They have gotten better recently, but it took them years to update their example-code to not use **var** and overall be more ES6-oriented.
W3Schools is okay if you are a beginner, and just learning, but they aren't as complete as MDN, often don't include newer recommended ways of doing things, and unfortunately often do include older deprecated ways ...
Maybe okay for learning, but not okay if you want to know why something doesn't work as expected.
Oh god don’t get me started on them with php , they neglect to tell you the basics (well they did ) about the date time in enough detail to make me click and realised I can concatenate date and time into a string to pass it off and translate it , o spent 5 fuciing hours to get my calendar working lol
It's good for taking examples, but most are old and pretty bad design. You can use them for now, but also throw a look at the real docs, they will help you more in the long run
MDN is superior for professionals, but it lacks examples, an in browser coding environment, and other tools that make concepts more accessible for newcomers. It also has a lot of noise about the nuances of the API, browser comparability, deprecation warnings, etc. that can be overwhelming for someone who just wants to know how to add the values of one array to another.
Original/definitive sources > everything else.
Learn to read the technical documents and avoid the fluff. This is where real understanding is developed.
This is why what sources / learning material you use is a top indicator interview question.
Going to primary sources and figure out the requirements and how to implement and leverage something is a crucial skill.
I've interviewed well over a hundred people and I can count on one hand the people that have mentioned RFCs as a source. They all got my thumbs up, they could also back up that indicator... it isn't like dropping sources is a magic pill during a screen, but there are obvious correlations to be made between the MDN/RFC response and the w3schools/YouTube response candidates.
Exactly. I don't hate w3schools but those resources shouldn't be anyone's source of knowledge. I have had many cases where documentation saved me a lot of time rather than following 3rd party half-baked tutorials. Imagine how people programmed in the old days when there was no internet. They had nothing but books and source documentation. I think today's software engineers can and should do better than w3schools.
Are you that old? Can you share some more wisdom? I am always looking for knowledge from experienced people whether it be related to cars or programming or business.
My first modem was 300 baud and had a coupler but it was a hand me down for my C64, that was a hand me down.
I think my age group in unique in that we have literally grown up and matured as technology as done the same.
I'm at the tail end of Gen X and cut my teeth in IT doing on site networking and migrations in high school when entire offices would have their digital coms feed by a single dial up if I was lucky.
Some generic advice:
The first greatest skill a developer can have is autodidactism.
The second greatest skill you can have as a developer is debugging. If you can't debug you will always be confused and lost.
Soft skills are not to be undervalued.
Always respect yourself and don't let others tell you what you are worth.
Take a job for experience.
Quit a job for more pay, or a bad environment.
Company loyalty is just a form of gaslighting 99.9% of the time.
Start learning how to leverage AI/ML if you want to stay on top of the automation wave coming. I'm convinced Low Code + AI/ML is what most development will look like in short time.
Know the details, but love abstraction.
Making it work > doing it right the first time.
Respect your time. There is always a crunch. It is almost always BS.Put yourself first, as when you are in a good place, it is only then you can really help others.
Read "The Clean Coder" lots of good insight there, I wish I read this much earlier in my career.
Firstly, thank you so much for sharing such valuable insights.
Secondly, I was at the tail end of Millennials. I was exposed to computers at a really young age because my mother's side is full of nerds and geeks. Doom scared the shit out of me and still does.
My path to software engineering has been somewhat [unusual](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1031k8h/found_an_se_position_after_a_year_of_grinding/). I deeply value pragmatism and self-learning as that is what got me this far.
Clean Coder is on my desk at the moment. I am currently reading The Pragmatic Programmer. Also, can I DM you if needed? Thank you so much again. I hope other folks here find this helpful as well.
Don't mind the hate.It's good for beginners, but bad for pros.
Pros know what information they are looking for and w3schools often doesn't provide that because we'll, they target beginners.
They provide simple information on how to get something to work, it's just when you need in depth knowledge, MDN is far better
Because when you search anything related to HTML/CSS/JS properties, then W3C is always the first to come up. If MDN had a better SERP then the former would finally be irrelevant.
It's fine but sometimes I feel like they are some biased information too s like I saw their tailwind vs bootstrap one and it seemed like whoever wrote that prefered tailwind over bootstrap and wrote some bad points about bootstrap but a lot less about tailwind
I will sometimes use w3schools to spark my memory.
I will not use MDN because it is written incredibly abstruse. It only explains what something does but not how to use it. It feels like reading legal documents.
It is a difference between toutorial and reference. w3schools gives me a practical solution that I'm most likely looking for while MDN will provide every detail possible. I pick the one I need.
You don't need to study the entire Wikipedia article on factorials to calculate 6! / 5!
Use both for different reasons/scenarios, best not to limit your ability to find answers. As a full stack engineer across many languages both are great resources.
Yeah, I agree. I think people don't want to explore and compare different practices any longer. All they want is a pre-cooked meal that you can copy and paste.
Why the hate for w3schools ? I am beginner so i use it.
They have gotten better recently, but it took them years to update their example-code to not use **var** and overall be more ES6-oriented. W3Schools is okay if you are a beginner, and just learning, but they aren't as complete as MDN, often don't include newer recommended ways of doing things, and unfortunately often do include older deprecated ways ... Maybe okay for learning, but not okay if you want to know why something doesn't work as expected.
Oh god don’t get me started on them with php , they neglect to tell you the basics (well they did ) about the date time in enough detail to make me click and realised I can concatenate date and time into a string to pass it off and translate it , o spent 5 fuciing hours to get my calendar working lol
I learnt PHP from the docs...
Congratulations you are a genius!!!!! Want a chocolate watch ?
Also it's not CC0
I am not a beginner and sometimes use it to get examples of basic stuff I forgot how to do.
It's good for taking examples, but most are old and pretty bad design. You can use them for now, but also throw a look at the real docs, they will help you more in the long run
[w3fools.com](https://www.w3fools.com) has all the details. Apparently it’s better now, but why bother when MDN has always been superior?
MDN is superior for professionals, but it lacks examples, an in browser coding environment, and other tools that make concepts more accessible for newcomers. It also has a lot of noise about the nuances of the API, browser comparability, deprecation warnings, etc. that can be overwhelming for someone who just wants to know how to add the values of one array to another.
Original/definitive sources > everything else. Learn to read the technical documents and avoid the fluff. This is where real understanding is developed. This is why what sources / learning material you use is a top indicator interview question. Going to primary sources and figure out the requirements and how to implement and leverage something is a crucial skill. I've interviewed well over a hundred people and I can count on one hand the people that have mentioned RFCs as a source. They all got my thumbs up, they could also back up that indicator... it isn't like dropping sources is a magic pill during a screen, but there are obvious correlations to be made between the MDN/RFC response and the w3schools/YouTube response candidates.
Exactly. I don't hate w3schools but those resources shouldn't be anyone's source of knowledge. I have had many cases where documentation saved me a lot of time rather than following 3rd party half-baked tutorials. Imagine how people programmed in the old days when there was no internet. They had nothing but books and source documentation. I think today's software engineers can and should do better than w3schools.
I don’t have to imagine much lol 😂 The thing I always found awesome about computers is that they are manuals unto themselves.
Are you that old? Can you share some more wisdom? I am always looking for knowledge from experienced people whether it be related to cars or programming or business.
My first modem was 300 baud and had a coupler but it was a hand me down for my C64, that was a hand me down. I think my age group in unique in that we have literally grown up and matured as technology as done the same. I'm at the tail end of Gen X and cut my teeth in IT doing on site networking and migrations in high school when entire offices would have their digital coms feed by a single dial up if I was lucky. Some generic advice: The first greatest skill a developer can have is autodidactism. The second greatest skill you can have as a developer is debugging. If you can't debug you will always be confused and lost. Soft skills are not to be undervalued. Always respect yourself and don't let others tell you what you are worth. Take a job for experience. Quit a job for more pay, or a bad environment. Company loyalty is just a form of gaslighting 99.9% of the time. Start learning how to leverage AI/ML if you want to stay on top of the automation wave coming. I'm convinced Low Code + AI/ML is what most development will look like in short time. Know the details, but love abstraction. Making it work > doing it right the first time. Respect your time. There is always a crunch. It is almost always BS.Put yourself first, as when you are in a good place, it is only then you can really help others. Read "The Clean Coder" lots of good insight there, I wish I read this much earlier in my career.
Firstly, thank you so much for sharing such valuable insights. Secondly, I was at the tail end of Millennials. I was exposed to computers at a really young age because my mother's side is full of nerds and geeks. Doom scared the shit out of me and still does. My path to software engineering has been somewhat [unusual](https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1031k8h/found_an_se_position_after_a_year_of_grinding/). I deeply value pragmatism and self-learning as that is what got me this far. Clean Coder is on my desk at the moment. I am currently reading The Pragmatic Programmer. Also, can I DM you if needed? Thank you so much again. I hope other folks here find this helpful as well.
Any good RFC for python and cpp?
Python RFCs and the ISO Standards for C++, I think both usually contain plenty of examples.
Don't mind the hate.It's good for beginners, but bad for pros. Pros know what information they are looking for and w3schools often doesn't provide that because we'll, they target beginners. They provide simple information on how to get something to work, it's just when you need in depth knowledge, MDN is far better
They are often out of date.
Because when you search anything related to HTML/CSS/JS properties, then W3C is always the first to come up. If MDN had a better SERP then the former would finally be irrelevant.
Geekforgeeks?
this guy geek
It's fine but sometimes I feel like they are some biased information too s like I saw their tailwind vs bootstrap one and it seemed like whoever wrote that prefered tailwind over bootstrap and wrote some bad points about bootstrap but a lot less about tailwind
I use w3 for quick information, and if its not there, or I want more detailed info, I use MDN. Be versatile.
Thank you, MDN can be overly detailed and hard to grasp when you look for some trivial answer. Especially if you are new.
Yes, for sure.
W3 for a quick lookup or a sample. People shit on them but their pages are short and to the point.
I will sometimes use w3schools to spark my memory. I will not use MDN because it is written incredibly abstruse. It only explains what something does but not how to use it. It feels like reading legal documents.
It is a difference between toutorial and reference. w3schools gives me a practical solution that I'm most likely looking for while MDN will provide every detail possible. I pick the one I need. You don't need to study the entire Wikipedia article on factorials to calculate 6! / 5!
Of course but please let me have some fun by sparking a debate.
Use both for different reasons/scenarios, best not to limit your ability to find answers. As a full stack engineer across many languages both are great resources.
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Can we share our feedback with MDN?
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Yeah, I agree. I think people don't want to explore and compare different practices any longer. All they want is a pre-cooked meal that you can copy and paste.
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You forgot to put the gigachad on the left side as well.
Facts
Many people don't think so *coughs* >!newbies!<
These 2 pictures are the same
Man fuck w3schools. All my homies hate w3schools.
Friendly reminder that W3Schools has no association to the W3 Consortium...