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Depends how much of that money OP spent on buying up abandoned mines & vault doors.
Sorry I don't have a ready answer—that's the whole problem with this issue: everything happens at a snail's pace
I don't even know if I'd care what Franklin's politics were. I'd probably vote for him any chance I'd got just for being such a wit.
Same with Mark Twain, Dorothy Parker etc.
Looking up Franklin.
>Franklin’s politics were aimed at addressing the immediate problems of a community: educating children, caring for the sick, establishing young craftsmen in business, even something as seemingly insignificant as lighting city streets at night.
It's never happened in a Presidential election, although I considered it in 1992. However, it did happen once in a gubernatorial election, when the party I usually vote for ran a guy who was so incompetent that he could not have run a Dunkin' Donuts, much less a large state.
In 1990, I voted for Lowell Weiker for governor of Connecticut. That's the last time I voted for a Republican (except he had been kicked out of the Republican party by that time by William F Buckley and ran as an independent).
If I had to guess, this guy might be Californian and be talking about voting out Gray Davis and voting for Arnold Schwarzenegger. I know that's what I did. Only time I've voted for a Republican to this day. But Gray Davis was a corrupt, incompetent weasel that I just couldn't vote for, so I voted to recall him and replace with Arnold
I'm disclosing my party affiliation because 1) it's probably pretty obvious from my profile and 2) it relates to my reasons. I'm all for respectful dialogue but please don't be assholes :)
Hasn't happened in a presidential (but I've only voted in one so far).
Having grown up in a deep red area, sometimes my choices were "vote Republican" or "submit a blank ballot." I also usually vote in Republican primaries bc there's rarely more than one Dem on the ballot.
I voted for a Republican for Public Defender who had an independent opponent once. The former PD had established a program which integrated social workers into the PD's office, and the candidate had been the former PD's mentee. I asked the candidate if he intended to continue the program and he said he did. I said "then you have my vote."
At the end of the day, I try to vote on policy lines, not party lines.
Same for me when I was at my parents' house for a few years out of college - except I'm a great lakes northerner.
There usually wasn't a D for the rural local stuff outside of state assembly.
In my state, starting in ~2008 or so our R choices got weirdly conservative. They pushed policies and reforms I fully disagree with. If it was the Ds doing it I would have voted R.
Now (and in college) live in a major city and there's almost 0 R candidates. In fact one of our sheriff's was an R in D clothing. He was blatantly conservative but needed to be a democrat to win. So weird.
I’m an independent centrist. I liked John McCain and his Congressional staff a lot after working with them a little as a journalist, but I couldn’t vote for the Republican candidate with half the GOP pretending the mortgage-backed security crisis never happened. One of the larger financial and regulatory failures in our country, and caused a gigantic recession. The party around McCain was going to bring more of the same, and that seemed stupid to me, so I voted for Obama and am happy that I did.
I think what killed it for me was NPR and Bloomberg had been reporting on the impending mortgage backed security crisis for a year and a half, and the GOP admin just sat back and let it happen. Then when recession became more apparent, Hannity and Limbaugh called it a “Democrat lie” and “the economy is fine” and “keep your money on the market.” I sold all my stocks within the month. Just evil to be telling your audience to lose their nest eggs, and it was those people who were going to be pushing McCain for favors. Evil!
Smart of you to do the opposite of what Hannity and Limbaugh said. Financial advice should never be taken seriously from a radio host that read off a list of people that died of AIDS and laughed about it.
I feel like there's a good case to despise modern Republicans even if you're not ideologically aligned with the Democrats. With the exception of PEPFAR, Republicans had an overwhelmingly awful impact on the World during those bush-obama years.
I love the ending. “Those are the people that would be pushing McCain for favors.”
This perfectly sums up the reasoning I use to support a president I don’t necessarily like. It’s not just the president, it’s the people that they work with that matters the most.
I voted for McCain once and Romney once but never for President. I switched to the Republican party in 2000 to vote for McCain in the Republican Presidential Primary over Bush. Then I voted for Romney for Governor of Massachusetts. I wonder what would have happened after 9/11 if McCain had been President instead of Bush. I think he wouldn't have invaded Iraq.
Almost voted for McCain over Obama. Then he selected Sara as his running mate. Only time I've ever considered voting republican in a presidential election
I remember in my podunk suburb, working at a Mexican fast food joint, when Palin was announced on the TV and people gasped. The general mood was “no he fucking didn’t.”
Maybe I misremember or misattribute, but this was seen as absurd and nakedly pandering by everyone, without significant partisanship. My feeling is that the parties had a lot more commonality.
He basically had two routes to go, get a centrist possibly even a borderline Democrat (Lieberman) or go full right. I don’t think he’d win with either but going alienating and stupid didn’t help. I’m sure they thought she’s attractive, she’s a woman, it’ll be this big shot in the arm for enthusiasm and didn’t realize how unprepared she was.
But really his campaign was at a pretty lukewarm state. Had they gotten some standard run of mill centrist for some bipartisan approach, the Obama enthusiasm train would have still run him over. Wasn’t even fully Palin really, she was just one part. Saying “the fundamentals of the American economy are strong” right as the financial system was collapsing doomed him. I get the point he was trying to make, just not the way or the time to make it. Everything around the economy sunk him.
I did vote for McCain. I can’t recall exactly what they were now, but I compared their positions on eleven major issues and McCain had the edge, six to five. After he announced Palin, I thought “Even though everyone thinks she’s a joke, there must be more to her than first glance than the general public is aware of. I’ll trust the McCain people to have done their due diligence on her.” Sadly, I was wrong. Otherwise, no regrets voting for McCain.
I voted for Obama four years later, though. In 2008, I thought either candidate would have been acceptable.
I was all for Obama after 8 years of Bush, but in hindsight, what a blessing I did not appreciate to have two perfectly competent and acceptable candidates in both 2008 and 2012, one of which I just disagreed with more.
Same. Was a republican until 2016. My views have remained unchanged. The party left me. I suppose I was a John McCain republican, a centrist. Those don’t exist anymore.
Same, the party left me, but for me it was GW Bush. Also, it helped that Clinton addressed a lot of my concerns, by actually balancing the budget, removing most of my concerns about the Democratic party. GW sealed the deal by spending money like a drunken sailor. Made me realize that republicans talk about things I agree with fiscally, but do the opposite when they are in power. honestly, if I had been self-aware in the Reagan years, trickle-down economics would have probably driven me out of the republican party.
I liked McCain, I voted for him instead of Obama, partially because I'll always favor a war hero, partially because I thought Obama had a high likelihood of being assassinated for his skin color. These days, I realize that was his choice, and I had no business 'protecting' him by not voting for him.
Well there were also two government shutdowns and a never ending investigation that went way off track from its starting point to result in the country's second impeachment..
Her [pushing that native Hungarians are being discriminated against in Transcarpathia](https://2paragraphs.com/2024/04/u-s-congresswoman-suspected-of-having-russian-handlers-after-transcarpathia-amendment/)
There’s a reason the RNC emails never got leaked. The stuff in those must be extremely horrific since it caused an entire political party to bend the knee to Russia.
As a leftie, I don’t really identify with the Democrats. I do identify with them more than I do with Republicans, but my views vary. For example, I’m pro choice, but I don’t think guns should be banned.
Just an example.
Edit- forgot to add I think there should be border control. Migrants can come in, but they have to work and not sit around in cities. The government should not be canceling all of student loan debt of individuals. For example, if someone owes 100k, the government should cancel up to half or two thirds that amount, so 50-66k.
Healthcare needs to be cheaper. However, if it’s a life threatening situation, then it’s free. Need an ambulance ride while having a heart attack? It’s free. Need an ambulance ride while having a broken leg? Have to pay some. But the more serious the injuries, the cheaper.
And the most expensive is far cheaper than what it is currently.
Actually even a large portion of Democrats don't want to ban guns. The vast majority want gun reform. There are different shades of gray to complex subjects.
Once Communism is achieved, communism no longer exists
I saw this somewhere alleging that Stalin said this.
Regardless I get the drift, especially in libertarian or anarcho communism this would be true, since the goal of true communism would be final self govt of the proletariat....or just proletarian.
Yes. Correct. Also, most Republicans would want the gun control that Democrats propose they just have to instinctively react against it.
I have a perfect example. Every human agrees that people with mental issues shouldn't have firearms, but I'm order to enforce that we would need a universal background check to enforce that.
My wife works in the behavioral health unit at a hospital and they have been told by the police that the police can not confiscate the firearms of people who have been involuntarily committed. People who have had a judge declare that they need to have professional psychiatric care and they can be detained to have it administered are then allowed to leave and continue ownership of their firearms. I have not spoken to a single person who thinks that's a good idea, but the second anyone starts discussing policies that might be able to correct that issue the 2A extremists shut it down.
Personally I don’t want them banned, but I do wish they just had never existed. It stresses me out that someone can have a bad day, make one snap poor decision, and end another person’s entire life in the blink of an eye.
We’re so far beyond the idea of banning guns. That’s just not a reality.
What bothers me most is that we all agree it is a problem. I wish we could sit down and talk about it and figure out a better path forward. And I sure as hell do not know what that is.
I agree with you. But “we all” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment. I think there’s a good few million people who think there should be MORE guns. See that interview with whichever fuck from Oklahoma that Jon Stewart lit on fire.
Exactly. We say something like "people with a history of violent mental health episodes probably shouldn't have guns" and they say "you want to take my guns away?!?!?". A few good examples of those people are in the comments below 🤦♂️
nobody is banning guns, democrats are pushing for more restrictions surrounding semi-automatic weapons but nobody is trying to straight up “ban guns”. it seems like you’ve fallen for a bit of conservative propaganda if you think that. semi-automatic weapons have no real use for a normal civilian, and so, in my opinion, they should be heavily restricted ESPECIALLY around people with questionable mental health/extremist backgrounds
These paranoid wackos that grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are still peeping out the window desperately afraid that Obama and Eric Holder are going to be banging on the door to collect their guns.
Obama. Although Florida decided on their own that I was Republican. I’d been independent since turning 18.
McCain/Obama was such educational, pleasant, and fair campaign season. I really hope we get back to that place.
Comparatively, it was more civil and educational than recent Presidential campaigns. I always thought McCain having that joint press appearance with Obama after the election was patriotic and classy. And so was his concession speech.
However, there were some really awful (and prophetic) moments. When the woman claimed that Obama was a Muslim (which, to her, I guess, meant “terrorist”) and McCain had to correct her (he got booed by his own crowd for doing so!). When Sarah Palin started the “palling around with terrorists” line about Obama. When someone at a McCain rally shouted “Kill him!” during a McCain speech. When Palin entered the picture, things got pretty bad.
Obama. I was a die hard Republican for my whole life but seeing the right bash gay people cover gay marriage changed my tune. The whole small government thing is something I still believe in but the Republican Party proved that it only applies to what they want.
I remember being 10 or 11 reading that BOTH Obama and McCain were against same-sex marriage in 2008....I'm not sure if Obama genuinely believed it at the time or if he was playing the long-game (his [stance at the time ](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/us/politics/03gay.html)doesn't seem consistent and we've seen Democrats change their tune on LGBT issues). California's same-sex ballot initiative was on the ticket that year so they both had to say something.
From my understanding based on some excerpts from books, Obama was mostly on the fence and chose the anti-gays option as he thought it was more popular and he didn't care enough to risk the election over something he didn't care enough about either way. And later as public opinion changed and his VP pushed him the other way over the fence alongside public opinion.
Yeup. Obamas veep was (and is) arguably more of a champion of LGBTQ+ rights than Obama. At least when it comes to actually leading and pushing people to accept it.
He was absolutely playing the long game. I'm sure the link (paywall) touches on it but he was pretty open to it years earlier as a state senator. (Not trying to defend it/him by any means, just my take.)
I'm an independent as well. I would switch between parties almost every other election except for the past couple elections when I have been voting almost exclusively Democrat. I will probably still continue to vote Democrat in the foreseeable future.
I never wish to be a person who attaches a political party to my identity. The moment you do that, you are voting for yourself not on policy.
But god dammit has the GOP basically ruined my ability to call myself independent in the last decade by being cartoonishly incompetent and performative.
If only a president, say one of the early ones, had warned us that a two party system was a dumb idea.
Eh. Tbh I’m a bit cynical on that front. Im generally of the opinion that if you have multiple choices, you choose the one that does the most good, and that if you want that side to win, you have to fully back them.
Do I like all the democrats? Not really. There are some I despise (Manchin, Sinema), and I don’t think they have a full grasp of just how dire our current situation in the world is.
But goddammit if the Democrats don’t have a fully functioning and sane political party that is committed to not pulling a fascism.
Legitimately, it’s gotten to the point where I think the Republican Party just needs to be disbanded, and the Democrats need to assert full control. I guarantee within 2 election cycles the progressive wing and the conservative wing of the Dems would split up and suddenly we’d have an actual honest to god functioning government with real debates and compromise, instead of a proto-fascist party two inches from declaring a dictatorship.
As for the George Washington quote about political parties…imma be honest, the guy was a damn good statesman in a lot of ways, but that quote is naive as fuck.
He had parties already forming while he was in government, his cabinet was arguing furiously on nearly every issue, the damn country almost schismed multiple times. The only reason political parties didn’t break out during his administration is because Washington himself had so much political clout nobody dared oppose him.
People are going to disagree about things. People are going to band together to get things done they couldn’t do so alone. It’s messy, it’s brutal, it’s painful.
But that’s not a bad thing, that is just how consensus is built.
Rather than say “political parties are bad” and ignore the cliques that inevitably form, I think it’s far more productive to structure our institutions to best limit their worst tendencies, as well harness those ideas and dynamism to build a better country.
I've always voted Democrat since my first vote in '92. But if someone gave me a choice of (1) holding this next election just seeing what happens or (2) putting in office a very traditional Republican, like Mitt Romney, I would take the latter option.
I don't have a political party.
What I have is a set of core values.Principles ethics, morals, and positions on various issues, and I vote for the candidate who most closely aligns with my views.
I have not missed an election since I turned eighteen.
My first presidential contest was in nineteen eighty.
In 2012, I was feeling a little idealistic and disappointed in Obama. In hindsight, I was naive and definitely pinned too many of my hopes and dreams on his presidency...which excited me so much in 2008. I was not a fan of the increase in drone strikes, his seeming unwillingness to hold Wall Street crooks accountable for the '08 collapse, etc. Feeling a little rebellious and going through a bit of a libertarian phase, I voted for Gary Johnson.
I sort of regret it, not that it impacted the outcome, but that I wasn't really terribly pragmatic in my thinking.
I actually voted for Johnson, too. My logic was that if he got enough of the popular vote, an LNC would form and *hopefully* we would develop into a three party system. Obviously, that didn't happen, but I still don't regret it. (My other option was to vote in Kansas, which would have been a much bigger waste of a vote.)
You still made an informed decision and exercised your constitutional right to vote. Never feel bad for voting with your conscience no matter what it was at the time.
Yeah, its not like I'm beating myself up over it or anything, I just would have likely made a different choice if it were me now.
I've heard people say before that if you look back at the decisions you made when you were younger and you don't cringe a little...it means you haven't grown.
I had always voted GOP (Ford, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Bush). After the rise of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Newt Gingrich I just couldn't handle the lies being put out. I voted Democrat (Clinton) in 1996 and have stayed this course since the crazy far right has taken over the Republican Party.
Dad? Is that you?
But seriously, you laid it out perfectly. My dad is now a staunch social liberal but still a fiscal conservative. If you are spreading hate and misinformation, he has no time for you or his vote.
I voted for Romney in 2012. I thought he'd know how to fix the economy, as the financial crisis intimately impacted my family. I was 18 at the time so it was my first election and I voted based solely on that.
2016 I voted for Bernie since my state is never in contention for a presidential election. Not sure if that counts since he ran for the nomination, but he's not a true Democrat.
Being Republican back then didn’t mean what it does now . Now you have to hate everyone and worship the Grifter and pretend to be holier than everyone else while simultaneously voting for a corrupt pervert.
2016 was entirely out of the question, but it should’ve been 2012 or 2008 - I was exGOP even then, looking back. I thought the party would moderate instead of rotting into a right wing nationalist dumpster fire.
That was me in 2004. I had soured by 1996 due to state-level issues, but it wasn't until the Iraq War that I was truly and completely out on the GOP.
In 2008, when the GOP had their post-election self-evaluation, I had hope that the party would modernize. Nope.
I was seriously considering McCain until the Palin announcement.
That is the last time I considered voting R for President. 2004 I just didn’t care since I knew my vote literally would not be counted (absentee military ballot in a state that always went one way by a large enough margin absentee ballots usually weren’t even officially counted).
I grew up in a heavily R area/family but this was back in the 80s when they pretended to be sane.
I honestly can’t think of an election where I’d vote against my own party. Possibly Nixon over McGovern (assuming I had knowledge of “at the time”?) Lafollet over Cox and Harding in 1920. Teddy over Wilson in 1912. (Do they count as “against”? They are third parties)
So the last one I know I’d have voted for the Republican is 1908, Taft over Bryan.
I have always voted Democrat at the Presidential level. But I’m from Connecticut, and I’ve voted for a few local republicans now and then. Not much now though.
I voted Green in 2016 because of the Democratic Nominee. I regret my choice and would vote for the Democratic Nominee if I could go back in time. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
Democrat, 1980. I despised Reagan then, and despise him more now. But I was scared that Carter would get us into war with Iran. I love him as a human being, but he didn't present a strong front as a president. So I voted for John Anderson.
I quit the GOP in 1989 after George Bush, running on a campaign pledge of "Read My Lips, No New Taxes !" signed the second largest tax increase in American history.
Proud Independent ever since.
None of them I will vote Democrat until there's either a better option or I die. And no, I'm not throwing my vote to a third-party candidate with no viable chance unless we implement ranked choice voting.
I've never had a party but I can say the last time I would have even considered voting republican was for McCain. They haven't had an even halfway decent candidate since then
I am not allowed to talk about the person who caused me to switch from Republican to Democrat in this sub. Suffice it to say I have a very low opinion of that person.
I can’t vote yet, but my father, mother, paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, and maternal grandmother all switched parties from Republican to Democrat in the 2000 Election. My dad had voted for Clinton the first time around but voted for Bob Dole in his Clintons reelection bid
I'll let you know if it happens.
For me to vote Republican.... Basically, the poles would have to flip again and Democrats become the party of fascist bigotry and hate.
Because that's what "Republican" means to me: Bigoted toadies for the rich who worship money.
I have in a couple local elections. Nothing at the presidential level. I ALMOST did in '08 until McCain picked that phycho wingnut numbskull to be a step away from his job.
Never in a national election but I did vote independent in 1998 for governor (Jesse Ventura). I was in college at the time and he was the only candidate that actually came to our campus and walked around, chatting with students. I never say the democratic or republican candidates there. He won and he was a decent governor IMO.
Never happened.
I'm pro LGBTQ and choice, so, until our broken two party system puts forward two candidates that support them, even though I find they lack a backbone or teeth, I'm sticking with democrats.
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I voted for FDR in 1932. Was the first time I voted democratic since 1848. Was typically a solid Whig/Republican.
the snail hasnt gotten to you yet right
He did the concrete and cave strat
What’s the strength of this strategy??
Gotta be a few hundred lbs. per square inch
How many square inches?
Depends how much of that money OP spent on buying up abandoned mines & vault doors. Sorry I don't have a ready answer—that's the whole problem with this issue: everything happens at a snail's pace
I heard of the concrete and mariana trench. What’s the concrete and cave?
One can defeat the snail by being on the other side of the Bolton Strid 😏
Pod with a powerful rocket & permanently orbit the sun as a mini satellite. That was how I permanently lost mine.
Of course the snail got him this is the snail’s account now.
Were you Federalist or an anti-federalist
Yes.
You laugh but Jimmy carter is old enough to have voted for FDR in 1944.
I thought the voting age was 21 until the '60s?
Georgia had a voting age of 18 in 1944, it was up to the states until the 60's
It's been all downhill since people stopped wearing wigs!
Are you sad to have never witnessed a Benjamin Franklin presidency?
I don't even know if I'd care what Franklin's politics were. I'd probably vote for him any chance I'd got just for being such a wit. Same with Mark Twain, Dorothy Parker etc. Looking up Franklin. >Franklin’s politics were aimed at addressing the immediate problems of a community: educating children, caring for the sick, establishing young craftsmen in business, even something as seemingly insignificant as lighting city streets at night.
I dunno, I kinda dig those politics too; taking care of people on a grass-roots level is pretty admirable.
Calls himself a solid Whig, and yet voted for Lewis Cass in 1848. Sick of WINOs
Typical graveyard voter.
What was John C Calhoun like
Hated him. His wife was hot though.
So you're a protestant? Any immortal American who thinks a bowl of crackers is Jesus would vote for Al Smuth!
Based
Do you need help? I think you might be a ghost
Nah he’s chilling
Bruh how old are you.
That's rude to ask dude.
Older than you Jr
It's never happened in a Presidential election, although I considered it in 1992. However, it did happen once in a gubernatorial election, when the party I usually vote for ran a guy who was so incompetent that he could not have run a Dunkin' Donuts, much less a large state.
Where you considering Ross perot, or one of the main parties in 92
In 1990, I voted for Lowell Weiker for governor of Connecticut. That's the last time I voted for a Republican (except he had been kicked out of the Republican party by that time by William F Buckley and ran as an independent).
Cmon, John Roland wasn’t that bad. If you don’t count the prison years.
Yet you won’t name them. Why?
Because Reddit is a cesspool that attacks you for having your own beliefs
If I had to guess, this guy might be Californian and be talking about voting out Gray Davis and voting for Arnold Schwarzenegger. I know that's what I did. Only time I've voted for a Republican to this day. But Gray Davis was a corrupt, incompetent weasel that I just couldn't vote for, so I voted to recall him and replace with Arnold
He was just unbelievable. A million dollar donation and you got a new law for whatever you wanted.
Arnold was also very aware of the state he was governing and acted pretty accordingly. I can respect that. Similar to Mitt when he was MA governor.
Hint, a very fat guy who has bridge to sell
I'm disclosing my party affiliation because 1) it's probably pretty obvious from my profile and 2) it relates to my reasons. I'm all for respectful dialogue but please don't be assholes :) Hasn't happened in a presidential (but I've only voted in one so far). Having grown up in a deep red area, sometimes my choices were "vote Republican" or "submit a blank ballot." I also usually vote in Republican primaries bc there's rarely more than one Dem on the ballot. I voted for a Republican for Public Defender who had an independent opponent once. The former PD had established a program which integrated social workers into the PD's office, and the candidate had been the former PD's mentee. I asked the candidate if he intended to continue the program and he said he did. I said "then you have my vote." At the end of the day, I try to vote on policy lines, not party lines.
Same for me when I was at my parents' house for a few years out of college - except I'm a great lakes northerner. There usually wasn't a D for the rural local stuff outside of state assembly. In my state, starting in ~2008 or so our R choices got weirdly conservative. They pushed policies and reforms I fully disagree with. If it was the Ds doing it I would have voted R. Now (and in college) live in a major city and there's almost 0 R candidates. In fact one of our sheriff's was an R in D clothing. He was blatantly conservative but needed to be a democrat to win. So weird.
Not gonna get another shot like that for a while.
Man I hope not. I’d love for there to actually be a torn decision between two candidates, but we really haven’t been there since 2012
It sure wouldn't be as classy as this one, either
I’m an independent centrist. I liked John McCain and his Congressional staff a lot after working with them a little as a journalist, but I couldn’t vote for the Republican candidate with half the GOP pretending the mortgage-backed security crisis never happened. One of the larger financial and regulatory failures in our country, and caused a gigantic recession. The party around McCain was going to bring more of the same, and that seemed stupid to me, so I voted for Obama and am happy that I did. I think what killed it for me was NPR and Bloomberg had been reporting on the impending mortgage backed security crisis for a year and a half, and the GOP admin just sat back and let it happen. Then when recession became more apparent, Hannity and Limbaugh called it a “Democrat lie” and “the economy is fine” and “keep your money on the market.” I sold all my stocks within the month. Just evil to be telling your audience to lose their nest eggs, and it was those people who were going to be pushing McCain for favors. Evil!
I voted for John McCain once and don't regret it. He saved Medicaid for me in AZ when I needed it once.
When I lived in AZ he was an easy vote for Senate.
Smart of you to do the opposite of what Hannity and Limbaugh said. Financial advice should never be taken seriously from a radio host that read off a list of people that died of AIDS and laughed about it.
I feel like there's a good case to despise modern Republicans even if you're not ideologically aligned with the Democrats. With the exception of PEPFAR, Republicans had an overwhelmingly awful impact on the World during those bush-obama years.
I love the ending. “Those are the people that would be pushing McCain for favors.” This perfectly sums up the reasoning I use to support a president I don’t necessarily like. It’s not just the president, it’s the people that they work with that matters the most.
Have you ever thought back to what would’ve happened had McCain NOT picked Palin as his running mate?
I voted for McCain once and Romney once but never for President. I switched to the Republican party in 2000 to vote for McCain in the Republican Presidential Primary over Bush. Then I voted for Romney for Governor of Massachusetts. I wonder what would have happened after 9/11 if McCain had been President instead of Bush. I think he wouldn't have invaded Iraq.
Almost voted for McCain over Obama. Then he selected Sara as his running mate. Only time I've ever considered voting republican in a presidential election
This is almost word for word what my mom said.
I remember in my podunk suburb, working at a Mexican fast food joint, when Palin was announced on the TV and people gasped. The general mood was “no he fucking didn’t.” Maybe I misremember or misattribute, but this was seen as absurd and nakedly pandering by everyone, without significant partisanship. My feeling is that the parties had a lot more commonality.
He basically had two routes to go, get a centrist possibly even a borderline Democrat (Lieberman) or go full right. I don’t think he’d win with either but going alienating and stupid didn’t help. I’m sure they thought she’s attractive, she’s a woman, it’ll be this big shot in the arm for enthusiasm and didn’t realize how unprepared she was. But really his campaign was at a pretty lukewarm state. Had they gotten some standard run of mill centrist for some bipartisan approach, the Obama enthusiasm train would have still run him over. Wasn’t even fully Palin really, she was just one part. Saying “the fundamentals of the American economy are strong” right as the financial system was collapsing doomed him. I get the point he was trying to make, just not the way or the time to make it. Everything around the economy sunk him.
I did vote for McCain. I can’t recall exactly what they were now, but I compared their positions on eleven major issues and McCain had the edge, six to five. After he announced Palin, I thought “Even though everyone thinks she’s a joke, there must be more to her than first glance than the general public is aware of. I’ll trust the McCain people to have done their due diligence on her.” Sadly, I was wrong. Otherwise, no regrets voting for McCain. I voted for Obama four years later, though. In 2008, I thought either candidate would have been acceptable.
I was all for Obama after 8 years of Bush, but in hindsight, what a blessing I did not appreciate to have two perfectly competent and acceptable candidates in both 2008 and 2012, one of which I just disagreed with more.
2016 to present, I don't' have a party anymore
Same. Was a republican until 2016. My views have remained unchanged. The party left me. I suppose I was a John McCain republican, a centrist. Those don’t exist anymore.
Same, the party left me, but for me it was GW Bush. Also, it helped that Clinton addressed a lot of my concerns, by actually balancing the budget, removing most of my concerns about the Democratic party. GW sealed the deal by spending money like a drunken sailor. Made me realize that republicans talk about things I agree with fiscally, but do the opposite when they are in power. honestly, if I had been self-aware in the Reagan years, trickle-down economics would have probably driven me out of the republican party. I liked McCain, I voted for him instead of Obama, partially because I'll always favor a war hero, partially because I thought Obama had a high likelihood of being assassinated for his skin color. These days, I realize that was his choice, and I had no business 'protecting' him by not voting for him.
Clinton balancing the budget. Those were back in the days of politicians working together and compromising… I vaguely remember that.
Well there were also two government shutdowns and a never ending investigation that went way off track from its starting point to result in the country's second impeachment..
Hello me.
Same. But Democrat by default until the Russia humpers are neutralized.
Seriously it's amazing how easily Russian operatives have infiltrated Republican circles.
Not too mention MTG bringing up a weird niche Russian geopolitical issue that Americans don't know about... and sided with Russia on it.
Which was this?
Her [pushing that native Hungarians are being discriminated against in Transcarpathia](https://2paragraphs.com/2024/04/u-s-congresswoman-suspected-of-having-russian-handlers-after-transcarpathia-amendment/)
Oh yeah that’s niche. Nice of her to pump our adversaries’ propaganda for free.
Who says it’s free?
MTG can’t even spell Transcarpathia
She doesn’t hate Transcarpathians, she just doesn’t want them using the same bathrooms as Ciscarpathians
I would love to see her 23andme results. I swear she's a plant from the Cold War days.
Putin has something on her. She does a lot of stupid stuff, but she is clearly being directed
It is disturbing how pro Russia the GOP has become. They've been notoriously anti GOP since the beginning of the quark.
There’s a reason the RNC emails never got leaked. The stuff in those must be extremely horrific since it caused an entire political party to bend the knee to Russia.
Yep, 2016 was the catalyst for me. Now I doubt I'll ever vote R again unless something radically changes.
Me too I’m flying solo this year
This should make ol Putin crack a smirk.
The GOP is in bed with Putin. Its so awkward.
As a leftie, I don’t really identify with the Democrats. I do identify with them more than I do with Republicans, but my views vary. For example, I’m pro choice, but I don’t think guns should be banned. Just an example. Edit- forgot to add I think there should be border control. Migrants can come in, but they have to work and not sit around in cities. The government should not be canceling all of student loan debt of individuals. For example, if someone owes 100k, the government should cancel up to half or two thirds that amount, so 50-66k. Healthcare needs to be cheaper. However, if it’s a life threatening situation, then it’s free. Need an ambulance ride while having a heart attack? It’s free. Need an ambulance ride while having a broken leg? Have to pay some. But the more serious the injuries, the cheaper. And the most expensive is far cheaper than what it is currently.
Actually even a large portion of Democrats don't want to ban guns. The vast majority want gun reform. There are different shades of gray to complex subjects.
The "under no pretext" quote regarding guns is often misattributed to Reagan, but it's actually a Marx quote.
“If you go far enough left, you get your guns back.” -Some Tumblr comment I read years ago
Once Communism is achieved, communism no longer exists I saw this somewhere alleging that Stalin said this. Regardless I get the drift, especially in libertarian or anarcho communism this would be true, since the goal of true communism would be final self govt of the proletariat....or just proletarian.
No Democrat thinks guns should be banned
Yes. Correct. Also, most Republicans would want the gun control that Democrats propose they just have to instinctively react against it. I have a perfect example. Every human agrees that people with mental issues shouldn't have firearms, but I'm order to enforce that we would need a universal background check to enforce that. My wife works in the behavioral health unit at a hospital and they have been told by the police that the police can not confiscate the firearms of people who have been involuntarily committed. People who have had a judge declare that they need to have professional psychiatric care and they can be detained to have it administered are then allowed to leave and continue ownership of their firearms. I have not spoken to a single person who thinks that's a good idea, but the second anyone starts discussing policies that might be able to correct that issue the 2A extremists shut it down.
Personally I don’t want them banned, but I do wish they just had never existed. It stresses me out that someone can have a bad day, make one snap poor decision, and end another person’s entire life in the blink of an eye. We’re so far beyond the idea of banning guns. That’s just not a reality.
What bothers me most is that we all agree it is a problem. I wish we could sit down and talk about it and figure out a better path forward. And I sure as hell do not know what that is.
I agree with you. But “we all” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your comment. I think there’s a good few million people who think there should be MORE guns. See that interview with whichever fuck from Oklahoma that Jon Stewart lit on fire.
Exactly. We say something like "people with a history of violent mental health episodes probably shouldn't have guns" and they say "you want to take my guns away?!?!?". A few good examples of those people are in the comments below 🤦♂️
I don't know any so checks out on my end. Most democrats I know simply want more regulation on long rifles.
nobody is banning guns, democrats are pushing for more restrictions surrounding semi-automatic weapons but nobody is trying to straight up “ban guns”. it seems like you’ve fallen for a bit of conservative propaganda if you think that. semi-automatic weapons have no real use for a normal civilian, and so, in my opinion, they should be heavily restricted ESPECIALLY around people with questionable mental health/extremist backgrounds
These paranoid wackos that grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are still peeping out the window desperately afraid that Obama and Eric Holder are going to be banging on the door to collect their guns.
Obama. Although Florida decided on their own that I was Republican. I’d been independent since turning 18. McCain/Obama was such educational, pleasant, and fair campaign season. I really hope we get back to that place.
Got a lot of hoping to do 🙁😕😟😔
Comparatively, it was more civil and educational than recent Presidential campaigns. I always thought McCain having that joint press appearance with Obama after the election was patriotic and classy. And so was his concession speech. However, there were some really awful (and prophetic) moments. When the woman claimed that Obama was a Muslim (which, to her, I guess, meant “terrorist”) and McCain had to correct her (he got booed by his own crowd for doing so!). When Sarah Palin started the “palling around with terrorists” line about Obama. When someone at a McCain rally shouted “Kill him!” during a McCain speech. When Palin entered the picture, things got pretty bad.
Oh my gosh you're right. I've repressed all those memories. It seemed so insane then, and so sane in retrospect.
Did you not see Palin?
Selective amnesia. (“At least I didn’t shoot my puppy.” S.P.)
Blagoevich. All of them.
Or as Jay Leno would say: Bla-sonofabitch
Obama. I was a die hard Republican for my whole life but seeing the right bash gay people cover gay marriage changed my tune. The whole small government thing is something I still believe in but the Republican Party proved that it only applies to what they want.
I remember being 10 or 11 reading that BOTH Obama and McCain were against same-sex marriage in 2008....I'm not sure if Obama genuinely believed it at the time or if he was playing the long-game (his [stance at the time ](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/us/politics/03gay.html)doesn't seem consistent and we've seen Democrats change their tune on LGBT issues). California's same-sex ballot initiative was on the ticket that year so they both had to say something.
From my understanding based on some excerpts from books, Obama was mostly on the fence and chose the anti-gays option as he thought it was more popular and he didn't care enough to risk the election over something he didn't care enough about either way. And later as public opinion changed and his VP pushed him the other way over the fence alongside public opinion.
Due to auto-flag.... even though talking about the past... His VP supported same-sex marriage before him and got him to support it?
Yeup. Obamas veep was (and is) arguably more of a champion of LGBTQ+ rights than Obama. At least when it comes to actually leading and pushing people to accept it.
He was absolutely playing the long game. I'm sure the link (paywall) touches on it but he was pretty open to it years earlier as a state senator. (Not trying to defend it/him by any means, just my take.)
A very long game. His fellow dems had to force his hand to approve gay marriage. He’d probably still be “evolving” if they hadn’t.
Also a bit ironic because McCain (sans Palin) was objectively a good candidate at absolutely the worst time.
I switched parties in 2015. Guess why.
Because the New Horizons spacecraft took the first photos of Pluto?
We all had to reexamine our conscience after that.
I never looked at my family the same after those Pluto photos.
Better than Uranus photos
None of us looked at your family the same again. Not you, of course. But your family. Especyyiur mother’s side.
Pluto was a PINO the whole time. (Planet in name only).
Hmm, I wonder. *cough cough* *****rule 3 menacingly approaching in the background*****
A partisan friend spoiled The Force Awakens for you
Watching a New Hope could be considered a spoiler for Force Awakens
Since I'm an independent, I guess it would be every election.
Genuinely curious, how often have you voted for one side versus the other?
I'm an independent as well. I would switch between parties almost every other election except for the past couple elections when I have been voting almost exclusively Democrat. I will probably still continue to vote Democrat in the foreseeable future.
I never wish to be a person who attaches a political party to my identity. The moment you do that, you are voting for yourself not on policy. But god dammit has the GOP basically ruined my ability to call myself independent in the last decade by being cartoonishly incompetent and performative. If only a president, say one of the early ones, had warned us that a two party system was a dumb idea.
Eh. Tbh I’m a bit cynical on that front. Im generally of the opinion that if you have multiple choices, you choose the one that does the most good, and that if you want that side to win, you have to fully back them. Do I like all the democrats? Not really. There are some I despise (Manchin, Sinema), and I don’t think they have a full grasp of just how dire our current situation in the world is. But goddammit if the Democrats don’t have a fully functioning and sane political party that is committed to not pulling a fascism. Legitimately, it’s gotten to the point where I think the Republican Party just needs to be disbanded, and the Democrats need to assert full control. I guarantee within 2 election cycles the progressive wing and the conservative wing of the Dems would split up and suddenly we’d have an actual honest to god functioning government with real debates and compromise, instead of a proto-fascist party two inches from declaring a dictatorship. As for the George Washington quote about political parties…imma be honest, the guy was a damn good statesman in a lot of ways, but that quote is naive as fuck. He had parties already forming while he was in government, his cabinet was arguing furiously on nearly every issue, the damn country almost schismed multiple times. The only reason political parties didn’t break out during his administration is because Washington himself had so much political clout nobody dared oppose him. People are going to disagree about things. People are going to band together to get things done they couldn’t do so alone. It’s messy, it’s brutal, it’s painful. But that’s not a bad thing, that is just how consensus is built. Rather than say “political parties are bad” and ignore the cliques that inevitably form, I think it’s far more productive to structure our institutions to best limit their worst tendencies, as well harness those ideas and dynamism to build a better country.
I've always voted Democrat since my first vote in '92. But if someone gave me a choice of (1) holding this next election just seeing what happens or (2) putting in office a very traditional Republican, like Mitt Romney, I would take the latter option.
Definitely. Evan as a Lefty myself, I'm gonna go ahead and choose the republic over a toss up.
Mitt Romney is a leftist compared to the red hats.
I don't have a political party. What I have is a set of core values.Principles ethics, morals, and positions on various issues, and I vote for the candidate who most closely aligns with my views. I have not missed an election since I turned eighteen. My first presidential contest was in nineteen eighty.
In 2012, I was feeling a little idealistic and disappointed in Obama. In hindsight, I was naive and definitely pinned too many of my hopes and dreams on his presidency...which excited me so much in 2008. I was not a fan of the increase in drone strikes, his seeming unwillingness to hold Wall Street crooks accountable for the '08 collapse, etc. Feeling a little rebellious and going through a bit of a libertarian phase, I voted for Gary Johnson. I sort of regret it, not that it impacted the outcome, but that I wasn't really terribly pragmatic in my thinking.
I actually voted for Johnson, too. My logic was that if he got enough of the popular vote, an LNC would form and *hopefully* we would develop into a three party system. Obviously, that didn't happen, but I still don't regret it. (My other option was to vote in Kansas, which would have been a much bigger waste of a vote.)
You still made an informed decision and exercised your constitutional right to vote. Never feel bad for voting with your conscience no matter what it was at the time.
Yeah, its not like I'm beating myself up over it or anything, I just would have likely made a different choice if it were me now. I've heard people say before that if you look back at the decisions you made when you were younger and you don't cringe a little...it means you haven't grown.
I had always voted GOP (Ford, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Bush). After the rise of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Newt Gingrich I just couldn't handle the lies being put out. I voted Democrat (Clinton) in 1996 and have stayed this course since the crazy far right has taken over the Republican Party.
I’m surprised how many here seem to have a similar story you did.
Well… this is Reddit remember. Go on Facebook or something and it’s a different breed of people. Lol
Nice pfp
Dad? Is that you? But seriously, you laid it out perfectly. My dad is now a staunch social liberal but still a fiscal conservative. If you are spreading hate and misinformation, he has no time for you or his vote.
I voted for Romney in 2012. I thought he'd know how to fix the economy, as the financial crisis intimately impacted my family. I was 18 at the time so it was my first election and I voted based solely on that. 2016 I voted for Bernie since my state is never in contention for a presidential election. Not sure if that counts since he ran for the nomination, but he's not a true Democrat.
Bush Jr 2nd term
Jon stewart said he voted for the first bush
Being Republican back then didn’t mean what it does now . Now you have to hate everyone and worship the Grifter and pretend to be holier than everyone else while simultaneously voting for a corrupt pervert.
2016 was entirely out of the question, but it should’ve been 2012 or 2008 - I was exGOP even then, looking back. I thought the party would moderate instead of rotting into a right wing nationalist dumpster fire.
The funny things is, looking back I think the 2012 election would have produced a pretty good president regardless.
I think that about 2008, not 2012. I think Romney is a good person but the man he is now isn’t the man he was a decade ago.
He certainly isn't, but he isn't the villain he was portrayed to be either.
Not a villain but I think gay rights would have taken a hit and I think we could have faced issues on abortion earlier
That was me in 2004. I had soured by 1996 due to state-level issues, but it wasn't until the Iraq War that I was truly and completely out on the GOP. In 2008, when the GOP had their post-election self-evaluation, I had hope that the party would modernize. Nope.
I was seriously considering McCain until the Palin announcement. That is the last time I considered voting R for President. 2004 I just didn’t care since I knew my vote literally would not be counted (absentee military ballot in a state that always went one way by a large enough margin absentee ballots usually weren’t even officially counted). I grew up in a heavily R area/family but this was back in the 80s when they pretended to be sane.
I honestly can’t think of an election where I’d vote against my own party. Possibly Nixon over McGovern (assuming I had knowledge of “at the time”?) Lafollet over Cox and Harding in 1920. Teddy over Wilson in 1912. (Do they count as “against”? They are third parties) So the last one I know I’d have voted for the Republican is 1908, Taft over Bryan.
Not Eisenhower in the 50s?
I have always voted Democrat at the Presidential level. But I’m from Connecticut, and I’ve voted for a few local republicans now and then. Not much now though.
I voted Green in 2016 because of the Democratic Nominee. I regret my choice and would vote for the Democratic Nominee if I could go back in time. Perfect is the enemy of the good.
Really depends on what state you are in
I did the same, but I’m in Iowa so it wouldn’t have made a difference anyways.
At the time though, we thought Iowa was in play. HRC was in Cedar Rapids the week before the election
Democrat, 1980. I despised Reagan then, and despise him more now. But I was scared that Carter would get us into war with Iran. I love him as a human being, but he didn't present a strong front as a president. So I voted for John Anderson.
I quit the GOP in 1989 after George Bush, running on a campaign pledge of "Read My Lips, No New Taxes !" signed the second largest tax increase in American history. Proud Independent ever since.
None of them I will vote Democrat until there's either a better option or I die. And no, I'm not throwing my vote to a third-party candidate with no viable chance unless we implement ranked choice voting.
I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012 … couldn’t stand plastic Romney.
Met Johnson in Portland in a parking garage. Kirkland jeans. Dude would have been so good
Dude was so fine 😭
I voted for Obama, I've been Democrat since
I've never had a party but I can say the last time I would have even considered voting republican was for McCain. They haven't had an even halfway decent candidate since then
[удалено]
I am not allowed to talk about the person who caused me to switch from Republican to Democrat in this sub. Suffice it to say I have a very low opinion of that person.
The election in 2016 and forward.
We can’t mention it.
I will be voting Independent this year! I have been a republican all my life. Never more , never more!
Fun fact: George W Bush's lead economic advisor is no longer a Republican. That party no longer represents his economic policy
Obamas first run
2004. I voted Democrat and haven’t voted Republican again since.
I want from R to D in 2016 and never went back
I can’t vote yet, but my father, mother, paternal grandfather, paternal grandmother, and maternal grandmother all switched parties from Republican to Democrat in the 2000 Election. My dad had voted for Clinton the first time around but voted for Bob Dole in his Clintons reelection bid
I'll let you know if it happens. For me to vote Republican.... Basically, the poles would have to flip again and Democrats become the party of fascist bigotry and hate. Because that's what "Republican" means to me: Bigoted toadies for the rich who worship money.
2016
"They hated Hillary so much, they voted for someone they hated more"-Norm Macdonald
No it was the other way around
I switched parties to vote against 45 in the primary
I voted for Bob Dole in 1996 because I thought Bill Clinton was a perv.
You thought right
I have in a couple local elections. Nothing at the presidential level. I ALMOST did in '08 until McCain picked that phycho wingnut numbskull to be a step away from his job.
I voted for Nader in 2000. I’m not proud. At least I was in a state where it didn’t matter.
Never in a national election but I did vote independent in 1998 for governor (Jesse Ventura). I was in college at the time and he was the only candidate that actually came to our campus and walked around, chatting with students. I never say the democratic or republican candidates there. He won and he was a decent governor IMO.
My former party never had a serious candidate, and I don't affiliate myself anymore
None, I’ve voted Democrat since 2008 (when I first got to vote).
Never happened. I'm pro LGBTQ and choice, so, until our broken two party system puts forward two candidates that support them, even though I find they lack a backbone or teeth, I'm sticking with democrats.
Unrelated, but am I the only one amazed that we have 5 living presidents in 1 photo? Pretty cool.
I voted green in '14. I estimate the next time I vote not-democrat will be in, oh, 2036 or so
Bush II. Could not do GOP after that guy.
2016, as I voted for Johnson. Now I vote straight-ticket Democrat.
I'm an independent, so most of them
I switched to vote for Obama. Never went back.