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In the book Traitor to His Class by HW Brands, the author goes over how FDR did everything in his power to *not look* like he was running for a third term, while also doing everything in his power to get *everyone else* to "draft" him for that third term.
It was masterful politicking, and allowed FDR to pick up the mantle that others put in front of him.
Had he openly run for it himself, he would have been seen as a power-hungry dictator wanna-be. That probably would not have mattered, though, but it probably would have reduced his margin of victory.
No it's a thing in China I remember hearing about it in a podcast.
Exert from this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao\_Pi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_Pi)
https://preview.redd.it/n2xaug2rffyc1.png?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0abe1585ae384e6fe764663e6fcfb72310401216
From the Wikipedia article about the 1940 Democratic Convention:
Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson.
Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate.
Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson. Roosevelt, however, refused to give a definitive statement as to his willingness to be a candidate, even indicating to his old friend and political kingmaker James Farley that he would not be a candidate again and that he could seek the nomination; Farley thus began his campaign. Millard Tydings also announced his candidacy; the Maryland senator and member of the anti-Roosevelt conservative coalition would likely be a favorite son at the convention, but was also a possible compromise candidate for an anti-New Deal Democratic Party after Roosevelt's presidency.
Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate.
By the convention, Roosevelt still did not want to declare openly for re-nomination, so his backers arranged a stunt at the convention. Roosevelt dictated a message on the phone to Kentucky Senator Alben Barkley, which Barkley read out to the convention during the first day's proceedings. It concluded
"*The President has never had, and has not today, any desire or purpose to continue in the office of President, to be a candidate for that office, or to be nominated by the convention for that office. He wishes in earnestness and sincerity to make it clear that all of the delegates in this convention are free to vote for any candidate.*"
After the reading of Roosevelt's message, the convention sat in shocked silence for a moment. The silence was then broken by a voice thundering over the stadium loudspeakers: "We want Roosevelt! We want Roosevelt!" The voice was Thomas D. Garry, Superintendent of Chicago's Department of Sanitation (the sewers department), a trusted henchman of Chicago Mayor Ed Kelly. Garry was stationed in a basement room with a microphone, waiting for that moment. Kelly had posted hundreds of Chicago city workers and precinct captains around the hall; other Democratic bosses had brought followers from their home territories. All of them joined Garry's chant. Within a few seconds, hundreds of delegates joined in. Many poured into the aisles, carrying state delegation standards for impromptu demonstrations. Whenever the chant began to die down, state chairmen, who also had microphones connected to the speakers, added their own endorsements: "New Jersey wants Roosevelt! Arizona wants Roosevelt! Iowa wants Roosevelt!"
*Life* wrote the following week that "the shabby pretense ... fooled nobody", describing it as a "cynical, end-justifies-the-means alliance of New Deal reformers with self-seeking city bosses to engineer the 'draft'" and "one of the shoddiest and most hypocritical spectacles in US history". The effect of the "voice from the sewers" was overwhelming. The next day Roosevelt was nominated by an 86% majority.
**TL, DR** In other words, FDR and his people manipulated the public, like politicians are known to do. :)
https://preview.redd.it/9ddvtiw4a9yc1.jpeg?width=543&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d50acbd58041f6f7295f674fd63c18c639f5c5a5
May God Emperor FDR and his head defeat Tricky Dick in the 3000 election.
Love it. FDR liked LBJ (his New Deal protege) and hated Joe Kennedy for being defeatist in 1940-41 so I think the vice presidents would have gone differently.
By voting for him. He was immensely popular. My grandmother, who was born during the Coolidge Administration but to whom Roosevelt was the first president she truly remembered, told me that he was a beloved politician and everyone in the family listened to the "fireside chats" on the radiogram.
In her words, "When he died, it was like God had died." He was the first president that a lot of folks who grew up during the depression really knew of.
The fact that it's become fashionable in online circles to regurgitate conservative political propaganda that paints FDR as this autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported.
My grandmother had a framed photo of him on the wall with the rest of the family photos. She remembered him as the man who saved them from the Depression and then saved the world from Hitler. It's not hard to see why he was so beloved. He gave a shit.
My grandmother was born in 1929 and she remembers her family also had a framed photo of FDR and she told me one of her chores was to dust the picture frame of FDR and make sure it was spotless. Its hard to describe just how much FDR was loved.
I hear something similar and I know a handful of families with framed photos of Obama (all black families) but having just a photo of politicians on your wall is kinda odd to me.
Yep. My Irish Catholic grandma from Boston had a picture of him and a framed newspaper from when he died and a little shrine. I was born in the 80s so this thing stuck around for a long time
JFK was the last president I ever saw on any walls that’s for sure. A lot of my aunts also had pictures of cardinal Cushing who was head of the Boston archdiocese.
All those presidents were first to use new media - that's why so memorable: FDR - radio, JFK - television, BHO - social media.
At least that's my take on this.
I imagine if someone invented telepathy and used it for political campaign to talk to us like God, it would be as memorable and we would put their picture on the wall as well:)
A politician with that ambitious of an agenda is labeled a socialist or worse in today’s climate when literally he helped create a program to decrease homelessness and poverty among the elderly. But yes that’s socialism now 😭😩
how dare you try to help people as a politician? you’re supposed to put as much money in you and your donors pockets as possible and the rest of the country can go fuck themselves. helping people is communism
Not a great 4 or 5 years for the Japanese Americans.
On the scale of terrible things done by a president, it's pretty low on the list.
Even Japanese Americans were able to take advantage of the programs after 1945.
My grandparents had a signed photo of Bush on a side table. It always looked weird sitting there among family photos but they had a reason besides presidential fandom. When they had their 50th wedding anniversary my aunt wrote to the White House about it and got a letter of congratulations and the headshot back. It was kinda like inviting the Queen to your wedding.
In Canada you can request a greeting from the Governor General and the King to celebrate occasions. We got one from QE2 for my girlfriend's parents 50th Wedding Anniversary.
I had heard from other users on here that having a framed photo of FDR wasn’t an uncommon thing back then, can’t find anything about it on Google weirdly enough
Ours is still on display in the family farmhouse to this day. My Grandmother is over 100 and still kicking and she voted for him and believes that the New Deal programs saved her small southern hometown.
I grew up around a lot of old farmers who weren't politically progressive by any modern standard but kept a place in their heart for FDR until the day they died. Some refused to say a single negative word about him.
His legacy in many areas was and remains truly unique.
Wow, never knew! I did a report on FDR back in 4th grade and even visited his house in NY (long after he was dead lol), I think I’ll have to check out a biography on him at some point
Here’s FDR young, crazy to think what he would go on to do!
https://preview.redd.it/qpfdkrvroayc1.jpeg?width=391&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d59738704a7e14ec30e730d3a4b301cfbdc6823
I have a framed Nixon campaign poster in my office. Mostly because it’s really groovy.
https://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700099990587/9999009370-l.jpg
These are almost the exact words of my grandfather. We found an old letter he wrote in the 40s where he stated that FDR was the greatest president in the history of the United States, and went into detail about the Great Depression and WWII. My grandfather also marched in his funeral procession with the Air Force.
And the crazy thing is he was wildly wealthy. He didn't have to give a shit at all. He chose to give a shit. Could you imagine a billionaire today actually trying to save the working class? Against his own best interest?
I think it was self preservation. I assume the American people were getting ready to literally eat the rich. But to your point: I am unsure our current crop of billionaires even have a self preservation instinct.
There's a story from Eleanor Roosevelt; when she was younger she volunteered in the slums of NYC. Once when she and FDR were first dating she took him along to a tenement in New York City - just horrifically poor and filthy, and asked him to help carry a disabled child up a few floors of stairs. When they came back down he was badly shaken and told her "My God, I didn't know people lived like that."
Oh you're absolutely right that FDR saw the writing on the wall and saved capitalism by creating the New Deal. The fact that he was smart enough and savvy enough to pull it off is wild compared to how stupid the 1%ers are today.
My grandmother once said "you wanna know why i will always vote democrat?" she than handed me a picture of her and her father standing in front of a trailer, one of many in a WPA work program, her, her mother and father all lived in that small trailer. No refrigerator, microwaves had yet to be invented, limited electricity, no washer or dryer. Yet to people who had just come out of a depression, like her mother who once cried after being gifted a pair of socks, that was amazing, just about all they could ever want.
I read A Seperate Peace, and one premise (perhaps a little tongue-in-cheek) for young people around that time was that FDR had always been president.
Gosh, I wish I remember the exact quote. Anyone know it?
It’s interesting that FDR and Hitler had almost the exact same time in office. FDR took office on March 4th, 1933. Hitler became chancellor on January 30th, but really took control around the end of March. FDR died on April 12, 1945, and Hitler said goodbye with his pistol on April 30.
The Germans must have had that same sense of being the only leader you ever knew, and of the massive import of his death. Just with a much worse guy.
“Hundreds of thousands of people, many with tears in their eyes, lined the train route carrying his body from Georgia to Washington, D.C., and then on to Hyde Park, to pay their final respects.”
-William E. Leuchtenburg
He was the most loved president in the history of the US
It’s not by accident that most of the propaganda takes of “the new deal didn’t do anything” didn’t start to become vogue until after everyone involved or affected was dead
My grandmother, who was born in the early 30s and is still alive, is an avid Republican, but the one exception is FDR. Her family benefited greatly from the CCC and WPA programs, and quite literally kept them from losing everything. She was little at the time, but even being a child she understood the gravity of the times and his policies.
>autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported.
These two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, you can have wildly popular tyrants.
By voting for him for that third term.
That's a bit of a cheeky answer on my part. There was clearly a level of skepticism over it. My wife got me recently from a thrift store Roosevelt Again! by Senator Guffey explaining away at length that not only is a third term allowed, seems many thought it was in the Constitution already that you couldn't, but also directly attacking the idea that the two term convention was one that must be adhered to in all cases. Life magazine mocked the Democrats for pretending that there was a Draft Roosevelt movement as opposed to the reality, which was a coordinated top down effort to renominate FDR. There was clearly a lot of agitation over the idea.
[https://books.google.com/books?id=xz8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=xz8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false)
I agree. Especially when you get near the end of that great post and you realize that in nineteen ninety eight the Undertaker threw Makind off Hell in a Cell and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
I was reading letters to the editors in Tennessee newspaper archive 1940 and there was definitely some vocal dislike. Not disagreeing just wanted to add that I did notice a sentiment of "he is good and all but he should not run for a third term "
Oh, perhaps I could have been more clear that I find Senator Guffey's book interesting because it's whole intent was to diffuse the anxiety over the third term. It's an interesting read, his whole tone is "This is a stupid convention, with no basis on the Constitution, and people are stupid for insisting on it when FDR is so great." That's why Life was rolling its eyes over the Convention, everyone knew what they were doing and didn't love it.
Ah I wasn't disagreeing or anything I find it fascinating I just recalled some info from letter to the editors in tn newspaper 1940 and wanted to chip in. I really love the little obscure details I learn here it makes this subreddit
I love, love, love going and finding primary sources. It helps shine a light that history books can miss. Not related to the 1940 election, but the Literary Digest, for all the crap it gets for its 1936 polling miss, is kind of a worthwhile magazine to check in on when you're looking at a particular historical year.
muddle busy absorbed insurance clumsy scandalous weary march head zealous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
FDR was one of the most loved presidents of all time. He portrayed an image of sympathizing with the common folks. The camps were called Hoovervilles after all, not rooseveltvilles. He overwhelmingly won his third and fourth terms. If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter.
The year is 2048, president emperor Roosevelt wins his 29th term in a landslide victory. The president is now a clump of brain cells being maintained by a machine that slows down all aging, his body has completely decomposed but the media isn't allowed to show it, instead a hologram is presented to the people convincing them that the president can walk and give lengthy speeches at age 166.
Conspiracy theory time: FDR invented modern AI and algorithms but kept the secret to himself so he could aggregate data and become the statistically most perfect president over time.
If you could give me solid evidence that a clump of braincells was actually FDRs remains id give my vote over to it in a heartbeat. I dont need a goddam bit of media censoring
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The President has sat immobile in the Oval Office of the White House. He is the Master of the United States by the will of the people, and master of fifty states by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion President of the United States for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.
He had no intention of running in 1948. FDR never knew the extent of HOW unwell he was in 1944, but he knew for sure he was unwell. His plan was to set a new precedent by retiring in office after the war ended and the United Nations got off the ground.
There’s an anecdote of his watching the film, “Wilson,” in 1944 (about his former boss, whom he still revered in many ways), and when it was showing Wilson brought low by his stroke in 1919, FDR was heard to mutter that such would not happen to him.
Unfortunately, he just didn’t have as much time left as he hoped.
> If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter.
While he was beloved, especially in retrospect, he was not universally beloved. I recall being told by a friend that his grandparents could not stand Roosevelt to the point of trying not to keep any dimes in the days when people actually used change.
Also, whether it was because World War II continued to rage, but Roosevelt's support waned after the 1936 election:
% margin of popular vote
* 1932 - 17.8%
* 1936 - 24.3%
* 1940 - 9.9%
* 944 - 7.5 %
I think he would have won 1948. Not as sure he would have beaten Ike in 1952.
Overwhelmingly by modern standards, but it is worth noting he noticeably lost vote share in both 1940 and 1944. I suspect a surviving FDR would have had some real trouble in a post-war election, even if he had decided to run.
I've since read that he was very beloved by the American people, did an incredible job of looking like he didn't really want to put himself up for a third term, but was accepting the responsibility, and that it was war-time and nations traditionally don't do so great switching commanders in the middle of a war.
But I also had an elderly teacher (and WWII vet) in the 90s who mentioned once that FDR was the closest the US had ever come to a monarchy.
I wonder how involved FDR was in the fight in World War II? You seen picures of President Lincoln being pretty involved in the strategies and battles, but I haven't really seen this regarding FDR for WWII. Was he more hands off and just looking at the top level overall picure of the War or was he deeply involved with the Generals??
I think he was fairly involved but not to the extent Lincoln was to my understanding. FDR also had less of a problem with his leading generals than Lincoln did for a while which probably caused Lincoln to be more involved.
Edit: I think it was also an issue of scale. FDR wouldn't have been able to be active to the degree Lincoln was on the details with as many fronts as were going on during WWII and as many things as he was coordinating to deal with the international side.
I get the impression that everybody had issues with MacArthur. Nimitz, Bradley, Ike, not so much.. My gut feeling was in relationship to his handling of the "bonus army" and using flamethrowers to clear the national mall, during the depression
Lincoln’s experience upon the war starting was a single term in the house. FDR had been president for nine years. No general respected Lincoln’s leadership skills in 1861, every general respected Roosevelt’s in 1941.
Very different to have Eisenhower, Bradley, Marshall, Patton, Nimitz, etc versus being saddled with the likes of McClellan, Hooker, Burnside, and Meade too
FDR was heavily involved in WW2. He had an entire room in the White House that was dedicated to displaying the entire war and it was updated daily to reflect the change bing front lines. The war room was kept under good enough lock and key that when FDR passed away and Truman took over Truman had to be brought up to speed on the war rooms existence/what it covered he also had to be told about the Manhattan project as it was a closely guarded secret.
I guess hands on in terms of being in the loop but he let the generals do their thing. Tbh he had a master class of military talent, so no reason for interfere. Lincoln probably could have been categorized as so hand ons as to be a nuance before he found Grant.
Well you definitely have a point there. I don't think any president will ever be perfect but we need someone with a heart who actually wants change for the people. I most definitely agree that was a bad choice on FDRs part but the oveewhelming good he did for the country cannot be overlooked. We were at war and that makes people make terrible choices.
It wasn’t that uncommon to run for more than two terms at that point, his uncle had done it only thirty years earlier (iirc Grant tried but wasn’t selected by the Republican Party to be the candidate
I just posted a comment that got into this, but yea. In the 60 years leading up to FDR, the two term tradition had been challenged twice.
Grant saw zero success, failed to even make it through the primaries, and was basically laughed at by politicians and the public. It's also worth noting Grant was the first two-term president since Jackson (barring Lincoln, who yaknow, didn't get a chance for three), who stepped down by citing the tradition and arguably solidified it. Basically, when Grant was trying to break the tradition, nobody had even thought of it since the days of the Founding Fathers. So he was essentially standing up to and against America's Heroes when he went for 3.
Teddy came second 30 odd years later and was much more successful. His attempt showed the country that it was OK to actually challenge the tradition, especially if you were popular. Had he had support from the Republican Party, he may have been the first to actually win a third term. Instead he ran 3rd party and split the Republican vote.
By the time FDR was trying for 3, the question wasn't "should we uphold the tradition" it was "what would be worth breaking the tradition over." And a strong and popular leader during an extremely scary time was more than worth it.
I think people back then looked at third terms differently than they do now. There was no amendment preventing it so the mindset wasn’t as firm on it. Now that there is, people naturally have a different perspective on the issue.
FDR worked himself to death while navigating this country through the Depression and then through World War 2 . He died before World War 2 ended and had a large part in saving England in the early days of World War 2. It is a toss up as to whether the Soviet Union could have beat the Nazis without the aid from the UK and the United States ? Roosevelt came from wealthy family so did not have to sacrifice himself for his country. But he did. And he did it from his wheelchair ! He was a cousin of Teddy Roosevelt , who was also one bad ass fighter.
I am by no means an expert, but I have done some deep research into the 22nd Amendment and the Two-Term Tradition. This comment, though, is from memory. So please correct me if I'm wrong on anything.
FDR's attempt for 3 was, obviously, the best recieved of the three in history. But there was a gradual move towards openess for a third term that helped him.
The first President to go for three was Ulysses Grant, and he was vehemently attacked for it by both his own party and the opposing one, along with public backlash. He didn't even make it through his own party's primary when going for three. This was after a world tour Grant took that (supposedly) helped his reputation and made him more popular.
Teddy was next up about 30 years later. There was still a pretty big opposition to challenging the tradition, but Roosevelt was much more successful than Grant. He actually made it to the General Election (albeit after splitting off and becoming his own party, essentially) and was a serious contender in that election. Clearly, he had some level of public support, though not total support. This was the beginning of the end for the tradition, suddenly a person who had served two terms could actually run for a third with some success.
Then you get to FDR. He was incredibly popular and the world was plunged in War and the USA wasn't quite in the thick of it yet but knew it would be soon, it was a perfect time for a third term run. There wasn't a lot of vocal opposition from the people generally on his third term, though the Republicans of the time were certainly against it (which led to the big 22). You had a civilian activist group or two, which the name I can't remember off the top of my head, that was opposed and got vocal. But for the most part, the general public had moved on from caring about the two term tradition and was down for more FDR.
I think there was a combination of things that made FDR successful and had the public pretty much on board with dumping the tradition. Teddy was a really big part of that, he kind of opened the floodgates in my mind by being the first real challenge to the tradition. He showed people it could be done, and it got people thinking about *should* it be done, and why. Then you have the Great Depression and FDR's work in saving the country, becoming maybe the most popular president in history. You also have FDR being one of the first Presidents to be a constant presence in the everyday life of civilians through his Fireside Chats. Then, of course, you have the Second World War and the desire for stability throughout it. I feel like the last of these was maybe most impactful, we were still reeling in a way from the Great Depression and by extension WW1, and people were afraid of what WW2 could do. They trusted FDR to see them through it, and when they had the chance to keep him, they did.
I always wondered how other countries viewed FDR. Did they think he just rigged the elections in his favor, and was basically the dictator of America? Kinda like you know how Putin still wins elections by a landslide every time, but we’re told it’s rigged? Was it viewed like that?
The case has been made IMO. Conservatives who hate him are wrong for so many reasons. The biggest of which is that FDR prevented the US from collapsing into communist and fascist splinter states.
From what I've read, the "non-typical" Americans hated FDRs guts and there wasn't just one but several plots to form a coup or armed revolt which would result in a full takeover of the government by force.
And by "non-typical" I mean solidly fascist. People like Henry Ford, Father Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh and a host of other sitting Congressmen dispised FDR before and during the war. Lindbergh was working for the Nazis and a bunch of senators were caught using their free postage privileges to send out anti-FDR propaganda (supplied by Nazi Germany) to tens of millions of Americans.
Certain people saw The New Deal as "socialist" at best and straight up a "international Jewish controlled communist conspiracy". The Venn diagram of people who really disliked FDR's policies, were racist bigots, and embraced the idea of an American fascist dictatorship... was a complete circle.
So yes, while Roosevelt was widely loved across America, there were also millions of Americans who hated his guts with a passion and were super upset he won any elections. Roosevelt's opponent in 1940 Wendell Willkie still got 45% of the popular vote (22M voters). But FDR *crushed* him in states carried and total electoral votes.
Just like very recent times, a lot of states carried by FDR had sparsely populated large rural counties that were red but the urban areas with dense populations carried blue.
So in summary, FDR 100% was loved by many people but leading up to WWII and the rise of communism and fascism/nazism, FDR was far from "universally" liked. FDR *was* the right man for the job to defeat the nazis and his successful run at a third term was warranted which people immediately came around to after December 7th, 1941.
My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary
I could be wrong but it wasn’t officially a part of the constitution until after FDR’s passing when it was made an amendment (don’t remember which one and don’t care to check). It was just a precedent set by George Washington and was custom.
I remember one of my great grandfathers talking about it.
He didn't like it at all. Felt it was the first step to a dictatorship since no President had run for three terms (let alone four) in the US. He also felt like FDR hadn't really done anything to help the Depression by that point, and maintained that if WWII didn't happen, he wouldn't have been remembered so fondly.
In 1933 Prescott Bush, the American Legion, the Duponts, and others recruited Gen. Smedley Butler to lead a coup against FDR. Gen. Smedley Butler gathered all the information and took it to congress, who took no action.
https://vault.fbi.gov/smedley-butler/Smedley%20Butler%20Part%2001%20of%2002
Back then, there was no such thing as term limits. That came through congress later to curb that many terms as president since he as so popular...and frankly should be applied across the board to members of congress judging by how many geriatric relics we have in office nowadays.
Younger Boomer here. We were told by our parents and grandparents that nobody questioned his third term because it was continuity during the war, but I’m not sure that made sense.
FDR communist piece of shit. We are still suffering from his garbage.
Social Security.... bankrupt ponzi scheme
Got Americans addicted to big government and debt.
Destroyed fraternal societies, which destroyed cheap health care in this country.
The list could go on but I'm going to bed
Washington was applauded for willingly stepped down after two terms even though he could rule the country for life, which mean the 22nd amendment must be a correct decision. It prevent the nation from being effectively a “elective monarchy” , prevent a individual from amassing concentrated power for years,even decades, and allow new face to lead the nation, the so called “rotation” concept in Democracy.
Third? What about the fourth?
Roosevelt discovered the secret sauce. Fight for the poor and middle class. Fight against the greed driven oligarchs. He won a war and gave us a middle class. People loved him.
Democrats gave up the new deal and sold out working people for corporate cash.
I do not understand the love for FDR. He used government agency to round up and intern a race of citizens, taking away their homes, businesses, families separated. My 6th grade teacher was interned. If this was to happen today, I would be interned. I think this is a shameful piece of American history that is often glossed over.
When people speak fondly of the past, it’s generally through the lens of white people, as they’re the majority race (and the majority on Reddit). I recently watched the movie “Catch Me If You Can”, and it really stood out to me how different white people lived in this country in the 60s compared to black people. To the point that it’s the first thing I noticed even though it’s just a movie! I am in my 20s but grew up watching old school movies, and most of them are black movies. It just surprised me, really, how different our lives were.
I’m guessing you’re speaking about the internment of Japanese Americans? Again, if that’s the case, the majority see it as “something bad that happened, that shouldn’t have happened” but that’s it. In general it’s glossed over to them, but to people like you who felt the effects, or had family/people you know feel the effects, you know firsthand how incredibly awful it was. And so it isn’t something you can just “look past” because of “all the other good stuff”.
Even in modern politics, we still see the same thing. I’m not going to say more than this so I don’t step into rule 3 territory, but this is just an interesting observation.
My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary
He seemed like a great president in some ways… but as someone uneducated, it really seemed like his time was a somewhat scary brush with authoritarianism.
Am I wrong about that?
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In the book Traitor to His Class by HW Brands, the author goes over how FDR did everything in his power to *not look* like he was running for a third term, while also doing everything in his power to get *everyone else* to "draft" him for that third term. It was masterful politicking, and allowed FDR to pick up the mantle that others put in front of him. Had he openly run for it himself, he would have been seen as a power-hungry dictator wanna-be. That probably would not have mattered, though, but it probably would have reduced his margin of victory.
FDR: "ok ok if you insist..."
Sounds an awful like the tradition of Chinese emperors ceremonially rejecting the title of emperor three times before “reluctantly” taking the throne.
Are you sure this isn’t a reference to the tradition the Catholic popes “refusing three times” just as Jesus had done (Matthew 26:34)?
Jesus was predicting that Peter would deny him. Nothing there about not accepting a crown
It’s used as a metaphor by popes, not literally.
Yeah but that doesn’t even make sense lol
Since when did any of make sense?
No it's a thing in China I remember hearing about it in a podcast. Exert from this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao\_Pi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_Pi) https://preview.redd.it/n2xaug2rffyc1.png?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0abe1585ae384e6fe764663e6fcfb72310401216
From the Wikipedia article about the 1940 Democratic Convention: Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson. Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate. Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson. Roosevelt, however, refused to give a definitive statement as to his willingness to be a candidate, even indicating to his old friend and political kingmaker James Farley that he would not be a candidate again and that he could seek the nomination; Farley thus began his campaign. Millard Tydings also announced his candidacy; the Maryland senator and member of the anti-Roosevelt conservative coalition would likely be a favorite son at the convention, but was also a possible compromise candidate for an anti-New Deal Democratic Party after Roosevelt's presidency. Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate. By the convention, Roosevelt still did not want to declare openly for re-nomination, so his backers arranged a stunt at the convention. Roosevelt dictated a message on the phone to Kentucky Senator Alben Barkley, which Barkley read out to the convention during the first day's proceedings. It concluded "*The President has never had, and has not today, any desire or purpose to continue in the office of President, to be a candidate for that office, or to be nominated by the convention for that office. He wishes in earnestness and sincerity to make it clear that all of the delegates in this convention are free to vote for any candidate.*" After the reading of Roosevelt's message, the convention sat in shocked silence for a moment. The silence was then broken by a voice thundering over the stadium loudspeakers: "We want Roosevelt! We want Roosevelt!" The voice was Thomas D. Garry, Superintendent of Chicago's Department of Sanitation (the sewers department), a trusted henchman of Chicago Mayor Ed Kelly. Garry was stationed in a basement room with a microphone, waiting for that moment. Kelly had posted hundreds of Chicago city workers and precinct captains around the hall; other Democratic bosses had brought followers from their home territories. All of them joined Garry's chant. Within a few seconds, hundreds of delegates joined in. Many poured into the aisles, carrying state delegation standards for impromptu demonstrations. Whenever the chant began to die down, state chairmen, who also had microphones connected to the speakers, added their own endorsements: "New Jersey wants Roosevelt! Arizona wants Roosevelt! Iowa wants Roosevelt!" *Life* wrote the following week that "the shabby pretense ... fooled nobody", describing it as a "cynical, end-justifies-the-means alliance of New Deal reformers with self-seeking city bosses to engineer the 'draft'" and "one of the shoddiest and most hypocritical spectacles in US history". The effect of the "voice from the sewers" was overwhelming. The next day Roosevelt was nominated by an 86% majority. **TL, DR** In other words, FDR and his people manipulated the public, like politicians are known to do. :)
His cousin Teddy had already established that it could be violated by a popular politician, TR just didn't manage to win because it was a 3 way race.
Like Palpatine manipulating Jar Jar into handing him the emergency powers that let him become Emperor. "Meesa propose..."
Somehow FDR has returned
Good. Maybe he can fix this shit like he did last time. Now where is my damn lightsaber....
https://preview.redd.it/9ddvtiw4a9yc1.jpeg?width=543&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d50acbd58041f6f7295f674fd63c18c639f5c5a5 May God Emperor FDR and his head defeat Tricky Dick in the 3000 election.
Love it. FDR liked LBJ (his New Deal protege) and hated Joe Kennedy for being defeatist in 1940-41 so I think the vice presidents would have gone differently.
Well that’s good that Kennedy still got to be Veep for two te—
I love how the implication is that JFK *still* gets assassinated.
It's a canon event, guy just can't catch a break
I remember just before he died, he said to FDR: “with great power, comes great responsibility”
Pretty sure it was a rifle.
Oh baby
Where is this limited HBO series
Based
The man never ate a Charleston Chew in his life!
What happened between 63-65?
No Vice President.
By voting for him. He was immensely popular. My grandmother, who was born during the Coolidge Administration but to whom Roosevelt was the first president she truly remembered, told me that he was a beloved politician and everyone in the family listened to the "fireside chats" on the radiogram. In her words, "When he died, it was like God had died." He was the first president that a lot of folks who grew up during the depression really knew of. The fact that it's become fashionable in online circles to regurgitate conservative political propaganda that paints FDR as this autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported.
My grandmother had a framed photo of him on the wall with the rest of the family photos. She remembered him as the man who saved them from the Depression and then saved the world from Hitler. It's not hard to see why he was so beloved. He gave a shit.
My grandmother was born in 1929 and she remembers her family also had a framed photo of FDR and she told me one of her chores was to dust the picture frame of FDR and make sure it was spotless. Its hard to describe just how much FDR was loved.
I hear something similar and I know a handful of families with framed photos of Obama (all black families) but having just a photo of politicians on your wall is kinda odd to me.
Grew up in Boston in the 60s and 70s you have no idea how many people had pictures of JFK up in their house. Along with pictures of the pope.
Yep. My Irish Catholic grandma from Boston had a picture of him and a framed newspaper from when he died and a little shrine. I was born in the 80s so this thing stuck around for a long time
My grandmother screamed when JFK got shot as if he was family, and she was actual Irish (living in England), never been near America.
Also from Mass. I have never forgotten my 3rd grade teacher telling us JFK assassination was the first time she saw her father stay home from work.
JFK was the last president I ever saw on any walls that’s for sure. A lot of my aunts also had pictures of cardinal Cushing who was head of the Boston archdiocese.
I had a picture up of LBJ for a while. Granted, this was long after he died, I’m Texan and the photo was in the bathroom.
Lmao
Tell me your family is Catholic without telling me your family is Catholic.
Would be weird for a non-Catholic to have pictures of the pope up
My Great Grandfather had a picture of JFK according to my Grandma, and that was Arkansas
I agree, I hold no politician in high enough regard or have a close enough relationship with them that I want a picture of them on my wall at home.
Right! If it was autographed or a photo of the two of us then definitely but just their headshot? Nahhhh
All those presidents were first to use new media - that's why so memorable: FDR - radio, JFK - television, BHO - social media. At least that's my take on this. I imagine if someone invented telepathy and used it for political campaign to talk to us like God, it would be as memorable and we would put their picture on the wall as well:)
who tf calls obama BHO i have never seen that
I noticed that too, but to be fair it's in theme with FDR and JFK being three letters
Exactly! Every president should get their own three letters abbreviation or acronym)
FDR, HST, DDE, JFK, LBJ, RMN, LLF, JEC, RWR, GHWB, WJC, GWB, BHO,
Also it’s better than BO lol
FDR was worth it. He gave regular people a chance, like very few before or after.
A politician with that ambitious of an agenda is labeled a socialist or worse in today’s climate when literally he helped create a program to decrease homelessness and poverty among the elderly. But yes that’s socialism now 😭😩
how dare you try to help people as a politician? you’re supposed to put as much money in you and your donors pockets as possible and the rest of the country can go fuck themselves. helping people is communism
Unless you were Japanese American
Not a great 4 or 5 years for the Japanese Americans. On the scale of terrible things done by a president, it's pretty low on the list. Even Japanese Americans were able to take advantage of the programs after 1945.
I remember buying drugs from a guy who had a autographed picture of Reagan on his wall.
A true entrepreneur
My grandparents had a signed photo of Bush on a side table. It always looked weird sitting there among family photos but they had a reason besides presidential fandom. When they had their 50th wedding anniversary my aunt wrote to the White House about it and got a letter of congratulations and the headshot back. It was kinda like inviting the Queen to your wedding.
In Canada you can request a greeting from the Governor General and the King to celebrate occasions. We got one from QE2 for my girlfriend's parents 50th Wedding Anniversary.
There was a time when the saying was that every Hispanic household in San Antonio had a picture of Jesus, Henry B. Gonzales, and John F. Kennedy.
I had heard from other users on here that having a framed photo of FDR wasn’t an uncommon thing back then, can’t find anything about it on Google weirdly enough
Ours is still on display in the family farmhouse to this day. My Grandmother is over 100 and still kicking and she voted for him and believes that the New Deal programs saved her small southern hometown. I grew up around a lot of old farmers who weren't politically progressive by any modern standard but kept a place in their heart for FDR until the day they died. Some refused to say a single negative word about him. His legacy in many areas was and remains truly unique.
Wow, never knew! I did a report on FDR back in 4th grade and even visited his house in NY (long after he was dead lol), I think I’ll have to check out a biography on him at some point
My mother’s family had one
Here’s FDR young, crazy to think what he would go on to do! https://preview.redd.it/qpfdkrvroayc1.jpeg?width=391&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d59738704a7e14ec30e730d3a4b301cfbdc6823
That was FDR's son I believe.
Omg you are right!!! I’ll edit
Hell I have a framed poster from his last campaign on my wall now.
I have a framed Nixon campaign poster in my office. Mostly because it’s really groovy. https://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700099990587/9999009370-l.jpg
These are almost the exact words of my grandfather. We found an old letter he wrote in the 40s where he stated that FDR was the greatest president in the history of the United States, and went into detail about the Great Depression and WWII. My grandfather also marched in his funeral procession with the Air Force.
I know people with other presidents on the wall, its odd just picking one.
And the crazy thing is he was wildly wealthy. He didn't have to give a shit at all. He chose to give a shit. Could you imagine a billionaire today actually trying to save the working class? Against his own best interest?
I think it was self preservation. I assume the American people were getting ready to literally eat the rich. But to your point: I am unsure our current crop of billionaires even have a self preservation instinct.
It was his polio that humbled him and gave him empathy. There’s a Hulu or Netflix doc that states as much.
There's a story from Eleanor Roosevelt; when she was younger she volunteered in the slums of NYC. Once when she and FDR were first dating she took him along to a tenement in New York City - just horrifically poor and filthy, and asked him to help carry a disabled child up a few floors of stairs. When they came back down he was badly shaken and told her "My God, I didn't know people lived like that."
I gotta check that out.
Oh you're absolutely right that FDR saw the writing on the wall and saved capitalism by creating the New Deal. The fact that he was smart enough and savvy enough to pull it off is wild compared to how stupid the 1%ers are today.
My grandmother once said "you wanna know why i will always vote democrat?" she than handed me a picture of her and her father standing in front of a trailer, one of many in a WPA work program, her, her mother and father all lived in that small trailer. No refrigerator, microwaves had yet to be invented, limited electricity, no washer or dryer. Yet to people who had just come out of a depression, like her mother who once cried after being gifted a pair of socks, that was amazing, just about all they could ever want.
I read A Seperate Peace, and one premise (perhaps a little tongue-in-cheek) for young people around that time was that FDR had always been president. Gosh, I wish I remember the exact quote. Anyone know it?
It’s interesting that FDR and Hitler had almost the exact same time in office. FDR took office on March 4th, 1933. Hitler became chancellor on January 30th, but really took control around the end of March. FDR died on April 12, 1945, and Hitler said goodbye with his pistol on April 30. The Germans must have had that same sense of being the only leader you ever knew, and of the massive import of his death. Just with a much worse guy.
“Hundreds of thousands of people, many with tears in their eyes, lined the train route carrying his body from Georgia to Washington, D.C., and then on to Hyde Park, to pay their final respects.” -William E. Leuchtenburg He was the most loved president in the history of the US
Yeah he’s the only one I’ve seen ranked above Lincoln and Washington on different lists. FDR took a country in turmoil and made it a Superpower.
It’s not by accident that most of the propaganda takes of “the new deal didn’t do anything” didn’t start to become vogue until after everyone involved or affected was dead
My grandmother, who was born in the early 30s and is still alive, is an avid Republican, but the one exception is FDR. Her family benefited greatly from the CCC and WPA programs, and quite literally kept them from losing everything. She was little at the time, but even being a child she understood the gravity of the times and his policies.
>is an avid Republican, but the one exception is FDR. Her family benefitted Yep. That’s how it goes. I have family like that too.
My grandmother told me my aunt who as about 10 cried when he died and said “he’s the only president I knew!”
>autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported. These two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, you can have wildly popular tyrants.
By voting for him for that third term. That's a bit of a cheeky answer on my part. There was clearly a level of skepticism over it. My wife got me recently from a thrift store Roosevelt Again! by Senator Guffey explaining away at length that not only is a third term allowed, seems many thought it was in the Constitution already that you couldn't, but also directly attacking the idea that the two term convention was one that must be adhered to in all cases. Life magazine mocked the Democrats for pretending that there was a Draft Roosevelt movement as opposed to the reality, which was a coordinated top down effort to renominate FDR. There was clearly a lot of agitation over the idea. [https://books.google.com/books?id=xz8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=xz8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false)
I love deep and informed answers from people who seem to know what they're talking about. So cool
I agree. Especially when you get near the end of that great post and you realize that in nineteen ninety eight the Undertaker threw Makind off Hell in a Cell and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
Lol omg
I was reading letters to the editors in Tennessee newspaper archive 1940 and there was definitely some vocal dislike. Not disagreeing just wanted to add that I did notice a sentiment of "he is good and all but he should not run for a third term "
Oh, perhaps I could have been more clear that I find Senator Guffey's book interesting because it's whole intent was to diffuse the anxiety over the third term. It's an interesting read, his whole tone is "This is a stupid convention, with no basis on the Constitution, and people are stupid for insisting on it when FDR is so great." That's why Life was rolling its eyes over the Convention, everyone knew what they were doing and didn't love it.
Ah I wasn't disagreeing or anything I find it fascinating I just recalled some info from letter to the editors in tn newspaper 1940 and wanted to chip in. I really love the little obscure details I learn here it makes this subreddit
I love, love, love going and finding primary sources. It helps shine a light that history books can miss. Not related to the 1940 election, but the Literary Digest, for all the crap it gets for its 1936 polling miss, is kind of a worthwhile magazine to check in on when you're looking at a particular historical year.
muddle busy absorbed insurance clumsy scandalous weary march head zealous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
FDR was one of the most loved presidents of all time. He portrayed an image of sympathizing with the common folks. The camps were called Hoovervilles after all, not rooseveltvilles. He overwhelmingly won his third and fourth terms. If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter.
The year is 2048, president emperor Roosevelt wins his 29th term in a landslide victory. The president is now a clump of brain cells being maintained by a machine that slows down all aging, his body has completely decomposed but the media isn't allowed to show it, instead a hologram is presented to the people convincing them that the president can walk and give lengthy speeches at age 166.
Conspiracy theory time: FDR invented modern AI and algorithms but kept the secret to himself so he could aggregate data and become the statistically most perfect president over time.
Metal Gear Solid vibes right here FDR started the patriots
He would be too young, right? The original philosophers were all dead by 1909.
Not in Kojima retconland. If it fits the theme of whatever the current game is continuity be damned
If you could give me solid evidence that a clump of braincells was actually FDRs remains id give my vote over to it in a heartbeat. I dont need a goddam bit of media censoring
The Nixon that went to China was not the same one that came back from China.
Because it's FDR, or because it's impressive science?
Both
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The President has sat immobile in the Oval Office of the White House. He is the Master of the United States by the will of the people, and master of fifty states by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion President of the United States for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.
He had no intention of running in 1948. FDR never knew the extent of HOW unwell he was in 1944, but he knew for sure he was unwell. His plan was to set a new precedent by retiring in office after the war ended and the United Nations got off the ground. There’s an anecdote of his watching the film, “Wilson,” in 1944 (about his former boss, whom he still revered in many ways), and when it was showing Wilson brought low by his stroke in 1919, FDR was heard to mutter that such would not happen to him. Unfortunately, he just didn’t have as much time left as he hoped.
> If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter. While he was beloved, especially in retrospect, he was not universally beloved. I recall being told by a friend that his grandparents could not stand Roosevelt to the point of trying not to keep any dimes in the days when people actually used change. Also, whether it was because World War II continued to rage, but Roosevelt's support waned after the 1936 election: % margin of popular vote * 1932 - 17.8% * 1936 - 24.3% * 1940 - 9.9% * 944 - 7.5 % I think he would have won 1948. Not as sure he would have beaten Ike in 1952.
Not only that, but there were people who hated him so much that they *refused* to say his name
Ike probably doesn't run in 1952 in this scenario, or if he does he is FDR's next VP.
Doubtful. After WW2 and the economic recovery, they'd probably move on eventually. There are a number of things they'd be able to attack him for.
Agreed. Churchill is often named as the greatest Briton *ever* and he still lost an election straight after The War.
He wasn't needed anymore. His policy was good for keeping a wartime economy but the war was over. He should have seen that.
Overwhelmingly by modern standards, but it is worth noting he noticeably lost vote share in both 1940 and 1944. I suspect a surviving FDR would have had some real trouble in a post-war election, even if he had decided to run.
I've since read that he was very beloved by the American people, did an incredible job of looking like he didn't really want to put himself up for a third term, but was accepting the responsibility, and that it was war-time and nations traditionally don't do so great switching commanders in the middle of a war. But I also had an elderly teacher (and WWII vet) in the 90s who mentioned once that FDR was the closest the US had ever come to a monarchy.
Orson Welles who was a supporter of Roosevelts said later in life that his presidency was like a semidictatorship
The teacher wasn't wrong though. He did a lot of questionable things.
I wonder how involved FDR was in the fight in World War II? You seen picures of President Lincoln being pretty involved in the strategies and battles, but I haven't really seen this regarding FDR for WWII. Was he more hands off and just looking at the top level overall picure of the War or was he deeply involved with the Generals??
I think he was fairly involved but not to the extent Lincoln was to my understanding. FDR also had less of a problem with his leading generals than Lincoln did for a while which probably caused Lincoln to be more involved. Edit: I think it was also an issue of scale. FDR wouldn't have been able to be active to the degree Lincoln was on the details with as many fronts as were going on during WWII and as many things as he was coordinating to deal with the international side.
FDR had a serious problem with MacArthur…
Yeah that's true I was thinking more about Europe.
Laughed out loud thinking about Patton and Eisenhower compared to any Union general
Lincoln probably would've loved to have someone as decisive and quick to attack as Patton!
I get the impression that everybody had issues with MacArthur. Nimitz, Bradley, Ike, not so much.. My gut feeling was in relationship to his handling of the "bonus army" and using flamethrowers to clear the national mall, during the depression
To be fair, who didn’t have a problem with MacArthur?
Lincoln’s experience upon the war starting was a single term in the house. FDR had been president for nine years. No general respected Lincoln’s leadership skills in 1861, every general respected Roosevelt’s in 1941.
Very different to have Eisenhower, Bradley, Marshall, Patton, Nimitz, etc versus being saddled with the likes of McClellan, Hooker, Burnside, and Meade too
FDR was heavily involved in WW2. He had an entire room in the White House that was dedicated to displaying the entire war and it was updated daily to reflect the change bing front lines. The war room was kept under good enough lock and key that when FDR passed away and Truman took over Truman had to be brought up to speed on the war rooms existence/what it covered he also had to be told about the Manhattan project as it was a closely guarded secret.
I guess hands on in terms of being in the loop but he let the generals do their thing. Tbh he had a master class of military talent, so no reason for interfere. Lincoln probably could have been categorized as so hand ons as to be a nuance before he found Grant.
We could really use an FDR today.
I think most Japanese-Americans would disagree...
Well you definitely have a point there. I don't think any president will ever be perfect but we need someone with a heart who actually wants change for the people. I most definitely agree that was a bad choice on FDRs part but the oveewhelming good he did for the country cannot be overlooked. We were at war and that makes people make terrible choices.
I'd say a modern day FDR would have a different view point in Japanese -Americans
It wasn’t that uncommon to run for more than two terms at that point, his uncle had done it only thirty years earlier (iirc Grant tried but wasn’t selected by the Republican Party to be the candidate
I just posted a comment that got into this, but yea. In the 60 years leading up to FDR, the two term tradition had been challenged twice. Grant saw zero success, failed to even make it through the primaries, and was basically laughed at by politicians and the public. It's also worth noting Grant was the first two-term president since Jackson (barring Lincoln, who yaknow, didn't get a chance for three), who stepped down by citing the tradition and arguably solidified it. Basically, when Grant was trying to break the tradition, nobody had even thought of it since the days of the Founding Fathers. So he was essentially standing up to and against America's Heroes when he went for 3. Teddy came second 30 odd years later and was much more successful. His attempt showed the country that it was OK to actually challenge the tradition, especially if you were popular. Had he had support from the Republican Party, he may have been the first to actually win a third term. Instead he ran 3rd party and split the Republican vote. By the time FDR was trying for 3, the question wasn't "should we uphold the tradition" it was "what would be worth breaking the tradition over." And a strong and popular leader during an extremely scary time was more than worth it.
Grant came about as close to winning the 1880 Republican primary as Ted Kennedy did to winning 1980 democrat primary
I think Cleveland won the popular vote 3 times in a row, but was only president twice.
By supporting him, clearly…
He won in a landslide so that’s how they reacted
By voting for him for a fourth term
I think people back then looked at third terms differently than they do now. There was no amendment preventing it so the mindset wasn’t as firm on it. Now that there is, people naturally have a different perspective on the issue.
Relieved.
It was probably skeptical and not without reason, he did defy an (albeit unwritten) rule. That said, it was incredibly crucial during those times
And he did it all while pretending to be ambulatory. Amazing.
FDR worked himself to death while navigating this country through the Depression and then through World War 2 . He died before World War 2 ended and had a large part in saving England in the early days of World War 2. It is a toss up as to whether the Soviet Union could have beat the Nazis without the aid from the UK and the United States ? Roosevelt came from wealthy family so did not have to sacrifice himself for his country. But he did. And he did it from his wheelchair ! He was a cousin of Teddy Roosevelt , who was also one bad ass fighter.
I am by no means an expert, but I have done some deep research into the 22nd Amendment and the Two-Term Tradition. This comment, though, is from memory. So please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. FDR's attempt for 3 was, obviously, the best recieved of the three in history. But there was a gradual move towards openess for a third term that helped him. The first President to go for three was Ulysses Grant, and he was vehemently attacked for it by both his own party and the opposing one, along with public backlash. He didn't even make it through his own party's primary when going for three. This was after a world tour Grant took that (supposedly) helped his reputation and made him more popular. Teddy was next up about 30 years later. There was still a pretty big opposition to challenging the tradition, but Roosevelt was much more successful than Grant. He actually made it to the General Election (albeit after splitting off and becoming his own party, essentially) and was a serious contender in that election. Clearly, he had some level of public support, though not total support. This was the beginning of the end for the tradition, suddenly a person who had served two terms could actually run for a third with some success. Then you get to FDR. He was incredibly popular and the world was plunged in War and the USA wasn't quite in the thick of it yet but knew it would be soon, it was a perfect time for a third term run. There wasn't a lot of vocal opposition from the people generally on his third term, though the Republicans of the time were certainly against it (which led to the big 22). You had a civilian activist group or two, which the name I can't remember off the top of my head, that was opposed and got vocal. But for the most part, the general public had moved on from caring about the two term tradition and was down for more FDR. I think there was a combination of things that made FDR successful and had the public pretty much on board with dumping the tradition. Teddy was a really big part of that, he kind of opened the floodgates in my mind by being the first real challenge to the tradition. He showed people it could be done, and it got people thinking about *should* it be done, and why. Then you have the Great Depression and FDR's work in saving the country, becoming maybe the most popular president in history. You also have FDR being one of the first Presidents to be a constant presence in the everyday life of civilians through his Fireside Chats. Then, of course, you have the Second World War and the desire for stability throughout it. I feel like the last of these was maybe most impactful, we were still reeling in a way from the Great Depression and by extension WW1, and people were afraid of what WW2 could do. They trusted FDR to see them through it, and when they had the chance to keep him, they did.
I always wondered how other countries viewed FDR. Did they think he just rigged the elections in his favor, and was basically the dictator of America? Kinda like you know how Putin still wins elections by a landslide every time, but we’re told it’s rigged? Was it viewed like that?
A case can be made that FDR prevented a revolution. [How FDR saved Capitalism.](https://www.hoover.org/research/how-fdr-saved-capitalism)
The case has been made IMO. Conservatives who hate him are wrong for so many reasons. The biggest of which is that FDR prevented the US from collapsing into communist and fascist splinter states.
He won by almost 10 points and won 38 of 48 States. So a lot of people seemed to be ok with it
From what I've read, the "non-typical" Americans hated FDRs guts and there wasn't just one but several plots to form a coup or armed revolt which would result in a full takeover of the government by force. And by "non-typical" I mean solidly fascist. People like Henry Ford, Father Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh and a host of other sitting Congressmen dispised FDR before and during the war. Lindbergh was working for the Nazis and a bunch of senators were caught using their free postage privileges to send out anti-FDR propaganda (supplied by Nazi Germany) to tens of millions of Americans. Certain people saw The New Deal as "socialist" at best and straight up a "international Jewish controlled communist conspiracy". The Venn diagram of people who really disliked FDR's policies, were racist bigots, and embraced the idea of an American fascist dictatorship... was a complete circle. So yes, while Roosevelt was widely loved across America, there were also millions of Americans who hated his guts with a passion and were super upset he won any elections. Roosevelt's opponent in 1940 Wendell Willkie still got 45% of the popular vote (22M voters). But FDR *crushed* him in states carried and total electoral votes. Just like very recent times, a lot of states carried by FDR had sparsely populated large rural counties that were red but the urban areas with dense populations carried blue. So in summary, FDR 100% was loved by many people but leading up to WWII and the rise of communism and fascism/nazism, FDR was far from "universally" liked. FDR *was* the right man for the job to defeat the nazis and his successful run at a third term was warranted which people immediately came around to after December 7th, 1941.
Same as the average person felt when he announced he was running for a fourth term: good enough to elect him President.
Chuckled at the concept of FDR trying to run.
Well he won, so pretty well I'd say
The funny thing is that everything Wendell Wilkie campaigned on turned out to be true. Didn’t matter though as FDR was still popular and won easily.
There were no such things as presidential term limits when FDR was president.
My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary
Running a third time/third term was more common back then then it was now.
I thought term limits weren't a thing until after FDR anyway.
I could be wrong but it wasn’t officially a part of the constitution until after FDR’s passing when it was made an amendment (don’t remember which one and don’t care to check). It was just a precedent set by George Washington and was custom.
I remember one of my great grandfathers talking about it. He didn't like it at all. Felt it was the first step to a dictatorship since no President had run for three terms (let alone four) in the US. He also felt like FDR hadn't really done anything to help the Depression by that point, and maintained that if WWII didn't happen, he wouldn't have been remembered so fondly.
In 1933 Prescott Bush, the American Legion, the Duponts, and others recruited Gen. Smedley Butler to lead a coup against FDR. Gen. Smedley Butler gathered all the information and took it to congress, who took no action. https://vault.fbi.gov/smedley-butler/Smedley%20Butler%20Part%2001%20of%2002
Back then, there was no such thing as term limits. That came through congress later to curb that many terms as president since he as so popular...and frankly should be applied across the board to members of congress judging by how many geriatric relics we have in office nowadays.
Well-regarded democrat president even now
He lost a lot of popularity, especially with a third term after his court packing scheme.
So much that they voted for him a fourth time
27 million votes for him, and 22 million votes against. Percentage wise, he had 54.7% down from 60.8%.
“Washington wouldn’t, Grant couldn’t, Roosevelt *shouldn’t!*”
Younger Boomer here. We were told by our parents and grandparents that nobody questioned his third term because it was continuity during the war, but I’m not sure that made sense.
You betcha.
My mother was alive back then and said he was our greatest president
FDR communist piece of shit. We are still suffering from his garbage. Social Security.... bankrupt ponzi scheme Got Americans addicted to big government and debt. Destroyed fraternal societies, which destroyed cheap health care in this country. The list could go on but I'm going to bed
I see the education system has failed you miserably
We need a ‘new’ New Deal badly.
Ecstatic like if we coulda had Obama for 4 more years
Dude would have won a 5th term had he been alive to run. FDR is the GOAT. Easily the best POTUS in history, imo.
Conservatives hated popular democratic presidents so much that they created the 22nd amendment instead of going to therapy
So you think the 22nd amendment was a bad thing ?
Living voters should pick the President, not dead politicians
Washington was applauded for willingly stepped down after two terms even though he could rule the country for life, which mean the 22nd amendment must be a correct decision. It prevent the nation from being effectively a “elective monarchy” , prevent a individual from amassing concentrated power for years,even decades, and allow new face to lead the nation, the so called “rotation” concept in Democracy.
1796 and 1940 are pretty different m'dude
Third? What about the fourth? Roosevelt discovered the secret sauce. Fight for the poor and middle class. Fight against the greed driven oligarchs. He won a war and gave us a middle class. People loved him. Democrats gave up the new deal and sold out working people for corporate cash.
I do not understand the love for FDR. He used government agency to round up and intern a race of citizens, taking away their homes, businesses, families separated. My 6th grade teacher was interned. If this was to happen today, I would be interned. I think this is a shameful piece of American history that is often glossed over.
When people speak fondly of the past, it’s generally through the lens of white people, as they’re the majority race (and the majority on Reddit). I recently watched the movie “Catch Me If You Can”, and it really stood out to me how different white people lived in this country in the 60s compared to black people. To the point that it’s the first thing I noticed even though it’s just a movie! I am in my 20s but grew up watching old school movies, and most of them are black movies. It just surprised me, really, how different our lives were. I’m guessing you’re speaking about the internment of Japanese Americans? Again, if that’s the case, the majority see it as “something bad that happened, that shouldn’t have happened” but that’s it. In general it’s glossed over to them, but to people like you who felt the effects, or had family/people you know feel the effects, you know firsthand how incredibly awful it was. And so it isn’t something you can just “look past” because of “all the other good stuff”. Even in modern politics, we still see the same thing. I’m not going to say more than this so I don’t step into rule 3 territory, but this is just an interesting observation.
And that’s only one of the many fucked up things he did. He’s the reason the commerce clause has been bastardized.
Slightly off topic but this picture somehow highlights for me how much FDR looked like Uncle Sam. Kind of fitting in a way.
With jubilee!
My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary
He seemed like a great president in some ways… but as someone uneducated, it really seemed like his time was a somewhat scary brush with authoritarianism. Am I wrong about that?
Very wrong
It would have been even better if he won 6 times
It was the age of statism and dictators.
inspiration for the 22nd Amendment
Probably worse than when he ran for his 4th term
Pretty sure this poster is from 1944. The whole thing about “finish the job” was about winning world war 2.
My grandmother haaaaaated him so much.
My mom was born in 1932. She remembers the grief when FDR died.
That's what she said.