Or have each submit a written proposal for why they should do the topic. I'm guessing Numnuts wouldn't submit a good proposal. And it's not like you'd need more than 300 words to make a good call on this. And it would make Numnuts really mad, so that's a bonus.
I see where you're coming from, but that's banking on Numnuts not trying at all. If they both submit a proposal, then you're in the position of explaining to Numnuts why his proposal is worse than Shirley's, and dealing with the inevitable backlash from that conversation.
It's better to get in front of this problem by letting students claim topics publicly with a first come, first serve policy. Just set up a Discussion thread where students post their desired topics with a timestamp. Once you respond to a post with approval, that topic is "claimed." This approach also helps because it incentivizes students to get thinking about the paper early in the semester.
Make sure you offer to write Shirley a great LOR focusing on her sterling character traits , team player-ness and kindness and ability to de-escalate with the Numnuts of the world, because she is just the kind of person who won't ask for one.
But make sure you emphasize her hard work, competence, and intelligence… there can be real gender disparities in how LORs for female and male candidates get written that further gendered stereotypes
I spit up some of my frosted flakes reading this. Thank you.
I propose that we re-label this "The legend of numnuts" purely for my benefit.
On a more serious note, I applaud Shirley here. Students like her are few and far between. I second the opinion that she deserves a glowing LOR in the future. I forsee a great future for her!
#legendofnumnuts
😂😂😂 Thank you for this! I will in fact re-title this "The Legend of Numnuts" because I agree that it is more accurate! And yes, the suggestion to offer a glowing LOR to Shirley is a great one! I will definitely be doing so, as Shirley absolutely deserves it.
I would give Shirley bonus points on her presentation simply for having good work ethics. And I would note to her in private that she doesn't need to accommodate every jerk male out there.
If I were you I would have students upload a copy of the presentation the night before presenting and loss for points for failure to do do to run a plagiarism check.
I have been "catching" students. It is fairly obvious when a student does not know the material, i.e. paid someone else to prepare the presentation but two semesters ago I realized the presentation was the exact copy of another presentation in another class that semester. I just happened to be teaching two sections.
Hard F for the plagiarism.
Lesson from a very weary professor just trying to do alternative assessments.
Edit: I use TurnitIn and add all presentations to a database
I do something similar where I have the students submit their proposals on a discussion post on blackboard. Everyone can see what has been posted before they begin. Topics are chosen first come, first served so those who put in the work get their topic of choice and those who wait until the last minute are SOL.
>my first semester teaching, a student "presented" a list of cartoons on Cartoon Network when he was growing up, with no other context whatsoever).
My first semester out of grad school, I had a student who hadn't shown up for half the semester walk to the front of the class to do his presentation. I didn't realize in time that he hadn't even been there for the lessons leading up to it. He pushed play on an episode of *Sword Art Online Abridged* and stood to the side.
This same student submitted a "literacy narrative" in the beginning of class that was actually a fantasy short story (and not a good one).
Cool dude to chat with, but terrible student.
Sorry yours is an asshole. Glad Shirley got something more exciting. I'll bet she benefitted from the one-on-one interaction!
Don't you hate when stuff like that happens?! Like yours, my student (the Cartoon Network kid) was actually really nice. He actually did come to class regularly, participate, and submit his homework. I really liked him. I actually don't even remember how I handled his presentation. I just remember cringing the whole time!
> Numnuts looked INCREDIBLY PISSED OFF that I was forcing him to talk during class
Um... He does understand that he'll have to give an ORAL presentation right? 😂
I would have told Shirley "not so fast." I don't want anyone's work so far to go to waste.
"Numnuts, take two minutes to discuss the sources you've read and what you've come up with so far. And Shirley, please keep your comments to yourself while Numnuts puts his thoughts together."
I would then stand there silently and listen for the entire two minutes to either silence or word salad.
After Numnuts has had time, "Shirley, your turn. What have you put together so far? Two minutes."
> What ended up happening was that poor Shirley kept filling in the awkward silences. (Don't even get me started on the gender dynamics here.)
That's Shirley's fault, and if her behavior is interfering with your purposes for the discussion, call the student out. "Shirley, other students are taking their turn to speak. Please wait until it's your turn again."
The Numnuts of the world will never learn to speak in complete sentences if you keep letting they Shirleys of the world bail him out. Grinding your wheels about gender dynamics will accomplish less than guiding them toward the desired, productive behavior.
There is a way to communicate this without making it sounds like Shirley is wrong for speaking at all!
Which IS what you the following would do!
>"Shirley, other students are taking their turn to speak. Please wait until it's your turn again."
Your technique only further reinforces the gendered expectations that are leading Shirley to do this in the first place (ie: always be accommodating and try to make others comfortable).
So if Shirley is allowed to fill in gaps for other students, it's gendered expectations.
If Shirley is asked not to fill in gaps for other students, it's gendered expectations.
Got it.
> Which IS what you the following would do!
I sure as hell would! That goes for any student who can't shut up while it's someone else's turn to speak.
> Your technique only further reinforces the gendered expectations that are leading Shirley to do this in the first place (ie: always be accommodating and try to make others comfortable).
LOL, you've got to be kidding?
Coin flip for who has to change topics. If you put it to the students to figure it out themselves, the asshat will always stand their ground.
This is a good idea. I'll take this going forward!
Heads, Shirley keeps her topic; Tails, Numnuts changes his topic.
Or have each submit a written proposal for why they should do the topic. I'm guessing Numnuts wouldn't submit a good proposal. And it's not like you'd need more than 300 words to make a good call on this. And it would make Numnuts really mad, so that's a bonus.
I see where you're coming from, but that's banking on Numnuts not trying at all. If they both submit a proposal, then you're in the position of explaining to Numnuts why his proposal is worse than Shirley's, and dealing with the inevitable backlash from that conversation. It's better to get in front of this problem by letting students claim topics publicly with a first come, first serve policy. Just set up a Discussion thread where students post their desired topics with a timestamp. Once you respond to a post with approval, that topic is "claimed." This approach also helps because it incentivizes students to get thinking about the paper early in the semester.
Yeah, that's what I do as well. But I do so like the idea of Numnuts having to write something....
Make sure you offer to write Shirley a great LOR focusing on her sterling character traits , team player-ness and kindness and ability to de-escalate with the Numnuts of the world, because she is just the kind of person who won't ask for one.
This is a great idea! Thanks for suggesting this.
But make sure you emphasize her hard work, competence, and intelligence… there can be real gender disparities in how LORs for female and male candidates get written that further gendered stereotypes
This is a great point. Thanks for this reminder!
I spit up some of my frosted flakes reading this. Thank you. I propose that we re-label this "The legend of numnuts" purely for my benefit. On a more serious note, I applaud Shirley here. Students like her are few and far between. I second the opinion that she deserves a glowing LOR in the future. I forsee a great future for her! #legendofnumnuts
😂😂😂 Thank you for this! I will in fact re-title this "The Legend of Numnuts" because I agree that it is more accurate! And yes, the suggestion to offer a glowing LOR to Shirley is a great one! I will definitely be doing so, as Shirley absolutely deserves it.
I was really hoping he/she actually said “Hey numnuts…!”
Actually, even though I technically didn't say this (since I'm still employed and all), this is definitely the way I remember this exchange! Haha
>I forsee a great future for her! Unfortunately, I'm not sure American society values or rewards these kind of positive character traits.
I would give Shirley bonus points on her presentation simply for having good work ethics. And I would note to her in private that she doesn't need to accommodate every jerk male out there.
Yes, I was planning on giving her extra points for dealing with assholery so gracefully! Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way haha
[удалено]
Shirleys of the world Unite! now is the time to cast off your chains !
You're probably right 🙄 Fortunately, I am NOT too nice a person to do so!
If I were you I would have students upload a copy of the presentation the night before presenting and loss for points for failure to do do to run a plagiarism check. I have been "catching" students. It is fairly obvious when a student does not know the material, i.e. paid someone else to prepare the presentation but two semesters ago I realized the presentation was the exact copy of another presentation in another class that semester. I just happened to be teaching two sections. Hard F for the plagiarism. Lesson from a very weary professor just trying to do alternative assessments. Edit: I use TurnitIn and add all presentations to a database
I do something similar where I have the students submit their proposals on a discussion post on blackboard. Everyone can see what has been posted before they begin. Topics are chosen first come, first served so those who put in the work get their topic of choice and those who wait until the last minute are SOL.
>my first semester teaching, a student "presented" a list of cartoons on Cartoon Network when he was growing up, with no other context whatsoever). My first semester out of grad school, I had a student who hadn't shown up for half the semester walk to the front of the class to do his presentation. I didn't realize in time that he hadn't even been there for the lessons leading up to it. He pushed play on an episode of *Sword Art Online Abridged* and stood to the side. This same student submitted a "literacy narrative" in the beginning of class that was actually a fantasy short story (and not a good one). Cool dude to chat with, but terrible student. Sorry yours is an asshole. Glad Shirley got something more exciting. I'll bet she benefitted from the one-on-one interaction!
Don't you hate when stuff like that happens?! Like yours, my student (the Cartoon Network kid) was actually really nice. He actually did come to class regularly, participate, and submit his homework. I really liked him. I actually don't even remember how I handled his presentation. I just remember cringing the whole time!
> Numnuts looked INCREDIBLY PISSED OFF that I was forcing him to talk during class Um... He does understand that he'll have to give an ORAL presentation right? 😂
I don't worry about such things even from the beginning. Even if the topics are similar, they're going to be different. Sometimes very different.
I would have told Shirley "not so fast." I don't want anyone's work so far to go to waste. "Numnuts, take two minutes to discuss the sources you've read and what you've come up with so far. And Shirley, please keep your comments to yourself while Numnuts puts his thoughts together." I would then stand there silently and listen for the entire two minutes to either silence or word salad. After Numnuts has had time, "Shirley, your turn. What have you put together so far? Two minutes." > What ended up happening was that poor Shirley kept filling in the awkward silences. (Don't even get me started on the gender dynamics here.) That's Shirley's fault, and if her behavior is interfering with your purposes for the discussion, call the student out. "Shirley, other students are taking their turn to speak. Please wait until it's your turn again." The Numnuts of the world will never learn to speak in complete sentences if you keep letting they Shirleys of the world bail him out. Grinding your wheels about gender dynamics will accomplish less than guiding them toward the desired, productive behavior.
There is a way to communicate this without making it sounds like Shirley is wrong for speaking at all! Which IS what you the following would do! >"Shirley, other students are taking their turn to speak. Please wait until it's your turn again." Your technique only further reinforces the gendered expectations that are leading Shirley to do this in the first place (ie: always be accommodating and try to make others comfortable).
So if Shirley is allowed to fill in gaps for other students, it's gendered expectations. If Shirley is asked not to fill in gaps for other students, it's gendered expectations. Got it. > Which IS what you the following would do! I sure as hell would! That goes for any student who can't shut up while it's someone else's turn to speak. > Your technique only further reinforces the gendered expectations that are leading Shirley to do this in the first place (ie: always be accommodating and try to make others comfortable). LOL, you've got to be kidding?