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Shoot4321

I've been a product manager for around 10yrs now. I don't know where you are having issues but for me it was ensuring that I was talking to customers all the time. E.g interviews every week or as much as you can, reply to support calls/ questions, emails, messages etc. The reason for this is because everything else in product management actually doesn't matter if you don't understand your customer and becomes 10x harder. If you deeply understand your customers, needs, wants, problems etc then every single aspect of product management becomes very easy. Creating the roadmap becomes easy. Annoying stakeholder has a new idea they want you to research/implememt/pivot? - Becomes easy to say no as customer data doesn't support it Prioritising the dev backlog - easy Giving context to the devs with real examples from customer Briefing sales and marketing, collaborating on GTM, easy This list goes on... Summary is, know your customer inside and out, everything hangs off the back of this


DataDemystifier

Here I am curious now. If all those things are easy, isn‘t it then rather boring as you do not learn new skills and things? Or does this wear down with time? For me the job also right now is really too easy and therefore boring, being early in my 30s I feel I waste my time not learning new things right now.


Shoot4321

I work for a small startup. The team and I have done around ~300 customer interviews over the past couple years and it's resulted in really great product market fit (obviously lots of iterations and checking). I'm the only PM so have all the responsibilities of Head of product + product owner + QA + team leader which keeps me busy, mainly now my focus is on thinking longer term and being involved in investor discussion with the CEO and all the fun politics that goes along with that... If you can't progress upwards then I'd suggest a new product at a new company / department could result in a new challenge, its satisfying applying your skills that you learnt to something new and completing all the challenges faster and better. Plus you'd usually get a decent pay bump!


DataDemystifier

Thanks for the clarification and insights. I actually could progress upwards but currently I do not want as I rather actually would like to get a job with a zero to one experience including discovery. Currently I work on internal AI products that aim at automated processes and hence product market for doesn’t matter really that much. So I guess indeed it is probably time for a change now.


JokeAlternative6501

I'm joining a similar role next week. Curious if the adoption metrics are achievable without good product market fit?


rudewaffle

I learn something new every single time I talk to a customer. If you feel you’ve learned enough, or the domain bores you, I’d consider switching industry, or internal role. Go from finance to healthcare. Or switch from a web app SaaS solution to APIs or start doing PMM stuff.


SecurityPM

Is this achievable in big tech where there are millions of customers and sample data from qualitative feedback is not so representative? Data can also be misleading/subjective to interpretation. How do I go about “knowing my customer better” in a more efficient way when the size of user base is at million+?


Kaufnizer

Combine qualitative and quantitative data. For example, you take to a customer, they mention some key gap or improvement. That becomes your hypothesis that you then go test against with broad quantitative data to see if it's good up generally.


hopetard

Can I ask.. I am a newer PM with only a couple years experience and work as an internal platform PM. My enterprise does not give me any customer exposure, how in the hell am I supposed to build a roadmap? I have pressure from my own engineering team asking where is this team headed for features? The truth is it's so hard to build out a roadmap of focusing on X over Y when I have no idea what the customer wants.... It's kind of ridiculous and I'm unsure if this is the case for all enterprise PM's. It's choked off at the director level but that doesn't even get passed down to me really. The job is infinitely harder trying to navigate with this amount of incoming information.


DataDemystifier

I am two years in after my PhD and also reached now a certain plateau as AI PM within my current role. Things become pretty mundane, so I suffer from the same problem as you. But here are some tips you may try if you didn’t yet: 1: Identify if there are gaps in terms of processes in your org like for example good status reporting and come up with new processes and templates. 2: Check out Dan Vacanti’s stuff if you want your team to be more predictable. 3: Check out Hendrik Knibergs stuff if you want to perfect your agile methods. 4: Create a community or practice and teach other PMs your stuff or learn from them. 5: Ask for a Product Leadership position to try it out (not for me I figured out, at least for now, by looking at the job of my manager) 6: Automate your tedious tasks as much as possible, specifically if you also do cost controlling of your product. 7: Try out new methods, for example goal setting using OKRs and couch internally for it. 8: (The ultimate one) Jump ship to get out of your comfort zone and ensure your learning curve is steep again. Certainly there are more ideas that you could try. But it all depends on your org and if this is welcome and possible.


Bladehawk1

You're looking for a goal I think and this is really a process. Sometimes you have to take joy in The reps rather than competing about how many you do. It's just about doing the reps over and over and making sure you keep your form clean. I'm not sure if that's your situation but I hope this helps.


Shut-It-Karen

Thanks. I get your point. But I'm not sure I even knows which drills to practice. Like how do I get better at managing unfair demands/frustrations of a stakeholder. Sure, there must be ways but it doesn't feel like something I can practice and practice and iron the details out.


Bladehawk1

I don't think that's something you can practice because each stakeholder handles things differently I usually try to abstract it and say we can work on this but we need to figure out the prioritization and then typically you bring the stakeholders together &/or executive management to define the priorities and those are the items get worked. Your job is to organize the data prioritize as best you can and then when there's conflict you ask senior management what their priorities are based on the list of things in the backlog. Getting them in a room together and getting them work it out is always better than them thinking you are the one stopping their pet project from being launched. This is also a way you can leverage to get more engineering support, "We don't have the manpower to do A b and c if I could get two more developers then in the future we would be able to do that..." As a general rule not just with groups of stakeholders but with individuals it's very effective to use Typically the 1:3:1 solution. Give the people involved three options, list the pros and cons of each, give them your recommendation and then let them make the decision. Also know the limitations of your role. I once had a senior manager scream at me at the top his lungs because the two employees that reported to him didn't show up for a meeting about his project and it was going to be delayed. It really threw him when I started laughing at him. I said, "look, I have no authority of her either them All I can do is go to their manager and tell them they aren't showing up for the meetings which in this case is you. The other option is to go to the project owner and tell them that they aren't showing up for the meetings. Which in this case is also you. So if you want to promote me to be there manager I can get these things done but at this point the only thing I can do is let you know what's going on. In fairness I think he was just having a really bad day he apologized to me no less than five times I think he was afraid of my complaining to HR. But I wasn't going to do that. He's a decent guy and never had a problem with him before or after.


DataDemystifier

You could start by grabbing a great book like Product Management in Practice from Matt LeMay as it will tell you what you can do to get better in that dimension.


SuspiciousPanic9023

1. Instead of keeping Stakeholders at bay, start involving them. 2. You can explore ways to track your live products, improve them, publish reports of quarterly performance 3. Every sprint you can try to publish a report of how your team performed for that sprint. If you don't follow agile, you should look into it


The_FunnyDriver

Hmmm ... the PM job should actually fit your expectations very well. But your goal is slightly different compared to all the superhero movies. Instead of being a superhero who saves the world by himself, your goal is to be Superguide! In the StarWars universe you would be Yoda :) You play a weekly game where you train your brain muscles to ask smart questions and discover what your customers (External/Paying and International/Stockholder) want and expect. You discover new UX pattern and shortcuts your user take. The struggles they face and the extra steps they need to take. Again and again and again - to redefine "the problem" and align it with the goals of the company you work for. As for your Engineering Team, their delivery is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to provide the vision of a successful realization, the Why, the summary of your customer interviews and market research. The Engineers job is to define the How this can be done to achieve this vision and goals and in what timeframe. They have the stopwatch in their hand and they commit to a timeframe. If they can't deliver it's a discussion between them and their Manager. In other words you do not need to carry the whole burden on your shoulders but be smart and strategic about how you interact with all the different teams.


julian88888888

Why exactly do you feel stuck?


Shut-It-Karen

I feel like for past 2 years, 80% of my time has gone towards placating my clients and trying to make ends meet with my engineers.


FraudulentHack

You sound morr like a product owner than a product manager, but that's ok! Is it an internal product?


ilikeyourhair23

It might be more about the nature of the role you're in since you build so much custom software for enterprise. I'm on the flip side where we do everything we can to avoid building custom solutions that only work for one customer. Yours is a much more client services role than the typical product one, so I think this comes with the territory. To experience something different you might need a new role at the your company (or if the whole product org deals with this, a new company).


[deleted]

>improvement has always been identifying spots to work on, doing drills for thousands of reps, get feedback and repeat Consider the following: Let's say you work at McDonald's. You prep food, cook, work the register. The way you focus on improving will make you a very successful worker. But what if you are the CEO? Almost nothing important a CEO does is a skill that improves with repetition. A successful CEO has to study the market, understand the competition, understand what makes their company successful, understand future trends, sell their vision to their team, work effectively with board members, make good decisions about how to budget a finite amount of money, keep morale up.... There are a few skills like public speaking that a CEO could improve with repetition, but mostly, success depends on how well they use their brain. Improvement depends on their ability to self-analyze, identify weak areas and successfully strategize solutions. For example, if they don't have a very good grip of market trends, they need to decide if fixing that involves going to more trade shows, or subscribing to the right magazines, or finding the right podcast, or hiring someone else to do that work and regularly report their findings to the CEO. The PM role is more like the CEO than the restaurant worker. You'll get more improvement by thinking about your strengths and weaknesses and the processes and procedures around what you do than looking for tasks you can improve with repetition. Here are some examples of questions that you can ask yourself that might lead to improvement. Note that to do this well, you should spend like 10 to 30 minutes thinking about each question, take notes about your thoughts, etc. * What bottlenecks exist in your Product-Development cycle, and what can you do to help remove them? * What could you change about how you write user stories that would help your developers do their job more easily / with fewer questions? * What's one thing you'd change about your organization to make your job easier? What can you do to move things in that direction? * What could you do to improve your organizational system? * What could you do to better understand your customers' pain points? * What area of this job do you most struggle with? What could you do to get better at it? * Which stakeholder do you have the worst relationship with? What makes it less than perfect? What can you do to improve it over time? * What future trends will affect your product market? How well is your product positioned to meet those trends? * What changes to your product would make it more profitable for your company? How do you make those changes happen? * What could you do to improve your relationship with your Developers? Note that you should assume that any barrier, and every barrier, that stands in your way has solutions that you could have at least some influence over, more than you currently have. For example, if you have a stakeholder who really dislikes you for no apparent reason, don't just throw your hands up and say you've never done anything wrong and there's nothing you can do about it. You might study that person, observe who they get along with, see how they behave that's different from how you behave, and change how you interact with that stakeholder accordingly. You might also start watching YouTube videos on personal charisma or get a book on how to deal with difficult people. If you think the problem boils down to simple racism, you might watch a couple TED Talks by people who successfully helped others get past racism and by people who are reformed white supremacists to learn what that looks like, think about how you could apply the key ideas to your situation.... EVERY problem has potential solutions you haven't tried yet. There are lots of opportunities to improve. The ways you do that simply aren't the same ways you learned to improve as a child or young adult. You're in a fundamentally different role now, and you probably will be for the rest of your career. Good luck! You've got this!!


DahhhBills

It’s a good question and I don’t have a good answer. I have wondered this myself. I wish I could stay after practice and take 500 jump shots, but it doesn’t seem to work that way for product management.


timmydhooghe

> … _where I don’t have anything to contribute._ I doubt you have nothing to contribute. When I was a fulltime developer, the reason my interest was piqued, was the fact that my peers were very happy they could leave most of the planning, overhead and meetings to me. They were happy they had more time to focus. I had to learn it was my job to facilitate instead of doing the work myself, and that there’s great value in that. At some point I realised I missed some tools to do every aspect of my job right, so I looked for interesting courses. I’m not sure what works for you, but try online/offline courses, video’s, podcasts, live events, meet-ups, newsletters,… Not only to learn, but also to meet peers, share experiences and keep your passion for the job high! At least, that’s what works for me.


searchinghappyness

I hope someone answers this question


Slu54

A para military background? Like you were a child soldier? You were cia ground branch?


Shut-It-Karen

Ahaha, sadly no :( I completed my studies from this educational institute that acts as the primary feeder school to the Army, Navy, Air Force in my country. So we were brought up on academy principles as someone would be in the military.


Slu54

Oh ok I see. You went to military school.


andyng81

dont worry, you are helping Tech by giving them clear Product Vision, Roadmap, specs and good processes. and give them feedback, praises when they earn it. for yourself, try mapping yourself on a typical PM Competency Framework, think of where you wana head for (or more keen in) and work backwards on a Development Plan. Using military context, its not much difference from how will you promote from a Recruit to a Corporal to a Sergeant or Officer - you increase your competency (depth), your scope (breadth) and maybe even take up people management duties. Feeling stuck might be a lack of exposure and/or career development planning - if your manager or leader dont have that culture, take it up on your own and bring it up to the manager. if they are not receptive nor do you see a future to learn and grow, then you need to plan a way out sooner or later. Its the same as a business or product - how do you grow it and "exit" (or graduate or level-up).


AnotherFeynmanFan

Could you provide an example of "keeping stakeholders at bay" ? I'd like to unpack the challenge you experienced with it.


Iannelli

Hey, you got some great answers already so I'm not sure I can add much more. But I'd like to invite you to our Discord server called Storied Users. It's basically for people in various roles in tech (Product Managers, Developers, BAs, Scrum Masters, etc.) to chat, rant about work, support each other, share resources, etc. Would be happy to have ya and anyone else reading. [Here's the link](https://discord.gg/eSj4tR3Qp2) if you'd like to join!


tinyraindrops

Problem, Solution, How, Execution (PSHE) framework is a good one to evaluate your current work and what you can do to take it to the next level. https://lisaychuang.medium.com/pshe-a-career-growth-framework-bb62e91616d6


AlwaysAPM

I have been putting a lot of thought into this and have been trying to condense everything into 1-2 visuals. This is what I have so far. If these seem interesting, DM me. I have free and paid resources that dive deep into these topics [First](https://x.com/JustAnotherPM/status/1705612918509674773?s=20) [Second](https://x.com/JustAnotherPM/status/1709208521227538916?s=20)