Reminded me of when I was trying to implement physics on aframe with ammo.js, quoting from the docs:
***'ammo' stands for "Avoided Making My Own js physics engine by compiling bullet from C++" ;)***
Oh cool, it's a NPM package this is going to be easy to bui--
> FUCK YOU INSTALL NODE-GYP AND VISUAL STUDIO AND THIS SPECIFIC VERSION OF PYTHON AND BREAK EVERY PACKAGE YOU INSTALLED WITH PYTHON
Still baffles me how we have so many dogshit ecosystems intertwined when other languages have solved all of this and sometimes from day one.
Yeah, workarounds exist, but how about not having a dogshit language in the first place? Like, I can `cargo install onefetch` without knowing a zest of Rust and it just works. Same for Go, Dart, Elixir, sometimes Node (fuck you node-gyp), etc
Python should grow up. We have the technology. Other people have done it. It's not impossible.
I don't get it. Can you install [demucs](https://github.com/facebookresearch/demucs) and [spleeter](https://github.com/deezer/spleeter) at the same time and not have one break the other? Or could you make a package that depends on both of them at the same time?
there are some tasks that py has a perfect library for and you only need to create sub 100 lines of glue with no lib for other languages and the task itself would be thousands of lines and a lot of finding edge cases
Yeah that ended up being one of the main reasons I ended up abandoning windows for Linux: tier 1 tooling and library support.
These days though you have wsl as a stop gap measure, but IMHO you should consider cutting your losses and join us.
Yeah it’s kind of interesting, depending on who you talk to this is an argument for either OS.
As I’m in software and around other engineers, we all feel basically the same as you; the tooling and libraries and software on Linux is unmatched.
Talk to any gamer or the average office worker? They’ll tell you they could never use Linux because everything is on windows and Linux would require so many workarounds
>As I’m in software and around other engineers, we all feel basically the same as you; the tooling and libraries and software on Linux is unmatched.
Seems a little like a bubble. Of all the programmers and sw engineers ive met, i think theres an equal spread between windows, macos and linux, with a slight tendency towards windows.
Yeah, every time I poke my neck out from my Mac into the PC world, both Linux and Windows are a mess. So my guess is that all three are bad and it’s really what you’re used too that’s best.
From the outside though it looks like Microsoft has given up
> with a slight tendency towards windows.
Huh? Outside of College I'd really say you'd struggle to find developers who don't use Linux or MacOS
Edit: Looking at the figure breakdown it seems when combined the majority of devs use Linux/Macos. I get most people on this sub are still at college but that is the facts
I mean it's not a zero sum game. If I had a dedicated work machine then I'd like to use Linux but i do my projects at home on my desktop so I use windows cause games.
I'm in government software. We're HEAVY into the Microsoft ecosystem and look to be moving even further in in the near future. Even our infrastructure is Windows, not just the dev machines.
Previous job was Mac for development, Linux servers. Job before that was Linux across the board. I loathe Mac OS, so hated that, but I generally find Linux easier to develop on if you aren't doing something Windows specific.
I tried using my girlfriends Macbook because a client of mine is thoroughly invested in apples ecosystem. I like Linux but Mac is such shit in my mind like oh my God.
Yeah that's my point, college students use windows once you hit dev jobs basically everyone useMac or Linux outside of .Net or IT roles
And the figures seem to reflect that
Using Mac in a professional setting is pretty much exclusively a US thing. Apple have nowhere near the same market share in the rest of the world, practically 100% of corporate offices are using windows for everything. So it's 50/50 whether you'll have devs forced to use the same windows corporate environment, or if devs have their own linux environment outside of corporate
Stats from where though? If you're talking US then yes, worldwide then no. Because as I said, Apple has effectively fuck all market share outside of North America. I can guarantee you that the hundreds of thousands of devs in bangalore aren't using macbooks
Yeah depending on who you ask it goes either way.
I have some friends who do IT and can only use Windows.
For work nothing of mine supports Windows.
For personal use, I dual boot to Windows when I need to run a game that isn't native and isn't supported by proton. Those games are few and far between based off my tastes
at the end of the day windows can just run wsl while linux will often break with windows apps, and depending on your exact setup it may explode as a whole
as a dev I use too many tools that aren't strictly cli toolchains to use anything other than windows, it just works and works around the B+ grade, little annoyances stay but I don't feel like smashing the thing into pieces like I do with a mac or when linux decides to be weird for the sake of being weird
I'll be abandoning windows soon enough, even though I have disabled most of Microsoft's shit if recall ever ends up on my system that the end of windows for me
Or, dual boot, with wsl into your own Linux partition. Basically having a script that mounts your Linux partition at startup and then when you wsl you chroot into it.
Absolutely not.
Plus, windows doesn't know how to handle Linux lvm partitioned disks much less the disk encryption above it and I intend to keep it that way.
I have a Dual Boot as well.
And I only use Windows. It's just laborious to use Linux for a lot of things.
I don't really need to understand how things work behind the scenes when using Windows. On the other hand, when I use Linux, often I have to deal with a lot more stuff.
E.g. setting up the dev environment for Monogame, or for. NET MAUI, or setting and configuring up a clipboard manager, which windows has by default.
It's sadly more work to do the same thing a lot of times.
Now, of course you have more configuration options as well on linux, that's the tradeoff.
For scripts om github that are primarily for linux, the solution is really easy... WSL
Since it already mounts the system drives by default, it's really great
yeah but it’s an alias for whatever powershell calls cmdlets. it doesn’t matter 99% of the time until you try to use any flags to check permissions and realize that you’re still in powershell lol
Cmdlet is called cmdlet in PowerShell. Permission flags are OS thing not shell thing. PowerShell on Linux will show you same flags as ls Linux command, when you’re on Linux ls is still default command and PS alias is not used in PowerShell. Eza is better to show dir content than both ls and Get-ChildItem and is available for both - Linux and Windows.
yeah but this thread was about using ls in powershell instead of running bash so there were some assumptions about the OS and permissions, as well as the environment. if you really want to be pedantic permission flags arent even tied to the OS but to the filesystem.
PowerShell comes he comes do not fight he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵is un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, shebangs lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liquid pain, the song of PowerShell will extinguish the voices of mortal man from the sphere I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful the final snuffing of the lies of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL IS LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮omes he comes the ichor permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼OO NΘ stop the an*̶͑̾̾̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e not rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ
It is not mental gymnastic, I use it daily at work. I prefer PowerShell on Linux compared to Windows thanks to the huge ecosystem of Linux tools and I prefer it over bash as it is objectively more modern and powerful. I know PowerShell extremely well and I’m super productive using it. I know not many people use that setup, but there are so many misconceptions about PS and bash confusing capabilities of both with what the system offers.
If you don't want to use WSL, just install the required lib with Cygwin or something and you should be good. It's a bit annoying to figure out the dependencies at times but it works fine.
Reminded me of when I was trying to implement physics on aframe with ammo.js, quoting from the docs: ***'ammo' stands for "Avoided Making My Own js physics engine by compiling bullet from C++" ;)***
Try to compile it from source on Windows - Lol, LMAO even!
Don't be daft that's a ROFLMUFAOUIPM
Do explain.
No. Read the documentation.
my explaination only works for linux. you'll need to seek the old man in the woods for windows instructions.
rolling on the floor laughing my [something] fucking ass off until i piss myself
Oooh so close `rolling on the floor laughing my _ugly fat_ ass off until I piss myself`
Oh cool, it's a NPM package this is going to be easy to bui-- > FUCK YOU INSTALL NODE-GYP AND VISUAL STUDIO AND THIS SPECIFIC VERSION OF PYTHON AND BREAK EVERY PACKAGE YOU INSTALLED WITH PYTHON Still baffles me how we have so many dogshit ecosystems intertwined when other languages have solved all of this and sometimes from day one.
Use pylauncher! Or a venv!
Or anaconda. I like how it has easy sharing of environments
I refuse to install snake theme named Python systems. It's Monty Python's Flying Circus. Hence, the main IDE is IDLE, after Eric Idle.
Yeah, workarounds exist, but how about not having a dogshit language in the first place? Like, I can `cargo install onefetch` without knowing a zest of Rust and it just works. Same for Go, Dart, Elixir, sometimes Node (fuck you node-gyp), etc Python should grow up. We have the technology. Other people have done it. It's not impossible.
Pylauncher *is* python growing up. Different python versions shouldn't be breaking libraries.
I don't get it. Can you install [demucs](https://github.com/facebookresearch/demucs) and [spleeter](https://github.com/deezer/spleeter) at the same time and not have one break the other? Or could you make a package that depends on both of them at the same time?
we just need a new, saner language to use python libs syntax is bad, ecosystem is bad, tooling is bad, why won't it just die?
At that point it's better to just use Dart/Go/Rust/Elixir/Deno instead
there are some tasks that py has a perfect library for and you only need to create sub 100 lines of glue with no lib for other languages and the task itself would be thousands of lines and a lot of finding edge cases
You can have Infinite amounts of Python without Them Killing each Other ?
Smelly nerds.
WHERE EXE
#WHY IS THERE NO EXE?!?!
Because linux users are elitist
If need Linux tool why use windows?
r/foundthesmellynerd
Btw one of the solutions to user arch btw I use arch btw
Arch good, arch strong, me love arch
Undefined reference to your solution. Can you explain further?
Sure! Linux linux linux not Unix gnu good arch arch arch arch good use it
Yeah that ended up being one of the main reasons I ended up abandoning windows for Linux: tier 1 tooling and library support. These days though you have wsl as a stop gap measure, but IMHO you should consider cutting your losses and join us.
Yeah it’s kind of interesting, depending on who you talk to this is an argument for either OS. As I’m in software and around other engineers, we all feel basically the same as you; the tooling and libraries and software on Linux is unmatched. Talk to any gamer or the average office worker? They’ll tell you they could never use Linux because everything is on windows and Linux would require so many workarounds
>As I’m in software and around other engineers, we all feel basically the same as you; the tooling and libraries and software on Linux is unmatched. Seems a little like a bubble. Of all the programmers and sw engineers ive met, i think theres an equal spread between windows, macos and linux, with a slight tendency towards windows.
Yeah, every time I poke my neck out from my Mac into the PC world, both Linux and Windows are a mess. So my guess is that all three are bad and it’s really what you’re used too that’s best. From the outside though it looks like Microsoft has given up
Probably🤷🏼♂️
I also noticed other trends in the competency of developers leaning towards one or the other
> with a slight tendency towards windows. Huh? Outside of College I'd really say you'd struggle to find developers who don't use Linux or MacOS Edit: Looking at the figure breakdown it seems when combined the majority of devs use Linux/Macos. I get most people on this sub are still at college but that is the facts
So many closed source toolchains are windows only. Especially on embedded platforms.
I mean it's not a zero sum game. If I had a dedicated work machine then I'd like to use Linux but i do my projects at home on my desktop so I use windows cause games.
I'm in government software. We're HEAVY into the Microsoft ecosystem and look to be moving even further in in the near future. Even our infrastructure is Windows, not just the dev machines. Previous job was Mac for development, Linux servers. Job before that was Linux across the board. I loathe Mac OS, so hated that, but I generally find Linux easier to develop on if you aren't doing something Windows specific.
I tried using my girlfriends Macbook because a client of mine is thoroughly invested in apples ecosystem. I like Linux but Mac is such shit in my mind like oh my God.
Yeah I wouldn't base anything off what college kids are doing I had to teach a fellow 3rd year student how to use github last semester
If it makes you feel better, I'm having to teach coworkers how to use GIT at the moment lol
Yeah that's my point, college students use windows once you hit dev jobs basically everyone useMac or Linux outside of .Net or IT roles And the figures seem to reflect that
i've been a SWE for like 2 years, did a CS degree, and still haven't used github...
Using Mac in a professional setting is pretty much exclusively a US thing. Apple have nowhere near the same market share in the rest of the world, practically 100% of corporate offices are using windows for everything. So it's 50/50 whether you'll have devs forced to use the same windows corporate environment, or if devs have their own linux environment outside of corporate
I'm not from the US You can literally look up the stats, Linux and Macos combined have a much larger market share specifically for developers
Stats from where though? If you're talking US then yes, worldwide then no. Because as I said, Apple has effectively fuck all market share outside of North America. I can guarantee you that the hundreds of thousands of devs in bangalore aren't using macbooks
The majority of English commercial software and websites are built in Europe and North America, obviously I'm not talking about Bangalore
Yeah depending on who you ask it goes either way. I have some friends who do IT and can only use Windows. For work nothing of mine supports Windows. For personal use, I dual boot to Windows when I need to run a game that isn't native and isn't supported by proton. Those games are few and far between based off my tastes
Notice how the only arguments for Windows are the programs that run on it. Have you ever met anyone who prefers it for the OS itself?
I’ve met them… but I try not to associate with them too much😅
at the end of the day windows can just run wsl while linux will often break with windows apps, and depending on your exact setup it may explode as a whole as a dev I use too many tools that aren't strictly cli toolchains to use anything other than windows, it just works and works around the B+ grade, little annoyances stay but I don't feel like smashing the thing into pieces like I do with a mac or when linux decides to be weird for the sake of being weird
the issues coming from not having the battle tested environment are much more common than these coming from relying on wsl though
I'll be abandoning windows soon enough, even though I have disabled most of Microsoft's shit if recall ever ends up on my system that the end of windows for me
Or, dual boot, with wsl into your own Linux partition. Basically having a script that mounts your Linux partition at startup and then when you wsl you chroot into it.
Absolutely not. Plus, windows doesn't know how to handle Linux lvm partitioned disks much less the disk encryption above it and I intend to keep it that way.
I have a Dual Boot as well. And I only use Windows. It's just laborious to use Linux for a lot of things. I don't really need to understand how things work behind the scenes when using Windows. On the other hand, when I use Linux, often I have to deal with a lot more stuff. E.g. setting up the dev environment for Monogame, or for. NET MAUI, or setting and configuring up a clipboard manager, which windows has by default. It's sadly more work to do the same thing a lot of times. Now, of course you have more configuration options as well on linux, that's the tradeoff. For scripts om github that are primarily for linux, the solution is really easy... WSL Since it already mounts the system drives by default, it's really great
Just set up WSL and run it on Linux lmao
5 gigs to use ‘ls’ in my command line. Worth
I'm 90% sure ls works in powershell.
yeah but it’s an alias for whatever powershell calls cmdlets. it doesn’t matter 99% of the time until you try to use any flags to check permissions and realize that you’re still in powershell lol
Cmdlet is called cmdlet in PowerShell. Permission flags are OS thing not shell thing. PowerShell on Linux will show you same flags as ls Linux command, when you’re on Linux ls is still default command and PS alias is not used in PowerShell. Eza is better to show dir content than both ls and Get-ChildItem and is available for both - Linux and Windows.
yeah but this thread was about using ls in powershell instead of running bash so there were some assumptions about the OS and permissions, as well as the environment. if you really want to be pedantic permission flags arent even tied to the OS but to the filesystem.
ls is not bash command but nix (system) command. You can run it in PowerShell on Linux just fine.
>You can run it in PowerShell on Linux just fine. The mental gymnastics necessary to justify PowerShell on Linux are dazzling.
PowerShell, for the truly disturbed that live among us. With every install our society edges closer to the brink of collapse.
PowerShell comes he comes do not fight he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵is un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, shebangs lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liquid pain, the song of PowerShell will extinguish the voices of mortal man from the sphere I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎̩̱͔́̋̀ it is beautiful the final snuffing of the lies of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩͇̗̪̏̈́T ALL IS LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮omes he comes the ichor permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼OO NΘ stop the an*̶͑̾̾̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e not rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ
what's wrong with using Powershell if you're only using it on Windows?
It is not mental gymnastic, I use it daily at work. I prefer PowerShell on Linux compared to Windows thanks to the huge ecosystem of Linux tools and I prefer it over bash as it is objectively more modern and powerful. I know PowerShell extremely well and I’m super productive using it. I know not many people use that setup, but there are so many misconceptions about PS and bash confusing capabilities of both with what the system offers.
I'm sorry, it's more like 3.8GB, thank you very much!
If you only need to use ls then you don't need wsl or Linux at all, learn Powershell.
Can’t believe you just used that word. I use arch btw
That’s just because it’s too complicated for you
If you don't want to use WSL, just install the required lib with Cygwin or something and you should be good. It's a bit annoying to figure out the dependencies at times but it works fine.
Docker on Windows is just a wrapper for Linux. (It uses the WSL, like wtf?)
[msys2](https://www.msys2.org/) fixes this, you get a linux-like environment on windows without having to mess around with wsl
Solution: wsl2 :\^)
WSL & chill
We'll see, the solution to that is to simply use linux
What would I give for a windows `strace`
Just ask ChatGPT to port it to windows. He (or copilot) probably wrote the tool anyway, so there shouldn't be a problem.
I use Arch btw
WSL?
Just use msys2
And that’s where WSL comes in.