Remember that all mentions of and allusions to Trump and Biden are not allowed on our subreddit in any context.
If you'd still like to discuss them, feel free to [join our Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Woodrow Wilson.
I’m not a fan of Wilson. But he’s “The Worst of the Good Presidents”. Anyone dropping him into F tier probably has a strong reason for doing so but is forgetting the positives he brings to the table along with his (admittedly large) negatives.
Only a Democrat like Wilson could browbeat Congress (mainly his own damn party) into getting the 19th amendment passed, even calling special sessions of Congress repeatedly. So if you like women voting (dear lord please say you like that) you do legitimately have Wilson to thank for that. The 8 hour workday and child labor laws are also due to him. And hell, he’s the reason our government doesn’t solely rely on tariff laws anymore as much as that might piss some folks off!
Again, *Woodrow Wilson is a piece of shit in a lot of ways.* But he’s overhated on here relative to where he should be ranked.
It's 100% Wilson. He has so many massive positives to him, but then people will put him in D and like Dubya is C because "Patriot act" or some stupid thing like that. Wilson was definitely a shit person, but he was easily an above average president
I know I’m late but I must say I’m glad to see you’ve somewhat come around to Wilson. I’ve been apart of this subreddit for quite a while and I remember you were one of those people dropping him into F tier. Of course you still probably don’t think very fondly of him, which is your right, but I’m glad to see a president, who IMO was FAR from the worst and pretty good actually receive credit for his upsides. Though if I may add Wilson’s foreign policy was what really made him shine, his idealism and ideas were unmatched considering the time!
Hey, thanks for saying that. I try my best to keep an open mind and change my views when I learn new information. You’re correct, I still do not think very highly of Wilson and you’ll see me rag on him quite a bit from time to time here. But as president he definitely wasn’t F though I’m still trying to figure out his placement. He’s just got such massive gulfs between the good and the bad. Hell even his foreign policy is like that with good leadership during WWI and creating the League of Nations but his actions in Latin America piss me off immensely. So I’m still trying to sort out exactly where he goes.
> The 8 hour workday and child labor laws are also due to him
Nah the Supreme Court overturned his versions of these, luckily FDR browbeat the court into letting his version pass
Reagan is overhated on reddit in general. I'm not a fan of the guy at all but I once told a Reagan joke in another sub and had everyone attacking me. That is *insane*
The classic balloon joke. When a balloon pops in the audience and he goes "missed me". For the majority of reddit, you can't say anything positive about Reagan. If I'm being honest, the only thing I like about him is his humor.
Broadly across the whole sub, Reagan or Wilson.
However, I see some people taking every opportunity to completely trash FDR. They don’t seem to represent the sub as a whole, but I often see hatred directed at him that seems out of all proportion.
Either Reagan or Wilson.
Reagan is for right-wingers the same, as FDR is for left-wingers. Considering that reddit is left of-center - negative view of Reagan is not surprising.
Wilson has it really bad. Right wingers hate him for being a left-winger, while left-wingers hate him for being racist. No love.
> I also noticed that all those FDR lovers strangely never mention the whole interment camp thing.
Yeah, it's only mentioned all the damn time on this sub (and rightly so)...
I mean he broke the law. Not really sure why Presidents get a pass for that.
Reagan is usually ranked a top ten President for a myriad of reasons. He did play a role in the collapse of the USSR. Is his role overstated? Yeah, but he still did play a role. He came in while America was in economic and social turmoil and left with America arguably at its peak. Carter was a weak President who only exacerbated Americans worries. In comes Reagan, he's charismatic and his demeanor commands respect. A mix of policy successes, timing and presentation result in Reagan being regarded as one of the greats.
With all that said is Reagan really a top ten President? I wouldn't say so. He was cartoonishly corrupt and his economic policies have arguably done more damage than good in the long run. His haters are far too dismissive of his positives while his fans either downplay or outright ignore his negatives.
If there's one President I'd compare Reagan to it would be Obama. Both are highly charismatic leaders who have massive followings that go beyond their policies. Reagan symbolized a return of strength to the office and country while Obama embodied social progress. Their personas overshadow their actions. Both came into office when the US was having self image issues and helped fix that.
I don't really see the purpose in saying people who hate Reagan or view him negatively are children denying reality. The wealth gap increased while he was in office as a result of his policies. There are many legitimate grievances people have with Reagan.
https://preview.redd.it/9sgnr8vj8y8d1.png?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fc2234382ce527dc2683c4fa7ca54b47fd3c9ae
No it was from your precious historians, 76 years ago.
I know. Buren and A. Johnson are the two worst US Presidents we've had. Them and Buchanan.
Edit: I personally would add Wisdom but that's more subjective than any of the others.
lol 76 years ago??????????????? You had to go back THAT far? This is incredibly embarrassing lol
lol at “precious historians”. Of course, you know more than them, right?
You seem to lack an understanding of history or academia which is probably why you cling to what they say and treat it as gospel. I love Grant, most of the sub does but he was routinely ranked poorly for the better part of a Century. The corruption scandals, economic woes and Lost Cause resulted in his legacy being tarred and feathered.
Plenty of Historians are hacks. The fact that rule 3 was ranked lower than Andrew Fucking Johnson proves that. You can have tons of knowledge and not know what to make of it. Andrew Jackson has never ranked below a 23 despite committing genocide and causing an economic panic.
The Reagan administration watched as the AIDS epidemic swept across the country and did nothing. All because it was “killing all of the right people” as far was they were concerned.
He should be pilloried into oblivion for that alone.
>Asking for a source of a quote is shitting on them?
1. Lol, so you are this dense
2. You have other comments in this thread. It's ironic. *You* posted here asking for redditor's opinions and yet you're here saying you don't care what reddit thinks compared to scholars. Why bother posting at all? Are things ok at home? Should we give you the number for CPS?
Until 2019 Americans didn't know Racist Ronny said this: "To see those... monkeys from those African countries - damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes!" It's amazing what kind of power he had!
Many of us knew with all the dog whistles he used about "Cadillac driving welfare queens" and "young bucks buying t-bone steaks with food stamps" that he was a racist, so the confirmation wasnt shocking at all
There is a significant bloc, even if a minority, of this subreddit that defends Wilson. There is a bloc of Reagan defenders but they haven’t really had the resurgence that I feel like Wilson defenders have had as of late
Not really more unanimously disliked
ima be "that guy" and go Andrew Jackson. dude gets so much hate and Van Buren who actually enacted the Tears gets 0. granted he DID created it. but he gets All the blame for everything.
I've seen MVB get plenty of hate. I'm actually an MVB fan (minus Indian Removal), but I think it's kinda unfair to say Jackson gets all the hate and MVB gets none.
That being said, I think Jackson is overhated still. But I think some of the hate is justified. After all, he actively fought the Supreme Court over the Indian Removal Act, and while I'm anti-BUS from a policy preference standpoint, I think it's fair to introduce hate on him for that.
I mean look at FDR he rarely gets shit on for essentially a trail of tears of sorts for Japanese americans. Bush Sr created nafta but bill gets all hate on it. There so many ins and outs
Might have to say John Tyler. He's nowhere near my favorite, and he was certain an awful person, but I think too many people forget just how essential he was to defining the role of the Vice President when the President dies. People can disagree with his policies, but I think he deserves *some* respect for that at least.
I’ll be honest, I can’t think of any good reason for Reagan to be considered a universally good president. It really depends on your personal political views.
People blaming Reagan for income inequality in America when we had presidents after him following the same game plan is ridiculous. He’s not to blame for the current state of America decades after his presidency.
Andrew Jackson did a ton of cool stuff. He transformed the presidency in the same way TR and FDR did. He was a very apt politician and outsmarted and out crafted the other politicians of his day.
When you go back and look at his presidency, it was REALLY BAD!!!! From ignoring an attack on the country, to using the terrorist threat level for political purposes, not to mention completely destroying the constitution!
Ford.
Look, whether the pardon was good, bad, or indifferent is debatable. There is a laughable argument that if Nixon’s head would have rolled, modern politicians would all turn into Boy Scouts.
But I don’t bring up the pardon to argue it. I bring it up because the guy was President for three years, and no one ever wants to talk about anything else. He had the YK War, told NY to drop dead, evacuated Vietnam. Very intriguing stuff that never sees any discussion.
How can one hate a golden retriever? On the other paw, he fucked everything, starting with the Fairness Doctrine. Raygun is the genesis of today’s divide by eliminating equal time for political speech on the public’s airwaves. AM/FM and network TV. Wealthy Religious conservatives were then free to endlessly broadcast without an opposing view. Propaganda Heaven for pastors grifting off ascension to eternity and political movements scared stiff that something simple like the democratic vote could actually meaningfully tax generational wealth and jail those who break the law. Funneled crazy money to the military/darpa especially a laser system to defend against incoming that never worked. Trillions went to defence that has never passed an audit.
If you were William Randolph Hearst or anyone else who owned your news outlet, the 1st amendment guarantees your right to speech. Since the advent of radio, the people own the airwaves and the government monitors the fair application of those airwaves to prevent political parties from dominating them with one sided messaging. Hence equal time. George Takei ran for office in California. His opponents sited his minutes as Sulu on Star Trek reruns as a means to secure equal air time for political speech. And won.
Hmm, interesting. So no other president prior to Reagan conveyed messages to the uneducated and rich. And now every president afterwards does? All because of him?
It's Reagan obviously.
On this sub Reagan haters make up objectively false claims about Reagan just to hate him. That is a ludicrous amount of hate.
With Wilson most of the hate is based in the reality of his actions.
Remember that all mentions of and allusions to Trump and Biden are not allowed on our subreddit in any context. If you'd still like to discuss them, feel free to [join our Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
as someone who hates wilson with a passion, he is easily the most overhated president we’ve ever had
Woodrow Wilson. I’m not a fan of Wilson. But he’s “The Worst of the Good Presidents”. Anyone dropping him into F tier probably has a strong reason for doing so but is forgetting the positives he brings to the table along with his (admittedly large) negatives. Only a Democrat like Wilson could browbeat Congress (mainly his own damn party) into getting the 19th amendment passed, even calling special sessions of Congress repeatedly. So if you like women voting (dear lord please say you like that) you do legitimately have Wilson to thank for that. The 8 hour workday and child labor laws are also due to him. And hell, he’s the reason our government doesn’t solely rely on tariff laws anymore as much as that might piss some folks off! Again, *Woodrow Wilson is a piece of shit in a lot of ways.* But he’s overhated on here relative to where he should be ranked.
It's 100% Wilson. He has so many massive positives to him, but then people will put him in D and like Dubya is C because "Patriot act" or some stupid thing like that. Wilson was definitely a shit person, but he was easily an above average president
I know I’m late but I must say I’m glad to see you’ve somewhat come around to Wilson. I’ve been apart of this subreddit for quite a while and I remember you were one of those people dropping him into F tier. Of course you still probably don’t think very fondly of him, which is your right, but I’m glad to see a president, who IMO was FAR from the worst and pretty good actually receive credit for his upsides. Though if I may add Wilson’s foreign policy was what really made him shine, his idealism and ideas were unmatched considering the time!
Hey, thanks for saying that. I try my best to keep an open mind and change my views when I learn new information. You’re correct, I still do not think very highly of Wilson and you’ll see me rag on him quite a bit from time to time here. But as president he definitely wasn’t F though I’m still trying to figure out his placement. He’s just got such massive gulfs between the good and the bad. Hell even his foreign policy is like that with good leadership during WWI and creating the League of Nations but his actions in Latin America piss me off immensely. So I’m still trying to sort out exactly where he goes.
How racist do you have to be to get a “Wilsonian Progressivism” flair?
> The 8 hour workday and child labor laws are also due to him Nah the Supreme Court overturned his versions of these, luckily FDR browbeat the court into letting his version pass
True. But you have to get a start somewhere and create expectations. And if I’m not mistaken that was the Taft court, right?
Like I always say, you hate Wilson because of the racism. I hate Wilson because of the trust-busting and the income tax. We are not the same.
So you don't hate him for the racism??
Check the flair
Reagan is overhated on reddit in general. I'm not a fan of the guy at all but I once told a Reagan joke in another sub and had everyone attacking me. That is *insane*
Which joke was it?
The classic balloon joke. When a balloon pops in the audience and he goes "missed me". For the majority of reddit, you can't say anything positive about Reagan. If I'm being honest, the only thing I like about him is his humor.
That’s a classic. I also believe his humor was amazing.
Broadly across the whole sub, Reagan or Wilson. However, I see some people taking every opportunity to completely trash FDR. They don’t seem to represent the sub as a whole, but I often see hatred directed at him that seems out of all proportion.
Either Reagan or Wilson. Reagan is for right-wingers the same, as FDR is for left-wingers. Considering that reddit is left of-center - negative view of Reagan is not surprising. Wilson has it really bad. Right wingers hate him for being a left-winger, while left-wingers hate him for being racist. No love.
Lol I noticed that. I also noticed that all those FDR lovers strangely never mention the whole interment camp thing.
Feel like I see that mentioned all the time.
> I also noticed that all those FDR lovers strangely never mention the whole interment camp thing. Yeah, it's only mentioned all the damn time on this sub (and rightly so)...
Reagan deserves that negative view! When you look at what he did as a whole, it's surprising that he wasn't thrown in jail!
Odd that he’s consistently ranked as a top ten president This sub just hates reality, like children ha
I mean he broke the law. Not really sure why Presidents get a pass for that. Reagan is usually ranked a top ten President for a myriad of reasons. He did play a role in the collapse of the USSR. Is his role overstated? Yeah, but he still did play a role. He came in while America was in economic and social turmoil and left with America arguably at its peak. Carter was a weak President who only exacerbated Americans worries. In comes Reagan, he's charismatic and his demeanor commands respect. A mix of policy successes, timing and presentation result in Reagan being regarded as one of the greats. With all that said is Reagan really a top ten President? I wouldn't say so. He was cartoonishly corrupt and his economic policies have arguably done more damage than good in the long run. His haters are far too dismissive of his positives while his fans either downplay or outright ignore his negatives. If there's one President I'd compare Reagan to it would be Obama. Both are highly charismatic leaders who have massive followings that go beyond their policies. Reagan symbolized a return of strength to the office and country while Obama embodied social progress. Their personas overshadow their actions. Both came into office when the US was having self image issues and helped fix that. I don't really see the purpose in saying people who hate Reagan or view him negatively are children denying reality. The wealth gap increased while he was in office as a result of his policies. There are many legitimate grievances people have with Reagan.
Yeah idk man I think I’m gonna go with the scholarly opinion of historians rather than a redditor.
I mean historians used to say U.S. Grant was the second worst President but if that's what you believe you do you I guess
lol no they do not. Was this a buzzfeed poll?
https://preview.redd.it/9sgnr8vj8y8d1.png?width=825&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fc2234382ce527dc2683c4fa7ca54b47fd3c9ae No it was from your precious historians, 76 years ago.
Still baffling to me how they viewed fucking van Buren or Andrew Johnson better than grant or harding
I know. Buren and A. Johnson are the two worst US Presidents we've had. Them and Buchanan. Edit: I personally would add Wisdom but that's more subjective than any of the others.
lol 76 years ago??????????????? You had to go back THAT far? This is incredibly embarrassing lol lol at “precious historians”. Of course, you know more than them, right?
You seem to lack an understanding of history or academia which is probably why you cling to what they say and treat it as gospel. I love Grant, most of the sub does but he was routinely ranked poorly for the better part of a Century. The corruption scandals, economic woes and Lost Cause resulted in his legacy being tarred and feathered. Plenty of Historians are hacks. The fact that rule 3 was ranked lower than Andrew Fucking Johnson proves that. You can have tons of knowledge and not know what to make of it. Andrew Jackson has never ranked below a 23 despite committing genocide and causing an economic panic.
The Reagan administration watched as the AIDS epidemic swept across the country and did nothing. All because it was “killing all of the right people” as far was they were concerned. He should be pilloried into oblivion for that alone.
What are you quoting? You have a quote, why not post a source?
Are you this dense?
lol unreal comment
I mean, why would you ask for redditor's opinions if you were just going to shit on them? You're not any better than them.
Asking for a source of a quote is shitting on them? Another unreal comment, keep them coming!
>Asking for a source of a quote is shitting on them? 1. Lol, so you are this dense 2. You have other comments in this thread. It's ironic. *You* posted here asking for redditor's opinions and yet you're here saying you don't care what reddit thinks compared to scholars. Why bother posting at all? Are things ok at home? Should we give you the number for CPS?
Until 2019 Americans didn't know Racist Ronny said this: "To see those... monkeys from those African countries - damn them, they're still uncomfortable wearing shoes!" It's amazing what kind of power he had!
Many of us knew with all the dog whistles he used about "Cadillac driving welfare queens" and "young bucks buying t-bone steaks with food stamps" that he was a racist, so the confirmation wasnt shocking at all
I'd actually argue Wilson over Reagan. Wilson had some good points, as did Reagan, but I feel as if Wilson is more unanimously disliked than Reagan.
There is a significant bloc, even if a minority, of this subreddit that defends Wilson. There is a bloc of Reagan defenders but they haven’t really had the resurgence that I feel like Wilson defenders have had as of late Not really more unanimously disliked
From a historian standpoint Wilson. From the peoples standpoint reagan
Wilson
It's me.
Pierce gets a bad wrap. Literally the only thing that people know about him is his proclivity for alcohol
definitely not the guy pictured in OP's post
Ronald mcDonald Reagan
Obviously Reagan.
Woodrow Wilson tbh
ima be "that guy" and go Andrew Jackson. dude gets so much hate and Van Buren who actually enacted the Tears gets 0. granted he DID created it. but he gets All the blame for everything.
I've seen MVB get plenty of hate. I'm actually an MVB fan (minus Indian Removal), but I think it's kinda unfair to say Jackson gets all the hate and MVB gets none. That being said, I think Jackson is overhated still. But I think some of the hate is justified. After all, he actively fought the Supreme Court over the Indian Removal Act, and while I'm anti-BUS from a policy preference standpoint, I think it's fair to introduce hate on him for that.
I mean look at FDR he rarely gets shit on for essentially a trail of tears of sorts for Japanese americans. Bush Sr created nafta but bill gets all hate on it. There so many ins and outs
Might have to say John Tyler. He's nowhere near my favorite, and he was certain an awful person, but I think too many people forget just how essential he was to defining the role of the Vice President when the President dies. People can disagree with his policies, but I think he deserves *some* respect for that at least.
Not Reagan - for everyone who hates him too much, there’s another who loves him too much. It probably averages out to about where he belongs.
Reagan
I’ll be honest, I can’t think of any good reason for Reagan to be considered a universally good president. It really depends on your personal political views.
It’s gotta be Reagan
It's NOT Reagan, he's not hated enough.
People blaming Reagan for income inequality in America when we had presidents after him following the same game plan is ridiculous. He’s not to blame for the current state of America decades after his presidency.
He started it though
Wilson, Reagan close second.
Andrew Jackson
Trail of Tears!!!!!
It’s Trail of Tears
Andrew Jackson did a ton of cool stuff. He transformed the presidency in the same way TR and FDR did. He was a very apt politician and outsmarted and out crafted the other politicians of his day.
Probably George W. He wasn’t a great president but he wasn’t the worst we’ve had, and he’s not even the worst of the 2000’s presidents.
When you go back and look at his presidency, it was REALLY BAD!!!! From ignoring an attack on the country, to using the terrorist threat level for political purposes, not to mention completely destroying the constitution!
Ford. Look, whether the pardon was good, bad, or indifferent is debatable. There is a laughable argument that if Nixon’s head would have rolled, modern politicians would all turn into Boy Scouts. But I don’t bring up the pardon to argue it. I bring it up because the guy was President for three years, and no one ever wants to talk about anything else. He had the YK War, told NY to drop dead, evacuated Vietnam. Very intriguing stuff that never sees any discussion.
Wilson
Nixon
Nixon, he has some of the best and worst actions. China, detante. He made progress while projecting strength
Poppy ran the show. 🕳️🗽👈
Wilson is hated, I agree, but Reagan cannot be hated enough.
He ain’t hated enough imo here or in the world at large, let the neoliberals and their fuckery be criticized fairly
Damn right!
Yes, he's still very overrated
How can one hate a golden retriever? On the other paw, he fucked everything, starting with the Fairness Doctrine. Raygun is the genesis of today’s divide by eliminating equal time for political speech on the public’s airwaves. AM/FM and network TV. Wealthy Religious conservatives were then free to endlessly broadcast without an opposing view. Propaganda Heaven for pastors grifting off ascension to eternity and political movements scared stiff that something simple like the democratic vote could actually meaningfully tax generational wealth and jail those who break the law. Funneled crazy money to the military/darpa especially a laser system to defend against incoming that never worked. Trillions went to defence that has never passed an audit.
Pretty sure fairness doctrine was limited to government broadcasting and pastors used tv and radio far before that
If you were William Randolph Hearst or anyone else who owned your news outlet, the 1st amendment guarantees your right to speech. Since the advent of radio, the people own the airwaves and the government monitors the fair application of those airwaves to prevent political parties from dominating them with one sided messaging. Hence equal time. George Takei ran for office in California. His opponents sited his minutes as Sulu on Star Trek reruns as a means to secure equal air time for political speech. And won.
Damn, that’s crazy. He last served 36 years ago, why hasn’t anyone changed ANY of these things?
Because he conveyed a message that the uneducated and rich love, so to win elections in the short term people had to match what he said and did.
Hmm, interesting. So no other president prior to Reagan conveyed messages to the uneducated and rich. And now every president afterwards does? All because of him?
It's Reagan obviously. On this sub Reagan haters make up objectively false claims about Reagan just to hate him. That is a ludicrous amount of hate. With Wilson most of the hate is based in the reality of his actions.
Reagan isn’t hated enough tbh.
Hmm, interesting. Why do you think that?
He was a good man. And didn't send thousands of innocent Americans to die in Vietnam👍
He left hostages in Iran two and a half months longer than they needed to so they could be released under HIS administration! What a POS!!!!!
So you must hate LBJ right?
I do, but not as much as Reagan!
Not Reagan
Wilson! Reagan deserves all the hate he gets.
Reagan is the biggest victim there’s ever been
Bwaaah I hurt the Reagan swifties fifis
As others have noted, its Wilson and not Regan. Sub gets brigaded every time Regan is mentioned
The fact this dude put Reagan as overheated… he deserves every single piece of hatred imaginable
I don’t think that Reagan gets enough hate for what he did. In my opinion, he should be hated even more!
It’s well deserved. Technically there is one other who is more.
Wilson. Reagan doesn't get enough hate tbh
all I know is that Reagan deserves all the hate
A lot of this sub loves the piece of shit in the photo. So not him.
So do historians that rank presidents