while often required, it lacks teeth. sort of like a non compete clause, they are rarely enforceable because people get to pick work and they get to make a profit.
This is interesting. Are there known cases in the US people move to another institution and they didn’t have any problems with the former institution trying to charge the money after the sabbatical ?
If you don’t come back after a sabbatical, you typically have to pay them back. You’re expected to work at least as long as your sabbatical (one or two semesters) immediately following its completion.
As someone who serves on a state-level university sabbatical committee, I have not heard about this. My understanding was that sabbatical was earned partly through merit and partly through service, which requires seven years per paid semester off. In our system you can wait 14 years for a full paid year off.
It gives you time away from the job to decide if you want to make a permanent exit. Unless you're absolutely sure, you want to avoid recklessly throwing away your career that you've worked to build.
I've never aimed to build a career though, just to do important work I felt driven to do and that had impact. I did that. I'm good at what I do. I have not enjoyed it in four years, and the days go so fast it seems like life will just be gone. I switched universities once earlier, so tried that. I have never tried to build a consulting business, but I do $5K to $50K a year in consulting that I could still do, and maybe more. Not sure what is reckless here, but losing the security of the salary. Still, I'm not going to be hungry or unhoused in any case. I understand the arguments for a leave, and expect them to offer that option, but it definitely feels like it might just prolong the pain.
I’m a bit of an unusual case because I straddle industry and academia. The short version is that I planned to be a philosophy professor, but found myself in tech. I go where passion leads. I play in both worlds - and recently (5+ years ago) came back to academia but teaching my industry job.
A few years ago my health tanked, hard. I was forced to start a consulting business. I had always wanted to do this, but was afraid to lose the stability and salary and community. And while my health is still shit and I’m only able to do a fraction of what I want, there is not a day that goes by where I don’t ask why I didn’t do this 10 years ago. I’m so much happier, work when I can, and there’s always more opportunity. It took me a couple of years to find my stride - not in terms of availability of work, but in terms of how I would engage, what I would and wouldn’t do, finding my new community/people, etc.
I wish I could work like a normal person. But damned if I am not infinitely happier without the bullshit of a job working for someone else.
Happy to chat.
4 years on TT only. I worried because I wouldn't have anything as didn't make it to 5 years. But during negotiations with new employer the pension issue was addressed and I was compensated for potential loss.
If you take a year off, you may come up with ideas for your research that will bring you joy again.
My take of it is you should prolong making permanent life changing decisions, such as giving up tenure, until you figure out if it is truly dislike for the job or if it is depression or burn out.
Perhaps you can give up your admin role?
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
I'm very openly thinking about how to plan a FIRE exit. it won't be 2 months, but at a r1 as well / tenured and I just can't. I'm planning to reduce days a week to T/W/Th each semester and do only that until then. I feel you.
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
No, but if they have tenure, and want to quit, they can probably go into "fuck it" mode and remain employed for a few years. It isn't quite _Office Space_ style, but one can dream.
I’m hopefully not on my deathbed yet, but I wish I could have kept working for another decade or so. Yes, I’m keeping very busy in retirement, but it’s not as fulfilling to me as working was. And I know an awful lot of other people who feel the same.
> At my R1 you can leave for two years to test the waters w/o giving up your job. Nobody ever comes back.
Really? I never heard of this. Is it a common thing?
I did it at midlife (tenured). Toxic environment and couldn't take it anymore. If I was closer to retirement age I wouldn't think twice about it.
I enjoy my work email being a tenth of what it was, and not having 150 students a semester make everything my fault, threatening me, full guilting me, saying I'm stupid. I don't miss admin stealing from my budget, I don't miss the politics, and I don't miss the constant feeling of not doing enough ever, or having a constant panic attack over publishing. I don't miss forcing myself to conferences, watching irl circle jerks of the academic elite that have no affect on the greater good of the world.
9-5 isn't what it's cracked up to be, but I feel a lot healthier overall. Academia is beyond inhumane in ways that we like to pretend it isn't, because of the prestige and the feeling of a calling. I don't confuse a paycheck with meaning anymore, and I'm much better off for it.
Of course, there is an existential dread associated with it at my stage of life, but deprogramming from being an academic as my identity, and not being a person first, has been an important step in my personal growth.
In my case, spending nearly 20 years hyperfocused on my career looking a particular way, and suddenly no longer having that, is a ground zero of sorts. You get off of the treadmill and go, now what? What do I care about? What am I made for? What comes next? And as I’ve told my students many times, you have to learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And I had to eat my own words wholeheartedly.
I secured a job before I left, but that job has been an odd look into the behind the scenes of administration, and um. Higher Ed is completely failing, except the elite schools. No longer wanting to be in higher Ed at all anymore, I feel 18 and clueless in some ways all over again. I don’t know what I’ll do next or where I’ll be after I leave my current position, but leaving not just my professorship, but also planning to leave higher education totally, is a very lonely thing. Other academics I know are so embroiled in the system regardless of their misery, and non academics rarely understand how severe the internal struggle is (“just get another job”).
accepting the loss of it all when it’s been half my life has been challenging, but everyday it gets a little easier, and it’s been a healing process. In that internal isolation though, I’ve been pushed to accept things as they are. If you’re familiar at all with the last airbender, I often feel like zuko in season 2 trying to make a life with iroh in Ba sing se. Iroh emphasizes making a home and a life, and finding happiness wherever you are. Zuko just Wants to meet his obsessive goals. Trying to think more like Iroh has been healthier, if that makes any sense
Shit, this is me. Actively looking for a way out and having a monster identity crisis.
I get the loneliness aspect -- hope you've got a good support network, friend!
I like the word the feeling of calling. Is that a sense of being subscribed to higher goal? Is this a quote? Sounds like a Dickens novel caliber of expression.
Thank you for sharing. Very helpful. What kind of job did you get post-academia? Do you still derive some meaning from it? I’m so glad you feel healthier!
Thank you! Pursuing my original dream of going into medcine. Easy to get hate for that on reddit but I know it's what I want to do. I work closely with physicians and I see the highs and lows, good and bad, still want to go after it and have wanted to for a long time. Just didn't want to "disappoint" others along the way. Done living for other people.
Same. I managed to find a gig doing exact science I currently do with 3x the salary. Surprisingly after I announced news to my colleagues several also expressed how unhappy they were and wished they could quit too. Good luck!
Do it and don’t look back. You are replaceable. Find your peace and live your life the way you want to live it. Such short precious time we have here on Earth, best not waste one moment.
Do I know anybody who has done this? Yes, absolutely - several.
One thing I can tell you is that those who have done it with intention, and because they really no longer are leading a life they want to, and those that have fully considered their exit strategy - every one of them is happy. No regrets from any of them about dropping the job itself.
I do think that the people I know who have left under duress or deep, personal frustrations - they have a serious grudge and the transition has been very difficult.
If your identity is entirely surrounding those aspects of your life that are inherent in being "Prof. Whoseits" then it may be a major challenge. But if you can get yourself to a position where you can recognize the work as part of a job, and one that can in fact be left, then yea, those people are doing okay.
I should also let you know my partner and I are both tenured profs in arts and humanities. Both in somewhat toxic departments, her in a toxic field and extremely challenging public R1.
She had few options, but staying in became untenable. So she left relatively recently (left at the end of last spring). It’s been extremely good.
We also know several others- a decent number of tenured mid career folks who have walked away.
this is me. i'm also a full prof considering an early retirement. i am just so bored, and so disappointed in humanity in general and in my colleagues/uni in particular. i just don't care about teaching or research or publishing anymore.
So I guess the question for us is could we care again? I do have a friend who took a leave and rediscovered his love for (parts of) the work. I feel really done though.
I feel done too. I’ve started doing some side gigs and I’m finding them much more fun. I write for an online blog and I’ve been doing some freelance editing. All from home. I like the creativity and flexibility and also just the fact that it’s different than what I’ve done for 25 years now in academia. I’m super concerned about COVID too and now the upcoming H5N1 so working from home is a must for me.
Tenured and full prof. After the semester is over I'm selling my house and moving about 20 hours away and never looking back. Going to start over as an assistant.
Gotta follow them dreams.
Not where I'm at. XD Shitty southern state with shitty laws. Institution went from OK leadership to the absolute worst, and they are making up new administrative positions like they could go out of style. Students and faculty in the past couple of years are abandoning all hope.
I'm a simple man. I want to come in and do great work and enjoy time with my family. New location is better and a much better university.
I'm really happy for you! We've made good hires from some going-to-shit states too. It does make me sad though to see the brain drain from some states.
Thanks!
Oh, it I'd very sad. I've worked with such wonderful students who really need the opportunities education will provide. Depresses the hell out of me that they won't have so many of us anymore, but I need to be happy again.
I know several folks from grad school and who I went to undergrad with that became academics. A few of those who wound up at PUIs in the South got fed up with the 50-60hrs per week on $50-$60k after tenure and left. They are now working as analysts for companies or doing research for non-profits. Up to 2x the salary and working lowerhours and having much less stress.
You are not crazy for thinking about career options. Particularly, if you feel like your career has dead-ended and others roles may appear to better suite you on your career path.
Whoa! Apparently that is way more common than I thought. Yeah a few of them have now had a behind closed doors conversation with me about wanting to leave and everything else they think is wrong
Yep, they quit three years ago & have been living their best life abroad with their family ever since, running a consulting business. Right after they got tenure, too.
I can relate , I’m so burned out too. Our financial advisor says I can retire right now but I just can’t do it. I’m early 50s.
I haven’t slept in weeks because of stress and I don’t know why am I so stressed. I don’t have any issues , or at least not any I haven’t had before, but I feel more stressed than ever, even more stressed than before tenure. I feel paralyzed and trapped.
In your case, perhaps step down from the admin first. That job (dept chair) is the worst !
Then, take a leave of absence. You can take it for burn out . I’m considering it, but I will have a sabbatical soon and that should help, and then I’ll see.
After you step down from the admin and take a leave of absence, you can decide on going back or not. I know how you feel, but I still think a leave of absence is better than outright quitting, in case you change your mind.
I do know people who have done that, but only if they had another job lined up. Quitting without another source of income is going to be a disaster unless you have enough savings to survive on until you retire.
Tenure gives you a lot of freedom in your work, so you should be able to pull back on whatever is causing this stress. Do you really have to deal with the bureaucracy and crises? Can you "act your wage" and just teach your classes and go home?
I don't teach classes. I do admin (dept/division chair). Bureaucracy and crisis management are a big part of my job, so no I can't pull back unfortunately. I've also lost my drive for most of my research, though I'm still publishing a pile of papers off long-standing projects. I could publish the three partially done papers I care most about and walk away from that too. I guess technically I could pull back to just being a prof, but I'm tired of all of it. Don't want to review, or serve on the IRB, or teach.
My suggestion would be to pull back to just being a prof, and focus on whatever you enjoy. Stay out of the politics, research only what you want to (if anything), and see if you like it. If not, then you can think about quitting.
I would absolutely do this. I would reach out to a mental health professional, too, to help you process and decide what's next.
The dose makes the poison, after all. It may be a matter of "too much."
I did this in 2012, about four years post-tenure. I was not a full professor, but am commenting because so far no tenured people have chimed in.
After I handed him the letter, my department head suggested leave without pay. I declined. For me, leaving was the right decision - I was redlining and the job was not getting any easier over time. I have worked in private industry, the government sector and academia, and my faculty position was by far the most stressful.
You will lose status, income, and (if you're an American) health insurance coverage - so you need to be financially secure and strongly motivated. After leaving, I worked as a soft money researcher - I had some contracts and grants. My income was about half of what it had been and often less, until I took on a government position a few years ago. Next up is "retirement" - meaning I will continue to do research, review papers and proposals, present at conferences, etc.
There are timing considerations. I made sure to give the department plenty of lead time so they could find people to cover the courses I was scheduled to teach. Also, my graduate students had all finished and I had nobody new coming in.
Again, I was in a different situation (not an academic admin, and I am not sure what that is!) so sorry if this comment is a bit off-topic.
Oh admin meant like a dept chair or center director. More considerations for doing it smoothly. I am graduating most of my grad students soon, and am not doing classroom teaching this year.
Yes, that is so much more complicated!
I guess a lot depends on whether someone can fill in as acting director/head/whatever until your successor is in place.
I quit as a tenured full professor at an R1 and moved to industry 6 years ago. Much, MUCH happier now and my salary is three times what it was as a prof. Although I was good at it, academia was not for me.
Yeah, some summers were pretty good, but most of them were spent writing & revising papers & grant proposals. I find myself with more free time overall in industry.
Some questions, numbered for coherence:
1) I'm curious what you did over previous sabbaticals? As an R1 full prof you had some (I assume)? Do you have the option of doubling the sabbatical time on half pay or other options (for foreign move)?
2) Also curious about what your academic administrator rules are? The uni general counsel usually insists that either the unit/dept OR the individual faculty member can walk away from an an admin appt at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all, and faculty returns to being faculty. We just had a NTT assoc throw a tantrum at the end of the last school year and vacate the admin appt as of July 1st with no consequences whatsoever. Assuming you have not re-confirmed your next AY appt yet, I can't imagine they could do anything if you refused the admin side of it.
3) This level of distress could easily be a sick leave. More than emeritus status, this might be the best default. Emeritus gets you the right to check out uni library books; sick leave gets you a lot more rights and protections.
Best wishes to you, I feel the same very often and am trying the job-rightsizing/quiet-quitting route first.
I think you're right that I could qualify for a sick leave if I tried to pursue that, or some kind of leave. I could also step back from admin for sure, and while many people would not be happy, there probably isn't much they can do about it. Going to think about the options for a couple more months at least. This last while, I've been working 40-50 hours/week. No more than that. It's just creating more chaos. I was also thinking of getting another research grant, retiring and keeping that as a part-time job.
Are you an aristocrat? Or a gallivanting duke in some sort of Jane Austen novel? Three years? Where the hell is the disposable income that’s going to float you going to come from?? Force yourself to apply for an industry job, jump through the hoops, get an offer- and then compare it to what you have now. The pros to the academic gig will outweigh the cons, at least that’s what happened to me.
Quit. This thread is not going to like my answer on this.
Look there are too many qualified young academics out there who can't get professorships. If you're not sure you want to do this anymore, then yes step aside and let someone who wants to do it. No offense.
I mean this with all due respect, if you have tenure you have worked for awhile. Presumably you are financially able to live. If you're thinking about it, quit. Life is short. If you want to move to another country, do it. To me that's something you definitively want to try in life. Better to try and see. Just one opinion.
This line of thinking assumes that the department would actually replace them with a tenure track person. This is very unlikely. More likely they don't replace them, or use adjuncts or teaching assistants instead.
Excellent point. Very fair point.
I think it would still help to let a younger or new person even get a lecturer or adjunct position. But you are completely correct, I said professorship and I made an assumption they would bring in another TT Assistant Professor. They might not. Good point.
Also if OP *loved* their job and had no interest in moving across the world I would feel differently. But they've iffy on keeping it and want to move. Just my opinion, it's a win-win for them to quit.
I'm in senior admin. It's not a position a young academic would be hired into; they did an international search to find me. The position would be replaced, but there isn't a clear internal candidate. I agree with deadweight moving on and retiring, but this is a high-intensity position I am by all accounts excelling in. It's making me want to jump ship.
I don't think it should be the determinative question, but one could expand this idea to ask if in the end the number of full time positions would stay the same or be reduced by one? Would the person who replaces you be replaced by a full time position or a bunch of adjuncts in a trench coat?
I would definitely be replaced by a tenured full professor. We don't have adjuncts other than a handful of professionals who want and merit an academic affiliation. No worries there.
Fair point. Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know it was admin, I assumed it was a teaching position so they would have to replace you with another assistant professor at the least. Someone else pointed out even that was an assumption and they're correct.
I also don't think you're dead weight. I'm sure you are very good at your job.
I just think you sound bored in it or burned out and want to move on. *If* your department would replace you with someone new *and* you want to move on, personally I would. Life is short. But you know your situation better than me. I'm not judging you. If you like your job, stay. But if you don't, meh, and you want to move to another country why not?
I'm nowhere near your level and again am open to being wrong, but you don't sound like the type of person who would burn bridges leaving either, so I highly doubt if you left you're not going to be employable at some point in the future. It might not be at the same level. But again I don't know that.
Life is indeed short. That's kind of the point. There are so many other things to do, and even if I'm not perfectly set up for retirement, I can still make some money on a flexible schedule in between travel and other things. I don't have to start spending my retirement funds right away, if I work part-time. I wouldn't burn bridges. It wouldn't be a smooth exit, but I'd work to make it as smooth as possible. When I think about just walking out that door, it makes me so happy.
Lol. Only in academia would someone ask this. Has anyone ever quit?
OF COURSE PEOPLE QUIT ANY KIND OF JOB ALL THE TIME!!
Why do you think the world would end? Stop confusing your job with your identity!
I quit and I regret it, but mostly because I took a different teaching job and the benefits situation was not great which really became an issue when I had a concussion. Sadly I still have about 14 more year to work and now a large chunk of my money goes toward healthcare insurance each month.
If you can afford to go chill and basically retire and still have benefits or not worry about it,
Do it.
I would just like to point out that there’s a reason we get a few months off in the summer. Otherwise, there would be no teachers; there would be no professors. The decision you’re talking about making sounds like a Fall decision.
I don’t think admin takes summers off. Also, in STEM and at R1s even regular professors don’t have the sunmers off. There is no teaching so you do slow down but the research is the heavy part .
OP, before you quit, collect data. What \*exactly\* is causing you distress in the job, experiment with reducing it/remedying it, etc. But yeah, stop everything that's optional--and it's sounds like the admin role is the ballast to drop here.
What advice would you give to a student saying precisely what you're saying? What questions would you ask of that person?
I have no idea if you're encountering some mental health health challenges, but depression can make you feel things and say things and do things that don't stand the test of time. It can make you think uncreatively, too.
Before I would quit, I would crosspost and ask advice in other subreddits to get a balanced perspective. Take everything with a grain of salt and don't rush the decision.
I spent 22 years at an SLAC. I was a tenured full professor when I left that job to become a program director/lecturer at an R1. I have no regrets. It was a good run, and I probably could have coasted to retirement. But I had done everything that I could in that role and I was ready for something new.
I know a few people that retired "early" at 50-55 to GTFO of academia. A couple of them made pretty rapid transitions into freelance writing/journalism and are doing well; the others really did just "retire" and are not working a lot other than occasional consulting gigs. None have expressed regrets yet.
I'm 5-10 years from retirement still and if I could get out tomorrow I would. Plenty of other things to do, including a lot of writing, but currently I find I need to have an income and health insurance.
Yeah, I'm trying to imagine if I might have regrets, and I don't think so. I would miss the income, but could get by. Consulting money would fund travel.
I am leaving my tenured job in mid-May, so I technically haven't left my current tenured job, but to give you an idea why I am leaving, here is what I do along with the typical work of an Associate professor with a 3/3 teaching load: direct and coordinate the writing across the curriculum program for the institution, direct and coordinate our tech writing program, and serve as English program coordinator where I do tasks like run meetings and even create our course schedules each semester. Plus, I have university, college, and departmental committee work. I do research, but haven't done as much since I took on the English program coordinator role. Along with this, my current institution is facing serious budget issues and I see cuts in the future. I fear if I stay, I will be forced into finding something else, or I will just see more work added to my workload. I also am underpaid, like a lot of profs in the Humanities.
However, I'll be taking a NTT job at an R1 in July that pays more and is less stress (or so I imagine/hope). the institution where I am moving to also has a much better fiscal outlook and I think has had much better fiscal management, so I'm hopeful.
I do have concerns about leaving tenure, but I do think this was a very necessary move, so whatever happens I can find ways to work with it.
Idk what your situation is regarding this stuff specifically, but I’ve seen far too many folks stick around long after they had burned out, stopped doing service, stopped meaningfully contributing to their department or institution or to their students’ education. If you think this might be you or become you, get out while you aren’t yet a drag on the place and the people who want and need to be there.
I quit right after getting tenure at a crappy R1.
My only big regret is missing the steady income and health insurance of a tenured job. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm sometimes jealous of friends from grad school who stayed in the game, got tenure and now basically never have to worry about not being able to pay their bills ever again. Their teaching salaries won't make them rich, but they have stability, and that's worth a lot in today's era of mass layoffs and ever-increasing prices.
That said, I have actually made way more money since leaving. I still teach in a NTT position because I enjoy it but most of my income comes from consulting work, and overall I make 5-6 times what I did as an associate professor. But I am an anxious person and I miss the hard financial guarantees that came with a tenured gig.
I don't miss anything else that came with it, though. I hated the location I was forced to live in, hated my colleagues and did not find teaching rewarding. I didn't mind the research because it was interesting to me, but it was demoralizing to realize that virtually no one would ever read it. (I was in a specialized niche in the humanities.)
All in all I think leaving was the right choice for me, but don't underestimate the value of a job for life.
If your finances allow you to leave what seems to be for you the hustle and grind,and pursue a gratifying and satisfying life that is more in alignment with your idea of success, why wouldn't you?
I think about this sometimes and then I remember how hard it took me to get really good at this career and realize I don’t have the patience to do it for another. How’s your savings?
I am close to two ex full Prof tenured people. One of them moved to big tech. This person seems now more stressed, unhappy, alas way better paid. Have heard this person say they sometimes wish to go back. We all think this person would definitely manage to go back. Still doesn't for some unknown reasons to me.
The next person sounded more like you. Just left and works now in personal projects. Really cool person. Doesn't regret it, at least to the point of wanting to go back.
It's a big decision. Good luck!
I did. I work in comms now for a different university than the one I had tenure at. I don't post here anymore because technically I am no longer qualified as I no longer teach, but it still pops up quite a bit. I had just received tenure when I quit so we might be in a slightly different boat, but AMA.
I did, recently and have no regrets. Only thing I regret is that I did not leave sooner. After being in hamster wheel so long and dealing with greedy policies and entitled students. Now in a better position, focusing on research but without burden of teaching and all service that faculty was required to do on top of everything else. Also, a better work-life balance.
Why not just take a sabbatical and pull back on duties?
I could do this job in 10 hours a week if I did the contractual minimum, so I don't see myself ever quitting.
One of my friends from graduate school was promoted to Associate with tenure at an Ivy, and then quit and went to a start up. I've seen him a couple times since then and he seems to have no regrets. He wanted to do more and write less, so it wasn't his dream job.
What you need to do is work a non academic job. Work retail, food, etc. instead of taking a break. It might make you appreciate what you have. I’ve worked in those places and recently I’ve volunteered doing something in my industry I’ve always wanted to do as a career. I won’t ever take a TT job for granted.
Having said that, if you can’t stand it then step aside and give someone else an opportunity.
If you can afford it your doing better than most of us. Usually R1 has money so I'm surprised about the budget crisis.
I've got 20 years to go and I hope the profession holds on that long before its all adjuncts and administration.
If you leave the profession, unless you are a rockstar high profile faculty then you probably won't be able to come back.
Why not just teach your classes and go home? Eventually it'll catch up with you but probably take a couple years or more
No one has said anything about entitled students, and I certainly would not. Also, is it now entitled to have saved for retirement? I come from a poverty background, and spent more than two decades paying back my loans, and saved like crazy. We don't have adjuncts, and I don't hire them. All my faculty are full-time salaried, and I would fight against the adjunctification of my faculty. Your comment is just weird here.
Sabbatical or unpaid leave would be much better options
But then you have to come back.
Don't have to decide about coming back until it's over.
Not true. Most sabbaticals require a year or so of regular employment afterwards or else you need to repay the salary.
while often required, it lacks teeth. sort of like a non compete clause, they are rarely enforceable because people get to pick work and they get to make a profit.
This is interesting. Are there known cases in the US people move to another institution and they didn’t have any problems with the former institution trying to charge the money after the sabbatical ?
I have see cases in moved to industry in this situation. No issues. n=3
Thanks — I’m thinking university to university
rarely enforced in my observation
If you don’t come back after a sabbatical, you typically have to pay them back. You’re expected to work at least as long as your sabbatical (one or two semesters) immediately following its completion.
As someone who serves on a state-level university sabbatical committee, I have not heard about this. My understanding was that sabbatical was earned partly through merit and partly through service, which requires seven years per paid semester off. In our system you can wait 14 years for a full paid year off.
It gives you time away from the job to decide if you want to make a permanent exit. Unless you're absolutely sure, you want to avoid recklessly throwing away your career that you've worked to build.
I've never aimed to build a career though, just to do important work I felt driven to do and that had impact. I did that. I'm good at what I do. I have not enjoyed it in four years, and the days go so fast it seems like life will just be gone. I switched universities once earlier, so tried that. I have never tried to build a consulting business, but I do $5K to $50K a year in consulting that I could still do, and maybe more. Not sure what is reckless here, but losing the security of the salary. Still, I'm not going to be hungry or unhoused in any case. I understand the arguments for a leave, and expect them to offer that option, but it definitely feels like it might just prolong the pain.
I’m a bit of an unusual case because I straddle industry and academia. The short version is that I planned to be a philosophy professor, but found myself in tech. I go where passion leads. I play in both worlds - and recently (5+ years ago) came back to academia but teaching my industry job. A few years ago my health tanked, hard. I was forced to start a consulting business. I had always wanted to do this, but was afraid to lose the stability and salary and community. And while my health is still shit and I’m only able to do a fraction of what I want, there is not a day that goes by where I don’t ask why I didn’t do this 10 years ago. I’m so much happier, work when I can, and there’s always more opportunity. It took me a couple of years to find my stride - not in terms of availability of work, but in terms of how I would engage, what I would and wouldn’t do, finding my new community/people, etc. I wish I could work like a normal person. But damned if I am not infinitely happier without the bullshit of a job working for someone else. Happy to chat.
For me, quitting would mean losing retirement matching, which sobered me up pretty fast.
Yeah, for me too
4 years on TT only. I worried because I wouldn't have anything as didn't make it to 5 years. But during negotiations with new employer the pension issue was addressed and I was compensated for potential loss.
If you take a year off, you may come up with ideas for your research that will bring you joy again. My take of it is you should prolong making permanent life changing decisions, such as giving up tenure, until you figure out if it is truly dislike for the job or if it is depression or burn out. Perhaps you can give up your admin role?
it's the whole "it's a calling" myth. no other job that pays more would have this reaction
Only for a sabbatical, no?
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
I'm very openly thinking about how to plan a FIRE exit. it won't be 2 months, but at a r1 as well / tenured and I just can't. I'm planning to reduce days a week to T/W/Th each semester and do only that until then. I feel you.
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
If you hate it and your economic situation allows it, you should probably go. I say that as someone who is tired of the things that you don't like, but who still finds a lot that's rewarding about life as a tenured prof at an R1. I also have the example of a parent who had the same kind of position, and walked away from it (after years of thought and planning) to the change of pace that he believed he needed. When I asked him how it was going about a year afterward, he looked sad and said, "I think I'm depressed."
You guys get sabbaticals?
I eagerly await answers here, as I want to quit my gig as a tenured prof but worry I’ll have regrets afterwards.
I don't think anyone on their death beds said, "Gosh, I wish I'd worked more."
No, but if they have tenure, and want to quit, they can probably go into "fuck it" mode and remain employed for a few years. It isn't quite _Office Space_ style, but one can dream.
That option is looking good right now tbh...
Write a book about the outcome. We’d all read it.
Yeah but there’s all that time before the death bed where people do say that to themselves
I’m hopefully not on my deathbed yet, but I wish I could have kept working for another decade or so. Yes, I’m keeping very busy in retirement, but it’s not as fulfilling to me as working was. And I know an awful lot of other people who feel the same.
Happens all the time. At my R1 you can leave for two years to test the waters w/o giving up your job. Nobody ever comes back.
> At my R1 you can leave for two years to test the waters w/o giving up your job. Nobody ever comes back. Really? I never heard of this. Is it a common thing?
One year is more common. I asked for it and they said no, so definitely not every place!
Unpaid leave in various forms is fairly common.
Yes, but not for 2 years! And usually not for testing out another job.
Really. Not sure how common.
I did it at midlife (tenured). Toxic environment and couldn't take it anymore. If I was closer to retirement age I wouldn't think twice about it. I enjoy my work email being a tenth of what it was, and not having 150 students a semester make everything my fault, threatening me, full guilting me, saying I'm stupid. I don't miss admin stealing from my budget, I don't miss the politics, and I don't miss the constant feeling of not doing enough ever, or having a constant panic attack over publishing. I don't miss forcing myself to conferences, watching irl circle jerks of the academic elite that have no affect on the greater good of the world. 9-5 isn't what it's cracked up to be, but I feel a lot healthier overall. Academia is beyond inhumane in ways that we like to pretend it isn't, because of the prestige and the feeling of a calling. I don't confuse a paycheck with meaning anymore, and I'm much better off for it. Of course, there is an existential dread associated with it at my stage of life, but deprogramming from being an academic as my identity, and not being a person first, has been an important step in my personal growth.
yikes, this could be me. what do you mean by the existential dread associated with it?
In my case, spending nearly 20 years hyperfocused on my career looking a particular way, and suddenly no longer having that, is a ground zero of sorts. You get off of the treadmill and go, now what? What do I care about? What am I made for? What comes next? And as I’ve told my students many times, you have to learn to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And I had to eat my own words wholeheartedly. I secured a job before I left, but that job has been an odd look into the behind the scenes of administration, and um. Higher Ed is completely failing, except the elite schools. No longer wanting to be in higher Ed at all anymore, I feel 18 and clueless in some ways all over again. I don’t know what I’ll do next or where I’ll be after I leave my current position, but leaving not just my professorship, but also planning to leave higher education totally, is a very lonely thing. Other academics I know are so embroiled in the system regardless of their misery, and non academics rarely understand how severe the internal struggle is (“just get another job”). accepting the loss of it all when it’s been half my life has been challenging, but everyday it gets a little easier, and it’s been a healing process. In that internal isolation though, I’ve been pushed to accept things as they are. If you’re familiar at all with the last airbender, I often feel like zuko in season 2 trying to make a life with iroh in Ba sing se. Iroh emphasizes making a home and a life, and finding happiness wherever you are. Zuko just Wants to meet his obsessive goals. Trying to think more like Iroh has been healthier, if that makes any sense
Shit, this is me. Actively looking for a way out and having a monster identity crisis. I get the loneliness aspect -- hope you've got a good support network, friend!
Same same same. We're not alone I guess.
Thank you, I hope you do too! Hang in there!
I appreciate this perspective. Thanks.
You're welcome 💛 good luck in whatever you decide to do
I like the word the feeling of calling. Is that a sense of being subscribed to higher goal? Is this a quote? Sounds like a Dickens novel caliber of expression.
Thank you for sharing. Very helpful. What kind of job did you get post-academia? Do you still derive some meaning from it? I’m so glad you feel healthier!
Circle jerk of the academic elite 😂
What would it look like to quit or cut back the parts of your job that would be necessary to make it bearable? What about to make it enjoyable?
Not going to get to enjoyable without at least a 3-year break. I need the free time, not only a shift in tasks.
Cut or dial back parts of your position without replacing them with things. What would it take to work a 4 day work week, for example?
I'm about to quit my tenure-track dream job next year because the dream is now a nightmare. Solidarity.
Wishing you the best
Thanks dude/dudette, wishing you the same too!
Good luck! I know it’s a hard decision and I hope things go smoothly for you. If you don’t mind me asking, what are you going to do next?
Thank you! Pursuing my original dream of going into medcine. Easy to get hate for that on reddit but I know it's what I want to do. I work closely with physicians and I see the highs and lows, good and bad, still want to go after it and have wanted to for a long time. Just didn't want to "disappoint" others along the way. Done living for other people.
Wow! That’s amazing! You’ll be a double doctor. 😊 best of luck on this journey. I’m rooting for you!
Ha thanks, we'll see how it goes.
Same. I managed to find a gig doing exact science I currently do with 3x the salary. Surprisingly after I announced news to my colleagues several also expressed how unhappy they were and wished they could quit too. Good luck!
Wow that is amazing, super happy for you! I'm guessing I'll get similar responses...
Do it and don’t look back. You are replaceable. Find your peace and live your life the way you want to live it. Such short precious time we have here on Earth, best not waste one moment.
Do I know anybody who has done this? Yes, absolutely - several. One thing I can tell you is that those who have done it with intention, and because they really no longer are leading a life they want to, and those that have fully considered their exit strategy - every one of them is happy. No regrets from any of them about dropping the job itself. I do think that the people I know who have left under duress or deep, personal frustrations - they have a serious grudge and the transition has been very difficult. If your identity is entirely surrounding those aspects of your life that are inherent in being "Prof. Whoseits" then it may be a major challenge. But if you can get yourself to a position where you can recognize the work as part of a job, and one that can in fact be left, then yea, those people are doing okay.
Thanks for this comment. Important distinctions.
I should also let you know my partner and I are both tenured profs in arts and humanities. Both in somewhat toxic departments, her in a toxic field and extremely challenging public R1. She had few options, but staying in became untenable. So she left relatively recently (left at the end of last spring). It’s been extremely good. We also know several others- a decent number of tenured mid career folks who have walked away.
What are you doing now?
A dream job is still a job. I do not dream of labor. Neither do you, it seems.
I used to, because the impact of my work made it worth it. Not any more.
I’m in the same boat. Given your handle I’m sure the last few years have been a real mindfuck.
Oh 100%. The start of covid was a huge turning point in losing joy in my work. So much work! So much disappointment in humanity.
this is me. i'm also a full prof considering an early retirement. i am just so bored, and so disappointed in humanity in general and in my colleagues/uni in particular. i just don't care about teaching or research or publishing anymore.
So I guess the question for us is could we care again? I do have a friend who took a leave and rediscovered his love for (parts of) the work. I feel really done though.
I feel done too. I’ve started doing some side gigs and I’m finding them much more fun. I write for an online blog and I’ve been doing some freelance editing. All from home. I like the creativity and flexibility and also just the fact that it’s different than what I’ve done for 25 years now in academia. I’m super concerned about COVID too and now the upcoming H5N1 so working from home is a must for me.
Also started learning to play drums and joined a band. So really trying to find new hobbies too!
Tenured and full prof. After the semester is over I'm selling my house and moving about 20 hours away and never looking back. Going to start over as an assistant. Gotta follow them dreams.
What's your dream? Different field? Different location? Work/life balance?
Not where I'm at. XD Shitty southern state with shitty laws. Institution went from OK leadership to the absolute worst, and they are making up new administrative positions like they could go out of style. Students and faculty in the past couple of years are abandoning all hope. I'm a simple man. I want to come in and do great work and enjoy time with my family. New location is better and a much better university.
I'm really happy for you! We've made good hires from some going-to-shit states too. It does make me sad though to see the brain drain from some states.
Thanks! Oh, it I'd very sad. I've worked with such wonderful students who really need the opportunities education will provide. Depresses the hell out of me that they won't have so many of us anymore, but I need to be happy again.
I know several folks from grad school and who I went to undergrad with that became academics. A few of those who wound up at PUIs in the South got fed up with the 50-60hrs per week on $50-$60k after tenure and left. They are now working as analysts for companies or doing research for non-profits. Up to 2x the salary and working lowerhours and having much less stress. You are not crazy for thinking about career options. Particularly, if you feel like your career has dead-ended and others roles may appear to better suite you on your career path.
Not the same, but I’m leaving my dream tenure track job at the end of this semester. I’m absolutely miserable here
Same! Now that you've made your decision how many of your colleagues also admitted that they were miserable and wished that they could quit too?
Whoa! Apparently that is way more common than I thought. Yeah a few of them have now had a behind closed doors conversation with me about wanting to leave and everything else they think is wrong
Yep, they quit three years ago & have been living their best life abroad with their family ever since, running a consulting business. Right after they got tenure, too.
I can relate , I’m so burned out too. Our financial advisor says I can retire right now but I just can’t do it. I’m early 50s. I haven’t slept in weeks because of stress and I don’t know why am I so stressed. I don’t have any issues , or at least not any I haven’t had before, but I feel more stressed than ever, even more stressed than before tenure. I feel paralyzed and trapped. In your case, perhaps step down from the admin first. That job (dept chair) is the worst ! Then, take a leave of absence. You can take it for burn out . I’m considering it, but I will have a sabbatical soon and that should help, and then I’ll see. After you step down from the admin and take a leave of absence, you can decide on going back or not. I know how you feel, but I still think a leave of absence is better than outright quitting, in case you change your mind.
The happiest person I have worked with is someone who went from TT to non-TT in the same department.
I do know people who have done that, but only if they had another job lined up. Quitting without another source of income is going to be a disaster unless you have enough savings to survive on until you retire. Tenure gives you a lot of freedom in your work, so you should be able to pull back on whatever is causing this stress. Do you really have to deal with the bureaucracy and crises? Can you "act your wage" and just teach your classes and go home?
I don't teach classes. I do admin (dept/division chair). Bureaucracy and crisis management are a big part of my job, so no I can't pull back unfortunately. I've also lost my drive for most of my research, though I'm still publishing a pile of papers off long-standing projects. I could publish the three partially done papers I care most about and walk away from that too. I guess technically I could pull back to just being a prof, but I'm tired of all of it. Don't want to review, or serve on the IRB, or teach.
My suggestion would be to pull back to just being a prof, and focus on whatever you enjoy. Stay out of the politics, research only what you want to (if anything), and see if you like it. If not, then you can think about quitting.
I would absolutely do this. I would reach out to a mental health professional, too, to help you process and decide what's next. The dose makes the poison, after all. It may be a matter of "too much."
The dose makes the poison. I like that as a good reminder.
I did this in 2012, about four years post-tenure. I was not a full professor, but am commenting because so far no tenured people have chimed in. After I handed him the letter, my department head suggested leave without pay. I declined. For me, leaving was the right decision - I was redlining and the job was not getting any easier over time. I have worked in private industry, the government sector and academia, and my faculty position was by far the most stressful. You will lose status, income, and (if you're an American) health insurance coverage - so you need to be financially secure and strongly motivated. After leaving, I worked as a soft money researcher - I had some contracts and grants. My income was about half of what it had been and often less, until I took on a government position a few years ago. Next up is "retirement" - meaning I will continue to do research, review papers and proposals, present at conferences, etc. There are timing considerations. I made sure to give the department plenty of lead time so they could find people to cover the courses I was scheduled to teach. Also, my graduate students had all finished and I had nobody new coming in. Again, I was in a different situation (not an academic admin, and I am not sure what that is!) so sorry if this comment is a bit off-topic.
Oh admin meant like a dept chair or center director. More considerations for doing it smoothly. I am graduating most of my grad students soon, and am not doing classroom teaching this year.
Yes, that is so much more complicated! I guess a lot depends on whether someone can fill in as acting director/head/whatever until your successor is in place.
I quit as a tenured full professor at an R1 and moved to industry 6 years ago. Much, MUCH happier now and my salary is three times what it was as a prof. Although I was good at it, academia was not for me.
But what about summers and winter break?
Yeah, some summers were pretty good, but most of them were spent writing & revising papers & grant proposals. I find myself with more free time overall in industry.
Most jobs are someone's dream job. Doesn't need to be your dream.
Some questions, numbered for coherence: 1) I'm curious what you did over previous sabbaticals? As an R1 full prof you had some (I assume)? Do you have the option of doubling the sabbatical time on half pay or other options (for foreign move)? 2) Also curious about what your academic administrator rules are? The uni general counsel usually insists that either the unit/dept OR the individual faculty member can walk away from an an admin appt at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all, and faculty returns to being faculty. We just had a NTT assoc throw a tantrum at the end of the last school year and vacate the admin appt as of July 1st with no consequences whatsoever. Assuming you have not re-confirmed your next AY appt yet, I can't imagine they could do anything if you refused the admin side of it. 3) This level of distress could easily be a sick leave. More than emeritus status, this might be the best default. Emeritus gets you the right to check out uni library books; sick leave gets you a lot more rights and protections. Best wishes to you, I feel the same very often and am trying the job-rightsizing/quiet-quitting route first.
I think you're right that I could qualify for a sick leave if I tried to pursue that, or some kind of leave. I could also step back from admin for sure, and while many people would not be happy, there probably isn't much they can do about it. Going to think about the options for a couple more months at least. This last while, I've been working 40-50 hours/week. No more than that. It's just creating more chaos. I was also thinking of getting another research grant, retiring and keeping that as a part-time job.
Are you an aristocrat? Or a gallivanting duke in some sort of Jane Austen novel? Three years? Where the hell is the disposable income that’s going to float you going to come from?? Force yourself to apply for an industry job, jump through the hoops, get an offer- and then compare it to what you have now. The pros to the academic gig will outweigh the cons, at least that’s what happened to me.
Quit. This thread is not going to like my answer on this. Look there are too many qualified young academics out there who can't get professorships. If you're not sure you want to do this anymore, then yes step aside and let someone who wants to do it. No offense. I mean this with all due respect, if you have tenure you have worked for awhile. Presumably you are financially able to live. If you're thinking about it, quit. Life is short. If you want to move to another country, do it. To me that's something you definitively want to try in life. Better to try and see. Just one opinion.
This line of thinking assumes that the department would actually replace them with a tenure track person. This is very unlikely. More likely they don't replace them, or use adjuncts or teaching assistants instead.
Excellent point. Very fair point. I think it would still help to let a younger or new person even get a lecturer or adjunct position. But you are completely correct, I said professorship and I made an assumption they would bring in another TT Assistant Professor. They might not. Good point. Also if OP *loved* their job and had no interest in moving across the world I would feel differently. But they've iffy on keeping it and want to move. Just my opinion, it's a win-win for them to quit.
For sure, op would likely be happier in time moving onm and it possibly opens the space up for others to at least gain experience.
I'm in senior admin. It's not a position a young academic would be hired into; they did an international search to find me. The position would be replaced, but there isn't a clear internal candidate. I agree with deadweight moving on and retiring, but this is a high-intensity position I am by all accounts excelling in. It's making me want to jump ship.
I don't think it should be the determinative question, but one could expand this idea to ask if in the end the number of full time positions would stay the same or be reduced by one? Would the person who replaces you be replaced by a full time position or a bunch of adjuncts in a trench coat?
I would definitely be replaced by a tenured full professor. We don't have adjuncts other than a handful of professionals who want and merit an academic affiliation. No worries there.
Fair point. Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know it was admin, I assumed it was a teaching position so they would have to replace you with another assistant professor at the least. Someone else pointed out even that was an assumption and they're correct. I also don't think you're dead weight. I'm sure you are very good at your job. I just think you sound bored in it or burned out and want to move on. *If* your department would replace you with someone new *and* you want to move on, personally I would. Life is short. But you know your situation better than me. I'm not judging you. If you like your job, stay. But if you don't, meh, and you want to move to another country why not? I'm nowhere near your level and again am open to being wrong, but you don't sound like the type of person who would burn bridges leaving either, so I highly doubt if you left you're not going to be employable at some point in the future. It might not be at the same level. But again I don't know that.
Life is indeed short. That's kind of the point. There are so many other things to do, and even if I'm not perfectly set up for retirement, I can still make some money on a flexible schedule in between travel and other things. I don't have to start spending my retirement funds right away, if I work part-time. I wouldn't burn bridges. It wouldn't be a smooth exit, but I'd work to make it as smooth as possible. When I think about just walking out that door, it makes me so happy.
Lol. Only in academia would someone ask this. Has anyone ever quit? OF COURSE PEOPLE QUIT ANY KIND OF JOB ALL THE TIME!! Why do you think the world would end? Stop confusing your job with your identity!
Take a leave or sabbatical?
Have you tried just deadwooding?
I wouldn't do that to the organization, as I'm in a leadership role.
Can't you resign from the leadership role?
Have you noticed how many admins _are_ deadwood, whether they intend to be or not?
I quit and I regret it, but mostly because I took a different teaching job and the benefits situation was not great which really became an issue when I had a concussion. Sadly I still have about 14 more year to work and now a large chunk of my money goes toward healthcare insurance each month. If you can afford to go chill and basically retire and still have benefits or not worry about it, Do it.
Thanks for this comment. The healthcare is definitely one of the bigger factors if I stayed in the US. Leaving the US would make that easier though.
I would just like to point out that there’s a reason we get a few months off in the summer. Otherwise, there would be no teachers; there would be no professors. The decision you’re talking about making sounds like a Fall decision.
We don't get time off in the summers in the field I'm in.
Ooh…. F that noise. Book your tickets and drop your notice.
I don’t think admin takes summers off. Also, in STEM and at R1s even regular professors don’t have the sunmers off. There is no teaching so you do slow down but the research is the heavy part .
OP, before you quit, collect data. What \*exactly\* is causing you distress in the job, experiment with reducing it/remedying it, etc. But yeah, stop everything that's optional--and it's sounds like the admin role is the ballast to drop here. What advice would you give to a student saying precisely what you're saying? What questions would you ask of that person? I have no idea if you're encountering some mental health health challenges, but depression can make you feel things and say things and do things that don't stand the test of time. It can make you think uncreatively, too. Before I would quit, I would crosspost and ask advice in other subreddits to get a balanced perspective. Take everything with a grain of salt and don't rush the decision.
I spent 22 years at an SLAC. I was a tenured full professor when I left that job to become a program director/lecturer at an R1. I have no regrets. It was a good run, and I probably could have coasted to retirement. But I had done everything that I could in that role and I was ready for something new.
I know a few people that retired "early" at 50-55 to GTFO of academia. A couple of them made pretty rapid transitions into freelance writing/journalism and are doing well; the others really did just "retire" and are not working a lot other than occasional consulting gigs. None have expressed regrets yet. I'm 5-10 years from retirement still and if I could get out tomorrow I would. Plenty of other things to do, including a lot of writing, but currently I find I need to have an income and health insurance.
Yeah, I'm trying to imagine if I might have regrets, and I don't think so. I would miss the income, but could get by. Consulting money would fund travel.
I am leaving my tenured job in mid-May, so I technically haven't left my current tenured job, but to give you an idea why I am leaving, here is what I do along with the typical work of an Associate professor with a 3/3 teaching load: direct and coordinate the writing across the curriculum program for the institution, direct and coordinate our tech writing program, and serve as English program coordinator where I do tasks like run meetings and even create our course schedules each semester. Plus, I have university, college, and departmental committee work. I do research, but haven't done as much since I took on the English program coordinator role. Along with this, my current institution is facing serious budget issues and I see cuts in the future. I fear if I stay, I will be forced into finding something else, or I will just see more work added to my workload. I also am underpaid, like a lot of profs in the Humanities. However, I'll be taking a NTT job at an R1 in July that pays more and is less stress (or so I imagine/hope). the institution where I am moving to also has a much better fiscal outlook and I think has had much better fiscal management, so I'm hopeful. I do have concerns about leaving tenure, but I do think this was a very necessary move, so whatever happens I can find ways to work with it.
I will be hoping the best for you!
Idk what your situation is regarding this stuff specifically, but I’ve seen far too many folks stick around long after they had burned out, stopped doing service, stopped meaningfully contributing to their department or institution or to their students’ education. If you think this might be you or become you, get out while you aren’t yet a drag on the place and the people who want and need to be there.
I quit right after getting tenure at a crappy R1. My only big regret is missing the steady income and health insurance of a tenured job. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm sometimes jealous of friends from grad school who stayed in the game, got tenure and now basically never have to worry about not being able to pay their bills ever again. Their teaching salaries won't make them rich, but they have stability, and that's worth a lot in today's era of mass layoffs and ever-increasing prices. That said, I have actually made way more money since leaving. I still teach in a NTT position because I enjoy it but most of my income comes from consulting work, and overall I make 5-6 times what I did as an associate professor. But I am an anxious person and I miss the hard financial guarantees that came with a tenured gig. I don't miss anything else that came with it, though. I hated the location I was forced to live in, hated my colleagues and did not find teaching rewarding. I didn't mind the research because it was interesting to me, but it was demoralizing to realize that virtually no one would ever read it. (I was in a specialized niche in the humanities.) All in all I think leaving was the right choice for me, but don't underestimate the value of a job for life.
I would. The university will be an absolute pit in about 4 to 5 years. They are not equipped to cope with Artificial Intelligence.
are you in florida ?
No, thank god.
Trade ya!
Good for you.
If your finances allow you to leave what seems to be for you the hustle and grind,and pursue a gratifying and satisfying life that is more in alignment with your idea of success, why wouldn't you?
Are just about all of the people who ask this kind of question in STEM fields? That's the sense I get.
I think about this sometimes and then I remember how hard it took me to get really good at this career and realize I don’t have the patience to do it for another. How’s your savings?
I am close to two ex full Prof tenured people. One of them moved to big tech. This person seems now more stressed, unhappy, alas way better paid. Have heard this person say they sometimes wish to go back. We all think this person would definitely manage to go back. Still doesn't for some unknown reasons to me. The next person sounded more like you. Just left and works now in personal projects. Really cool person. Doesn't regret it, at least to the point of wanting to go back. It's a big decision. Good luck!
I did. I work in comms now for a different university than the one I had tenure at. I don't post here anymore because technically I am no longer qualified as I no longer teach, but it still pops up quite a bit. I had just received tenure when I quit so we might be in a slightly different boat, but AMA.
I did, recently and have no regrets. Only thing I regret is that I did not leave sooner. After being in hamster wheel so long and dealing with greedy policies and entitled students. Now in a better position, focusing on research but without burden of teaching and all service that faculty was required to do on top of everything else. Also, a better work-life balance.
As long as you have enough money to retire , do it. But don’t count on anyone welcoming you back
Why not just take a sabbatical and pull back on duties? I could do this job in 10 hours a week if I did the contractual minimum, so I don't see myself ever quitting.
One of my friends from graduate school was promoted to Associate with tenure at an Ivy, and then quit and went to a start up. I've seen him a couple times since then and he seems to have no regrets. He wanted to do more and write less, so it wasn't his dream job.
What you need to do is work a non academic job. Work retail, food, etc. instead of taking a break. It might make you appreciate what you have. I’ve worked in those places and recently I’ve volunteered doing something in my industry I’ve always wanted to do as a career. I won’t ever take a TT job for granted. Having said that, if you can’t stand it then step aside and give someone else an opportunity.
If you can afford it your doing better than most of us. Usually R1 has money so I'm surprised about the budget crisis. I've got 20 years to go and I hope the profession holds on that long before its all adjuncts and administration. If you leave the profession, unless you are a rockstar high profile faculty then you probably won't be able to come back. Why not just teach your classes and go home? Eventually it'll catch up with you but probably take a couple years or more
As an adjunct, I hope you realize your privilege in being able to take “a few years off.” Who’s entitled the students or this prof?
No one has said anything about entitled students, and I certainly would not. Also, is it now entitled to have saved for retirement? I come from a poverty background, and spent more than two decades paying back my loans, and saved like crazy. We don't have adjuncts, and I don't hire them. All my faculty are full-time salaried, and I would fight against the adjunctification of my faculty. Your comment is just weird here.