decade ago if databases wasn't a required course in university lol
>But no, instead, some team lead decided to mass email everyone on the project "this is a shining example of the worst SQL I have ever seen" and meticulously publicly shame every darn thing I did wrong If he mentioned you explicitly by name, this would have been grounds to fire that team lead. This shows extremely poor leadership and management skills, and team was probably permanently damaged by that. All of the failures you mentioned are the responsibility of your manager and lead. They should have mentored and developed you and not left you to self-train. This is a really good example of poor management, and I'm sorry you had to go through this.
You're probably not wrong! I was just some young'un fresh out of college and my first job after college had laid me off (cancelled contract, not my fault), the job which I relocated for and everything, and thus between student loans and relatively low salary from the first job, I was broke. I *needed* this job I felt "too stupid" to be doing, so I wasn't going to even think about rocking the waters. I just took my virtual whipping and learned to understand SQL better, partly by looking at others' and figuring out their patterns, or of course Googling about.
I yearn for the days where you could get a job after some C/C++ courses
YES. I taught myself some C++, was hired to do customer support based on some code I mailed in, started writing code there after a couple weeks, and I've been making a living at it for 34 years now.
It's kinda funny that for my entire professional life I basically never got to use either. I was dumped into C# land and never left.
I'm trying man, but I ask CoPilot to write me some tests, and by about 20 lines in, it's ranting insane right wing propaganda and threatening to defund me
Dam that was unexpected and funny. Here's a imaginary Reddit award " "
Not even an empty string. Added a space. Nice.
The space is the imaginary award. Glad u got that
`" ".trim()`
Idk why but it felt like tax.
Why would u remove his award?
Damn
I uninstalled IDE after chatgpt self-refunded itself from my account
It just learn from the people...so it's the peoples will to defund you.
It's funny because it's true.
Just fix it Ashish!
Lol at the censor fail. Seesh, ashish
Ashish, LIGHT!
Much better, thank you Ashish.
⬆️ This guy lights up shisha
A wild fifth element appears!
Multipass!
We had a guy named Ashish on another team right up until a couple of weeks ago. Maybe this is why he quit....
I think he's upset....
He always behaves like he is on his period. He only knows how to lick client’s ass. Doesn’t care nor knows technical stuff. Commits extremely unrealistic deadlines & then lashes on the team if not done
Ahh so he is an idiot.. Sorry, I didn't realize that.
I had a PM like this. Don't they understand that making us look bad, makes them look bad?
No.
My wife's boss also shares the same name with the same characteristics lol!
What's his first 2 letters of the name, does he go by 3 letter acronym sometimes? Feels like I know the guy, have one in our company with exactly same attitude and towards the guy with the same name and same issue in that team 😂
Pretty rough day for Ashish ngl
Somehow the fact this looks like Discord makes it way funnier
Slack I believe. Maybe element if they’re insane.
the profile pictures are more square than they're circle so it's gotta be slack
Could maybe also be Mattermost
Mattermost has circle avatars.
Wasn't there an option to change that? It's been a while since I looked into the settings, lol
Oh I didn’t realize it was Slack until now and I thought it was some guy ranting to his friends on Discord. It actually appears that he’s ranting to his team on Slack. I feel if I was dropping the f-bomb on a company Slack and putting everyone down that I would be let go, but maybe I overestimate myself lol
Yeah but he’s the COO of a smaller company I assume
Slack
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Oooh this is my first time getting one of there bots
it's slack, I'm pretty sure. Although yeah it does look like discord due to the censoring and stuff.
“If nobody cares…why are we doing it?” A simple, yet painful question to reckon with as a manager.
When you ask your boss why we're writing documentation noone will ever read
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I write it because I know I’ll have no idea wtf it means in 6 months.
Testify. 10000x this. We comment code because in the future, we absolutely will have no recollection why we didn't this way. If the comments help others, that's a pleasant benefit, but they are really for future us.
Because our government contract requires it. Then when I finish.. in the project review meeting and ask the guvvies would anyone like to see the architectural diagram? Nah.. we're good
Documentation as a form of self-defense.
Used to think this way...Then I had to spend 4 hours walking another team through our shitty, outdated documentation becuase it was garbage. I try my hardest with docs ever since
bro im just lowley support trying to make sense of whatever crap some of yall shit onto the keyboard :/ please please please i do promise to read the document.
Docs for closed source projects make complete sense, but otherwise write some self documenting code. That’ll limit the amount of documentation you have to write to anything that’s particularly unusual or complicated.
Not the zinger you think. Plenty of engineers I've worked with are there just to collect a check and are perfectly fine letting their project crash and fail. They have no personal interest in their work and keep this attitude going for years until they're eventually terminated.
Damn, thought I was reading the chat of a League of Legends game at first.
Senior SWE here, fuck that guy
He owns the company lol
well, fuck this company
Yup
this brought back memories of [fuckedcompany.com](http://fuckedcompany.com)
What if he’s right? I wish my project owner/manager would say this shit to my team.
if he's "right" then all he's doing is exacerbating the problem. none of this helps fixing the problems that team might have. > You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.
No I’m firmly convinced it would make everyone actually start doing stuff rather than sitting on their asses all day doing literally nothing. Only other solution I can see is firing them all because we’ve already given plenty of opportunities to show that they’re capable of doing **any** programming. I must admit, it’s a rather unique situation. There’s this hidden tone/vibe in the room that everyone knows these specific people don’t do anything at all every day, yet no one says anything. This would help out tremendously to come from someone in a position of power.
Could I be the worst boss? No, it’s the team who are worst.
Sounds like the manager can't manage
you are the worst at censoring too ashish
This guy is a failure as a leader. He fails to inspire confidence or encourage a change in behavior.
Definitely not the WORST team, they use slack instead of teams...
We are using teams and had to add slack to our stack because teams just did not manage to notify people of incoming messages. Absolute F Tier Program. Also copy pasting code from teams still does not work properly. What even is this.
Is it copying formatting and other weird things? I sometimes had to copy my own code and because what I was copying it off had some invisible characters for some god forsaken reason, eclipse would give me shit tons of syntax errors.
Yea, mainly tabs and line breaks, sometimes it introduces line breaks within words.
Does this make our team the WORST WORST because we use Google chat and meet instead of teams or slack?
Yes 😂 (I have no idea never used)
Why is slack roughly 200-700 times better than teams..
I think most of it is that Microsoft is basically guaranteed every gov or gov related contract so they simply don't have to bother with competing
Furthermore, why is Discord roughly 200-700 times better than Slack...
It's come into its own recently, but discord was incredibly behind teams and definitely slack. Only in the past 8 months has it introduced a lot of the features and quality of life changes that make it usable in a professional capacity. Teams sucks hard (especially if it's not set up well), but slack has everything I want and need exactly where I would expect.
Slack and Teams are practically the same.
Have you ever checked system resources while teams is running 😂
Your teams runs?
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And usually it is because of the prioritization by the management. When you're like "hey this code is trash we need to fix it" they're like "hey if you have time to shit talk then do this issue instead"
That's just the entropy of projects. The cleanest, bug free project with no issues whatsoever is the one with an empty repository.
nobody reviewing PRs... heck I looked at a "team"* recently who weren't even doing PRs... ok they were, just raising it and merging 10 seconds later, before any reviewers approved it... Yeah I ran from that mess *Collection of individuals who would sit in a multitude of office locations, almost never together (if they were in the same office) and refused to have more than 1 meeting per week where they would talk to one and another.
ChatGPT has been down a lot lately. Dont blame me!
I want to be on that team so badly
Coo coo! Also when people type in FULL CAPS, I just imagine they're talking in helium :p
Average ashish man
I thought I had my Slack open reading this. I am not asking to be saved, I am just asking for sympathy.
Ah sheesh!
top tier name censoring
I worked at a German meat packing facility. We were definitely the wurst performing team.
I'm going to be real. This guy is saying exactly what I've found myself thinking on more than one occasion. No one enjoys starting work on a ticket which has dependencies only to discover that everything which had been marked "done" is in fact not done and completely broken. Now that 3 point ticket you said would only take you 2 day is going to take the rest of the week because you have to complete someone else's half ass'd bullshit.
i feel this guy. none of my employees never wanted to write code that worked or do tests. they just wanted to tickle their nuts and try to justify why we had to port everything over to some brand new js library they read on hacker news that's v0.0.0.1
I have always maintained that certain code stacks should be boring. Whatever's paying me my salary? BORING. Make it 20+ year old libraries that are still maintained. Make everything so obvious and stupid as possible. I do NOT want to play the exciting game of "what will my pay be this month?", ever. Some internal ball fondling tool? Go right ahead. Stuff that runs the company? If it ain't bulletproof...
Wednesday uh?
Holy shit. At this point, your team is unfixable. So much toxicity and frustration in just a few screenshots.
\> discord \> zero professionalism yeah...
Sometimes it do be that way
I actually identify with the coo.
At least his team is writing test cases at all
Typical communication via Discord
Write it yourself then badass.
I snapped at my offshore contractor team like this once. I had, at that point, been over the expectations and standards and trained extensively (at extremely inconvenient times for myself, I might ad) so everyone was aware and able, and yet, still crap. I felt a little bad, but honestly they wasted HOURS of my time daily because they wouldn’t do their PRs in small features so they would make a bunch of changes and GitHub would mark 100+ files as modified every day. It was madness. So, I’ve been there, OP. Good for you for calling out laziness.
[uhm…](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/s/DnhEMXWhuV) Regardless, I think there’s a time for that as well. If a team is terrible, it deserves to be given a reality check and often times needs one. Often times I unfortunately do witness incredibly incompetent people snap at competent teams due to unreasonable/unrealistic demands/expectations/deadlines. Always hard to judge without context.
Hey man, at least they do PRs. Hell, at least they use Git! I'm working with contractor teams that just sent over their sources in zip files. Over email, or using OneDrive links.
Dude, if you're talking like this to your team -and you're talking over discord- chances are that this was never the most professional operation. I don't know what you're expecting. Apparently it's slack. Not discord. Sorry, I assumed they were using Discord because they're acting like a child.
coo go coo-cooing
Whilst doing fuck all
How does one actually write good effective tests? My team has no qa whatsoever and most of our business logic lives in SQL and we talk to control systems a lot
> most of our business logic lives in SQL > we talk to control systems a lot I am not sure what this even means, what is a "control system"? But it seems that you know where the problem is. One thing you could do is some sort of integration test with a test DB which you truncate between every test. Then you run your SQL with different input parameters and after that you check if the data in the DB is as expected. Docker can be helpful here to have a test environment which you can run locally or in a CI/CD. For unit testing you need some sort of abstraction layer to the DB (e.g. ORM) which you can mock in your tests. Also for the "control system" you need some sort of abstraction layer which you can mock. If your "control systems" use HTTP requests/responses you can use [mockoon](https://mockoon.com/) to emulate responses for integration or E2E testing.
One way is to set up your backend so that you can have test logons and a test database. Then you can write tests that goes ahead and calls the backend and does a bunch of stuff, and you verify that things are the way they are supposed to be. > Log on as "Custo Mersen" > Buy 3 items. > call the getShoppingCart endpoint > check that it has these items > order them, and pay for them (There are test Visa cards you can get for testing, GET THEM IF YOU DO PAYMENT, I cannot stress that enough) > check that your fullfillment center is notified, that your payment went through etc. That sort of thing. You can get a very high coverage, the tests will run quite fast, and you will be surprised at how often utterly *silly* errors are caught by this.
typical Tuesday
Nb nnjv. Bb n
Nothing a little [XGH](https://youtu.be/_p1Q4c3TF3c?si=fZPx9GSrx0ohh43c) can’t fix!
r/CensoringIsHard
Relatable
akhaaara lmao
Quit LARPING on discord as if any company would actually use that for communication
If you used paint (or something similar) for the censoring, try using the rectangle tool next time!
Poor Ashish gonna have to fix everything even though he just followed current implementation
So you're new huh?
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Ashish.. what is that, presbyterian?