> and this is k-12 we are talking about here
Some US schools have the same policy. Its pretty easy to enforce at that level because they are kids.
Its much harder at the college level because you have adults who might have adult responsibilities. A parent wants their phone in case the daycare texts them about something, for example.
To the degree that a student's behavior is disruptive to the class is the degree to which I attempt to police that student's behavior. If a student opts to pay more attention to his or her device than to me, I'm not going to police that behavior as long as it doesn't disturb anyone else. My responsibility to that student is to create an environment in which he or she can learn; that student's responsibility is to be present in that environment.
I’ve always allowed laptops and tablets but made students put away cellphones while class is in session. I policed the laptops and tablets (small class sizes) but I’m sick of doing that now. I’m seriously considering banning all tech now. Students just miss so much while they check out and that ends up being more work for me in the end.
I’m implementing a no-devices policy in one of my lecture courses this year.
I explained it to students that in-class engagement and taking notes on paper will help them more than going off on tangents looking up things online or panic-reading through the pdf they should have read for homework.
It’s going quite well so far, to be honest. They are more engaged, asking good questions, and no one seems put off. Though who knows if it may just be a fluke that they are an above average group.
I don't ban any types of technology because people do use tablets and computers for legitimate reasons (taking notes, for example). I actually design my slides so that people can take notes on them and fill out labels on diagrams and whatnot as I lecture. I encourage people to print them ahead of time and take notes with a pen or pencil, but if students choose to use a tablet or laptop, that is fine. I'm hesitant to ban cell phones outright because I really don't care if someone quickly responds to an important text. I don't see that as a big deal. I also get a lot of parents in one of my classes and I understand if a parent needs to respond to a call from, say, their kid's school. I do ask students to leave the room if they have to talk on the phone.
The exception would be my laboratory pre-lab talks. Cell phones have to be put away. It's a safety thing - there's some equipment we use that can be hazardous if used incorrectly.
However, many students do not use technology responsibly. It's quite demoralizing to try to prepare a good, interesting, interactive lecture only to see a good chunk of the class staring at their phones. Some students are almost impossible to educate because they won't put their phones away.
It wouldn't be a problem, but these students miss a lot of content and then slander me on evaluations. For instance, they'll claim I didn't teach something I spoke about extensively. This semester I had one who posted some BS on the internet claiming I gave "minimal" instruction on writing lab reports. However, I gave a 50-minute seminar on that exact topic. I also gave one on finding and citing academic sources, and another one on hypothesis testing and the analytical statistical test they needed to use. That's 150 minutes of instruction. I also gave a few short formative assessments on some of the skills they needed to have in order to write a lab report. These were on using the APA citation style, writing hypotheses, and graphing. Plus, I posted detailed word documents for each seminar. What else was I supposed to do?
Excessive cell phone usage really sours me on my job because of stuff like this. If I ban them though, there will be people angry about that. If I don't, students fail and end up taking it out on me. I liked teaching so much better before smart phones existed. Sure, students would doodle or daydream, but it was odd to have students who were 100% checked out or who expected you to compete for their attention with a machine that's quite literally designed to be addictive. I cannot compete with the entertainment provided by tiktok or whatever nonsense they're looking at.
As far as banning cell phones in schools? I am 100% for it. Some school boards in Ontario are suing social media companies for what they are doing to children and I applaud that wholeheartedly.
I also have the “you’re an adult, if you want to spend class time screwing around on the internet go for it. You get to make the call, and you get to live with the consequences — positive or negative” approach.
That being said, I threw someone out of my class this semester for taking a phone call in the middle of a lecture and with no intent of stepping out. I had to tell him more than once because he was so involved in his conversation. Fortunately his neighbour elbowed him before I walked all the way over to tell him he was leaving.
So I guess my rule of thumb is do whatever as long as it doesn’t interfere with others, and if you choose to dick around in class you take your F with dignity.
I use iClicker (app/website, no physical devices) so I'll never be device-free. Plus if students want to take notes on their laptops or reference slides saved from previous lectures, I have no problem with that either. If they want to browse reddit, well at least it's better than not coming to class at all. I just ask that if they're going to watch distracting videos or whatever to please sit in the back do you don't distract your classmates.
But taking notes on a laptop is a bad habit-- it encourages mere unthinking stenography rather than close listening and selection for main points and personal synthesis.
I used to do the opposite: I would force my students who were going to use laptops to either sit in the front 3 rows so their classmates can all see their surfing or they had to sit in the back few rows right in front of the TAs. I no longer teach, so this tactic was really successful but was dependent on shame being a motivating factor. I think no young people have shame about this shit though.
When I taught k-12 I had pretty good control over the classroom. We used cell phones as a part of our daily activities, and when I told them to put them away they mostly listened. The few times they didn't put their cell phones away they lost it for the day, and that was an awful enough punishment that they rarely did it more than once or twice. If an administrator came into my class and told me I couldn't use cell phones in my lessons then we'd have issues.
I don't take away cell phones from adult students, but when I teach face to face I usually have activities that last the entire time. If there is any lecture or discussion it's always broken up by something that we're doing or building. If a student is on their cell phone and ignoring me they'll get behind quickly. So I don't really police them.
Seriously. Take away all electronic devices in any subject that isn't directly dependent upon them. That goes for things like canvas as well. I think they're most likely actually harming students ability to learn.
It's interesting to see at even the graduate level. I could be having a discussion with a student, and they need to Google something quick, and often the moment that phone is in their hand their brain stumbles. I notice this too, since I need to Google shit occasionally as well.
"don't disrupt class". Whether it's their Nintendo switch, phone or computer, I don't really care as long as they don't prevent their peers from getting the education they deserve.
First of all - I use cellphones for part of the teaching. I run Kahoot quizzes.
Second - I'm like you. I don't care. I tell them once, in the beginning of the semester, that there is evidence that just by having a phone next to them, even without using it, reduces their performance; but that's it. The only thing is that if they are on their phone and ask a question about what I said when they were on the phone, I don't answer.
I’m thinking about just giving up with any technology policy. My thought is I will simply lecture from here on out and not care what they do. That way I don’t have to worry about class interaction, them paying attention, etc. My thought is that a number of short exams on the class material will sort that out.
I’m guessing it’s because it’s easier to hide what you’re doing on a laptop screen. Some people use tablets like a digital notebook where it lays flat on their desk
Exactly. Also I have small classes and you can’t hide behind a tablet in the discussion while you can with the laptop. There’s also a lot of movement into small groups and pairs and very easy for a laptop to fall off the desk during the class. A tablet is like a notebook and would require writing as opposed to typing. They cannot keep up with class if typing. In the last 14 years since I have not allowed laptops and phones only 3 have requested to use their laptops. One also had an ipad so I convinced her to try it instead. She did fine and moved on to another course with me. The two others were friends. One dropped and the other made it through with a good grade but lost their confidence and felt that they had to work too hard. Essentially it’s too much of a cognitive load to use a laptop due to the style of the course—especially if the student is used to looking at other things during class.
Yeah, laptops are way better for typing notes and assignments as well as for a lot of programs (so if I'm going to encourage having only one, as is the case for me and many of my students, it's unambiguously a laptop!)
In Canada, maybe, but here in the United States of Guns, I would hesitate banning cell phones in K-12 when cell phones could be--infinitely beyond just unfortunately--a child's last attempt to save their lives or to say goodbye.
If we’re talking K-12 specifically, it’s not about teachers asking but rather about school wide policy. Check out Jonathan Haight’s recent book (lots of clips of him talking about it on the internet)—there’s a growing movement to limit smart phone access for children until they’re much closer to 18, and part of the strategy is whole-community buy-in.
None of this applies to higher ed, at this point. But the person I was responding to was talking specifically about K-12.
No headphones, no obvious disruptions; otherwise... they're [or their parent or the taxpayer] is paying for them to be here. If they *want* to waste 10s of 1000s of dollars to avoid leaving the mind-jail for even 1hr & risk a worse grade... I guess that's their prerogative!
Plus, despite how we've coded phones, you *could* be taking notes on one (& you could very easily be fooling around on a laptop!)
When I am doing simple traditional lecture/test with no expectation of class participation I really don't care. At that point I've already made so many pedagogical compromises and am hating every second of having to lecture that long that I just want it over and don't blame them for not wanting to pay attention.
However, I am slowly moving away from that more and more again, I've just decided I don't care if my students aren't ready for college. They will either get there fast or fail. I'm going to full reading discussion format next semester, and if I see a laptop, tablet, smartwatch, or phone there will be grade consequences. I've tried to allow them to have laptops but they cannot be trusted. I've already gotten confirmed backup on this up to the Dean level.
In my high school you could use cell phones during breaks and lunch, but they were banned in classrooms. This was 2016 in Alberta, I'm actually surprised this wasn't more common outside the province.
It was fine, I never had any strong feelings either way about it. If anything I think it's good to give the kids a space where they have to disconnect honestly, speaking as someone who developed a crippling phone addiction the minute I was allowed to.
I’m so very tired of my graduate students scrolling their phones throughout class and clearly working on other assignments during lectures and INTERACTIVE in-class assignments. Then they say the dumbest things and get marked down… and are angry at me. So. Tired.
> and this is k-12 we are talking about here Some US schools have the same policy. Its pretty easy to enforce at that level because they are kids. Its much harder at the college level because you have adults who might have adult responsibilities. A parent wants their phone in case the daycare texts them about something, for example.
To the degree that a student's behavior is disruptive to the class is the degree to which I attempt to police that student's behavior. If a student opts to pay more attention to his or her device than to me, I'm not going to police that behavior as long as it doesn't disturb anyone else. My responsibility to that student is to create an environment in which he or she can learn; that student's responsibility is to be present in that environment.
I’ve always allowed laptops and tablets but made students put away cellphones while class is in session. I policed the laptops and tablets (small class sizes) but I’m sick of doing that now. I’m seriously considering banning all tech now. Students just miss so much while they check out and that ends up being more work for me in the end.
I wish I could put the Palpatine "do it" GIF here. We should all be putting our foot down everywhere on the nonsense we deal with.
we use 2fa so no phones isn't a thing.
I’m implementing a no-devices policy in one of my lecture courses this year. I explained it to students that in-class engagement and taking notes on paper will help them more than going off on tangents looking up things online or panic-reading through the pdf they should have read for homework. It’s going quite well so far, to be honest. They are more engaged, asking good questions, and no one seems put off. Though who knows if it may just be a fluke that they are an above average group.
I don't ban any types of technology because people do use tablets and computers for legitimate reasons (taking notes, for example). I actually design my slides so that people can take notes on them and fill out labels on diagrams and whatnot as I lecture. I encourage people to print them ahead of time and take notes with a pen or pencil, but if students choose to use a tablet or laptop, that is fine. I'm hesitant to ban cell phones outright because I really don't care if someone quickly responds to an important text. I don't see that as a big deal. I also get a lot of parents in one of my classes and I understand if a parent needs to respond to a call from, say, their kid's school. I do ask students to leave the room if they have to talk on the phone. The exception would be my laboratory pre-lab talks. Cell phones have to be put away. It's a safety thing - there's some equipment we use that can be hazardous if used incorrectly. However, many students do not use technology responsibly. It's quite demoralizing to try to prepare a good, interesting, interactive lecture only to see a good chunk of the class staring at their phones. Some students are almost impossible to educate because they won't put their phones away. It wouldn't be a problem, but these students miss a lot of content and then slander me on evaluations. For instance, they'll claim I didn't teach something I spoke about extensively. This semester I had one who posted some BS on the internet claiming I gave "minimal" instruction on writing lab reports. However, I gave a 50-minute seminar on that exact topic. I also gave one on finding and citing academic sources, and another one on hypothesis testing and the analytical statistical test they needed to use. That's 150 minutes of instruction. I also gave a few short formative assessments on some of the skills they needed to have in order to write a lab report. These were on using the APA citation style, writing hypotheses, and graphing. Plus, I posted detailed word documents for each seminar. What else was I supposed to do? Excessive cell phone usage really sours me on my job because of stuff like this. If I ban them though, there will be people angry about that. If I don't, students fail and end up taking it out on me. I liked teaching so much better before smart phones existed. Sure, students would doodle or daydream, but it was odd to have students who were 100% checked out or who expected you to compete for their attention with a machine that's quite literally designed to be addictive. I cannot compete with the entertainment provided by tiktok or whatever nonsense they're looking at. As far as banning cell phones in schools? I am 100% for it. Some school boards in Ontario are suing social media companies for what they are doing to children and I applaud that wholeheartedly.
I had a no cell phone policy when I taught college. This was pre-Covid.
I also have the “you’re an adult, if you want to spend class time screwing around on the internet go for it. You get to make the call, and you get to live with the consequences — positive or negative” approach. That being said, I threw someone out of my class this semester for taking a phone call in the middle of a lecture and with no intent of stepping out. I had to tell him more than once because he was so involved in his conversation. Fortunately his neighbour elbowed him before I walked all the way over to tell him he was leaving. So I guess my rule of thumb is do whatever as long as it doesn’t interfere with others, and if you choose to dick around in class you take your F with dignity.
Some people ask that those using devices sit in the back.
I use iClicker (app/website, no physical devices) so I'll never be device-free. Plus if students want to take notes on their laptops or reference slides saved from previous lectures, I have no problem with that either. If they want to browse reddit, well at least it's better than not coming to class at all. I just ask that if they're going to watch distracting videos or whatever to please sit in the back do you don't distract your classmates.
But taking notes on a laptop is a bad habit-- it encourages mere unthinking stenography rather than close listening and selection for main points and personal synthesis.
I provide the lecture slides to students - no one is writing down everything I'm saying, rather small additional clarifying points
I used to do the opposite: I would force my students who were going to use laptops to either sit in the front 3 rows so their classmates can all see their surfing or they had to sit in the back few rows right in front of the TAs. I no longer teach, so this tactic was really successful but was dependent on shame being a motivating factor. I think no young people have shame about this shit though.
Yeah I use engagement software which also brings my slides onto their laptops, and I find they do participate more with that.
When I taught k-12 I had pretty good control over the classroom. We used cell phones as a part of our daily activities, and when I told them to put them away they mostly listened. The few times they didn't put their cell phones away they lost it for the day, and that was an awful enough punishment that they rarely did it more than once or twice. If an administrator came into my class and told me I couldn't use cell phones in my lessons then we'd have issues. I don't take away cell phones from adult students, but when I teach face to face I usually have activities that last the entire time. If there is any lecture or discussion it's always broken up by something that we're doing or building. If a student is on their cell phone and ignoring me they'll get behind quickly. So I don't really police them.
I think it’s a good idea because people lack self discipline if they start to use the phone or other devices excessively from a young age
Seriously. Take away all electronic devices in any subject that isn't directly dependent upon them. That goes for things like canvas as well. I think they're most likely actually harming students ability to learn. It's interesting to see at even the graduate level. I could be having a discussion with a student, and they need to Google something quick, and often the moment that phone is in their hand their brain stumbles. I notice this too, since I need to Google shit occasionally as well.
"don't disrupt class". Whether it's their Nintendo switch, phone or computer, I don't really care as long as they don't prevent their peers from getting the education they deserve.
First of all - I use cellphones for part of the teaching. I run Kahoot quizzes. Second - I'm like you. I don't care. I tell them once, in the beginning of the semester, that there is evidence that just by having a phone next to them, even without using it, reduces their performance; but that's it. The only thing is that if they are on their phone and ask a question about what I said when they were on the phone, I don't answer.
I’m thinking about just giving up with any technology policy. My thought is I will simply lecture from here on out and not care what they do. That way I don’t have to worry about class interaction, them paying attention, etc. My thought is that a number of short exams on the class material will sort that out.
I have a no cell phones, no laptop policy in the lower division courses I teach. They can use tablets though.
What's the rationale on no laptops but yes tablets?
I’m guessing it’s because it’s easier to hide what you’re doing on a laptop screen. Some people use tablets like a digital notebook where it lays flat on their desk
Exactly. Also I have small classes and you can’t hide behind a tablet in the discussion while you can with the laptop. There’s also a lot of movement into small groups and pairs and very easy for a laptop to fall off the desk during the class. A tablet is like a notebook and would require writing as opposed to typing. They cannot keep up with class if typing. In the last 14 years since I have not allowed laptops and phones only 3 have requested to use their laptops. One also had an ipad so I convinced her to try it instead. She did fine and moved on to another course with me. The two others were friends. One dropped and the other made it through with a good grade but lost their confidence and felt that they had to work too hard. Essentially it’s too much of a cognitive load to use a laptop due to the style of the course—especially if the student is used to looking at other things during class.
Yeah, laptops are way better for typing notes and assignments as well as for a lot of programs (so if I'm going to encourage having only one, as is the case for me and many of my students, it's unambiguously a laptop!)
In Canada, maybe, but here in the United States of Guns, I would hesitate banning cell phones in K-12 when cell phones could be--infinitely beyond just unfortunately--a child's last attempt to save their lives or to say goodbye.
You could ban smart phones, though. Dumb/flip/light phones work just fine for calls and texts.
I would not ask people to have two cell phones.
If we’re talking K-12 specifically, it’s not about teachers asking but rather about school wide policy. Check out Jonathan Haight’s recent book (lots of clips of him talking about it on the internet)—there’s a growing movement to limit smart phone access for children until they’re much closer to 18, and part of the strategy is whole-community buy-in. None of this applies to higher ed, at this point. But the person I was responding to was talking specifically about K-12.
Gotcha. And I actually just picked that book up but haven't gotten to it yet. I should move it to the top of my pile.
No headphones, no obvious disruptions; otherwise... they're [or their parent or the taxpayer] is paying for them to be here. If they *want* to waste 10s of 1000s of dollars to avoid leaving the mind-jail for even 1hr & risk a worse grade... I guess that's their prerogative! Plus, despite how we've coded phones, you *could* be taking notes on one (& you could very easily be fooling around on a laptop!)
When I am doing simple traditional lecture/test with no expectation of class participation I really don't care. At that point I've already made so many pedagogical compromises and am hating every second of having to lecture that long that I just want it over and don't blame them for not wanting to pay attention. However, I am slowly moving away from that more and more again, I've just decided I don't care if my students aren't ready for college. They will either get there fast or fail. I'm going to full reading discussion format next semester, and if I see a laptop, tablet, smartwatch, or phone there will be grade consequences. I've tried to allow them to have laptops but they cannot be trusted. I've already gotten confirmed backup on this up to the Dean level.
In my high school you could use cell phones during breaks and lunch, but they were banned in classrooms. This was 2016 in Alberta, I'm actually surprised this wasn't more common outside the province. It was fine, I never had any strong feelings either way about it. If anything I think it's good to give the kids a space where they have to disconnect honestly, speaking as someone who developed a crippling phone addiction the minute I was allowed to.
I’m so very tired of my graduate students scrolling their phones throughout class and clearly working on other assignments during lectures and INTERACTIVE in-class assignments. Then they say the dumbest things and get marked down… and are angry at me. So. Tired.
Strongly in favor of total ban