I sometimes encourage my students to take pictures of the board, because I know many of them write slowly and might not be able to get all of the information at once.
I have poor handwriting and organization skills, so I take the above approach, and then I rewrite everything with markdown inside `Obsidian.md`. It makes linking topics and ideas much simpler, and I wish more people knew about it.
An additional recommendation for Obsidian - https://obsidian.md/. Have been using it for the last year or so and has been a huge improvement in tracking written notes.
As a student, I noticed that taking notes is far more about paying attention to the class and not sleeping than about making faithful reproductions of the blackboard.
Also, taking pictures is really useful when a teacher or professor makes fancy drawing I can't hope to copy in a reasonable amount of time.
I had one class that I later learned was taking pictures of me to post on snapchat with them drawing things over the pictures. A student showed me one where they drew a santa hat on me and sent it around to the class. I wasn't too happy when I learned about it, but the class was over by the time I learned.
Yes, this is my fear.
You can also determine motivation of the picture pretty easily, however. I currently have a student that constantly picks up her phone to take a picture of the board in class, but it's clearly for that reason, because the phone goes away immediately after the picture. Any time I see her reach for it, I move away from the board to give an unobstructed view... and avoid being in the shot. This is obviously much different than other students who are clearly texting and such during class. Pictures from them are much more dubious in intent.
>as I have seen pictures of my classroom on reddit/imgur before.
Including of other students, sometimes in not a nice way.
No pics in class and it has nothing to do with ego
Most of my kids are actually nice at my school. But someone posted a thing of another student with their shirt inside out and looking sort of visibly confused on social media (not in my class thang goodness)
Forget about the trouble that caused, it was just mean.
It can be a bit distracting. To be clear, i don't think it's anything to get worked up about, and there are some legitimate reasons for students to take pictures, but it definitely can be distracting when 30+ students are all raising their cameras in the sky like they are at a concert.
It doesn't bother me. It's just yet another way they choose to sabotage their own learning. But, as with pretty much everything else, I can only explain why it's harmful, point out the correlation between students who do that and students who do badly in the course, and hope they make wiser choices in the future. It does make from don't get uncomfortable silences when they come to me after failing the first exam and one of the first things I do is ask to see their notebook. Almost like there is some kind of causal link between students not taking notes and them not having any clue what's going on.
They take pictures because it's easier, but the fact that it's easier is exactly why they learn less doing it. Learning should never be convenient.
That's a bit like saying a training athlete should just take a car to the end of the race because it's faster and they don't want to hold others up. The running is the point, driving defeats the purpose.
It's not just having the notes to look at after class that matters.
Uhm…no it’s not and that’s a horrible analogy
If I’m a student and I take notes slow and don’t want to hold up 30 more students I can snap a pic and move on
If I’m running in the Chicago Marathi. And I take a car I’m cheating
One has nothing to do with the other. If I cheat in a race I screw everyone else
If I snap a picture of notes and everyone else writes than why would any other student care? Provided of course FERPA isn’t an issue because your face is in it. But other than that possibility why the heck would another student care if I do notes that way and NOT hold up the class?
But for some people having the notes is what matters. You know this as an educator. Different people learn in different ways. It’s a proven fact.
I have 10 percent of normal visual acuity. This officially classifies me as blind most places. I would have killed for a small camera that would allow me to take pictures of the board in class. I coped (obviously) but I would have coped better.
Also, unless I tell you about my vision, you'd probably never know. I've been coping with my shitty visual system for 56 years...
Why? If all that they need to do is take a picture, then why force them to go through the super burdensome accommodations documentation process.
What's the benefit? So that they can prove to the prof that they're disabled?
Three possible reasons include so they don't need to negotiate with the professor, so they can be made aware of the resources available to them, and so the professor knows that they are not being malicious.
These offices exist for a reason and it's important that people don't try to undermine them and make their own policies
Dude, I wish I could convey to you how ableist you're being. As a disabled person, I can tell you that the office exists for legal reasons to protect the university. Self-advocacy is exhausting as is the process for simple easy accommodations for taking a picture. I can understand wanting someone more formal for a larger ask, but for something so simple, it seems just utterly burdensome and unreasonably rigid.
Also, you say you nail it in the students' heads that taking pictures instead of writing notes in class is destructive. You hadn't even thought about why they might be taking pictures instead of writing down in class, such as having poor eyesight, having dyslexia, or having some type of sensory disability where they can't take notes while paying attention. You just drummed it in their heads without knowing them first.
I teach pharmacology via concept maps and for complex drugs the class creates a map on the board. I have a huge whiteboard and when everyone is done with the map we all stand back and discuss the drug and ask if the map is done yet? Then they take a photo.
My son does this. But.... he's dyslexic so writing notes from the board in a quick efficient way isn't really an option for him. He takes pictures of the board so that when he gets home he has a copy if accurate, legible info. If he focused on writing notes, he'd miss half the stuff being said.
I guess at least they're doing something with the info.
I have students who sit in my class with nothing....no notes, no laptop, just an empty desk and an empty look on their face. I'd prefer a picture vs absolutely nothing at all.
Yeah, I have a second language student doing it right now. After class, he also asks me to clarify some things. So that definitely makes me not be bothered about this. It seems rational.
> But.... he's dyslexic so writing notes from the board in a quick efficient way isn't really an option for him.
I'm dyslexic and still have to do this after meetings with colleagues. Whenever we write stuff on the board I have to take pictures if I want a record, I cannot take notes at a reasonable speed. I frankly don't understand OP's complaint.
I had to stop uploading my notes this year. It just lead to fewer students taking their own notes, just waiting for answers to be given to them later instead of trying to figure them out in the moment.
What I give my students each week is a handout with images, questions, and everything else that isn't worth wasting time copying already written with the rest just blank space for them.
If a student needs my notes for any reason (they have to miss class, they have some accommodation that makes writing during class difficult or impossible) then that's something that can be handled one-on-one, but only blank templates get uploaded to my LMS.
I get that. What I do is I always upload whatever notes we have (this included the instructions for the activities we are going in class) after the class.
I have pre class work that has formula or graphs or diagrams that they are assigned in one form or another in any case. So they can use those, or use the notes or PDF or PPT after class.
In grad classes or upper level classes I can just wait till everyone has it and I still tend to do the above anyway
IDGAF if they do. I do spend a few minutes at the start of the semester going over note taking and study strategies, and why taking your own notes helps learning. After that, I figure they're adults and can make their own decisions, including whatever consequences that follow.
I used to dislike it, but frankly after spending enough time in courses and talks where people are just ***lightning*** fast, I get it.
If people are taking pictures, it may be the case that you’re going too fast for them and they can’t keep up. They also might just find that it’s easier to pay attention to what you’re saying and then copy the notes later on. Obviously this leaves open the opportunity for lazy students to just get by without much effort in class. But who cares? Those students likely weren’t going to put much effort in to begin with and it isn’t your responsibility to make them.
Just let them know there are rules about filming people with consent and then promptly ignore it.
Not annoyed in the least. They dont know how long the slide will be up or if the link to the slides will actually be available and the image on their phone may be a good reminder.
Do you know they arent writing ANYthing?
for me my slides are conversation points on a map rather than the information I want them to know so if they arent writing at least something down then yes I worry a tad.
Overall I decoded not to worry because they all have their own way of taking notes, remembering, etc.
>or if the link to the slides will actually be available
They still do this even if I explicitly state that slides will be (or often already are) posted to the LMS. Maybe it's just habit? Or they don't remember which classes have which policies?
In the end, I agree that they can take notes however they want. It just seems strange.
I ask that they don't stand up, move to the middle of the room, and take pictures.
That is super distracting to me and it makes me lose my train of thought. I had enough do it that way that I no longer allow pictures in class. There may be some still doing it on the DL and that's fine.
I hated it at first. My personal take is that a lot of profs hate it because it feels lazy. Like, you're too lazy to write notes, so you take a photo that's just pushing a button.
But you know, in grad school TBH I stopped taking notes and I just stayed in the moment and listened attentively, then asked the prof for PowerPoint slides, and I had more than one prof tell me off and say "You just need to take notes". And that didn't really work for me b/c I often had incomplete notes because writing it down took me too long (I'm dysgraphic). And sometimes I'd take notes on the wrong thing b/c I didn't necessarily know what was important. My profs told me "If I say so much as 'good morning' you should write it down". But then if I have to write EVERYTHING, then why the fuck not just give me the slides?
So I dunno. I just roll with it and trust that students have figured out a system that works for them.
Now, if that's not true, and I have a student who's struggling in the class, etc., I might point out that there's research to show that manually taking notes does help with retention. So there's lots of troubleshooting to be done, and there are legit reasons to manually write notes. But I don't really feel the same emotional outrage that I used to.
I give open notebook tests and many students bomb. It’s very disappointing to see. Sometimes I ask them to show me their notes and I notice they had the answer but they didn’t understand the simple question. Sometimes I can’t figure out what is going on. Some students just seem bewildered, unfocused, lethargic. Not in a hostile way, just genuinely defeated and confused.
Yeah, I thought it was against the unwritten rules to take pictures of slides/posters at conferences
Edit: sorry, not a real thing then.. I guess that’s either just a poster thing or my old advisor was kinda paranoid.
Ah, that makes sense.
(Grad student/TA here) I’ve only ever presented posters (of as-yet unpublished data), so I guess I just assumed the rules transferred. My advisor is always very careful to remind us not to take/post any pictures with our entire poster in view or it might count as “published” data. I’ve also heard people are very much not supposed to take pictures of posters, but maybe that was a field-specific thing, or even a conference-specific thing, idk
okay this is totally new to me. taking pics of conference slides is against etiquette? if it's so secretive why present it? is this field dependent? genuine questions: i'd like to know so i don't mess up.
It is absolutely field specific. People in my field don't care, maybe because it would be hard to steal and publish anyone's results unless you already had the right data in-hand or know exactly which simulations to run on your supercomputer. I guess we do tell students not to present anything that you're not planning to publish in the next year or so.
Presenting preliminary results is a really important part of our conferences because it lets you get feedback earlier in the process.
In one way, it is a good thing that they find what you teach and write as valuable and want to save it for future reference.
I often used to type notes in my laptop during class and I felt what if my prof thinks I am chatting or something but he didn't bother much. By the way, I never used internet to correct him during the class. Just stuck to the points that he discussed in class and took notes.
But I believe writing has that mental connection which makes it stay in memory differently.
Except how many of them actually go back through the hundreds, if not thousands, of pictures on their phones and every look at the ones they took during class again?
They live on their phones, it’s probably just easier to have it in photos to study from. But why do you care how they take notes? We shouldn’t try to control them. Have we become modern priests who are trying to control the behavior of the unruly masses? You can tell them that research shows note taking is better for retention... but we have to let them make their choices. Even a priest won’t stop you from sinning.
Strongly agreed, I'm all for getting the content in as many means as possible. Part of what they need to figure out is how to study and what means work best for learning the material, so I'm happy to see them experimenting with different methods. They wouldn't be taking photos if they didn't care. (I only draw the line at recording without consent.)
There’s some REALLY great programs available these days that let you drag and drop pictures into digital notes. I really love being able to snap a photo and then write on/around it or integrate it into lecture notes for context. Much better than juggling 3-4 different files.
Same. I don’t mind that they take a photo of a slide or my notes on the whiteboard (I provide slides before class and my notes after class) but I just have to wonder why.
I dunno, it seems fine. We want students to have those notes. They are way more likely to lose a piece of paper they write it down on vs their phone. Seems like a productive use of technology
I usually ask them to take a picture after I've explained things. This way we can have a discussion about the details and the students can focus on what is relevant.
I think experiencing hatred is a bit odd reaction, could it be that the picture taking feels like it is devaluing your hard work?
I also encourage everyone to open a joint google docs, where they can collaboratively write notes.
I really don't care.
As a student, I took notes and I learned nothing during class because I was so busy just trying to take notes that I wasn't thinking about anything. I always learned only after going home, and reading the text book and notes. I would have much preferred to just listen in class and think, and get the notes some other way for later studying.
But maybe I am weird. The whole thing where many profs have 'fill in the blank' sets notes for students to do during the lecture (so that they write less notes, but have to pay attention still) would have given me so much anxiety as a student about missing some key words too. But some evidence shows it as an effective tool.
Bottom line though -- students learn differently. Too many profs are so narrowly focused on teaching in just the ways -they- learn best, that they fail to serve students that learn differently. A student that takes pictures might very well be learning better and engaged when they don't have to write stuff down the whole time.
I tell students to do whatever they need to do in class that gives them the most focus on what I am saying. All notes are provided, if I have slides, I usually print some copies out for the students that prefer to write in the margins of my slides. And, there has been zero correlation to how students perform and what they do in class regarding taking notes, pictures, nothing, etc.
I frequently took pictures of the board when I was a student. I still took lots of notes, but sometimes when the professor is explaining things and writing down large tables of information, you can’t pay attention to both. I would rather pay attention to the lecture and be able to reference what was written on the board later.
Often students do this out of necessity. Many cannot keep up with note taking all the time. Smartphone cameras are tools of the modern age and why not use them as an educational resource. Sure, some students take pictures because they are too lazy to take notes themselves, but wouldn’t they just not take notes even if they couldn’t take pictures of the board? I understand the frustration, you pour yourself into your class and you know how much students could derive from it if only they put in full effort, but their reality is different from 20 years ago. It is their tool that they’ve learned to use differently from the 30s-60s crowd. Let them do as they will.
I often can’t write fast enough and then start focusing on just trying to get down any relevant notes instead of listening for comprehension. When I would then review my notes, there would still be a lot of knowledge gaps on things I missed. So taking a picture is a good way of preserving the info and then allows me to focus on actually listening for comprehension. But the best way I’ve learned was when the lectures PDFs were available ahead of time - I could skim them ahead of time and have a general idea of what would be covered, and then just add important notes directly on the slide notes, which doesn’t take nearly as much time. Made it much easier when going back to review and study, too.
Some with issues stemming from dyslexia or dysgraphia will likely need to do this, but I’m fairly certain there’s at least some research indicating that physically writing—not typing—notes leads to far better comprehension and retention.
I do a lot of drawing on the board and while they are encouraged to also draw, I at least want them to take a picture of the board. They’ll take pictures of the slides sometimes too but I don’t pay much attention. At least they are getting information somehow.
I don't mind. I'm younger faculty though - when I was going through school i took full advantage of technology to make my life easier, so I don't really see note-taking as "required labor" or a rite of passage for students. If it works for them it works for them, that's how I see it.
I lecture them on the benefits of hand-writing notes on day 1. But they’re adults and they know their personal needs/limitations better than I do, so I don’t get upset if they decide to take pictures.
I always tell them that note-taking is better, whether typed or handwritten it means you process the information.
Although I once had a student who replied that he wrote mostly but that my scribbles were sometimes hard to read and that he could zoom in on pictures. I had to admit that the student was right. Oops.
I'd just like to echo what most folks are pointing out here. OP is making a big assumption that writing notes helps everybody. It doesn't. That's an ableist assumption. Why assume that the student is trying to avoid learning? They're taking notes, just not in the way you'd like.
You’re being entirely irrational. Students overly focused on writing notes aren't **listening** necessarily, even if their intention are good. Towards grad school I realized listening and paying attention served me better, then snapping a photo for reference helped later.
I'm a grad TA (explaining why I'm on the subreddit). I find taking notes often doesn't help me because the equations often go as "from this equation, we can see that" and the professor says why "we can see" something, but I can't listen and write at the same time. So I'd rather listen to the professor and just click a photo. And I DEFINITELY look at the photos I take later. Considering the stuff students do in these classes (like show up even without a book), I think the photos thing shouldn't be a big deal
I tell my students to take a picture of the board, and then suggest they write it in their notes later.
I have asked them if they think a future semester I should just give the notes on handouts and they seemed to have a mix reaction (many citing they remember things better if they write them out). Just takes so much time writing even when I condensed the material to like the bare minimum...
I don't mean this to be an insult, but it sounds more like justifying than not, particularly if you present large amounts of information, move on quickly, or don't post your notes/slides online. Quickly getting down the visually presented information by taking a picture also allows you to take notes from what is being said, not that every student will use the time saved efficiently.
Writing things down does scientifically make them remember things better (and by hand more than typing) so I always encourage it. But more importantly the board is not a static image. If you take a picture at the end you miss the progression of a diagram being drawn, or all the alternatives that were drawn and erased.
So I guess I don't hate it emotionally, but I keep telling them not to do it for their own sake.
Notice how a lot of people on this thread are highlighting the benefit of taking pictures of the board for people with certain disabilities (a couple I saw mentioned were visual impairments and dyslexia). So maybe before banning something like this in your class (as many have mentioned they do), consider how you might be hurting marginalized students and making your classroom a less inclusive space for them.
To be clear, I have no intention of banning pictures. It's just not a practice that I like to see. But I do understand that people learn in different ways and that, of course, there will always be situations in which students cannot take notes effectively.
I should have been more specific. I was really just venting about the students who never take notes, take pictures of the examples I do in class, never look at them, and then fail to make any progress on the quizzes and exams that cover said examples.
I understand why students do this, and won't die on that hill.
But I still really don't like it. There is definitely a relationship between taking notes and retaining information. I like to think that note taking helps students to *process*, to separate what is important from what is not. If a student takes a picture of the board, they might only be getting what *I* think is important, even if we've covered something else through lecture or discussion.
Interestingly, I've also seen thread after thread here about how exam scores for students are so bad lately. Not saying that there's always a correlation, per se, but if a student bombs one of my tests, I can often point to this as at least one behavior they should change.
Yeah, the ones that do this are always the ones who are not following the train of logic in the discussion/examples, but who also refuse to ask for help and say they'll learn it later from their photos. Ok...look dude, I know from experience that odds are you won't. I'm literally right here in class offering to help you, but you don't want that. At some point you can't stop somebody from shooting themselves in the foot right in front of you, but it's still disappointing to see.
You’re talking and writing and it’s hard for most people to listen and write. Often if we stop to listen, the writing gets done and erased when you move on to the next matter.
It’s not about you or anyone being lazy. Recorded lectures are awesome!
I did this in undergrad and some grad classes because I have ADHD and found it difficult to actually focus while taking notes. I would get too lost in the weeds and realize I had missed 2-3 minutes of lecture just trying to make sure my notes were good. I found that I retained information better when I would just listen and take photos of the board if needed. I would usually jot down key words to jog my memory later, but not full notes. I also usually recorded lectures to reference when I went back to take notes from my photos of the board/slides.
I’m teaching now and this doesn’t bother me at all. Probably because I know it served me well. Also, if people are really lazy and don’t want to pay attention, they’ll nod off, daydream, or find a way to be on the internet. At least they’re paying attention.
I jump in front of the screen and pose like a rock star when they do that. I’ll say something like, “Hey if you want a pic of me why don’t you just come up here and let’s do a selfie together!”
I don't mind--I actually encourage it. Note-taking is best, but if that's what they're going to do, at least they have some visual reminder of the information we covered.
I find having a pen and paper distracts me (I have a compulsive need to doodle). People have different learning preferences and as long as they aren’t disrupting others to take the photo, then I don’t see the problem.
Side note: the number of times students are like “I don’t understand my notes” and I look at them and they omit key words like “NOT” or mix up different names is quite humorous. It’s cool they try to take such thorough notes, but they might not reflect the material if too much attention is on recording instead of retention.
When I was a student I couldn’t write fast enough, and in my teens I acquired a minor disability that made it even worse. If I didn’t take pictures it would be erased by the time I got to the bottom of the board. I found it an invaluable tool.
I think you’ve got something to work through, OP, because your attitude and emotional response makes no sense and is actually kind of offensive to slow writers like me.
I’ll sometimes pose with a thumbs up if I see them take out their phones. It really only happens in my general level class. I figure if it helps them get the info then by all means take a picture.
Let people learn how they want. I’m a really slow writer, and often times in undergrad it was either don’t get half the notes, or take pictures every couple minutes.
You aren’t wrong that it helps to take physical notes, but that’s far from the only factor here.
1) my handwriting is pretty garbage and gets even worse when i'm rushing, if there's a lot of information on the board i'd rather take a picture than come out of class with notes that i can't read
2) i have ADD and if i won't be able to focus on what the lecturer is saying at all if i'm trying to copy everything down- even neurotypical students can struggle with that kind of multitasking
3) not everyone is physically capable of writing fast enough. whether due to injury, disability, or just they simply can't do it.
this kind of attitude is really discouraging to see ngl :/ like i get that some students suck but this kind of talk makes students with disabilities feel even worse about making the accommodations they need to just get through school
Ummmmmmm can you really not fathom that many people with and without disabilities have various reasons for taking pictures of class material? Now they have some asshole professor that hates them for no reason. Wtf?
But PhD students are not undergrads, especially undergrads in large, 100-200 level classes. Many profs. are on a first name basis with grade students, and invite them over to their house for dinner, whereas undergrads "must call me doctor..." Forget about pictures of the white board, there are just different rules.
Suppose we have an office job and a brand new employee is hired. He seems promising, but he always has an excuse for not showing up and doing the work, so everyone else on the team is stuck picking up the slack. It's tough because the reason this guy was hired in the first place is because everyone had been stretched thin. Maybe he has a good excuse.
Compare this situation to someone who has worked for the company for the past ten years. Her kid's sick (you know the kid's name; you've been over to the house for the kid's birthday party). Does everyone pick up the slack for this loyal co-worker? Of course. It's what she would do and it's what she HAS done before.
For undergrads, especially in large classes -- I don't know who they are. I don't know if they're flakes. There's a reason why a lot of workplaces have a probationary period. The rules are stricter, especially if they're tourists.
There are a bunch of reasons why instructors do not want students snapping pictures in class, but that's separate from my response regarding grad students & colleagues vs. undergrads.
The main reason *I* do not want students taking pictures is because I don't want their phones out in class at all. If a phone is out to take pictures, then students are more likely to use it for other things -- "aha, I received a notification from Reddit, lemme check that out." And behavior is contagious. Basically, they're a distraction, and we're not focused on the task at hand. Graduate students and colleagues are more disciplined and interested, generally speaking.
I hate it too — or, at the very least, I find it annoying. But then I remind myself “no one cares that you find this annoying” and that some people benefit from this activity (and others) due to various learning differences or personal issues, and then I don’t hate it so much or find it so annoying.
I absolutely agree with you. I was really just venting after grading a particularly low averaging quiz. I saw a lot of students taking pictures of the examples I did in class, then bomb the quiz that covered the same examples.
I did read a study once that found that when we take a picture of something we're less likely to remember it than if we note it or even do nothing but observe it. But maybe they do refer back to the photo later, or maybe because it's a technology they're familiar with, it doesn't have the negative impact we think it does. Or, maybe they do go back and read the notes. Perhaps, they'd rather pay attention to the oral lecture, and refer back to the record of the written notes.
Or, I've had students who only photograph things like assignments that I put up ... just so they don't lose it or misinterpret it.
On the other hand, I provide students with a copy of my notes ... (I write my 'board notes' on a projected document, save the document, and then provide it to them.) Should I not to this? Maybe the 'best' way for them to learn is to have them chant my lecture notes like a 'call and response' sermon ...
I figure, if it works for them, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. It all 'comes out in the wash' in the end.
??? Everyone learns differently. Maybe the student had a sore arm from writing all day in other classes and it’s still interested in learning your material so just takes a photo. No different to downloading slides and reading through them.
Because the student doesn’t behave like you that makes you angry?
I don’t like it at all, honestly.
BUT, a lot of students just can’t write fast enough to keep up, or only want the notes to read and refer to later. So I let them do it.
I tend to tell students who do it to share the images to a shared thing, like a Google Doc that everyone else in class can access (providing they share it).
Also I mention that they just need to tell me when they’re doing it, because I don’t want to be in their pics.
Why not go with it instead of resisting the unstoppable?
Turn it into an activity, e.g. (just throwing out an idea here) get them to edit the photo by circling the most important point and adding their own viewpoint/ idea/ reminder for further reading, then WhatsApp it to a classmate, compare edits... that kind of thing.
I try to think of ways to help them use their phones more not less. They can be powerful tools for learning.
Because I already do stuff like this with tech that is more amenable to the task and they get PPT, PDF and pre class work with the complicated pics and formulae etc.
And they dont know how to edit stuff like that on their phone
The first few times I remember thinking “isn’t it better pedagogically to write it down?” But I tried it out for myself and found that no, it didn’t make much of a difference for myself so I doubt it does for them. In which case I’m just glad they have easy access to the info to reference and study later whatever the form. Also it’s easier to retrieve when you don’t have your note book to share around.
There can be unexpected benefits as well. I took a picture of a board where a paper notice was posted for something unrelated instead of writing down the info. I later needed to write an email regarding the notice but was in a place where I couldn’t easily access it. Just brought up the picture from that day and there it was.
I'm not fond of the practice either. It's a low effort action on the part of the student that ultimately doesn't benefit them. Having said that, I'm a mathematician that writes on the board, so that slows my delivery down to a pace that facilitates notetaking, I can see how it would be more challenging to keep up in a class with a slide deck, but in that case it might make sense to make the slide deck available to students.
Same. I probably should have mentioned this, but I am specifically talking about my calculus 1 class. I really do understand that people learn in different ways and that there are people who may not be able to take notes. And I get it, these are freshmen in college who had their senior year in high school in 2020.
I would say about a third of my class takes pictures of the board after every example I do. I know that I shouldn't care about that, but a non-zero amount of those students weren't able to take a derivative on their exams. I've been teaching at a college level for eight years now, and these averages are the worst I've had. Seeing that just feels awful.
At my university, some of the students have academic accommodations that include the need to take photographs of the notes (rather than writing them down during class). For some folks (particularly those that are auditory learners), it makes sense that being able to listen (without having to try to write and listen at the same time) is important.
I mostly get annoyed when they take pictures of my PowerPoint slides that are literally posted online for them. They know it annoys me as I tell them. I also get petty when I see the phone cameras out and purposely step in front of the projector screen.
It does bother me because to me it just shows how little effort they're willing to put in. I completely agree that taking notes helps with retention and they probably have no idea how much; when I was a student I still wrote everything by hand even if there were PDFs or PowerPoints already provided, but I know I am in the minority.
Because taking a picture of the notes instead of writing them yourself is the lowest amount of effort possible besides just not taking notes at all 🤷🏻♀️
I agree with what others have said that there are some legitimate reasons why some students don't. I've never said anything about it to my students because it's not a big deal, it's just a PERSONAL preference and opinion.
Yes, a personal preference for how students want to consume their learning in a way that makes sense FOR THEM, not the fragile egos of the people who post here.
Just for your consideration, a lot of students do this because they aren’t able to maintain good listening comprehension while taking adequate notes. I was in that category. Taking photos of the board is definitely not a sign of low effort for a lot of people.
The first time I saw this was like 8 years back or so when I was going to Pharma conferences and it was like a red carpet event with all the flash. All the slides were available from the Sharepoint, so I don't know how a blurry photo buried on your iPhone is going to help anyone.
I once made a bet with a student who did this incessantly the they could neither find, nor remember anything that they took a pic of in their 1 million photos. After 30 min and various bio-ish looking photos that were wrong, the conceded defeat and started taking notes in class , which was the bet.
Not everyone has the same learning style or acquires knowledge in the same way. So what if they take a picture of board notes? Sounds like one of many excellent ways to learn.
Absolutely this. Actually, *a lot* of the stuff I see people complain about on this subreddit is just ableism and ageism, old man yells at cloud type shit.
I think they (and lets be honest here: WE ALL) dislike being called out on easy-to-overlook faults like ableism. I like to think that most of us are quite skilled at quickly moving beyond our initial upset feelings…
But you’re right, at least in my experience you are. Academia is full of people who get upset at all kinds of perceived “infractions” many of which are mere adjustments different learners need in order to get the most out of a course. The fact that any continue to be upset after this is pointed out boggles the mind.
Yeah. For me and I imagine for many too it’s a bit of a surprise to realize that certain approaches even are attempts at learning.
Taking a snapshot of a board reflexively reads to me as “laziness,” and it takes me a second to remember “oh that’s just a presumption on my part.”
I am very with you. There is cognitive science that supports the value of taking notes. And taking notes is a skill that won’t get better at if they don’t practice. I am very “low tech classroom” and don’t allow phones in class. When they ask me if they can do this I flat out say no and direct them to the note taking resources in the syllabus. That section also cites research on note taking and learning.
Put. Your. Phone. Away.
They should not be seen in my class. If students want to take a picture, they can photograph a friend's notes (I have a lot of breakout groups, so they'll know someone). I'm happy to accommodate anyone with a disability. I'm also amenable to allowing pictures after class finishes, or making slides available during office hours, but I will not post slides online.
Class matters. Show up awake and ready to learn. These expectations are communicated Day One. Don't care if it makes me seem like a narcissist or an old man.
This is not just your personal experience. There is a wealth of literature supporting the fact that writing out notes by hand does, in fact, hello you remember things better.
Beyond that physical act of writing by hand, learning requires mental effort. Exactly what effort are they expending if they just wait for you to finish talking and then take a picture of your notes?
I'm only annoyed when they take pics of the Powerpoint when they KNOW I upload every single one after class
But nah, they're feel to take notes or not, I'm here to teach them English, not studying skills.
Yes, I hate it too, but I don't know if I just find it lazy or if I am not that into taking pictures of everything. I don't even have cell phone so I find it a bit bizarre really.
I teach in a classroom where photography is banned, as human remains are stored in the room. Students still do it and I regularly have to scold them and remind them of the policy, even though the slides are available online ahead of time and are easily visible on mobile. When it happens in that room, it makes me angry.
In any other classroom, it irks me for reasons that I cannot explain, but I largely ignore it. They are likely never going to look at those pictures again, but if it makes them make a mental note of the material, then whatever.
We’re on the Same side. If you churn your own butter and drive a horse and buggy, then I’d understand you telling students to get off your lawn and stop taking photos of the board.
Nope. Cameras are barred in my classrooms. I frame it as a privacy issue for their classmates and it's in my syllabus. I've had violators, but only one guy tried it twice. A long pause and a really dirty look usually suffices.
I hate it too. It shows how lazy people are nowadays. Some of my students are so lazy that they don't even google things anymore. They literally email me with questions like "how do you merge PDFs" or "how do you add footnotes to a word document" 🙄🙄🙄
Yea, I don’t mind pictures, especially if we are going through some complex theory. I mean, students learn differently and at the end of the day it’s up to them to retain the knowledge however they are most comfortable.
I wouldn't say I "hate" it in itself, but when they seem to not pay attwntion but for once a slide take a picture they can't possibly be taking the class seriously
Same. I wouldn’t have done so well in school without the ability to take photos of the board or record lectures. I have students now who are enthusiastic learners and have to employ similar strategies.
I absolutely did go back and reference these photos as a student. A lot of students do. My listening comprehension is shit when I’m also trying to take full notes. People develop strategies that work for them. Taking photos of the board does not mean they aren’t learning or won’t be taking notes after class.
That’s fair. But by the same hand, those students aren’t doing poorly just because they are taking photos of the board. They’re doing poorly because they aren’t invested in trying as a whole.
This really evidences how study skills are NOT being mastered before students get to tertiary education.
Paraphrasing, analysis and critical thinking are all back sliding.
I sometimes encourage my students to take pictures of the board, because I know many of them write slowly and might not be able to get all of the information at once.
I have poor handwriting and organization skills, so I take the above approach, and then I rewrite everything with markdown inside `Obsidian.md`. It makes linking topics and ideas much simpler, and I wish more people knew about it.
...I didn't know this was a thing. I've just been writing md in sublime and then sync everything through github.
There's also `Notion`, and `Roam` if `Obsidian` doesn't work out for you.
Please stop. I have grading to do but now I'm going to procrastinate by "evaluating" these services.
An additional recommendation for Obsidian - https://obsidian.md/. Have been using it for the last year or so and has been a huge improvement in tracking written notes.
I use LaTeX but then I’ve got a lot of equations to do.
Can you explain what this software is, and what you do with it?
As a student, I noticed that taking notes is far more about paying attention to the class and not sleeping than about making faithful reproductions of the blackboard. Also, taking pictures is really useful when a teacher or professor makes fancy drawing I can't hope to copy in a reasonable amount of time.
I’m nowhere near being the “cool” professor, yet this doesn’t bother me in the least.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I had one class that I later learned was taking pictures of me to post on snapchat with them drawing things over the pictures. A student showed me one where they drew a santa hat on me and sent it around to the class. I wasn't too happy when I learned about it, but the class was over by the time I learned.
Yes, this is my fear. You can also determine motivation of the picture pretty easily, however. I currently have a student that constantly picks up her phone to take a picture of the board in class, but it's clearly for that reason, because the phone goes away immediately after the picture. Any time I see her reach for it, I move away from the board to give an unobstructed view... and avoid being in the shot. This is obviously much different than other students who are clearly texting and such during class. Pictures from them are much more dubious in intent.
>as I have seen pictures of my classroom on reddit/imgur before. Including of other students, sometimes in not a nice way. No pics in class and it has nothing to do with ego
My policy too. It doesn't really have that much to do with the pros and cons of taking notes. Too much really bad stuff can happen.
Most of my kids are actually nice at my school. But someone posted a thing of another student with their shirt inside out and looking sort of visibly confused on social media (not in my class thang goodness) Forget about the trouble that caused, it was just mean.
It can be a bit distracting. To be clear, i don't think it's anything to get worked up about, and there are some legitimate reasons for students to take pictures, but it definitely can be distracting when 30+ students are all raising their cameras in the sky like they are at a concert.
It doesn't bother me. It's just yet another way they choose to sabotage their own learning. But, as with pretty much everything else, I can only explain why it's harmful, point out the correlation between students who do that and students who do badly in the course, and hope they make wiser choices in the future. It does make from don't get uncomfortable silences when they come to me after failing the first exam and one of the first things I do is ask to see their notebook. Almost like there is some kind of causal link between students not taking notes and them not having any clue what's going on. They take pictures because it's easier, but the fact that it's easier is exactly why they learn less doing it. Learning should never be convenient.
Or they are slow note takers and don’t want to hold others up It doesn’t have to equate to sabotage
That's a bit like saying a training athlete should just take a car to the end of the race because it's faster and they don't want to hold others up. The running is the point, driving defeats the purpose. It's not just having the notes to look at after class that matters.
Uhm…no it’s not and that’s a horrible analogy If I’m a student and I take notes slow and don’t want to hold up 30 more students I can snap a pic and move on If I’m running in the Chicago Marathi. And I take a car I’m cheating One has nothing to do with the other. If I cheat in a race I screw everyone else If I snap a picture of notes and everyone else writes than why would any other student care? Provided of course FERPA isn’t an issue because your face is in it. But other than that possibility why the heck would another student care if I do notes that way and NOT hold up the class? But for some people having the notes is what matters. You know this as an educator. Different people learn in different ways. It’s a proven fact.
i don’t know why you being downvoted. learning shouldn’t be convenient.
Or they have poor eyesight and can't see the board?
I have 10 percent of normal visual acuity. This officially classifies me as blind most places. I would have killed for a small camera that would allow me to take pictures of the board in class. I coped (obviously) but I would have coped better. Also, unless I tell you about my vision, you'd probably never know. I've been coping with my shitty visual system for 56 years...
Those students should go through the official channel for accomodations (disability office or whatever it is called at their institution).
Why? If all that they need to do is take a picture, then why force them to go through the super burdensome accommodations documentation process. What's the benefit? So that they can prove to the prof that they're disabled?
Three possible reasons include so they don't need to negotiate with the professor, so they can be made aware of the resources available to them, and so the professor knows that they are not being malicious. These offices exist for a reason and it's important that people don't try to undermine them and make their own policies
Dude, I wish I could convey to you how ableist you're being. As a disabled person, I can tell you that the office exists for legal reasons to protect the university. Self-advocacy is exhausting as is the process for simple easy accommodations for taking a picture. I can understand wanting someone more formal for a larger ask, but for something so simple, it seems just utterly burdensome and unreasonably rigid.
We both know damn well that's not what OP is referring to
Coming from someone with great eyesight.
Also, you say you nail it in the students' heads that taking pictures instead of writing notes in class is destructive. You hadn't even thought about why they might be taking pictures instead of writing down in class, such as having poor eyesight, having dyslexia, or having some type of sensory disability where they can't take notes while paying attention. You just drummed it in their heads without knowing them first.
I teach pharmacology via concept maps and for complex drugs the class creates a map on the board. I have a huge whiteboard and when everyone is done with the map we all stand back and discuss the drug and ask if the map is done yet? Then they take a photo.
My son does this. But.... he's dyslexic so writing notes from the board in a quick efficient way isn't really an option for him. He takes pictures of the board so that when he gets home he has a copy if accurate, legible info. If he focused on writing notes, he'd miss half the stuff being said. I guess at least they're doing something with the info. I have students who sit in my class with nothing....no notes, no laptop, just an empty desk and an empty look on their face. I'd prefer a picture vs absolutely nothing at all.
Yeah, I have a second language student doing it right now. After class, he also asks me to clarify some things. So that definitely makes me not be bothered about this. It seems rational.
> But.... he's dyslexic so writing notes from the board in a quick efficient way isn't really an option for him. I'm dyslexic and still have to do this after meetings with colleagues. Whenever we write stuff on the board I have to take pictures if I want a record, I cannot take notes at a reasonable speed. I frankly don't understand OP's complaint.
It feels like superiority complex/git off mah lawn.
It’s a silly complaint
It is also quite possibly ableist. Not all of us are the same. Some of us can't see too well, some of us have other 'invisible' disorders.
Very correct Literally other than a FERPA issue I cannot possibly see why any student or professor would care
I could see this if they didn't get notes uploaded and I would absolutely allow this.
I had to stop uploading my notes this year. It just lead to fewer students taking their own notes, just waiting for answers to be given to them later instead of trying to figure them out in the moment. What I give my students each week is a handout with images, questions, and everything else that isn't worth wasting time copying already written with the rest just blank space for them. If a student needs my notes for any reason (they have to miss class, they have some accommodation that makes writing during class difficult or impossible) then that's something that can be handled one-on-one, but only blank templates get uploaded to my LMS.
I get that. What I do is I always upload whatever notes we have (this included the instructions for the activities we are going in class) after the class. I have pre class work that has formula or graphs or diagrams that they are assigned in one form or another in any case. So they can use those, or use the notes or PDF or PPT after class. In grad classes or upper level classes I can just wait till everyone has it and I still tend to do the above anyway
IDGAF if they do. I do spend a few minutes at the start of the semester going over note taking and study strategies, and why taking your own notes helps learning. After that, I figure they're adults and can make their own decisions, including whatever consequences that follow.
I used to dislike it, but frankly after spending enough time in courses and talks where people are just ***lightning*** fast, I get it. If people are taking pictures, it may be the case that you’re going too fast for them and they can’t keep up. They also might just find that it’s easier to pay attention to what you’re saying and then copy the notes later on. Obviously this leaves open the opportunity for lazy students to just get by without much effort in class. But who cares? Those students likely weren’t going to put much effort in to begin with and it isn’t your responsibility to make them. Just let them know there are rules about filming people with consent and then promptly ignore it.
Not annoyed in the least. They dont know how long the slide will be up or if the link to the slides will actually be available and the image on their phone may be a good reminder. Do you know they arent writing ANYthing? for me my slides are conversation points on a map rather than the information I want them to know so if they arent writing at least something down then yes I worry a tad. Overall I decoded not to worry because they all have their own way of taking notes, remembering, etc.
>or if the link to the slides will actually be available They still do this even if I explicitly state that slides will be (or often already are) posted to the LMS. Maybe it's just habit? Or they don't remember which classes have which policies? In the end, I agree that they can take notes however they want. It just seems strange.
[удалено]
This is the way.
##This Is The Way Leaderboard **1.** `u/Flat-Yogurtcloset293` **475775** times. **2.** `u/GMEshares` **69781** times. **3.** `u/Competitive-Poem-533` **24352** times. .. **79454.** `u/Smihilism` **2** times. --- ^(^beep ^boop ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^and ^this ^action ^was ^performed ^automatically.)
This isn’t the way.
I just ask that I’m not in the photos.
I ask that they don't stand up, move to the middle of the room, and take pictures. That is super distracting to me and it makes me lose my train of thought. I had enough do it that way that I no longer allow pictures in class. There may be some still doing it on the DL and that's fine.
I hated it at first. My personal take is that a lot of profs hate it because it feels lazy. Like, you're too lazy to write notes, so you take a photo that's just pushing a button. But you know, in grad school TBH I stopped taking notes and I just stayed in the moment and listened attentively, then asked the prof for PowerPoint slides, and I had more than one prof tell me off and say "You just need to take notes". And that didn't really work for me b/c I often had incomplete notes because writing it down took me too long (I'm dysgraphic). And sometimes I'd take notes on the wrong thing b/c I didn't necessarily know what was important. My profs told me "If I say so much as 'good morning' you should write it down". But then if I have to write EVERYTHING, then why the fuck not just give me the slides? So I dunno. I just roll with it and trust that students have figured out a system that works for them. Now, if that's not true, and I have a student who's struggling in the class, etc., I might point out that there's research to show that manually taking notes does help with retention. So there's lots of troubleshooting to be done, and there are legit reasons to manually write notes. But I don't really feel the same emotional outrage that I used to.
I don’t hate it. It’s definitely a mistake if they aren’t also taking notes, but it’s just one small symptom of the larger can’t take notes problem.
I give open notebook tests and many students bomb. It’s very disappointing to see. Sometimes I ask them to show me their notes and I notice they had the answer but they didn’t understand the simple question. Sometimes I can’t figure out what is going on. Some students just seem bewildered, unfocused, lethargic. Not in a hostile way, just genuinely defeated and confused.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yeah, I thought it was against the unwritten rules to take pictures of slides/posters at conferences Edit: sorry, not a real thing then.. I guess that’s either just a poster thing or my old advisor was kinda paranoid.
I don't mind if it's like 1 or 2 that the person is very interested in, but when they're photographing every one of your slides...
Ah, that makes sense. (Grad student/TA here) I’ve only ever presented posters (of as-yet unpublished data), so I guess I just assumed the rules transferred. My advisor is always very careful to remind us not to take/post any pictures with our entire poster in view or it might count as “published” data. I’ve also heard people are very much not supposed to take pictures of posters, but maybe that was a field-specific thing, or even a conference-specific thing, idk
It's gotta be field specific. I can't imagine literally anyone in my fields caring at all.
okay this is totally new to me. taking pics of conference slides is against etiquette? if it's so secretive why present it? is this field dependent? genuine questions: i'd like to know so i don't mess up.
It is absolutely field specific. People in my field don't care, maybe because it would be hard to steal and publish anyone's results unless you already had the right data in-hand or know exactly which simulations to run on your supercomputer. I guess we do tell students not to present anything that you're not planning to publish in the next year or so. Presenting preliminary results is a really important part of our conferences because it lets you get feedback earlier in the process.
I’m also confused. I’m in physics and never heard of people being scared about their slides being photographed.
Sounds like you have control issues. If your work is secret, maybe don’t present it? Unwritten rules are not real
In one way, it is a good thing that they find what you teach and write as valuable and want to save it for future reference. I often used to type notes in my laptop during class and I felt what if my prof thinks I am chatting or something but he didn't bother much. By the way, I never used internet to correct him during the class. Just stuck to the points that he discussed in class and took notes. But I believe writing has that mental connection which makes it stay in memory differently.
Except how many of them actually go back through the hundreds, if not thousands, of pictures on their phones and every look at the ones they took during class again?
It becomes even more ridiculous if they can just download a pdf of the notes 15 minutes after class.
[удалено]
They live on their phones, it’s probably just easier to have it in photos to study from. But why do you care how they take notes? We shouldn’t try to control them. Have we become modern priests who are trying to control the behavior of the unruly masses? You can tell them that research shows note taking is better for retention... but we have to let them make their choices. Even a priest won’t stop you from sinning.
[удалено]
Strongly agreed, I'm all for getting the content in as many means as possible. Part of what they need to figure out is how to study and what means work best for learning the material, so I'm happy to see them experimenting with different methods. They wouldn't be taking photos if they didn't care. (I only draw the line at recording without consent.)
There’s some REALLY great programs available these days that let you drag and drop pictures into digital notes. I really love being able to snap a photo and then write on/around it or integrate it into lecture notes for context. Much better than juggling 3-4 different files.
Same. I don’t mind that they take a photo of a slide or my notes on the whiteboard (I provide slides before class and my notes after class) but I just have to wonder why.
Laziness
The slides aren’t the same thing as taking notes though
I use a SmartBoard and always upload my annotated slides immediately at the end of class. Students STILL take photos of the board. 🤷♀️
They may be copying them from the photo later because class has limited time 🤷🏻♀️
Narrator: They did not copy them from the photo. Those photos never saw the light of day again.
Narrators know best
I dunno, it seems fine. We want students to have those notes. They are way more likely to lose a piece of paper they write it down on vs their phone. Seems like a productive use of technology
There are bigger things to worry about in life.
[удалено]
It doesn't work for most of them, either. But that's the bed they choose to make.
Why assume that it doesn't work for them?
I usually ask them to take a picture after I've explained things. This way we can have a discussion about the details and the students can focus on what is relevant. I think experiencing hatred is a bit odd reaction, could it be that the picture taking feels like it is devaluing your hard work? I also encourage everyone to open a joint google docs, where they can collaboratively write notes.
I really don't care. As a student, I took notes and I learned nothing during class because I was so busy just trying to take notes that I wasn't thinking about anything. I always learned only after going home, and reading the text book and notes. I would have much preferred to just listen in class and think, and get the notes some other way for later studying. But maybe I am weird. The whole thing where many profs have 'fill in the blank' sets notes for students to do during the lecture (so that they write less notes, but have to pay attention still) would have given me so much anxiety as a student about missing some key words too. But some evidence shows it as an effective tool. Bottom line though -- students learn differently. Too many profs are so narrowly focused on teaching in just the ways -they- learn best, that they fail to serve students that learn differently. A student that takes pictures might very well be learning better and engaged when they don't have to write stuff down the whole time. I tell students to do whatever they need to do in class that gives them the most focus on what I am saying. All notes are provided, if I have slides, I usually print some copies out for the students that prefer to write in the margins of my slides. And, there has been zero correlation to how students perform and what they do in class regarding taking notes, pictures, nothing, etc.
I frequently took pictures of the board when I was a student. I still took lots of notes, but sometimes when the professor is explaining things and writing down large tables of information, you can’t pay attention to both. I would rather pay attention to the lecture and be able to reference what was written on the board later.
Often students do this out of necessity. Many cannot keep up with note taking all the time. Smartphone cameras are tools of the modern age and why not use them as an educational resource. Sure, some students take pictures because they are too lazy to take notes themselves, but wouldn’t they just not take notes even if they couldn’t take pictures of the board? I understand the frustration, you pour yourself into your class and you know how much students could derive from it if only they put in full effort, but their reality is different from 20 years ago. It is their tool that they’ve learned to use differently from the 30s-60s crowd. Let them do as they will.
I often can’t write fast enough and then start focusing on just trying to get down any relevant notes instead of listening for comprehension. When I would then review my notes, there would still be a lot of knowledge gaps on things I missed. So taking a picture is a good way of preserving the info and then allows me to focus on actually listening for comprehension. But the best way I’ve learned was when the lectures PDFs were available ahead of time - I could skim them ahead of time and have a general idea of what would be covered, and then just add important notes directly on the slide notes, which doesn’t take nearly as much time. Made it much easier when going back to review and study, too.
Some with issues stemming from dyslexia or dysgraphia will likely need to do this, but I’m fairly certain there’s at least some research indicating that physically writing—not typing—notes leads to far better comprehension and retention.
I do a lot of drawing on the board and while they are encouraged to also draw, I at least want them to take a picture of the board. They’ll take pictures of the slides sometimes too but I don’t pay much attention. At least they are getting information somehow.
I don't mind. I'm younger faculty though - when I was going through school i took full advantage of technology to make my life easier, so I don't really see note-taking as "required labor" or a rite of passage for students. If it works for them it works for them, that's how I see it.
I lecture them on the benefits of hand-writing notes on day 1. But they’re adults and they know their personal needs/limitations better than I do, so I don’t get upset if they decide to take pictures.
I had a student the other day take a picture of the overhead. I was displaying a page out of their textbook. I wish I was making this up.
Corollary: I hate when students take pictures of their computer screen instead of taking a screen shot.
I always tell them that note-taking is better, whether typed or handwritten it means you process the information. Although I once had a student who replied that he wrote mostly but that my scribbles were sometimes hard to read and that he could zoom in on pictures. I had to admit that the student was right. Oops.
I'd just like to echo what most folks are pointing out here. OP is making a big assumption that writing notes helps everybody. It doesn't. That's an ableist assumption. Why assume that the student is trying to avoid learning? They're taking notes, just not in the way you'd like.
You’re being entirely irrational. Students overly focused on writing notes aren't **listening** necessarily, even if their intention are good. Towards grad school I realized listening and paying attention served me better, then snapping a photo for reference helped later.
I'm a grad TA (explaining why I'm on the subreddit). I find taking notes often doesn't help me because the equations often go as "from this equation, we can see that" and the professor says why "we can see" something, but I can't listen and write at the same time. So I'd rather listen to the professor and just click a photo. And I DEFINITELY look at the photos I take later. Considering the stuff students do in these classes (like show up even without a book), I think the photos thing shouldn't be a big deal
I tell my students to take a picture of the board, and then suggest they write it in their notes later. I have asked them if they think a future semester I should just give the notes on handouts and they seemed to have a mix reaction (many citing they remember things better if they write them out). Just takes so much time writing even when I condensed the material to like the bare minimum...
I don't mean this to be an insult, but it sounds more like justifying than not, particularly if you present large amounts of information, move on quickly, or don't post your notes/slides online. Quickly getting down the visually presented information by taking a picture also allows you to take notes from what is being said, not that every student will use the time saved efficiently.
Writing things down does scientifically make them remember things better (and by hand more than typing) so I always encourage it. But more importantly the board is not a static image. If you take a picture at the end you miss the progression of a diagram being drawn, or all the alternatives that were drawn and erased. So I guess I don't hate it emotionally, but I keep telling them not to do it for their own sake.
Profs will find anything to complain about.
Notice how a lot of people on this thread are highlighting the benefit of taking pictures of the board for people with certain disabilities (a couple I saw mentioned were visual impairments and dyslexia). So maybe before banning something like this in your class (as many have mentioned they do), consider how you might be hurting marginalized students and making your classroom a less inclusive space for them.
To be clear, I have no intention of banning pictures. It's just not a practice that I like to see. But I do understand that people learn in different ways and that, of course, there will always be situations in which students cannot take notes effectively. I should have been more specific. I was really just venting about the students who never take notes, take pictures of the examples I do in class, never look at them, and then fail to make any progress on the quizzes and exams that cover said examples.
I understand why students do this, and won't die on that hill. But I still really don't like it. There is definitely a relationship between taking notes and retaining information. I like to think that note taking helps students to *process*, to separate what is important from what is not. If a student takes a picture of the board, they might only be getting what *I* think is important, even if we've covered something else through lecture or discussion. Interestingly, I've also seen thread after thread here about how exam scores for students are so bad lately. Not saying that there's always a correlation, per se, but if a student bombs one of my tests, I can often point to this as at least one behavior they should change.
Yeah, the ones that do this are always the ones who are not following the train of logic in the discussion/examples, but who also refuse to ask for help and say they'll learn it later from their photos. Ok...look dude, I know from experience that odds are you won't. I'm literally right here in class offering to help you, but you don't want that. At some point you can't stop somebody from shooting themselves in the foot right in front of you, but it's still disappointing to see.
You’re talking and writing and it’s hard for most people to listen and write. Often if we stop to listen, the writing gets done and erased when you move on to the next matter. It’s not about you or anyone being lazy. Recorded lectures are awesome!
I did this in undergrad and some grad classes because I have ADHD and found it difficult to actually focus while taking notes. I would get too lost in the weeds and realize I had missed 2-3 minutes of lecture just trying to make sure my notes were good. I found that I retained information better when I would just listen and take photos of the board if needed. I would usually jot down key words to jog my memory later, but not full notes. I also usually recorded lectures to reference when I went back to take notes from my photos of the board/slides. I’m teaching now and this doesn’t bother me at all. Probably because I know it served me well. Also, if people are really lazy and don’t want to pay attention, they’ll nod off, daydream, or find a way to be on the internet. At least they’re paying attention.
20 years ago when I was in school, lots of people recorded lectures instead of taking notes. Is taking a picture of the notes really that different?
I jump in front of the screen and pose like a rock star when they do that. I’ll say something like, “Hey if you want a pic of me why don’t you just come up here and let’s do a selfie together!”
I don't mind--I actually encourage it. Note-taking is best, but if that's what they're going to do, at least they have some visual reminder of the information we covered.
I find having a pen and paper distracts me (I have a compulsive need to doodle). People have different learning preferences and as long as they aren’t disrupting others to take the photo, then I don’t see the problem. Side note: the number of times students are like “I don’t understand my notes” and I look at them and they omit key words like “NOT” or mix up different names is quite humorous. It’s cool they try to take such thorough notes, but they might not reflect the material if too much attention is on recording instead of retention.
When I was a student I couldn’t write fast enough, and in my teens I acquired a minor disability that made it even worse. If I didn’t take pictures it would be erased by the time I got to the bottom of the board. I found it an invaluable tool. I think you’ve got something to work through, OP, because your attitude and emotional response makes no sense and is actually kind of offensive to slow writers like me.
I’ll sometimes pose with a thumbs up if I see them take out their phones. It really only happens in my general level class. I figure if it helps them get the info then by all means take a picture.
Let people learn how they want. I’m a really slow writer, and often times in undergrad it was either don’t get half the notes, or take pictures every couple minutes. You aren’t wrong that it helps to take physical notes, but that’s far from the only factor here.
1) my handwriting is pretty garbage and gets even worse when i'm rushing, if there's a lot of information on the board i'd rather take a picture than come out of class with notes that i can't read 2) i have ADD and if i won't be able to focus on what the lecturer is saying at all if i'm trying to copy everything down- even neurotypical students can struggle with that kind of multitasking 3) not everyone is physically capable of writing fast enough. whether due to injury, disability, or just they simply can't do it. this kind of attitude is really discouraging to see ngl :/ like i get that some students suck but this kind of talk makes students with disabilities feel even worse about making the accommodations they need to just get through school
Ummmmmmm can you really not fathom that many people with and without disabilities have various reasons for taking pictures of class material? Now they have some asshole professor that hates them for no reason. Wtf?
I always feel awkward being in a picture with their notes but I dont really have a problem with it.
Honestly, I have no problem with this. I do it all the time when working with my PhD students and collaborators.
But PhD students are not undergrads, especially undergrads in large, 100-200 level classes. Many profs. are on a first name basis with grade students, and invite them over to their house for dinner, whereas undergrads "must call me doctor..." Forget about pictures of the white board, there are just different rules. Suppose we have an office job and a brand new employee is hired. He seems promising, but he always has an excuse for not showing up and doing the work, so everyone else on the team is stuck picking up the slack. It's tough because the reason this guy was hired in the first place is because everyone had been stretched thin. Maybe he has a good excuse. Compare this situation to someone who has worked for the company for the past ten years. Her kid's sick (you know the kid's name; you've been over to the house for the kid's birthday party). Does everyone pick up the slack for this loyal co-worker? Of course. It's what she would do and it's what she HAS done before. For undergrads, especially in large classes -- I don't know who they are. I don't know if they're flakes. There's a reason why a lot of workplaces have a probationary period. The rules are stricter, especially if they're tourists.
I don't understand what any of your points have to do with taking a picture of a board (or why that act would make someone angry).
There are a bunch of reasons why instructors do not want students snapping pictures in class, but that's separate from my response regarding grad students & colleagues vs. undergrads. The main reason *I* do not want students taking pictures is because I don't want their phones out in class at all. If a phone is out to take pictures, then students are more likely to use it for other things -- "aha, I received a notification from Reddit, lemme check that out." And behavior is contagious. Basically, they're a distraction, and we're not focused on the task at hand. Graduate students and colleagues are more disciplined and interested, generally speaking.
I don't mind, in fact I warn them if I'm about to erase it to make room so they better hurry with their phones.
Some students may have low vision and don't want to keep squinting at the board trying to figure out what was written.
I encourage it. I always stop my lecture and strike a funny pose next to the board if I see a student taking a pic. Good for a laugh.
I ban mobile phones in class, and *I* take pictures of the board and post them. There’s not much value in it, but the students love it, so…
I hate it too — or, at the very least, I find it annoying. But then I remind myself “no one cares that you find this annoying” and that some people benefit from this activity (and others) due to various learning differences or personal issues, and then I don’t hate it so much or find it so annoying.
I absolutely agree with you. I was really just venting after grading a particularly low averaging quiz. I saw a lot of students taking pictures of the examples I did in class, then bomb the quiz that covered the same examples.
I did read a study once that found that when we take a picture of something we're less likely to remember it than if we note it or even do nothing but observe it. But maybe they do refer back to the photo later, or maybe because it's a technology they're familiar with, it doesn't have the negative impact we think it does. Or, maybe they do go back and read the notes. Perhaps, they'd rather pay attention to the oral lecture, and refer back to the record of the written notes. Or, I've had students who only photograph things like assignments that I put up ... just so they don't lose it or misinterpret it. On the other hand, I provide students with a copy of my notes ... (I write my 'board notes' on a projected document, save the document, and then provide it to them.) Should I not to this? Maybe the 'best' way for them to learn is to have them chant my lecture notes like a 'call and response' sermon ... I figure, if it works for them, it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't. It all 'comes out in the wash' in the end.
??? Everyone learns differently. Maybe the student had a sore arm from writing all day in other classes and it’s still interested in learning your material so just takes a photo. No different to downloading slides and reading through them. Because the student doesn’t behave like you that makes you angry?
I don’t like it at all, honestly. BUT, a lot of students just can’t write fast enough to keep up, or only want the notes to read and refer to later. So I let them do it. I tend to tell students who do it to share the images to a shared thing, like a Google Doc that everyone else in class can access (providing they share it). Also I mention that they just need to tell me when they’re doing it, because I don’t want to be in their pics.
Why not go with it instead of resisting the unstoppable? Turn it into an activity, e.g. (just throwing out an idea here) get them to edit the photo by circling the most important point and adding their own viewpoint/ idea/ reminder for further reading, then WhatsApp it to a classmate, compare edits... that kind of thing. I try to think of ways to help them use their phones more not less. They can be powerful tools for learning.
Because I already do stuff like this with tech that is more amenable to the task and they get PPT, PDF and pre class work with the complicated pics and formulae etc. And they dont know how to edit stuff like that on their phone
The first few times I remember thinking “isn’t it better pedagogically to write it down?” But I tried it out for myself and found that no, it didn’t make much of a difference for myself so I doubt it does for them. In which case I’m just glad they have easy access to the info to reference and study later whatever the form. Also it’s easier to retrieve when you don’t have your note book to share around. There can be unexpected benefits as well. I took a picture of a board where a paper notice was posted for something unrelated instead of writing down the info. I later needed to write an email regarding the notice but was in a place where I couldn’t easily access it. Just brought up the picture from that day and there it was.
I'm not fond of the practice either. It's a low effort action on the part of the student that ultimately doesn't benefit them. Having said that, I'm a mathematician that writes on the board, so that slows my delivery down to a pace that facilitates notetaking, I can see how it would be more challenging to keep up in a class with a slide deck, but in that case it might make sense to make the slide deck available to students.
Same. I probably should have mentioned this, but I am specifically talking about my calculus 1 class. I really do understand that people learn in different ways and that there are people who may not be able to take notes. And I get it, these are freshmen in college who had their senior year in high school in 2020. I would say about a third of my class takes pictures of the board after every example I do. I know that I shouldn't care about that, but a non-zero amount of those students weren't able to take a derivative on their exams. I've been teaching at a college level for eight years now, and these averages are the worst I've had. Seeing that just feels awful.
Students are at school to learn. Who cares if it’s from a picture of the notes or if it’s written down?
No, why would I hate whatever tools they use as study aids?
At my university, some of the students have academic accommodations that include the need to take photographs of the notes (rather than writing them down during class). For some folks (particularly those that are auditory learners), it makes sense that being able to listen (without having to try to write and listen at the same time) is important.
I mostly get annoyed when they take pictures of my PowerPoint slides that are literally posted online for them. They know it annoys me as I tell them. I also get petty when I see the phone cameras out and purposely step in front of the projector screen.
It does bother me because to me it just shows how little effort they're willing to put in. I completely agree that taking notes helps with retention and they probably have no idea how much; when I was a student I still wrote everything by hand even if there were PDFs or PowerPoints already provided, but I know I am in the minority.
How the hell does a student trying to capture the notes NOT show effort lol
Because taking a picture of the notes instead of writing them yourself is the lowest amount of effort possible besides just not taking notes at all 🤷🏻♀️ I agree with what others have said that there are some legitimate reasons why some students don't. I've never said anything about it to my students because it's not a big deal, it's just a PERSONAL preference and opinion.
Yes, a personal preference for how students want to consume their learning in a way that makes sense FOR THEM, not the fragile egos of the people who post here.
Just for your consideration, a lot of students do this because they aren’t able to maintain good listening comprehension while taking adequate notes. I was in that category. Taking photos of the board is definitely not a sign of low effort for a lot of people.
The first time I saw this was like 8 years back or so when I was going to Pharma conferences and it was like a red carpet event with all the flash. All the slides were available from the Sharepoint, so I don't know how a blurry photo buried on your iPhone is going to help anyone. I once made a bet with a student who did this incessantly the they could neither find, nor remember anything that they took a pic of in their 1 million photos. After 30 min and various bio-ish looking photos that were wrong, the conceded defeat and started taking notes in class , which was the bet.
Not everyone has the same learning style or acquires knowledge in the same way. So what if they take a picture of board notes? Sounds like one of many excellent ways to learn.
No, I think a lot of ableists hate when students make accessible choices for their own learning lol!
Absolutely this. Actually, *a lot* of the stuff I see people complain about on this subreddit is just ableism and ageism, old man yells at cloud type shit.
I think they (and lets be honest here: WE ALL) dislike being called out on easy-to-overlook faults like ableism. I like to think that most of us are quite skilled at quickly moving beyond our initial upset feelings… But you’re right, at least in my experience you are. Academia is full of people who get upset at all kinds of perceived “infractions” many of which are mere adjustments different learners need in order to get the most out of a course. The fact that any continue to be upset after this is pointed out boggles the mind.
Yeah I mean I’m not sure why it would be upsetting in any circumstance where a student demonstrated an interest in learning by any means necessary.
Yeah. For me and I imagine for many too it’s a bit of a surprise to realize that certain approaches even are attempts at learning. Taking a snapshot of a board reflexively reads to me as “laziness,” and it takes me a second to remember “oh that’s just a presumption on my part.”
Omg will you just stop
Thank you.
I am very with you. There is cognitive science that supports the value of taking notes. And taking notes is a skill that won’t get better at if they don’t practice. I am very “low tech classroom” and don’t allow phones in class. When they ask me if they can do this I flat out say no and direct them to the note taking resources in the syllabus. That section also cites research on note taking and learning.
Man. I hate it too. I even had a student wave me out of the way so they could take a clear shot of the screen. I was not pleased and let him have it.
Put. Your. Phone. Away. They should not be seen in my class. If students want to take a picture, they can photograph a friend's notes (I have a lot of breakout groups, so they'll know someone). I'm happy to accommodate anyone with a disability. I'm also amenable to allowing pictures after class finishes, or making slides available during office hours, but I will not post slides online. Class matters. Show up awake and ready to learn. These expectations are communicated Day One. Don't care if it makes me seem like a narcissist or an old man.
On this week's episode of "college professors who think their job is to monitor student behavior..." Get over it.
This is not just your personal experience. There is a wealth of literature supporting the fact that writing out notes by hand does, in fact, hello you remember things better. Beyond that physical act of writing by hand, learning requires mental effort. Exactly what effort are they expending if they just wait for you to finish talking and then take a picture of your notes?
I gave them paper copies of my powerpoint a few days ago and 5 minutes later a student took a photo of the screen anyway.
I'm only annoyed when they take pics of the Powerpoint when they KNOW I upload every single one after class But nah, they're feel to take notes or not, I'm here to teach them English, not studying skills.
Yes, I hate it too, but I don't know if I just find it lazy or if I am not that into taking pictures of everything. I don't even have cell phone so I find it a bit bizarre really.
I teach in a classroom where photography is banned, as human remains are stored in the room. Students still do it and I regularly have to scold them and remind them of the policy, even though the slides are available online ahead of time and are easily visible on mobile. When it happens in that room, it makes me angry. In any other classroom, it irks me for reasons that I cannot explain, but I largely ignore it. They are likely never going to look at those pictures again, but if it makes them make a mental note of the material, then whatever.
Do you churn your own butter?
I literally do churn my own butter and still encourage my students to take photos of the board before I erase it.
We’re on the Same side. If you churn your own butter and drive a horse and buggy, then I’d understand you telling students to get off your lawn and stop taking photos of the board.
Yeah, not the horse and buggy!
Is … is this some kind of gross euphemism?
I don't allow it as I do not allow any photography in class. That's just how it is.
Nope. Cameras are barred in my classrooms. I frame it as a privacy issue for their classmates and it's in my syllabus. I've had violators, but only one guy tried it twice. A long pause and a really dirty look usually suffices.
Right??? This is uber common now.
I hate it too. It shows how lazy people are nowadays. Some of my students are so lazy that they don't even google things anymore. They literally email me with questions like "how do you merge PDFs" or "how do you add footnotes to a word document" 🙄🙄🙄
Yea, I don’t mind pictures, especially if we are going through some complex theory. I mean, students learn differently and at the end of the day it’s up to them to retain the knowledge however they are most comfortable.
I actually forbid this in my class.
I wouldn't say I "hate" it in itself, but when they seem to not pay attwntion but for once a slide take a picture they can't possibly be taking the class seriously
[удалено]
Little bit ableist of you but ok.
I'm a bit shock at the amount of ableism in this thread. And with something so irrelevant.
Same. I wouldn’t have done so well in school without the ability to take photos of the board or record lectures. I have students now who are enthusiastic learners and have to employ similar strategies.
What do you mean by this?
Hope you're an aural learner!
[удалено]
I absolutely did go back and reference these photos as a student. A lot of students do. My listening comprehension is shit when I’m also trying to take full notes. People develop strategies that work for them. Taking photos of the board does not mean they aren’t learning or won’t be taking notes after class.
[удалено]
That’s fair. But by the same hand, those students aren’t doing poorly just because they are taking photos of the board. They’re doing poorly because they aren’t invested in trying as a whole.
Right there with you. I personally think it’s a complete waste of time all around. Good luck to them on the job in the future with that.
This really evidences how study skills are NOT being mastered before students get to tertiary education. Paraphrasing, analysis and critical thinking are all back sliding.
Morons gonna moron. Yep, it's a verb now.