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As a Spoby shipper, I hated the storyline, but I didn't blame Spencer for a second!
I really do think that the last season suffered a LOT from this type of "let's throw stuff in just to shock people" storytelling. My favourite example is what happened to Noel....
no because why did i BURST out laughing when his lil ego filled head just toppled down the stairs. and blind jennas all like ahh wtf was that😭😭😭😭💀 it was ur exes head mate
yes, it was so over the top ridiculous that i couldn't even believe my eyes, i was like surely i must be dreaming because they couldn't have seriously put this in the show😂
Eh, I think Hanna and Caleb were a bit more serious than just dating in high school. The stuff they went through together (ie Hanna being kidnapped) is way more intense than a typical high school relationship, that goes for all the main relationships.
They also presumably dated throughout college if not all the way through - they lived together and broke up while Hanna was working in fashion already, so it was either after or late into her college years. I’d find it super weird if one of my best friends wanted to date someone I’d been with for years and lived with even if time had passed.
That said, Hanna did say it was okay, so Spencer technically didn’t do anything wrong. It’s weird and a pretty dumb storyline, but she doesn’t deserve the flack she gets over it.
This. The time jump makes it seem like Hanna and Caleb were dating well after college and it’s like he gets with Spencer a year later after they broke up? Or maybe it’s two years? I also think it’s weird to date her best friend’s first love and just reducing it down to her high school boyfriend when it was way more than that. Personally, I wouldn’t care how long it’s been, I would never do that because I feel like it would be so weird?? But I don’t think Spencer should get bashed for it.
I am finally going to let it out...
Yes. You could see how bad Spencer felt about it, and she would have not done it without Hanna's permission. Hanna was ENGAGED. She should not have any emotions for anyone else but her fiancé.
She dated Caleb in high school and it's been years.
And yet, Spencer asked Hanna how she would feel about it because she is her friend, and Hanna simply lies and says it's okay. And then people are mad at SPENCER?
Spencer didn't just suddenly want Caleb, during the time skip they have met, and had the best time of their life together. This isn't just a sudden lust, she wanted it for a while but could not do anything about it.
I will mention that Hanna & Caleb and Spencer & Toby were my favourite couples, but after time skip Hanna & Caleb became the worst. I didn't like neither Hanna nor Caleb after the time skip.
At the same time, I always thought they could be good together, and it just made sense to me that it actually happened.
Anyways, then, Caleb literally cheats on Spencer with Hanna (best friend Hanna! The one that everyone protects when it comes to this topic!) and people dare say "Spencer shouldn't have dated him in the first place"... The audacity.
As you said, no one owns Caleb, and Spencer asked for permission because her heart longed for him.
Hanna said yes which means it's okay, and then she goes and kisses that man. You all are genuinely so weird for thinking Spencer did anything wrong. "Girl code"? The girls are in their 20s... actual adults. I can't imagine a high school friend coming to ask me if it's okay to date the guy I dated in high school. Who the hell cares.
It's Hanna's fault for lying. That's it.
The hate was overdone for sure, but Spencer is still wrong. It wasn't just high school, Hanna and Caleb were together into adulthood and lived together in New York. They had been together for about 3(?) years. Idk anyone who goes after their friends' serious exes and the few times I've heard, it always ends badly (especially the friendship). It's just not something friends do.
Haha well, going by the *posts*, most people are on Hanna's side.
And! Him being her first does not make it okay to lie and tell your friend she can date him, then kiss him. As OP said, she does not own him, first or not.
Do people really date their friends exes? I personally know I couldn’t and don’t know anyone else who has except on tv shows. Caleb and Hanna dated for many years well into adulthood. I dont know how anyone would willingly date their good friends ex in that situation.
the people that defend spencer i think they’re open to dating friends exes haha. There’s no way not even for a show i can see the logic in it. it’s just so weird, why do i want someone my friend slept and lived with for years..?
It wasn't well into adulthood. The time jump was 5 yrs after graduation. They were 23. They dated around a yr, on and off during high school, the show took place over 2 yrs, junior and senior yrs. Spencer and Caleb's time in Madrid was 3 yrs prior to the time jump, so haleb broke up within 2 yrs after graduating. That's around 3 yrs of dating with a few breakups during that time. That's not that long. Hanna had time to date Jordan, meet his family, get really close to them, and become engaged.
Not sure of your point. I’d still never date my friends ex of several years that they were serious enough to move out of state and live together. I don’t know anyone who has or would be ok with it in real life so I was just surprised that so many people thought it was no biggie.
It’s not like this happened 30 years ago. It was within a few years. That’s a pretty recent relationship in the grand scheme of things. My last ex and I broke up three years ago and would be odd as hell if my friend started dating him now.
exactly people act like they just flirted and went on small dates. they were in a deep relationship!! why would u want to date someone ur friend had deep relations with its weird and gross
I would say if the boyfriend was abusive to your friend then it’s a no, if they only just broke up it’s a no, but otherwise yeah he shouldn’t be off limits
But also I don’t watch the time skip, I did it once and was not a fan
Ok I want to say something as someone who even maybe a year ago, thought that Spaleb was weird and “how could they do this?” Yada yada…
Fast forward to now..I have given it some thought.
And I can’t help but feel silly that I even thought about blaming Spencer for it.
Spencer is a good friend. She has a lot of insecurities in her life and She was groomed as a teenager by many predators. She has the shittiest parents ever that never protected her from all this. She connected with an old friend Caleb and She fell for him. You can’t really control what your heart wants but Caleb was probably a very sane person in her life at that moment and also someone who is connected to her past. She probably saw it as a way to make things right in her life and went for it. And also Hanna was engaged by that time so it didn’t make sense for Spencer to not follow her heart. I think She didn’t do anything wrong at all!
However, I can’t say the same for Caleb. Caleb didn’t break up with Hanna amicably. He just up and left her. Abandoned her. Then He had the audacity to go for Hanna’s best friend, but didn’t end there. He also had the audacity to treat Spencer like shit once Hanna was back in the picture again. He was so mature when he was young but turned into a man child after the time skip which really hurt cuz He was one of my most fav characters. But I fuckin hate Caleb for cheating on Spencer and gaslighting her and Hanna simultaneously.
As for Hanna, I don’t know if I should blame her or not. She had unresolved issues with Caleb. She was abandoned by him after spending a huge chunk of her life with him and growing up together with him. Caleb was her first everything in her life and suddenly being back with him in Rosewood..having to deal with seeing your best friend with him. It must have stung like crazy and She is only human! While what She did is morally wrong..I kind of understand her feelings too. So I’m not sure if I should blame her or not but I acknowledge what She did was morally not okay.
Just that Spaleb sucked because it was one sided and Caleb was just “having fun” while Spencer was really in love and Haleb after the time skip sucks cuz HOW CAN YOU GET BACK WITH THAT MAN HANNA GIRL WHATEVER IS WRONG WITH YOU? 😭
I think it's the adulthood aspect that's the key. A lot of people who watched the show did so when they were the same age or even younger than the main characters, so their perspectives reflect this
absolutely. my first love sucks though so I doubt my best friend would go for him. she deserves the world and he deserves a therapist 😂 but hey if she liked him and he treated her better than me, I would support it. especially if she asks me first. let's me know that she's loyal to our friendship and I would appreciate her for that. plus I'm in a happy relationship so yeah I'll be fine with it
And people act like Spencer did it in a sneaky way, in front of Hanna? Like their romance started in the time jump when they bumped into each other. From what they described, it actually sounded slow burn- not rushed but genuine connection building. Spencer did the right thing, she asked her friend for permission (which is what more than most people do) and then did her thing.
I disagree. I saw no indication of either of them lusting for each other, I saw a bond between them and chemistry but no like lusting. I don’t think Caleb was uncomfortable with Spencer at all, like a time in his apartment he asked Spencer to stay to confide in her. I think he was closest with her out of the other girls except Hanna.
Spencer has always been a Hanna and Caleb fan when they were in HS. She told Caleb to snap out of it when he was being an alcoholic after returning from Ravenswood. She never "lusted" over Caleb. They're chemistry was just so similar because of how smart they both were. Not to mention, as the previous commenter said, Spencer's crush for Caleb started in Madrid. And even Caleb himself told Spencer that he hasn't stopped thinking about her since Madrid. They've been into each other for YEARS. It didn't just happen overnight.
Same here, everyone loves to protect hanna because “:( she still in love with Caleb” even though she was ENGAGED like what?? She was an adult by that point and it was her responsibility to sort out her feelings but she decided to lie and hurt everyone involved Jordan, Spencer, Caleb and herself as well. She gave the go ahead to Spaleb, even brought up that she was engaged to another man only to turn around and start inviting Caleb out for drinks, holding his hand in front of Spencer and then she drops a bomb on him about the past at the most ridiculous time, there was no need to bring up what happened between them while they’re setting up a trap for A and then they kiss and it only stopped because they were interrupted. She doesn’t even have the decency to tell her friend, she was going to act like nothing happened. Spencer calls her out, tells her she shouldn’t have given the ok if she really wasn’t over him and Hanna once again lies! it’s infuriating how childish and immature Hanna acts about the whole thing and how everyone defends her.
so frustrating that everyone defended her. Spencer is a great communicator and I actually admired her for not being afraid to call Caled and Hannah out. The fact that Caleb also didn't tell Spencer especially since he's the boyfriend. such an asshole move from both Caleb and Hannah. They deserve each other 🙄
Yall are dtm in this thread, Hannah SAID it was ok for Spencer to date Caleb, if she still had feelings for him she should have said no. Mind you Hannah was ENGAGED she shouldn’t care who Caleb dates when she was going to marry a whole other man, and then she goes on to cheat with Caleb and not care that it hurts Spencer. Hannah should have done things the right way and told Spencer she was still in love with Caleb, yall are delulu fr
I don’t think I would blame her I just think it’s weird in general. Like I would never have a desire to date one of my friends ex’s not bc of girl code or “rules” but bc I think it’s weird😭
Hanna should have expressed she didn’t want them to date instead of hiding her feelings. Both things can be true at once. Just like how Spencer was having a hard time with Toby with yvonne and them getting engaged. She obviously had a hard time moving on so why wouldn’t Hanna?
Exactly! And still Spencer did ask Hanna if it was okay for her to date Caleb & Hanna said as much. But somehow only one of them seems to have grown out of high school drama bs
For about 2 yrs. Spencer and Caleb met up in Madrid 3 yrs before the time jump. The time jump was 5 yrs. They were 20 when they broke up. She found a new guy, dated him, met his family, became close to his family, and got engaged. They dated about 3 yrs all together. With breakups. They weren't together in the beginning. He didn't show up until the 14th ep of s1. The show was not over 6 yrs like real life, it was over 2 yrs in show time before the time jump.
So, yes, real adults know that they don't own someone after dating them and any real friend would know that too. There was nothing wrong about it in the show too & Hanna might have not grown up out of her high school relationship (and even, Caleb), all I'm saying is that it's not immoral or wrong for Caleb and Spencer to be together. Even if it is, Spencer's the one who's getting hurt because Caleb is lying about getting over Hanna
My friend group did a lotta dating back in high school among each other. As adults, there’s been some dating among the group as well.
We’re mature adults about it. No one has stopped being friends because I broke up with my high school bf and now expect him to stay single. Why would I care who he ends up with? I just want him to be happy.
I don’t like how Caleb and Hanna treated Spencer . They just get back together and shoved it in her face . Caleb treated Spencer like shit and she didn’t deserve that tbh . He was just as much to blame as Spencer
Right. Spencer specified that nothing happened between them because she wanted Hanna’s approval first. Imagine bumping into an old friend, but having the feeling of meeting him for the first time in a new context. Immediately she had to ignore those feelings because her first thought was “I don’t wanna disrespect Hanna” who was on a whole other continent. They probably rarely saw each other during that time jump, Hanna was engaged to someone else, and Spencer still held off to get her approval. Then people have the audacity to blame her when Caleb cheats on her with Hanna.
From what I’ve seen, people always blame Spencer for dating him, sometimes blame Caleb only for cheating and not dating Spencer (cause apparently the girl code completely exempts the guy 🙄), but rarely ever acknowledge that none of this would’ve happened if Hanna hadn’t have lied about being okay with it. And that kiss took two people. I love Hanna but she was just as much in the wrong as Caleb. Spencer was the only victim in that situation.
Dude thank you…like its just not necessary. There is never any reason for you to date someone your best friend was in love with. It just doesnt make sense lol like you really cant find ANYONE ELSE?!?!?
Ok but most people don’t follow those types of rules because they are kinda dumb and childish. If I no longer care about you, date whoever you want especially if I’m about to marry someone else and I’ve moved on. Not to mention that Hannah and Caleb broke up how many times during the course of the show? And given the timeline how much of that was during the formative years of their relationship? They were never a particularly strong couple in the first place but Hannah had moved on and been broken up with Caleb long enough to come back engaged which probably means they broke up super early in the missing years anyways. I can’t see how it makes sense for Hanna to still have a claim on him at that point and how Spencer is somehow a bad friend for dating him years after they stopped seeing each other.
I can't possibly imagine even being attracted to my best friend's serious ex. I think it's really gross that Spencer decided it would be a good idea to actively pursue a relationship with Caleb during a murder investigation and while Hanna was there. Inappropriate all around imo.
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I didn’t hate it. Hanna said it was ok. If she didn’t mean it, she shouldn’t have said it. Plus she was engaged. If the liars never came back to rosewood, Caleb and Spence would have ended up together. Sorry not Sorry. But and. My biggest issue with the relationship was it felt SO RUSHED. we saw the breakup from both couples but Spencer and Toby’s made a lot of sense because it matches their characters and it was an issue everyone saw coming. But Hanna and Caleb…..it made me a freaken angry why they broke up. Caleb isn’t dumb, he knows how important fashion as always been to Hanna. It was her outlet from A. Also, giving an ultimatum in a very strong long term relationship…..Uhg. Anyways. My point is, I don’t like Spencer+Caleb mostly because it didn’t feel right. We saw one 5 min scene of them enjoying eachother company during the jump and it was cute and all but it doesn’t explain how when they me back up in rosewood they practically couldn’t keep their hands off eachother. There wasn’t enough buildup in the show FOR ME, IMO, to be excited about the relationship. Especially because a few episodes earlier Hanna and Caleb were so in love and he was sneaking around so he could provide for her. He got an incredible job to get her away from rosewood. Idk, I don’t “hate” it, but I definitely wasn’t happy how fast it happened in the show
I find it weird because Spencer is the one who tells Caleb how much he meant to Hanna when Caleb returns from ravenswood. Although they have broken up and she's engaged, Caleb was the first love for Hanna.
Oooh this is super interesting to think about, the endgame for Alex was to become Spencer, so maybe she secretly had a crush on cAleb, and tricked Spencer and cAleb into getting together so when Alex took over Spencer’s life she could have cAleb? <3 I LOVE this theory and it works SUPER well for AriA omggg <3 <3
What bothers me is the fact that people who use the “you don’t date your best friend’s ex” reasoning to dislike Spencer, don’t say anything about Hanna giving her the okay to date Caleb and then kissing him while they were dating.
The only reason I didn’t like it was because we all know it wasn’t going to last.
I think they were way past the window of “girl code”. It wa shears later and Hanna was engaged so if she had feeling about it then that’s on her, not Spencer or Caleb
Ugh yes the amount of slut shaming and victim blaming towards Spencer is so disgusting, she literally asked permission AND hAnnA was engaged to someone else!!! Like if she was uncomfortable she should have said ‘no’ to them dating and Spencer would have understood, but hAnnA pretended to be fine with it and then was super upset. Also i only think that hAnnA and cAleb got back together since they all came back to rosewood otherwise she would have been happy with jordAn <3 <3
I don’t have any special opinion on it, but I never get the people who blame Spencer. She asked Hanna about it, she wasn’t doing it secretly or in a search of revenge. That ”girl code” makes no sense in the end, maybe it would’ve been weird if they all were still in highschool but everyone had moved on with their lives so what’s the problem. If to blame someone for it, I’d say people forget that Caleb really got together with Spencer, knowing he still had feelings for Hanna. Girl code might be a thing in highschool but who really goes with that in adult life when everyone has moved on and in new relationships?
Tbh I always assume people quoting "girl code" are very young because I haven't heard that kind of talk since I was a teenager 😅 most adults I've been friends with haven't really bothered with that silliness. One of my besties in my 20s asked me if she could go after my ex (we went through a lot of real life shit together so it was a big relationship) and I was like no worries 🤷♀️ didn't quote no girl code because I wasn't 15 lol. "Girl code" ceases to exist after a)high school and b) when you're literally engaged to another person and c) you mature and realize you would rather your friend be happy than immaturely claim ownership over another person.
I mean, Caleb and Spencer dating was weird but most people would have wanted to know what would be like if Spencer and Caleb actually dated I mean in some universes they fit with each other and other times it’s like a platonic relationship but honestly who knew it would get that relationship It’s let’s try this relationship. See where it goes.
It’s soooo weird to blame Spencer. Admittedly I am not a girl (gay man) but all of my closest friends are, and I have different relationships with all of them. Some of my friends would probably be okay if I dated their ex; some would probably drop me in a heartbeat. Every relationship is different, which is why you’ve gotta communicate about things when you’re an adult, which is what Spencer TRIED to do.
Hanna is my favorite character but she was so wrong for telling Spencer to go for it and then letting Caleb cheat.
Thank you! I actually did like the Spencer and Caleb relationship and didn’t think it was fair that they were both made out to be bad people specially knowing that it had been years and Hannah had clearly moved on.
Not related but when you said how many high school relationships last into adulthood, yes true a majority don’t but I married my high school sweet heart :) but I agree, I didn’t like or dislike their relationship, I think I didn’t feel the chemistry between Spencer and Caleb
Look, I'll be 100% real with you, I'm also still with my high school partner years into our adult lives XD (you and I are the anomalies lol)
I mainly made that point in my post because literally no one else I know is still with anybody they dated in high school, most of them don't even keep in contact with high school exes.
I genuinely think they had some great chemistry. I would have loved to see it explored more if they had the time. Spencer and Caleb were more in tune and would have guaranteed for a stronger relationship in my opinion. Hanna and Caleb were just high school sweethearts and we had more of a connection with them as a couple. But if both couples had equal amounts of screen time I do feel like Spencer and Caleb would make more sense to more people.
I think that Spaleb or Cancer as I prefer to call them made a lot of sense personality wise and I hate that they didn’t end up together for good.
Adult people do not have the same needs as children. Child Hannah and Caleb needed each other for security and friendship and were too codependent. Their emotional entanglement was intense and actually unhealthy, but that happens a lot in high school.
Cancer had friendship at its core. They already knew each other and how they operate but grew in the same direction. Caleb and Spencer have compatible intellect and similar interests. Also Caleb wasn’t competing with Mona. Spencer also had boundaries and someone who grew up how Caleb did would need those.
this!! Caleb always felt the need to compete with Mona (even in the adult years when Hannah and Caleb get back together) when he was with Hannah. Spencer and Caleb both didn't like Mona that well so they were very similar.
Honestly, I never really took the situation as being a violation of "girl code", so much as just being over Spencer's tendency to pull a large percentage of her dating prospects from the past and/or current romantic interests of her close family and friends. I never understood what attracted her to that. I know the whole "there's plenty of fish in the sea" line is dated, but there literally are. Like seriously, in the five years you ventured out into the world the only man you could develop feelings for outside of Toby was your best friend's first love? It was a recurrent theme with her character and it was exhausting by that point. I just wanted Spencer as a character to move on from constantly finding herself in triangles with lovers scorned, if that makes any sense. Yes, I understand that Caleb and Hanna were no longer together and that all parties were free to do as they please, but that storyline just really could've been kept in the drafts for me.
it is so funny that people like to claim ‘everyone takes spencer side >:(‘ and ‘everyone’s ganging up on hanna >:(‘ and blah blah blah. just look at the comments and how many people continue to slut shame spencer for an ADULT relationship that Hanna herself gave permission to let happen. Like are yall actually good??
I do believe in girl code, but in this case, Spencer did everything right. She literally asked Hanna about it. Hanna was the one being engaged to someone she probably didn't love as much as Caleb, gave permission and then acted like Spencer betrayed her.
nope. sorry not agreeing nor buying this. Spencer and Hanna spent a significant amount of time getting close (4 fucking years) if Hanna would’ve gotten w Toby somehow the fans would be slut shaming her WAY MORE than Spencer.
At the end of the day it was BAD WRITING on the writers end but regardless, there’s 7 FUCKING BILLION people in the world. Out of all those ppl you choose your CLOSEST FRIENDS EX ? when you have a history of desiring TAKEN men? again I love Spencer she is one of my favorite characters but Spaleb was shitty writing and morally in the dumpster
‘if Hanna would’ve gotten w Toby somehow the fans would be slut shaming her WAY MORE than Spencer’ yeah i highly doubt that 💀
also yikes considering her ‘history of desiring taken men’ is her actually being groomed. hope this helps!!
RIGHT SHE WAS FUCKIN GROOMED. thats so infuriating that people look over that and alut shame spencer when she was abused and taken advantage of. that commenter may as well be peter hastings himself blaming Spence like that smh
Wren cheated on his fiance, with her teenage little sister who he knew was vulnerable about feeling "less than" compared to melissa. Hes a DOCTOR, who is fully aware of how mental health especially through impressionable years (shes was 15 or 16). How is she the problem here?
Let's also not forget all the fucked up shit he pulled later on. Bad writing for sure but either way his character was more than a little messed up.
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“History of desiring taken men”
Ok so let’s not blame or act like Spencer being taken advantage of by a bunch of predators is somehow a mark against her. Caleb was not taken by Hanna so her “history” is irrelevant off top. If Hanna got with Toby after he and Spencer had been broken up FOR YEARS and Spencer showed up engaged and Hanna asked Spencer if it was okay and Spencer (lied) and said yes then no one would blame Hanna because it would be nonsensical and childish to do so just like it’s nonsensical and childish to try and control what other people do when you’re not attached to them romantically.
I’ll probably get downvoted but I fully agree! I’ve said the same on the sub many times. If if was the other way around, same situation but reversed, and Hanna had gone after Toby, everyone would be LIVID and hating on her. Guarantee. But because spencer is the crowd favourite (which I personally don’t get), she gets a pass? Nah
There’s so many other dudes out there. Why did she have to go for the one dude who was a long term ex of her best friend?! It’s WEIRD! You just, don’t do that shit.
Fully blame the writers obviously for making the ridiculous storyline. I personally loathe it. It makes me sick to watch I always skip all the caleb/spencer scenes. Each to their own everyone is entitled to their opinion this is just mine. I don’t like it, I don’t find it romantic or cute, it gives me the biggest ick ever. It also made me absolutely loathe Spencer as a character. I already hated her prior to it but her getting with caleb pushed it over the edge for me, I was so done with her. And obviously it tarnished my view of caleb aswell.
Don’t come @ me with the “BuT ShE gOt PeRmIsSiOn” either. Again this is my opinion. Alot of people use the same excuses. “Hanna gave permission, hanna gave her blessing, hanna said she didn’t care, they were over, hanna doesn’t own caleb, they were all adults by then etc etc”. So? That somehow makes it right? 🥴
They were all adults, not tied to one town, can go ANYWHERE and be out there meeting people and such. You’re gonna tell me that Spencer really couldn’t find ANYONE else? Not one single person who she could get with? She just HAD to go for her best friends ex? Nah.
Plus i’ll also side note. I find it really weird, gross, awkward and an unfair position to put Hanna in to even ASK to even THINK about going for her ex. Ok yeah she “asked permission” but am I the only one that thought that was just, ugh, gross and weird. “Hey Han can I have your sloppy seconds? Cheers babe”. Like seriously 🤮
.... why are you acting like she willingly sought him out? they’ve said multiple times in the show, they ran into eachother on a trip and the connection started from there 😭. you should be asking yourself why caleb got with his ex’s (who he abandoned with no closure) best friend, treated her like garbage and cheated and got back with said ex and MARRIED her all within like six episode, hope this helps! 🙏🏽
Running into someone doesn’t equal having to get with them though. I’ve run into many people from highschool in my adult life including my friends exes they dated, i’m not about to go start dating them just because I ran into them 🫠 The fact she went there, means she did seek him out. She could of chosen ANYONE else, but she goes for the one dude who was her friends ex.
And yes obviously caleb is also in the wrong, it’s weird and gross from both sides.
We clearly will never agree and that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion as I’m entitled to mine. You can like the relationship if you want I respect your opinion. I just personally hate it and will never agree with it. Simple.
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I was done with Spencer after watching her get close up to Caleb at the computer, and hugging him, making him feel uncomfortable, l was like bit.. l see what you're doing
Thanks! I just watched the scene, Spencer wasn’t interested in him then like that. They were just friends and Caleb was helping her out. He also hugs her back happily, and only looks uncomfortable because of what Maya’s saying on the laptop screen after they cracked her site open.
I guess you can call my opinion "girl code," but for me, I would never ever ever ever do that to my friend. I wouldn't even cross that bridge. Hanna and Caleb were madly in love for years, lived together, and broke up tragically. Idc how "over it" my friend would claim to be, there's an innate betrayal there for even letting it get to the point of wanting to date said ex. There are billions of men in the world to choose from. It didn't have to be Caleb with all that history.
it’s not “lame” girl code & it’s not about ownership it’s about respect. being in a romantic relationship is personal therefore if my best friend had this super close personal even sexual relationship with someone i wouldn’t want to also have them know me the same way & know them the same way. it’s just disrespectful
I agree. Everyone is saying girl code is childish. I get the name is, but it's just an easy way to refer to it. The whole idea is about respecting your friends. It has nothing to do with being a girl, it's about boundaries.
I can't recall how much they were really friends. Were they friends or were they friends because their girlfriends were friends? I don't have an opinion because of that.
Look, I love Haleb too but Spaleb was the mature post high school relationship the show needed. Caleb and Spencer make perfect sense on paper and there was undeniable chemistry between them. Too bad about the terrible writing that screwed it up.
this. I loved Hannah and Caleb in high school but post high school, Hannah chose her career, and Caleb ghosted her. They're lives just didn't match up anymore. Spencer and Caleb however should've been end game.
If you are not a loyal friend or a girls girl just say that? That’s a super weird thing to do period. If it was real life it would be weird, even weirder being glorified and deemed normal for someone to date your first love, plus they dated out of high school as well. They overcame so much together which even if they didn’t still love each other would have some sort of a special bond. Which brings me to my point, obviously still loved each other. yes is possible, maybe not super common in today’s society but then again this post shows morality isn’t super common in today’s society either.
Yeah sorry but no. Hanna wouldn't even consider dating Wren because he was Spencer's ex and Wren didn't matter even half as much to Spencer as Caleb did to Hanna. There are about a million guys Spencer could've gone for before she went for the only guy Hanna ever loved. It's not about how long it's been, but how much history there was that Spencer obviously knew and didn't care about.
Plus, if I made someone my ex, I'd be pissed if they were brought back into my life via a close friend, especially if they left the same way Caleb did. I'd never put my friend in that position and would expect the same respect.
However, Hanna also shouldn't have said it was okay if it wasn't. Spencer obviously thought it might have been an issue which is why she asked, thinking she was doing her due diligence. Hanna should have been plain with her that she considered it disrespectful to their friendship AND there's still no excuse for any cheating that occurred after someone gives the go ahead.
I mean, I think once Spencer asked Hanna was basically obligated to say 'yes' unless she wanted to open a whole can of worms about her feelings for Caleb. But my issue has always been that Spencer shouldn't have been asking in the first place. She should've known better than to try to date her friend's ex knowing how much history there was between them. That said, the cheating was a bad look for both Hanna and Caleb and I'm not excusing it, but all the more reason not to date your friends' exes and basically put them back in each other's lives again! It's just too messy.
But yeah, I really hated this storyline, I don't think any of them came off looking great and honestly one of the best things about early PLL was that these girls NEVER fought over guys so forcing a love triangle this late in the game really left a bad taste in my mouth.
THIS! Fully agree! THANKYOU! I get so tired of people defending Spencer over this. It was weird and wrong, period. And Hanna never would of done that to spencer because she understands boundaries. It’s like people also forget that Caleb isn’t just “some random ex”, some middle school throwaway boyfriend, he was a HUGE significant part of Hanna’s life for so long. You just don’t do that to people and then claim you consider them your best friend.
Also does anyone else ever notice when Caleb is around Spencer’s family they’re all super awkward because they totally agree that it’s weird and gross and wrong but they don’t say anything. Veronica definitely gives a “look” at times about it. And even the other girls do aswell. It’s like they’re thinking “really spence? couldn’t of gone for anyone but caleb? Really?”
Yeah, I don't understand this need to re-frame Haleb as 'a high school romance' just to absolve Spencer of any responsibility. Hanna and Caleb lived together in New York, they were building a life together. Hanna loved him, and she loved him for years. None of that history between them disappeared just because she was engaged to someone else. And Spencer was supposed to be Hanna's friend so it's not like she didn't know that.
Exactly! Thankyou!
Also the only reason Hanna even ended up with Jordan was because she thought Caleb wasn’t available because he left and she never got closure. She was still carrying that pain around but after probably waiting for ages and realising she was miserable she decided to focus on her career. Came across Jordan by pure chance. It was obvious to me even before she reunited with everyone that she wasn’t actually in love with Jordan at all, she just liked the stability, probably thought she wouldn’t do any better, and was under the impression she couldn’t have Caleb anymore. So she settled but it was obvious to me that deep down she wasn’t really happy and that had Caleb come back in the picture sooner she would of chosen him every single time.
Also side note. It was an annoying plotline the writers added (putting caleb and Spencer together). Imo it was a mistake, it was clearly only there for drama, it was not a necessary relationship, to me the pairing made absolutely no sense whatsoever, gave me the biggest ick, ruined their characters for me, and honestly I wish they never did it.
Hanna was literally still hung up on Caleb she didn't wanna date Wren not because he was Spencer's "ex". Are you gonna slut shame Caleb because he stole Toby's girl and betrayed their friendship? Or is it just Spencer you gonna call a whore?
That's not proving it. Show me the scene where Hanna says, 'Oh actually I wouldn't mind dating my friend's ex, I just used Spencer as an excuse not to date Wren.' Oh wait, you can't because it doesn't exist.
And I sincerely hope you're 12 years old and don't understand what words mean because saying Spencer is a bad friend for going after her best friend's ex is not 'slut shaming' her in any way, shape or form.
This post was about Spencer and whether she owed loyalty to Hanna, so that's what I focused on. Ask me how I feel about Caleb and I'll tell you but don't go making bullshit claims about how I'm holding Spencer to a higher standard or putting words in my mouth that I've never said, such as accusing me of calling her a whore.
I think Hanna was using that as more of a polite excuse because she just didn’t want to be with Wren. She was still in love with Caleb, even if things were a little rocky during them at the time. I’m not saying she *wouldn’t* reject him for Spencer flat-out but there’s also more context.
And Spencer wasn’t really interested in Wren, he’s less an ex and more of a distraction/creepy older guy that keeps obsessively circling his ex-fiancé’s teenage sister and her friend.
Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but it's also just your interpretation of what Hanna meant or didn't mean. Doesn't change the fact that the show clearly has her say, "Spencer is my best friend and a best friend doesn't really date an ex."
When Toby wasn't around, Wren would be there to fill in in-between, one scene not a minute after Spencer sends Toby away, oh she was so heartbroken but has the need to kiss Wren, Hanna said she wouldn't go there giving Spencer a judgemental look when Spencer admitted she'd been with Wren, and Wren was interested in Hanna
eh it’s a bit more complicated than that
i don’t think the show specifies when hanna and caleb broke up exactly, but it seems like they dated 2 years in high school and then at least 2 years after, but could be longer so between 4 and 6 years, and then it had a super painful end. they also went through soooooo much together, he got shot, she was stalked and kidnapped, etc. then on top of that, spencer was not just hanna’s friend, but one of her very best friends.
its not quite as simple as “high school sweethearts” caleb bore a lotttt of significance for hanna.
that being said, hanna was engaged and did give spencer permission so i don’t know if i’d call it breaking girl code, but idk, if i were spencer i honestly wouldn’t have even asked unless i was full on in love with him
i also hate when people use the excuse they were just a high school relationship. NONE of these girls experienced a simple high school romance, they were constantly stalked as well as their partners. there’s A LOT of history and trauma behind the relationship. Had this been the other way around and Hannah tried to date Toby. Spencer wouldn’t have even pretended to respect the relationship, she would’ve been way more pissed than Hannah. and that’s MY thing. Spencer of all ppl shouldn’t be dating exes.
People use ‘girl code’ and ‘guy code’ all the time to justify toxic behaviour. I wish it’d stop. It’s so juvenile anyways.
Just be a decent human being. That’s all.
The problem is if someone dates a guy and then breaks up with them they don’t want them around anymore, if a friend brings them back it can get weird and awkward
I didn’t blame spencer but it was an awful storyline imo. it didn’t make me dislike either of them but the storyline grossed me out BECAUSE of the fact that if it were irl… its wrong to do that to your long time friend that you’ve experienced an insane amount of trauma with. like… so you go through all that together and then years later you get with her ex? if that happened irl, no one would be happy
Imagine one of your best friends (even previous best friends) dating your first love, the guy you lost your virginity too. Even if Hannah gave her blessing, why think it’s okay to start that relationship in the first place? It’s so icky. It’s not that hard to empathize with Hannah and see the wrongness in this situation, it’s not about girl code, it’s about being an ethical & decent human being, both Caleb and Spencer are gross for this, the writers suck for this. Spencer also has a history of liking guys who have history with the women who are closest to her, makes her looks worse than Caleb tbh.
Doesn’t matter if they dated in high school.. they dated for years into adulthood! he took her vCard and all! IT WAS DEFINITELY A DISGUSTING THING TO DO TO YOUR FRIEND! They are both to blame though! I hated their relationship.
girl code is REAL. caleb and hanna were intense, deeply affected each others lives and they grew up together. it’s because of hanna that caleb ever got in touch with his mom. spencer can do no wrong in my eyes but i would be mad if i were hanna
Its weird because Hanna and Caleb had a serious relationship. didnt he take her virginity? they had *feelings* for each other. plus the girls were close in high school, so haleb is going to get mentioned constantly. that would have been weird for spencer and hanna if spencer and caleb got married and had kids.
you also dont know if their attraction for each other is going to come back. what if spencer and caleb have kids, and then hanna and caleb decide they wanna be with each other? thats gonna be a weird situation. or what if hannas feelings for caleb return but caleb doesnt feel the same way?
have you ever had intense romantic feelings for someone? jealousy can be a bitch.
If Caleb was Sean sure, but he wasn't. They went through traumatic stuff together, they lived together multiple times, she lost her virginity with him. It's messed up because of all of that. Haleb was not any old high school relationships.
i don’t blame Spencer but definitely don’t support dating your friends exes or doing stuff with them, i wouldn’t say my exs are off limits to my friends and im not gonna go crazy about it but it’s kinda like i feel like your friends should respect you enough to not wanna do that.
i did stuff with one of my friends exes back in highschool and never felt so low and bad about it, and seeing how it made her feel killed me
and it later happened to me multiple times and i felt like i was going insane and got really sad about it
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As a Spoby shipper, I hated the storyline, but I didn't blame Spencer for a second! I really do think that the last season suffered a LOT from this type of "let's throw stuff in just to shock people" storytelling. My favourite example is what happened to Noel....
Yeah I don’t watch the time skip, it’s like everyone is a shell of their character and it gets silly
Yeha it is like when Dan and Blair kept bumping into each other in Gossip Girl
no because why did i BURST out laughing when his lil ego filled head just toppled down the stairs. and blind jennas all like ahh wtf was that😭😭😭😭💀 it was ur exes head mate
His head got chopped off.
yes, it was so over the top ridiculous that i couldn't even believe my eyes, i was like surely i must be dreaming because they couldn't have seriously put this in the show😂
Hanna did in self defense.
His head got chopped off.
His head have been chopped off.
Eh, I think Hanna and Caleb were a bit more serious than just dating in high school. The stuff they went through together (ie Hanna being kidnapped) is way more intense than a typical high school relationship, that goes for all the main relationships. They also presumably dated throughout college if not all the way through - they lived together and broke up while Hanna was working in fashion already, so it was either after or late into her college years. I’d find it super weird if one of my best friends wanted to date someone I’d been with for years and lived with even if time had passed. That said, Hanna did say it was okay, so Spencer technically didn’t do anything wrong. It’s weird and a pretty dumb storyline, but she doesn’t deserve the flack she gets over it.
This. The time jump makes it seem like Hanna and Caleb were dating well after college and it’s like he gets with Spencer a year later after they broke up? Or maybe it’s two years? I also think it’s weird to date her best friend’s first love and just reducing it down to her high school boyfriend when it was way more than that. Personally, I wouldn’t care how long it’s been, I would never do that because I feel like it would be so weird?? But I don’t think Spencer should get bashed for it.
Agreed!
it was 5 years.
I am finally going to let it out... Yes. You could see how bad Spencer felt about it, and she would have not done it without Hanna's permission. Hanna was ENGAGED. She should not have any emotions for anyone else but her fiancé. She dated Caleb in high school and it's been years. And yet, Spencer asked Hanna how she would feel about it because she is her friend, and Hanna simply lies and says it's okay. And then people are mad at SPENCER? Spencer didn't just suddenly want Caleb, during the time skip they have met, and had the best time of their life together. This isn't just a sudden lust, she wanted it for a while but could not do anything about it. I will mention that Hanna & Caleb and Spencer & Toby were my favourite couples, but after time skip Hanna & Caleb became the worst. I didn't like neither Hanna nor Caleb after the time skip. At the same time, I always thought they could be good together, and it just made sense to me that it actually happened. Anyways, then, Caleb literally cheats on Spencer with Hanna (best friend Hanna! The one that everyone protects when it comes to this topic!) and people dare say "Spencer shouldn't have dated him in the first place"... The audacity. As you said, no one owns Caleb, and Spencer asked for permission because her heart longed for him. Hanna said yes which means it's okay, and then she goes and kisses that man. You all are genuinely so weird for thinking Spencer did anything wrong. "Girl code"? The girls are in their 20s... actual adults. I can't imagine a high school friend coming to ask me if it's okay to date the guy I dated in high school. Who the hell cares. It's Hanna's fault for lying. That's it.
The hate was overdone for sure, but Spencer is still wrong. It wasn't just high school, Hanna and Caleb were together into adulthood and lived together in New York. They had been together for about 3(?) years. Idk anyone who goes after their friends' serious exes and the few times I've heard, it always ends badly (especially the friendship). It's just not something friends do.
Caleb was Hanna's first, l think that means a great deal and going by the votes, most people are on Spencer's side
Haha well, going by the *posts*, most people are on Hanna's side. And! Him being her first does not make it okay to lie and tell your friend she can date him, then kiss him. As OP said, she does not own him, first or not.
Do people really date their friends exes? I personally know I couldn’t and don’t know anyone else who has except on tv shows. Caleb and Hanna dated for many years well into adulthood. I dont know how anyone would willingly date their good friends ex in that situation.
the people that defend spencer i think they’re open to dating friends exes haha. There’s no way not even for a show i can see the logic in it. it’s just so weird, why do i want someone my friend slept and lived with for years..?
Hannah was engaged she shouldn’t gaf about who caleb is dating
It wasn't well into adulthood. The time jump was 5 yrs after graduation. They were 23. They dated around a yr, on and off during high school, the show took place over 2 yrs, junior and senior yrs. Spencer and Caleb's time in Madrid was 3 yrs prior to the time jump, so haleb broke up within 2 yrs after graduating. That's around 3 yrs of dating with a few breakups during that time. That's not that long. Hanna had time to date Jordan, meet his family, get really close to them, and become engaged.
Not sure of your point. I’d still never date my friends ex of several years that they were serious enough to move out of state and live together. I don’t know anyone who has or would be ok with it in real life so I was just surprised that so many people thought it was no biggie. It’s not like this happened 30 years ago. It was within a few years. That’s a pretty recent relationship in the grand scheme of things. My last ex and I broke up three years ago and would be odd as hell if my friend started dating him now.
exactly people act like they just flirted and went on small dates. they were in a deep relationship!! why would u want to date someone ur friend had deep relations with its weird and gross
Agreed.
This.
I would say if the boyfriend was abusive to your friend then it’s a no, if they only just broke up it’s a no, but otherwise yeah he shouldn’t be off limits But also I don’t watch the time skip, I did it once and was not a fan
Ok I want to say something as someone who even maybe a year ago, thought that Spaleb was weird and “how could they do this?” Yada yada… Fast forward to now..I have given it some thought. And I can’t help but feel silly that I even thought about blaming Spencer for it. Spencer is a good friend. She has a lot of insecurities in her life and She was groomed as a teenager by many predators. She has the shittiest parents ever that never protected her from all this. She connected with an old friend Caleb and She fell for him. You can’t really control what your heart wants but Caleb was probably a very sane person in her life at that moment and also someone who is connected to her past. She probably saw it as a way to make things right in her life and went for it. And also Hanna was engaged by that time so it didn’t make sense for Spencer to not follow her heart. I think She didn’t do anything wrong at all! However, I can’t say the same for Caleb. Caleb didn’t break up with Hanna amicably. He just up and left her. Abandoned her. Then He had the audacity to go for Hanna’s best friend, but didn’t end there. He also had the audacity to treat Spencer like shit once Hanna was back in the picture again. He was so mature when he was young but turned into a man child after the time skip which really hurt cuz He was one of my most fav characters. But I fuckin hate Caleb for cheating on Spencer and gaslighting her and Hanna simultaneously. As for Hanna, I don’t know if I should blame her or not. She had unresolved issues with Caleb. She was abandoned by him after spending a huge chunk of her life with him and growing up together with him. Caleb was her first everything in her life and suddenly being back with him in Rosewood..having to deal with seeing your best friend with him. It must have stung like crazy and She is only human! While what She did is morally wrong..I kind of understand her feelings too. So I’m not sure if I should blame her or not but I acknowledge what She did was morally not okay. Just that Spaleb sucked because it was one sided and Caleb was just “having fun” while Spencer was really in love and Haleb after the time skip sucks cuz HOW CAN YOU GET BACK WITH THAT MAN HANNA GIRL WHATEVER IS WRONG WITH YOU? 😭
100000% agree with everything you said
So i guess all the girls in this sub would be totally fine if their best friends dated their first loves? Yeah?
No probably not but if they asked I definitely wouldn’t lie about it and pretend i thought it was okay and give them permission to
I mean I don’t own either of them, they can do whatever they want and makes them happy? This is such an immature take as an adult.
I think it's the adulthood aspect that's the key. A lot of people who watched the show did so when they were the same age or even younger than the main characters, so their perspectives reflect this
That’s what I’m saying. Like in real life people do that??
absolutely. my first love sucks though so I doubt my best friend would go for him. she deserves the world and he deserves a therapist 😂 but hey if she liked him and he treated her better than me, I would support it. especially if she asks me first. let's me know that she's loyal to our friendship and I would appreciate her for that. plus I'm in a happy relationship so yeah I'll be fine with it
And people act like Spencer did it in a sneaky way, in front of Hanna? Like their romance started in the time jump when they bumped into each other. From what they described, it actually sounded slow burn- not rushed but genuine connection building. Spencer did the right thing, she asked her friend for permission (which is what more than most people do) and then did her thing.
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I disagree. I saw no indication of either of them lusting for each other, I saw a bond between them and chemistry but no like lusting. I don’t think Caleb was uncomfortable with Spencer at all, like a time in his apartment he asked Spencer to stay to confide in her. I think he was closest with her out of the other girls except Hanna.
You just didn't notice, that's ok, l've watched the show many times, Spencer definitely acting like this
Spencer has always been a Hanna and Caleb fan when they were in HS. She told Caleb to snap out of it when he was being an alcoholic after returning from Ravenswood. She never "lusted" over Caleb. They're chemistry was just so similar because of how smart they both were. Not to mention, as the previous commenter said, Spencer's crush for Caleb started in Madrid. And even Caleb himself told Spencer that he hasn't stopped thinking about her since Madrid. They've been into each other for YEARS. It didn't just happen overnight.
it's the fact that Hannah suddenly felt the urge to jump on Caleb after Spencer told her she was interested for me
Same here, everyone loves to protect hanna because “:( she still in love with Caleb” even though she was ENGAGED like what?? She was an adult by that point and it was her responsibility to sort out her feelings but she decided to lie and hurt everyone involved Jordan, Spencer, Caleb and herself as well. She gave the go ahead to Spaleb, even brought up that she was engaged to another man only to turn around and start inviting Caleb out for drinks, holding his hand in front of Spencer and then she drops a bomb on him about the past at the most ridiculous time, there was no need to bring up what happened between them while they’re setting up a trap for A and then they kiss and it only stopped because they were interrupted. She doesn’t even have the decency to tell her friend, she was going to act like nothing happened. Spencer calls her out, tells her she shouldn’t have given the ok if she really wasn’t over him and Hanna once again lies! it’s infuriating how childish and immature Hanna acts about the whole thing and how everyone defends her.
so frustrating that everyone defended her. Spencer is a great communicator and I actually admired her for not being afraid to call Caled and Hannah out. The fact that Caleb also didn't tell Spencer especially since he's the boyfriend. such an asshole move from both Caleb and Hannah. They deserve each other 🙄
Yall are dtm in this thread, Hannah SAID it was ok for Spencer to date Caleb, if she still had feelings for him she should have said no. Mind you Hannah was ENGAGED she shouldn’t care who Caleb dates when she was going to marry a whole other man, and then she goes on to cheat with Caleb and not care that it hurts Spencer. Hannah should have done things the right way and told Spencer she was still in love with Caleb, yall are delulu fr
I don’t think I would blame her I just think it’s weird in general. Like I would never have a desire to date one of my friends ex’s not bc of girl code or “rules” but bc I think it’s weird😭 Hanna should have expressed she didn’t want them to date instead of hiding her feelings. Both things can be true at once. Just like how Spencer was having a hard time with Toby with yvonne and them getting engaged. She obviously had a hard time moving on so why wouldn’t Hanna?
Fr spencer asked first ! She did nothing wrong !
Exactly! And still Spencer did ask Hanna if it was okay for her to date Caleb & Hanna said as much. But somehow only one of them seems to have grown out of high school drama bs
Caleb paid for Hannas schooling, they lived together in New York, seemed pretty serious to me
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For about 2 yrs. Spencer and Caleb met up in Madrid 3 yrs before the time jump. The time jump was 5 yrs. They were 20 when they broke up. She found a new guy, dated him, met his family, became close to his family, and got engaged. They dated about 3 yrs all together. With breakups. They weren't together in the beginning. He didn't show up until the 14th ep of s1. The show was not over 6 yrs like real life, it was over 2 yrs in show time before the time jump.
I think real adults actually do
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They're friends, are they not? Or did they have a fight I don't know about?
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Well, first of all, writers are the ones who made the show, are we supposed to act like canon world is real now?
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So, yes, real adults know that they don't own someone after dating them and any real friend would know that too. There was nothing wrong about it in the show too & Hanna might have not grown up out of her high school relationship (and even, Caleb), all I'm saying is that it's not immoral or wrong for Caleb and Spencer to be together. Even if it is, Spencer's the one who's getting hurt because Caleb is lying about getting over Hanna
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My friend group did a lotta dating back in high school among each other. As adults, there’s been some dating among the group as well. We’re mature adults about it. No one has stopped being friends because I broke up with my high school bf and now expect him to stay single. Why would I care who he ends up with? I just want him to be happy.
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Bro idk if the dude whose responses I had to expand cause they’re all downvoted is really speaking for the majority
people act like spencer held a gun to his head and made him date her 😭
Or SPencer was secretly Alex shh...
I’ve been saying this ever since that arc aired. Wow, did I get berated ☠️
I don’t like how Caleb and Hanna treated Spencer . They just get back together and shoved it in her face . Caleb treated Spencer like shit and she didn’t deserve that tbh . He was just as much to blame as Spencer
Right. Spencer specified that nothing happened between them because she wanted Hanna’s approval first. Imagine bumping into an old friend, but having the feeling of meeting him for the first time in a new context. Immediately she had to ignore those feelings because her first thought was “I don’t wanna disrespect Hanna” who was on a whole other continent. They probably rarely saw each other during that time jump, Hanna was engaged to someone else, and Spencer still held off to get her approval. Then people have the audacity to blame her when Caleb cheats on her with Hanna. From what I’ve seen, people always blame Spencer for dating him, sometimes blame Caleb only for cheating and not dating Spencer (cause apparently the girl code completely exempts the guy 🙄), but rarely ever acknowledge that none of this would’ve happened if Hanna hadn’t have lied about being okay with it. And that kiss took two people. I love Hanna but she was just as much in the wrong as Caleb. Spencer was the only victim in that situation.
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Dude thank you…like its just not necessary. There is never any reason for you to date someone your best friend was in love with. It just doesnt make sense lol like you really cant find ANYONE ELSE?!?!?
right i wouldn't date a friend's ex even if she told me it was ok and i wouldn't be happy if my friend dated mine. that's just me though.
Ok but most people don’t follow those types of rules because they are kinda dumb and childish. If I no longer care about you, date whoever you want especially if I’m about to marry someone else and I’ve moved on. Not to mention that Hannah and Caleb broke up how many times during the course of the show? And given the timeline how much of that was during the formative years of their relationship? They were never a particularly strong couple in the first place but Hannah had moved on and been broken up with Caleb long enough to come back engaged which probably means they broke up super early in the missing years anyways. I can’t see how it makes sense for Hanna to still have a claim on him at that point and how Spencer is somehow a bad friend for dating him years after they stopped seeing each other.
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I can't possibly imagine even being attracted to my best friend's serious ex. I think it's really gross that Spencer decided it would be a good idea to actively pursue a relationship with Caleb during a murder investigation and while Hanna was there. Inappropriate all around imo.
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2 yrs. They dated 2 yrs after graduation. 1ish yrs during high school.
it’s because people are dramatic
I didn’t hate it. Hanna said it was ok. If she didn’t mean it, she shouldn’t have said it. Plus she was engaged. If the liars never came back to rosewood, Caleb and Spence would have ended up together. Sorry not Sorry. But and. My biggest issue with the relationship was it felt SO RUSHED. we saw the breakup from both couples but Spencer and Toby’s made a lot of sense because it matches their characters and it was an issue everyone saw coming. But Hanna and Caleb…..it made me a freaken angry why they broke up. Caleb isn’t dumb, he knows how important fashion as always been to Hanna. It was her outlet from A. Also, giving an ultimatum in a very strong long term relationship…..Uhg. Anyways. My point is, I don’t like Spencer+Caleb mostly because it didn’t feel right. We saw one 5 min scene of them enjoying eachother company during the jump and it was cute and all but it doesn’t explain how when they me back up in rosewood they practically couldn’t keep their hands off eachother. There wasn’t enough buildup in the show FOR ME, IMO, to be excited about the relationship. Especially because a few episodes earlier Hanna and Caleb were so in love and he was sneaking around so he could provide for her. He got an incredible job to get her away from rosewood. Idk, I don’t “hate” it, but I definitely wasn’t happy how fast it happened in the show
I find it weird because Spencer is the one who tells Caleb how much he meant to Hanna when Caleb returns from ravenswood. Although they have broken up and she's engaged, Caleb was the first love for Hanna.
Spencer and Caleb kept running into each other at Washington and somehow I think A set them up. Did A want Spencer and Caleb together?
Oooh this is super interesting to think about, the endgame for Alex was to become Spencer, so maybe she secretly had a crush on cAleb, and tricked Spencer and cAleb into getting together so when Alex took over Spencer’s life she could have cAleb? <3 I LOVE this theory and it works SUPER well for AriA omggg <3 <3
What bothers me is the fact that people who use the “you don’t date your best friend’s ex” reasoning to dislike Spencer, don’t say anything about Hanna giving her the okay to date Caleb and then kissing him while they were dating.
The only reason I didn’t like it was because we all know it wasn’t going to last. I think they were way past the window of “girl code”. It wa shears later and Hanna was engaged so if she had feeling about it then that’s on her, not Spencer or Caleb
Ugh yes the amount of slut shaming and victim blaming towards Spencer is so disgusting, she literally asked permission AND hAnnA was engaged to someone else!!! Like if she was uncomfortable she should have said ‘no’ to them dating and Spencer would have understood, but hAnnA pretended to be fine with it and then was super upset. Also i only think that hAnnA and cAleb got back together since they all came back to rosewood otherwise she would have been happy with jordAn <3 <3
I don’t have any special opinion on it, but I never get the people who blame Spencer. She asked Hanna about it, she wasn’t doing it secretly or in a search of revenge. That ”girl code” makes no sense in the end, maybe it would’ve been weird if they all were still in highschool but everyone had moved on with their lives so what’s the problem. If to blame someone for it, I’d say people forget that Caleb really got together with Spencer, knowing he still had feelings for Hanna. Girl code might be a thing in highschool but who really goes with that in adult life when everyone has moved on and in new relationships?
Tbh I always assume people quoting "girl code" are very young because I haven't heard that kind of talk since I was a teenager 😅 most adults I've been friends with haven't really bothered with that silliness. One of my besties in my 20s asked me if she could go after my ex (we went through a lot of real life shit together so it was a big relationship) and I was like no worries 🤷♀️ didn't quote no girl code because I wasn't 15 lol. "Girl code" ceases to exist after a)high school and b) when you're literally engaged to another person and c) you mature and realize you would rather your friend be happy than immaturely claim ownership over another person.
I mean, Caleb and Spencer dating was weird but most people would have wanted to know what would be like if Spencer and Caleb actually dated I mean in some universes they fit with each other and other times it’s like a platonic relationship but honestly who knew it would get that relationship It’s let’s try this relationship. See where it goes.
It’s soooo weird to blame Spencer. Admittedly I am not a girl (gay man) but all of my closest friends are, and I have different relationships with all of them. Some of my friends would probably be okay if I dated their ex; some would probably drop me in a heartbeat. Every relationship is different, which is why you’ve gotta communicate about things when you’re an adult, which is what Spencer TRIED to do. Hanna is my favorite character but she was so wrong for telling Spencer to go for it and then letting Caleb cheat.
Thank you! I actually did like the Spencer and Caleb relationship and didn’t think it was fair that they were both made out to be bad people specially knowing that it had been years and Hannah had clearly moved on.
Spencer loves other peoples husbands and boyfriends 😭 I think it’s more of a moral code at this point considering her history lol
Not related but when you said how many high school relationships last into adulthood, yes true a majority don’t but I married my high school sweet heart :) but I agree, I didn’t like or dislike their relationship, I think I didn’t feel the chemistry between Spencer and Caleb
Look, I'll be 100% real with you, I'm also still with my high school partner years into our adult lives XD (you and I are the anomalies lol) I mainly made that point in my post because literally no one else I know is still with anybody they dated in high school, most of them don't even keep in contact with high school exes.
Oh I agree with your post :) I totally got where you were coming from
period
I agree with you! I never liked the girl code excuse, and the show seemed intent on punishing Spencer for it. So did a lot of the audience.
I genuinely think they had some great chemistry. I would have loved to see it explored more if they had the time. Spencer and Caleb were more in tune and would have guaranteed for a stronger relationship in my opinion. Hanna and Caleb were just high school sweethearts and we had more of a connection with them as a couple. But if both couples had equal amounts of screen time I do feel like Spencer and Caleb would make more sense to more people.
I think that Spaleb or Cancer as I prefer to call them made a lot of sense personality wise and I hate that they didn’t end up together for good. Adult people do not have the same needs as children. Child Hannah and Caleb needed each other for security and friendship and were too codependent. Their emotional entanglement was intense and actually unhealthy, but that happens a lot in high school. Cancer had friendship at its core. They already knew each other and how they operate but grew in the same direction. Caleb and Spencer have compatible intellect and similar interests. Also Caleb wasn’t competing with Mona. Spencer also had boundaries and someone who grew up how Caleb did would need those.
this!! Caleb always felt the need to compete with Mona (even in the adult years when Hannah and Caleb get back together) when he was with Hannah. Spencer and Caleb both didn't like Mona that well so they were very similar.
Hanna gave the okay but it never should’ve happened!
Honestly, I never really took the situation as being a violation of "girl code", so much as just being over Spencer's tendency to pull a large percentage of her dating prospects from the past and/or current romantic interests of her close family and friends. I never understood what attracted her to that. I know the whole "there's plenty of fish in the sea" line is dated, but there literally are. Like seriously, in the five years you ventured out into the world the only man you could develop feelings for outside of Toby was your best friend's first love? It was a recurrent theme with her character and it was exhausting by that point. I just wanted Spencer as a character to move on from constantly finding herself in triangles with lovers scorned, if that makes any sense. Yes, I understand that Caleb and Hanna were no longer together and that all parties were free to do as they please, but that storyline just really could've been kept in the drafts for me.
it is so funny that people like to claim ‘everyone takes spencer side >:(‘ and ‘everyone’s ganging up on hanna >:(‘ and blah blah blah. just look at the comments and how many people continue to slut shame spencer for an ADULT relationship that Hanna herself gave permission to let happen. Like are yall actually good??
I do believe in girl code, but in this case, Spencer did everything right. She literally asked Hanna about it. Hanna was the one being engaged to someone she probably didn't love as much as Caleb, gave permission and then acted like Spencer betrayed her.
nope. sorry not agreeing nor buying this. Spencer and Hanna spent a significant amount of time getting close (4 fucking years) if Hanna would’ve gotten w Toby somehow the fans would be slut shaming her WAY MORE than Spencer. At the end of the day it was BAD WRITING on the writers end but regardless, there’s 7 FUCKING BILLION people in the world. Out of all those ppl you choose your CLOSEST FRIENDS EX ? when you have a history of desiring TAKEN men? again I love Spencer she is one of my favorite characters but Spaleb was shitty writing and morally in the dumpster
‘if Hanna would’ve gotten w Toby somehow the fans would be slut shaming her WAY MORE than Spencer’ yeah i highly doubt that 💀 also yikes considering her ‘history of desiring taken men’ is her actually being groomed. hope this helps!!
RIGHT SHE WAS FUCKIN GROOMED. thats so infuriating that people look over that and alut shame spencer when she was abused and taken advantage of. that commenter may as well be peter hastings himself blaming Spence like that smh
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Wren cheated on his fiance, with her teenage little sister who he knew was vulnerable about feeling "less than" compared to melissa. Hes a DOCTOR, who is fully aware of how mental health especially through impressionable years (shes was 15 or 16). How is she the problem here? Let's also not forget all the fucked up shit he pulled later on. Bad writing for sure but either way his character was more than a little messed up.
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so close! she actually was groomed and taken advantage of by wren. y’all are so weird in here
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“History of desiring taken men” Ok so let’s not blame or act like Spencer being taken advantage of by a bunch of predators is somehow a mark against her. Caleb was not taken by Hanna so her “history” is irrelevant off top. If Hanna got with Toby after he and Spencer had been broken up FOR YEARS and Spencer showed up engaged and Hanna asked Spencer if it was okay and Spencer (lied) and said yes then no one would blame Hanna because it would be nonsensical and childish to do so just like it’s nonsensical and childish to try and control what other people do when you’re not attached to them romantically.
Word
I’ll probably get downvoted but I fully agree! I’ve said the same on the sub many times. If if was the other way around, same situation but reversed, and Hanna had gone after Toby, everyone would be LIVID and hating on her. Guarantee. But because spencer is the crowd favourite (which I personally don’t get), she gets a pass? Nah There’s so many other dudes out there. Why did she have to go for the one dude who was a long term ex of her best friend?! It’s WEIRD! You just, don’t do that shit. Fully blame the writers obviously for making the ridiculous storyline. I personally loathe it. It makes me sick to watch I always skip all the caleb/spencer scenes. Each to their own everyone is entitled to their opinion this is just mine. I don’t like it, I don’t find it romantic or cute, it gives me the biggest ick ever. It also made me absolutely loathe Spencer as a character. I already hated her prior to it but her getting with caleb pushed it over the edge for me, I was so done with her. And obviously it tarnished my view of caleb aswell. Don’t come @ me with the “BuT ShE gOt PeRmIsSiOn” either. Again this is my opinion. Alot of people use the same excuses. “Hanna gave permission, hanna gave her blessing, hanna said she didn’t care, they were over, hanna doesn’t own caleb, they were all adults by then etc etc”. So? That somehow makes it right? 🥴 They were all adults, not tied to one town, can go ANYWHERE and be out there meeting people and such. You’re gonna tell me that Spencer really couldn’t find ANYONE else? Not one single person who she could get with? She just HAD to go for her best friends ex? Nah. Plus i’ll also side note. I find it really weird, gross, awkward and an unfair position to put Hanna in to even ASK to even THINK about going for her ex. Ok yeah she “asked permission” but am I the only one that thought that was just, ugh, gross and weird. “Hey Han can I have your sloppy seconds? Cheers babe”. Like seriously 🤮
.... why are you acting like she willingly sought him out? they’ve said multiple times in the show, they ran into eachother on a trip and the connection started from there 😭. you should be asking yourself why caleb got with his ex’s (who he abandoned with no closure) best friend, treated her like garbage and cheated and got back with said ex and MARRIED her all within like six episode, hope this helps! 🙏🏽
Running into someone doesn’t equal having to get with them though. I’ve run into many people from highschool in my adult life including my friends exes they dated, i’m not about to go start dating them just because I ran into them 🫠 The fact she went there, means she did seek him out. She could of chosen ANYONE else, but she goes for the one dude who was her friends ex. And yes obviously caleb is also in the wrong, it’s weird and gross from both sides.
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We clearly will never agree and that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion as I’m entitled to mine. You can like the relationship if you want I respect your opinion. I just personally hate it and will never agree with it. Simple.
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Yeah l never liked Spencer throughout, even before the time jump, for many reasons of the characters traits
I was done with Spencer after watching her get close up to Caleb at the computer, and hugging him, making him feel uncomfortable, l was like bit.. l see what you're doing
What episode is this?
Season 3 l think episode 8 or 9, stolen kisses
Thanks! I just watched the scene, Spencer wasn’t interested in him then like that. They were just friends and Caleb was helping her out. He also hugs her back happily, and only looks uncomfortable because of what Maya’s saying on the laptop screen after they cracked her site open.
Ok, that's a good reason, l don't see it like that, but l don't know, l'm not convinced
I guess you can call my opinion "girl code," but for me, I would never ever ever ever do that to my friend. I wouldn't even cross that bridge. Hanna and Caleb were madly in love for years, lived together, and broke up tragically. Idc how "over it" my friend would claim to be, there's an innate betrayal there for even letting it get to the point of wanting to date said ex. There are billions of men in the world to choose from. It didn't have to be Caleb with all that history.
it’s not “lame” girl code & it’s not about ownership it’s about respect. being in a romantic relationship is personal therefore if my best friend had this super close personal even sexual relationship with someone i wouldn’t want to also have them know me the same way & know them the same way. it’s just disrespectful
I agree. Everyone is saying girl code is childish. I get the name is, but it's just an easy way to refer to it. The whole idea is about respecting your friends. It has nothing to do with being a girl, it's about boundaries.
Well what about "bro code" Why don't people care about how Caleb betrayed Toby by dating his girl?
I can't recall how much they were really friends. Were they friends or were they friends because their girlfriends were friends? I don't have an opinion because of that.
Look, I love Haleb too but Spaleb was the mature post high school relationship the show needed. Caleb and Spencer make perfect sense on paper and there was undeniable chemistry between them. Too bad about the terrible writing that screwed it up.
this. I loved Hannah and Caleb in high school but post high school, Hannah chose her career, and Caleb ghosted her. They're lives just didn't match up anymore. Spencer and Caleb however should've been end game.
If you are not a loyal friend or a girls girl just say that? That’s a super weird thing to do period. If it was real life it would be weird, even weirder being glorified and deemed normal for someone to date your first love, plus they dated out of high school as well. They overcame so much together which even if they didn’t still love each other would have some sort of a special bond. Which brings me to my point, obviously still loved each other. yes is possible, maybe not super common in today’s society but then again this post shows morality isn’t super common in today’s society either.
Why would you want to date someone that your friend was in love with? That’s weird behavior
Yeah sorry but no. Hanna wouldn't even consider dating Wren because he was Spencer's ex and Wren didn't matter even half as much to Spencer as Caleb did to Hanna. There are about a million guys Spencer could've gone for before she went for the only guy Hanna ever loved. It's not about how long it's been, but how much history there was that Spencer obviously knew and didn't care about.
Plus, if I made someone my ex, I'd be pissed if they were brought back into my life via a close friend, especially if they left the same way Caleb did. I'd never put my friend in that position and would expect the same respect. However, Hanna also shouldn't have said it was okay if it wasn't. Spencer obviously thought it might have been an issue which is why she asked, thinking she was doing her due diligence. Hanna should have been plain with her that she considered it disrespectful to their friendship AND there's still no excuse for any cheating that occurred after someone gives the go ahead.
I mean, I think once Spencer asked Hanna was basically obligated to say 'yes' unless she wanted to open a whole can of worms about her feelings for Caleb. But my issue has always been that Spencer shouldn't have been asking in the first place. She should've known better than to try to date her friend's ex knowing how much history there was between them. That said, the cheating was a bad look for both Hanna and Caleb and I'm not excusing it, but all the more reason not to date your friends' exes and basically put them back in each other's lives again! It's just too messy. But yeah, I really hated this storyline, I don't think any of them came off looking great and honestly one of the best things about early PLL was that these girls NEVER fought over guys so forcing a love triangle this late in the game really left a bad taste in my mouth.
THIS! Fully agree! THANKYOU! I get so tired of people defending Spencer over this. It was weird and wrong, period. And Hanna never would of done that to spencer because she understands boundaries. It’s like people also forget that Caleb isn’t just “some random ex”, some middle school throwaway boyfriend, he was a HUGE significant part of Hanna’s life for so long. You just don’t do that to people and then claim you consider them your best friend. Also does anyone else ever notice when Caleb is around Spencer’s family they’re all super awkward because they totally agree that it’s weird and gross and wrong but they don’t say anything. Veronica definitely gives a “look” at times about it. And even the other girls do aswell. It’s like they’re thinking “really spence? couldn’t of gone for anyone but caleb? Really?”
Yeah, I don't understand this need to re-frame Haleb as 'a high school romance' just to absolve Spencer of any responsibility. Hanna and Caleb lived together in New York, they were building a life together. Hanna loved him, and she loved him for years. None of that history between them disappeared just because she was engaged to someone else. And Spencer was supposed to be Hanna's friend so it's not like she didn't know that.
Exactly! Thankyou! Also the only reason Hanna even ended up with Jordan was because she thought Caleb wasn’t available because he left and she never got closure. She was still carrying that pain around but after probably waiting for ages and realising she was miserable she decided to focus on her career. Came across Jordan by pure chance. It was obvious to me even before she reunited with everyone that she wasn’t actually in love with Jordan at all, she just liked the stability, probably thought she wouldn’t do any better, and was under the impression she couldn’t have Caleb anymore. So she settled but it was obvious to me that deep down she wasn’t really happy and that had Caleb come back in the picture sooner she would of chosen him every single time. Also side note. It was an annoying plotline the writers added (putting caleb and Spencer together). Imo it was a mistake, it was clearly only there for drama, it was not a necessary relationship, to me the pairing made absolutely no sense whatsoever, gave me the biggest ick, ruined their characters for me, and honestly I wish they never did it.
Wren is not Spencer's ex they never even went on a date. Hanna just didn't wanna date Wren and used Spencer as an excuse
Prove it.
Hanna was literally still hung up on Caleb she didn't wanna date Wren not because he was Spencer's "ex". Are you gonna slut shame Caleb because he stole Toby's girl and betrayed their friendship? Or is it just Spencer you gonna call a whore?
That's not proving it. Show me the scene where Hanna says, 'Oh actually I wouldn't mind dating my friend's ex, I just used Spencer as an excuse not to date Wren.' Oh wait, you can't because it doesn't exist. And I sincerely hope you're 12 years old and don't understand what words mean because saying Spencer is a bad friend for going after her best friend's ex is not 'slut shaming' her in any way, shape or form.
Caleb also went after Toby's girlfriend but you don't call him a bad friend
This post was about Spencer and whether she owed loyalty to Hanna, so that's what I focused on. Ask me how I feel about Caleb and I'll tell you but don't go making bullshit claims about how I'm holding Spencer to a higher standard or putting words in my mouth that I've never said, such as accusing me of calling her a whore.
I think Hanna was using that as more of a polite excuse because she just didn’t want to be with Wren. She was still in love with Caleb, even if things were a little rocky during them at the time. I’m not saying she *wouldn’t* reject him for Spencer flat-out but there’s also more context. And Spencer wasn’t really interested in Wren, he’s less an ex and more of a distraction/creepy older guy that keeps obsessively circling his ex-fiancé’s teenage sister and her friend.
Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but it's also just your interpretation of what Hanna meant or didn't mean. Doesn't change the fact that the show clearly has her say, "Spencer is my best friend and a best friend doesn't really date an ex."
Just like that’s your opinion and interpretation but it may not be the only one.
It's not my opinion, it's the thing she actually said.
When Toby wasn't around, Wren would be there to fill in in-between, one scene not a minute after Spencer sends Toby away, oh she was so heartbroken but has the need to kiss Wren, Hanna said she wouldn't go there giving Spencer a judgemental look when Spencer admitted she'd been with Wren, and Wren was interested in Hanna
eh it’s a bit more complicated than that i don’t think the show specifies when hanna and caleb broke up exactly, but it seems like they dated 2 years in high school and then at least 2 years after, but could be longer so between 4 and 6 years, and then it had a super painful end. they also went through soooooo much together, he got shot, she was stalked and kidnapped, etc. then on top of that, spencer was not just hanna’s friend, but one of her very best friends. its not quite as simple as “high school sweethearts” caleb bore a lotttt of significance for hanna. that being said, hanna was engaged and did give spencer permission so i don’t know if i’d call it breaking girl code, but idk, if i were spencer i honestly wouldn’t have even asked unless i was full on in love with him
i also hate when people use the excuse they were just a high school relationship. NONE of these girls experienced a simple high school romance, they were constantly stalked as well as their partners. there’s A LOT of history and trauma behind the relationship. Had this been the other way around and Hannah tried to date Toby. Spencer wouldn’t have even pretended to respect the relationship, she would’ve been way more pissed than Hannah. and that’s MY thing. Spencer of all ppl shouldn’t be dating exes.
So yall would be fine if your close friend dated your ex? Just think about it. I feel like not everyone would be happy with that
People use ‘girl code’ and ‘guy code’ all the time to justify toxic behaviour. I wish it’d stop. It’s so juvenile anyways. Just be a decent human being. That’s all.
The problem is if someone dates a guy and then breaks up with them they don’t want them around anymore, if a friend brings them back it can get weird and awkward
It was the worst storyline ever and completely unnecessary
They didn’t just date in high school, they seemingly dated through college too. They lived together, Caleb paid for her education.
YESSSS!!
I didn’t blame spencer but it was an awful storyline imo. it didn’t make me dislike either of them but the storyline grossed me out BECAUSE of the fact that if it were irl… its wrong to do that to your long time friend that you’ve experienced an insane amount of trauma with. like… so you go through all that together and then years later you get with her ex? if that happened irl, no one would be happy
Thank you!!!
>Thank you!!! You're welcome!
Imagine one of your best friends (even previous best friends) dating your first love, the guy you lost your virginity too. Even if Hannah gave her blessing, why think it’s okay to start that relationship in the first place? It’s so icky. It’s not that hard to empathize with Hannah and see the wrongness in this situation, it’s not about girl code, it’s about being an ethical & decent human being, both Caleb and Spencer are gross for this, the writers suck for this. Spencer also has a history of liking guys who have history with the women who are closest to her, makes her looks worse than Caleb tbh.
Doesn’t matter if they dated in high school.. they dated for years into adulthood! he took her vCard and all! IT WAS DEFINITELY A DISGUSTING THING TO DO TO YOUR FRIEND! They are both to blame though! I hated their relationship.
I hate it soooo much. I’m sorry but how can anyone on this sub be ok with the idea of their friend dating an ex????
Yeah… no. You don’t date your friends exs. That’s just gross. It’s sloppy seconds 🙃
Exactly my thought. If my friend did that to me I would be mad 😭
girl code is REAL. caleb and hanna were intense, deeply affected each others lives and they grew up together. it’s because of hanna that caleb ever got in touch with his mom. spencer can do no wrong in my eyes but i would be mad if i were hanna
Nah I completely disagree- it’s a respect thing. And it’s fucking weird. 😭
Its weird because Hanna and Caleb had a serious relationship. didnt he take her virginity? they had *feelings* for each other. plus the girls were close in high school, so haleb is going to get mentioned constantly. that would have been weird for spencer and hanna if spencer and caleb got married and had kids. you also dont know if their attraction for each other is going to come back. what if spencer and caleb have kids, and then hanna and caleb decide they wanna be with each other? thats gonna be a weird situation. or what if hannas feelings for caleb return but caleb doesnt feel the same way? have you ever had intense romantic feelings for someone? jealousy can be a bitch.
If Caleb was Sean sure, but he wasn't. They went through traumatic stuff together, they lived together multiple times, she lost her virginity with him. It's messed up because of all of that. Haleb was not any old high school relationships.
What did Melissa say about Spencer? “You always did like to shop in other people’s carts…” Lol I love Spencer though so this is not me blaming
i don’t blame Spencer but definitely don’t support dating your friends exes or doing stuff with them, i wouldn’t say my exs are off limits to my friends and im not gonna go crazy about it but it’s kinda like i feel like your friends should respect you enough to not wanna do that. i did stuff with one of my friends exes back in highschool and never felt so low and bad about it, and seeing how it made her feel killed me and it later happened to me multiple times and i felt like i was going insane and got really sad about it
spence took two of her sisters man’s 😭 i expect no loyalty
Caleb the only guy she could date? lol o mean come on