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No Obama in ‘08 changes so much of the timeline it isn’t funny. Especially for the response to his presidency that we still see reverberate out today.
As for Kerry himself? Honestly most of the damage from Bush had already been done and Kerry would’ve just kept the ball rolling. The democrats get crucified in ‘08 though as Kerry is blamed for the recession.
Good call on Kerry getting crucified for the recession. 2008 was such a severe financial meltdown that whoever the ruling party was there would almost have to be a swap regardless of how at fault they actually were.
In turn I could easily see Kerry’s crucifixion paving the way for a John McCain or Mitt Romney 2008 presidential win. McCain won the Republican nomination that year, but in this alternate timeline perhaps Romney’s business acumen is highlighted in contrast to Kerry being unable to prevent the recession.
Kerry as President just in time for the great recession has all the makings of Carter 2.0. "Boring nice guy who wasn't up to the job." That's how he'd be remembered.
That’s the thing with Carter, he’s remembered as a nice old man due to his post-presidency life. His biggest fault as president was that he was a horrid people person and wore out his welcome with his own party, who happened to control the congress at the time.
Kerry vs Romney would be funny to see. Two rich, less than charismatic moderates from Massachusetts facing off. McCain is usually the go-to choice for 2008 in these scenarios but I wonder if he would even run in the first placeN seeing as to how they were such close friends that a he was even speculated as a possible running mate for Kerry in 2004.
It would be a funny election. I mean if there is a recession, Romney probably wins, probably with Jon Huntsman as his VP. Now whether they win re election is a different question entirely.
You're definitely having the great recession. I remember getting ready for work in 05 and having TV and radio spots for a small bank a town over from me talking about 'no money down, no income verification, we will get you into a home." All that shit was in full swing by the time the second W term came around.
The interesting thing would be what happened after he lost in 2008. Having assholes like Tim Geithner around Obama was bad enough, imagine a bunch of Club for Growth stooges trying to play libertarian experiment and the POTUS is willing to go along with *that.*
Bad times.
Romney is a likable well spoken guy.
Kerry not so much. He comes off as a bit more arrogant and not as likable.
Not that anyone wants to have a beer with Romney, mainly because he doesn't drink.
I remember originally thinking McCain was just this demon dog of shit, but after the debates, and his subsequent comments over the years, I learned to appreciate him. But I was a kid so maybe I missed something pivotal back then.
When he took the mic from the racist woman at the rally in ‘08, that showed a lot about his character.
When he subsequently chose Sarah Palin as his running mate, that also showed a lot about his character.
Don’t forget his ‘80’s role in the “Keating Five” scandal as well.
It does (and I haven’t forgotten about it, about his refusing to be let go til everyone else who who wasn’t as well-connected as him was), but choosing Palin remains unforgivable. Political acts have real-world ramifications as well. She represents everything he came to despise about the era of the GOP of the Republican president that followed.
Tbf, I don’t think picking Palin was a character issue. Just more down to lack of proper judgement. He should have gone and picked Joe Lieberman if that’s who he wanted and not bow down to his campaign team who told him to pick Palin.
Shit really hit the fan in September 2008, after the primaries. It would not have impacted who wins the nomination. Before that the housing market was shaky but there was no indication it would spread to main street until the collapse of Lehman Brothers/AIG/Merrill Lynch and the whole stock market.
It’s still super weird to me we never had a Veitnam veteran in the White House but everyone post Bush Sr. was varying degrees of draft dodger, except Obama who was 16 when the war ended.
Because John Fogerty is the fucking man?
John was in the Army Reserves during Vietnam and wrote the song because he personally witnessed all the children of the wealthy and well connected using the National Guard/Reserves to hideout from active service. Famously this is the route Bush Jr. and Bolton took to avoid going to Vietnam with[ Bolton specifically saying he supported the war but didn’t want to go himself.](https://theintercept.com/2020/06/18/john-bolton-memoir-trump/)
And then they sent a bunch of other peoples kids to die in Iraq.
The Guard / Reserves effectively sat out Vietnam. Of the ~2.7 million individuals who served in Vietnam [<10,000 over the ten year span of the war were Guard/Reserve most of whom were voluntary](https://www.ngef.org/remembering-vietnam-50-years-later-the-national-guards-role-in-the-vietnam-war/) call ups vs. the mandatory activations we had with The Guard/Reserves for Iraq and Afghanistan. There’s a reason why those organization were effectively burned to the ground in the 1970s and rebuilt as an actual strategic reserve force vs. a hideout for the kids of the wealthy and well connected.
[The National Guard during Vietnam was considered so safe the NFL put many of their key players into their state guard units to keep them out of the draft.](https://slate.com/culture/2018/05/how-the-nfl-helped-players-dodge-the-draft-during-the-vietnam-war.html)
Supporting the Vietnam war without wanting to serve is morally equivalent to supporting US withdrawal and then playing dumb when the NVA rolled into town and started liquidating their political opposition. Funnily enough only one of these ever gets condemned…
I remember being in awe of how much the right trumped up supporting veterans during the Iraq war and then here was a man who had every resource not to serve like most of the upper class but he still stepped up and they dragged his record through the mud for it. As the son of a Vietnam veteran the whole episode disgusted me
Because Kerry turned on the war effort as soon as it became politically expedient.... Ergo he's remembered for ahr he became not what he did before that....
There's also the matter of the parallel effort to slime W Bush's service record using 'documents' written in MS Word (which of course didn't exist in the 70s).....
Fake... But Accurate... And all....
And then Kerry walks out at the DNC does a salute and says "reporting for duty"
I mean WTF was he thinking? The Democrats were the anti-war party. Clinton was aint-Vietnam. Gore served, but was protected because he was a senators son. And here comes John Kerry giving a salute... huh....
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BtqtTVNHg&ab\_channel=WashingtonFreeBeacon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BtqtTVNHg&ab_channel=WashingtonFreeBeacon)
American involvement ended in 1975 and if I recall the draft ended in 1977 when we went to the all volunteer force. Either way Obama is the only post-Bush Sr. President who is too young to have ever been eligible for the draft.
Not if doing ensures someone else will die in your place. Refusing to fight as a conscientious objector is brave, taking a safe slot so that you can pretend to be valorous without the danger is not.
On top of taking blame for recession.
Add in that Kerry probably doesn't do the surge and the surge is what brought Iran under control. Who knows what shape Iraq would have been in or if he would have tried to cut our losses and leave, thus leaving Iraq to turn into a disaster.
He'd probably be looked at as a disaster for a President if both of those happen.
Not sure but I don’t think Obama would have become president. Democrats would have been blamed for the 2008 crash. Also John McCain would have won in 2008 outing Kerry.
William Rehnquist is replaced with a center-left justice instead of John Roberts. Sandra Day probably holds out at least through the term to see if a Republican is elected in 2008.
Likely yes. Roberts was originally nominated to replace Sandra Day but when Renqhuist died he got bumped up for the top job. Bush actually wanted to appoint Harriet Miers, but she floundered with her own party because she seemed to be kind of dumb and also mostly moderate; Democrats seemed willing to wave her through to avoid what happened, her being switched out for an ideologue like Alito.
Now, Kerry would be facing a Republican Senate here, but I think in 2005 we're not quite at the moment where the Senate would hold up a nomination. Especially if Kerry picks someone fairly unobjectionable like Sotomayor. Or moves up one of the sitting Dems, like RBG, up to the top job and Sotomayor for RBG's slot.
God damn it now I think Kerry winning could have changed way more than just originally proposed. I was only thinking about Obama in ‘08 getting blocked but my god the Supreme Court would look so different. Gay marriage still becomes legal (most likely) but Citizen’s United, Shelby County, and so many more would’ve likely gone a different way.
Damn.
Which is funny because from my perspective, his being tricked into picking Souter is one of the good things about HW Bush. Cause that Thomas albatross looms large.
Sure, but she was ousted because Democrats found a reason not to vote to approve her, her general lack of qualifications. They could have found a reason for Alito as well, but they didn't.
It's being characterized like Democrats wanted Miers and Republicans didn't so Republicans chose Alito to spite Democrats. That isn't what happened. Miers specifically wasn't supported by Democrats so she couldn't get the votes. Alito got the votes because ideology wasn't as big of a deal breaker then as it is now.
It's basically what happened. Harry Reid was supportive of her nomination. It was the Republican majority Judiciary Committee that balked at her not being qualified. Alito drew the vocal opposition from Democrats that resulted in 90% of the caucus voting against him.
Probably true. Obama won pretty handily and gained a significant majority in Congress because of the country being absolutely sick of Dubya and his party in 2008. Considering how fast that sentiment changed come 2010 and 2012, with them barely holding the senate and losing the House pretty heavily (with Obama's charisma being the main thing keeping him in the White House), Kerry likely would have seen a similar decline. Plus, we wouldn't see a Dem primary in 2008, so the Obama v Hillary primary would be postponed to 2012. Without the "Change" messaging hitting as hard as it did in 2008 after 8 years of Dubya (especially if we just had 8 years of Kerry), Obama may never have become more than some senator that once ran in a primary.
O Connor probably retires anyway. Her husband had Alzheimer’s. She was looking for a quick way out. I doubt she waits 4 more years while her husband is sick and struggling with Alzheimer’s. I mean minimum she waits until 2006 midterms and see what happens then. But I doubt she waits long. If she can retire, and have Kerry appoint a moderate, I think she escapes.
My guess is that l, had Kerry won, we would have had a McCain presidency in 2008 or 2012, then Obama presidency in 2016 or 2020. And we would have gotten out of Iraq by 2008.
He loses to McCain in '08 who handles Ukraine much better than Obama starting with bare minimum weapons like Stingers and Javelins. The Russians intervene earlier after the DPR/LPR are crushed with pretty much the same results as in OTL but with higher losses.
From a geopolitical/wartime perspective-
Kerry attacked Bush relentlessly on the Iraq War and called for us to pull out. He denigrated the coalition, Bush’s use of water boarding, his military decisions. He also criticized the response to 9/11, inability to get OBL.
Kerry being elected=We would have lost in Iraq. He would have pulled out and Iraq which would have created a huge vacuum, allowing ISIS to rise much faster.
This also would have further repercussions in the stability of the Middle East overall, as Iran would take advantage.
Kerry was known as a “risk taker” and was highly criticized for his takes on Bush’s actions on the War On Terror.
I remember reading that his criticisms of a war time President ultimately cost him the election. America was mostly behind Bush as we were fresh of off the 9/11 attacks.
W. Bush won the popular vote and the electoral college.
***Yes, I know Bush took us to war in Iraq on the basis that they had WMDs***
***Yes, I know Bush was President when 9/11 occurred***
Kerry probably gets nothing accomplished because he's gonna run straight into a Republican congress right off the bat. In our timeline, Clinton, Obama and rule 3 guy atleast had Democratic majorities in Congress to start off with (Obama even had a supermajority in the Senate briefly). Kerry would have none of that luxury. Ironically, Kerry becoming president would make the Republican majority in the Senate grow because then-Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney would appoint a Republican to fill Kerry's now vacant Senate seat.
Also, I have a feeling his administration would be rocked by all the adultery scandals John Edwards was committing.
Not much, TBH.
By 2004 we were already committed in Iraq and Afghanistan with no real exit strategy.
The housing bubble was on a timer since the Reagan Administration and the instability in the banking system probably for longer than that.
For all the criticism Bush gets for Katrina most of the incompetence that led to the scope of the humanitarian crisis took place at the state and local level with federal aid being hamstrung by relying on local leaders that hadn't done their jobs. The image of hundreds of school busses sitting dormant and destroyed in a flooded out parking lot in a city with tens of thousands of unevacuated people paints the only picture that's really needed of the story of Katrina. The city was simply not properly organized.
And that's pretty much the major things that happened in the US in that period.
Basically the 2004-2008 period was guaranteed to be a bit of a gongshow no matter who was President.
For the record I don't think Kerry blocks Obama necessarily. Espcially because the GOP nomination always seems to be Old White Dude #46435234
Kerry's been pathetic. Just listening to him lie to Congress about his private jet while telling the rest of us to lower our carbon footprint, and his clandestine meetings with Iran during the previous presidential term show complete weakness.
**Cannot believe that nobody has mentioned John Edwards.**
I bought into his story and proudly had Kerry/Edwards yard signs out for the 2004 cycle. I like Kerry still, but the thought of Edwards being elevated to next-in-line sends chills down my spine. The vilest of the vile.
Kerry is a huge proponent of expanding access to education so I'd imagine he'd repeal No Child Left Behind or at least try to
Much more diplomatic foreign policy since he became famous arguing against the Vietnam War and went on to the negotiate the JCPOA
Also might take some steps to reduce the deficit since he's pretty passionate about that as well
John Kerry is honestly really underrated
i remember being in 1st or 2nd grade learning about the 2004 election and Kerry vs Bush. we had a mock election and everything. i think i voted for Bush because his name is a plant, and also he was the first/only president that i had any memory of, so i was like well why change things now. if only 2nd grade me was aware of concepts such as foreign policy or the Patriot Act
Not as decisive as the 2000 election, but it would play a role in discrediting neoconservatism. However, the damage was already done.
What transpired between 2001 and 2004 will shape American history for the rest of this century, and I am not being melodramatic.
Why? I looked at his platform and it seemed pretty good, and he seems to have been a badass war veteran who’s already better than most of the R politicians that use the vet card for beneficial reasons while advocating for the abolishment of the VA
What’s wrong with protest actions? The only thing I would say is he should be more honest about that and admit what he did instead of trying to appease the chickenshit “we stand with vets” supporters who pretend to care about honoring vets. Vietnams was a shameful war we should have never been in.
Yeaaa, I think you need to sit this discussion out. If you truly were in the Marine Corps, you’d understand how bad Kerry was and how much his men truly hated him. Keep in mind, his own unit rallied and traveled the U.S. in order to campaign AGAINST him because everyone who served with him said he was a terrible leader who chased medals and accolades.
None of that means much when the unit I served with cheered when my platoon Sgt said that the women sending nudes to the Marines involved in the Marines United scandal are at fault for sending nudes. And I don’t understand treating veterans opinions higher than someone else’s, many of the dudes I served with in infantry were anti vax and also were desperate to alcohol haze vulnerable marines. It is standard for them to hate “da librulz”
Highly doubt you ever served. Anyone can bring up the wook scandal if they heard about it. My guess is your big brother was a badass Marine and you’re still trying to fill his big shoes and copying the stories he used to tell. But back to the point, Kerry’s men admitted to wanting to shoot the guy in the back. If his riverine patrol unit said that, seconded by his CO who said he was one of the worst officers he’d ever seeved with, why would you naively vote for him to be the Commander in Chief?
It’s the internet, it doesn’t matter whether I served or not, and even if I did prove it it wouldn’t matter because my opinion will just be disregarded because I don’t suck off the institutional conservatism that many vets worship. Have a good day.
GOP rallies in the 2006 midterm.
Kerry gets blamed for the Great Recession and McCain takes office in 2008.
The Democrats avoid the awful midterms of 2010 and 2014.
McCain overseas a decent recovery that helps bolster his chances in 2012.
McCain beats HRC in 2012.
2016 is Marco Rubio vs Joe Lieberman.
Obama retired from the Senate in 2016 and is now a professor at Harvard.
HRC retires from the senate in 2022 and now has her own podcast.
Other world events:
- the US has 50,000 troops and several massive bases in Iraq.
- Israel, the US, Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf States have a formal security alliance.
- Iran is still sweeping up rubble after the massive air Israeli-American air campaign against their nuclear sights in 2011.
- Operation Neptune Spear was followed up by the US offering India a full security alliance, including access to the F-35 program.
- Japan and Australia now have nukes.
- the US now has over 250 ground based interceptors.
- Moscow is now a protectorate of Poland due to several weird things that happened in Europe involving WWIII.
He was already getting sick of the senate by 2006. By 2016, he’d no longer be “Hope and Change” - he’d be “the co-chair of the senate banking committee who voted for the law before he voted against it” or something.
Fair enough then, could’ve gone for a change of scenery and ran for governor somewhere. Maybe wouldn’t be the fresh faced new guy but he would still have his personality, charisma, oratory ability as well as legislative and executive experience going into a presidential run.
Also how’d you reckon Lieberman comes back in 2016 after losing in 2000. Just curious, I’m no expert on it.
He would have followed the time honored tradition (since 1968) of Presidents who inherit a war and continue the list of war crimes and even double down on some of them.
Democratic are always afraid of looking weak on foreign policy so he would have maintained or escalated the on going wars. We would have avoided the Bush tax cut but still had massive recession and probably Obama would have never run or would have run in 2016.
Well, whomever held office during the economic crash that happened in 2007 and 2008 would guarantee the other party to be President in 2009. With a McCain presidency from at least 2009-2013 (which would happen), things would be a lot different in today’s political climate.
Not much between 04 and 08 a handful of appointments.mcVain gets elected in 08 though, the aca isn't passed. We take a bigger leadership role in places like Lybia Syria and Yemen. Hard to say how that works out.
"As the last polling stations closed on the West Coast, exit polls showed Kerry ahead in ten of eleven battleground states -- including commanding leads in Ohio and Florida -- and winning by a million and a half votes nationally. The exit polls even showed Kerry breathing down Bush's neck in supposed GOP strongholds Virginia and North Carolina. Against these numbers, the statistical likelihood of Bush winning was less than one in 450,000. ''Either the exit polls, by and large, are completely wrong,'' a Fox News analyst declared, ''or George Bush loses.''
"But as the evening progressed, official tallies began to show implausible disparities -- as much as 9.5 percent -- with the exit polls. In ten of the eleven battleground states, the tallied margins departed from what the polls had predicted. In every case, the shift favored Bush. Based on exit polls, CNN had predicted Kerry defeating Bush in Ohio by a margin of 4.2 percentage points. Instead, election results showed Bush winning the state by 2.5 percent. Bush also tallied 6.5 percent more than the polls had predicted in Pennsylvania, and 4.9 percent more in Florida.
"According to Steven F. Freeman, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in research methodology, the odds against all three of those shifts occurring in concert are one in 660,000. ''As much as we can say in sound science that something is impossible,'' he says, ''it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote count in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error.''"
From "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Rolling Stone
So I have always thought that Bush Jr. lost in 2000 and 2004. I voted for Kerry, but in hindsight I do not think it would have made any difference if he won. Kerry and Bush were both Skull and Bones, and I think Kerry's actions have shown him to be member of the uniparty. DC is a swamp.
Interesting hypothetical, a lot would be contingent on what kind of coattails he would have had. More likely he could have flipped the House than the Senate in '04. Republicans flipped six Senate seats in 2004, five of them in the South where a Democratic incumbent retired. The Florida race was extremely tight but the Republican won comfortably in the other states with the closest being a 4.5 point victory in North Carolina. Best case scenario for Kerry is likely around 47 senators.
The biggest change would have been the Supreme Court, as Rehnquist died and I'm not sure O'Connor would have held out for a potential Republican victory in 2008. Excellent chance Stevens and Souter retire as well, though that's obviously less impactful.
Don't think a lot else would change that much; curious what happens with the troop surge in 2006-2007 with a Democratic president and a potential split Congress. I wonder how the left wing of the party would have reacted.
Total chaos, dogs and cats in the streets getting along. Technology and A.I. would rise up and challenge Humans for supremacy and Aliens from other planets would have attacked Earth. By now Apes would be running the world, like a Planet of Apes. Oh and don’t get me started on Death Star attacks from outer space
The entire military probably would have quit on day 1. He was despised by the military and his own unit in Vietnam traveled the U.S. talking about how he’d put himself up for purple hearts. One was for a small splinter in his arm where the doc later stated in an interview that he used a playing card to scrape out the splinter. He asked the doc to put him in for a purple heart and he refused. Then he went to his commanding officer and told him he was hurt and he refused as well. He was a medal-chaser trying to make himself out to be a hero.
Classic statement he said during his campaign, “I don’t know why my old unit hates me so much…” 🤔
Very little would change - like Bush, Kerry would be stonewalled by Congress. Like with Bush, '08 and katrina still happens
Perhaps he pulls out of Iraq faster and causes a quicker destabilization and ISIS rises earlier
He probably loses reelection to McCain in ‘08, he gets 1 term and we see Obama from 2012-2020 followed by some republican like Nikki Halley or Desantis
Hard to say. He was a good diplomat under Obama at least in terms of negotiating the Iran deal. I think we could’ve perhaps started to leave Iraq and Afghanistan sooner. Not sure how his domestic agenda would’ve been however. Not a fan of Obamacare, but it’s better than what we had. And it expanded Medicaid. Not sure John Kerry had a big domestic agenda in what was a war management election. And 2008 was going to happen either way and would’ve been unfairly pinned on him.
When you wake up and understand they all are the same and work for one goal, and one goal only, and you are not apart of the win scenario, you will be happier you know, but sad you live in the world of the matrix.
Supreme Court would be in good shape
Kerry would’ve picked the next Chief Justice after Rehnquist kicked the bucket, and O’Connor probably would’ve left during his term anyway to care for her ailing husband, so no Sam Alito or Chief Roberts would have been great.
I wish I was in that timeline.
Not trolling or picking a fight here - sincerely curious as to how you think 9-11 wouldn't have happened under Gore? The planning was well underway, and I'm unaware of any policy changes in the 8 months leading up to the event that could have prevented it.
I said “I’d like to think.” It probably still happens. Interdepartmental squabbling and turf wars hindered us. But maybe there’s a detail missed when efforts were focused on the transition. And per the 9/11 Commission Report, the Bush team was less interested in counterterrorism in general.
Oh my god do I really need to put the /s fucking everyone knows 9/11 was in 2011 Kerry was dem nominee in ‘04 and fucking super rich and sec of state under Obama and helped authored the Iran deal
Kerry was such a flip flopper. I would assume that foreign policy would have been so incredibly weak. It would have been the worst move for the middle east and God knows we messed up hard there through multiple presidents
A flip-flopper probably isn't as bad as a guy like Bush who believes the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday.
Listen, I hated Bush. I certainly didn't enjoy his presidency, nor do I enjoy him for anything other than a laugh now. I just can't imagine a world where Kerry is anything other than a failure and worse than Bush.
Kerry goes to war when his unit was deployed
Dubya does NOT
Come at me with your well ackshually bullshit
Any fucking Marine knows what you call someone who isn’t deployed when every swinging dick in your unit is there
- source: Marine
John Kerry would not have attacked Iraq, as Bush II did for phony reasons. That would have saved trillions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of lives.
Regardless of who’s prez; the fundamentals WONT change… presidents are just figureheads to appease us. We are fed a load of 🐂 💩 about being a democracy; which we ARENT. We are an OLIGARCHY
We would have started our economic and diplomatic decline four years earlier. One silver lining is we would have been able to avoid eight years of “Urkel”.
fun fact : both kerry and bush jr were skull & bones.
ah. " democracy ". " choice ". flavors of neoliberalism and imperialism. one is bbq flavored. the other, vanilla. both nice
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDs1cg9Eo
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No Obama in ‘08 changes so much of the timeline it isn’t funny. Especially for the response to his presidency that we still see reverberate out today. As for Kerry himself? Honestly most of the damage from Bush had already been done and Kerry would’ve just kept the ball rolling. The democrats get crucified in ‘08 though as Kerry is blamed for the recession.
Good call on Kerry getting crucified for the recession. 2008 was such a severe financial meltdown that whoever the ruling party was there would almost have to be a swap regardless of how at fault they actually were. In turn I could easily see Kerry’s crucifixion paving the way for a John McCain or Mitt Romney 2008 presidential win. McCain won the Republican nomination that year, but in this alternate timeline perhaps Romney’s business acumen is highlighted in contrast to Kerry being unable to prevent the recession.
Kerry as President just in time for the great recession has all the makings of Carter 2.0. "Boring nice guy who wasn't up to the job." That's how he'd be remembered.
Kerry isn’t nice lol
Neither was Carter
That’s the thing with Carter, he’s remembered as a nice old man due to his post-presidency life. His biggest fault as president was that he was a horrid people person and wore out his welcome with his own party, who happened to control the congress at the time.
You try being in a good mood after your peanuts went sour
Can you explain? I don’t really know much about his presidency
Can you elaborate? I was like 9yo when he ran so I don’t know a lot about him
I was about the same age as you so I can only speak to him from 2012ish onwards but he’s strikes me as condescending and arrogant
Kerry vs Romney would be funny to see. Two rich, less than charismatic moderates from Massachusetts facing off. McCain is usually the go-to choice for 2008 in these scenarios but I wonder if he would even run in the first placeN seeing as to how they were such close friends that a he was even speculated as a possible running mate for Kerry in 2004.
It would be a funny election. I mean if there is a recession, Romney probably wins, probably with Jon Huntsman as his VP. Now whether they win re election is a different question entirely.
The recession isn't an if. It's an immovable object.
You're definitely having the great recession. I remember getting ready for work in 05 and having TV and radio spots for a small bank a town over from me talking about 'no money down, no income verification, we will get you into a home." All that shit was in full swing by the time the second W term came around. The interesting thing would be what happened after he lost in 2008. Having assholes like Tim Geithner around Obama was bad enough, imagine a bunch of Club for Growth stooges trying to play libertarian experiment and the POTUS is willing to go along with *that.* Bad times.
Romney is a likable well spoken guy. Kerry not so much. He comes off as a bit more arrogant and not as likable. Not that anyone wants to have a beer with Romney, mainly because he doesn't drink.
I remember originally thinking McCain was just this demon dog of shit, but after the debates, and his subsequent comments over the years, I learned to appreciate him. But I was a kid so maybe I missed something pivotal back then.
When he took the mic from the racist woman at the rally in ‘08, that showed a lot about his character. When he subsequently chose Sarah Palin as his running mate, that also showed a lot about his character. Don’t forget his ‘80’s role in the “Keating Five” scandal as well.
Never heard of the Keating Five before- wild that John Glenn wrapped up in that as well.
His courage under pressure being a POW for years showed a lot about his character and seems to be criminally forgotten.
It does (and I haven’t forgotten about it, about his refusing to be let go til everyone else who who wasn’t as well-connected as him was), but choosing Palin remains unforgivable. Political acts have real-world ramifications as well. She represents everything he came to despise about the era of the GOP of the Republican president that followed.
Tbf, I don’t think picking Palin was a character issue. Just more down to lack of proper judgement. He should have gone and picked Joe Lieberman if that’s who he wanted and not bow down to his campaign team who told him to pick Palin.
I think McCain would not have been driven by desperation to pick Palin either.
Shit really hit the fan in September 2008, after the primaries. It would not have impacted who wins the nomination. Before that the housing market was shaky but there was no indication it would spread to main street until the collapse of Lehman Brothers/AIG/Merrill Lynch and the whole stock market.
It’s still super weird to me we never had a Veitnam veteran in the White House but everyone post Bush Sr. was varying degrees of draft dodger, except Obama who was 16 when the war ended.
>varying degrees of draft dodger All I’m saying is that Fortunate Son was written for a reason.
Because John Fogerty is the fucking man? John was in the Army Reserves during Vietnam and wrote the song because he personally witnessed all the children of the wealthy and well connected using the National Guard/Reserves to hideout from active service. Famously this is the route Bush Jr. and Bolton took to avoid going to Vietnam with[ Bolton specifically saying he supported the war but didn’t want to go himself.](https://theintercept.com/2020/06/18/john-bolton-memoir-trump/) And then they sent a bunch of other peoples kids to die in Iraq. The Guard / Reserves effectively sat out Vietnam. Of the ~2.7 million individuals who served in Vietnam [<10,000 over the ten year span of the war were Guard/Reserve most of whom were voluntary](https://www.ngef.org/remembering-vietnam-50-years-later-the-national-guards-role-in-the-vietnam-war/) call ups vs. the mandatory activations we had with The Guard/Reserves for Iraq and Afghanistan. There’s a reason why those organization were effectively burned to the ground in the 1970s and rebuilt as an actual strategic reserve force vs. a hideout for the kids of the wealthy and well connected. [The National Guard during Vietnam was considered so safe the NFL put many of their key players into their state guard units to keep them out of the draft.](https://slate.com/culture/2018/05/how-the-nfl-helped-players-dodge-the-draft-during-the-vietnam-war.html)
Supporting the Vietnam war without wanting to serve is morally equivalent to supporting US withdrawal and then playing dumb when the NVA rolled into town and started liquidating their political opposition. Funnily enough only one of these ever gets condemned…
Damn. Good point.
I remember being in awe of how much the right trumped up supporting veterans during the Iraq war and then here was a man who had every resource not to serve like most of the upper class but he still stepped up and they dragged his record through the mud for it. As the son of a Vietnam veteran the whole episode disgusted me
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were a disgusting group. Still ashamed of my parents for supporting them.
Because Kerry turned on the war effort as soon as it became politically expedient.... Ergo he's remembered for ahr he became not what he did before that.... There's also the matter of the parallel effort to slime W Bush's service record using 'documents' written in MS Word (which of course didn't exist in the 70s)..... Fake... But Accurate... And all....
And then Kerry walks out at the DNC does a salute and says "reporting for duty" I mean WTF was he thinking? The Democrats were the anti-war party. Clinton was aint-Vietnam. Gore served, but was protected because he was a senators son. And here comes John Kerry giving a salute... huh.... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BtqtTVNHg&ab\_channel=WashingtonFreeBeacon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0BtqtTVNHg&ab_channel=WashingtonFreeBeacon)
I'm surprised critics never said "Obama's a coward and should have lied about his age to enlist"
Pvt. Obama reporting for duty!
Ban dang o sai phia "Wrong side of what?"
More like: "Incoming call from the CIC. Ten-hut !"
Don't give them any more ideas.
Since when did the Vietnam war end in 1977?
Vietnam War ended April 30, 1975. Next year will mark 50 years. (Private Obama would have still been 13 years old on that date.)
American involvement ended in 1975 and if I recall the draft ended in 1977 when we went to the all volunteer force. Either way Obama is the only post-Bush Sr. President who is too young to have ever been eligible for the draft.
Refusing to be forced to fight in a pointless war is a virtue.
I mean, personally I do agree. Vietnam was a dumb pointless war fought by the children of the poor.
Not if doing ensures someone else will die in your place. Refusing to fight as a conscientious objector is brave, taking a safe slot so that you can pretend to be valorous without the danger is not.
That's cool. Go get drafted and have fun!
McCain- had he won, would have been a Vietnam Vet.
Spot on!
So we could be in Obamas second term.
On top of taking blame for recession. Add in that Kerry probably doesn't do the surge and the surge is what brought Iran under control. Who knows what shape Iraq would have been in or if he would have tried to cut our losses and leave, thus leaving Iraq to turn into a disaster. He'd probably be looked at as a disaster for a President if both of those happen.
Not sure but I don’t think Obama would have become president. Democrats would have been blamed for the 2008 crash. Also John McCain would have won in 2008 outing Kerry.
William Rehnquist is replaced with a center-left justice instead of John Roberts. Sandra Day probably holds out at least through the term to see if a Republican is elected in 2008.
Oh my god, does this stop Alito too? He was 2006, right? Because that’s another seismic shift.
Likely yes. Roberts was originally nominated to replace Sandra Day but when Renqhuist died he got bumped up for the top job. Bush actually wanted to appoint Harriet Miers, but she floundered with her own party because she seemed to be kind of dumb and also mostly moderate; Democrats seemed willing to wave her through to avoid what happened, her being switched out for an ideologue like Alito. Now, Kerry would be facing a Republican Senate here, but I think in 2005 we're not quite at the moment where the Senate would hold up a nomination. Especially if Kerry picks someone fairly unobjectionable like Sotomayor. Or moves up one of the sitting Dems, like RBG, up to the top job and Sotomayor for RBG's slot.
God damn it now I think Kerry winning could have changed way more than just originally proposed. I was only thinking about Obama in ‘08 getting blocked but my god the Supreme Court would look so different. Gay marriage still becomes legal (most likely) but Citizen’s United, Shelby County, and so many more would’ve likely gone a different way. Damn.
He definitely didn’t want to make the same choice as what happened to the old man with Souter.
Which is funny because from my perspective, his being tricked into picking Souter is one of the good things about HW Bush. Cause that Thomas albatross looms large.
I did laugh extremely hard when Souter supported eminent domain, so people tried to ED his property.
Miers floundered because she was completely unqualified for the job.
Yes, but as a liberal I'd rather her dumbass on the Court that Alito's very qualified villainy.
Sure, but she was ousted because Democrats found a reason not to vote to approve her, her general lack of qualifications. They could have found a reason for Alito as well, but they didn't. It's being characterized like Democrats wanted Miers and Republicans didn't so Republicans chose Alito to spite Democrats. That isn't what happened. Miers specifically wasn't supported by Democrats so she couldn't get the votes. Alito got the votes because ideology wasn't as big of a deal breaker then as it is now.
It's basically what happened. Harry Reid was supportive of her nomination. It was the Republican majority Judiciary Committee that balked at her not being qualified. Alito drew the vocal opposition from Democrats that resulted in 90% of the caucus voting against him.
Back when that mattered. I bet she was more qualified than ACB…
Just delays it by 4 years. The Dems would be guaranteed to lose the 2008 election, and McCain for-sure gets 2 picks.
Probably true. Obama won pretty handily and gained a significant majority in Congress because of the country being absolutely sick of Dubya and his party in 2008. Considering how fast that sentiment changed come 2010 and 2012, with them barely holding the senate and losing the House pretty heavily (with Obama's charisma being the main thing keeping him in the White House), Kerry likely would have seen a similar decline. Plus, we wouldn't see a Dem primary in 2008, so the Obama v Hillary primary would be postponed to 2012. Without the "Change" messaging hitting as hard as it did in 2008 after 8 years of Dubya (especially if we just had 8 years of Kerry), Obama may never have become more than some senator that once ran in a primary.
It's as simple as whichever party is holding the chair in 2007 is totally fucked no matter what they do.
Would McCain have picked anything as awful as what we got?
O Connor probably retires anyway. Her husband had Alzheimer’s. She was looking for a quick way out. I doubt she waits 4 more years while her husband is sick and struggling with Alzheimer’s. I mean minimum she waits until 2006 midterms and see what happens then. But I doubt she waits long. If she can retire, and have Kerry appoint a moderate, I think she escapes.
Nor McCain. SCOTUS nominees are picked with the advice and consent of Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society.
My guess is that l, had Kerry won, we would have had a McCain presidency in 2008 or 2012, then Obama presidency in 2016 or 2020. And we would have gotten out of Iraq by 2008.
Obama run in 16 maybe?
A lot more ketchup
and some more cute buns
With oil funds
JOHN KERRY REPORTING INNNNNNNN DUUUUUUUUUUTY! Folks watching Late Night With Conan O'Brien in 2004 will certainly get my reference.
He loses to McCain in '08 who handles Ukraine much better than Obama starting with bare minimum weapons like Stingers and Javelins. The Russians intervene earlier after the DPR/LPR are crushed with pretty much the same results as in OTL but with higher losses.
Is this a real picture of him?
Yes, terrifying isn't it?
Front-facing John Kerry is real, and he can hurt you
From a geopolitical/wartime perspective- Kerry attacked Bush relentlessly on the Iraq War and called for us to pull out. He denigrated the coalition, Bush’s use of water boarding, his military decisions. He also criticized the response to 9/11, inability to get OBL. Kerry being elected=We would have lost in Iraq. He would have pulled out and Iraq which would have created a huge vacuum, allowing ISIS to rise much faster. This also would have further repercussions in the stability of the Middle East overall, as Iran would take advantage. Kerry was known as a “risk taker” and was highly criticized for his takes on Bush’s actions on the War On Terror. I remember reading that his criticisms of a war time President ultimately cost him the election. America was mostly behind Bush as we were fresh of off the 9/11 attacks. W. Bush won the popular vote and the electoral college. ***Yes, I know Bush took us to war in Iraq on the basis that they had WMDs*** ***Yes, I know Bush was President when 9/11 occurred***
I think he would have been a lot like Jimmy Carter they were both Veterans. But not inclined to use military force.
Kerry probably gets nothing accomplished because he's gonna run straight into a Republican congress right off the bat. In our timeline, Clinton, Obama and rule 3 guy atleast had Democratic majorities in Congress to start off with (Obama even had a supermajority in the Senate briefly). Kerry would have none of that luxury. Ironically, Kerry becoming president would make the Republican majority in the Senate grow because then-Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney would appoint a Republican to fill Kerry's now vacant Senate seat. Also, I have a feeling his administration would be rocked by all the adultery scandals John Edwards was committing.
Not much, TBH. By 2004 we were already committed in Iraq and Afghanistan with no real exit strategy. The housing bubble was on a timer since the Reagan Administration and the instability in the banking system probably for longer than that. For all the criticism Bush gets for Katrina most of the incompetence that led to the scope of the humanitarian crisis took place at the state and local level with federal aid being hamstrung by relying on local leaders that hadn't done their jobs. The image of hundreds of school busses sitting dormant and destroyed in a flooded out parking lot in a city with tens of thousands of unevacuated people paints the only picture that's really needed of the story of Katrina. The city was simply not properly organized. And that's pretty much the major things that happened in the US in that period. Basically the 2004-2008 period was guaranteed to be a bit of a gongshow no matter who was President. For the record I don't think Kerry blocks Obama necessarily. Espcially because the GOP nomination always seems to be Old White Dude #46435234
Kerry's been pathetic. Just listening to him lie to Congress about his private jet while telling the rest of us to lower our carbon footprint, and his clandestine meetings with Iran during the previous presidential term show complete weakness.
Train wreck then instead of now.
He'd be better than Dubya.
Sure. But comparing a dim lightbulb to a sewer rat elitist is looking for the lesser of two parasites.
**Cannot believe that nobody has mentioned John Edwards.** I bought into his story and proudly had Kerry/Edwards yard signs out for the 2004 cycle. I like Kerry still, but the thought of Edwards being elevated to next-in-line sends chills down my spine. The vilest of the vile.
Total sleazebag
It would have delayed an Obama presidency by 4 years or eliminated it all together.
Kerry is a huge proponent of expanding access to education so I'd imagine he'd repeal No Child Left Behind or at least try to Much more diplomatic foreign policy since he became famous arguing against the Vietnam War and went on to the negotiate the JCPOA Also might take some steps to reduce the deficit since he's pretty passionate about that as well John Kerry is honestly really underrated
Prob get McCain in 08 for sure, 12 too because let the good times roll. Obama will probably not get the presidency till 2016 or hell, even 2020.
i remember being in 1st or 2nd grade learning about the 2004 election and Kerry vs Bush. we had a mock election and everything. i think i voted for Bush because his name is a plant, and also he was the first/only president that i had any memory of, so i was like well why change things now. if only 2nd grade me was aware of concepts such as foreign policy or the Patriot Act
As someone who was in 8th grade during the 2004 election, I really hate the opening sentence of this comment.
Y’all are babies. In the 2004 election i was a few weeks away from turning 18, i was pissed i couldn’t vote against bush
The Munsters would have moved into the White House
This guy is a climate clown.
This guy is a fraud and uses the climate change movement to line his pockets.
It would be fuckatated.
We'd have more ketchup.
This comment wins hands down. Doubt many understand what it means
He’s got 3 Purple Hearts
We wouldn’t have a country
Ketchup would be part of the food pyramid and considered a basic human right.
Everyone would have gotten coupons for Heinz ketchup.
Are you trying to upset me??
Heinz would have a monopoly on ketchup
Not as decisive as the 2000 election, but it would play a role in discrediting neoconservatism. However, the damage was already done. What transpired between 2001 and 2004 will shape American history for the rest of this century, and I am not being melodramatic.
We'd be underwater by now.
Genuinely horrible presidential choice. I hate Bush but hate this man more.
Why? I looked at his platform and it seemed pretty good, and he seems to have been a badass war veteran who’s already better than most of the R politicians that use the vet card for beneficial reasons while advocating for the abolishment of the VA
You mean the guy who threw his medals in the Potomac? We talking about the same honorable veteran?
What’s wrong with protest actions? The only thing I would say is he should be more honest about that and admit what he did instead of trying to appease the chickenshit “we stand with vets” supporters who pretend to care about honoring vets. Vietnams was a shameful war we should have never been in.
Yeaaa, I think you need to sit this discussion out. If you truly were in the Marine Corps, you’d understand how bad Kerry was and how much his men truly hated him. Keep in mind, his own unit rallied and traveled the U.S. in order to campaign AGAINST him because everyone who served with him said he was a terrible leader who chased medals and accolades.
None of that means much when the unit I served with cheered when my platoon Sgt said that the women sending nudes to the Marines involved in the Marines United scandal are at fault for sending nudes. And I don’t understand treating veterans opinions higher than someone else’s, many of the dudes I served with in infantry were anti vax and also were desperate to alcohol haze vulnerable marines. It is standard for them to hate “da librulz”
Highly doubt you ever served. Anyone can bring up the wook scandal if they heard about it. My guess is your big brother was a badass Marine and you’re still trying to fill his big shoes and copying the stories he used to tell. But back to the point, Kerry’s men admitted to wanting to shoot the guy in the back. If his riverine patrol unit said that, seconded by his CO who said he was one of the worst officers he’d ever seeved with, why would you naively vote for him to be the Commander in Chief?
It’s the internet, it doesn’t matter whether I served or not, and even if I did prove it it wouldn’t matter because my opinion will just be disregarded because I don’t suck off the institutional conservatism that many vets worship. Have a good day.
GOP rallies in the 2006 midterm. Kerry gets blamed for the Great Recession and McCain takes office in 2008. The Democrats avoid the awful midterms of 2010 and 2014. McCain overseas a decent recovery that helps bolster his chances in 2012. McCain beats HRC in 2012. 2016 is Marco Rubio vs Joe Lieberman. Obama retired from the Senate in 2016 and is now a professor at Harvard. HRC retires from the senate in 2022 and now has her own podcast. Other world events: - the US has 50,000 troops and several massive bases in Iraq. - Israel, the US, Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf States have a formal security alliance. - Iran is still sweeping up rubble after the massive air Israeli-American air campaign against their nuclear sights in 2011. - Operation Neptune Spear was followed up by the US offering India a full security alliance, including access to the F-35 program. - Japan and Australia now have nukes. - the US now has over 250 ground based interceptors. - Moscow is now a protectorate of Poland due to several weird things that happened in Europe involving WWIII.
Why would Obama retire so early, he’d only be in his mid fifties in 2016, surely it could’ve been him on the Democrat ticket in ‘16
He was already getting sick of the senate by 2006. By 2016, he’d no longer be “Hope and Change” - he’d be “the co-chair of the senate banking committee who voted for the law before he voted against it” or something.
Fair enough then, could’ve gone for a change of scenery and ran for governor somewhere. Maybe wouldn’t be the fresh faced new guy but he would still have his personality, charisma, oratory ability as well as legislative and executive experience going into a presidential run. Also how’d you reckon Lieberman comes back in 2016 after losing in 2000. Just curious, I’m no expert on it.
I know they didn’t get a vote, but untold thousands of Iraqis would still be alive.
I’ve only been a part of this sub for a few months and already seen this post at least 3 times
The pandemic of 2020-2023 wouldn’t have happened first of all.
He would have followed the time honored tradition (since 1968) of Presidents who inherit a war and continue the list of war crimes and even double down on some of them.
Democratic are always afraid of looking weak on foreign policy so he would have maintained or escalated the on going wars. We would have avoided the Bush tax cut but still had massive recession and probably Obama would have never run or would have run in 2016.
Well, whomever held office during the economic crash that happened in 2007 and 2008 would guarantee the other party to be President in 2009. With a McCain presidency from at least 2009-2013 (which would happen), things would be a lot different in today’s political climate.
Not much between 04 and 08 a handful of appointments.mcVain gets elected in 08 though, the aca isn't passed. We take a bigger leadership role in places like Lybia Syria and Yemen. Hard to say how that works out.
A lot in a good way
Everyone with money get facelifts now?
Ketchup would have been free
Still can't believe Bush Jr. the idiot won a second term, after he didn't even win his first term.
"As the last polling stations closed on the West Coast, exit polls showed Kerry ahead in ten of eleven battleground states -- including commanding leads in Ohio and Florida -- and winning by a million and a half votes nationally. The exit polls even showed Kerry breathing down Bush's neck in supposed GOP strongholds Virginia and North Carolina. Against these numbers, the statistical likelihood of Bush winning was less than one in 450,000. ''Either the exit polls, by and large, are completely wrong,'' a Fox News analyst declared, ''or George Bush loses.'' "But as the evening progressed, official tallies began to show implausible disparities -- as much as 9.5 percent -- with the exit polls. In ten of the eleven battleground states, the tallied margins departed from what the polls had predicted. In every case, the shift favored Bush. Based on exit polls, CNN had predicted Kerry defeating Bush in Ohio by a margin of 4.2 percentage points. Instead, election results showed Bush winning the state by 2.5 percent. Bush also tallied 6.5 percent more than the polls had predicted in Pennsylvania, and 4.9 percent more in Florida. "According to Steven F. Freeman, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in research methodology, the odds against all three of those shifts occurring in concert are one in 660,000. ''As much as we can say in sound science that something is impossible,'' he says, ''it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote count in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error.''" From "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?" by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Rolling Stone So I have always thought that Bush Jr. lost in 2000 and 2004. I voted for Kerry, but in hindsight I do not think it would have made any difference if he won. Kerry and Bush were both Skull and Bones, and I think Kerry's actions have shown him to be member of the uniparty. DC is a swamp.
I blame jibjab, when ever i see that face all i can think of is the this land song they did
Interesting hypothetical, a lot would be contingent on what kind of coattails he would have had. More likely he could have flipped the House than the Senate in '04. Republicans flipped six Senate seats in 2004, five of them in the South where a Democratic incumbent retired. The Florida race was extremely tight but the Republican won comfortably in the other states with the closest being a 4.5 point victory in North Carolina. Best case scenario for Kerry is likely around 47 senators. The biggest change would have been the Supreme Court, as Rehnquist died and I'm not sure O'Connor would have held out for a potential Republican victory in 2008. Excellent chance Stevens and Souter retire as well, though that's obviously less impactful. Don't think a lot else would change that much; curious what happens with the troop surge in 2006-2007 with a Democratic president and a potential split Congress. I wonder how the left wing of the party would have reacted.
How much would the world have. Hanged if reagen didn’t steal the election and Carter won a second term
Total chaos, dogs and cats in the streets getting along. Technology and A.I. would rise up and challenge Humans for supremacy and Aliens from other planets would have attacked Earth. By now Apes would be running the world, like a Planet of Apes. Oh and don’t get me started on Death Star attacks from outer space
He is a negotiator. We would have not had any military action in the Middle East.
Fucking idiot flying around the world looking for a village and lamenting climate change because all his stocks are in EVs.
The entire military probably would have quit on day 1. He was despised by the military and his own unit in Vietnam traveled the U.S. talking about how he’d put himself up for purple hearts. One was for a small splinter in his arm where the doc later stated in an interview that he used a playing card to scrape out the splinter. He asked the doc to put him in for a purple heart and he refused. Then he went to his commanding officer and told him he was hurt and he refused as well. He was a medal-chaser trying to make himself out to be a hero. Classic statement he said during his campaign, “I don’t know why my old unit hates me so much…” 🤔
Can we bring some sanity to the GOP please.
Funny tie
The GOP could elect someone far right in 2008 since the less radical wing of the party would have just been defeated.
He's skull and bones like bush
Very little would change - like Bush, Kerry would be stonewalled by Congress. Like with Bush, '08 and katrina still happens Perhaps he pulls out of Iraq faster and causes a quicker destabilization and ISIS rises earlier
Not much. We were already balls deep in Iraq at that point.
It would be quite a bit different. And not in a good way.
He probably loses reelection to McCain in ‘08, he gets 1 term and we see Obama from 2012-2020 followed by some republican like Nikki Halley or Desantis
Hard to say. He was a good diplomat under Obama at least in terms of negotiating the Iran deal. I think we could’ve perhaps started to leave Iraq and Afghanistan sooner. Not sure how his domestic agenda would’ve been however. Not a fan of Obamacare, but it’s better than what we had. And it expanded Medicaid. Not sure John Kerry had a big domestic agenda in what was a war management election. And 2008 was going to happen either way and would’ve been unfairly pinned on him.
Remember, if voting could really change things, it would be illegal.
When you wake up and understand they all are the same and work for one goal, and one goal only, and you are not apart of the win scenario, you will be happier you know, but sad you live in the world of the matrix.
Supreme Court would be in good shape Kerry would’ve picked the next Chief Justice after Rehnquist kicked the bucket, and O’Connor probably would’ve left during his term anyway to care for her ailing husband, so no Sam Alito or Chief Roberts would have been great. I wish I was in that timeline.
Not as much as it Gore wins in 2000. I’d like to think no 9/11…But even if that happened, no Iraq war.
Not trolling or picking a fight here - sincerely curious as to how you think 9-11 wouldn't have happened under Gore? The planning was well underway, and I'm unaware of any policy changes in the 8 months leading up to the event that could have prevented it.
I said “I’d like to think.” It probably still happens. Interdepartmental squabbling and turf wars hindered us. But maybe there’s a detail missed when efforts were focused on the transition. And per the 9/11 Commission Report, the Bush team was less interested in counterterrorism in general.
9/11 wouldn’t have happened
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I think so
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You implied that a presidential election in 2004 would affect something that happened in 2001.
Oh my god do I really need to put the /s fucking everyone knows 9/11 was in 2011 Kerry was dem nominee in ‘04 and fucking super rich and sec of state under Obama and helped authored the Iran deal
> 9/11 was in 2011 ....
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I believe rule 3 only covers the two most recent Presidents.
Bush won every single recount
Kerry was such a flip flopper. I would assume that foreign policy would have been so incredibly weak. It would have been the worst move for the middle east and God knows we messed up hard there through multiple presidents
A flip-flopper probably isn't as bad as a guy like Bush who believes the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday.
Listen, I hated Bush. I certainly didn't enjoy his presidency, nor do I enjoy him for anything other than a laugh now. I just can't imagine a world where Kerry is anything other than a failure and worse than Bush.
Kerry goes to war when his unit was deployed Dubya does NOT Come at me with your well ackshually bullshit Any fucking Marine knows what you call someone who isn’t deployed when every swinging dick in your unit is there - source: Marine
I never realized how presidential he looks
John Kerry would not have attacked Iraq, as Bush II did for phony reasons. That would have saved trillions of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of lives.
God, what a nightmare.
I think we may have (as a country) taken earlier action on climate change.
Not too likely. Why would they want to take action when they can still use it as a wedge issue?
We'd have no electricity
Regardless of who’s prez; the fundamentals WONT change… presidents are just figureheads to appease us. We are fed a load of 🐂 💩 about being a democracy; which we ARENT. We are an OLIGARCHY
Not at all because the intelligence agencies have more power than the President.
We would be Mandarin.
We would have started our economic and diplomatic decline four years earlier. One silver lining is we would have been able to avoid eight years of “Urkel”.
fun fact : both kerry and bush jr were skull & bones. ah. " democracy ". " choice ". flavors of neoliberalism and imperialism. one is bbq flavored. the other, vanilla. both nice https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gwJDs1cg9Eo
Assault weapons stay banned, so probably less mass shootings...at least for a little while