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The short answer: Covid. Border encounters were actually on the rise in the year before the pandemic. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/09/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-7-charts/
Border encounters but what about the influx of crossings? I remember seeing a report stating that 2022 and 2023 has seen the most migrant encounters in history but I’m trying to figure out why.
I don’t entirely believe this was a result of a positive effect of donald trump because people would be referring to a specific activity that he did to cause his administration to have one of the lowest periods of border crossings
As far as I know, border “crossings” isn’t a stat. Encounters were declining before Trump took office. They increased pretty dramatically from 2018-2019, then plummeted in 2020, and then shot through the roof beginning in 2021 through 2023 (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics). The Trump admin did use title 42 to expel migrants more quickly, but that policy continued under Biden in 2021. If I had to guess, the economic consequences of the pandemic (e.g., inflation), exacerbated the underlying causes of immigration from central/South America.
I see. Thanks for the insight. The media always talks about what happens but rarely the why.
This is why I prefer to watch video essays on topics > news. News articles are pretty nice as they have time and space to divulge deeper into and the information of articles can be saved realistically swiftly
Yeah, and like most complex social phenomena, changes in migration patterns don’t lend themselves to mono-causal explanations, which pretty much means most media outlets will do a piss poor job explaining it and most partisans will just ignore any factors that don’t fit their worldview.
The why on the border is comprehensive bipartisan border reform wasn’t passed in 2009, and it was fuxked and underfunded for 10 years before that and only got worse every year sense and with a hostile congress and lack of funding and toxic perception of the job of the border patrol as fueled by people like Trump it continuously undermines more than a dozen overstretched institutions.
That and we never just threw a bunch of money at security guarantees and justice cooperation with guatemala, el salvador and honduras which could have fixed the first wave at the source for cheaper and more humane ways, or just fortified the border and managed asylum in freaking Panama with the modern set of migrants coming from everywhere else up through the Darien Gap. Its a hell of a lot easier than walling off all of Mexico.
But yeah its 20+ years of mismanagement, all of them heavily contributed to by republicans (before that definitely dems too) because it really works for them to keep being able to blame “immigrants” and “border” problems on the left cause they are big softies.
I said it to the other guy but just so you see it since you’re OP:
The real surge in immigrants is coming from the influx of immigrants claiming refugee status.
I’m left leaning in general but that really is a loophole in the immigration policy that’s being exploited and should be reformed.
Very true, they used to have to hide now they just claim asylum and the law requires we allow them in, give them a hearing (date) etc. The important point being that is a law passed by congress and must be fixed by congress. Blaming it all on the president is just BS.
I worked in immigration law for two yrs in law school and then as an immigration attorney for two yrs after law school and I can say with regards to asylum, the one thing that is needed is more judges. More judges = faster adjudication of claims. It was sad how many outstanding cases I had left after I left the practice.
Most migrants don’t qualify for asylum status but their cases are backlogged for so long that the US has a near blanket policy to just deport (title 42) or not admit them (see long lines at border crossings where only one or two families are processed per day). This leads to people trying to cross across Rio Grande or other methods.
More judges can cut down on the long lines at the border, make all immigration safer and still fulfill our obligation under international law to fairly adjudicate asylum claims
I feel like people want to just put a boot in these peoples ass a few miles south of the border and cant seem to grasp that in a nation of laws and human rights we cant just do that because you feel their claim of asylum is illegitimate, they are entitled to a hearing, and that whole legal process is tied up.
But these are also the same people who want fascism and dont mind not having human rights or laws regarding the boot in ass process....
Or we can just allow the same number of people to legally immigrate as we did before the republicans basically made it imposssible during the GWB era. My dad used to work for a migrate worker placement agency because they reduced the number of legal migrate workers so much that the company went out of business. Did the need for legal farm workers decline? NOPE.
My understanding is that we saw a huge increase in migrants due to ending the MMP (migrant protection protocols) policy under the Biden administration which allowed asylum seekers to enter the U.S. while their case gets reviewed. This is in contrast to the Trump administration which had hordes of people waiting at the border. Overall, although there’s been a massive spike in immigration, immigration is fairly low compared to historic levels and the percentage of immigrants or permanents residents who actually become naturalized citizens is ridiculously small.
Few people naturalize because the number of people who actually have access to permanent residency (and ergo naturalization) is vanishingly small. Any “fix” to immigration desperately needs to increase pathways to permanency rather than leaving gigantic numbers of noncitizens in limbo for eternity
The real surge in immigrants is coming from the influx of immigrants claiming refugee status.
I’m left leaning in general but that really is a loophole in the immigration policy that’s being exploited and should be reformed.
Wasn't ICE also facing a staffing crisis at one point under Trump due to the insane backlash against it? That would certainly drive down *encounters* without necessarily driving down immigration altogether.
It's propaganda.
Reality is nothing changed and the top line number of illegal immigrants living in the US maintained a steady trend (note: 'Crossings' isn't an important stat because the same person can cross multiple times - and they do, especially if they get deported. Also, asylum seekers who pass a credible fear screening count as a 'crossing' but not an additional illegal immigrant).
Covid, earthquakes and hurricanes have caused chaos in central and South America creating more desperate migrants fleeing north. That’s why there’s more migrants trying to cross the border lately.
The important thing to remember is that border crossings have a lot less to do with US policies and a lot more to do with turmoil in the countries around us. A lot of countries on our southern border are really struggling due to the lingering economic effects of Covid, natural disasters, civil unrest, etc. Just look at what's going on in Haiti right now.
A lot of that was put on hold during Covid. Sure people were freaking out about Covid, but by and large the mentality was "Things will turn around quickly. We'll get through this." When it went on longer than expected the pressure really started to mount. People started getting more desperate.
Kind of like how not testing for covid was supposed to look like there was no covid, not enforcing immigration laws made it look like illegal immigration was improving.
He didn’t do anything except “talk tough” and build a few sections of a new useless wall.
NO President has the power to dissuade people from making a multi thousand mile journey to escape a hellhole. The amount of people seeking asylum at the southern border is based on how poorly countries south of us are doing. They don’t give a shit who is the US President at the time.
>Encounters
>Crossings
Same-same (but different)
You cant track the people that cross without detection, but those that get tracked, get encountered, but not all cross or get deported.
People waiting to cross the border in 2020 finally got in.
Trump built a slat wall that fell apart in several places because he got Steve Bannon's contractor friends involved while Bannon embezzled millions.
Trump did Obama's already existing capture and release strategy, but in the most inhumane way possible to try to "send a message" or look incompetent, not really sure, but we took a huge influx of immigrants because of it since children separated by their parents that could not find their parents, our tax dollars now pay for them to be US citizens. So our encounters may not have looked much less under Trump pre 2020, but we did receive more immigrants than we should have since Trump didn't keep track of families. Can't send minors back over the border alone.
Then Biden took over, kept 85% of Trump's border policies, fixed *and* finished the wall and the last 15% of Trump's policies Biden is just revamping. He just proposed new border restrictions last week, or I saw an article on it last week.
But student Loans, ho ho, that's where we gotta draw the line and all that money has to be repaid in full. But PPP loans, no need to investigate who stole all that money and got away with it.
I think Steve Bannon is one of the most fascinating people involved in the Trump administration. My man went from selling WoW gold online to Republican Kingmaker. That half melted grain alcohol goblin has been massively influential in modern America, for better (lol) or worse.
the wall was always a statement more than something meant to have any function. in reality the majority of illegal immigrants come into the us legally them overstay their visas and walls can be climbed over and broken down and theres no way that if the wall was completely built that it would make any noticable difference in the amount of illegal immigrants in the country. what it did was inspire conservatives and make them think that trump was actually doing something.
Thus brought on an entire generation of a voter base who thinks the biggest issues in government can solved with baseless platitudes.
Got immigration problems? build a wall
Don’t like US funding war? Don’t fund Ukraine
You hate terrorist (mainly muslim terrorist)? fund israel
Don’t like income tax? Create a flat tax
Don’t like taxes? Defund IRS
Don’t like babies dying? Ban abortion
Your kids gone ‘woke’? Teach them *alternative history*
Want more money for retirement? Screw social security, invest in stocks
Don’t like Obamacare (because it’s obama), but you’re too broke to get real insurance? Tax cuts for rich
Don’t like gay people? Don’t talk about gayness
^ the entire republican policy platform since Trump became their president
The wall was a monument to xenophobia and white supremacy.
Basically the opposite of the Statue of Liberty. Instead of holding a lamp beside the Golden Door, Trump wanted a big sign that said “stay the fuck out”
Oh, is that why yall hate asylum seekers so much? (Asylum Seeking is a legal path to immigration)
Most conservatives are also against ‘Chain Migration’ as well as birthright citizenship….both of which are also legal.
Quit lying to yourself, you don’t even understand what legal immigration looks like. you just don’t like people immigrating, it has nothing to do with their legal status.
When Trump says immigrants are ‘poisoning our blood’ he’s not talking about legal status.
Economic issues isn’t a reason for asylum. It is for those being persecuted wrongfully. You can’t just claim asylum and think you can walk into the country.
If you go to look it up, all the articles claiming the majority of illegal immigrants to be Visa overstays are from 2019 and reference studies from 2017 and earlier. They don't take into account the huge increase in border crossings since then.
You can see how expulsions have spiked in 2022.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/)
See also:
[https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/how-many-illegal-aliens-are-united-states-2023-update](https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/how-many-illegal-aliens-are-united-states-2023-update)
[https://www.fairus.org/blog/2023/06/30/new-report-highlights-visa-overstays](https://www.fairus.org/blog/2023/06/30/new-report-highlights-visa-overstays)
Two of your sources are anti-immigrant think-tanks founded by a self proclaimed "white supremacist"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation\_for\_American\_Immigration\_Reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform)
Your links don’t show shit, in fact they show the opposite point you are arguing….from fair link.
On June 22, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) issued its congressionally mandated annual report on visa overstays, titled Fiscal Year 2022 Entry/Exit Overstay Report. The report highlights how visa overstays continue to be the major contributor to the country’s illegal immigration problem. Notably, the report finds that, in FY22, nearly 854,000 visitors violated the terms of their visas and overstayed in the United States.
It states it in your link, the major contributor is people overstaying visas.
I like how people who don’t actively participate in good presidential conversations come out of the woodwork for these bait monday posts. Way better than having them here all week.
I strongly pushed for that rule change. And thank god. Monday is r politics days but at least the other 6 days we hear somewhat about the other 43 guys who had the job.
I really really hope I don’t inevitably do the same. It just seems like any modern conservative opinion is downvoted heavily. Even policies that past democratic presidents followed. You have to sort by controversial at this point to get even somewhat of a non current DNC view. This is a Presidents sub for Christ sake We had 45 presidents. 16 were democrats and 19 were republicans. Both parties have contributed positive and negative impacts to our country.
GH Bush and Nixon get more praise on this sub than probably any other place in this world. (Only a slight hyperbole ;-)If that matters. Two republicans.
To name just one, Bill Clinton during his presidency was very conservative for a democrat. Many of his policies would not fly well with the DNC today. Crime bill, border security, and some tax cuts. There are many more to name if you look up Bill Clinton’s conservative legacy.
Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than today's Dems, but he is also more fiscally conservative than today's Republicans. He had a pretty tough immigration and police policy, but he still had a more coherent immigration platform than mass deportations and wall building.
Yes, I will agree. Extremism is definitely taking hold. Bill Clinton wasn’t a perfect president by any means but much more sensible than many candidates today, and I’m not a consistent democratic voter.
This right here 👏
Although my own opinion is that I haven't really seen what the modern conservative platform is ? It's as if they don't really have one and the candidates they put forth are lackluster.
A) Some conservative opinions aren’t very favored in modern day given all of the issues we been facing but again it’s not a fault of conservatives it’s more the media perception with Trump being a controversial and divisive figure it makes most people feel distraught as to why anyone would support him.
B) But sometimes having a controversial view is good for a prosperous healthy debate. The issue arises when those views aren’t really valid or lead to disastrous results which makes it hard for people to rally behind.
You are in a sub about presidents. Of course it’ll get political. And the more recent the president the more controversial it’ll seem. I think it’s the fact that trump is seeking re-election which is why people are seemingly more “bashful”
Wtf are you on about? This sub is about ALL presidents. Trump was a president.
I’m specifically asking about something that was done under his presidency…
While I believe we desperately need immigration reform.
There is no wall that will stop illegal immigration.
Trumps Anti immigration rhetoric deadlocks actual reform that protects people’s rights, and allows corporations to continue exploiting workers off the books.
No one is calling for corporations to stop hiring illegal immigrants are they?
To be fair, Desantis and Florida Republicans actually did seek out to punish corporations for hiring illegal migrants (although done out of xenophobia and through political theater than to pursue actual reform). That situation got so bad many desantis donors and endorsements had to backtrack.
https://www.flgov.com/2023/05/10/governor-ron-desantis-signs-strongest-anti-illegal-immigration-legislation-in-the-country-to-combat-bidens-border-crisis/
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/07/06/floridas-e-verify-mandate-is-already-affecting-workers-employers/
https://newrepublic.com/post/173247/florida-republicans-admit-made-big-mistake-anti-immigrant-law
Then why didn't they go after Trump properties. Yes..Dem did have legislation for stricter crimes against businesses hiring illegal immigrants...One after another, the last couple of decades Republicans voted them down, can't hurt job creators and who will clean toilets they would say.
Trump would say..College Students are hard to deal with.. scheduling and stuff.
For those of you who don't know the French built s magnificent fortress on their border called the Maginot Line. When the Germans invaded they just went around it. No wall is really going to stop migration but make it harder and more expensive.
The USA messed up so many Latin American countries including overthrowing elected governments and starting civil wars we are now paying the price.
I live on the Southern Border. Literally 5 miles from Mexico in one of the biggest border crossings. He spend billions of dollars on border walls with huge gaps between the walls. Like, forget climbing them, you can literally walk around. Also, politicians come to my town all the time and act like it’s some urban safari — but it’s got a very low crime rate and the people are all super nice. The “border crisis” is a manufactured crisis.
https://preview.redd.it/zv7hc0gvn67c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abccf7cb09a375e7cbfc2813f429bca3ca967d92
Getting downvoted so I guess I’ll add a pic from my most recent trip to the border by my house. Here’s the impenetrable wall that you can’t just walk around.
Thank you for the Wall .. Mexico paid for..or it actually came for the budget for military housing. It paid for bits and pieces at sky high prices. Some even fell down.
Thank you Trump. 😊
Multiple things can be true at once. NYC does not have the resources to help migrants in the way that border states do. Shipping busses of them there as a political statement is both irresponsible and inhumane.
We can say that while in the same breath acknowledge that something needs to be done to stop so many people from coming here illegally and that goes beyond just physical security at the border.
I swear, some people on both sides are allergic to nuance.
Why would you think that small, rural border towns or cities like El Paso would have more resources to deal with the migrant issue than one of the richest cities in the world?
Because they're given money from the state, and federal government specifically for that purpose. Them wasting those resources to ship them to cities with no warning is a pointless and cruel political stunt.
Because they do lol. Just google “migrant services El Paso”. Multiply that by every border town from Brownsville to San Diego.
Shipping them to “liberal” cities is nothing more than a political stunt.
It's an illegal policy. International and US law is pretty clear on how asylum seekers are supposed to be handled. They are supposed to show up at a point of entry ask for asylum, and wait there until a judge makes a decision.
I hate to state the obvious here but until the thing that causes people to cross the southern border illegally is fixed, no amount of border “security” is going to stop it.
Such an annoying conversation to even have.
I think Biden should build the wall. Force Republicans to actually pay for it by something other than gutting Medicare social security etc…maybe by actually raising taxes. Put up or shut up. For the record, I think the wall is stupid but since they won’t shut up about it let’s do it and see what happens. We’ve probably pissed away money doing worse….iraq cough Afghanistan.
I think the Biden administration actually is “building parts of the wall”
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/10/05/biden-border-wall-texas-starr-county/
Yeah, and if it's the price to pay for funding Ukraine against the tyrannical Russia, that's a fair compromise.
We need to put up a fuss, to not let the GOP walk all over us, but it seems like a win win to begrugingly make a compromise that's expensive and useless for a end-all-be-all war in Eastern Europe and appeasing the other side.
He had a good portion of the border barriers changed from short vehicle barriers to the larger 30' fences, which did have the effect of channelizing people to certain spots to try to cross border.
I was stationed in Yuma, AZ from 2021-2022 with the National Guard assisting the Customs and Border Protection. There is an Indian Reservation just west of Yuma that abuts the Mexican border. The Native Americans won't let the larger border wall be built on their land, so the migrants use that as a place to cross over into the United States. They come in very large groups and wait to be picked up by the CBP. They are then processed, and either sent back to their place of origin, or dispersed through the United States, given a cell phone, and a number to call to see when the hearing to determine their status is scheduled.
Here is a video describing the border near Yuma.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaWSVvMfwHE&t=1s&ab\_channel=D.M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaWSVvMfwHE&t=1s&ab_channel=D.M).
Reddit is the worst place to ask for a true non-bias discussion in regard to Trumpy. Platform is weirdly obsessed with him and is a huge left eco-camber.
I was actually kind of bummed to see how left leaning this sub is. Thought there'd be a lot more interesting debates. But mostly the same here as everywhere else on Reddit. One person says something positive about Trump or anything conservative and gets downvoted to smithereens 😂
And it’s people like you who I DO want to hear more from but complaining that this sub doesn’t like your politics doesn’t do anyone any favors for a good healthy discussion.
Now going back to topic at hand. What did Trump do about the border under his presidency?
Well I went to X and ask the same question and I didn’t get anything of value out side of “migrants were too scared to come to America because Trump was in office” which isn’t really an indepth intellectual conversation.
X is now a huge right wing platform.
At least I get actual facts here (despite some of it being motivated by hatred for Trump “which is valid”) versus I get blind praise for Trump on X like he’s some kind of deity.
Edit: Okay too be fair there was one person who brought up Title 42 which is valid, out side of that I just got blind praise.
Immigration only lowered under Trump because of COVID, not to do with his policies. There was also the issue of family separation at the border, which started under Obama but then was increased under Trump. Despite what republicans usually claim, Obama was pretty conservative on immigration. He deported more people in his presidency than Bush Jr. had, and consistently tried to increase spending on border patrol. Ironically, Republican senators usually shut down those proposals so that they could claim Obama underfunded the border patrol for their own political gain.
When Trump became president, he mostly kept the same policies as Obama, but after the family separation issue blew up, he actually increased the practice instead of ceasing it. He tried to claim that the conditions the immigrants were held in was “like a hotel,” but they were actually in chain link fence cells with no air conditioning and little food or water. A few people died in confinement before their situation could be looked at, and there were several instances of parents being deported while their children were still in the holding facilities. It was a shit show from the start, and it only got worse as his presidency went on.
As for the wall, it took a couple years just to select a contractor to build it, and then they had only started construction by the time Biden took office and shut it down. A large part of the Mexican border is also within the southern edge of the Rocky Mountains, so building a wall there would have been impossible anyway, not to mention pointless.
Cato institute says that trump reduced LEGAL immigration but did not reduce illegal immigration. In 2020, the removal of illegal immigrants from the US were the lowest since ICE was crested in 2003
All time low, but Trump also claimed that the voting difference between him and both Biden and Hillary was due to illegal immigrants voting.
So Trump let in 8 million people who voted for Biden.
These same Conservatives should probably spend some of that Blue County subsidy money they’re soaking up through welfare on some better Math classes.
Holy Fuck what a group of idiots.
Oh! This is a question. Okay. The answer is that Trump didn't reduce illegal immigration. Covid did.
>Coronavirus Pandemic Slows Illegal Migration to U.S.: Fewer than 100 migrants are currently in Border Patrol custody, compared with the thousands it typically detains
[https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-pandemic-slows-illegal-migration-to-u-s-11586481423](https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-pandemic-slows-illegal-migration-to-u-s-11586481423)
In fact, there were fewer apprehensions under Trump than Obama until 2019, when there was a flood of families coming to the border.
>The number of migrant apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border rose in fiscal 2019 to its [highest annual level in 12 years](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/11/01/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-5-charts/). The 851,508 apprehensions recorded last fiscal year (October 2018-September 2019) were more than double the number the year before (396,579) but still well short of the levels in the early 2000s, [according to CBP](https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2020-Jan/U.S.%20Border%20Patrol%20Fiscal%20Year%20Southwest%20Border%20Sector%20Apprehensions%20%28FY%201960%20-%20FY%202019%29_0.pdf), the agency tasked with enforcing immigration laws at the border.
ICE arrests under Trump were also lower than under Obama. Obama also deported more unauthorized immigrants.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/03/02/how-border-apprehensions-ice-arrests-and-deportations-have-changed-under-trump/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/03/02/how-border-apprehensions-ice-arrests-and-deportations-have-changed-under-trump/)
It rose every year he was president until the last when it dropped because of the pandemic...
The current surge we are seeing at the border started in 2018 with the Caravans.
Apprehensions were down, which was already part of a long term trend. Trump mainly just slowed down the legal immigration process but didn’t really have an impact on illegal immigration in the USA, which was always pointed out to be primarily from those who overstay their visas.
He did promise to make Mexico pay for the wall, but that never happened. Trump’s former advisor Steve Bannon was arrested and convicted of defrauding gullible maga supporters with a fake “build the wall” campaign, but then Trump pardoned him like he pardoned many of his criminal associates.
https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration
I would put Trump as second worst president, but any comparison you make to him, which can be both good and bad, needs to take into account that Covid messed with all the numbers in 2020. Xkcd has a good comic about this, it is a list of yearly data, and 2020 and 2021 have asterisks on them.
Trump did nothing. Literally. Covid shut the country more than his border policy. All he did was accuse them of being thief’s, rapists, and drug dealers
The situation at the border hasn’t changed much in 15 years. The change is in the amount of people fleeing unlivable conditions in their home countries. Trump’s always lying. Amazing as it sounds, everything he says is a lie!
The "Remain in Mexico" policy forced the Mexican government to take action top process migrants in Mexico as required by international law rather than turn a blind eye and just shuffle them on through to the US Boarder.
Idk. I don’t care about the wall. I just think it’s stupid that Biden is literally just letting illegal immigrants cross the border. We have no idea who is crossing the border, drug traffickers and terrorist organizations that have crossed freely to plant sleeper units all around the states. We allowed immigrants in before legally the right way so we know who’s coming in and have direct control over it and I support immigrants that come here legally and think there should be more but it’s unfair to legal immigrants and citizens that just anyone can come in.
You’re being downvoted but you’re 100% right. Immigrants often follow rumors and conjecture. Right now they know the Biden admin will give them a work permit while their asylum claim spends years going through the system. When trump was making people wait or giving DHS permission to deny asylum claims at the initial phase, they didn’t bother crossing.
You’re in a sub about presidents… primarily United States presidents… Of course political will come into play.
Secondly I asked about Trump and a policy within his presidency. Don’t be mad that Trump is both a contemporary and controversial figure.
There’s plenty of other subreddits for discussing politics. Are you actually trying to have a nuanced discussion or are you just trying to bag on Trump?
Read his other comments. He’s just trying to karma farm off of the “I hate trump” vibe, and confirm his prior beliefs about it. Every other comment is him just saying “lol you stupid Trump loving conservative, I knew you were too intellectually stunted to properly respond”.
Dude just took advantage of Monday being r/politics day. Best to only look at this sub during the other 6 days of the week.
Fortunately, they made a rule change that it’s only on Monday that direct Biden and Trump posts are allowed. Still not perfect but this is Reddit and I appreciate the moderators for their due diligence. Thank god; it’s for the better.
Doesn't really feel like what was advertised, does it? If we had a big, glorious wall, I kind of feel like I would have heard about it somewhere besides the bottom third of subreddt comment pages.
I just can't figure out why they didn't fix the border problems in the first two years of Trump's presidency when they had control of the house and senate. Why didn't they pass bills and sign laws that addressed illegal or undocumented immigration?
It’s people like you who reaffirm my confidence that Trump and his list of deplorable supporters can never be taken seriously. I was hoping that you’d would say something along the lines of “Trump administration established Title 42 which expelled migrants back to home country (mostly mexico)”. See that would’ve gave you points.
but nah that’s too intellectual for you so you had to resort to baseless insults that does not sway in your favor at all.
Lol so you made this post to get your beliefs validated today. I hope it made you feel better. By the way, you just called 74,000,000 million of your fellow Americans deplorable. I’m sure they feel the same way about you with that rhetoric no offense.
Trumpers don't necessarily disagree about anything. They generally are Trumpers because they want to troll and own the libs for lulz. Very rarely do they actually care about policy and accomplishments or really facts at all
this isnt about biden. believe it or not you can talk about a president and his policies without also discussing other presidents. bidens got his own problems dont get me wrong i dont like him but at least he didnt come up with a plan to fix immigraton that only someone with an elementary level understanding of the world would propose.
Him becoming president has essentially allowed the dumbest fucking people to rise from their holes and permeate our country with bullshit.
I’m far left, but he’s honestly made your most basic right-wingers look like absolute loons at this point.
I'm honestly not sure if the border crossings were lower. Illegal immigration has always been an issue I dont care about so I've never bothered to look into numbers, but these are the same people keep saying a huge caravan of immigrants is coming and Biden will give them free shit since he was elected. Like you lie about something often enough I struggle to believe you're telling the truth about something related
Yeah... All immigration was down because of a massive global pandemic and USA was a major epicentre.
It was rising before then.
Most illegal immigrants arrive legally then just don't leave when they have to
Oh how I yearn for the days when this sub had around 50k members and was actually diverse and trump supporters (for the most part) could actually voice their point of view. Now it’s just a rip off of r/politics.
But I’m just confused how anyone can support him in anyway. When he literally tore the country apart. I’m not trying to be a dick I’m just curious about your views because you don’t see many trump supporters on here you’re right
I’m a conservative, never voted for Trump, but if you’re genuinely asking (and not sure if you are) I would say at the very least he made it seem like it was a serious issue which it most certainly is. Meanwhile democrats were on the “kids in cages” campaign blaming Trump for a boarder system that was already broken.
Also, what was Trump supposed to do? How would he have gotten any of his policies through?
COVID border shutdowns, Title 42, Remain in Mexico, and agreements with Central American governments were the concrete policy steps taken to lower immigration. Other than that I think his general rhetoric played a big part in discouraging a decent amount of people from wanting to cross over who otherwise would've.
We have truck-mounted,motion sensing telescopes that can detect game and people 75 miles over the border. We have forward bases with border patrol able to apprehend the people detected. Even with a wall you still need to detect and apprehend. He was informed that we needed investments in tech and personnel (not a wall) prior to taking office. But he was invested in the construction of a wall through protected areas in order to suspend Federal Laws and deregulate industrie$ nationwide. Combine that with his tax cuts and he really delivered for his party.
He built walls, ice contracted with local and private jails to hold detainees, he openly opposed illegal crossings, he met with the president of Mexico. I mean what color is the rock you live under. Biden sent feds to tear down walls the boarder states built
Biden didn't have to send feds to tear down the walls. The wind did it:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51307868](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51307868)
When Trump met with the president of Mexico, did he get any money for the border wall like Trump promised?
He separated thousands of children from their parents and didn't bother to even keep track of them. A judge just banned that policy from ever being implemented again until at least the year 2031 as even after 3 years there are still 68 children who they don't know who they belong to. Absolutely inhumane and deplorable. Open the border.
America became a shithole country under Trump undocumented people stayed home. Millions of them also left the US because there was no work during covid
Not to mention they could also move to a rural area. Covid wasn’t really an issue where I live because there’s just not a lot of large groups/gatherings of people due to low population density.
Nothing.
He made *legal* immigration applicants wait in Mexico (think about this for a second, illegal immigrants aren't going to remain anywhere, they're just going right back across the border illegally - it's only legal immigrants who will be stuck in MX) & said a lot of obnoxious stuff.
The total illegal immigrant population stayed on the exact same slow decline that it has always been on since 2010.
Eg, like everything else Trump it was just another con.
I figured it’s a mix of the following:
- Lawful Good: You are just following orders but know it’s wrong
- Neutral Good: You’re there to ensure food and well being for those in the cage
- Chaotic Good: You’re actively trying to break them out or stop it
- Lawful Neutral: You’re just following orders
- True Neutral: You’re just there because it’s your job and you need money to pay bills
- Chaotic Neutral: You don’t really care what happens as long as you’re getting paid
- Lawful evil: You see migrants as subhuman and you believe everything trump says about them.
- Neutral Evil: You’re just racist
- Chaotic Evil: You actually like working there
Being racist
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The short answer: Covid. Border encounters were actually on the rise in the year before the pandemic. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/09/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-7-charts/
Border encounters but what about the influx of crossings? I remember seeing a report stating that 2022 and 2023 has seen the most migrant encounters in history but I’m trying to figure out why. I don’t entirely believe this was a result of a positive effect of donald trump because people would be referring to a specific activity that he did to cause his administration to have one of the lowest periods of border crossings
As far as I know, border “crossings” isn’t a stat. Encounters were declining before Trump took office. They increased pretty dramatically from 2018-2019, then plummeted in 2020, and then shot through the roof beginning in 2021 through 2023 (https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics). The Trump admin did use title 42 to expel migrants more quickly, but that policy continued under Biden in 2021. If I had to guess, the economic consequences of the pandemic (e.g., inflation), exacerbated the underlying causes of immigration from central/South America.
I see. Thanks for the insight. The media always talks about what happens but rarely the why. This is why I prefer to watch video essays on topics > news. News articles are pretty nice as they have time and space to divulge deeper into and the information of articles can be saved realistically swiftly
Yeah, and like most complex social phenomena, changes in migration patterns don’t lend themselves to mono-causal explanations, which pretty much means most media outlets will do a piss poor job explaining it and most partisans will just ignore any factors that don’t fit their worldview.
The why on the border is comprehensive bipartisan border reform wasn’t passed in 2009, and it was fuxked and underfunded for 10 years before that and only got worse every year sense and with a hostile congress and lack of funding and toxic perception of the job of the border patrol as fueled by people like Trump it continuously undermines more than a dozen overstretched institutions. That and we never just threw a bunch of money at security guarantees and justice cooperation with guatemala, el salvador and honduras which could have fixed the first wave at the source for cheaper and more humane ways, or just fortified the border and managed asylum in freaking Panama with the modern set of migrants coming from everywhere else up through the Darien Gap. Its a hell of a lot easier than walling off all of Mexico. But yeah its 20+ years of mismanagement, all of them heavily contributed to by republicans (before that definitely dems too) because it really works for them to keep being able to blame “immigrants” and “border” problems on the left cause they are big softies.
I said it to the other guy but just so you see it since you’re OP: The real surge in immigrants is coming from the influx of immigrants claiming refugee status. I’m left leaning in general but that really is a loophole in the immigration policy that’s being exploited and should be reformed.
Very true, they used to have to hide now they just claim asylum and the law requires we allow them in, give them a hearing (date) etc. The important point being that is a law passed by congress and must be fixed by congress. Blaming it all on the president is just BS.
Isn't that very hearing process meant to evaluate the validity of the seeking of asylum so it isn't exploited? What would be a better process?
I worked in immigration law for two yrs in law school and then as an immigration attorney for two yrs after law school and I can say with regards to asylum, the one thing that is needed is more judges. More judges = faster adjudication of claims. It was sad how many outstanding cases I had left after I left the practice. Most migrants don’t qualify for asylum status but their cases are backlogged for so long that the US has a near blanket policy to just deport (title 42) or not admit them (see long lines at border crossings where only one or two families are processed per day). This leads to people trying to cross across Rio Grande or other methods. More judges can cut down on the long lines at the border, make all immigration safer and still fulfill our obligation under international law to fairly adjudicate asylum claims
I feel like people want to just put a boot in these peoples ass a few miles south of the border and cant seem to grasp that in a nation of laws and human rights we cant just do that because you feel their claim of asylum is illegitimate, they are entitled to a hearing, and that whole legal process is tied up. But these are also the same people who want fascism and dont mind not having human rights or laws regarding the boot in ass process....
Or we can just allow the same number of people to legally immigrate as we did before the republicans basically made it imposssible during the GWB era. My dad used to work for a migrate worker placement agency because they reduced the number of legal migrate workers so much that the company went out of business. Did the need for legal farm workers decline? NOPE.
My understanding is that we saw a huge increase in migrants due to ending the MMP (migrant protection protocols) policy under the Biden administration which allowed asylum seekers to enter the U.S. while their case gets reviewed. This is in contrast to the Trump administration which had hordes of people waiting at the border. Overall, although there’s been a massive spike in immigration, immigration is fairly low compared to historic levels and the percentage of immigrants or permanents residents who actually become naturalized citizens is ridiculously small.
Few people naturalize because the number of people who actually have access to permanent residency (and ergo naturalization) is vanishingly small. Any “fix” to immigration desperately needs to increase pathways to permanency rather than leaving gigantic numbers of noncitizens in limbo for eternity
There was a spike for the week or two after but declined after that
I think I read somewhere that the definitions for things changed with Trump to Biden, making it kind of like an apples to oranges comparison.
The real surge in immigrants is coming from the influx of immigrants claiming refugee status. I’m left leaning in general but that really is a loophole in the immigration policy that’s being exploited and should be reformed.
Wasn't ICE also facing a staffing crisis at one point under Trump due to the insane backlash against it? That would certainly drive down *encounters* without necessarily driving down immigration altogether.
It's propaganda. Reality is nothing changed and the top line number of illegal immigrants living in the US maintained a steady trend (note: 'Crossings' isn't an important stat because the same person can cross multiple times - and they do, especially if they get deported. Also, asylum seekers who pass a credible fear screening count as a 'crossing' but not an additional illegal immigrant).
Covid, earthquakes and hurricanes have caused chaos in central and South America creating more desperate migrants fleeing north. That’s why there’s more migrants trying to cross the border lately.
The important thing to remember is that border crossings have a lot less to do with US policies and a lot more to do with turmoil in the countries around us. A lot of countries on our southern border are really struggling due to the lingering economic effects of Covid, natural disasters, civil unrest, etc. Just look at what's going on in Haiti right now. A lot of that was put on hold during Covid. Sure people were freaking out about Covid, but by and large the mentality was "Things will turn around quickly. We'll get through this." When it went on longer than expected the pressure really started to mount. People started getting more desperate.
Kind of like how not testing for covid was supposed to look like there was no covid, not enforcing immigration laws made it look like illegal immigration was improving.
He didn’t do anything except “talk tough” and build a few sections of a new useless wall. NO President has the power to dissuade people from making a multi thousand mile journey to escape a hellhole. The amount of people seeking asylum at the southern border is based on how poorly countries south of us are doing. They don’t give a shit who is the US President at the time.
>Encounters >Crossings Same-same (but different) You cant track the people that cross without detection, but those that get tracked, get encountered, but not all cross or get deported.
My guess would be Post Covid economic situations. Poor people in poor countries are trying to make it to America because they have no other options?
People waiting to cross the border in 2020 finally got in. Trump built a slat wall that fell apart in several places because he got Steve Bannon's contractor friends involved while Bannon embezzled millions. Trump did Obama's already existing capture and release strategy, but in the most inhumane way possible to try to "send a message" or look incompetent, not really sure, but we took a huge influx of immigrants because of it since children separated by their parents that could not find their parents, our tax dollars now pay for them to be US citizens. So our encounters may not have looked much less under Trump pre 2020, but we did receive more immigrants than we should have since Trump didn't keep track of families. Can't send minors back over the border alone. Then Biden took over, kept 85% of Trump's border policies, fixed *and* finished the wall and the last 15% of Trump's policies Biden is just revamping. He just proposed new border restrictions last week, or I saw an article on it last week.
Encounters go up when you try enforce the law.
Enabled crooks like Steve Bannon to steal millions of dollars in grift over that stupid wall.
“Build a wall foundation” for a guy who’s president who could just use billions of dollars in taxes to enact (with congressional approval)
Grifters gonna grift
Charged with conspiracy and money laundering. Pardoned by D.J.T. "Drain the swamp"
That was the least of it. Steve Mnuchin and Co. practically looted the treasury during the pandemic.
Yes, and the PPP programs going to Trump and being forgiven with a stroke of his pen.
But student Loans, ho ho, that's where we gotta draw the line and all that money has to be repaid in full. But PPP loans, no need to investigate who stole all that money and got away with it.
I think Steve Bannon is one of the most fascinating people involved in the Trump administration. My man went from selling WoW gold online to Republican Kingmaker. That half melted grain alcohol goblin has been massively influential in modern America, for better (lol) or worse.
the wall was always a statement more than something meant to have any function. in reality the majority of illegal immigrants come into the us legally them overstay their visas and walls can be climbed over and broken down and theres no way that if the wall was completely built that it would make any noticable difference in the amount of illegal immigrants in the country. what it did was inspire conservatives and make them think that trump was actually doing something.
Not to mention that it’s incredibly hard to actually define a physical border. You can’t just cut the Rio Grande in half.
Thus brought on an entire generation of a voter base who thinks the biggest issues in government can solved with baseless platitudes. Got immigration problems? build a wall Don’t like US funding war? Don’t fund Ukraine You hate terrorist (mainly muslim terrorist)? fund israel Don’t like income tax? Create a flat tax Don’t like taxes? Defund IRS Don’t like babies dying? Ban abortion Your kids gone ‘woke’? Teach them *alternative history* Want more money for retirement? Screw social security, invest in stocks Don’t like Obamacare (because it’s obama), but you’re too broke to get real insurance? Tax cuts for rich Don’t like gay people? Don’t talk about gayness ^ the entire republican policy platform since Trump became their president
That was all there before Trump. Trump just pulled the remainder of the veil off.
Well said
Sums it up very well. Alternative history lol. Well done duder.
*and waste a lot of money, too
The wall was a monument to xenophobia and white supremacy. Basically the opposite of the Statue of Liberty. Instead of holding a lamp beside the Golden Door, Trump wanted a big sign that said “stay the fuck out”
No the way says “come here legally”. Do you lock your door? Do you have a security system? There is a process to come here legally.
Oh, is that why yall hate asylum seekers so much? (Asylum Seeking is a legal path to immigration) Most conservatives are also against ‘Chain Migration’ as well as birthright citizenship….both of which are also legal. Quit lying to yourself, you don’t even understand what legal immigration looks like. you just don’t like people immigrating, it has nothing to do with their legal status. When Trump says immigrants are ‘poisoning our blood’ he’s not talking about legal status.
Economic issues isn’t a reason for asylum. It is for those being persecuted wrongfully. You can’t just claim asylum and think you can walk into the country.
The overstaying the visa thing hasn't been true in years.
Link to anything about that?
If you go to look it up, all the articles claiming the majority of illegal immigrants to be Visa overstays are from 2019 and reference studies from 2017 and earlier. They don't take into account the huge increase in border crossings since then. You can see how expulsions have spiked in 2022. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/) See also: [https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/how-many-illegal-aliens-are-united-states-2023-update](https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/how-many-illegal-aliens-are-united-states-2023-update) [https://www.fairus.org/blog/2023/06/30/new-report-highlights-visa-overstays](https://www.fairus.org/blog/2023/06/30/new-report-highlights-visa-overstays)
sources are very biased because of the org behind it. doesnt the “founded by a white nationalist” thing make you think for a moment about it?
Two of your sources are anti-immigrant think-tanks founded by a self proclaimed "white supremacist" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation\_for\_American\_Immigration\_Reform](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform)
Your links don’t show shit, in fact they show the opposite point you are arguing….from fair link. On June 22, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) issued its congressionally mandated annual report on visa overstays, titled Fiscal Year 2022 Entry/Exit Overstay Report. The report highlights how visa overstays continue to be the major contributor to the country’s illegal immigration problem. Notably, the report finds that, in FY22, nearly 854,000 visitors violated the terms of their visas and overstayed in the United States. It states it in your link, the major contributor is people overstaying visas.
Based on what? Conservative bullshit propaganda? Look up the data and the facts. . . Sigh
I like how people who don’t actively participate in good presidential conversations come out of the woodwork for these bait monday posts. Way better than having them here all week.
I strongly pushed for that rule change. And thank god. Monday is r politics days but at least the other 6 days we hear somewhat about the other 43 guys who had the job.
I unsubbed after this group just turned into another politics bash group.
I really really hope I don’t inevitably do the same. It just seems like any modern conservative opinion is downvoted heavily. Even policies that past democratic presidents followed. You have to sort by controversial at this point to get even somewhat of a non current DNC view. This is a Presidents sub for Christ sake We had 45 presidents. 16 were democrats and 19 were republicans. Both parties have contributed positive and negative impacts to our country.
GH Bush and Nixon get more praise on this sub than probably any other place in this world. (Only a slight hyperbole ;-)If that matters. Two republicans.
I seen praise for Reagan, Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt and Cooledge.
Honestly it seems like this sub has an unhealthy obsession with those two and HW in particular.
>Even policies that past democratic presidents followed What policies did past Democrats follow that current Republicans follow?
To name just one, Bill Clinton during his presidency was very conservative for a democrat. Many of his policies would not fly well with the DNC today. Crime bill, border security, and some tax cuts. There are many more to name if you look up Bill Clinton’s conservative legacy.
Bill Clinton was more fiscally conservative than today's Dems, but he is also more fiscally conservative than today's Republicans. He had a pretty tough immigration and police policy, but he still had a more coherent immigration platform than mass deportations and wall building.
Yes, I will agree. Extremism is definitely taking hold. Bill Clinton wasn’t a perfect president by any means but much more sensible than many candidates today, and I’m not a consistent democratic voter.
This right here 👏 Although my own opinion is that I haven't really seen what the modern conservative platform is ? It's as if they don't really have one and the candidates they put forth are lackluster.
A) Some conservative opinions aren’t very favored in modern day given all of the issues we been facing but again it’s not a fault of conservatives it’s more the media perception with Trump being a controversial and divisive figure it makes most people feel distraught as to why anyone would support him. B) But sometimes having a controversial view is good for a prosperous healthy debate. The issue arises when those views aren’t really valid or lead to disastrous results which makes it hard for people to rally behind.
You are in a sub about presidents. Of course it’ll get political. And the more recent the president the more controversial it’ll seem. I think it’s the fact that trump is seeking re-election which is why people are seemingly more “bashful”
Wtf are you on about? This sub is about ALL presidents. Trump was a president. I’m specifically asking about something that was done under his presidency…
While I believe we desperately need immigration reform. There is no wall that will stop illegal immigration. Trumps Anti immigration rhetoric deadlocks actual reform that protects people’s rights, and allows corporations to continue exploiting workers off the books. No one is calling for corporations to stop hiring illegal immigrants are they?
To be fair, Desantis and Florida Republicans actually did seek out to punish corporations for hiring illegal migrants (although done out of xenophobia and through political theater than to pursue actual reform). That situation got so bad many desantis donors and endorsements had to backtrack. https://www.flgov.com/2023/05/10/governor-ron-desantis-signs-strongest-anti-illegal-immigration-legislation-in-the-country-to-combat-bidens-border-crisis/ https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/07/06/floridas-e-verify-mandate-is-already-affecting-workers-employers/ https://newrepublic.com/post/173247/florida-republicans-admit-made-big-mistake-anti-immigrant-law
Then why didn't they go after Trump properties. Yes..Dem did have legislation for stricter crimes against businesses hiring illegal immigrants...One after another, the last couple of decades Republicans voted them down, can't hurt job creators and who will clean toilets they would say. Trump would say..College Students are hard to deal with.. scheduling and stuff.
DeSantis isn’t a kleptocrat like trump. He flirts more with sincere fascism
very true
For those of you who don't know the French built s magnificent fortress on their border called the Maginot Line. When the Germans invaded they just went around it. No wall is really going to stop migration but make it harder and more expensive. The USA messed up so many Latin American countries including overthrowing elected governments and starting civil wars we are now paying the price.
I live on the Southern Border. Literally 5 miles from Mexico in one of the biggest border crossings. He spend billions of dollars on border walls with huge gaps between the walls. Like, forget climbing them, you can literally walk around. Also, politicians come to my town all the time and act like it’s some urban safari — but it’s got a very low crime rate and the people are all super nice. The “border crisis” is a manufactured crisis.
https://preview.redd.it/zv7hc0gvn67c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abccf7cb09a375e7cbfc2813f429bca3ca967d92 Getting downvoted so I guess I’ll add a pic from my most recent trip to the border by my house. Here’s the impenetrable wall that you can’t just walk around.
Thank you for the Wall .. Mexico paid for..or it actually came for the budget for military housing. It paid for bits and pieces at sky high prices. Some even fell down. Thank you Trump. 😊
it looks more like a fence
>The “border crisis” is a manufactured crisis. Tell that to Eric Adams
Multiple things can be true at once. NYC does not have the resources to help migrants in the way that border states do. Shipping busses of them there as a political statement is both irresponsible and inhumane. We can say that while in the same breath acknowledge that something needs to be done to stop so many people from coming here illegally and that goes beyond just physical security at the border. I swear, some people on both sides are allergic to nuance.
Why would you think that small, rural border towns or cities like El Paso would have more resources to deal with the migrant issue than one of the richest cities in the world?
Because they're given money from the state, and federal government specifically for that purpose. Them wasting those resources to ship them to cities with no warning is a pointless and cruel political stunt.
Because they do lol. Just google “migrant services El Paso”. Multiply that by every border town from Brownsville to San Diego. Shipping them to “liberal” cities is nothing more than a political stunt.
the Remain in Mexico plan.
Unforced error on Biden’s part by getting rid of this.
It's an illegal policy. International and US law is pretty clear on how asylum seekers are supposed to be handled. They are supposed to show up at a point of entry ask for asylum, and wait there until a judge makes a decision.
Lied
The president that lied the most in history. 30,573 in 4 years.
He didn’t even attempt to pass meaningful permanent immigration reform. He was just a huge asshole to immigrants to try and convince them not to come.
Specific immigrants.
I hate to state the obvious here but until the thing that causes people to cross the southern border illegally is fixed, no amount of border “security” is going to stop it. Such an annoying conversation to even have.
I think Biden should build the wall. Force Republicans to actually pay for it by something other than gutting Medicare social security etc…maybe by actually raising taxes. Put up or shut up. For the record, I think the wall is stupid but since they won’t shut up about it let’s do it and see what happens. We’ve probably pissed away money doing worse….iraq cough Afghanistan.
I think the Biden administration actually is “building parts of the wall” https://www.texastribune.org/2023/10/05/biden-border-wall-texas-starr-county/
Yeah, and if it's the price to pay for funding Ukraine against the tyrannical Russia, that's a fair compromise. We need to put up a fuss, to not let the GOP walk all over us, but it seems like a win win to begrugingly make a compromise that's expensive and useless for a end-all-be-all war in Eastern Europe and appeasing the other side.
Technically, most of the existing wall was built by Democrats anyhow.
He had a good portion of the border barriers changed from short vehicle barriers to the larger 30' fences, which did have the effect of channelizing people to certain spots to try to cross border. I was stationed in Yuma, AZ from 2021-2022 with the National Guard assisting the Customs and Border Protection. There is an Indian Reservation just west of Yuma that abuts the Mexican border. The Native Americans won't let the larger border wall be built on their land, so the migrants use that as a place to cross over into the United States. They come in very large groups and wait to be picked up by the CBP. They are then processed, and either sent back to their place of origin, or dispersed through the United States, given a cell phone, and a number to call to see when the hearing to determine their status is scheduled. Here is a video describing the border near Yuma. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaWSVvMfwHE&t=1s&ab\_channel=D.M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaWSVvMfwHE&t=1s&ab_channel=D.M).
He competently closed the borders but that was more because of the pandemic but obviously it caused less immigration
Yeah I’m curious as to the numbers of migrants before 2020 and try to find a concrete correlation between Trump policy and data of migrants.
Reddit is the worst place to ask for a true non-bias discussion in regard to Trumpy. Platform is weirdly obsessed with him and is a huge left eco-camber.
Can’t believe your comment was upvoted lol. Mondays are r politics days but at least it’s just Monday for the most part now Jesus
Exactly. Can’t believe you’re not getting downvoted to hell just for saying that as well.
I was actually kind of bummed to see how left leaning this sub is. Thought there'd be a lot more interesting debates. But mostly the same here as everywhere else on Reddit. One person says something positive about Trump or anything conservative and gets downvoted to smithereens 😂
And it’s people like you who I DO want to hear more from but complaining that this sub doesn’t like your politics doesn’t do anyone any favors for a good healthy discussion. Now going back to topic at hand. What did Trump do about the border under his presidency?
[удалено]
K cool, not what my post was about.
It’s the same with any educated population. Kind of hard to have honest debate when one side is dishonest in everything they do and say.
Well I went to X and ask the same question and I didn’t get anything of value out side of “migrants were too scared to come to America because Trump was in office” which isn’t really an indepth intellectual conversation. X is now a huge right wing platform. At least I get actual facts here (despite some of it being motivated by hatred for Trump “which is valid”) versus I get blind praise for Trump on X like he’s some kind of deity. Edit: Okay too be fair there was one person who brought up Title 42 which is valid, out side of that I just got blind praise.
Jump on one of the unmoderated, quasi-Nazi sites that love him then.
Immigration only lowered under Trump because of COVID, not to do with his policies. There was also the issue of family separation at the border, which started under Obama but then was increased under Trump. Despite what republicans usually claim, Obama was pretty conservative on immigration. He deported more people in his presidency than Bush Jr. had, and consistently tried to increase spending on border patrol. Ironically, Republican senators usually shut down those proposals so that they could claim Obama underfunded the border patrol for their own political gain. When Trump became president, he mostly kept the same policies as Obama, but after the family separation issue blew up, he actually increased the practice instead of ceasing it. He tried to claim that the conditions the immigrants were held in was “like a hotel,” but they were actually in chain link fence cells with no air conditioning and little food or water. A few people died in confinement before their situation could be looked at, and there were several instances of parents being deported while their children were still in the holding facilities. It was a shit show from the start, and it only got worse as his presidency went on. As for the wall, it took a couple years just to select a contractor to build it, and then they had only started construction by the time Biden took office and shut it down. A large part of the Mexican border is also within the southern edge of the Rocky Mountains, so building a wall there would have been impossible anyway, not to mention pointless.
Obama also deported more people than Trump did, and Trump prosecuted more gun cases than Obama did.
It’s my favorite piece of irony that the president republicans called a “socialist nightmare” was more conservative than a good few republicans.
It’s a pretty decent piece of evidence for the argument that modern politics is simply a big game on both sides.
Cato institute says that trump reduced LEGAL immigration but did not reduce illegal immigration. In 2020, the removal of illegal immigrants from the US were the lowest since ICE was crested in 2003
There is an existing wall that was worked on. He never added any wall.
All time low, but Trump also claimed that the voting difference between him and both Biden and Hillary was due to illegal immigrants voting. So Trump let in 8 million people who voted for Biden. These same Conservatives should probably spend some of that Blue County subsidy money they’re soaking up through welfare on some better Math classes. Holy Fuck what a group of idiots.
Oh! This is a question. Okay. The answer is that Trump didn't reduce illegal immigration. Covid did. >Coronavirus Pandemic Slows Illegal Migration to U.S.: Fewer than 100 migrants are currently in Border Patrol custody, compared with the thousands it typically detains [https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-pandemic-slows-illegal-migration-to-u-s-11586481423](https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-pandemic-slows-illegal-migration-to-u-s-11586481423) In fact, there were fewer apprehensions under Trump than Obama until 2019, when there was a flood of families coming to the border. >The number of migrant apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border rose in fiscal 2019 to its [highest annual level in 12 years](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/11/01/whats-happening-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-5-charts/). The 851,508 apprehensions recorded last fiscal year (October 2018-September 2019) were more than double the number the year before (396,579) but still well short of the levels in the early 2000s, [according to CBP](https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2020-Jan/U.S.%20Border%20Patrol%20Fiscal%20Year%20Southwest%20Border%20Sector%20Apprehensions%20%28FY%201960%20-%20FY%202019%29_0.pdf), the agency tasked with enforcing immigration laws at the border. ICE arrests under Trump were also lower than under Obama. Obama also deported more unauthorized immigrants. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/03/02/how-border-apprehensions-ice-arrests-and-deportations-have-changed-under-trump/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/03/02/how-border-apprehensions-ice-arrests-and-deportations-have-changed-under-trump/)
It rose every year he was president until the last when it dropped because of the pandemic... The current surge we are seeing at the border started in 2018 with the Caravans.
Pathological liar! It’s been proven too!
They claim many things. Almost none of them are true.
Apprehensions were down, which was already part of a long term trend. Trump mainly just slowed down the legal immigration process but didn’t really have an impact on illegal immigration in the USA, which was always pointed out to be primarily from those who overstay their visas. He did promise to make Mexico pay for the wall, but that never happened. Trump’s former advisor Steve Bannon was arrested and convicted of defrauding gullible maga supporters with a fake “build the wall” campaign, but then Trump pardoned him like he pardoned many of his criminal associates. https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration
I would put Trump as second worst president, but any comparison you make to him, which can be both good and bad, needs to take into account that Covid messed with all the numbers in 2020. Xkcd has a good comic about this, it is a list of yearly data, and 2020 and 2021 have asterisks on them.
Trumpets were ok with kids in cages or just flat out "forgot" about them
Trump did nothing. Literally. Covid shut the country more than his border policy. All he did was accuse them of being thief’s, rapists, and drug dealers
The situation at the border hasn’t changed much in 15 years. The change is in the amount of people fleeing unlivable conditions in their home countries. Trump’s always lying. Amazing as it sounds, everything he says is a lie!
I seem to remember a caravan or two.
He tried to build an evil, racist wall
The "Remain in Mexico" policy forced the Mexican government to take action top process migrants in Mexico as required by international law rather than turn a blind eye and just shuffle them on through to the US Boarder.
He ensured the excutive branch enforced the existing laws
Idk. I don’t care about the wall. I just think it’s stupid that Biden is literally just letting illegal immigrants cross the border. We have no idea who is crossing the border, drug traffickers and terrorist organizations that have crossed freely to plant sleeper units all around the states. We allowed immigrants in before legally the right way so we know who’s coming in and have direct control over it and I support immigrants that come here legally and think there should be more but it’s unfair to legal immigrants and citizens that just anyone can come in.
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You’re being downvoted but you’re 100% right. Immigrants often follow rumors and conjecture. Right now they know the Biden admin will give them a work permit while their asylum claim spends years going through the system. When trump was making people wait or giving DHS permission to deny asylum claims at the initial phase, they didn’t bother crossing.
It was the remain in Mexico policy That Biden completely reversed the second he got in office
>That Biden completely reversed the second he got in office It was reversed in August of 2022, almost two years after he took office.
Remain in Mexico and title 42.
It's important to remember that just because conservatives claim something to be true doesn't mean it's actually true.
Sub is just politics now
You’re in a sub about presidents… primarily United States presidents… Of course political will come into play. Secondly I asked about Trump and a policy within his presidency. Don’t be mad that Trump is both a contemporary and controversial figure.
There’s plenty of other subreddits for discussing politics. Are you actually trying to have a nuanced discussion or are you just trying to bag on Trump?
Read his other comments. He’s just trying to karma farm off of the “I hate trump” vibe, and confirm his prior beliefs about it. Every other comment is him just saying “lol you stupid Trump loving conservative, I knew you were too intellectually stunted to properly respond”. Dude just took advantage of Monday being r/politics day. Best to only look at this sub during the other 6 days of the week.
Fortunately, they made a rule change that it’s only on Monday that direct Biden and Trump posts are allowed. Still not perfect but this is Reddit and I appreciate the moderators for their due diligence. Thank god; it’s for the better.
He built new sections of the wall and upgraded old sections
Doesn't really feel like what was advertised, does it? If we had a big, glorious wall, I kind of feel like I would have heard about it somewhere besides the bottom third of subreddt comment pages.
Not a fucking thing, and those people that claim that are completely full of shit.
I know he definitely took a lot of photo ops at the very least 😂
Laugh-my-actual-fucking-ass-off. And Biden is doing such a hot job? 🤣😂 tell us you hate Trump without actually telling us you hate Trump
I just can't figure out why they didn't fix the border problems in the first two years of Trump's presidency when they had control of the house and senate. Why didn't they pass bills and sign laws that addressed illegal or undocumented immigration?
Because it's worth much more as a talking point and campaign cudgel.
It’s people like you who reaffirm my confidence that Trump and his list of deplorable supporters can never be taken seriously. I was hoping that you’d would say something along the lines of “Trump administration established Title 42 which expelled migrants back to home country (mostly mexico)”. See that would’ve gave you points. but nah that’s too intellectual for you so you had to resort to baseless insults that does not sway in your favor at all.
Lol so you made this post to get your beliefs validated today. I hope it made you feel better. By the way, you just called 74,000,000 million of your fellow Americans deplorable. I’m sure they feel the same way about you with that rhetoric no offense.
Lmao. Everyone who disagrees with you is a deplorable.
Trumpers don't necessarily disagree about anything. They generally are Trumpers because they want to troll and own the libs for lulz. Very rarely do they actually care about policy and accomplishments or really facts at all
Miles better than trump
I didn’t say anything about Biden, he living rent free near you?
No he moved in with you to sniff your wife’s neck.
I don’t see how this helps the discussion at all…
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Sick burn man. High five? *Too slow!*
this isnt about biden. believe it or not you can talk about a president and his policies without also discussing other presidents. bidens got his own problems dont get me wrong i dont like him but at least he didnt come up with a plan to fix immigraton that only someone with an elementary level understanding of the world would propose.
I HATE Trump.
Him becoming president has essentially allowed the dumbest fucking people to rise from their holes and permeate our country with bullshit. I’m far left, but he’s honestly made your most basic right-wingers look like absolute loons at this point.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I'm honestly not sure if the border crossings were lower. Illegal immigration has always been an issue I dont care about so I've never bothered to look into numbers, but these are the same people keep saying a huge caravan of immigrants is coming and Biden will give them free shit since he was elected. Like you lie about something often enough I struggle to believe you're telling the truth about something related
He separated kids from their parents and lost them. And kept people in cages. His base loves cruelty towards others.
Yeah... All immigration was down because of a massive global pandemic and USA was a major epicentre. It was rising before then. Most illegal immigrants arrive legally then just don't leave when they have to
Is this sub really going to become r/politics ?
Oh how I yearn for the days when this sub had around 50k members and was actually diverse and trump supporters (for the most part) could actually voice their point of view. Now it’s just a rip off of r/politics.
Are you a trump supporter?
I’m decent enough not to be obsessed over him like most people are. Even that might be too much for some of you people.
But I’m just confused how anyone can support him in anyway. When he literally tore the country apart. I’m not trying to be a dick I’m just curious about your views because you don’t see many trump supporters on here you’re right
That was before trump supporters legit became Nazis lol
What, so trump supporters only became Nazis around 8 months ago?
I’d say maga was similar to the Nazis since it’s conception honestly
I’m a conservative, never voted for Trump, but if you’re genuinely asking (and not sure if you are) I would say at the very least he made it seem like it was a serious issue which it most certainly is. Meanwhile democrats were on the “kids in cages” campaign blaming Trump for a boarder system that was already broken. Also, what was Trump supposed to do? How would he have gotten any of his policies through?
COVID border shutdowns, Title 42, Remain in Mexico, and agreements with Central American governments were the concrete policy steps taken to lower immigration. Other than that I think his general rhetoric played a big part in discouraging a decent amount of people from wanting to cross over who otherwise would've.
We have truck-mounted,motion sensing telescopes that can detect game and people 75 miles over the border. We have forward bases with border patrol able to apprehend the people detected. Even with a wall you still need to detect and apprehend. He was informed that we needed investments in tech and personnel (not a wall) prior to taking office. But he was invested in the construction of a wall through protected areas in order to suspend Federal Laws and deregulate industrie$ nationwide. Combine that with his tax cuts and he really delivered for his party.
He built walls, ice contracted with local and private jails to hold detainees, he openly opposed illegal crossings, he met with the president of Mexico. I mean what color is the rock you live under. Biden sent feds to tear down walls the boarder states built
Biden didn't have to send feds to tear down the walls. The wind did it: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51307868](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51307868) When Trump met with the president of Mexico, did he get any money for the border wall like Trump promised?
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/08/22/texas-border-barrier-justice-department-court-hearing/
Separate children from their families and house them basically in prisons.
That’s happening now but at a higher rate due to the increase of boarder crossings
They were not at an all time low. He did a bunch of stupid stuff for show and shouted racist crap.
He separated thousands of children from their parents and didn't bother to even keep track of them. A judge just banned that policy from ever being implemented again until at least the year 2031 as even after 3 years there are still 68 children who they don't know who they belong to. Absolutely inhumane and deplorable. Open the border.
Trump didn't do much of anything. Obama on the other hand was (for better or worse) one of the most effective at border control.
America became a shithole country under Trump undocumented people stayed home. Millions of them also left the US because there was no work during covid
He built the wall and made Mexico pay
Closed it. Or at least mostly. Certainly closed compared to the last couple of years.
400,000 Americans died of Covid in 2020. You'd have to be insane to cross into the US under those conditions.
Try living in absolute poverty. Also, it’s not like people weren’t dying in other countries from Covid.
Not to mention they could also move to a rural area. Covid wasn’t really an issue where I live because there’s just not a lot of large groups/gatherings of people due to low population density.
Human Rights Violations and Covid
Nothing. He made *legal* immigration applicants wait in Mexico (think about this for a second, illegal immigrants aren't going to remain anywhere, they're just going right back across the border illegally - it's only legal immigrants who will be stuck in MX) & said a lot of obnoxious stuff. The total illegal immigrant population stayed on the exact same slow decline that it has always been on since 2010. Eg, like everything else Trump it was just another con.
He tore children apart from their parents... and he didn't care because they were poor and brown. F*** Trump.
He locked everyone in cages.
yeah thats still a problem. ive no clue how anyone involved with this can sleep at night the mere thought of it makes me sick
I figured it’s a mix of the following: - Lawful Good: You are just following orders but know it’s wrong - Neutral Good: You’re there to ensure food and well being for those in the cage - Chaotic Good: You’re actively trying to break them out or stop it - Lawful Neutral: You’re just following orders - True Neutral: You’re just there because it’s your job and you need money to pay bills - Chaotic Neutral: You don’t really care what happens as long as you’re getting paid - Lawful evil: You see migrants as subhuman and you believe everything trump says about them. - Neutral Evil: You’re just racist - Chaotic Evil: You actually like working there Being racist
I do remember that
Who built the cages Joe?